Amber Guyger

[Scarlett]

I haven’t followed it much at all.  But I was surprised to hear they convicted her of murder.  I had not heard she was sexting her married partner. I think that must have played a big part in her being 1)charged with murder and 2) actually convicted.  

[Sneezyone]

She was charged because she violated department policy and killed a man in his own home. She was convicted because the jurors thought she committed the crime.

[LucyStoner]

I was so relieved to hear she was convicted. 

I thought it was CRAZY that her lawyer tried to argue castle doctrine when *she was in his castle*

She’s guilty of the crime she was convicted of.  You can’t walk into someone else’s house and shoot them and argue “fear” as a defense.  Take a minute to figure out where the frack you even are before shooting.  The prosecution laid out a lot of inconsistencies in her story.  

She has to have the worst situational awareness ever.  

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I wasn't sure what they were going to do either. But seriously. She walked into a guy's apartment and shot him cold. I get that she was mistaken, and that she was scared. But she could have backed out of the apartment. She could have gotten back into the hallway. She's didn't need to shoot the guy. What happened to Mr. Jean is horrible, and had they let her get away with it with no charges- that would be truly terrifying imo. He was IN HIS APARTMENT!!

Oh I agree she handled it wrong.  I am still surprised by the murder charge which implies intent I think.  It seems manslaughter or some other less serious charge would have been more appropriate.  And people keep saying ‘in his own home,!’  with yes is tragic...,but if she really thought she was in her apartment it was a big accident.  

I think when people carry guns they get weird about situations.  If I saw my apartment door ajar I would run and get help...not go on in.  

I think she was just a very unsympathetic defendant due to the sexting with a married man.  That she admitted full affair with apparently. 

[Janeway]

7 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

One of the things the defense used was the number of other residents who had mistakenly gone to other apartments. Apparently it was easy to do. However none of them managed to walk in and shoot someone. Whether it was manslaughter or murder I think is another question, and I'm not sure why they chose murder over manslaughter- I didn't hear enough to see what the different arguments were for each. 

My thing about this is, if she knew others had walked in to the wrong apartment, when she walked in and the furniture was different and the decor and everything, why did she grab for her gun rather than verify it was hers and some random guy had moved all her furniture and everything else out and his in while she was away. Are there not apartment numbers on the doors? I am glad she was convicted. I do not buy that she thought she was in her own apartment. I think it may even have been premeditated. Maybe.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Janeway

[Sneezyone]

Accidental deaths caused by a person are still homicides. The jury found that this homicide was intentional because she admitted on the stand that she shot him with the intention of killing him. This article further explains that her sexts were introduced to explain why she was so distracted as she walked up to the door, much like texting and driving.  She was unsympathetic for a variety of reasons including not rendering aid to the man she shot. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/02/amber-guyger-offensive-texts-botham-jean-murder/%3foutputType=amp

Edited October 2, 2019 by Sneezyone

[RootAnn]

I heard this morning that they were definitely trying to imply (if not prove) racism due to texts and maybe posts on social media?

[katilac]

 

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

 but if she really thought she was in her apartment it was a big accident.  

It was not a big accident. Even if she thought it was her apartment, she opened the door and saw him sitting on the sofa. All she had to do was walk away and call for backup. She is a trained police officer and she knows this. It doesn't matter if it actually was her apartment and he actually was an intruder, you can't give people the death penalty on the spot for breaking and entering. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

 

It was not a big accident. Even if she thought it was her apartment, she opened the door and saw him sitting on the sofa. All she had to do was walk away and call for backup. She is a trained police officer and she knows this. It doesn't matter if it actually was her apartment and he actually was an intruder, you can't give people the death penalty on the spot for breaking and entering. 

Well, true.   I Am still surprised at the murder charge.  Apparently the sentence could be as little as 5 years and as much as 99.....the court system just blows my mind.  

[LucyStoner]

Even leaving aside other factors, it seems to me that she has a fundamental obligation to ascertain *where she is* before reacting with lethal force.  I have twice walked in to my home to find people there I didn’t expect to see.  This happens sometimes in densely populated areas with apartments and identical townhouses and tract housing.  There are so many steps between WTF are you doing here and “I will now kill you”.  

I have a hard time thinking that step one on thinking she was finding a white woman in her apartment would have been “kill her”.

Edited October 2, 2019 by LucyStoner

[katilac]

2 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Are there not apartment numbers on the doors? 

There are illuminated numbers on each apartment, and the guy had a red welcome mat. 

1 minute ago, RootAnn said:

I heard this morning that they were definitely trying to imply (if not prove) racism due to texts and maybe posts on social media?

Yes, they implied both racism and an attitude of violence. 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

There are illuminated numbers on each apartment, and the guy had a red welcome mat. 

Yes, they implied both racism and an attitude of violence. 

Yep. They introduced her disciplinary record on the police force and her text messages for the jury to consider when rendering a sentence.

[katilac]

In some of the texts, she and the other officer (the one she was with) are complaining about working the MLK parade. He says, "Damn! I was at this area with five different black officers! Not racist but damn" and she replies, "not racist but just have a different way of working and it shows." 

On social media, she posted memes about shooting first. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I just saw that this morning. Her group texts and Pinterst posts came out for sentencing. I don't understand why they didn't come out in the trial. I guess it doesn't matter since they got the conviction, but I don't understand why they are just now bringing those out, since they are being allowed to show them. 

 Too prejudicial.

[katilac]

1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I just saw that this morning. Her group texts and Pinterst posts came out for sentencing. I don't understand why they didn't come out in the trial. I guess it doesn't matter since they got the conviction, but I don't understand why they are just now bringing those out, since they are being allowed to show them. 

There is often evidence that the judge won't allow in for purposes of conviction but will allow in the sentencing phase. They may have made the decision themselves in order to not give an inch for appeal (could have been seen as prejudicial and not directly related to the charge). 

[LucyStoner]

All I can think of is his poor family.  I’m glad they got this verdict but what a poor return for the loss of a son.  Nothing the justice system has to offer is enough for what they have lost.  

[Sneezyone]

She’s probably going away for a very, very long time. 

[LucyStoner]

9 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

She's going to appeal anyway, but I see what y'all are saying. 

 

Anything that makes it harder for her to prevail on appeal is good by me.  I don’t care how pro-police someone is.  If we don’t draw the line here- police officers who are trained in situational awareness go into someone else’s home while not on duty and kill them immediately- we truly can’t draw the line anywhere on this issue.  

During her testimony she sobbed that it wasn’t a hate thing.  Maybe accept that it’s not a random thing either lady.  There’s a reason some parents have more reason to fear this happening to their kids than other parents do.  There’s a reason I worry about this as it pertains to my two black nephews but not really at all with respect to my white sons.  

Edited October 2, 2019 by LucyStoner

[Valley Girl]

She also claimed that he was moving toward her and she feared for her life. If that's the case, she had plenty of opportunity to retreat, seek safety, and call for help. We are talking about a police officer (off-duty or not) who is trained to handle these specific situations, not your average citizen. The prosecution said forensic evidence showed the victim was getting up off his sofa or bending down when she shot him. It's unclear if she even attempted to render aid after shooting him. Apparently she had time to text her partner about it (if I read correctly). Everything is so wrong with this whole scenario. She didn't just make one "mistake." She made bad decision after bad decision. Again, she is trained in the use of her weapon and how to handle break-ins and other potentially dangerous encounters. She ignored it all. And an innocent man minding his own business in his own castle was killed. I'm not surprised she was found guilty of murder.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Valley Girl
ETA: As Lucy said above, even if you're generally pro-police (and I usually am), the line that was crossed here seems unambiguous.

[LucyStoner]

22 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Her texts are despicable...and so is she.   I’m glad she got convicted.   Didn’t she say that the apt door was ajar?  If that’s the case, wouldn’t the response be to call for back up and then enter the apt with other officers?   In that time, she would’ve realized it wasn’t even her apartment probably.  What she did doesn’t sound like normal police procedure.   

 

Yep.  If I lived alone and I came home to an open door, my first instinct, after trying to remember if I’d forgotten something like a maintenance appointment, would be to call the police and not enter the apartment.  In fact, I did call the police when I came home when I was 20 and my front door was unlocked and I could see through the kitchen that the back door was ajar.  

Edited October 2, 2019 by LucyStoner

[Valley Girl]

1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Had some guy accidentally gone into the wrong apartment- her apartment-and she was in there, and then she shot him, I think that could have arguably been a different situation. But this one has just been so crazy from the start. 

I honestly kept waiting to hear she was drunk. Because their apartments were set up quite differently- same floor plan, but that's about it. I still don't understand how you make that mistake starting with the floor mat. If you're texting youre looking down at your phone right? How did she not notice a blazing red doormat. 

If that had happened, I think you're right. Totally different ballgame. In the real situation, SHE was the intruder.

[catz]

So glad she was convicted.  I think justice has prevailed.  I hope she's away for a long time.  She took a life in cold blood.  

[Katy]

I was surprised she was convicted because it's rare to convict cops.  But it was the right thing.  Even if she HAD been in her apartment, a crazy guy who broke in and is watching TV and eating ice cream on your couch does not deserve to die. And even cops are taught to never pull a gun unless you've already ascertained that someone is going to die - you, an innocent person, or the criminal.

I doubt she'll live long in prison though.

[LucyStoner]

11 minutes ago, Katy said:

I was surprised she was convicted because it's rare to convict cops.  But it was the right thing.  Even if she HAD been in her apartment, a crazy guy who broke in and is watching TV and eating ice cream on your couch does not deserve to die. And even cops are taught to never pull a gun unless you've already ascertained that someone is going to die - you, an innocent person, or the criminal.

 

I think the big difference was that she wasn’t on duty.  This wasn’t an overzealous arrest or a situation where she was carrying out any police duties.  Also, while it shouldn’t matter, it probably didn’t help her case that the young man she shot, an accountant at PWC, was literally a choir boy with an unimpeachable record.  

Edited October 2, 2019 by LucyStoner

[Katy]

26 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

I think the big difference was that she wasn’t on duty.  This wasn’t an overzealous arrest or a situation where she was carrying out any police duties.  Also, while it shouldn’t matter, it probably didn’t help her case that the young man she shot, an accountant at PWC, was literally a choir boy with an unimpeachable record.  

 

Yeah, but the training to not pull a gun unless someone is going to die still holds.  I mean I guess I'm just guessing from a child of a Florida cop perspective, maybe Texas is totally different.  They definitely handle police involved shootings very differently.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Oh I agree she handled it wrong.  I am still surprised by the murder charge which implies intent I think.  It seems manslaughter or some other less serious charge would have been more appropriate.  And people keep saying ‘in his own home,!’  with yes is tragic...,but if she really thought she was in her apartment it was a big accident.  

I think when people carry guns they get weird about situations.  If I saw my apartment door ajar I would run and get help...not go on in.  

I think she was just a very unsympathetic defendant due to the sexting with a married man.  That she admitted full affair with apparently. 

FWIW legally "intent" can form in a moment just before the act.

There wasn't a great case for manslaughter.  She entered his home and had no valid reason to shoot him.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

46 minutes ago, Katy said:

I was surprised she was convicted because it's rare to convict cops.  But it was the right thing.  Even if she HAD been in her apartment, a crazy guy who broke in and is watching TV and eating ice cream on your couch does not deserve to die. And even cops are taught to never pull a gun unless you've already ascertained that someone is going to die - you, an innocent person, or the criminal.

I doubt she'll live long in prison though.

Off-duty cops get convicted fairly often.  Most only make the news briefly.

[LucyStoner]

18 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

On entering the wrong apartment though...once, after a really busy 24 hour shift, I stopped at the grocery store on the way home.  After finishing my shopping I got in my car and it wouldn’t start. I pressed the buttons, used the magnetic key, nothing. I burst into exhausted tears and called AAA for a tow.

It took 20 minutes for me to realize there were no car seats, my work radio and badge weren’t in the cup holders, and there was a briefcase that wasn’t mine on the front seat.

 

I totally see how it could happen to walk into the wrong apartment.  I’ve not walked into a different apartments but I have gone to the wrong car and stuff like that.  I once showed up at work 3 hours early because after my fitness boot camp class, I had gotten on the freeway southbound and just autopiloted my way to work , all the while wondering why there was so little traffic.  😳 I’ve walked into my home and found people I wasn’t expecting to see.  

I think people understand that mistakes happen, but the first mistake doesn’t mitigate the reactive and crappy decision making after that initial mistake.

 

 

 

 

 

[Corraleno]

3 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Also, she wasn't just sexting her married partner. She was sleeping with him at one point. I don't know all of the interworkings of criminal law and why that was admissible, when other things weren't. But I think if I were a juror it would go to show a level of disrespect for boundaries, and it would also definitely affect my opinion of her character. 

The reason the information that she was sexting her boyfriend right before the murder was allowed was because it contradicted her claim that she was so totally exhausted after working 14 hours that she was unable to perceive all the signs indicating she was on the wrong floor, in front of the wrong door (with a red doormat), and in the wrong apartment. The prosecution argued that the fact she was inviting her boyfriend to come to her apartment for sex indicated that she wasn't as exhausted as she claimed.

However, I think a lot of jurors probably felt the way you do, and I suspect that will be one of the grounds used in the appeal her lawyers will almost certainly file. 

As an aside, a lot of people were upset that the judge advised the jury that the Castle Doctrine would actually apply in this case if she genuinely believed she was in her own apartment, but I think it was smart to do that because it means she can't use it as grounds for appeal.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Corraleno

[LucyStoner]

56 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

To me the bigger question was between manslaughter and murder. 

 

It sounds like in order for it to have been manslaughter her actions would need to be reckless and lacking in intent to kill him.  In the trial the prosecution made a lot of her statement that when she shot him she was intending to kill him.  

Edited October 2, 2019 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

19 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The reason the information that she was sexting her boyfriend right before the murder was allowed was because it contradicted her claim that she was so totally exhausted after working 14 hours that she was unable to perceive all the signs indicating she was on the wrong floor, in front of the wrong door (with a red doormat), and in the wrong apartment. The prosecution argued that the fact she was inviting her boyfriend to come to her apartment for sex indicated that she wasn't as exhausted as she claimed.

However, I think a lot of jurors probably felt the way you do, and I suspect that will be one of the grounds used in the appeal her lawyers will almost certainly file. 

As an aside, a lot of people were upset that the judge advised the jury that the Castle Doctrine would actually apply in this case if she genuinely believed she was in her own apartment, but I think it was smart to do that because it means she can't use it as grounds for appeal.

Yes, this.  It just highlights that she was lying to cover herself.  Because she wasn’t planning to crash from exhaustion when she got home.  There were a lot of inconsistencies in her story.  She said he was coming at her, he apparently was not.  She said he failed to follow her orders but my her own admission she shot him in a matter of seconds.  She said he was sitting in the dark but his family said he didn’t sit in the dark to watch TV.  That struck me because I also don’t like to sit in the dark and will always turn on the lights in room or at minimum 1 lamp near where I am sitting.  After she had time to concoct a story, she said she was afraid he had a gun but during the 911 call she didn’t say that.  She said the door was ajar but the residents say the doors close automatically.  

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by LucyStoner

[easypeasy]

5 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Oh I agree she handled it wrong.  I am still surprised by the murder charge which implies intent I think.  It seems manslaughter or some other less serious charge would have been more appropriate.  And people keep saying ‘in his own home,!’  with yes is tragic...,but if she really thought she was in her apartment it was a big accident.  

I think when people carry guns they get weird about situations.  If I saw my apartment door ajar I would run and get help...not go on in.  

I think she was just a very unsympathetic defendant due to the sexting with a married man.  That she admitted full affair with apparently. 

 

I think she was an unsympathetic defendant because she walked into a man's house and shot him in cold blood. Period. Don't even care about her affair. Don't even care about her sexting. Don't care that she's a cop. Don't care that she's a racist. Don't care about her tweets or facebook posts. Don't care that she was tired.

All the information I'd need as a juror was that she walked into a man's house and just shot him. AND didn't administer first aid. AND called other people instead of assisting him in any way! 🤔 There's zero excuse for that in any stretch of my imagination.

I've accidentally walked into the wrong place before. I've accidentally gotten into the wrong car before when I was tired and texting-while-walking. Somehow managed to not shoot anyone.  If anyone's gonna get shot in that situation - it should be the person walking through the door! Not the resident! So, luckily, I've also managed to not be shot.

Relieved at this conviction. It was the only right decision. Heartbroken for his family - what a nightmare. 😞

Edited October 2, 2019 by easypeasy

[Scarlett]

I just heard the sentence is 10 years.

Thanks to all for details that I was lacking.  Like I said I had not followed it hardly at all.  

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

10 years? So I guess she could get out in what, 4? 

Don’t know.  You are our resident Texas expert.  Lol....

[SquirrellyMama]

7 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

10 years? So I guess she could get out in what, 4? 

That just isn't right. She was so, so reckless! No thought for a life. Her social media posts should be enough to keep her longer. They showed a lack of respect for life.

Kelly

[Scarlett]

Just now, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I am so no expert. I also feel like there is zero consistency here at all as to when you can get parole, how many years, and don't even get me started on who all they let out on bail even when they're already out for some other super serious crime. I know general speaking judges are good, but when you see these stories in the news sometimes, as far as parole or probation or bail, it's like they use a Magic 8 Ball. 

Like this POS who just killed a wonderful LEO and left behind a devastated family and community. I mean, look at this guy's history WHO would think it was a good idea to parole this guy?!? That's the sort of stuff I don't understand. Even the Houston Police Chief has been sounding off lately about how stupid some of these decisions are with some of these people out on bail for violent crimes and then go out and kill someone else. I know it's logistics etc., but really. Build more jails. Some people don't need to be out and about. 

Oh yeah, no consistency at all in the courts all across the land.  I was kinda thinking 10 years was a decent amount if time.  .but I see others saying it is not near enough.  

[gardenmom5]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

 

I haven’t followed it much at all.  But I was surprised to hear they convicted her of murder.  I had not heard she was sexting her married partner. I think that must have played a big part in her being 1)charged with murder and 2) actually convicted.  

she was also sexting him after she shot mr. jean, and didn't try to administer first aid or cpr.  

her married lover admitted deleting the texts.

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

she was also sexting him after she shot mr. jean, and didn't try to administer first aid or cpr.  

her married lover admitted deleting the texts.

OMG. 

[gardenmom5]

5 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I am so no expert. I also feel like there is zero consistency here at all as to when you can get parole, how many years, and don't even get me started on who all they let out on bail even when they're already out for some other super serious crime. I know general speaking judges are good, but when you see these stories in the news sometimes, as far as parole or probation or bail, it's like they use a Magic 8 Ball. 

Like this POS who just killed a wonderful LEO and left behind a devastated family and community. I mean, look at this guy's history WHO would think it was a good idea to parole this guy?!? That's the sort of stuff I don't understand. Even the Houston Police Chief has been sounding off lately about how stupid some of these decisions are with some of these people out on bail for violent crimes and then go out and kill someone else. I know it's logistics etc., but really. Build more jails. Some people don't need to be out and about. 

mike Huckabee loved to parden people....  I'm conservative and detest the man.  seattleites know him best for commuting Maurice clemmons 108 year prison sentence, allowing him back on the streets.  then he came to western Washington and decided to kill cops - for being cops.  he killed four while they were drinking coffee before starting their shift.  his would be fifth victim managed to shoot him first.

[Farrar]

She was also asking him to cover over after she shot him!? And not just in a "I'm freaked out, come over and help me" kinda way but specifically just continuing the "let's get it on" talk?!?

I don't like the way she snowed everyone. So many people I've talked to are like, she made a mistake, it's so sad for her, she's clearly so contrite. I'm not sure I buy it knowing she didn't administer aid. And, heck, knowing the above if it's true.

I'm glad she was convicted even if the sentence is too light.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, easypeasy said:

 

I think she was an unsympathetic defendant because she walked into a man's house and shot him in cold blood. Period. Don't even care about her affair. Don't even care about her sexting. Don't care that she's a cop. Don't care that she's a racist. Don't care about her tweets or facebook posts. Don't care that she was tired.

All the information I'd need as a juror was that she walked into a man's house and just shot him. AND didn't administer first aid. AND called other people instead of assisting him in any way! 🤔 There's zero excuse for that in any stretch of my imagination.

I've accidentally walked into the wrong place before. I've accidentally gotten into the wrong car before when I was tired and texting-while-walking. Somehow managed to not shoot anyone.  If anyone's gonna get shot in that situation - it should be the person walking through the door! Not the resident! So, luckily, I've also managed to not be shot.

Relieved at this conviction. It was the only right decision. Heartbroken for his family - what a nightmare. 😞

there have been cases where father's have shot pervs in the process of assaulting their children in their own homes - and administered first aid afterwards.  

she has ZERO excuse to not have at least made an attempt.

[LucyStoner]

4 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

mike Huckabee loved to parden people....  I'm conservative and detest the man.  seattleites know him best for commuting Maurice clemmons 108 year prison sentence, allowing him back on the streets.  then he came to western Washington and decided to kill cops - for being cops.  he killed four while they were drinking coffee before starting their shift.  his would be fifth victim managed to shoot him first.

 

Clemmons never should have been paroled.  That was such a disaster.  Those officer’s families, the girls (who were about 11) he sexually assaulted.  So many lives harmed by the decision to parole and then not pursue him when he violated his parole.  

[LucyStoner]

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

She was also asking him to cover over after she shot him!? And not just in a "I'm freaked out, come over and help me" kinda way but specifically just continuing the "let's get it on" talk?!?

I don't like the way she snowed everyone. So many people I've talked to are like, she made a mistake, it's so sad for her, she's clearly so contrite. I'm not sure I buy it knowing she didn't administer aid. And, heck, knowing the above if it's true.

I'm glad she was convicted even if the sentence is too light.

 

I don’t think she was still texting let’s get it on stuff after the shooting.  Her communications did seem to express more concern for her job than for the man she had just mortally wounded.  

I think a white female LEO is a sympathetic defendant in our culture.  A great many people were predisposed to believe her and her tears.  

[DoraBora]

nm

Edited October 3, 2019 by DoraBora

[gardenmom5]

7 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

Even leaving aside other factors, it seems to me that she has a fundamental obligation to ascertain *where she is* before reacting with lethal force.  I have twice walked in to my home to find people there I didn’t expect to see.  This happens sometimes in densely populated areas with apartments and identical townhouses and tract housing.  There are so many steps between WTF are you doing here and “I will now kill you”.  

I have a hard time thinking that step one on thinking she was finding a white woman in her apartment would have been “kill her”.

I guess she found that bowl of ice cream and a spoon being held by a man sitting down to be threatening.... (sarcasm!!!!)

rule of guns is:

point it at the ground.

only point it at things you plan to shoot.

only shoot things you plan to kill.

that said, she's gung-ho, and shouldn't have a gun. (of any kind.)

7 hours ago, katilac said:

In some of the texts, she and the other officer (the one she was with) are complaining about working the MLK parade. He says, "Damn! I was at this area with five different black officers! Not racist but damn" and she replies, "not racist but just have a different way of working and it shows." 

On social media, she posted memes about shooting first. 

I want to start out - I'm glad she was convicted.   

dh's niece is a sheriff's deputy.  she's tiny (solid, but tiny).  when she was doing her self-defense training, her trainer told her "you're little, so use your gun". jow: don't fight - you'll probably lose, so use the gun.  (she's pulled over people who admitted to carrying.  her response: don't show me yours and I won't show you mine.)

this woman should have just said "oops" and left and called for back-up.  with her lack of situational awareness (entering a strangers apartment), I think the dept that trained her needs to review their screening procedures for applicants.

I remember when this happened, and she was allowed to go home, she wasn't arrested, not even held.  it felt like they were just going to sweep it under the rug as an "unfortunate incident".  It felt like the only reason she was charged were a lot of white people - on both sides of the aisle -  were angry and wanted her charged.  I think it sent a message to tptb -  this case was way over the line, and there was absolutely no excuse for what she did.

 (I admit, I was ticked when mary kay letoureau only got 2 years for raping her 12 year old student.  then Hollywood made a movie about "how romantic it was" she and her 12 year old student were "in love".   at least attitudes are starting to change on that front.)

 

7 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

She’s probably going away for a very, very long time. 

not long enough.

[gardenmom5]

12 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

This actually surprises me. Admittedly because of my own bias/prejudice. The few female LEOs I have known IRL have been excessively authoritarian in day to day interactions (when they were not at work and say on a committee at a school or something ) and they seriously had some major chips on their shoulders that made most of those interactions unpleasant.  I tend to find them not sympathetic because of that. Admitted bias there. 

two months after I was assaulted - by a stranger - in my own home,, I heard someone outside.  the sound of someone running on gravel is unmistakable.  - especially when it started as I popped my head up to look out the window.  (it was dark.) because I heard what sounded like someone very carefully, and very slowly, trying to walk up a gravel driveway.

the female leo who led the response team, was a pos.  she was condescending and patronizing.  practically accused me of hearing things and making an unnecessary call to 911. she was quite rude.   the males who had responded, were much more sympathetic. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by gardenmom5
clarity

[LucyStoner]

29 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

I would like to see the reference that tells us she was sexting with her partner after shooting Mr. Jean.  I haven't seen that reported anywhere, though I may of course have missed it.  

In the recording of her 911 call, it is quite evident that she is completely freaked out by what she had done.  She is recorded as saying over and over that she thought it was her apartment.  The 911 operator told her to "stay with me" (on the phone), but obviously she should have put the phone down and done something to help Mr. Jean.  She is recorded speaking to him, saying "Hey bud.  Hey bud" and apologizing to him.  Her voice is shaky and she is crying.  She talks about how tired she is.

I'm not excusing her.  I agree that she should be held accountable for her egregious errors, but her actions were not as they are being portrayed here.

 

I don’t think she was sexting post shooting.  

She did text that “she was done” in reference to her correct conclusion that she would be losing her job.  On the transcript of the 911 call she distinctly says she’s going to lose her job right up towards the beginning of the call.  She calls him “bud”.  

3 minutes and 40 second before she called 911, she was on the phone with her partner making plans for that night.  So exhaustion doesn’t fly. And she’s not too tired to shoot him.  She got off the phone, walked to his apartment, failed to realize that it wasn’t hers, shoots him and then calls 911. Had she taken one second to call rather than pull a gun and shoot, he’d still be alive.  

She previously exchanged racist texts with other officers.  She was rejected by the Fort Worth PD before getting on in Dallas.  Her department tried to smear him over a small amount of marijuana in his apartment when she’d disclosed marijuana use on her police applications.   

I’m willing to bet that had she mistook my home for hers, she wouldn’t have shot me or my sons or even my husband. Nor would we have shot her or even brandished a bat at her.  Lady, this isn’t your apartment, a giggle, an apology and everyone would still be alive and kicking a year later.

 

 

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

She previously exchanged racist texts with other officers.  She was rejected by the Fort Worth PD before getting on in Dallas.   

 

 

my dd lives in fort worth.  they have a different model for their police dept, that actually allows them to do things differently than most large cities.

I'm glad she was turned down by ft. worth.

 

this just in:

there is video of mr. jean's brother hugging her afterwards (the sentence was rendered?) saying he forgives her.  he's a much bigger person than is she...  maybe the next ten years will inspire her to give up her racism. 

[Annie G]

36 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

I would like to see the reference that tells us she was sexting with her partner after shooting Mr. Jean.  I haven't seen that reported anywhere, though I may of course have missed it.  

 

I’ve read that during the 911 call she was also texting him to come over quickly and that she f’d up. Nothing about sexting. He admitted he deleted those texts because he didn’t save any texts that ‘weren’t important’. The texts were later recovered even though they’d been deleted. 

‘The prosecutor asked her if perhaps after the shooting she should have given jean her full attention and not been texting. She said yes she should have focused on him instead of texting her partner. 

 

 

[LucyStoner]

20 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

This actually surprises me. Admittedly because of my own bias/prejudice. The few female LEOs I have known IRL have been excessively authoritarian in day to day interactions (when they were not at work and say on a committee at a school or something ) and they seriously had some major chips on their shoulders that made most of those interactions unpleasant.  I tend to find them not sympathetic because of that. Admitted bias there. 

 

1. White privilege.  She gets to get up and cry about how this has negatively impacted her life.  What?  Your life is hard because you killed someone? What *should* your life be like after you kill someone?  

2. While I think our culture is way too likely to default to thinking self defense when a black man (or child!) is dead, I think we are also more likely to sympathize with a woman defending herself from a man she doesn’t know.  To the extent that if he’d unknowingly walked into her apartment after 14 hours of mind numbing audit work and she had shot him vs. figuring out why he was there, I’m not sure this would be a crime at all.