The swimsuit drama...

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/furore-over-teens-swimsuit-malfunction-disqualification/news-story/6fb8c79ab28596d196e1306712a0b31a

 

What?!!!

i must admit I did smile slightly when the first article I read was behind a paywall and I had to click show more to read it... it did seem kind of ironic given the story.

but in all seriousness seems like someone made an error of judgment here

 

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Ridiculous.  From my understanding of this article, an "appropriate" swimsuit bottom just rode up on the athlete.  Frankly, I can't even picture what the quote describes as being physically possible: "butt cheek touching butt cheek"- that is a MAJOR malfunction, I don't know of even the most racy swimsuits that don't cover the so-called intergluteal cleft!  Bad call.  She shouldn't be required to pause in the middle of winning a race in order to tug her swimsuit back into place.  I'm sure it was fixed at the end of the race, because no one intentionally walks around with a wedgie.  

Edited September 11, 2019 by Monica_in_Switzerland

[Corraleno]

And that article left out the worst part, which was detailed in a blog post by the swim coach:

This same girl was the subject of one rogue team parent’s photography project last season, in which they took graphic photos of her backside in her swimsuit — without her knowledge or consent — and circulated the images via email as evidence that her attire is immoral. She is a minor — that parent should be arrested for possession and distribution of child pornography.

🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬

[Ausmumof3]

42 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Ugh.  This was a bad call, and yeah, the modesty rules either need modification or there needs to be standardization on specific brands at the high school level.  

Apparently it was a standard issue swimsuit for the school - just more revealing because she was curvier.

[Ausmumof3]

12 minutes ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

Ridiculous.  From my understanding of this article, an "appropriate" swimsuit bottom just rode up on the athlete.  Frankly, I can't even picture what the quote describes as being physically possible: "butt cheek touching butt cheek"- that is a MAJOR malfunction, I don't know of even the most racy swimsuits that don't cover the so-called intergluteal cleft!  Bad call.  She shouldn't be required to pause in the middle of winning a race in order to tug her swimsuit back into place.  I'm sure it was fixed at the end of the race, because no one intentionally walks around with a wedgie.  

Yeah I was having trouble figuring out how that was even possible 😬

 

[Tanaqui]

It "seems like" somebody made a bad call? Seems like you just made a little understatement.

[hshibley]

5 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Ugh.  This was a bad call, and yeah, the modesty rules either need modification or there needs to be standardization on specific brands at the high school level.  

That brand and style was approved by the state high school athletic association. 

She swam the race observed by one judge. That judge had to leave she was disqualified the judge who took over after the initial judge left. 

She and her sister (both swim) have had issues with the same judge at a different swim meet. 

[unsinkable]

It sounds like the rule should just be eliminated. Bc the judges can't win. If they enforce the rule, they are criticized by some and if they don't enforce it, they are criticized by others.

It sounds like the suit simply disappeared into the swimmer's bum, like a thong, if butt cheek was touching butt cheek, like the article said. 

[MysteryJen]

The whole thing was appalling and it has been resolved now. But the highlights (lowlights) are:

1. the completely inappropriate picture and complaint- definitely a violation of Safe Sport regarding the swimmer.

2. The basic misunderstanding of how suits fit on different bodies. 

Girls with derrieres that are muscular from years of squats, swimming and turns have trouble finding suits that stay pulled down. Girls that have small chests need a smaller size suit so that water doesn't pool in the top and pull away- resulting in both drag and inadvertent flashing of the girls. Girls with large chests need more support- so a smaller size acts to compress and support.

The whole thing was so irritating and so, so unnecessary.

[LisaKinVA]

7 hours ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

Ridiculous.  From my understanding of this article, an "appropriate" swimsuit bottom just rode up on the athlete.  Frankly, I can't even picture what the quote describes as being physically possible: "butt cheek touching butt cheek"- that is a MAJOR malfunction, I don't know of even the most racy swimsuits that don't cover the so-called intergluteal cleft!  Bad call.  She shouldn't be required to pause in the middle of winning a race in order to tug her swimsuit back into place.  I'm sure it was fixed at the end of the race, because no one intentionally walks around with a wedgie.  

Unfortunately, the intentional hiking of suits up to create a wedgie has become more and more of a thing.  Girls ask each other in the locker rooms if it's "high enough."  If coaches don't tell swimmers to "fix their suit" we get reamed, if we tell swimmers to "fix their suit" we're perverts.  The new training has also created more issues, as we have 18yo athletes exposing their bare bums to 17 & U, violating rules.  

IMO, team suits should be available in different cuts/styles to suit multiple body types.  Wear the one that fits YOU (and yes, I took heat for allowing an 11yo to wear a 2 piece training suit to practice, because she was growing so rapidly, she was needing new suits every couple of weeks -- she went from 5'-5'9 in 9 months -- I couldn't do anything about the racing one-piece rules).  Jolyn suits should probably be banned (HA! it's all THEIR fault...jk).  We just ordered my girls' new team suits... one of them is titled "girls skimpy suit"  very open back, high cut legs (imo, this suit is not suitable for curvy girls, ponygirl would die if I bought her that!  Blondie wouldn't bat an eye.  But at least there are 3 female suit options).  

[MysteryJen]

It would appear that girls can't win. If a suit is going to ride up as you swim, constantly pulling it down out of the water is irritating as heck. And yes, some girls pull it up, but lots don't start out that way.

Jolyn tieback suits were the best solution for the large breasted girls on our team, but they are banned from competition. The Jolyn bikini bottoms my girls used were the best fitting of all the suits- but that doesnt translate into the one piece suits.

There is no way high schools are going to offer 3 different team suits and honestly most of them don't fit well. They will offer one and everyone still has to pony up for a competition suit for the big meets, not cheap.

Don't even get me started on the unworkability of training rules regarding 18 yo hs senior swimmers.

 

[unsinkable]

Well, if the girls can't win, and the coaches can't win, and the officials can't win...

Why not get rid of the rule?

[MysteryJen]

Why not indeed?

[unsinkable]

1 minute ago, MysteryJen said:

Why not indeed?

I am literally asking.

Why is the rule needed? What purpose does it serve?

[hshibley]

In my state for high school athletics all team members have to wear the exact same uniforms so you can’t offer different cuts to choose from. 

[MysteryJen]

14 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I am literally asking.

Why is the rule needed? What purpose does it serve?

Modesty rules.

 

[gardenmom5]

I read a lot of comments from competitive swimmers who said swimsuits riding up is common.  they do wear them tighter during a meet because it reduces drag.

I think this is ridiculous.

[frogger]

3 hours ago, LisaK in VA said:

Unfortunately, the intentional hiking of suits up to create a wedgie has become more and more of a thing.  Girls ask each other in the locker rooms if it's "high enough."  If coaches don't tell swimmers to "fix their suit" we get reamed, if we tell swimmers to "fix their suit" we're perverts.  The new training has also created more issues, as we have 18yo athletes exposing their bare bums to 17 & U, violating rules.  

IMO, team suits should be available in different cuts/styles to suit multiple body types.  Wear the one that fits YOU (and yes, I took heat for allowing an 11yo to wear a 2 piece training suit to practice, because she was growing so rapidly, she was needing new suits every couple of weeks -- she went from 5'-5'9 in 9 months -- I couldn't do anything about the racing one-piece rules).  Jolyn suits should probably be banned (HA! it's all THEIR fault...jk).  We just ordered my girls' new team suits... one of them is titled "girls skimpy suit"  very open back, high cut legs (imo, this suit is not suitable for curvy girls, ponygirl would die if I bought her that!  Blondie wouldn't bat an eye.  But at least there are 3 female suit options).  

 

Basically, in order for someone to see butt cheek actually touching butt cheek it has to be in thong position entirily not just showing the side Or even most of the cheek which is very common.

 

As someone who has a very curvy daughter I would be livid if my daughter was issued and required to wear such a suit. My daughter would hate it. 

I guess you could take out the rule and allow for thong like suits but in this case the ref. is in trouble for enforcing the rule on the books. 

 

I agree with getting rid of the rule. You can't ask a judge to enforce rules and then get mad at them for enforcing it.

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by frogger
Grammar oos

[Farrar]

If the reason for the rule was to prevent girls from hiking up their suits to show off their bodies, I refuse to believe that focusing on their bodies by making a ton of rules is somehow going to stop them from trying to show them off. How about just everyone pay less attention. Minimize the rules. Allow for suits that make sense.

And, for goodness sake - punish parents or competitors who circulate images of kids without permission.

[DesertBlossom]

I can understand an unintentional wedgie, which this sounds like it was. Sometimes you can't help that.

But I will say that I have seen competitive swim suits that were pretty shocking. A few years ago there was a swim coach for my kids' summer city swim team whose suit literally only covered half of each cheek. She was curvy and it may have a specific suit required by the city, but it looked uncomfortable and well.... inappropriate. But it's none of my nevermind....

[livetoread]

I realize I am ignorant about suits and aerodynamics, but it seems to me Olympic swimmers, both male and female, now often compete with suits that cover more, not less, especially on the lower half. I would think it would be more comfortable to have a bicycle short sort of thing rather than something always riding up like women’s bathing suits do. 

[MysteryJen]

Competition tech suits run from $350 to $600. No one is wearing those at a high school meet. 

 

[MysteryJen]

Maybe for State- but a regular season meet? Team suits or practice suits.

 

[Katy]

I don't understand how they get away with modesty rules in a sport that involves a uniform anyway.  Harassing a girl because her body type is more exposed in a uniform than those with different body types would be considered sexual harassment in at least one of the states I've lived in.  And there's no way I wouldn't threaten legal action if this was one of my children, if only to force a rule change.  It's ridiculous.

But I'm also one of those people who thought it was ridiculous that some of the uniforms for girls sports teams didn't fit the dress code for my high school.  Make sure your shorts are no more than 4" above your knee cap so we don't create a distraction in the learning environment, unless you're in cheer leading, volleyball, track, or soccer, in which case your thigh-baring uniform IS acceptable and is required to be worn in class on game days.  🤷‍♂️

[hshibley]

4 hours ago, Farrar said:

If the reason for the rule was to prevent girls from hiking up their suits to show off their bodies, I refuse to believe that focusing on their bodies by making a ton of rules is somehow going to stop them from trying to show them off. How about just everyone pay less attention. Minimize the rules. Allow for suits that make sense.

And, for goodness sake - punish parents or competitors who circulate images of kids without permission.

The reason is to shame girls and take away from their accomplishments. Let the girl swim, let the girls participate in sports, let girls go to class and excel without constantly having to harp on what they wear. Honestly as a mother of 5 girls dress code drive me crazy.  

[ktgrok]

So, if she had no choice in the bathing suit, they are not claiming she wore something indecent. which means they are accusing her of either being too curvy or of purposely pulling it up into her butt crack to show off her rear end. Neither seems very nice. 

[LisaKinVA]

I spent all summer with a young coach (18) who hiked her suit up to her butt crack, and walked around the deck in that manner (she was not in and out of the water -- she was coaching on the pool deck with a hiked-up suit).  If she attempted to do that this season, she would be in violation of safe sport rules -- rules she would have to sign and agree to in order to participate in the sport with anyone under the age of 18.  

As a coach -- we are supposed to be protecting our swimmers from both known and unknown dangers.  

Girls who are hiking up their suits to "get attention" and the parents who support, ignore, or otherwise blow off this behavior can't have it both ways.  You can't simultaneously not care about them seeking attention for their bodies and also be upset when they receive the attention they are seeking from people they don't want it from.  Sure, she may be trying to attract the attention of the 18yo hot guy on the team, but complaining that the 18yo pimply-faced, string-bean, lifeguard said something instead is a double standard on the part of the girl.  The attention you are seeking does not suddenly become "bad" because it is not coming from the person(s) you are trying to attract.  Either the attention is wrong, or it's okay.  And this has nothing to do with modesty culture.  I don't like that term.  I think "modesty" is thrown around in ways it was never meant to be -- as certain girls could dress in a sack from neck to ankle and be immodest.  However, we should be teaching our children to dress appropriately for the situation --- and if they are running to fashions that are not appropriate, it is time to dig deeper and explore the why behind the desire.  We need to teach our girls to be honest with themselves about why they are doing something -- it's also part of teaching them how to be an individual and figure out what they like and why they like it.  It's no different than my telling my girly-13-yo that she couldn't shave half her head (one of her friends did, and she wanted to -- basically, it came down to this -- if you can explain to me WHY you want to shave half your head, I'm open to talk about it -- but if you are only want to shave half your head because so-and-so did, my answer is no.

Now, I will say that manufacturers bear some responsibility -- as a team, we ordered suits from Finis, and the mens' suit was cut WAY too low -- the boys even complained.  We complained to Finis as well (to no avail).  As for knee-skin style suits and jammers -- these are available year round -- what supposedly makes the tech suits more expensive is the type of fabric and the water resistant treatment.  They do make knee-length suits (usually for old people, like me).  And, yes, the fact is, they COULD make less expensive knee-length competition suits.  Yingfa does (around $70 -- and this is a tech suit, small modifications could be made so that it is within the rules of not being a tech suit), others could too.  Additionally, there are custom suit manufacturers (Agon, for example) that have several different styles of suits that can all be manufactured in the same design.  These suits are no more expensive than the in-season competition suits from Speedo (about $59 for a women's suit).  There are other choices out there.

[MysteryJen]

Lisa, I have had discussion with my girls over this very thing in the last few years. I will say, I think girls are significantly less receptive to the idea that they have to police what they wear to avoid unwanted attention. In part because they get unwanted attention lots of places, not just at the pool, but wearing sweats and an oversized T shirt at Starbucks. They don't buy that guys are being creepers or inappropriate because of what they wear. It is because guys are being inappropriate. And the worst offenders are grown men who should know better than to hit on a girl young enough to be their daughter. And I see that girls in general are rejecting the argument that they are responsible for other people's behavior.

I don't like the suit hiked up and I don't like when girls do that intentionally. But I know that if you are a small breasted girl with a sizeable rear, that suit is going to ride up in the water and also just walking around the pool deck. 

This story has elements of targeted officiating (a fast girl who had already competed in three races that day), racism (she is mixed race), and sexism (modesty rules). No wonder it went viral.

[sassenach]

ITA with everyone, she should not have been disqualified.  

But have you guys been around hs swim lately? A lot of the girls really are pulling the suit up into their cheeks intentionally. I see more butt cheeks after our hs swim practice than I did on the beach in Cancun. 

I don’t like it and, as a swimmer, I don’t think it’s necessary. This goes into the same category for me as girls with shorts so short that their cheeks hang out of the bottom. Are we allowed to draw the line anywhere?

 

[MysteryJen]

What line are you going to draw and what is the motivation behind it?

Water polo suits are tighter and ride up even higher. What line there?

People already don't like two piece suits for training, even though they frequently fit better and are more comfortable. But lots of coaches ban those. 

I am very uncomfortable with the constant policing of womens bodies because I don't think that the motivation behind it is to help women be more comfortable and empowered in their bodies. 

[hshibley]

1 hour ago, LisaK in VA said:

I spent all summer with a young coach (18) who hiked her suit up to her butt crack, and walked around the deck in that manner (she was not in and out of the water -- she was coaching on the pool deck with a hiked-up suit).  If she attempted to do that this season, she would be in violation of safe sport rules -- rules she would have to sign and agree to in order to participate in the sport with anyone under the age of 18.  

As a coach -- we are supposed to be protecting our swimmers from both known and unknown dangers.  

 

The clubs here generally only hire post college age people for coaches. I think that helps with coaches not seeing themselves as one of the “kids”. But if this is the case with your club your board needs to a talk to her about the rule violation and see it corrected or b fire her.  Your club parents can complain as well and they can take  their money and kid different club. (Though having my kids play club sports there are plenty of parent who could care less if she’s getting results. ) A coach is an employee and is different from a team member wearing a team issued suit. 

[hshibley]

14 minutes ago, MysteryJen said:

I am very uncomfortable with the constant policing of womens bodies because I don't think that the motivation behind it is to help women be more comfortable and empowered in their bodies. 

I agree. I’ve had multiple kids run xc. One high school allowed boys and girls to run shirtless if desired. One allowed no one to run shirtless. 1 dd ran with a local home school club in middle school where we got constant emails about the girls not being allowed to wear running tank tops to practice. Boys on the team were allowed to wear tanks or run shirtless 🙄.  It’s not protecting girls it’s harassing them. Take away from their achievements and make them responsible for the behavior of others when they are doing nothing wrong. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by hshibley
Grammar

[LisaKinVA]

46 minutes ago, MysteryJen said:

Lisa, I have had discussion with my girls over this very thing in the last few years. I will say, I think girls are significantly less receptive to the idea that they have to police what they wear to avoid unwanted attention. In part because they get unwanted attention lots of places, not just at the pool, but wearing sweats and an oversized T shirt at Starbucks. They don't buy that guys are being creepers or inappropriate because of what they wear. It is because guys are being inappropriate. And the worst offenders are grown men who should know better than to hit on a girl young enough to be their daughter. And I see that girls in general are rejecting the argument that they are responsible for other people's behavior.

I don't like the suit hiked up and I don't like when girls do that intentionally. But I know that if you are a small breasted girl with a sizeable rear, that suit is going to ride up in the water and also just walking around the pool deck. 

This story has elements of targeted officiating (a fast girl who had already competed in three races that day), racism (she is mixed race), and sexism (modesty rules). No wonder it went viral.

Some men are dawgs... no way around it.  They haven't been taught -- and that's a failing that needs to be addressed, or they simply are dirty old men who don't care about polite society (:shudder:).   At the beginning of swim season, (when I was the head coach), I'd hold a parent meeting.  I told ALL parents to check their kids' suits.  Suits wear out in different ways -- loose fitting suits may be more comfortable OUT of the water, but what goes up, will also pull down with the weight of water (If you can pull a girl's suit straps up to the top of her head, the top of the suit can also stretch down).  Similarly, boys' suits often first show wear in the butt crack.  When the suit is on and dry it may look fine -- ask the boy to bend over into a dive position and suddenly you can see *everything.*

Suit problems are suit problems.  Ponygirl is small chested, larger hips and rear.  It is so hard finding a suit that fits -- but we know there are some styles that are just really bad, so we avoid them.  She also hates wedgies and fixes them.  She wears shorts around the pool deck, because she's more comfortable in them.  At major competitions, she brings a sweatshirt, and goes topless underneath (pulls her tech suit down half-way).   I don't get upset about suit problems.  They are part and parcel for the course (unfortunately). 

The story from AK was disturbing on many levels (the swim wedgie doesn't bug me -- you can tell the difference between a fit issue and someone intentionally hiking their suit).  The photographing, and targeting was awful.

[LisaKinVA]

20 minutes ago, hshibley said:

The clubs here generally only hire post college age people for coaches. I think that helps with coaches not seeing themselves as one of the “kids”. But if this is the case with your club your board needs to a talk to her about the rule violation and see it corrected or b fire her.  Your club parents can complain as well and they can take  their money and kid different club. (Though having my kids play club sports there are plenty of parent who could care less if she’s getting results. ) A coach is an employee and is different from a team member wearing a team issued suit. 

It was summer rec league, they usually hire high school assistant coaches.  I currently coach on deck with college swimmers (assisting me).  All of our lead coaches or above are all post-grads or mature adults with lots of grey  hair...

[LisaKinVA]

14 minutes ago, hshibley said:

I agree. I’ve had multiple kids run xc. One high school allowed boys and girls to run shirtless if desired. One allowed no one to run shirtless. 1 dd ran with a local home school club in middle school where got constant emails about the girls not being allowed to wear running tank tops to practice. Boys on the team were allowed to wear tanks or run shirtless 🙄.  It’s not protecting girls it’s harassing them. Take away from their achievements and make them responsible for the behavior of others when they are doing nothing wrong. 

This would rub me the wrong way.  One standard.  Tank tops are fine for boys, they are fine for girls.  

[DesertBlossom]

20 minutes ago, MysteryJen said:

What line are you going to draw and what is the motivation behind it?

Water polo suits are tighter and ride up even higher. What line there?

People already don't like two piece suits for training, even though they frequently fit better and are more comfortable. But lots of coaches ban those. 

I am very uncomfortable with the constant policing of womens bodies because I don't think that the motivation behind it is to help women be more comfortable and empowered in their bodies. 

I don't know if 2 piece competitive swimsuits are actually a thing, but I know diving into the water with a regular 2 piece will likely result in losing one's drawers. 

I think it's okay to draw a line for competitive swimsuits for the same reason I am teaching my 3 year old exhibitionist that he needs to wear clothes, especially when guests are over. There are parts of our bodies that are sacred and private and hanging our butt cheeks out of our swim suits doesn't make anyone swim faster.

[LisaKinVA]

25 minutes ago, MysteryJen said:

What line are you going to draw and what is the motivation behind it?

Water polo suits are tighter and ride up even higher. What line there?

People already don't like two piece suits for training, even though they frequently fit better and are more comfortable. But lots of coaches ban those. 

I am very uncomfortable with the constant policing of womens bodies because I don't think that the motivation behind it is to help women be more comfortable and empowered in their bodies. 

 

Well, USAS now has a bevy of rues we're supposed to enforce with differing age athletes (it's actually using things created nationwide across multiple sports).  I foresee many headaches (I'm actually grateful to be primarily coaching 12U, (although, I will be petitioning to help on deck with the 14O, since I'm there anyway).

I don't police my girls bodies -- but we do talk about dressing appropriately for what you intend to be doing.  Often times, some girls don't think about potential for malfunctions that the vast majority would be embarrassed by (some don't care -- nothing I can do about that).  But how we act and dress is part of nonverbal communication.  We tell people a lot about ourselves through our manner and clothing.  We should be conscious of that fact.  For example, right now I'm clearly communicating by my dress that I am not going anywhere and would prefer to be in bed... but instead I'm preparing for my class tomorrow morning that somehow sneaked up on me.  I will change into my coaching garb later.  But for now, I'm homebound mom 😄

I am very uncomfortable with clothing standards that aren't somewhat uniform in application.  If a man's butt crack isn't supposed to be viewed, neither should a woman's.  If a man's junk shouldn't be visible when in a dive position, a woman's should not be exposed either. If a suit is sized down so small that the shoulder strap is acting like a pasty -- there is a problem with the suit sizing -- which should be addressed with the coach (I'm not sure how that helps anyone's performance...makes my shoulders hurt from seeing it).  

But the answer is certainly not a whatever-whenever attitude.  

 

[LisaKinVA]

38 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

I don't know if 2 piece competitive swimsuits are actually a thing, but I know diving into the water with a regular 2 piece will likely result in losing one's drawers. 

I think it's okay to draw a line for competitive swimsuits for the same reason I am teaching my 3 year old exhibitionist that he needs to wear clothes, especially when guests are over. There are parts of our bodies that are sacred and private and hanging our butt cheeks out of our swim suits doesn't make anyone swim faster.

They do make training 2-pieces.  The tops are built more like sports bras, the bottoms usually have a tie to help keep them tight.  I have never seen anyone compete in them, only train.  For the most part, one pieces work fine for training.  But, I don't disallow 2 pieces (at least not in the pools I have run).  I did provide examples to the parent(s) who were interested of acceptable 2-piece suits (their daughter was growing really fast... 9 inches in one year...couldn't keep her in a one piece).

 

[ktgrok]

4 hours ago, LisaK in VA said:

I spent all summer with a young coach (18) who hiked her suit up to her butt crack, and walked around the deck in that manner (she was not in and out of the water -- she was coaching on the pool deck with a hiked-up suit).  If she attempted to do that this season, she would be in violation of safe sport rules -- rules she would have to sign and agree to in order to participate in the sport with anyone under the age of 18.  

As a coach -- we are supposed to be protecting our swimmers from both known and unknown dangers.  

Girls who are hiking up their suits to "get attention" and the parents who support, ignore, or otherwise blow off this behavior can't have it both ways.  You can't simultaneously not care about them seeking attention for their bodies and also be upset when they receive the attention they are seeking from people they don't want it from.  Sure, she may be trying to attract the attention of the 18yo hot guy on the team, but complaining that the 18yo pimply-faced, string-bean, lifeguard said something instead is a double standard on the part of the girl.  The attention you are seeking does not suddenly become "bad" because it is not coming from the person(s) you are trying to attract.  Either the attention is wrong, or it's okay.  And this has nothing to do with modesty culture.  I don't like that term.  I think "modesty" is thrown around in ways it was never meant to be -- as certain girls could dress in a sack from neck to ankle and be immodest.  However, we should be teaching our children to dress appropriately for the situation --- and if they are running to fashions that are not appropriate, it is time to dig deeper and explore the why behind the desire.  We need to teach our girls to be honest with themselves about why they are doing something -- it's also part of teaching them how to be an individual and figure out what they like and why they like it.  It's no different than my telling my girly-13-yo that she couldn't shave half her head (one of her friends did, and she wanted to -- basically, it came down to this -- if you can explain to me WHY you want to shave half your head, I'm open to talk about it -- but if you are only want to shave half your head because so-and-so did, my answer is no.

Now, I will say that manufacturers bear some responsibility -- as a team, we ordered suits from Finis, and the mens' suit was cut WAY too low -- the boys even complained.  We complained to Finis as well (to no avail).  As for knee-skin style suits and jammers -- these are available year round -- what supposedly makes the tech suits more expensive is the type of fabric and the water resistant treatment.  They do make knee-length suits (usually for old people, like me).  And, yes, the fact is, they COULD make less expensive knee-length competition suits.  Yingfa does (around $70 -- and this is a tech suit, small modifications could be made so that it is within the rules of not being a tech suit), others could too.  Additionally, there are custom suit manufacturers (Agon, for example) that have several different styles of suits that can all be manufactured in the same design.  These suits are no more expensive than the in-season competition suits from Speedo (about $59 for a women's suit).  There are other choices out there.

I'm not saying that hiking up the suit is okay, I'm saying it seems wrong to accuse the girl of that and take away her win without knowing without a doubt that she did, in fact, do that. Which they really can't know, unless they saw her do it. If they saw that, I'm sure it would be mentioned. 

Assuming positive intent, not penalizing them for what may be just biology without proof, etc. 

[Sneezyone]

17 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

I can understand an unintentional wedgie, which this sounds like it was. Sometimes you can't help that.

But I will say that I have seen competitive swim suits that were pretty shocking. A few years ago there was a swim coach for my kids' summer city swim team whose suit literally only covered half of each cheek. She was curvy and it may have a specific suit required by the city, but it looked uncomfortable and well.... inappropriate. But it's none of my nevermind....

What you and Lisa described are ADULT coaches on the pool deck in 'indecorous' suits, HS student athletes.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Sneezyone

[LisaKinVA]

30 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm not saying that hiking up the suit is okay, I'm saying it seems wrong to accuse the girl of that and take away her win without knowing without a doubt that she did, in fact, do that. Which they really can't know, unless they saw her do it. If they saw that, I'm sure it would be mentioned. 

Assuming positive intent, not penalizing them for what may be just biology without proof, etc. 

Absolutely -- it is wrong.  In the case (as described and adjudicated), the official in this scenario was blatantly wrong.  Moreover, the official didn't follow proper procedure, either (no one seems to know if the offense took place prior to the event (in which case, the coach should have been notified and the girl given a chance to correct it), during the event (umm... yeah, that's a suit malfuction, not intention, so outside the scope of the rule) or after the event (in which case, it's the same result as prior to the event).  In no way, shape or form should the girl in the article have been DQd for it.  

[LisaKinVA]

16 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

What you and Lisa described are ADULT coaches on the pool deck in 'indecorous' suits, HS student athletes.

Actually, the girl I'm describing was a high school student (also an assistant coach, who happened to be 18 at the time).  

[DesertBlossom]

25 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

What you and Lisa described are ADULT coaches on the pool deck in 'indecorous' suits, HS student athletes.

Actually, the swim coaches for my kids during the summer are teens. I don't know how that's relevant though. 

Sometimes the swimsuit wedgies are because athletes size down significantly so that it reduces drag. But sometimes it's the cut of the swimsuit itself. I have a niece who is a very competitive swimmer and my SIL remarked that at least this year's team suit covered their bottoms. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, LisaK in VA said:

Actually, the girl I'm describing was a high school student (also an assistant coach, who happened to be 18 at the time).  

 

18 is still an adult. Was she competing that way?  It seems like the issue is both ADULTS and swimsuit manufacturers. Not athletes. Why isn't this an issue at the collegiate level? Students magically graduate and their swimsuits grow by several inches or do they simply start wearing more expensive one-piece short-all suits? And if the issue is suit manufacturing, why are athletes being penalized for a suit that was approved by the school and district PRIOR to competition?? I feel like there's a lot of glossing over the fact that both other officials at the meet disagreed and the fact that this particular official has targeted this swimmer and her siblings on several prior occasions.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

5 hours ago, LisaK in VA said:

Girls who are hiking up their suits to "get attention"...

 

Just one more question...are the girls 'intentionally' hiking up their suits also the ones winning multiple races in a meet?

[Sneezyone]

On 9/11/2019 at 9:37 AM, MysteryJen said:

The whole thing was appalling and it has been resolved now. But the highlights (lowlights) are:

1. the completely inappropriate picture and complaint- definitely a violation of Safe Sport regarding the swimmer.

2. The basic misunderstanding of how suits fit on different bodies. 

Girls with derrieres that are muscular from years of squats, swimming and turns have trouble finding suits that stay pulled down. Girls that have small chests need a smaller size suit so that water doesn't pool in the top and pull away- resulting in both drag and inadvertent flashing of the girls. Girls with large chests need more support- so a smaller size acts to compress and support.

The whole thing was so irritating and so, so unnecessary.

 

I can't even count the number of times I've seen gymmies with suit wedgies. This is simply a thing for girls with toned derrières in suits designed to control breast movement.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Sneezyone

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, LisaK in VA said:

Absolutely -- it is wrong.  In the case (as described and adjudicated), the official in this scenario was blatantly wrong.  Moreover, the official didn't follow proper procedure, either (no one seems to know if the offense took place prior to the event (in which case, the coach should have been notified and the girl given a chance to correct it), during the event (umm... yeah, that's a suit malfuction, not intention, so outside the scope of the rule) or after the event (in which case, it's the same result as prior to the event).  In no way, shape or form should the girl in the article have been DQd for it.  

Yeah, it seems the intelligent thing to do is just to pull the girl aside and say, 'hey, pull down your suit please". Now, if she refuses, that's a whole other issue. And as you said, if it is during the race, seems that's beyond her control. 

[MysteryJen]

41 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Just one more question...are the girls 'intentionally' hiking up their suits also the ones winning multiple races in a meet?

Depends on who you ask in the stands.

But frequently enough around here.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, MysteryJen said:

Depends on who you ask in the stands.

But frequently enough around here.

 

I ask b/c I think there's a fair amount of 'hateration' hurled at those who are successful, regardless of body type. They often receive significantly more attention.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Sneezyone

[GoodGrief]

I actually know the judge. Local homeschool mom and educated as an engineer. Very fair-minded and not prone to drama. I have not discussed the incident in question with her but knowing her, I have to think there's more to the story than what has been in the media. I also know people who know the swimmer and have heard that side of it.  In the end, it's probably good to have the swimsuit question examined and maybe this will result in improved, more comfortable options for all. Let's hope.