Long commute or Dorms?

[Miguelsmom]

 

I want my son to commute 45 min-70 min one way in high traffic (varies due to accidents on the bridge). My husband wants my son to stay in the dorms. We can’t help him financially. His tuition and books are paid and he’ll have money left over either for dorms or commuting. It wouldn’t cover all the dorms so he would have to take out loans. He may or may not get a job. Currently he does DE and it takes him all day to complete everything. He completes work slowly. So concentrating on completing school work is important.  

 

My husband’s fear is him driving in that traffic, him not feeling connected to the campus, finding friends, the 2+ hours a day taken away from studies, that he’ll just STOP going and things like that.

 

My issues are financial. If he did commute he’d save about $11k a year, have his own room. However he would have to buy a reliable car, insurance, gas, AAA, maintenance and a meal plan. He wouldn’t have a car if he lived on campus. I’m not sure if my idea will cost more, essentially the same, or actually less. I really don’t want him starting out with debt.

 

What would you advise?

[Wheres Toto]

We had a very similar situation with my oldest.   Her school is between 30 and 90 minutes away depending on traffic and accidents.   Definitely "commutable" since people do it all the time, which is why the traffic is so bad (her school is actually on the way to NYC from our house, so BIG commuter traffic).   We decided to let her live on campus for many of the reasons you mentioned.   Her tuition and fees were paid between us and her dad (divorce agreement) but we allowed her to use her Stafford loans for room and board.   So, yes she took on some debt but fairly minor overall.   It made for a much better experience for her and I do think it made it more likely that she would finish.  She was able to pick the best classes for her schedule, rather than trying to keep things together or not too late at night for her commute.  She had days where she had early morning classes, huge breaks, then late classes.  That would have been awful if she was commuting.  She has her 4 year degree and is now back at the same school commuting for grad school but grad school is all in the evening only one day a week.

What does you son want to do?

[almondbutterandjelly]

Well, I know someone whose son stopped attending class because the 20-30 minute commute was too much.  So I vote dorms.

[Miguelsmom]

12 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

What does you son want to do?

He would prefer dorms. 

[teachermom2834]

I vote dorms. Or off campus closer to campus if that is cheaper. That is just so much time sitting in the car and will get so wearing. Plus there are always things in addition to classes (office hours, study groups, required performances, etc) that come up that are a much bigger challenge with a long commute. 

I am very budget conscious but also weigh the cost of setting dc up for success. Finishing is the goal. 

Depending on where you live, consider the weather factor in the commute. Colleges around here don’t close quickly and I wouldn’t want my dc with long commutes in bad weather or missing class because of weather.

I think those long commutes make more sense for someone going part time or for an adult returning to school who has a house, family, job, or whatever. For young people going full time to college I agree with your dh.

Now, I would not take on huge loans for this but if he has some money towards dorms already and the balance could be covered by federal loans I would be comfortable with that. Also, those two hours spent commuting everyday could possibly be spent working and offset some cost. 

[elegantlion]

I also vote dorms. I commuted to my undergrad institution 30 minutes (~40 miles) for 3 years, then moved to the same town. It made a world of difference in my ability to socialize at school and increased my study time. 

I live an hour away from my graduate institution. I opted to move in an apartment close to campus last year because of gas prices, social activities, long days, evening classes, and wanted freedom to fully concentrate on my studies. It made a huge difference. I'll do the same thing for this upcoming year (I move home for the summer). By the time  you factor in gas, wear and tear on a vehicle, driving while fatigued (college can be exhausting), and poor weather, it made sense to just rent closer to my university. Even if you're used to driving in bad weather, being that far away you might have to leave before the school determines whether it will be open for the day. Universities around here do not typically close for bad weather, yet last winter was a doozy. Both my graduate and undergrad schools closed at least once a week for the first 5-7 weeks of class. A lot of time the call to close was made around 8 a.m., so I would have needed to leave for school before the call was made.

[Mom22ns]

I vote dorms too. I had a friend in college with about a 30 minute commute and he always talked about being left out of everything. 

Ds went to school 45 minutes away. He lived on campus and graduated in May. It was pricey, but well worth it for him.

If he prefers the dorms, I'd support that.

 

 

[Selkie]

Dorms, for all the reasons that have already been mentioned.

My boys go to college about 40 minutes away and started off as commuter students. It didn't take long for us to realize that it was not going to work. With their busy schedules of classes, studying, group projects, clubs & activities, socializing, etc., they were on the road before 7am and didn't get home until late each night. The drive time was cutting into their sleep and I worried about them driving while fatigued.

Fortunately, there were dorm rooms still available, so they were able to move in just a few weeks into their first semester. It worked out great and we all consider it money well spent.

[klmama]

Dorm with meal plan.  He needs to have time and energy left for studying.  If he has a summer job now and then gets a student job on campus, they may cover a good portion of his extra expenses.  

[DawnM]

My son will be commuting 30-40 min each way next year.  I offered the dorms or an apt and he said no, he wanted to be at home.

I have told him he can change his mind at any time.  I think he may end up getting a cheap apt. room (shared can be as little as $350/mo) and can come home on weekends, but for now, he will commute.

 

[8filltheheart]

my dd will be a commuter student. I think under 30-45 mins (the odd traffic delay vs. constant traffic delays) is reasonable and doable for kids who don't want to live on campus. We drive that far all the time to get just about anywhere.  My kids wouldn't see that amt of time as anything unusual at all. But, I do think the required commuting time that the OP is suggesting is onerous. If the commute was on transit vs. driving, at least the time could be productive.  But spending almost 2 1/2 hrs per day in the car is way too much.  An hour, otoh, kids fritter that much time away texting, snap chatting, etc.  An hour total wouldn't convince me to spend $10-15000 extra.

[Kareni]

My husband commuted when he attended university (about an hour and a half each way from door to door using public transportation). He has very negative feelings about his situation then and adamantly recommends choosing the dorm. Given his commute, he was never able to study with other students.

Regards,

Kareni

[SoCal_Bear]

+1 on dorms...for the reasons outlined above. It's a lot of time. 20-30 minutes one way to a campus where parking is readily available would be doable. Impossible for certain schools who have parking constraints.

I have had friends with positive public transportation commuting experiences, but that is beause they were able to use the commute time to get reading done. Hard to do if you get carsick easily like I do. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by calbear

[elegantlion]

2 hours ago, kand said:

Does anyone have positive commuter student experience? I have one who for various reasons is adamantly against anything but living at home next year. She will be a bus commuter, so at least she won’t be doing the driving herself. OTOH, that will make her commute take even longer. 

My son is a commuter and I was a successful commuter for a while. Our move to my university town was not just because of the commute, my mom and I were looking for a house to buy together and it didn't make sense to buy in the town where I lived. 

My son is adamant against dorms, he's a hermit who prefers his solitude and has some expensive computer equipment that he wouldn't want to leave behind. 

You can make commuting a success. In our town we have a bus available, but the lines are few and it would take 50 minutes versus what is an 8 minute drive. 

Plan activities. If you have several hours of down time, seek out a good spot on campus. My undergrad had a commuter and non-traditional student lounge, but the TV was always on and a few of the people ruined the experience by gossiping and talking down about traditionally-aged students. I started hanging out near my department instead or went to the library for quiet time. 

Get to know a few people who live in town where you can stay the night if you're really too tired to drive home. 

Develop a communication plan with your student. If I opted to stay late, I'd text someone. Study groups can crop up at the last minute, activities that you didn't know about, dinner out with classmates. I would want my commuter student to have the freedom to say yes to staying, but be thoughtful enough to let me know when they did. 

Set up a study room at home. Have a quiet space or headphones to allow adequate focus. So much work is done at home. I still have a hard time studying at home, I tend to pack up and go to the library when distractions become too much. 

Have a family game plan. Others can speak to their experience better, but college operates on its own schedule and dinner and other activities may clash with the student's schedule. College can also be exhausting - I didn't realize how exhausting until I started attending on campus classes. Proper sleep is important, but that sleep may come at odd hours. So I would not expect a student to keep up with all the family activities, but make sure they know they are welcome, but that their studies come first. Again, ds and I were students together, so our life really did revolve around college. 

 

[...................]

DORMS HANDS DOWN

My son commuted to community college this year and last as a high schooler and it is truly a soul-sucking experience to be young and healthy and yet have to sit in traffic for hours every day.  When was the last time you had a daily commute?  Yes, anyone can get used to anything and given no choice you make things work.  But it's really truly awful to sit still in traffic for hours every day. 

Not only that, but living at college allows him to get to know a lot more people and be MUCH more involved.

There is no question for me.  Dorms.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Calming Tea

[Farrar]

This seems like a no brainer for the dorms to me. And how much money are we really talking anyway? If he stays on campus he's more likely to be able to get a job, right? And it sounds like he would be able to cover part of the dorm expenses. Plus, he might not even need a car. At the very least, he'd save a ton on gas and could get an older car.

[Miguelsmom]

No he wouldn't have a car on campus. They have everything there including a publix.

Dorms with meal plan come to $11 k a year. So $11 k - car operating fees. So first year save maybe $3k. Second year save $6k.

We're unsure about a job because they say for every student job there's 7 applicants. We thought he'd only have to do 12 credits a semester but if he gets a scholarship through the university he's required to take 15 credits a semester or also attend summer semester. If the scholarship isn't $1,700 a year we won't accept it as it will cost him more to take those 2 extra classes.  He has some attention issues that make doing homework take all day/evening. Working 20 hrs a week may just not be in the cards for him while attending school. However he can work in the summers. 

[katilac]

DORM, 100%!! 

That sounds like a horrific commute to begin with, and it's definitely not one I'd want a less-experienced driver to take on. If he's a slow worker who takes all day to finish, he doesn't have two hours a day to spare. 

Sometimes students have classes that stretch from early in the morning to late in the afternoon, and of course night classes are a thing. Both of my dds have math and business classes with required 'labs' and those are always scheduled in the evening, so you might want to see if it's the same at his school. This coming semester, one of them ends one day at 5.15, one at 6, and one at 8. The day that ends at 6 starts at 8 in the morning. The day that ends at 8 starts at 10 in the morning. Yes, you can work in the library and such, but it's tough when you have a long day and nowhere to truly relax. 

3 hours ago, Miguelsmom said:

 We're unsure about a job because they say for every student job there's 7 applicants. We thought he'd only have to do 12 credits a semester but if he gets a scholarship through the university he's required to take 15 credits a semester or also attend summer semester. If the scholarship isn't $1,700 a year we won't accept it as it will cost him more to take those 2 extra classes.   

 

Who says that about the jobs? Unless it's the school itself, it might be hearsay. Also, with so much stuff nearby, he doesn't need a student job, he just needs a job. My youngest (who lives in reasonable commuting distance but stays in the dorm) doesn't have a car but she pretty quickly found a job within walking distance. 

Here's another factor: 12 hours a semester will not have him graduating in four years, it will require at least two additional semesters and possibly three. An extra 10 hours per week if he stays in the dorms may well be more than enough extra time to take 5 classes instead of 4 at least some semesters. This could save the cost of one or two semesters, so build that into the calculations. 

I'm saying 5 classes because 3 hours is the standard. Unless his school counts credits differently, 12 hours to 15 hours is one additional class, not two. 

 

[RootAnn]

6 hours ago, Miguelsmom said:

If the scholarship isn't $1,700 a year we won't accept it as it will cost him more to take those 2 extra classes. 

 

3 hours ago, katilac said:

 Unless his school counts credits differently, 12 hours to 15 hours is one additional class, not two. 

I think she meant 2 classes a year, not per semester. But, I could be wrong.

My DD#2 might live at home & drive the 30 minutes each way to classes. She wants to live at home. My dd#1 took a couple of classes at the same college during high school and found the library a good place to hang out when it made more sense to stay on campus. She had a morning science class on Monday & Wednesdays that had an associated lab on Wed afternoon. She stayed on campus on Wednesdays, ate lunch, and got homework done. She found she was more productive there than at home.

[Miguelsmom]

3 hours ago, katilac said:

Who says that about the jobs?

The school has that posted where they list the student jobs.

3 hours ago, katilac said:

2 hours a semester will not have him graduating in four years,

When he transfers he'll only need 48 (3-400 level) credits to graduate. It's 1 extra class a semester but 2 extra classes a year that's where I got the 2 classes and $1,700. We're trying 5 classes + a lab this semester to see if he can handle it with support. I'm hoping he will be able to handle the load so we know he'll handle it when he's in an university. At home he takes a mix of online and in-person classes. I know online can be harder (at least for him) then in person. He plans to do all classes in person when at the university.

[...................]

seriously, that is too long of a commute.  

Being a commuter student is frustrating and difficult.  It means that he can't just go truly relax in his room between classes, it means that he can never sleep in, it means that he won't connect as much with campus events, clubs, events, sports, etc.  The longer the commute, the more each of those difficulties increases. I have a little graph in my mind, as I speak, and I would say that a commute that long would put him in the extremely difficult category.  Obviously, that is subjective,....but really...

A commute is a soul sucking experience as we've discussed before, and to do that over an hour each way every single day is just too much, long term.  My son did one semester with me driving (40 minutes because of HOV lane, one semester with him driving one way in rush hour (one hour morning, 20 minutes afernoon) and another semester in rush hour both ways (one hour both ways) and then last semester we specifically chose his classes so as not to be in rush hour at all...but this was a very temporary situation and not intended to be his college experience- they were just dual enrollment classes.  That one semester commuting both ways was really really tough. My son is easy going, not a complainer, no real issues to speak of, calm, and he started having a rapid heartbeat (anxiety) in the mornings because of all of that sitting.  He started to jog around the block before etting in the car which helped and he downloaded books and podcasts but it was soooo hard.

And that was less of a commute than your kid...and your kid has trouble with time management...Idk...I really think he should live in the dorms and maybe you can help him with his debt little by little later on?  

[Miguelsmom]

6 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

.I really think he should live in the dorms and maybe you can help him with his debt little by little later on?  

That's what we're trying to figure out. My husband feels he can just get scholarships to cover it and he will try but it's not like they hand them out easily. I'm not sure we can help him more then essential toiletries. He's basically on his own (financially) when he turns 18 and moves out. I'm hoping to at least pay his interest while in school and get him a secured credit card for college. He needs to keep a 3.0 gpa to keep his state scholarship because if he doesn't do that there's no possibility of the dorms. I may have him get seasonal jobs between now and college entrance.     

[TarynB]

On 6/24/2019 at 8:55 AM, Miguelsmom said:

I want my son to commute 45 min-70 min one way in high traffic (varies due to accidents on the bridge). My husband wants my son to stay in the dorms. We can’t help him financially. His tuition and books are paid and he’ll have money left over either for dorms or commuting. It wouldn’t cover all the dorms so he would have to take out loans. He may or may not get a job. Currently he does DE and it takes him all day to complete everything. He completes work slowly. So concentrating on completing school work is important.  

My husband’s fear is him driving in that traffic, him not feeling connected to the campus, finding friends, the 2+ hours a day taken away from studies, that he’ll just STOP going and things like that.

My issues are financial. If he did commute he’d save about $11k a year, have his own room. However he would have to buy a reliable car, insurance, gas, AAA, maintenance and a meal plan. He wouldn’t have a car if he lived on campus. I’m not sure if my idea will cost more, essentially the same, or actually less. I really don’t want him starting out with debt.

What would you advise?

 

In this scenario, I'd want my son to live in a dorm. #1 for safety reasons. Young driver, high traffic, accidents on bridge? No way. #2 for all the time-efficiency reasons stated by many above. #3 for financial reasons. I think it will cost a lot more than you think to commute. Estimated costs of commuting today range from $0.59 to $0.75 cents per mile (https://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/driving-costs/#.XRKG7-hKg2w), depending on how many miles you drive per year. I don't know how many miles he'd be traveling, but at 30 miles one-way, 60 miles per day, for 180 days a year, it would cost AT LEAST $6300 per year in fuel, depreciation, maintenance, tires, insurance, and the cost of the car itself. That's more than half of the $11k you said he could save by commuting.

I live in an area where we have to drive long distances to get to anything. I still wouldn't want my son to commute in this situation.

Some things are worth the money. I think in this case a dorm room is one of those.

Edited June 25, 2019 by TarynB

[linders]

I vote dorms. I lived at home, a 46-60 min bus ride each way, when I was a freshman. Made only one more-than-casual friend. Felt disconnected. Had to make awful schedules. Couldn't even really study or read on the bus because of crowding, etc.

Moved to dorms afterwards, it was like night and day as far as relationships and academics.

[Mom22ns]

You're right, online is harder for most s

2 hours ago, Miguelsmom said:

The school has that posted where they list the student jobs.

When he transfers he'll only need 48 (3-400 level) credits to graduate. It's 1 extra class a semester but 2 extra classes a year that's where I got the 2 classes and $1,700. We're trying 5 classes + a lab this semester to see if he can handle it with support. I'm hoping he will be able to handle the load so we know he'll handle it when he's in an university. At home he takes a mix of online and in-person classes. I know online can be harder (at least for him) then in person. He plans to do all classes in person when at the university.

You're right, online classes are harder for most people. Ds couldn't handle more than 12 hours/semester most of the time in college either. If he had been required to take 15 for his scholarship, he couldn't have maintained the GPA he needed. He did have to make "adequate progress toward graduation", but his school defined that as 24 credits/year. He did take summer school classes and with some DE, CLEP, and AP credit, graduated in 4 years. Don't be afraid to stand up to a system that pushes him too fast. It works for many, but not for everyone.

Knowing he needs the time to do homework, I'd definitely have him live on campus. Otherwise, he'll lose 1.5-2 hours per day to the commute. It doesn't sound like he has time for that and it will make life much more stressful. 

I do commute 35-45 minutes each way to school. I'm less involved on campus because of it, but I'm old and don't need campus involvement. The dorm would be a much better option, particularly if it is his preference so he'll be trying hard to make it work.

[TarynB]

45 minutes ago, Miguelsmom said:

That's what we're trying to figure out. My husband feels he can just get scholarships to cover it and he will try but it's not like they hand them out easily. I'm not sure we can help him more then essential toiletries. He's basically on his own (financially) when he turns 18 and moves out. I'm hoping to at least pay his interest while in school and get him a secured credit card for college. He needs to keep a 3.0 gpa to keep his state scholarship because if he doesn't do that there's no possibility of the dorms. I may have him get seasonal jobs between now and college entrance.     

 

Does your son know that he's not going to get any financial support from his parents once he turns 18? If this is true, he needs a job ASAP and I don't see how he could have the luxury of not working going forward.

If he lives at home and commutes, will you continue to feed him, let him use your utilities, etc? Or will he pay rent to you? If he moves to a dorm instead, some of your monthly expenses will decrease. Teen boys usually eat a lot (mine does and he's not even an athlete), so I'd bet your grocery bill alone will go down significantly, plus your water bill and gas or electricity bill (fewer showers, less laundry). Can you not apply your monthly "savings" toward helping him live on campus? Just trying to help you brainstorm.

Edited June 25, 2019 by TarynB

[Miguelsmom]

3 minutes ago, TarynB said:

Does your son know that he's not going to get any financial support from his parents once he turns 18?

He knows, but again he spends most of his waking hours getting through school. He has 1 day he does co-op and 1 night he spends at a friend's house. Currently he's doing 1 class and he spends hours a day just trying to focus long enough to do it. We've developed a plan to make his days shorter. Right now he's visiting family, taking a class on-line and July he'll be getting his volunteer hours in for the state scholarship. He has an internship next semester and if he holds 5 classes + 1 lab well then we'll see about a job but school, and scholarships I want to be his main focus.

 

15 minutes ago, TarynB said:

If he lives at home and commutes, will you continue to feed him, let him use your utilities, etc?

Yes we will but we only spend about $300 month on food. That extra will be going to him or insurance.

[Miguelsmom]

33 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

How is school being paid for? 

• State scholarship (pays tuition+$300 book voucher) Has to keep a 3.0 to keep it. (12 credits a semester required)
• Pell $6,195
• University merit scholarship (possibly) (15 credits a semester)
• loans/work study

Edited June 25, 2019 by Miguelsmom

[Miguelsmom]

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Ok, so the state scholarship sounds pretty firm, is that right?

We live in FL. The State scholarship is solid.

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

*and he STILL would be paying $11k in room and board on campus?  Which would make room and board $17k?  Is that math right?

Room, board and food together are 11k. (cheapest dorm, best food plan because it's only $100 difference between meal plan 1 and 2)  So with the pell grant he'll need a little under $5k which can be covered by loans or work study if he gets it. 

 

I would love to cover the $5k left especially because I don't believe in loans.   

[daijobu]

Another vote for dorms.  Or a nearby apartment if it will save money.  

[katilac]

5 hours ago, RootAnn said:

My DD#2 might live at home & drive the 30 minutes each way to classes. She wants to live at home. 

30 minutes each way is much more manageable. If she has a long break before an evening lab, she could even drive home sometimes if she needs a real rest. 

4 hours ago, Miguelsmom said:

The school has that posted where they list the student jobs.

When he transfers he'll only need 48 (3-400 level) credits to graduate. It's 1 extra class a semester but 2 extra classes a year that's where I got the 2 classes and $1,700. We're trying 5 classes + a lab this semester to see if he can handle it with support. I'm hoping he will be able to handle the load so we know he'll handle it when he's in an university. At home he takes a mix of online and in-person classes. I know online can be harder (at least for him) then in person. He plans to do all classes in person when at the university.

2 extra classes per year makes sense, my brain wasn't computing. And I think online is harder for the majority of students. 

46 minutes ago, Miguelsmom said:

 Room, board and food together are 11k. (cheapest dorm, best food plan because it's only $100 difference between meal plan 1 and 2)  So with the pell grant he'll need a little under $5k which can be covered by loans or work study if he gets it.    

I was already casting a hard vote for dorm, and having it at $5k? Absolutely the dorm! He will spend more than that commuting. 

If he's getting the Pell grant, shouldn't he also be eligible for subsidized loans with no interest building up while in school? Can someone verify? Take another look at his aid offer. 

Borrowing $5,000 a year means he can at least make a dent in it if he works every summer. He might also be able to find a weekends-only job during the school year; I did this with fast-food job all four years - weekends, summers, and breaks. He'll need some of it for spending money, but even paying off a small amount every year helps a lot. 

It's a lot to think about!

[teachermom2834]

Come to think of it our state flagship is about 70 minutes away and I have never heard of anyone commuting except an adult grad student going once or twice a week. I never considered my kids could commute to that school. I have had occasions that I had to make that trip multiple times in a week and even that is annoying. Five days a week for years sounds awful. So much time wasted driving and so much gas money and wear on the car let alone just the increased chance of speeding tickets, etc that comes with that kind of mileage being driven every week. What is the back up plan if his car is in the shop? Is someone available to drive him back and forth? Life happens and a long commute like that is hard to absorb. 

I don’t know why I keep coming back to this thread. I usually don’t much care about the decisions other people make but for some reason I feel strongly that this kid shouldn’t take this on. 

[RootAnn]

@katilac I think her son is a rising senior, so he doesn't have an aid offer yet. She's planning ahead.

@Miguelsmom Are his five classes next year all DE? Or a mix of home/ online/ DE?

[Miguelsmom]

4 hours ago, katilac said:

he also be eligible for subsidized loans with no interest building up while in school?

Yes but that's only $3k. He'd still have to take out $2.5k in unsub. but no private loans. He wouldn't qualify either.

 

4 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

What is the back up plan if his car is in the shop?

He would take our car. The thing is all the jobs in his major are around that far away too. So I thought it was fine as he'll make commute when he graduates. 

 

4 hours ago, RootAnn said:

 I think her son is a rising senior, so he doesn't have an aid offer yet. She's planning ahead

He is a rising senior and applications go in next Monday. I want to make sure I've thought of every possibility before allowing my son to apply. The worse thing that could happen is us to spend the money to apply, him get in and not be able to go because of money especially if it's a couple hundred dollars short.

 

4 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Are his five classes next year all DE? Or a mix of home/ online/ DE?

Yes they're all DE courses + a lab. He has no at home courses but his DE is a mix of online and in person. Usually he does only 4 classes and 2 summer classes but he's graduating May. If this semester doesn't go well he will drop down but that will increase his workload at University level and possibly extend the time at University.

[Matryoshka]

On 6/25/2019 at 7:29 AM, Miguelsmom said:

No he wouldn't have a car on campus. They have everything there including a publix.

Dorms with meal plan come to $11 k a year. So $11 k - car operating fees. So first year save maybe $3k. Second year save $6k.

We're unsure about a job because they say for every student job there's 7 applicants. We thought he'd only have to do 12 credits a semester but if he gets a scholarship through the university he's required to take 15 credits a semester or also attend summer semester. If the scholarship isn't $1,700 a year we won't accept it as it will cost him more to take those 2 extra classes.  He has some attention issues that make doing homework take all day/evening. Working 20 hrs a week may just not be in the cards for him while attending school. However he can work in the summers. 

This confuses me - I've been assuming this is a regular 4-year university he'll be attending?  I've never heard of one that charges extra by the class for classes taken during fall/spring semesters for a full-time student (unlike community colleges, which do charge by the class).  At the schools I've seen it's usually one tuition rate for 12-18 credits (one of my dds has taken up to 21 with no extra cost).  AND you need to take at least 15 credits/semester to graduate with the minimum number of credits (usually 120), so taking 12 credits/semester, while being the bare minimum to be considered a 'full-time student', would make most kids have to take an extra semester or two to finish, which would cost way more overall. The 15 credit thing for the scholarship is probably because that is the standard amount one has to take to finish on time. I realize this may not apply if he's coming in with DE credits, but that still shouldn't mean he has to pay extra for an extra class or two during the semester (or that he'll get some kind of a discount if he takes only 12 credits).

Or are you saying he absolutely can't handle 5 classes at a time, and you'd be paying for them over the summer?  If he doesn't need the 'extra' classes to finish his major, I'd consider having him take a 'fluff' class - something he wouldn't have to put a lot of brain energy into - during the semester to make the 15 credits rather than paying extra for them outside of the semester.  There should be no extra cost to take 15 vs. 12 credits during the semester unless this school has a structure unlike any other I've ever heard of.

I'm with everyone else that thinks that commute is too long.  An extra class might take less out of him stamina-wise than 2.5 hours/day in traffic. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Matryoshka

[teachermom2834]

13 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

This confuses me - I've been assuming this is a regular 4-year university he'll be attending?  I've never heard of one that charges extra by the class for classes taken during fall/spring semesters for a full-time student (unlike community colleges, which do charge by the class).  At the schools I've seen it's usually one tuition rate for 12-18 credits (one of my dds has taken up to 21 with no extra cost).  AND you need to take at least 15 credits/semester to graduate with the minimum number of credits (usually 120), so taking 12 credits/semester, while being the bare minimum to be considered a 'full-time student', would make most kids have to take an extra semester or two to finish, which would cost way more overall. The 15 credit thing for the scholarship is probably because that is the standard amount one has to take to finish on time. I realize this may not apply if he's coming in with DE credits, but that still shouldn't mean he has to pay extra for an extra class or two during the semester (or that he'll get some kind of a discount if he takes only 12 credits).

Or are you saying he absolutely can't handle 5 classes at a time, and you'd be paying for them over the summer?  If he doesn't need the 'extra' classes to finish his major, I'd consider having him take a 'fluff' class - something he wouldn't have to put a lot of brain energy into - during the semester to make the 15 credits rather than paying extra for them outside of the semester.  There should be no extra cost to take 15 vs. 12 credits during the semester unless this school has a structure unlike any other I've ever heard of.

 

I don’t understand all the details of the OP situation but my ds is at a public university in FL and his tuition is charged per credit hour and his scholarship varies depending on how many hours he takes. ( He doesn’t get the max scholarship because he takes 15 instead of 18 hours). He also has to complete 30 hours with a 3.0 to renew his scholarship for the following year. 

My ds is out of state so he isn’t dealing with the state scholarship so I don’t know those details. But a little of this does make sense (though I would think a full tuition scholarship would pay for the full 15 hours)

 

[Matryoshka]

6 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

I don’t understand all the details of the OP situation but my ds is at a public university in FL and his tuition is charged per credit hour and his scholarship varies depending on how many hours he takes. ( He doesn’t get the max scholarship because he takes 15 instead of 18 hours). He also has to complete 30 hours with a 3.0 to renew his scholarship for the following year. 

My ds is out of state so he isn’t dealing with the state scholarship so I don’t know those details. But a little of this does make sense (though I would think a full tuition scholarship would pay for the full 15 hours)

Yeah, I've never dealt with a university in FL.  My dds all attend public universities, but in the northeast, and all the schools they applied to were up here, as they didn't want too far away.  That's so different from what I'm used to!

I would also think a 'full-tuition scholarship' should pay for the standard number of credits/semester for a student to finish in 4 years.  But heck, our state's 'full-tuition scholarship' only covers about 1/10th the cost of classes, because they took that amount aside ($950-$1700/year)and called it 'tuition' and called the rest of what everyone else would call tuition 'fees'.  So ours is a joke... 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Matryoshka

[Miguelsmom]

24 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I've been assuming this is a regular 4-year university he'll be attending?

They charged per credit in FL not just full time is X amount even at university level.

40 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

are you saying he absolutely can't handle 5 classes at a time, and you'd be paying for them over the summer?

He's heading into the university with 96 transferable credits towards his major. So 12 credits/semester gets him out in 2 years. I really don't think he can handle 15 credits a semester at university level and keep a 3.0. So any scholarship with 15 credit requirement he may have to pass up meaning the university scholarships but the state scholarship only requires full time (12 credits) so he's good there. 

 

43 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I'd consider having him take a 'fluff' class - something he wouldn't have to put a lot of brain energy into

I didn't think of a "fluff" class. I'll recommend that to him. 

[Matryoshka]

8 minutes ago, Miguelsmom said:

He's heading into the university with 96 transferable credits towards his major. So 12 credits/semester gets him out in 2 years. I really don't think he can handle 15 credits a semester at university level and keep a 3.0. So any scholarship with 15 credit requirement he may have to pass up meaning the university scholarships but the state scholarship only requires full time (12 credits) so he's good there. 

This is actually very similar to my youngest dd's situation, who will be transferring to the public state university in the fall.  She has a similar amount of DE credits as your ds, but the school only allows 75 to transfer.  But that really doesn't make much of a difference, as she still has to take the required courses in her major, and while she did make sure to take as many of her DE credits as possible to get the freshman/sophomore prereqs in her major and all her GenEds out of the way, there was no way to take the upper-level courses, and the rest of the credits, even if accepted, would just be 'general' and not take any additional time off.

She can also finish with only 12 credits most semesters, but that also assumes that she can get into all the classes she needs at the right time in the right order.  She can't sign up for classes till the transfer orientation next month, and many of the classes she needs for the first semester are almost full or full.  This makes me nervous!  If she has to take random classes the first semester to keep her full-time status (12 cr), I will be seriously annoyed.  She does not need more random credits.  She's also thinking of adding a minor - she can still do that in 4 semesters but then she'd have to take 15/semester to finish in 4.  She's also thinking of doing an optional paid internship semester where they still take 2 classes - not sure how they charge for that, but we've said she can go one extra semester if she gets the internship; then she might still be able to keep it to 12 credits most semesters. She could probably handle 15 credits/semester if one of the classes were fluff, but 15 credits in a major/minor might overtax her.... We shall see how things go...

[Janeway]

Check the cost of a parking pass and any sort of tolls, wear and tear on the car, etc, to see if the prices are really that different. There is a university here that is about that far, but, parents have told me the parking passes are huge and it is very hard to find parking once there. I have been told though, apartments near campus are way less expensive and often have cheap or free buses to the campus as a bonus. 

[TarynB]

OP, obviously we don't know your son, and you do know him, his strengths and weaknesses, better than anyone. But if I were in your shoes, I'd lay out for my DS the concerns regarding the number of credit hours he's capable of per semester, being able to work or not (which means being able to afford the college or not?), maintain a 3.0 which means keeping his scholarship, graduate on time, etc, and then leave it with him. I would think my son deserves the chance to apply himself, rise to the occasion, and not have it decided for him in advance. Obviously, you know you can't do it for him. At some point he has to do this, or not. 

[Miguelsmom]

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

$6k of that is paid for by the Pell Grant

The pell grant would be given to him in a "refund" for educational expenses meaning commuting. He would use that to commute. However we are not going to have him commute unless there's no way to pay for dorms. 

He doesn't have the option to move to his own apartment unless on campus until after he gets a full time job. I think off campus housing will take away a lot of the reasons why he wants the dorms. He wants a room mate, he wants all the cafeteria's and all you can eat food, he wants all the clubs and activities. He may not want it after the first semester but as of now he wants the dorms.

 

54 minutes ago, TarynB said:

, I'd lay out for my DS the concerns regarding the number of credit hours he's capable of per semester, being able to work or not (which means being able to afford the college or not?), maintain a 3.0 which means keeping his scholarship, graduate on time, etc, and then leave it with him.

My son knows all my concerns. He wants to figure everything else out later after his university package comes back. I feel that's to late to apply for other scholarships or attempt working to make up for the balance. He wants to see about accommodations and his other options to alleviate how much time he spends on school work. 

[Miguelsmom]

I wouldn't feel comfortable with him off campus without a car. It's ~$610/month. He wouldn't have a co-signer so most likely won't be able to get an apartment.

[linders]

On 6/26/2019 at 12:34 AM, Miguelsmom said:

So I thought it was fine as he'll make commute when he graduates. 

 

But a work schedule will be totally different than school - arrive at some specific time every morning, leave at a specific time in the afternoon, with the whole time in between occupied.

[Miguelsmom]

49 minutes ago, linders said:

But a work schedule will be totally different than school - arrive at some specific time every morning, leave at a specific time in the afternoon, with the whole time in between occupied

I figured he'd go in and stay the same amount of time doing homework, hanging out with friends, doing clubs and then go home. I guess because I did it. Bus not drive, I figured driving would be a bit easier and not a big deal. We use to go from 6 am - 7 (8)pm on campus. 

[BlsdMama]

On 6/24/2019 at 8:55 AM, Miguelsmom said:

 

 

I want my son to commute 45 min-70 min one way in high traffic (varies due to accidents on the bridge). My husband wants my son to stay in the dorms. We can’t help him financially. His tuition and books are paid and he’ll have money left over either for dorms or commuting. It wouldn’t cover all the dorms so he would have to take out loans. He may or may not get a job. Currently he does DE and it takes him all day to complete everything. He completes work slowly. So concentrating on completing school work is important.  

 

My husband’s fear is him driving in that traffic, him not feeling connected to the campus, finding friends, the 2+ hours a day taken away from studies, that he’ll just STOP going and things like that.

 

My issues are financial. If he did commute he’d save about $11k a year, have his own room. However he would have to buy a reliable car, insurance, gas, AAA, maintenance and a meal plan. He wouldn’t have a car if he lived on campus. I’m not sure if my idea will cost more, essentially the same, or actually less. I really don’t want him starting out with debt.

 

What would you advise?

I'd advise neither.


We have the identical scenario.
DS had big scholarship $$ his first two years.  His tuition was fully covered, books, and then some.  He stayed in the dorms.  His dorm and meal plan came out to approximately $950/month, give or take, I don't remember the exact numbers.

Last semester, we thought he'd lose a big scholarship and he moved home for the semester.  He commuted, working to cover his costs. His travel is about 50 minutes, one way, in ideal & fast-moving traffic.  I *loved* having him home, but he would stay on campus for so much - study groups, mock trial practice, socializing, etc.  So when he got home, it would be late, or he'd be tired.  He stayed on campus a few times due to nasty weather.   Financially, he came out ahead over the dorm stay, but it was still an expensive and more stressful semester and very hard on his tired, old car.

This semester he is renting an apartment with a friend - $350+ utilities (so approximately $400/month) and we are covering a meal plan, but obviously grocery shopping and cooking would be less.   I wish they had looked at a 3 bedroom and pulled in another roommate too - that would have lowered it even further.

IMO, this is precisely why it is mostly freshman in the dorms.  Newbie parents and students don't do the math of how crazy expensive the dorms are!  

[Miguelsmom]

The area that is nearby caters to students. So they offer apartments that are per room rent with everything included. A little outside the area is not the best neighborhood and would have to have a car. We're in a cheap complex 45 min-70 min away and our 3 bedroom in our complex is $1500 w/o utilities. It's cheaper then the dorms though.   

[BlsdMama]

16 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Ok, so it sounds like commuting isn't really saving $11k, since $6k of that is paid for by the Pell Grant.  Which means he's only saving $5k by commuting.  Which, given the gas prices, he wouldn't really save since that would all go towards the gas money.  So, financially at least, it sounds like the commute isn't actually worth it.

 

An alternative solution that might actually save money is an apartment near campus with roommates.  Many large schools have apartment complexes nearby that cater to college students.  My DD stayed in an apartment the last two years of school, she had roommates but didn't have to find them, the apartment complex did that.  And, every person in her apartment had their own lease.  So, she couldn't get kicked out if her roommate didn't pay rent.  This was a super common thing near her school and it's my understanding that many large schools have such a set up.

 

Yes to all of this.  The other significant consideration is this:  I assume since $$ is tight, that he already owns a car?  How reliable is it?
The costs associated with a car is significant.  DS owns a 1999 Malibu that he paid $1200 for, lol.  He doesn't have monthly payment, but there are significant costs - tires, upkeep, repairs.  We pay his insurance, but if you're not currently, that's an additional expense.  

If he isn't working, he will have monthly expenses and including gas with a commute.
If he's commuting an hour a day, that's two he could be working on campus without commute costs.  At $10/hour - that's $20/day or $100/week without touching nights or weekends.

12 hours ago, Miguelsmom said:

I wouldn't feel comfortable with him off campus without a car. It's ~$610/month. He wouldn't have a co-signer so most likely won't be able to get an apartment.

University campuses/towns don't follow predictable rules.  They make a lot of money off recognizing their market is college students and so they cater to kids with no credit history.  I understand your discomfort.  Our first (DD) 100% commuted her entire three years at school until she graduated.  DS decided he wanted to live on campus, in dorms, and was willing to take out minimal loan amounts to make it happen.  He also didn't think his current car would survive the commuting daily.  DS signed a contract for an apartment close to campus in June.  He moves in August.  No co-signer needed and no credit check.  He and roommate signed separate leases for the same room.  Each is responsible for their own half.

We did a TON of research.
The bus system is amazing and a lot of students figure it out.  It has an app and a learning curve, but it's doable.  
DD's commuter parking fee was significant - like $400/semester.
As much as I thought DS would want/need to have a car, I was wrong.  The city caters to their students - and students can bus/walk/jog etc.  DS opted to run to classes rather than use the bus.  His dorm was furthest from his classes - one was over a mile daily.  He actually preferred running, lol, so ya never know.

Having a car meant his friends had to move them constantly due to regulations, costs, and weather.  He said it was a pain and they rarely used them.  He never wished he had a car on campus as a freshman or sophomore.

As a junior, he'll be off campus, but let's be honest, college towns are essentially a campus.  He will have a car there this next year, but only because his apartment includes parking ( a rarity) and because he commutes to his job this year.

I'd suggest that you carefully evaluate what you currently believe and why believe them  - it's not said sassy, it's just that before we send a kid off to school, we evaluate based on things that may make sense in a real world scenario, but university city living is different than that - such as needing credit or a co-signer to get an apartment, the necessity of a car, expenses, etc.  We live in a state with inadequate public transportation, many miles between cities, and fields in between.  It never occurred to me that people could survive here without access to a car.  And they can't, for the most part, EXCEPT in the college communities. 😉 
 

Edited June 27, 2019 by BlsdMama

[Miguelsmom]

We lived in an unsafe area around there years ago our apartment would be $800+ utilities (so $400+ utilities if they set it up like a double dorm room like we did). However none of his friends are going to this university. Most kids stay local and finish their BA/BS at our local college, the satellite campus, or commute to a private school. He wants THIS school, if the school did early decision this is where he would pick. The bus system there is great (and free for students) but because of the area I wouldn't want him walking around. Yes, the area is that bad plagued with violence, and drugs. I know it's who you know that's the issue but I don't want to chance it. I'll talk it over with my family though.

 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Miguelsmom said:

I figured he'd go in and stay the same amount of time doing homework, hanging out with friends, doing clubs and then go home. I guess because I did it. Bus not drive, I figured driving would be a bit easier and not a big deal. We use to go from 6 am - 7 (8)pm on campus. 

There are definitely people who can pull this off and not think twice about it, but I would have been exhausted. For me, driving that far is actually way harder than riding a bus - it's much easier to chat, read, and drowse for an hour than to concentrate on the road for an hour, and  you described a very high-stress drive with lots of traffic and accidents. 

53 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

 IMO, this is precisely why it is mostly freshman in the dorms.  Newbie parents and students don't do the math of how crazy expensive the dorms are!  

I think it is mostly freshman in the dorms because most schools without a housing shortage require freshmen to live in the dorms, and schools with a housing shortage give freshmen preference. 

There are other reasons, too! I like the extra layer of security in the dorms (single entrance, rooms don't have exterior doors, key card to enter building, front desk attendant) that the off-campus options don't have at my kids' schools. My kids are elf-sized and started college with no experience living on their own, so that was important to me. 

Plus, sometimes the math work in favor of the dorms, it just depends. At one of their schools, there is exactly one apartment complex within walking distance of campus, and it's more expensive than the dorms. Neither school is in a city where living out of walking distance without a car is practical. Most American cities don't have good public transport, but the really big universities will have their own bus system. 

But, yeah, that is why research is called for, nothing about sending them to college can be too simple. I think it's a law, lol.