In high school and getting AA degree

[crazyforlatin]

Just curious if anyone here has a student who has gotten an AA degree before graduating high school and what was the area.

Rather than applying to high schools here, DD is thinking of taking college classes during high school and possibly getting an AA degree. We're in CA so she'll have to pass the CHSPE in March 2019 in order to take a summer class.

Her ultimate goal for now is medical school if anyone would like to advise us as to what classes to take at CC.

 

 

 

[JenneinCA]

My son did this.  He is studying computer science.  It has worked fine for him.  He took a bunch of general education stuff that was needed for his AA degree (and for high school) but his college doesn’t care about at all.  He has plenty of general electives but needs to take math and computer classes that weren’t offered at the community college or he needed the time to take the classes for the AA.

I think you should look carefully at some of the other threads on this board about medical school and taking classes at a community college.  As I remember it was NOT a good idea to take any math or science classes that way.  You might try a new thread with something about medical school and community college in it.

[HollyDay]

We personally did not do this.  However I do know a few IRL families whose dc graduated homeschool with an AA and a high school diploma.  The only concern those families expressed was maturity and age.  Some universities don't allow juniors to live to campus.  Will your dd be ready to live in an apartment with 20-21 yr olds?  Also, check with the universities she would like  to attend.  Will her BS be pre-med or something else?  If she is majoring in something like chemistry, then her preferred university might want her degree classes to be taken with them and not a community college.

I do know one dc who is getting an AS at the community college then hoping to transfer premed.  She has her university selected and is working with them to make the transfer as smooth as possible.

[historically accurate]

We are on track to do this with oldest. She is interested in computer science, not pre-med/medical school though.

She took 1 class as a Freshman, a few as a Sophomore. She will be mainly full-time here as a Junior and a Senior. She will end up with an AS if the plan works well. At the colleges she is looking at, there will be some extraneous classes used for high school/associates that they don't care about, but she will have most of her non-computer science classes covered. 

[Kassia]

My dd will graduate high school with almost 90 DE credits but no AS degree.  We want her to apply to college as a first-year student for merit scholarships plus there are too many classes she'd have to take for the AS that won't do her any good.  One of my sons graduated from high school with over 60 DE credits and also did not earn the AS degree.  

Most of the professors at our CC are very good.  The math department is especially strong and we prefer our kids to take classes there because of the great instruction.  My older son completed all of his science, most of his math, and most of his GE requirements at the CC before getting his computer science and engineering degree from the university he attended. 

[G5052]

The CC I used to work for had usually 20-30 who did this every year. The daughter of a friend of mine did this and ended up in vet school. Another friend's son did too, and he's currently in medical school.

Just make sure that it is a quality CC with transfer agreements if possible to a top-notch four-year that has a solid medical school admission rate. It doesn't seem to be an issue in my state under those conditions, but I've read of others on this board who had problems.

Not pre-med, but my son went from a CC degree to a top-20 school in his major. We had to really watch his line-up of courses because he probably wouldn't have gotten in without the guaranteed admission agreement which required certain courses and a high GPA. They only take a certain number of transfers every year, and the guaranteed admits go before the general transfers. There was a glitch with the database such that he almost didn't get admitted, but they added another slot for him because it was their error. Whew!

My younger one will go to the same school next fall, and thankfully the requirements are looser although she will also go under guaranteed admission as long as she keeps her grades up. In her case, the program is one of only six in the U.S., so it's a win-win.

[crazyforlatin]

Does getting an AA degree mean that she will be considered a transfer student? 

Medical school is so far off and something that I find to be an uphill climb that I don't think I’ll be planning her CC classes around that idea. I'll do a search for it on this forum though.

Since we will be taking one class this summer (most likely statistics) and couple of classes in 9th grade, any suggestions as to what sort of classes that are easier to transition into?  I talked with a private university professor who warned us about taking her Roman and Greek literature class due to violent themes, which is apparently fine with DD because she's read them in her Latin class. But the college students may not enjoy having DD around. 

 

[Kassia]

I would start her in classes where you think she has the best chance of succeeding.  My dd started at 13 with Spanish classes.  She already knew the material so it was a great subject for her to get used to the pace and expectations of a college class.  Being young never seemed to be a problem with other students but sometimes the professors made her uncomfortable because of mature content or language (but she's very conservative).  

As far as being a transfer student if she gets her degree, I think that depends on the college she attends.  

[chiguirre]

26 minutes ago, kand said:

This might vary by state/college, but in my state, a high school student who graduates with an AA still applies as a freshman as long as they haven’t taken any credits after their high school graduation date, which would also be their AA completion date usually with the way it works here. 

Trinqueta is on track to graduate with her AA about 3 weeks before she graduates from high school with MPOA. She'll be able to apply as a freshman and qualify for those scholarships at TX schools. She'll still need 3 years to finish her bachelors because of the sequence of courses but she'll be able to double major or add a couple of minors or certificates or do a combined BBA/MPA in 4 years instead of 5.

She took the first English comp class and film appreciation over the summer and is currently taking Intro to Psych. There have been other dual enrollment students in all of her classes. In fact, her Psych class has 3 or 4 from the local early college high school.

[crazyforlatin]

43 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I would start her in classes where you think she has the best chance of succeeding.  My dd started at 13 with Spanish classes.  She already knew the material so it was a great subject for her to get used to the pace and expectations of a college class.  Being young never seemed to be a problem with other students but sometimes the professors made her uncomfortable because of mature content or language (but she's very conservative).  

As far as being a transfer student if she gets her degree, I think that depends on the college she attends.  

 

That's a great idea! I was going to do all science courses at CC, starting with biology in 9th grade, but college biology is probably going to be overwhelming. 

[crazyforlatin]

8 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

Trinqueta is on track to graduate with her AA about 3 weeks before she graduates from high school with MPOA. She'll be able to apply as a freshman and qualify for those scholarships at TX schools. She'll still need 3 years to finish her bachelors because of the sequence of courses but she'll be able to double major or add a couple of minors or certificates or do a combined BBA/MPA in 4 years instead of 5.

She took the first English comp class and film appreciation over the summer and is currently taking Intro to Psych. There have been other dual enrollment students in all of her classes. In fact, her Psych class has 3 or 4 from the local early college high school.

 

May I ask what field is her AA degree? Just wondering if an AA can be just a general sort of degree. 

And, is MPOA referring to Memorial Press?

[chiguirre]

2 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

 

That's a great idea! I was going to do all science courses at CC, starting with biology in 9th grade, but college biology is probably going to be overwhelming. 

The thing about science classes is that there are often 2 levels, major and non-major. To do well in the major class, you'd need to have taken a solid high school level class first. At T's CC there are also honors classes that are only open to students admitted to their honors college (not too hard, you need at least a 3.5 on 9 credit hours). Our CC offers some honors science classes and a science major should probably take those.

[crazyforlatin]

We're in California in case anyone here knows how CC credits transfer to private universities and in-state schools.

[chiguirre]

Just now, crazyforlatin said:

 

May I ask what field is her AA degree? Just wondering if an AA can be just a general sort of degree. 

And, is MPOA referring to Memorial Press?

She'll get a general AA that covers the 42 credit "Texas Core Curriculum" that all public universities must require of all students and that transfer as a block, plus she plans on the 3 semester Calc sequence and Micro and Macro Econ. She'll only have 1 or 2 electives.

She's doing Memoria Press' diploma program.

[chiguirre]

2 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

We're in California in case anyone here knows how CC credits transfer to private universities and in-state schools.

You can go on their websites and look at their transfer equivalencies. In TX, every private university (Baylor, SMU, St. Thomas) accepts a similar amount of credit that UT Austin or TAMU would. The only exception is Rice which has a wishy-washy individual review process. Many Ivies and top tier privates have that sort of language too. But Trinqueta is likely to study Accounting, Finance, Actuarial Studies or Statistics so our flagships are excellent choices for her.

[crazyforlatin]

30 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

The thing about science classes is that there are often 2 levels, major and non-major. To do well in the major class, you'd need to have taken a solid high school level class first. At T's CC there are also honors classes that are only open to students admitted to their honors college (not too hard, you need at least a 3.5 on 9 credit hours). Our CC offers some honors science classes and a science major should probably take those.

 

That makes sense with science classes since the college students would have taken H.S. science. We've done physics with MorningGlory and are currently in chemistry with Dicentra. Given that we've had good experiences with both, we'll probably just do biology at home with an online provider.

[Kassia]

58 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

 

That's a great idea! I was going to do all science courses at CC, starting with biology in 9th grade, but college biology is probably going to be overwhelming. 

 

Our CC offers "Elementary Chemistry" which is more of a high school level chemistry class with a lab.  Dd took that since we didn't do chemistry at home.  It won't count for anything as far as transferring but I was happy to outsource high school chemistry.  She'll take college physics next fall at the CC.  We did biology at home and she did Ocean Science at the CC.  I do regret not doing biology at the CC, though.  Doing it at home didn't go as well as I had hoped.  

[Roadrunner]

I know very little about this, but there have been several cases when school councilors have recommended kids to go straight into 4 year schools and avoid CC especially for math/sciences courses for kids interested in premed. Something about medical schools wanting to see all the science taken at a 4 year university. Honestly, don’t read much into what I say here because none of my kids are interested in medicine and I just let those things come into one ear and out of other, but if you do have a student with a real interest in medicine, at least investigate seriously if those rumors have any truth to them before deciding. 

[Matryoshka]

My dd will be graduating with an AS in Business in the spring.  That normally would have had her graduating high school at the same time, but we're actually graduating her a semester early, as she does not want to apply a as a freshman, and in order to get the benefits of our state's CC to university transfer program she has to take the last 12 credits as a regular college student, not DE.  Obviously, these programs vary widely from state to state.

There are a lot of considerations as to which way to go.  Virtually all the other hs'ers I know have either just taken lots of classes and not tried to get an AA/S, or did get one and still applied as freshmen (to do that you have to graduate AA/high school almost simultaneously).  My dd is doing it the other way as she loves the idea of going to our StateU with the transfer perks (guaranteed admission to university and major, no SAT needed, no essay for application, small tuition credit) - if she were casting a wider net and applying at private schools too, this wouldn't work - the transfer guarantees are only at our state's public Us.  The State U doesn't give a ton of merit aid to freshmen either, and her grades are good but not stellar, and besides she'd at least have to take the SAT and do great as well, and she doesn't want to take it at all - so 'giving up' freshman merit aid is rather moot in our case.

I also thought I'd read here many times that taking Pre-Med classes at CC was frowned upon by Med schools and it was better to take them at a 4-year - my dd isn't interested in medicine so that wasn't a consideration for us, but sounds like it could be for you.

She'll have 80+ credits and only 72 will transfer, but that's fine.  The courses just for her major (even with tons of it done at CC) will still take 2 more years at least and she doesn't need any more transferred.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Matryoshka

[crazyforlatin]

32 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I know very little about this, but there have been several cases when school councilors have recommended kids to go straight into 4 year schools and avoid CC especially for math/sciences courses for kids interested in premed. Something about medical schools wanting to see all the science taken at a 4 year university. Honestly, don’t read much into what I say here because none of my kids are interested in medicine and I just let those things come into one ear and out of other, but if you do have a student with a real interest in medicine, at least investigate seriously if those rumors have any truth to them before deciding. 

 

4 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

My dd will be graduating with an AS in the spring.  That normally would have had her graduating high school at the same time, but we're actually graduating her a semester early, as she does not want to apply a as a freshman, and in order to get the benefits of our state's CC to university transfer program she has to take the last 12 credits as a regular college student, not DE.  Obviously, these programs vary widely from state to state.

There are a lot of considerations as to which way to go.  Virtually all the other hs'ers I know have either just taken lots of classes and not tried to get an AA/S, or did get one and still applied as freshmen (to do that you have to graduate AA/high school almost simultaneously).  My dd is doing it the other way as she loves the idea of going to our StateU with the transfer perks (guaranteed admission to university and major, no SAT needed, no essay for application, small tuition credit) - if she were casting a wider net and applying at private schools too, this wouldn't work - the transfer guarantees are only at our state's public Us.  The State U doesn't give a ton of merit aid to freshmen either, and her grades are good but not stellar, and besides she'd at least have to take the SAT and do great as well, and she doesn't want to take it at all - so 'giving up' freshman merit aid is rather moot in our case.

I also thought I'd read here many times that taking Pre-Med classes at CC was frowned upon by Med schools and it was better to take them at a 4-year - my dd isn't interested in medicine so that wasn't a consideration for us, but sounds like it could be for you.

 

As a matter fact I think I did read about that here - take science courses at university, not at CC. We probably will take a couple of science classes at CC for H.S. purposes but not to transfer those same credits to college. I don't know the quality of our impacted CC. 

Has anyone here gotten an AA degree and worked in that AA field during college summers?

 

[madteaparty]

6 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

Does getting an AA degree mean that she will be considered a transfer student? 

Medical school is so far off and something that I find to be an uphill climb that I don't think I’ll be planning her CC classes around that idea. I'll do a search for it on this forum though.

Since we will be taking one class this summer (most likely statistics) and couple of classes in 9th grade, any suggestions as to what sort of classes that are easier to transition into?  I talked with a private university professor who warned us about taking her Roman and Greek literature class due to violent themes, which is apparently fine with DD because she's read them in her Latin class. But the college students may not enjoy having DD around. 

 

I don’t know anything but to actually obtain an AA you need to enroll, right? In which case, yes, she’d be a transfer. 

You can take all the credits you want but not enroll and still be a freshman, if I understand correctly. 

[Dmmetler]

DD is currently a degree seeking student at our local CC, while still registered as a homeschooler. Since our local CC is medically focused,  so biology is focused on humans, she’s majoring in psychology. What she really is interested in long-term is cognitive science, particularly animal cognition (and focused on reptiles and amphibians)-so both fields are useful to her, and neither is really an undergrad specialization. Whether she gets the degree will likely depend on where she decides to go to college. In-state, she can apply as a freshman even with the AS as long as she gets her high school diploma after her AS, because they would consider her the same as the kids who go to the middle college or early college high schools. Out of state or private....well, some schools would consider her a transfer student already since she has over 12 credits, some would consider her a transfer because of an AS, but not without one, and some would let her apply as a freshman. Many of the ones that would consider her a transfer actually have pretty good transfer scholarships. 

I really expect her to take 3-4 years for her BS whether she gets the AS or not. She has a lot she wants to investigate, and the schools that interest her the most so far are LACs that tend to encourage double and triple majoring or multiple minors.

In her case, the main reason for becoming degree seeking is that she wants a graduation ceremony that isn’t the local homeschool one. The required classes were mostly ones that she was interested in anyway or needed to take to tick high school boxes, and the electives were flexible enough that she could tick high school boxes as needed or take classes she wanted to take anyway.  If it turns out, as the college list is complied, that she would be better off applying with 65+ hours but not a degree, well, that’s easy to arrange. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Dmmetler2

[TracyP]

8 hours ago, madteaparty said:

I don’t know anything but to actually obtain an AA you need to enroll, right? In which case, yes, she’d be a transfer. 

You can take all the credits you want but not enroll and still be a freshman, if I understand correctly. 

This must vary by state/college. In my state you enroll in the CC whether you take one class or take enough classes to complete your AA. And either way you are able to enroll in a state university as a freshman. I'm 90% sure that applies to all private universities in my state as well, but I will double check if we go that route.

[Melissa B]

My eldest daughter had plenty of credits for her AA (could have chosen English, Advertising, Environmental Science,etc) but chose not to apply for the degree. She is currently working toward her BS/MS degree in Advertising and considering applying for minors in English and Sustainability.

My second daughter graduated high school with her AA in Theatre but is now working toward a BS in ASL Interpreting with minors in Spanish, Biology and possibly Chinese. 

My last two also have plans to get their AA while in high school. One is currently thinking an AA in something like sports medicine or possibly an AS in physical therapy. She is planning on medical school. My son is thinking an AA in architecture and then an advanced degree in some sort of architecture field.

All will enter university with their freshman status benefits, per state law. The universities of the first two honored the freshman benefits (and required freshman dorms first year) but listed them as upperclassmen from the start.

[madteaparty]

2 hours ago, TracyP said:

This must vary by state/college. In my state you enroll in the CC whether you take one class or take enough classes to complete your AA. And either way you are able to enroll in a state university as a freshman. I'm 90% sure that applies to all private universities in my state as well, but I will double check if we go that route.

We skipped community college bc for the classes DS would’ve taken there, we decided it would be better for him to be with age peers at a local private. But at the public 4 year, he can only take 24 credits as an unmatriculated student. After that, he’d have to matriculate, which he won’t.  

Crazyforlatin I will pm you on sth else. 

[Lori D.]

22 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

Does getting an AA degree mean that she will be considered a transfer student? 

If any of the credits for the AA degree were taken *after* high school graduation, yes, the student will automatically be considered a transfer student rather than an incoming freshman.

If the AA degree was completely earned as dual enrollment and prior to high school graduation, then it totally depends on the future 4-year university. Some accept the student with an AA degree AND unlimited dual enrollment credits. Often there is an articulation agreement between a community college and universities in the same area or same state, so that earning an AA degree through taking specific credits allows all of those credits to transfer to the university, and the student still comes in as a freshman.

Some accept unlimited credits, but NOT an AA degree, as their policy is to allow unlimited credits for freshman eligibility, but count the AA degree holder as a transfer student. Some limit total credits accepted to 60, or 24, or even as few as just 12 credits, and if the student earns more dual enrollment credits than that, the student is considered a transfer student rather than a freshman.

Note: for some universities, the total transfer credit limit *includes* not only all dual enrollment credits, but also all credits earned through credit by exam options (AP tests and/or CLEP tests). So if you are also looking into AP and/or CLEP, you will need to research the total credit limit policy of each possible future university, AND also research which AP and CLEP tests are accepted as credit towards a degree, and which are just accepted as "elective" credits.

CA has very different regulations for homeschoolers and dual enrollment, so you'll need to research what category taking the CHSPE puts you in, both for CA universities, but also for universities in other states, in case your student ends up applying and attending out of state.
 

16 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

As a matter fact I think I did read about that here - take science courses at university, not at CC...

Yes, since your student is considering a medical field degree, you'll also want to look into whether or not it is advisable to take college level Science courses as dual enrollment, as many university programs frown on those credits having been taken at a community college.
 

16 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

...We probably will take a couple of science classes at CC for H.S. purposes but not to transfer those same credits to college. I don't know the quality of our impacted CC...

What you're mentioning here is the difference between "dual credit" and "dual enrollment". Dual enrollment means enrolled in 2 school options simultaneously. Dual credit means receiving both college AND high school credit for the same dual enrolled course. You'll also want to check whether the future universities make that determination for themselves or if you do. Often it is up to the university's registrar office as to what credits they accept as transfer college credits, and not up to you, even if you mark some of your credits on your homeschool transcript as NOT taken for dual credit, but counting it just as high school credit. All of your dual enrolled courses WILL show up on the community college transcript, which MUST also be sent in when applying to the university for admission.

What will help is if your student takes the intro science courses that are for non-majors, as was mentioned up-thread. Or, takes classes that have a course number that is under 100 (example: 094, rather than 101). Courses with a number designation below 100 are below college level, and so they are *never* granted dual credit.
 

16 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

...Has anyone here gotten an AA degree and worked in that AA field during college summers?

Perhaps it is different in my state, but our state community colleges offer 2 kinds of Associate degrees: AA (or AS) and AAS . Here, an "AA" or "AS" degree stands for "Associate of Arts" or "Associate of Science", and it is the "degree for transfer." The AA or AS is composed of gen. ed. courses and intro courses directly transferable to 4-year university Bachelor degree in either the Humanities/Arts (AA) or Science (AS) field. It does not qualify a student to work in any field because it is composed of gen. ed. credits -- NOT specialized or core concentration credits. For example, the AS (Associate of Science) offered through our community college system directly states: "What can you do with this degree? Transfer to a university in a life or physical sciences, computer science, or engineering program."

In contrast, the "AAS degree" stands for "Associate of Applied Science" which is the "degree to work". The AAS is mostly hands-on, core concentration courses and very few gen. ed courses, which does qualify a student to work in an occupational field because the student has been trained in the requisite areas (but has very few transferable credits towards a Bachelor degree). AAS degrees are all direct training for specific jobs; here are some in the medical field: dental hygiene, diagnostic sonographer (sonogram tech), medical lab tech, occupational or physical therapy tech, radiology tech, respiratory care tech, veterinary tech. For example, the AAS for Medical Lab Tech directly states: "What can you do with this degree? Work in the clinical laboratory of a hospital, clinic, reference laboratory, blood bank, coroner's office or in biomedical research."

All that to say -- at least in my state, while an AA/AS degree will shorten the student's time at the university by knocking out the first 1-2 years of gen. ed. requirements in advance of transferring to a university to complete a 4-year Bachelor degree, it does not make you more qualified to work in the occupational field of the AA/AS degree.

Obviously, in a job interview if you explain you are working towards a medical degree and have taken science-based courses and have an AA/AS degree, all of those things are likely to make you more attractive to an employer. But they can't hire you on as anything higher than an entry level job, unless you have the education/training/experience for a higher position. And that is not what an AA/AS degree does.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

21 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

...Since we will be taking one class this summer (most likely statistics) and couple of classes in 9th grade, any suggestions as to what sort of classes that are easier to transition into?  

Page 5 of the pinned thread "High School Motherlode #2" has loads of links to past threads on lots of dual enrollment topics. Here are a few threads linked in that pinned thread that discuss transitioning into dual enrollment and good first classes for dual enrollment:

Dual Enrollment - getting started
Here is a bit of advice about Community College classes (when/what to take; record keeping; transferring; + more topics) -- May 16 2012, Nan in Mass
Preparing for Community College science courses, dual enrollment (how to prepare for dual enrollment) -- Apr 17 2010, Pegasus
Dual Enrollment study (how to study/do DE -- tips & experience) — Oct 1 2017, Plum Crazy

Dual Enrollment - recommended classes
Good first class to dual enroll in?— Mar 9 2018, Calming Tea
First dual enrollment class (suggestions, and why) -- Feb 26 2016, Reefgazer
Dual Credit -- which classes? -- Apr 29 2012, crimsonkelley

[...................]

My son is doing this. It has pros and cons.  He is not heading into medical but computer science.

First of all, your dd would NOT want to get an AA.  EVERY SINGLE UC recommends that STEM students call them directly, and combined with Assist, take the proper prerequisites.  For STEM majors, they do not even need things like PE, foreign language, or communications. (at all, ever, not even when they get to the UC). So your dd would be wasting a lot of time and money getting an AA.

The CHSPE is very easy.  Any very academic 9th grader should pass.

I still don't really recommend this approach and if I could go back I am not sure I would re-do this with my son. Instead I would sign him up for as many concurrent enrollment courses as possible.  The reason is, that now that the time has almost come, he really doesn't want to go in as a transfer.  He is a little tired of being the only teenager around, and he really desires to start college on the same footing as everyone else.  He doesn't like the idea that he will be rushed into and through college and then straight into a career by 19 years old. Even though he loves our highly ranked community college and has had a good time with many teachers and students and really bloomed there, getting to know people and having acquaintences to study with etc. ....he is tired of commuting back and forth every day (rush hour traffic gets involved every morning and one night per week)...

He is applying to private universities as a freshman because that is what they want and what he wants, even though he has 60 community college credits.  At this point, I think his desire to go to UC is completely soured by the fact that he just does not want to go as a transfer student and be rushed through his entire adult life.

FYI ALL of the private universities said that they would consult with him over the summer, if he is admitted and chooses to attend, and they will place him in higher courses, but he would still be a freshman.  Some offered him to do a double major and they would take his credits.  Some said they would not accept his credits (Ivy League) but that they would make sure he is placed ahead or offered a minor or double major.

We were encouraged to take this approach by our umbrella school person and while I appreciate her knowing my son was capable and that he has been challenged and blossomed, I don't think this approach is necessarily age appropriate.  I think it's better to just take concurrent classes (as much and as many as the CC allows) and online AP courses for the rest, and just be a regular homeschooler.

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Calming Tea

[...................]

Just adding for this and other reasons we will not be taking this approach with our dd, and I do not recommend it.  I think your student can be truly challenged by taking concurrent courses and online AP courses, and still remain in the age group sphere that she belongs.

[...................]

Adding one more thing...at 15 we all, including my son, thought it would be the greatest idea in the world to save money, get him into and through UC sooner, and be done with the whole college thing...but after two years of rushing his life way ahead of where it would have otherwise been, we all including my son, feel VERY differently about it now.  So just be aware that you're making a decision that will very much affect her life, pretty early.  Kids change a lot and I'm just a very lucky mom that my son has been able to voice his feelings.  Not every kid would.  Many will just keep on going and then burn out later and never say a word.

And you'd be surprised how a person feels at 15 and 18 can change, and also how burnt out someone can get from rushing their life ahead.  My son is not burnt out thank God 

(He may still end up going to the UC as a transfer, but I'd be surprised. I think if he gets any possible scenario we can afford from the Private Us he will go that route.)

[Lori D.]

14 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

Adding one more thing...at 15 we all, including my son, thought it would be the greatest idea in the world to save money, get him into and through UC sooner, and be done with the whole college thing...but after two years of rushing his life way ahead of where it would have otherwise been, we all including my son, feel VERY differently about it now.  So just be aware that you're making a decision that will very much affect her life, pretty early.  Kids change a lot and I'm just a very lucky mom that my son has been able to voice his feelings.  Not every kid would.  Many will just keep on going and then burn out later and never say a word.

And you'd be surprised how a person feels at 15 and 18 can change, and also how burnt out someone can get from rushing their life ahead.  My son is not burnt out thank God...

Excellent points!

Burn out is REAL, and happens for a variety of reasons:
- anxiety over dual enrollment grades "count" and are "forever" (part of the permanent college transcript)
- too many high rigor courses (AP, dual enrollment)
- too much test prep and repeated testing
- juggling part time work and high school
- too many activities (sports can be very time consuming)
- student fear of disappointing parents by expressing a need to slow the pace or get off the high performance track
- generally overloaded schedule with no down time or time to just hang out with family/friends or fiddle around with personal interests

A lot of college freshmen/sophomores are dropping out of school due to burn out -- they pushed (or *were pushed*) too hard in high school to get to college, to score high for scholarships, etc., and the tank is now empty before they can finish college. A good and realistic caution to not get so caught up in the financial worries about college, or fears about "will my homeschooler even get into college" that we lose sight of healthy balance and burn out our kids.

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Lori D.

[...................]

Yep, how my son has handled it this year was to drop basically everything but school.  Thankfully his bff talks to him online all the time and he has another friend that talks online all the time...

But he basically comes home Thursday, and stays in his comfy clothes all weekend catching up on his work a bit but mostly just relaxing, reading, enjoying home life and down time.  I'm glad he knows how to relax ! ? But many kids would not allow themselves that "luxury" and just keep on going.  

[Matryoshka]

57 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

Adding one more thing...at 15 we all, including my son, thought it would be the greatest idea in the world to save money, get him into and through UC sooner, and be done with the whole college thing...but after two years of rushing his life way ahead of where it would have otherwise been, we all including my son, feel VERY differently about it now.  So just be aware that you're making a decision that will very much affect her life, pretty early.  Kids change a lot and I'm just a very lucky mom that my son has been able to voice his feelings.  Not every kid would.  Many will just keep on going and then burn out later and never say a word.

And you'd be surprised how a person feels at 15 and 18 can change, and also how burnt out someone can get from rushing their life ahead.  My son is not burnt out thank God 

(He may still end up going to the UC as a transfer, but I'd be surprised. I think if he gets any possible scenario we can afford from the Private Us he will go that route.)

The change between 15 and 18 can go both ways!  My dd started CC classes at 15 with no intention of getting an AS.  She started out taking stuff a couple classes at a time for regular high school courses.  Then she started seeing other stuff that interested her.  Then she decided she wanted not just to take Graphic Design classes, but get an AS in it and transfer and get her Bachelor's in something Business - likely Marketing.  That would have taken 3-4 years anyway since those AS classes wouldn't check off all the boxes for what she'd need for a different 4-year degree - mostly still just GenEds.  She took a couple of intro Business courses to see what it was like.  She loved those classes and also realized that she didn't like 'customers' having the final say on her designs - so she decided just to go for a Business AS.  With that change, she not only gets automatic entry to the Business program at State U, but will be able to finish in 2 more years - if that's what she wants.  But this kid, more and more, wants to be done with school.  She likes working and has been working at least 1-2 jobs since she was 15 as well.  She's not interested in exploring lots of different subjects.  She just wants out.  She is thrilled with this plan - it is her plan, not mine.

She honestly hasn't felt rushed at all - maybe because she started out with CC so early?  She took 2 classes/sem, then 3, and is only now up to 4.  She has had tons of free time to play video games, see friends, and have at least one job the whole time.

That could change again, but if she wants to take an extra year at the 4-year, that's okay.  Just because she's transferring as a junior instead of a freshman with junior standing (what she'd have if she went that route) doesn't mean she has to finish in two years, any more than there's a requirement that freshmen finish in four.

My older dd also took CC classes, but never got an AA or AS, nor did she even consider it.  For her interests/inclinations it wouldn't have made any sense.  Different kids, different paths up the mountain...

Edited October 20, 2018 by Matryoshka

[chiguirre]

You need to read the rules carefully for how they handle DE credits. TX public universities will give you credit for the classes you've taken IF you request it. If you don't fill out the paperwork, you don't get the credit. They also don't force you to graduate when you hit 120 credits (or 150 for accounting). You can get in-state tuition for up to 180 credits and currently the DE credits don't count against that limit because they were taken in high school (they're treated like AP or CLEP or SAT II credits). So, for us, there's no downside to using the CC during high school except the permanent record of the grades. But, obviously this varies by state so you need to carefully read the websites of the schools your child is most likely to attend and understand their policies. Another thing to look at is any local early (or sometimes they're called middle) college high schools. They're a great source for DE policies at your local CC and local universities because that's what they specialize in.

[...................]

6 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

The change between 15 and 18 can go both ways!  My dd started CC classes at 15 with no intention of getting an AS.  She started out taking stuff a couple classes at a time for regular high school courses.  Then she started seeing other stuff that interested her.  Then she decided she wanted not just to take Graphic Design classes, but get an AS in it and transfer and get her Bachelor's in something Business - likely Marketing.  That would have taken 3-4 years anyway since those AS classes wouldn't check off all the boxes for what she'd need for a different 4-year degree - mostly still just GenEds.  She took a couple of intro Business courses to see what it was like.  She loved those classes and also realized that she didn't like 'customers' having the final say on her designs - so she decided just to go for a Business AS.  With that change, she not only gets automatic entry to the Business program at State U, but will be able to finish in 2 more years - if that's what she wants.  But this kid, more and more, wants to be done with school.  She likes working and has been working at least 1-2 jobs since she was 15 as well.  She's not interested in exploring lots of different subjects.  She just wants out.  She is thrilled with this plan - it is her plan, not mine.

She honestly hasn't felt rushed at all - maybe because she started out with CC so early?  She took 2 classes/sem, then 3, and is only now up to 4.  She has had tons of free time to play video games, see friends, and have at least one job the whole time.

That could change again, but if she wants to take an extra year at the 4-year, that's okay.  Just because she's transferring as a junior instead of a freshman with junior standing (what she'd have if she went that route) doesn't mean she has to finish in two years, any more than there's a requirement that freshmen finish in four.

My older dd also took CC classes, but never got an AA or AS, nor did she even consider it.  For her interests/inclinations it wouldn't have made any sense.  Different kids, different paths up the mountain...

 

This is why I’m encouraging Op to dual enroll and see where it goes, rather than take the chspe and go full time. ? this keeps her daughter in her own sphere while working ahead anyway. 

What I am warning against is putting her dd on the fast track with no turning back which is essentially what we did. He can’t apply to UC as a freshman now because of the way we did things. Luckily he can still apply to private’s as a freshman. 

Just keep all your options open and realize that your kid can only be young once. Very few kids actually want to start their adult life at 19 without any time to enjoy college classes, study abroad, internships etc.   

[crazyforlatin]

1 hour ago, Calming Tea said:

 

This is why I’m encouraging Op to dual enroll and see where it goes, rather than take the chspe and go full time. ? this keeps her daughter in her own sphere while working ahead anyway. 

What I am warning against is putting her dd on the fast track with no turning back which is essentially what we did. He can’t apply to UC as a freshman now because of the way we did things. Luckily he can still apply to private’s as a freshman. 

Just keep all your options open and realize that your kid can only be young once. Very few kids actually want to start their adult life at 19 without any time to enjoy college classes, study abroad, internships etc.   

 

For our local CC, Dd will have to take the CHPSE in order to take classes before 16 years old. I don't think she will be taking a full load of classes, just a couple per year. If I were to drive farther, she could start at 14 years old without taking the CHPSE, but I prefer to keep these classes closer to home.

[crazyforlatin]

10 hours ago, Lori D. said:

If any of the credits for the AA degree were taken *after* high school graduation, yes, the student will automatically be considered a transfer student rather than an incoming freshman.

If the AA degree was completely earned as dual enrollment and prior to high school graduation, then it totally depends on the future 4-year university. Some accept the student with an AA degree AND unlimited dual enrollment credits. Often there is an articulation agreement between a community college and universities in the same area or same state, so that earning an AA degree through taking specific credits allows all of those credits to transfer to the university, and the student still comes in as a freshman.

Some accept unlimited credits, but NOT an AA degree, as their policy is to allow unlimited credits for freshman eligibility, but count the AA degree holder as a transfer student. Some limit total credits accepted to 60, or 24, or even as few as just 12 credits, and if the student earns more dual enrollment credits than that, the student is considered a transfer student rather than a freshman.

Note: for some universities, the total transfer credit limit *includes* not only all dual enrollment credits, but also all credits earned through credit by exam options (AP tests and/or CLEP tests). So if you are also looking into AP and/or CLEP, you will need to research the total credit limit policy of each possible future university, AND also research which AP and CLEP tests are accepted as credit towards a degree, and which are just accepted as "elective" credits.

CA has very different regulations for homeschoolers and dual enrollment, so you'll need to research what category taking the CHSPE puts you in, both for CA universities, but also for universities in other states, in case your student ends up applying and attending out of state.
 

Yes, since your student is considering a medical field degree, you'll also want to look into whether or not it is advisable to take college level Science courses as dual enrollment, as many university programs frown on those credits having been taken at a community college.
 

What you're mentioning here is the difference between "dual credit" and "dual enrollment". Dual enrollment means enrolled in 2 school options simultaneously. Dual credit means receiving both college AND high school credit for the same dual enrolled course. You'll also want to check whether the future universities make that determination for themselves or if you do. Often it is up to the university's registrar office as to what credits they accept as transfer college credits, and not up to you, even if you mark some of your credits on your homeschool transcript as NOT taken for dual credit, but counting it just as high school credit. All of your dual enrolled courses WILL show up on the community college transcript, which MUST also be sent in when applying to the university for admission.

What will help is if your student takes the intro science courses that are for non-majors, as was mentioned up-thread. Or, takes classes that have a course number that is under 100 (example: 094, rather than 101). Courses with a number designation below 100 are below college level, and so they are *never* granted dual credit.
 

Perhaps it is different in my state, but our state community colleges offer 2 kinds of Associate degrees: AA (or AS) and AAS . Here, an "AA" or "AS" degree stands for "Associate of Arts" or "Associate of Science", and it is the "degree for transfer." The AA or AS is composed of gen. ed. courses and intro courses directly transferable to 4-year university Bachelor degree in either the Humanities/Arts (AA) or Science (AS) field. It does not qualify a student to work in any field because it is composed of gen. ed. credits -- NOT specialized or core concentration credits. For example, the AS (Associate of Science) offered through our community college system directly states: "What can you do with this degree? Transfer to a university in a life or physical sciences, computer science, or engineering program."

In contrast, the "AAS degree" stands for "Associate of Applied Science" which is the "degree to work". The AAS is mostly hands-on, core concentration courses and very few gen. ed courses, which does qualify a student to work in an occupational field because the student has been trained in the requisite areas (but has very few transferable credits towards a Bachelor degree). AAS degrees are all direct training for specific jobs; here are some in the medical field: dental hygiene, diagnostic sonographer (sonogram tech), medical lab tech, occupational or physical therapy tech, radiology tech, respiratory care tech, veterinary tech. For example, the AAS for Medical Lab Tech directly states: "What can you do with this degree? Work in the clinical laboratory of a hospital, clinic, reference laboratory, blood bank, coroner's office or in biomedical research."

All that to say -- at least in my state, while an AA/AS degree will shorten the student's time at the university by knocking out the first 1-2 years of gen. ed. requirements in advance of transferring to a university to complete a 4-year Bachelor degree, it does not make you more qualified to work in the occupational field of the AA/AS degree.

Obviously, in a job interview if you explain you are working towards a medical degree and have taken science-based courses and have an AA/AS degree, all of those things are likely to make you more attractive to an employer. But they can't hire you on as anything higher than an entry level job, unless you have the education/training/experience for a higher position. And that is not what an AA/AS degree does.

 

10 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Page 5 of the pinned thread "High School Motherlode #2" has loads of links to past threads on lots of dual enrollment topics. Here are a few threads linked in that pinned thread that discuss transitioning into dual enrollment and good first classes for dual enrollment:

Dual Enrollment - getting started
Here is a bit of advice about Community College classes (when/what to take; record keeping; transferring; + more topics) -- May 16 2012, Nan in Mass
Preparing for Community College science courses, dual enrollment (how to prepare for dual enrollment) -- Apr 17 2010, Pegasus
Dual Enrollment study (how to study/do DE -- tips & experience) — Oct 1 2017, Plum Crazy

Dual Enrollment - recommended classes
Good first class to dual enroll in?— Mar 9 2018, Calming Tea
First dual enrollment class (suggestions, and why) -- Feb 26 2016, Reefgazer
Dual Credit -- which classes? -- Apr 29 2012, crimsonkelley

 

Thanks so much, Lori, I’m going through all your links. Good point about taking Intro science classes for non-majors. Dd does want to take a couple of math classes especially since her non-homeschool friends will now be joining her. 

[madteaparty]

On 10/19/2018 at 5:15 PM, crazyforlatin said:

 

That's a great idea! I was going to do all science courses at CC, starting with biology in 9th grade, but college biology is probably going to be overwhelming. 

They may have rules about a kid that young in the lab, too. 

[madteaparty]

The permanent record of grades is a real issue too. Ds has a class now where the prof just will not give him an A no matter what dS does. It’s a really bizarre situation and really too bad DS has to learn about this at 14, but life lesson I guess. Thankfully Ds looks about “college sized” now so his age will never come up again. 

You have to watch carefully the departments your student will be in. Some are small, not well respected even at a 4-year, and you end up with someone with a chip on their shoulder who not only will grade your kid but also provide a recommendation. See my PM about that other student...mostly, our experience (and that other student’s) has been positive. But it just takes one grade to mess up a college transcript when DS can only take 24 credits at this institution. So we will have to live with those consequences now and it’s too bad because he literally did nothing wrong. 

Edited October 21, 2018 by madteaparty

[Kassia]

46 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

They may have rules about a kid that young in the lab, too. 

 

Our CC doesn't have age restrictions that I know of.  Dd took chem lab at 15 and it wasn't an issue.

 

27 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

The permanent record of grades is a real issue too. Ds has a class now where the prof just will not give him an A no matter what dS does. It’s a really bizarre situation and really too bad DS has to learn about this at 14, but life lesson I guess.

 So we will have to live with those consequences now and it’s too bad because he literally did nothing wrong. 

 

How frustrating.  I'm sorry.  We've had to deal with teachers and professors like that but not at 14.  

[chiguirre]

2 hours ago, madteaparty said:

The permanent record of grades is a real issue too. Ds has a class now where the prof just will not give him an A no matter what dS does. It’s a really bizarre situation and really too bad DS has to learn about this at 14, but life lesson I guess. Thankfully Ds looks about “college sized” now so his age will never come up again. 

You have to watch carefully the departments your student will be in. Some are small, not well respected even at a 4-year, and you end up with someone with a chip on their shoulder who not only will grade your kid but also provide a recommendation. See my PM about that other student...mostly, our experience (and that other student’s) has been positive. But it just takes one grade to mess up a college transcript when DS can only take 24 credits at this institution. So we will have to live with those consequences now and it’s too bad because he literally did nothing wrong. 

What's your withdrawal date? Ours is Nov. 12. It will appear on the transcript, but it's better than a C because it doesn't count in the GPA. If you do go this route, I'd try to enroll him in the same class at another school or with another professor to show his ability to handle the material.

[madteaparty]

31 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

What's your withdrawal date? Ours is Nov. 12. It will appear on the transcript, but it's better than a C because it doesn't count in the GPA. If you do go this route, I'd try to enroll him in the same class at another school or with another professor to show his ability to handle the material.

He doesn’t want to withdraw, I’m learning he says ?. It’s kind of heartbreaking.

i may convince him to do Pass/fail instead. But then if he ends up with an B+ or even A- in the class, what a waste. Ugh. There’s no exact equivalent of this upper level course...

(I’m sorry OP to derail)

Edited October 21, 2018 by madteaparty

[HollyDay]

Not dual high school cc, but oldest dd graduated with AA and transferred to her university of choice.  She had 60 credits, min required to get an AA,  transfer (university did not accept 3 elective credits).  60 credits = junior year.  30-59 credits= sophomore. 0-29= freshman

Not sure of other states and/or institutions but our local colleges require 60 for AA/AS.  42 for core complete. 

[amyx4]

One of my teens did earn an AA during high school. It was not something that was ever a goal . It was a decision that we made late in the spring of senior year. My teen was only the second dual enrollment student that had done it at that CC. I went and found the first student's mom and ask her a ton of questions.

I think earning an AA during high school is a very local question. I would suggest finding another parent in your area. For example, my teen chose not to take Calc I & Calc II at the local CC. Instead, he took Calc I & II at the StateU with their dual enrollment program. That ended up being a good piece of advice.

Edited October 21, 2018 by amyx4

[crazyforlatin]

11 hours ago, madteaparty said:

He doesn’t want to withdraw, I’m learning he says ?. It’s kind of heartbreaking.

i may convince him to do Pass/fail instead. But then if he ends up with an B+ or even A- in the class, what a waste. Ugh. There’s no exact equivalent of this upper level course...

(I’m sorry OP to derail)

 

No worries about derailing, it's something that is a concern for me as well - just the grades being on the college transcript. I was just asking a college student who is at a private university but takes summer courses at CC (cheaper) about courses he has taken. One that he recommends is Asian History which requires a lot of reading (fine with that) and 2-3 essays (5 paragraphs which DD can handle). That doesn't seem like a lot of work for a college class, right? I'm going to make more of an effort to ask CC kids, if I can find them.

[madteaparty]

5 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

 

No worries about derailing, it's something that is a concern for me as well - just the grades being on the college transcript. I was just asking a college student who is at a private university but takes summer courses at CC (cheaper) about courses he has taken. One that he recommends is Asian History which requires a lot of reading (fine with that) and 2-3 essays (5 paragraphs which DD can handle). That doesn't seem like a lot of work for a college class, right? I'm going to make more of an effort to ask CC kids, if I can find them.

Well if she has done CLRC great books the reading for that Asian history class would probably be about half what’s assigned in great books ? . On a more serious note, IME there’s a vast vast difference between gen ed classes and classes taken by majors. The former are usually curved, anyway. All these things im sure seem obvious to everyone and I’m just learning as I go, I guess. I’m also sure this all varies by location much like the AA discussion which is sort of eyeopening to me in terms of the huge variation. 

we started with foreign languages, like recommended upthread. These if done right have many many opportunities for grading, and it’s not high stakes, 2 exams, 2 papers, like other classes.

i have a different sort of kid than yours but again, start with one class only and don’t overload the semester with (say) 15 other APs. I LOVE that college classes are one semester and done. But it’s an intense semester...

[Beth in SW WA]

Older dd received AA from CC & WA state diploma simultaneously. She enrolled at UW as a junior at age 18 but opted to double major, add a minor and study abroad. Looking down the road at master's programs currently as she's finishing up senior year. She's in no hurry to leave academia, it would appear. ?

Dd15 is full-time CC and working toward pre-Nursing AA. She will hopefully receive direct-admit to dream BSN program. If not, she'll apply as freshman to many nursing schools and see what happens. She's pursuing BSN and eventually DNP so she's in no hurry as well.

I'm only familiar with the way WA and OR handle CC credits. I do know that east coast schools were not impressed with CC credits a few years ago when older dd was applying. They told us they preferred IB and AP.

Hope that helps ?

[melmichigan]

I have three children in the local middle college program.  My oldest graduates this year and I will graduate her from high school on the same day she graduates with her AS (which is how they do it for kids that earn their high school diploma from the middle college).  She wants to attend MSU, as they are ranked 6th in the world for her major, so we follow their policy.  She can apply (this year or in future years) as a freshman as long as she doesn't apply to any colleges or take any classes between her graduation date and her application acceptance.  They will then transfer in her college credits.  

[Lori D.]

6 hours ago, Beth in SW WA said:

 

Beth! So good to "see" you again on these boards! ?

[SeaConquest]

Sacha is a few years away, but if he stays on his current trajectory, he will start DE at the CC in 7th grade (age 12/13). He would have to take the CHPSE to enroll at most of the CCs in our area, due to age restrictions. I haven't found a charter that will let him take the CHPSE at that age and still let him graduate when he is 18, so we will probably have to file a PSA starting when he DEs. He is a STEM kid, but it is really important IMHO for him to have a broad humanities background. So, we have been looking at him completing an AA in Humanities through Foothill College (he can do this online from San Diego), which has a very well-respected humanities program. He will likely take major science classes at the local UC vs the CC (since he has an interest in physics and genetics at present). Neither taking the CHPSE, nor receiving an AA/AS, would automatically exclude him from beginning college as a freshman when he is 18 (whether at a UC or at the selective privates to which I have inquired about it).

I prefer him to DE vs AP online because it is cheaper to DE in CA, and because ASSIST makes it very clear which courses will transfer for credit. Also, the thought of doing upper level science labs at home gives me the heebie jeebies.