Adult child with misplaced priorities

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Also got the grades for one class = destiny message.

it can certainly affect what university to which you'll be able to transfer.

the one you want, or one farther away that doesn't have as good of a rep . . . .

2ds is planning on retaking a class (he's using it to meet an elective requirement) he took back when he didn't care as much about school.  not for his bachelor degree, but because of how it could affect him going to the grad school he would like to attend.

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

those of us posting - are doing so from experience.  my son's did the cc route to a four-year degree. (so they're current.)

even in the cc - there are grade requirements.  there are sequenced classes for required subjects, and minimum grades required to take the next class in the sequence.  don't make the grade - you don't get to take the class.  sure you can retake the class - but it's still on your gpa.  

want to transfer to that four-year state school, there are gpa requirements.  the more applicants for the limited number of seats, the more requirements the uni can, and will, require - because there ARE a *limited number of seats*.  if you don't meet that gpa requirement of that four-year, don't bother applying.  that "minimum gpa",  is often lower than the lowest they're actually accepting because of sheer volume of applicants.

then if they want to go to grad school . . . . . .

All of that can be true AND there are many, many students who manage, with less than this ideal, to go on to grad school, even less competitive ones (or not), and lead happy, successful lives. Grades are not THE END, and especially not a single semester at a CC on a non-STEM track. There are lots of assumptions inherent in this long if...then... when it’s really not that cut and dried. A lot depends on the classes being taken, the aptitude of the student, the flexibility of the instructor and the student’s own preferences and priorities. They’re not wrong because they’re different.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Sneezyone

[gardenmom5]

2 minutes ago, moonflower said:

What came across to me (and I agree with Scarlett in this case) is an idea that college is so important to your future that missing two weeks and potentially getting bad grades, or having to take an extra year, or even not being able to finish college and having to get a non-college job instead (or getting married, or etc.) would be just really the worst thing possible.  

But to people who haven't gone to college and have pretty decent lives anyway, or whose husbands didn't go to college and still have decent lives, it seems a bit snobbish.

 

Like, OMG, she would miss two weeks of school!  and might graduate later or not get to go back to grad school later in life in the program she wants!  I get that college is that important in many people's lives, but there are some people for whom it is not as important, for whatever reason, and suggesting that it's not that you have a biased perspective but that your perspective is the only correct one so there can't be any inherent bias because you're just right is kind of the definition of snobbery.

having to take an extra year is not remotely as much of a potential issue as missing classes that pull down grades.

I'd be less concerned with taking the semester off, than blowing off the first couple weeks.

[Reefgazer]

12 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It very much seemed implied in the message that under no circumstances should one come to the aid of a mere friend at the expense of grades. Because grades=destiny.

Grades impact destiny, and in this case, there is more than one way to help without it negatively impacting destiny.  Some suggestions were:  Purchase meal service/maid service for mom, come home earlier, pack in freezer meals and offer cleaning, or just not sign up for a semester of commitments she can't keep.  It doesn't have to be either-or with careful planning and thought.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Reefgazer said:

Grades impact destiny, and in this case, there is more than one way to help without it negatively impacting destiny.  Some suggestions were:  Purchase meal service/maid service for mom, come home earlier, pack in freezer meals and offer cleaning, or just not sign up for a semester of commitments she can't keep.  It doesn't have to be either-or with careful planning and thought.

 

YMMV. My experience informs my thinking just as I’m sure yours does for you. I don’t feel disadvantaged in any way by some of my questionable academic choices.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

I guess it was kind of implied that college is at least somewhat important to the OP's family because, ya know, her DD is actually in college and was questioning her decision.  I know, for me, I was basing my replies off of that assumption because the alternative (that college wasn't important) didn't seem likely.  It seems as though most other people who replied also thought college was important and were giving their experiences/advice.  That's not exactly snobbery.

 

It’s not black and white, either or. Both things can be important and, at any given time, one may have a higher or lower priority than the other.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

Of course, and I think the range of replies even from those that obviously think college is important reflects that.  But it's not snobbery to continue basing a conversation on the assumption that "college is important" without being told otherwise.

No, but it is a bit narrow to base replies on the idea that college is the only or primary thing of importance, as tho relationships could never rise to that level.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Sneezyone

[Frances]

11 hours ago, regentrude said:

Seriously? Grad programs where you are only required to work 9 to 5 on week days??? IME, grad programs are nothing like a job; they require much longer work hours and weekend work and make a full time job look like a vacation 

I think there’s even more variation in grad programs than undergrad ones. Mine and my husband’s doctoral programs in STEM fields were like you describe. But I’ve had friends complete professional Master’s degrees, sometimes mainly online, while working full-time and raising kids. And my sister used to teach a class for a weekend Master’s of Education program that she said had appallingly low requirements and standards.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I am not going to go back through the thread.  It actually upsets me.  But the idea that college is soooooooo important and/ or that some colleges have such high standards one can't possibly recover from a screwup/life event/whatever.  

Actually, elite schools often allow much more room for error than community colleges or regional state schools. I worked for a summer in institutional research at Harvard before I started grad school. They would do everything possible to help a student eventually graduate, unless the student had committed a crime or been found guilty of academic or other violations. Their view was that if they had accepted the student, the student was capable of graduating, no matter how long it took or how many twists and turns.

[Catwoman]

21 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

I guess it was kind of implied that college is at least somewhat important to the OP's family because, ya know, her DD is actually in college and was questioning her decision.  I know, for me, I was basing my replies off of that assumption because the alternative (that college wasn't important) didn't seem likely.  It seems as though most other people who replied also thought college was important and were giving their experiences/advice.  That's not exactly snobbery.

 

15 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

Of course, and I think the range of replies even from those that obviously think college is important reflects that.  But it's not snobbery to continue basing a conversation on the assumption that "college is important" without being told otherwise.

 

Exactly.

The OP clearly thinks college is important, and her dd has career goals that require a college degree, so many of us were making our recommendations based on those two premises. None of us has said that everyone should go to college or that college is the only route to success. We have said that because it is important to the OP and her dd, the dd should think long and hard before she makes a choice that risks her grades or her continued enrollment at her college. That’s not academic snobbery. 

I wish Scarlett would have just clarified her meaning instead of sarcastically pretending we didn’t think she was educated enough to explain what she meant. I truly wanted to understand what she was thinking, and if she was so convinced that I (and several other people) didn’t understand her, maybe instead of being so dismissive, she should have explained herself so we could have tried to see her side of things. It’s not really fair of her to say that people don’t understand her, while she repeatedly refused to even try to explain herself.

 

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

We are only told that this girl is the DDs best friend (IIRC).  What we aren’t told is how long they’ve been best friends, whether the relationship is entirely healthy, and everything else that affects “importance”.  All relationships aren’t created equal and what a person might do for one good friend, they might not do for another.  So I don’t think anyone here has placed this relationship anywhere other than “neutral importance” or made any character assumptions about this girl (aside from when I basically called her a wimp).  If we were told she donated a kidney to the DD, I’m sure people would have factored that into their replies; the same as if we were told the OP didn’t think the relationship qualified for bestie status. The thread kept it at “the relationship if important...but what about THIS [college]?”

If the OP had wanted more nuanced replies, she could have given more backstory to this relationship.

 

The same way ppl factored into their replies that the young friend and her MIL don’t have a great relationship but she’s family so that’s good enough support? It just seemed very one-sided. There seemed to be a lot more scrutiny of the impact on school than the impact on the friend and friendship.

[gardenmom5]

one thing that I think is part of "the attitudes" that isn't as clear is the areas in which people live.

in hcol areas - a marketable college degree very much can mean the difference between a job that can comfortably support a family and struggling to make ends meet.

 

[Bootsie]

34 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

The same way ppl factored into their replies that the young friend and her MIL don’t have a great relationship but she’s family so that’s good enough support? It just seemed very one-sided. There seemed to be a lot more scrutiny of the impact on school than the impact on the friend and friendship.

I think there was this bias because the OP asked "How bad is it for her to miss so much school so early in the semester"?  

Posters were not reacting to the question "How will not going or leaving earlier than planned impact the friend?"  The question of "Which should be the priority?" was not asked either.  

I thought the OP was seeking information about the consequences of missing classes, which posters began giving.  Of course, there is not a one-size-fits-all answer to that question.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

All of that can be true AND there are many, many students who manage, with less than this ideal, to go on to grad school, even less competitive ones (or not), and lead happy, successful lives. Grades are not THE END, and especially not a single semester at a CC on a non-STEM track. There are lots of assumptions inherent in this long if...then... when it’s really not that cut and dried. A lot depends on the classes being taken, the aptitude of the student, the flexibility of the instructor and the student’s own preferences and priorities. They’re not wrong because they’re different.

oh my   . . . . yes, they can hold back even a non-stem track.

2ds is retaking a class he took at the cc to bring up his gpa for his grad school applications.  he's not a stem major - he's an accountant.

[Katy]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

oh my   . . . . yes, they can hold back even a non-stem track.

2ds is retaking a class he took at the cc to bring up his gpa for his grad school applications.  he's not a stem major - he's an accountant.

 

Total side post, but many people consider accounting & finance to be STEM or STEM-tangential. They're both practical math based courses of study that many universities require calculus and statistics for, even if these days most of the math is done by computer. They both lead directly to jobs that pay in excess of $60k in most areas of the country, possibly much more with grad school and a bit of work experience. Technically business, yes, but all the other benefits of STEM.

Not that I disagree with your post.  At some schools education is similar, with the track of classes laid out by semester, and a required order.  If odd semester courses are only offered in the fall, dropping one class might literally set someone back a whole year.

[gardenmom5]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

 

Total side post, but many people consider accounting & finance to be STEM or STEM-tangential. They're both practical math based courses of study that many universities require calculus and statistics for, even if these days most of the math is done by computer. They both lead directly to jobs that pay in excess of $60k in most areas of the country, possibly much more with grad school and a bit of work experience. Technically business, yes, but all the other benefits of STEM.

Not that I disagree with your post.  At some schools education is similar, with the track of classes laid out by semester, and a required order.  If odd semester courses are only offered in the fall, dropping one class might literally set someone back a whole year.

2dd had been in south america for an extended service opportunity before returning for fall semester her jr. year.  small school, smaller than some high schools.   she had to leave several weeks early to get back in time for school to start - becasue the classes were sequential - and you had to take the fall class before you could take the spring class.  so, if you missed the fall, you waited until the next fall to take the class.

it struck me as very funny 2dd didn't know what stem is . ... . .she's a chem major/bio minor with a pharmd  -all stem degrees.

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

 

Well, don't mind me.  It is probably because I am not educated that I can't explain myself properly.  Thank you for your patience  and  understanding. 

well fiddle-dee-dee . . .

I'm sorely lacking in "formal" education, and was a very poor student when I was younger.  I have never considered myself 'articulate' - frequently having had to ask for patience as I sought to explain myself and fumbled over my words.

so, by all means, please explain what was meant so there can be understanding . .  .

[DawnM]

7 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

It's way more egalitarian. Screw ups are likely to have more or less impact depending on course, rather than campus. 

I wouldn't want to miss a few weeks of any science or maths degree anywhere. A couple of weeks of teaching or arts ? It's not really devastating, no matter what university you attend.

I think you are suggesting my uni was crap, lol. It actually regularly wins awards for the quality of teaching and research ?  It sits pretty nicely in the worldwide rankings! (I just looked).

 

 

Oh goodness, NO, I am not suggesting it is crap, not sure how you got that from what I said, but I do se that you DO have rankings, that is what I was wondering. The way you made it sound was that you just go to any of your schools, and if you mess up, no big deal.  I am curious about this and if it is easy to get in, easy to stay in, and easy to finish.   From what you said, it sounded like it is far more laid back......

[DawnM]

8 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I am not going to go back through the thread.  It actually upsets me.  But the idea that college is soooooooo important and/ or that some colleges have such high standards one can't possibly recover from a screwup/life event/whatever.  

 

I think what some of us are concerned about is that this is not HER life event.  This is a friend.  This isn't even a family member.  At my job, if I take off for a funeral for anyone except an immediate family member, it isn't considered bereavement.  If my cousin, sister, or friend is having a baby, that isn't MY baby, and again, I can't get maternity time off.  I have to take personal leave, and if it happens to fall on a time when I am needed at work, I can't do it.  My uncle's funeral was during state testing.  I am in charge of testing.  I was told I was not allowed to go unless I wanted to be written up.  I did not go.

The POINT is, there are consequences.  If one is willing to accept the consequences, then so be it, but you must understand the consequences before you go forward.

 

[marbel]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

I think what some of us are concerned about is that this is not HER life event.  This is a friend.  This isn't even a family member.  At my job, if I take off for a funeral for anyone except an immediate family member, it isn't considered bereavement.  If my cousin, sister, or friend is having a baby, that isn't MY baby, and again, I can't get maternity time off.  I have to take personal leave, and if it happens to fall on a time when I am needed at work, I can't do it.  My uncle's funeral was during state testing.  I am in charge of testing.  I was told I was not allowed to go unless I wanted to be written up.  I did not go.

The POINT is, there are consequences.  If one is willing to accept the consequences, then so be it, but you must understand the consequences before you go forward.

 

Right.  The OP asked about potential consequences; people told of their experiences and knowledge about consequences. No one said "this is what will happen" but rather "this is what could/might happen."  

Others brought up the importance of OP's daughter being there because this is her best friend, and the friend doesn't have a good relationship with her MIL... that's not what the OP was asking about. Suggesting that it's no big deal to miss the first few weeks of classes because it isn't a rigorous STEM program, or classes in education programs are easy, or it's just a junior college (talk about academic snobbery!) is meaningless; we don't know anything about the program, it's requirements, the requirements of the transfer school.... 

Grades don't necessarily = destiny, but for some people, missing a semester, or ending up with poor grades for a semester, can seriously derail things. Maybe not for OP's daughter, but no one here knows that. Is spending time with a friend during labor/delivery (maybe, if the timing is right) who has family support already in place, worth the risk?  Only OP's daughter knows that. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by marbel

[Splash1]

I think it would depend on how good a student she is and schools policy for missing classes.  I'm old but when I went to college 1983-1987 i missed the first week of Spring semester every single year for the very important family spring break to visit grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. My parents took off two weeks every spring break.  It never occurred to me that I couldn't do that as well.  Some years it was harder than others to get up to speed but for the most part I did fine.  I just had to hit the ground running.  Sometimes I'd have friends pick up a syllabus for me so I could do all the reading on the weekend before I went to class.  Not saying this was a mature, responsible choice, just that it was possible to do this and still succeed.  

[QueenCat]

10 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

?

I do wish you would explain where you’re seeing the academic snobbery in this thread, though, because it looks like several other people are as confused about your comment as I am, and we are trying to understand what you mean. 

 

 

I was kind of wondering the same thing. I haven't seen any of that kind of thing.

[TechWife]

11 hours ago, Scarlett said:

No I do not think this is about only money. And what you described is pretty extreme.  Yes there are consequences to our choices.  Obviously.  

These aren’t extreme examples. This happens frequently. Universities need students who are going to meet requirements and graduate. They are institutions of learning. Retention rates and graduation rates are extremely important for continued state funding, donations, academic rigor and overall student success. They don’t kick people out for any old reason, but if a student isn’t willing or able to meet their academic standards, the university most certainly removes them to make room for a student who can and will. 

[catz]

14 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

 

The same way ppl factored into their replies that the young friend and her MIL don’t have a great relationship but she’s family so that’s good enough support? It just seemed very one-sided. There seemed to be a lot more scrutiny of the impact on school than the impact on the friend and friendship.

I don't think it's unusual for young brides to be uncomfortable or awkward with their new MIL.  We do know the MIL isn't so destructive that she's being kept away during the birth.  That tells me maybe they just don't know each other well and need to work on getting to know each other and laying down some clean boundaries.  This could be a huge bridge builder in their relationship.  I never really loved my inlaws until I had a baby and saw how much they adored and treasured their grandchildren.  They aren't perfect and I am not besties with them and we have had to lay down boundaries a few times.  But they are there for us in thick and thin and I trust them implicitly with our children and that relationship has definitely evolved over time.    I also thought OP also said this girl's mother was coming too?  Regardless, MIL is going to be there.  

The young adult going is 19, has not given birth, and didn't plan this trip well at all.  This was posted about on Aug 16 when her flight out is for Aug 20 (today).  The time to contact professors would have been before she registered for these classes.    Or to plan to do primarily online classes this semester.  Or to have a job lined up to take a semester off.  I would be absolutely fine with any of those choices for my kids if they were well planned.  I totally get kids this age don't always do things as mature adults.   I have an almost 18 year old.  I would not be ok with a young adult living in my home twiddling their thumbs for a full semester without a job to do this trip. The OP is the one who said the D's priorities are misplaced.  This doesn't mean the friendship isn't important or can't be prioritized too.  She could have easily gone to be with her over the holidays for a week or 2.  My son's CC is off for a month over the holidays into January.   The typical college semester is 16 weeks.  A typical college student is off of school 20 weeks a year.  

I have seen academic snobbery on this boards at times when it comes to particular curriculum or way of schooling or colleges of a certain name.  I have not at all seen that in our thread.  People are just sharing their experiences.  

Edited August 20, 2018 by FuzzyCatz

[QueenCat]

11 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

So you’re saying it’s academic snobbery because we are concerned about a young woman who is attending a junior college? 

All colleges have standards, and many of us were worried that extendedforecast’s dd might suffer some unfortunate consequences if she ends up with lower grades as a result of missing classes, or if she ends up losing an entire semester (and possibly more than one semester, depending on how classes are scheduled.) 

You may not view college as being important, but if this young woman wants to be a teacher, she NEEDS a college education. And her grades matter, because she will need to transfer to a four-year university when she finishes at the junior college, and if her grades are low, she may not be accepted into the school of her choice.

That’s not academic snobbery. That’s reality. And what you’re seeing as snobbery is what many of us see as being genuine concern for extendedforecast’s dd’s future.

 

Well said!

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Splash1 said:

I think it would depend on how good a student she is and schools policy for missing classes.  I'm old but when I went to college 1983-1987 i missed the first week of Spring semester every single year for the very important family spring break to visit grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. My parents took off two weeks every spring break.  It never occurred to me that I couldn't do that as well.  Some years it was harder than others to get up to speed but for the most part I did fine.  I just had to hit the ground running.  Sometimes I'd have friends pick up a syllabus for me so I could do all the reading on the weekend before I went to class.  Not saying this was a mature, responsible choice, just that it was possible to do this and still succeed.  

1dd was the student teachers would kill to get in their class.  EVERY subject was easy for her. (even advanced STEM - she's a classics major ONLY because she "liked language more".)  she did academic research "for fun". (one of those came up on the final.  made for a *very* easy final.- in college.)

I would not have supported her blowing off the first two weeks.

Edited August 20, 2018 by gardenmom5

[Bootsie]

3 hours ago, Splash1 said:

I think it would depend on how good a student she is and schools policy for missing classes.  I'm old but when I went to college 1983-1987 i missed the first week of Spring semester every single year for the very important family spring break to visit grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. My parents took off two weeks every spring break.  It never occurred to me that I couldn't do that as well.  Some years it was harder than others to get up to speed but for the most part I did fine.  I just had to hit the ground running.  Sometimes I'd have friends pick up a syllabus for me so I could do all the reading on the weekend before I went to class.  Not saying this was a mature, responsible choice, just that it was possible to do this and still succeed.  

I am a bit older than you and have been teaching at the college level since the mid-1980s.  I have sen some major shifts in these issues over that time.  In the 1980s I think there was more of an attitude of "the student is an adult making choices and is responsible for them."  This attitude has changed at many schools where the school or the professor is responsible for the student's success.  Society  has become concerned about students taking 6+ years to graduate, or spending years in school accumulating student debt, but no degree.  Universities are pressured to make sure that students are making academic progress (and face federal financial aid regulations).  Some state schools are under legislative pressure because they have a high number of registrations for courses (filling up the class so others cannot take it) and then the registered students do not finish the course, wasting taxpayer dollars.  Also, schools with NCAA sports have requirements they have to meet to ensure athletes are not passing courses that they never really take.  

Technology has also made a big difference.  You do not mention contacting your professors ahead of time asking about doing this.  Email has made it easy for students to send a message to their professors asking for "permission" to miss the class.  I often have students who are doing poorly in a class and when I point out their absences their response will be "But, I took responsibility for that and sent you my excuse before I missed" without realizing the consequences of their choices.  

 

[Pen]

11 minutes ago, jdahlquist said:

Technology has also made a big difference.  You do not mention contacting your professors ahead of time asking about doing this.  Email has made it easy for students to send a message to their professors asking for "permission" to miss the class.  I often have students who are doing poorly in a class and when I point out their absences their response will be "But, I took responsibility for that and sent you my excuse before I missed" without realizing the consequences of their choices

 

And @extendedforecast

This seems important with regard to the student sending emails to her professors prior to her departure to visit her friend. Her professors can presumably tell her if they will automatically fail her or take off points for missing the first week , but they won’t know whether she will be able to do well in the class, or at least no worse due to missing first week than if she is present  the first week. She could be a student who will find catching up easy,  or one who won’t. 

[katilac]

11 hours ago, StellaM said:

Also got the grades for one class = destiny message.

 

I'm not hearing that message, but, at any rate, it's not one class. It's four or five classes. Grades for one semester do not equal destiny for most students, either, but the OP asked about potential consequences and people told her. 

16 minutes ago, jdahlquist said:

I am a bit older than you and have been teaching at the college level since the mid-1980s.  I have seen some major shifts in these issues over that time.  

 

 

Yes, I think absences affecting grades is more common than many people think. 

I may have missed this, but is the friend aware of the missed classes? I know that I would hate for someone to miss school on my behalf! 

[vonfirmath]

On 8/19/2018 at 10:27 AM, gardenmom5 said:

two weeks???? There is no reason to do that *during* a term. absolutely zero. no sympathy at all.  dd got married during her last year of grad school.   the "honeymooon" - was after she graduated.   (what caused her the most trouble were the stress hives, which were out of her control . . . . )

and having a baby - you KNOW you're going to be nine months pg and delivering a baby during the term, and should have an idea about all the upheaval that causes - take the term off.  yes, I have friends who had babies when they were in college. 

if they're not held accountable - they don't' have to "THINK" about reality, planning, and consequences.  and it will end up biting them.

1dd is a manager - she's now encountering these types in the workplace, if they got hired, she ends up firing them.  if they think this is ok in college, they think it's ok in the workplace.  sure it may have damaged their education by taking longer, or losing financing, having to change schools, etc. - they will also hurt themselves by what job offers they'll receive.   but if they don't learn, it carries into the workplace, who can't afford to be "tolerant" of the nonsense, and they lose their job. 

 

 

I AGREE   ?

 

there are grad programs that very much are "like a job".  they go year round, they are 9 - 5, they are five days a week.  part of what they're doing is to get them in the mindset of "this is what working a job is like".

 

I got pregnant with my oldest when both my husband and I were taking classes. I was working full time and taking night classes -- I finished the spring semester (barely) but did not go back for the summer (due in August) because it turned out to be too much. My husband did take summer classes and gave the professor  a heads up we had a kiddo due X date. First baby, likely to go late. But he wanted him to know just in case it interfered.  And he was on the ball, on top of everything all summer.

Kiddo ended up being born on the date of a major test. ARGH. (Friday early morning) My husband had the homework due that day already done and emailed it in, let the professor know I was in labor and, since professor was okay with doing a makeup of the exam, was in his office Exactly on time to take that later that day (Friday) Obviously, if he'd just had a baby himself that would not have worked out so well.

[TechWife]

36 minutes ago, jdahlquist said:

Technology has also made a big difference.  You do not mention contacting your professors ahead of time asking about doing this.  Email has made it easy for students to send a message to their professors asking for "permission" to miss the class.  I often have students who are doing poorly in a class and when I point out their absences their response will be "But, I took responsibility for that and sent you my excuse before I missed" without realizing the consequences of their choices.  

 

Yes! There are often people who believe that when they notify a professor that they will be absent that professor is agreeing with them, or “excusing” their absence. That simply isn’t the case - it’s just a notification. Notifications do not eliminate responsibility. 

[Pen]

23 minutes ago, katilac said:

I may have missed this, but is the friend aware of the missed classes? I know that I would hate for someone to miss school on my behalf! 

 

I don’t think that was clear.

It also was not clear if the friend asked daughter to be there for the time period daughter arranged, or if that was primarily the daughter’s idea. 

There was a presumption made, I think, that having the daughter there was very important to the friend.  But we really don’t know how much they talked that through. 

We are assuming that friend is feeling grateful for daughter to be arriving soon. But it is possible that it could be an added difficulty for friend to be dealing with a houseguest. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Pen

[TechWife]

27 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

And @extendedforecast

This seems important with regard to the student sending emails to her professors prior to her departure to visit her friend. Her professors can presumably tell her if they will automatically fail her or take off points for missing the first week , but they won’t know whether she will be able to do well in the class, or at least no worse due to missing first week than if she is present  the first week. She could be a student who will find catching up easy,  or one who won’t. 

Her professors could also completely disregard the message and penalize her for missed days or assignments as well. They aren’t obligated to respond, the school policies can stand on their own. It’s likely any course specific attendance requirements will be mentioned in the first class period or as part of a syllabus, which is available on the first day of class (or on the computer system, but it doesn’t have to be up before the first day). 

[gardenmom5]

7 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

I got pregnant with my oldest when both my husband and I were taking classes. I was working full time and taking night classes -- I finished the spring semester (barely) but did not go back for the summer (due in August) because it turned out to be too much. My husband did take summer classes and gave the professor  a heads up we had a kiddo due X date. First baby, likely to go late. But he wanted him to know just in case it interfered.  And he was on the ball, on top of everything all summer.

Kiddo ended up being born on the date of a major test. ARGH. (Friday early morning) My husband had the homework due that day already done and emailed it in, let the professor know I was in labor and, since professor was okay with doing a makeup of the exam, was in his office Exactly on time to take that later that day (Friday) Obviously, if he'd just had a baby himself that would not have worked out so well.

I have a friend who had an induction.  it wasn't working, and her dr was getting ready to call it a day and send her home.  while there her dh got the message a verdict in a case he'd been arguing had been returned and he had to go back to court.  after he left - her labor started. . . . . he couldn't come back until court adjourned.

 

[Pen]

7 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Her professors could also completely disregard the message and penalize her for missed days or assignments as well. They aren’t obligated to respond, the school policies can stand on their own. It’s likely any course specific attendance requirements will be mentioned in the first class period or as part of a syllabus, which is available on the first day of class (or on the computer system, but it doesn’t have to be up before the first day). 

 

True. They may have things happening in their own lives and not even be available to respond at this time. 

[marbel]

2 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I don't think it's unusual for young brides to be uncomfortable or awkward with their new MIL.  We do know the MIL isn't so destructive that she's being kept away during the birth.  That tells me maybe they just don't know each other well and need to work on getting to know each other and laying down some clean boundaries.  This could be a huge bridge builder in their relationship. 

<snip>

 

I agree. 

I think the "strained relationship with MIL" bit is a red herring.  (I am not dissing OP for including it.  I am not dissing OP for anything in this thread.) We have no idea why the relationship is strained. Maybe the MIL is a raging hag, but then if so, most likely the husband, even though on deployment, would indicate to her that she should leave his wife alone.  For all we know, the MIL is a wonderful woman but the friend doesn't like her and wants OPDD there as a way to distance her.  There is just no way for us to know.  Someone upthread (Techwife? Not sure) suggested this or similar.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by marbel

[QueenCat]

1 hour ago, jdahlquist said:

Technology has also made a big difference.  You do not mention contacting your professors ahead of time asking about doing this.  Email has made it easy for students to send a message to their professors asking for "permission" to miss the class.  I often have students who are doing poorly in a class and when I point out their absences their response will be "But, I took responsibility for that and sent you my excuse before I missed" without realizing the consequences of their choices.  

 

 

 

Yes! Emailing the professor is just informing the professor. It's not taking full responsibility. Turning your work in on time, taking tests on time, etc is taking responsibility. Short of an emergency, which most professors will help you with if they can, work is expected to be turned in when due. 

[katilac]

12 hours ago, StellaM said:

Also got the grades for one class = destiny message.

 

I'm not hearing that message, but, at any rate, it's not one class. It's four or five classes. Grades for one semester do not equal destiny, either, but the OP asked about potential consequences and people told her. 

1 hour ago, jdahlquist said:

I am a bit older than you and have been teaching at the college level since the mid-1980s.  I have seen some major shifts in these issues over that time.  

 

 

 

Yes, I think absences affecting grades is more common than many people think. 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

 

I may have missed this, but is the friend aware of the missed classes? I know that I would hate for someone to miss school on my behalf! 

 

I was wondering the same thing early in this thread, but the OP didn’t respond.  I felt the same way you do — I wouldn’t ask a friend to miss school on my behalf, either, because I would feel like I was being very selfish if I knew my friend was sacrificing her own responsibilities and ambitions to help me — but a few people thought it was perfectly fine to ask that of a friend and said they would volunteer to do the same thing for their own friends. 

I’m not sure how to post a link to that part of the thread and I didn’t want you to have to hunt around for it, so I’ll just copy and paste the posts here. Sorry this is so long, but I didn’t want to clip anyone’s comments and lose the context, so I’m pasting the entire posts.

On 8/17/2018 at 11:05 AM, Catwoman said:

 

I agree. I also think some people are completely disregarding the friend’s responsibility to extendedforecast’s dd. If the dd ends up losing an entire semester (or more) of college, that’s definitely a big deal. What is she going to do for an entire semester if she gets dropped from her classes? Would she have to try to find a job for the semester? Would she lose some or all of the tuition she paid — and what about financial aid and scholarships? And even if she can remain in the classes, how will it look on her transcripts if she is penalized for the absences and ends up with lower grades? 

Would any of us truly ask a close friend to make that kind of sacrifice for us? Is that really what a friend would do? 

My hope is that the friend doesn’t even realize that there could be a problem with extendedforecast’s dd missing some classes, but that as soon as she finds out about it, she will be a good friend and tell extendedforecast’s dd to go home in time to make it back to school before classes start. 

 

On 8/17/2018 at 11:13 AM, Sneezyone said:

 

Honestly, I wouldn't even have to ask. My closest friends would do it in a heartbeat without being asked and so would I. My bestie, who's also an active duty service member, volunteered to take leave and come help me after my surgery (and my DH is here but unavailable 12 hrs a day!) but I declined because I have other resources available. If I didn't tho, yes, I'd have gladly accepted her help.

ETA: Some bases have amazing support networks, others not so much. In our branch of service, family support services are largely left up to spouse volunteers, and spouses and/or service members have to provide their phone/contact info to the volunteer program coordinators. Commands/FRGs are not authorized to reach out without permission from the member or the spouse.

 

On 8/17/2018 at 11:30 AM, Arctic Mama said:

Yup.  I’ve never been military, but I’ve been a young mom and a college student without family I trusted who could come to me.  I’d go in a heartbeat for my friends too.

 

College, uninterrupted and perfectly executed to a schedule, really isn’t the most important thing in life. It’s also inherently more flexible than most other adult commitments.  I’ve availed myself of that flexibility more than once over the years (hence why I was at a junior college instead of high school, for example).  I think it sometimes gets propped on a pedestal and idolized as this Big Thing that is The Only Way, and perspective gets lost. There are costs to consider and choices to be made, and that’s going to look different for each student, but the perspective that personal educational attainment is default more important than friendship or other life activities is ????

 

On 8/17/2018 at 4:23 PM, Tanaqui said:

 

If I needed the help? Yes, I would - but my close friends would offer first. I wouldn't have to ask.

 

[DawnM]

47 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

I'm not hearing that message, but, at any rate, it's not one class. It's four or five classes. Grades for one semester do not equal destiny, either, but the OP asked about potential consequences and people told her. 

 

Yes, I think absences affecting grades is more common than many people think. 

 

I think even more than that, for me, is the concern of being dropped.  Our local CC fills up quickly and there are waiting lists.  You don't show up, having emailed the professor or not, you are getting dropped.  Period.

The same is true at my son's private college and my other son's public university.

[katilac]

I find it odd that some posters are being called out for elitism and told they have a limited point of view because they are affluent. In truth, affluent students are the ones who can most easily take a hit on grades or miss a semester! It's the less affluent students who are more dependent on scholarships and financial aid. 

[Pen]

32 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

I think even more than that, for me, is the concern of being dropped.  Our local CC fills up quickly and there are waiting lists.  You don't show up, having emailed the professor or not, you are getting dropped.  Period.

The same is true at my son's private college and my other son's public university.

 

Some students who don’t get into a class go the first week hoping to get a spot off the waiting list and to show they are committed.  Or to not be behind if they manage to get in to the class. 

[BarbecueMom]

I thought about this thread this weekend.  I planned a weekend get away with our little mothers and daughters group for my mom's birthday.  One of the women attending has been my mom's best friend for 40 years.  She was my mom's labor coach (my dad was not in the picture at the time) and the very first person to lay eyes on me when I was born.  While we were playing dominoes, they told a lot of eyebrow-raising stories from their 19, 20, 21yo days.  Long hours working retail, getting high or drunk and partying the rest of the time (I guess thanks for partying me into existence, lol).  After I was born, mom's BFF decided it was adult time, got a job with the state, and was a CPS caseworker until she retired a couple years ago to help her ailing husband (who died last year), young adult daughters, and grandson.

She would have dropped everything, and did, to be there for my mom when she was giving birth.  And when I called her up about this weekend birthday party to ask if she'd come, she told me there wasn't a thing in the world that could make her miss it.

There's a huge difference in what "undecided" looks like today compared to when I was born 35 years ago.  Mom's BFF didn't need a degree, let alone master's in social work, to get her job, just a pulse and the right temperament (and certainly not a clean drug test!).  And she was AMAZING at her job.  Gentle and loving with kids, comforting yet firm with adults, and I actually have no idea if she ever completed a degree or not.

I don't know if there's a point to this, other than that young adulthood is making choices without the gift of experience, and everything's smothered in luck.  I always tell my kids that every choice has consequences, even good choices, and you can't always predict what those consequences will be.  You can make good choices and still suffer from them.  She could go and help the friend, but stumble in college.  She could prioritize classes and succeed, and her friendship may drift apart.  She could make all her classes or she could be there the whole time for her friend, and everything could work out on both fronts.  Or in ten years, she could have no degree AND no best friend, no matter what choices she makes now.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, BarbecueMom said:

I always tell my kids that every choice has consequences, even good choices, and you can't always predict what those consequences will be.  You can make good choices and still suffer from them.  She could go and help the friend, but stumble in college.  She could prioritize classes and succeed, and her friendship may drift apart.  She could make all her classes or she could be there the whole time for her friend, and everything could work out on both fronts.  Or in ten years, she could have no degree AND no best friend, no matter what choices she makes now.

 

And either way she could have some unexpected major event... negative like  hit by lightning... or could meet her future husband on way to class the first day or in the hospital waiting room. 

 

Eta: still, there is value in trying to make a good choice. Things may work out badly from a seemingly good choice. They may work out well despite a seemingly poor choice. But they are probably more likely to work out well from a good choice and badly from a poor choice. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Pen

[gardenmom5]

51 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Some students who don’t get into a class go the first week hoping to get a spot off the waiting list and to show they are committed.  Or to not be behind if they manage to get in to the class. 

2ds used to do this frequently.  it was his way of 'rebelling' about school.  he'd wait until the last minute to register, then the class would be full.  so, he'd show up those first few classes and be allotted the spot of some student who didnt' show up.

we were all roflol when he was forced to register for fall quarter - in june.

46 minutes ago, BarbecueMom said:

I thought about this thread this weekend.  I planned a weekend get away with our little mothers and daughters group for my mom's birthday.  One of the women attending has been my mom's best friend for 40 years.  She was my mom's labor coach (my dad was not in the picture at the time) and the very first person to lay eyes on me when I was born.  While we were playing dominoes, they told a lot of eyebrow-raising stories from their 19, 20, 21yo days.  Long hours working retail, getting high or drunk and partying the rest of the time (I guess thanks for partying me into existence, lol).  After I was born, mom's BFF decided it was adult time, got a job with the state, and was a CPS caseworker until she retired a couple years ago to help her ailing husband (who died last year), young adult daughters, and grandson.

She would have dropped everything, and did, to be there for my mom when she was giving birth.  And when I called her up about this weekend birthday party to ask if she'd come, she told me there wasn't a thing in the world that could make her miss it.

There's a huge difference in what "undecided" looks like today compared to when I was born 35 years ago.  Mom's BFF didn't need a degree, let alone master's in social work, to get her job, just a pulse and the right temperament (and certainly not a clean drug test!).  And she was AMAZING at her job.  Gentle and loving with kids, comforting yet firm with adults, and I actually have no idea if she ever completed a degree or not.

I don't know if there's a point to this, other than that young adulthood is making choices without the gift of experience

, and everything's smothered in luck.  I always tell my kids that every choice has consequences, even good choices, and you can't always predict what those consequences will be.  You can make good choices and still suffer from them.  She could go and help the friend, but stumble in college.  She could prioritize classes and succeed, and her friendship may drift apart.  She could make all her classes or she could be there the whole time for her friend, and everything could work out on both fronts.  Or in ten years, she could have no degree AND no best friend, no matter what choices she makes now.

and that was 35 years ago - no way  would she have gotten a job as a cps caseworker without a degree today.

I have a great-aunt who was a nurse, she just walked into the hospital and applied.  she had no degree (a nurse - not a 'nurse's aid), she learned on the job.  never happen today.

[DawnM]

I know you said the MIL isn't going to be a help, but where is the friend's mother?  Is she not able to make it?

[DawnM]

9 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

2ds used to do this frequently.  it was his way of 'rebelling' about school.  he'd wait until the last minute to register, then the class would be full.  so, he'd show up those first few classes and be allotted the spot of some student who didnt' show up.

we were all roflol when he was forced to register for fall quarter - in june.

and that was 35 years ago - no way  would she have gotten a job as a cps caseworker without a degree today.

I have a great-aunt who was a nurse, she just walked into the hospital and applied.  she had no degree (a nurse - not a 'nurse's aid), she learned on the job.  never happen today.

 

Gracious, I doubt that would have happened too often even back then.  My grandmother was a nurse with a 4 year degree.  She worked much of her adult life (part time when the kids were young.)  She was born in 1906 and died in 1987.

Teachers used to go to teachers' college and it was a 1 year program.  Then they added a 2nd year.  I don't know when it became a 4 year program, and mine was a 5th year program (CA) and now many places require an MA.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, BarbecueMom said:

 

There's a huge difference in what "undecided" looks like today compared to when I was born 35 years ago.  Mom's BFF didn't need a degree, let alone master's in social work, to get her job, just a pulse and the right temperament (and certainly not a clean drug test!).  And she was AMAZING at her job.  Gentle and loving with kids, comforting yet firm with adults, and I actually have no idea if she ever completed a degree or not.

ok - my oldest is 35. so, I was an adult then.  here, where i live now, large metro area, - you couldn't have gotten a job as a cps caseworker without a college degree. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

Gracious, I doubt that would have happened too often even back then.  My grandmother was a nurse with a 4 year degree.  She worked much of her adult life (part time when the kids were young.)  She was born in 1906 and died in 1987.

Teachers used to go to teachers' college and it was a 1 year program.  Then they added a 2nd year.  I don't know when it became a 4 year program, and mine was a 5th year program (CA) and now many places require an MA.

probably not - but it was in california, during the war. (or maybe 30s)  my grandmother (other side) went to nurses training in seattle in the 20s.  (eta: it was through the hospital)

Edited August 20, 2018 by gardenmom5

[Pen]

15 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

probably not - but it was in california, during the war. (or maybe 30s)  my grandmother (other side) went to nurses training in seattle in the 20s.

 

35 years ago?