Are college fraternities a “white boy” thing?

[Ginevra]

Can we explore this question without anyone getting hysterical? 

My son is going to be a college freshman this fall. He is interested in rushing a fraternity. I am not a huge fan of Greek life, for a multitude of reasons, but I am also not interested in micro-managing him at this point, to where I would forbid him from pursuing it. If anything, being a natural researcher, I thought I might research available fraternities to see which ones I might object to least. 

I recently saw a fraternity magazine that was misdirected mail meant for my BIL and this is where I started to question the racial atmosphere of fraternities. The otherwise (to an 18yo) fun-looking photos of college guys doing fun things together to me were a stark revelation of de facto segregation. At least, for that particular fraternity. So, I began to wonder about this. Is fraternity life an overwhelmingly “white guy” thing? Were fraternities originally invented for the purpose of segregation? Is covert or overt racism a common feature of fraternity rosters? Do non-white people join fraternities? Do they rush but never “happen” to gain acceptance? 

I hope we can discuss this with civility. 

I will be in and out today, so if I am silent for several hours at any point, it is because IRL stuff, not content of the thread. 

[regentrude]

9 minutes ago, Quill said:

Is fraternity life an overwhelmingly “white guy” thing? Were fraternities originally invented for the purpose of segregation? Is covert or overt racism a common feature of fraternity rosters?

No to the bolded. Fraternities were not invented for segregation; they date back to a time when only white males attended college.

You can read about the history of fraternities in this wikipedia article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_North_American_fraternities_and_sororities

There are special African American fraternities (National Pan-Hellenic Council)

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by regentrude

[cave canem]

I have experience with racially diverse fraternities going back to the 80s.  I also knew fraternities whose membership was all black or mostly Jewish.  Sometimes this had to do with the organization's historic mission at the national level.  Sometimes the national targeted a minority group for membership but the local chapter rushed ethnicity-blind.

I don't think any ethnic group is excluded from the Greek system.  I don't know whether individual fraternities are not open to nonwhites.

[shawthorne44]

 

They were established for segregation but not racial segregation.  It was social-class segregation.   Parents realized that their children would be attending college with riff-raff (by their view).   So, they were setup to encourage their kids to mainly socialize with those of their class by putting them in a sub-environment.  

If the organization asks what the parents do for a living, where they live etc., then it hasn't changed.  

[GailV]

When I was in college there were several fraternities that were all black.  I assume there were some that were all Jewish. From that experience I'd say they're not a "white-boy" thing.  On the other hand, I'm not sure that they're really diverse in membership -- sort of like churches that want to be diverse,  but end up being color-coded anyway.

[scholastica]

I think it depends on the college you go to. For example, on my Ds's campus, Greek life is not big, very few students are involved. At the big state U, 30% of the student body is in it and it is a major factor in student life. As to the racial makeup, I think that would vary, as well. I went to more than one university. At one, the fraternities were diverse. At the other, not at all, so it really depends. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

 

They were established for segregation but not racial segregation.  It was social-class segregation.   Parents realized that their children would be attending college with riff-raff (by their view).   So, they were setup to encourage their kids to mainly socialize with those of their class by putting them in a sub-environment.  

If the organization asks what the parents do for a living, where they live etc., then it hasn't changed.  

I had a notion they are classist. Something I heard from a friend about things he touted during rush as being what he “brought to the table” bothered me. It is one of my reservations about frats in general. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

I had a notion they are classist. Something I heard from a friend about things he touted during rush as being what he “brought to the table” bothered me. It is one of my reservations about frats in general. 

Ugh to the bolded.

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Scarlett

[BeachGal]

Some frats are better than others.

My son's frat has a budget set aside for members who cannot afford it but want to belong. Most pay but the option is there for those who can't. Their dues are paid discretely.

Ds's frat is racially diverse and has members who are also openly gay and bi. One guy has dwarfism. Another has been treated for cancer multiple times including once in college when he had to go away. They do not do any hazing whatsoever and have been against it since the fraternity was formed. They're a very accepting bunch of brothers who do charity work and have fun together.

My biggest concern is that some of the kids do engage in binge drinking but that is unfortunately the case all over campus.

[umsami]

The black sororities I knew were far more service oriented and far less binge-drinking oriented--which appealed to me....but I didn't have the guts to ask if I could join/pledge.

I think that black fraternities are similar.  There's even a Muslim fraternity these days.

[DawnM]

It seems to reason that traditionally Fraternities were mostly white and mostly men because colleges were historically more white and more male dominated.  

It has only been more recent generations who have had more diversity on campuses.  

The same is true for wealth.  Only the wealthy (or economically advantaged) could afford colleges generations ago.  

Here are some statistics if you care to wade through.

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs93/93442.pdf

As far as today......I think they are trying to have more diversity, just as colleges in general are, but it is a journey that sometimes doesn't look the way it should "just yet."

 

[Storygirl]

5 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Slightly off topic, but does he have his own money to support his membership? Because although joining may not cost anything, there are probably expenses that will crop up over the year. I remember my parents complained about my sister's involvement in a sorority because of this. I don't know if it differs for the guys. It seemed like they always had a new fundraiser/event t-shirt or something lol.

Back in the 80s, my sorority dues were expensive. I imagine fees have only gone up. My sorority was atypical, not the stereotypical party girl type. And there were things that were positive about it, but also negatives. I paid for my dues myself, and it was not easy. I have told DD16 that I would rather she not join a sorority, and that if she does, she is responsible for all of the costs.

Quill, if you personally don't support joining a fraternity, I don't think you should pay for it, and I think knowing the costs and how he will fund it is a big aspect to consider for your son. I know that is not the question you pose in your thread, but, as you weigh the pros and cons and consider whether you are comfortable with the idea, the cost is important to figure in.

At my university, the black fraternity and sorority were very popular choices for the black students. They were different -- more service oriented and had a strong culture component. So the black students did not choose to rush the main fraternities in the same numbers as the white students. That affected the racial ratios in the main fraternities, of course, but it's not because the frats were excluding people of color.

With that said, every university and every frat within that university has its own culture. So there definitely could be issues within certain organizations. It's not always easy for 18 year olds to sort out these things, and there are aspects of membership that will be withheld from the rushees' and pledges' knowledge. If it's possible for you to help your son think through this (I know some teens won't listen), you might talk about what aspects of fraternity life he should consider, in addition to whether a certain frat is a social fit.

[SKL]

Not an expert on this topic, but at least some of the people of color are joining fraternities specifically designed for people of their color.  In other words, self segregating.

I have not heard that the non-self-segregating-POC fraternities are racially discriminating any more than any other group on a college campus.  Probably some do and some don't.  I would think it's much more likely that they recruit based on shared social background (which can include economic background which can exclude many nonwhite people for reasons other than frat racism).

Edited August 7, 2018 by SKL

[Sneezyone]

Racism, while not 'officially' part of most GLOs was there from the beginning. Jewish individuals were disallowed in practice if not by formal rule, blacks, etc. There were black colleges and universities, for example, that were not allowed to have greek charters and THAT is why black greek organizations were founded in the 1900s into the 20. The first 'black' sorority was at Howard University in Washington D.C. although anyone is allowed to join. Hispanic greek organisations were not far behind that. My sister and aunts are members of NPHC sororities. As recently as the early 2000s, black individuals were being denied membership in GLOs at major U.S. universities and racist incidents with greek-affiliated groups of students are not at all uncommon.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Sneezyone

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Slightly off topic, but does he have his own money to support his membership? Because although joining may not cost anything, there are probably expenses that will crop up over the year. I remember my parents complained about my sister's involvement in a sorority because of this. I don't know if it differs for the guys. It seemed like they always had a new fundraiser/event t-shirt or something lol.

He does have a good few thousand dollars of his own money. This is another one of the things I generally have against frats/sorors. I will not be paying for gifts for new brothers or whatever nonsense costs money. I might donate to a Thon, if it was for a purpose I support, but otherwise, no. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Racism, while not 'officially' part of most GLOs was there from the beginning. Jewish individuals were disallowed in practice if not by formal rule, blacks, etc. There were black colleges and universities, for example, that were not allowed to have greek charters and THAT is why black greek organizations were founded in the 19-teens and 20s, the first sorority was at Howard University in Washington D.C.. Hispanic greek organisations were not far behind that. My sister and aunts are members of NPLC sororities. As recently as the early 2000s, black individuals were being denied membership in GLOs at major U.S. universities and racist incidents with greek-affiliated groups of students are not at all uncommon.

I suspected this. I do know there have been specific racist incidents. IIRC, one such incident within the past few years resulted in a fraternity suspension at the very college DS is attending. 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

I suspected this. I do know there have been specific racist incidents. IIRC, one such incident within the past few years resulted in a fraternity suspension at the very college DS is attending. 

 

Alabama, in particular, had a major issue with its greek system. It's certainly not like that everywhere tho.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Sneezyone

[Farrar]

I'm not an expert on this either, but my understanding is that there are good and bad frats. As pointed out above, there are lots of black frats and even frats that are specific to different religious groups. There are traditionally white frats that have made overtures and attempted to become more inclusive and maybe even succeeded. And there are others that, while they have to talk the talk for the sake of their status as a campus organization, are quite racist. I think that any time you have an organization that's focused on - like people are saying - elitism and self-segregation (even if it's supposed to be for "good" reasons) then you're going to end up bringing out some of this sort of racist behavior.

At schools where they're prominent, they tend to struggle with misogyny and party culture and drinking - not to mention hazing.

I get the idea that some Greeks are really positive, extra supportive experiences for young adults. I'm sure we see the "bad apples" more often than the good. But also, there are a good many bad apples.

[Guest]

@Storygirl, thanks for that. How does one get an idea of expenses? How does one even get “real” info on a particular fraternity? 

I remember a few years ago my friend’s dd was attending the same college mom had attended and was choosing a sorority, as mom had also been in. The mom showed me the FB page of the sorrority she had been in (it was not the one her dd rushed) and it was...shockingly sexy. There was a Halloween party picture that really kind of looked like a Playboy Mansion photo. 

So i guess i could stalk some FB pages, but thats about the most I know. And i assume that will not reveal costs. 

[Katy]

This totally depends on the specific campus.  DH had vastly different experiences at his University than I did.  At the place I went, only one fraternity had the sort of bad reputation that the majority of fraternities at DH's university had.  He has a MUCH more negative view of fraternities than I do as a result. I honestly think you might want to disclose the specific campus DS will be at and then perhaps people who know about that school can give direct information, or at least we could find some campus confidential type sites for you to read that contain the on-campus gossip for that school.

There are definitely advantages to fraternities.  Built in friends, identity, and community.  Much higher likelihood of graduating, and on time. Automatic mixers with sororities that guarantee some sort of dating opportunities and building social skills. Mandatory study hours. Mandatory community service. Real networking opportunities that might very well lead to jobs later, not to mention paid internships in school.

As to racial issues, that may well be an issue in the South. Personally I would be more concerned with forced binge drinking (to a deadly degree) and the use of alcohol in hazing rituals. Either way, you should probably have some discussions about ways to avoid binge drinking turning deadly.  Binge drinking and fraternity life is inevitable, but not to a deadly degree.

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

@Storygirl, thanks for that. How does one get an idea of expenses? How does one even get “real” info on a particular fraternity? 

I remember a few years ago my friend’s dd was attending the same college mom had attended and was choosing a sorority, as mom had also been in. The mom showed me the FB page of the sorrority she had been in (it was not the one her dd rushed) and it was...shockingly sexy. There was a Halloween party picture that really kind of looked like a Playboy Mansion photo. 

So i guess i could stalk some FB pages, but thats about the most I know. And i assume that will not reveal costs. 

 

Halloween is the one time per year that it's preferable to look like a Playboy Mansion photo...  That line in Mean Girls about the hardcore girls just wearing lingerie and animal ear headbands is absolutely true, and more true for college than high school.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

This totally depends on the specific campus.  DH had vastly different experiences at his University than I did.  At the place I went, only one fraternity had the sort of bad reputation that the majority of fraternities at DH's university had.  He has a MUCH more negative view of fraternities than I do as a result. I honestly think you might want to disclose the specific campus DS will be at and then perhaps people who know about that school can give direct information, or at least we could find some campus confidential type sites for you to read that contain the on-campus gossip for that school.

There are definitely advantages to fraternities.  Built in friends, identity, and community.  Much higher likelihood of graduating, and on time. Automatic mixers with sororities that guarantee some sort of dating opportunities and building social skills. Mandatory study hours. Mandatory community service. Real networking opportunities that might very well lead to jobs later, not to mention paid internships in school.

As to racial issues, that may well be an issue in the South. Personally I would be more concerned with forced binge drinking (to a deadly degree) and the use of alcohol in hazing rituals. Either way, you should probably have some discussions about ways to avoid binge drinking turning deadly.  Binge drinking and fraternity life is inevitable, but not to a deadly degree.

To the bolded, this is what I can see being good for DS. I saw the difference it made in high school once he joined LAX and got in with a group of friends at school. He was struggling socially until that piece fell into place (and it didn’t hurt that he got tall and nice-looking). I can see that it could be a positive thing for him, but only if it is positive overall. He could also pick up negative ways from a peer group, too. He is more easily influenced than my daughter. 

[Guest]

The college is Towson University, MD. 

[BeachGal]

It was cheaper for my son to live in his frat than to live in a dorm. He’s off campus this year which will cost slightly more. 

He buys a lot of his clothes from thrift stores as well. No one has to buy the T-shirt’s, etc.

My son joined because he liked the other members. He’s been the treasurer, alumni relations liaison and building maintenance guy — a huge job. Learned a lot, made good friends, opportunities to do good things for others. All pluses in my book.

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

The college is Towson University, MD. 

 

That's good.  The first thing I found on google is they had a fraternity suspended for hazing 2 years ago, so he is less likely to be in danger from it there.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

The college is Towson University, MD. 

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you probably won't have nearly as many issues with the negatives there than at a giant state school. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Sneezyone

[Katy]

https://www.greekrank.com/uni/454/fraternities/

60% of people are greek...  frankly I would encourage it.  Here's a list of frats there.  Click on each and read the reviews.  Keep in mind they all upvote their own frats and downvote the others.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, shawthorne44 said:

They were established for segregation but not racial segregation.  It was social-class segregation.   Parents realized that their children would be attending college with riff-raff (by their view).   So, they were setup to encourage their kids to mainly socialize with those of their class by putting them in a sub-environment.  

But when frats were founded, there was no "riff raff" attending college. Only kids from upper social classes went to college in 1800

[Farrar]

11 minutes ago, regentrude said:

But when frats were founded, there was no "riff raff" attending college. Only kids from upper social classes went to college in 1800

I would dispute that. Compared to the overall population, yes. But there are always levels within elitism. Even in 1800, there was rich and there was rich. Certainly by the mid-1800's there were charity students and even minority students attending many universities.

[teachermom2834]

My ds is in a frat at a very small school. He wasn't originally interested. At his school the parties and events are open to everyone and he is an athlete so he really wasn't needing the social aspect. But he is a business major and his academic advisor advised him to join a fraternity. She told him that it will really open doors in the city he is in.

I really thought that was dumb but he has found it to be true. He had an interview for an internship. He told me after the interview that he would get it because he got interviewed by a couple of frat guys. He did get the internship and he felt that was why. It commonly comes up in interviews and networking events. He is a member of one of the largest and most well known frats nationally. They have big monthly alumni meetings and students are invited. At least in the business world it seems like a plus. He has also taken on leadership roles (he was his pledge class president, then treasurer of the whole frat, plans to be president next year, etc.)

His hasn't been too expensive. He is living in the frat house next year. But it is hardly what you picture as a frat house. It is technically a dorm and only six guys live there. He said it will be quieter than his dorm. The cost to live in the house is just $40 more each semester than his smaller dorm room. 

He says he would never do it at a big state school but he is happy with his choice. I don't love it but I can't really complain about any of his experience with it. Though it really isn't something I'm encouraging for my others. I am pretty biased against it for all the reasons mentioned above.

 

[gardenmom5]

I think you get some minorities - with really good social skills.  I don't know if it's lack of interest on their part or the frats deliberately excluding them.   dd lived on greek row (in a disbanded house that was open to upper level students) so she was surrounded by the greeks.   she was not impressed, and at times downright disgusted.

 

eta: frats have always been about the boys club- business contacts.

Edited August 7, 2018 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

59 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I would dispute that. Compared to the overall population, yes. But there are always levels within elitism. Even in 1800, there was rich and there was rich. Certainly by the mid-1800's there were charity students and even minority students attending many universities.

there were even women (gasp) majoring in male fields!

the first computer programmer is generally agreed to have been a woman - Lord Byron's daughter, Ada Lovelace.   there were even women graduating from medical school in the mid 1800's. (first - elizabeth blackwell - 1849).

[shawthorne44]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

But when frats were founded, there was no "riff raff" attending college. Only kids from upper social classes went to college in 1800

In America there are 7 social classes: lower-lower, upper-lower, lower-middle, middle-middle, upper-middle, lower-upper, upper-upper.   More than the upper-upper were attending college.  

[Crimson Wife]

Totally depends on the school. At many schools today the IFC fraternities and NPC sororities are diverse. My DH has frat brothers and I have sorority sisters who are black, Latino, and Asian. Race/ethnicity was a total non-issue.

There were also chapters of historically black fraternities and sororities on campus but according to my black sorority sisters, those particular chapters were actually VERY elitist in terms of social class. I'm just going by what they told me as the reason why they did NPC rush rather than the NPHC (historically black Greek organizations) rush.

However, at certain schools the NPC sororities still have issues with segregation. University of Alabama had a big scandal a few years ago where one of the chapters wanted to pledge a biracial girl and the local alumnae association vetoed the bid. I don't know if the situation has improved due to the negative publicity but even if they do now have a few token non-white members, it's still a far cry from the actual diversity in chapters at other schools.

[Storygirl]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

@Storygirl, thanks for that. How does one get an idea of expenses? How does one even get “real” info on a particular fraternity? 

I remember a few years ago my friend’s dd was attending the same college mom had attended and was choosing a sorority, as mom had also been in. The mom showed me the FB page of the sorrority she had been in (it was not the one her dd rushed) and it was...shockingly sexy. There was a Halloween party picture that really kind of looked like a Playboy Mansion photo. 

So i guess i could stalk some FB pages, but thats about the most I know. And i assume that will not reveal costs. 

So much has changed, since I was Greek in college, that I don't know the answers.

I do know that the fees were disclosed at some point during the rush process. The cost was not a surprise. Perhaps the college has an office of student affairs or a staff person who oversees the Panhellenic council that you could email to ask some questions.

You could also post on the College board and ask if any boardies would share what current fraternity expenses look like. Although it wouldn't be specific to your son's school, it could give you a ballpark range.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Storygirl said:

So much has changed, since I was Greek in college, that I don't know the answers.

I do know that the fees were disclosed at some point during the rush process. The cost was not a surprise. Perhaps the college has an office of student affairs or a staff person who oversees the Panhellenic council that you could email to ask some questions.

You could also post on the College board and ask if any boardies would share what current fraternity expenses look like. Although it wouldn't be specific to your son's school, it could give you a ballpark range.

Apparently, the rushing fee alone can be several hundred dollars. And then dues can be anywhere from a few hundred dollars per semester to a couple thousand a semester. And then other things like clothing, swag, events and gifts. 

I don’t know...

[teachermom2834]

I mentioned upthread that my ds is in a fraternity at a very small school (1500 students on a good year). His frat dues total $1200/year broken up into three payments. He gets a 10% discount for a high GPA and a 10% discount for paying in full as opposed to going on a payment plan. So he pays less than the quoted fees.

He has not had lots of incidental expenses. He had a weekend beach trip that was included in his dues as are other events. This ds pays for almost all his own school and frat expenses. I don’t think he will need any help from us at all this year. So there is that.

So there is a data point of one. Again, this is a very small school and cannot compare to Greek life at something like Alabama or Georgia, etc. This is a chapter of one of the biggest national fraternities with a reputation for being rich and white. But in reality at his school it is a pretty rinky dink operation. 

All to say this is going to vary greatly from school to school and frat to frat. I am not a fan of Greek life in general but I really can’t complain about this particular situation.

My ds checked it all out freshman year and didn’t rush until sophomore year. It helped him to get to know the guys and how it worked and how school was going to go before deciding. I have known several parents that told their kids they could do it but not freshman year. I really don’t think my ds would have done it if he hadn’t been encouraged to by his advisor but he has enjoyed it.

 

 

[scholastica]

36 minutes ago, Quill said:

Apparently, the rushing fee alone can be several hundred dollars. And then dues can be anywhere from a few hundred dollars per semester to a couple thousand a semester. And then other things like clothing, swag, events and gifts. 

I don’t know...

That sounds about right, from what I’ve heard. My niece was in a sorority and the expectation was that, in addition to the fees for the year, all of them would go to the same location for Spring Break each year. Like, Cancun one year, maybe a Florida beach the next. They had a 4 year rotation of locations, none of them cheap. 

I do think it really depends on the culture of the school and it’s Greek system. My dd and I have gotten a kick out of the re-branding of it as we’ve toured around. Most schools we’ve gone to have referred to it as FSL now. Yeah, not buying that changing the name changes the behaviors. I know that not all the fraternities and sororities behave badly, but the reputation is not entirely undeserved.

[Crimson Wife]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

Apparently, the rushing fee alone can be several hundred dollars. And then dues can be anywhere from a few hundred dollars per semester to a couple thousand a semester. And then other things like clothing, swag, events and gifts. 

I don’t know...

There definitely wasn't a rushing fee at my alma mater.

The clothing was IIRC 1 sweatshirt with letters, 1 little black dress for Preference night of rush, 1 all-white dress for the pledging ceremony, and maybe 2-3 custom-made tee-shirts per year for various events. We did have to buy a pin and there were various price levels depending on how fancy somebody wanted to get. I splurged on one with white gold and diamonds but I could've spent less for a basic pin. I certainly never heard anybody put down a sister who chose the basic pin rather than a more expensive one (that kind of bullying would've been a violation of the personal character standards)

There was a semi-formal dance each fall and a formal dance each spring but a lot of us swapped dresses that we already owned like from our high school prom.

Big sisters gave their little sisters a gift bag during the pledging period but it was mostly crafty stuff that we did (definitely nothing fancy).

Dues were not cheap but the local alumnae group gave several dues scholarships to sisters who needed financial assistance. Applying was confidential so I'm not actually sure how many there were available. I paid my dues with income I earned at a part-time job.

[Sneezyone]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

Apparently, the rushing fee alone can be several hundred dollars. And then dues can be anywhere from a few hundred dollars per semester to a couple thousand a semester. And then other things like clothing, swag, events and gifts. 

I don’t know...

 

A friend's daughter pledged a couple of years ago at Texas Tech or Oklahoma? I can't remember which daughter it was but I remember her saying the fees were WELL over 1K for the year and the rush process required the purchase of specific Lily Pulitzer dresses and various other things. When my sister pledged, I think her fees and dues were $1500 for the first year but that included all of her custom swag (jackets, shirts, etc) and pledge activities (meet and greets, alumnae socials, etc). Thereafter it was less.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Sneezyone

[Scarlett]

I will say I don't get the whole thing.  I would strong discourage my kids from any of that.  Shrug, but what do I know.  

[Katy]

The dues not only vary by school, but by group.  At my school some groups were in the thousands of dollars, others were cheaper than on campus room and board by several hundred dollars per semester (and included other stuff like Spring Break trips and better food - private chefs cooked for some of them).

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, StellaM said:

 

lol, I would put good money on the answer to this question.

Hey I have held my tongue all day.  LOL  I don't feel hysterical though.....just opinionated.

[Scarlett]

And for the record, Quill you don't seem the type AT ALL to be involved in a fraternity/sorority .  But our kids do different things than we would want.....like buy designer purses.  Or drink a gallon of milk.  ?

[katilac]

11 hours ago, Katy said:

 As to racial issues, that may well be an issue in the South. 

 

 

It is an issue everywhere. Some recent incidents, not in the south: 

• Smith College employee calls police upon seeing a black student in a common room
• Fraternity at Syracuse University creates a racist initiation video 
• Cal Poly students dress in blackface

You can easily google to verify these and many more incidents, and you will find that they occur all over the country, with no region dominating. 

Why, yes, I do live in the south ?

 

 

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, Crimson Wife said:

There definitely wasn't a rushing fee at my alma mater.

The clothing was IIRC 1 sweatshirt with letters, 1 little black dress for Preference night of rush, 1 all-white dress for the pledging ceremony, and maybe 2-3 custom-made tee-shirts per year for various events. We did have to buy a pin and there were various price levels depending on how fancy somebody wanted to get. I splurged on one with white gold and diamonds but I could've spent less for a basic pin. I certainly never heard anybody put down a sister who chose the basic pin rather than a more expensive one (that kind of bullying would've been a violation of the personal character standards)

There was a semi-formal dance each fall and a formal dance each spring but a lot of us swapped dresses that we already owned like from our high school prom.

Big sisters gave their little sisters a gift bag during the pledging period but it was mostly crafty stuff that we did (definitely nothing fancy).

Dues were not cheap but the local alumnae group gave several dues scholarships to sisters who needed financial assistance. Applying was confidential so I'm not actually sure how many there were available. I paid my dues with income I earned at a part-time job.

This was my experience as well. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

lol, I would put good money on the answer to this question.

I was just hedging my bets because TBH, I don’t have time for twenty pages of misunderstanding.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

And for the record, Quill you don't seem the type AT ALL to be involved in a fraternity/sorority .  But our kids do different things than we would want.....like buy designer purses.  Or drink a gallon of milk.  ?

Yeah, it’s not my cup of tea, but if he is going to pursue it, I would like to know what he’s getting into and be able to provide guidance. 

[....]

21 hours ago, Quill said:

I recently saw a fraternity magazine that was misdirected mail meant for my BIL and this is where I started to question the racial atmosphere of fraternities. The otherwise (to an 18yo) fun-looking photos of college guys doing fun things together to me were a stark revelation of de facto segregation. At least, for that particular fraternity. So, I began to wonder about this. Is fraternity life an overwhelmingly “white guy” thing? Were fraternities originally invented for the purpose of segregation? Is covert or overt racism a common feature of fraternity rosters? Do non-white people join fraternities? Do they rush but never “happen” to gain acceptance? 

 

What the heck brochure was this??  No!  Lol!  Dh (a Korean man) and I (not a white man) were both in a fraternity in college.  It was co-ed and the entire theme of the fraternity was service.  It's actually a pretty famous fraternity - there were US presidents who had been in our fraternity when they were in college.  Anyway, the fraternity had all kinds of people in it.  All we did was community service.  We did canned food drives, we built a "haunted house" and donated the ticket money to a community center...we worked at food banks, we collected eyeglasses (there's a charity that fixes them/cleans them and donates them)...  We had a few social events, but it was mostly "hey, let's go eat at this restaurant together" and it wasn't very often.  It was entirely community service-oriented.  

[Katy]

8 hours ago, katilac said:

 

It is an issue everywhere. Some recent incidents, not in the south: 

• Smith College employee calls police upon seeing a black student in a common room
• Fraternity at Syracuse University creates a racist initiation video 
• Cal Poly students dress in blackface

You can easily google to verify these and many more incidents, and you will find that they occur all over the country, with no region dominating. 

Why, yes, I do live in the south ?

 

 

That's absolutely true.  I was raised in the South.  IME racism is more covert but (for lack of a better word) vicious in the North, but interracial marriages are also much more common in the North. I think in the South is less likely to have integrated sororities & fraternities, though I have absolutely no statistical data to back that up.  And it's very possible I was insulated from the more extreme racism when living in the South, given that both my parents were in the military and tended to get pretty angry about it.