Cautionary tale about monitoring kids online access

[lea1]

We bought our two 12 year old sons their own cell phones a few months ago because we wanted them to be able to text with their friends, make plans with their friends, contact us if needed (if baseball practice was rained out, etc.).  I researched parental control software and ended up using Kaspersky Safe Kids, since we were using Kaspersky for virus monitoring on our laptops.  It really seemed like it was working out quite nicely.  It allowed me to restrict phone usage so they can't use their phones after 9:00pm or before 7:00am.  I make it send them a warning if they have used their phone for more than 2 hours a day.  I can restrict the app store so they can not install any app without me knowing about it.  If they do get apps from the app store, I have to allow them to use the app, depending on what kind of app it is.  And of course it also allows me to restrict any of the websites they can go to or search, or so I thought.  I receive an email anytime they try to access something they are restricted from accessing.  If they try to search for something that is considered adult content, I also receive an email that tells me what they were searching for.

So I received an email indicating one of my sons tried to search for "cute girls" but was restricted.  I decided to check out their phones while they were away canoeing with their dad.  I had them leave their passwords with me so I could look through them.  One son (that did the "cute girls" search) had downloaded an app with my permission that made the stuff on his phone look 3D, like when he would swipe to go to the next screen, it would look like it was circular.  Come to find out, this seemingly innocent app that he downloaded with my permission also, unbeknownst to me, brought with it a search bar and that search bar was not controlled by Kaspersky Safe Kids.  So if he clicked on the Google app icon and did his search that way, he was restricted from certain topics/content.  But if he typed something into the search bar and searched that way, the Kaspersky app did not know about it.

Using his phone and the search bar, I searched for "cute girls", which is a seemingly innocent search.  The results were far from innocent and totally broke my heart.  It took me 4 hours on the phone with Samsung to finally get to the bottom of where this search bar had come from (the 3D app), to get rid of it and then to get everything working again the way it should with Kaspersky Safe Kids.

So now we are purchasing Gryphon Connect which is a router with parental control.  With this router, you don't have to load anything on all of the devices that will access your internet.  A profile is create for each person using the internet and it allows you to assign the profile rights for preschool ages, elementary, middle school, high school, 18+, and unrestricted.  They are also coming out with an upgrade that has some way of filtering the data even when the child is using their phone away from home....not sure how that works but it sounds interesting.

Anyway, this is my cautionary tale.  We were trying to "do everything right" and still ended up feeling like I failed to protect my kids and, to some degree, my son's innocence has been stolen, or at least that is how I feel.  I am so saddened by this and wanted to share in hopes I might save someone else's child from something like this.  Also, even though my sons can not text or call friends after 9:00pm, they still receive texts from friends at 3:00 or 3:30 in the morning, which I found very shocking.

[teachermom2834]

I’m sorry. There is always something new or some workaround. It is exhausting. 

[Murphy101]

MANY apps are like that. You really have to check every one of them bc no matter what you are doing, the Internet is always looking for work arounds and usually finding them. 

[lea1]

I want to lock my sons in a closet until they are 20 also:).  The nice thing about the Gryphon Connect router is that, since it is at the router level, it should not make any difference which app they are using.  It SHOULD be able to catch things like this.  We actually shut our internet down where they boys can't get to it at all until we get this router installed.  It gets really good reviews on Amazon but it has not been out very long.  I hope it is everything they say it is.

[Liz CA]

I too can sympathize with younger parents who are facing this onslaught of technology geared to snare kids young. After all there is $$ to be made eventually. Whoever designed this app knew likely full and well that it would provide a backdoor to the internet. 

Unfortunately, like Murphy said, everything has to be checked and test-driven these days. 

[Liz CA]

1 hour ago, lea1 said:

I want to lock my sons in a closet until they are 20 also:).  The nice thing about the Gryphon Connect router is that, since it is at the router level, it should not make any difference which app they are using.  It SHOULD be able to catch things like this.  We actually shut our internet down where they boys can't get to it at all until we get this router installed.  It gets really good reviews on Amazon but it has not been out very long.  I hope it is everything they say it is.

 

Glad you found something new that is likely catching more stuff. Just remember that 6 months from now, you may have to check for updates or just make sure it's still catching everything you want it to catch.

These people who design apps with the goal of enabling kids to get around their parents' safeguards seem to be at work day and night. There is no rest for the wicked...literally.

[lea1]

I agree with what many of you have said, it is hard to keep up with the changing technology.  It is a constant battle.

[TechWife]

Keep in mind that the router level control will only work if they are using your router. It will not work if they are at a friend’s house or out and about connected to public WiFi. 

[lea1]

1 hour ago, Patty Joanna said:

And yet...when you are out in public (or in our house) "free wi-fi" is provided by the city.  Even though our internet wasn't even ON after midnight, the city wi-fi never sleeps.

A good practice for *everyone* is that the devices that don't rely on internal routers get put away before bed time.  In some other part of the house.

And OP, I am sorry.  I can truly sympathize.

 

You bring up a really good point.  For some reason, our sons' phones cannot access any other wi-fi except the one at our house.  They have been frustrated by this but, so far, we have not figured out why.  I am good with that for now.  

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, Liz CA said:

I too can sympathize with younger parents who are facing this onslaught of technology geared to snare kids young. 

 

The public libraries computer access isn’t secure either even though the libraries try their best. Library PC access is given to kids kindergarten age and up.

”A library card is required to use the public pcs, or a 30-minute visitor pass will be issued per day for guests. For cardholders, the limit is 60-minute sessions, and up to 3 hours per day.  All libraries have public pcs available on a first-come, first-served basis.”

[Scarlett]

I learned this lessons with my Ds's IPod.  He didn't have a smart phone and I was diligent about his PC....but I was lax about the IPod and it did cost us. In hind site I don't know why I was so clueless about it......but it come back to bite us.  

[sassenach]

Make sure you leave a review on that app.

 

[Ottakee]

I would suggest good heart to heart talks about inappropriate searches/usage with your kids and not just rely on external controls (although those are helpful as well).

You can always have them turn in all electronics at 9 or 10 each night and have them charge in your bedroom.  I had one that managed to access the neighbors wifi even though we are rural.

[bethben]

Similar situation.  The app that guaranteed safe web access was easily foiled by my son.  His problem wasn't so much public wifi, but his ability to be secret late at night in his room.  So, we changed the wifi password, contacted the next door neighbor to password protect their guest network,  and with Verizon bought the ability to monitor his data and what he is able to access (he no longer is able to access data).  Basically, at home, he has texting (which I know has issues also depending on who you know) and calls.  We will not allow our last two children to have smart phones at this point until they are on their own.  They will get flip phones only.  We also do not allow computer usage in rooms anymore.  Heart to heart talks are good, but addiction can come on pretty quickly and sometimes we as parents need to just step in and help.  My son was struggling and wanted a way out but also didn't want us to know so while the restrictions annoy him, he hasn't put up a fight.

[lea1]

2 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I would suggest good heart to heart talks about inappropriate searches/usage with your kids and not just rely on external controls (although those are helpful as well).

You can always have them turn in all electronics at 9 or 10 each night and have them charge in your bedroom.  I had one that managed to access the neighbors wifi even though we are rural.

I have had MANY heart to heart talks with both of my sons about this subject.  The last one was just last week and one son (the one who did not do this) said, "Mom, you have already talked to us about this many times" and I said I would be talking about it many more times because it is important.

They are timed when they play games on their ipads, 1 hour on the weekends and 30 minutes on weekdays.  ipads are locked up when not in use, so no access to these.

The parental control software I am using allows me to control the times they can not use their phones.  They are always locked out of them from 9:00 pm to 7:00 am. The only thing they could do during those times is to make an emergency call.

I pray with them on a regular basis.  We take them to church on a regular basis.  I read the Bible with them and teach them about what the Bible says.

This incident definitely did not happen from a lack of parental supervision or effort.

ETA: I truly believe that this incident also did not begin by him specifically going searching for P@rn.  He searched for "cute girls", which in his eyes (and in mine, quite frankly) is seemingly a very innocent search.

[Guest]

What frightens me is that I am not at all savvy; my 13yo can get around on technology better than I can ever hope to. My 18yo knows how to do things I do not even know are possibilities. So I feel close to helpless to protect them. So either of them can absolutely, certainly find things I do not want them to see so much as once. 

It absolutely depresses me. I’m putting screen limits in place for DS13 right now and you would think I sold his dog. It’s difficult to do, in part because I have older kids and they cannot be subject to identical rules as the 13yo; it would make no sense and their time is differently constructed and they can access anything they want by going somewhere besides our home. 

 

[lea1]

17 minutes ago, bethben said:

Similar situation.  The app that guaranteed safe web access was easily foiled by my son.  His problem wasn't so much public wifi, but his ability to be secret late at night in his room.  So, we changed the wifi password, contacted the next door neighbor to password protect their guest network,  and with Verizon bought the ability to monitor his data and what he is able to access (he no longer is able to access data).  Basically, at home, he has texting (which I know has issues also depending on who you know) and calls.  We will not allow our last two children to have smart phones at this point until they are on their own.  They will get flip phones only.  We also do not allow computer usage in rooms anymore.  Heart to heart talks are good, but addiction can come on pretty quickly and sometimes we as parents need to just step in and help.  My son was struggling and wanted a way out but also didn't want us to know so while the restrictions annoy him, he hasn't put up a fight.

In our case, we have never allowed ipads or phones in their rooms, at night or any other time.  And he downloaded the 3D application for the cool 3D effects.  He was actually not even looking for a way to bypass parental controls but it still ended up happening accidentally.  I agree, it is very addictive and, no matter how many heart to heart talks you have, you just never know how they are going to react to being faced with unexpected search results like this.  My other son definitely would have come and told me about it right away.  

It just goes to show that you can make an effort to be very proactive and do "all the right things" and they may still end up finding a way, purposefully or accidentally, to get around it.

[nixpix5]

Often times pre-teens and teens will help their friends who have strict monitoring to find backdoor ways. These backdoor have specific innocuous sounding searches to throw parents off. We often think our kids are more innocent than they truly are.

One tech savvy 14 year old I knew created his own app to get around just about every protection and gave it to his peers. The icon was made to look like an Internet search icon. It was brilliant and terrifying. 

[lea1]

21 minutes ago, Quill said:

What frightens me is that I am not at all savvy; my 13yo can get around on technology better than I can ever hope to. My 18yo knows how to do things I do not even know are possibilities. So I feel close to helpless to protect them. So either of them can absolutely, certainly find things I do not want them to see so much as once. 

It absolutely depresses me. I’m putting screen limits in place for DS13 right now and you would think I sold his dog. It’s difficult to do, in part because I have older kids and they cannot be subject to identical rules as the 13yo; it would make no sense and their time is differently constructed and they can access anything they want by going somewhere besides our home. 

 

It is frightening.  I have a computer science degree but the technology changes so quickly that, if it is not a hobby also, it is really impossible to keep up with...and I have been retired from working outside the home for the past 12 years.  My husband is pretty computer savvy but it still takes a huge effort to keep up and stay ahead.

This router is supposedly having an update soon (or maybe it has already; not sure) where it somehow protects them when they are away from home also.  Not sure how in the world they can do that but that is what I read.  I am hopeful that will be the case but I may also possibly get a better parental control app to use also.

[lea1]

5 minutes ago, nixpix5 said:

Often times pre-teens and teens will help their friends who have strict monitoring to find backdoor ways. These backdoor have specific innocuous sounding searches to throw parents off. We often think our kids are more innocent than they truly are.

One tech savvy 14 year old I knew created his own app to get around just about every protection and gave it to his peers. The icon was made to look like an Internet search icon. It was brilliant and terrifying. 

Wow, that is terrifying.  Thankfully my two sons are not that tech savvy...at least not yet.  They also go to a very small university model school that does not allow cell phones so I am hopeful they won't run into this type of thing.  Their friends' parents seem like they are all pretty much like us in their beliefs and the way they are trying to raise their kids, although the one texted at 3:00 in the morning is new to the area, lives nearby and they met him on their baseball team.  I did look at their text messages when I was checking out their phones and it was all typical 12 year old boy goofy stuff.  You just never know when that might change.

[lea1]

I really wish cell phone companies would make phones similar to computers, where there is an Admin login to do certain administration things that the actual end user cannot do/change, unless they are Admin.  One would think with all of the kids who have cell phones now days, they would be thinking about how to protect kids, from the world and from themselves, and provide functionality to parents through an Admin login that would allow parents to set it up with the protections they see fit.  For adults, they could just be the Admin account all the time and have things the way they wanted them.

As my mom used to say, if wishes were fishes we would all have a good swim.:)

[nixpix5]

6 minutes ago, lea1 said:

Wow, that is terrifying.  Thankfully my two sons are not that tech savvy...at least not yet.  They also go to a very small university model school that does not allow cell phones so I am hopeful they won't run into this type of thing.  Their friends' parents seem like they are all pretty much like us in their beliefs and the way they are trying to raise their kids, although the one texted at 3:00 in the morning is new to the area, lives nearby and they met him on their baseball team.  I did look at their text messages when I was checking out their phones and it was all typical 12 year old boy goofy stuff.  You just never know when that might change.

That is really key. Keeping all parents involved on board. One thing that can help is having a parent information night if you can find someone to host or are willing to. When kids see parents coming together to discuss tech and creating a parent watch so to speak, it sends a powerful message. It truly takes a village as overused as that cliche saying is. 

[Murphy101]

47 minutes ago, lea1 said:

I really wish cell phone companies would make phones similar to computers, where there is an Admin login to do certain administration things that the actual end user cannot do/change, unless they are Admin.  One would think with all of the kids who have cell phones now days, they would be thinking about how to protect kids, from the world and from themselves, and provide functionality to parents through an Admin login that would allow parents to set it up with the protections they see fit.  For adults, they could just be the Admin account all the time and have things the way they wanted them.

As my mom used to say, if wishes were fishes we would all have a good swim.:)

 

But that’s simple enough to make happen. I do it. My kids phones are not theirs. They are my phones that I let them use. And that means I set it up and set passwords and so forth. They can’t download an app without bringing the phone to me. And I spend at least 30 minutes going through the app myself before saying okay.  I have the phone set up to auto download everything they do to my cloud. I can see emails, texts, phone calls, pictures and where they went online or in apps. And even with that, I will randomly take their phone to go through it sometimes. I put it on par with checking their rooms are clean. And no electronics are allowed upstairs or after bedtime.

This kind of set up isn’t new or unheard of. It’s standard information given online all the time. And the majority of parents just say that’s too much for them to handle.  I don’t know what to say to that.  It’s not that big a hurdle to deal with for me and if it were, I’d take the phone and restrict electronics more.

To me, this isn’t about character.  It’s about development and brain wiring.  These things are targeting those areas.  To me it’s no different than swimming in the ocean.  It doesn’t matter who else claims they are ready to swim the English Channel, it’s not a matter of character to consider whether the child before me is ready or not.  And it’s not a parenting failure to learn they weren’t as ready as we thought and pull them to shore for a time.

If anyone thinks they are going to download a net nanny on their electronics and then be able to forget about it, they need to just stop thinking that’s ever going to happen because it isn’t.

What we really need us for cyber crime preventing and enforcement to be properly funded and taken serious in our legal system. 

[Liz CA]

1 hour ago, lea1 said:

I have had MANY heart to heart talks with both of my sons about this subject.  The last one was just last week and one son (the one who did not do this) said, "Mom, you have already talked to us about this many times" and I said I would be talking about it many more times because it is important.

They are timed when they play games on their ipads, 1 hour on the weekends and 30 minutes on weekdays.  ipads are locked up when not in use, so no access to these.

The parental control software I am using allows me to control the times they can not use their phones.  They are always locked out of them from 9:00 pm to 7:00 am. The only thing they could do during those times is to make an emergency call.

I pray with them on a regular basis.  We take them to church on a regular basis.  I read the Bible with them and teach them about what the Bible says.

This incident definitely did not happen from a lack of parental supervision or effort.

ETA: I truly believe that this incident also did not begin by him specifically going searching for P@rn.  He searched for "cute girls", which in his eyes (and in mine, quite frankly) is seemingly a very innocent search.

 

And lets not forget it is also very normal for a kid this age. Curiosity about this is not tied to technology but has existed since time immemorial. The unfettered access to things so much worse than "cute girls" is the issue. One of the things to avoid is to make him feel ashamed. A one-on-one talk about how the porn industry uses fairly innocuous search terms to return porn images and portals to porn sites may be helpful. This blames the porn industry and acknowledges that he was curious but did nothing shameful.

[Penelope]

13 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

But that’s simple enough to make happen. I do it. My kids phones are not theirs. They are my phones that I let them use. And that means I set it up and set passwords and so forth. They can’t download an app without bringing the phone to me. And I spend at least 30 minutes going through the app myself before saying okay.  I have the phone set up to auto download everything they do to my cloud. I can see emails, texts, phone calls, pictures and where they went online or in apps. And even with that, I will randomly take their phone to go through it sometimes. I put it on par with checking their rooms are clean. And no electronics are allowed upstairs or after bedtime.

This kind of set up isn’t new or unheard of. It’s standard information given online all the time. And the majority of parents just say that’s too much for them to handle.  I don’t know what to say to that.  It’s not that big a hurdle to deal with for me and if it were, I’d take the phone and restrict electronics more.

To me, this isn’t about character.  It’s about development and brain wiring.  These things are targeting those areas.  To me it’s no different than swimming in the ocean.  It doesn’t matter who else claims they are ready to swim the English Channel, it’s not a matter of character to consider whether the child before me is ready or not.  And it’s not a parenting failure to learn they weren’t as ready as we thought and pull them to shore for a time.

If anyone thinks they are going to download a net nanny on their electronics and then be able to forget about it, they need to just stop thinking that’s ever going to happen because it isn’t.

What we really need us for cyber crime preventing and enforcement to be properly funded and taken serious in our legal system. 

This all works great for younger kids. 

Thinking this is enough once a child is at all tech savvy and wants to circumvent parental control may also be naive.

There is a way around just about any controls or monitoring a parent can do, for someone who wants to find it. Sadly. 

[Liz CA]

2 minutes ago, Penelope said:

This all works great for younger kids. 

Thinking this is enough once a child is at all tech savvy and wants to circumvent parental control may also be naive.

There is a way around just about any controls or monitoring a parent can do, for someone who wants to find it. Sadly. 

 

This is probably true, especially for some determined kids...but it does not mean we should not put as many hurdles in the path as we possibly can.

[Laurie]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

 

 

If anyone thinks they are going to download a net nanny on their electronics and then be able to forget about it, they need to just stop thinking that’s ever going to happen because it isn’t.

What we really need us for cyber crime preventing and enforcement to be properly funded and taken serious in our legal system. 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/more-2300-suspected-online-child-sex-offenders-arrested-during-operation-broken-heart

According to our local newspaper, some local slime were caught as a result of this operation.    It's sickening  to know that this can only be the tip of the iceburg. 

[Murphy101]

49 minutes ago, Penelope said:

This all works great for younger kids. 

Thinking this is enough once a child is at all tech savvy and wants to circumvent parental control may also be naive.

There is a way around just about any controls or monitoring a parent can do, for someone who wants to find it. Sadly. 

 

That’s not entirely true though. There’s only so many legal ways to hack someone else’s electronics.  If my kid is moving into that territory, then yeah, that’s a characater issue on a different level and I’m going to make their life all kinds of miserable consequences to deter that.

I make no claims that what I do prevents using other electronics not within my ownership or household. 

I make no claims anything is 100% effective.

But it is actually very effective at preventing the majority of problem situations. My younger kids don’t have electronics at all. So I’m talking 16-18 ages specific, and if it’s mostly effective with my teens, I would think it would be more so with younger kids. 

And once they are older, if they don’t trust that I want what’s for their good or agree with me about the moral line of these things, then that’s going to be a big problem no matter how it comes to light. A major part of the effectiveness of how solidly that aspect of our relationship is before anything is a problem. 

[Laurie]

18 hours ago, lea1 said:

 

Anyway, this is my cautionary tale.  We were trying to "do everything right" and still ended up feeling like I failed to protect my kids and, to some degree, my son's innocence has been stolen, or at least that is how I feel.  I am so saddened by this and wanted to share in hopes I might save someone else's child from something like this.  Also, even though my sons can not text or call friends after 9:00pm, they still receive texts from friends at 3:00 or 3:30 in the morning, which I found very shocking.

Both of my kids are young adults with autism.   They don't have their own cell phones and we have one computer in the house with internet access.   Last night, my daughter wanted to watch a Hamtaro video on the computer, and when I went in to check on her she had found some anime website and the big ad on the side of the page featured a scantily clad anime woman with the words "C_ _ _ (the word that rhymes with blunt) Wars".    My daughter was upset with me for turning the computer off at that point and argued with me that  it wasn't her fault.  She's not tech savvy but the filth is so pervasive that you don't even have to look for it. 

[Murphy101]

2 minutes ago, Laurie said:

Both of my kids are young adults with autism.   They don't have their own cell phones and we have one computer in the house with internet access.   Last night, my daughter wanted to watch a Hamtaro video on the computer, and when I went in to check on her she had found some anime website and the big ad on the side of the page featured a scantily clad anime woman with the words "C_ _ _ (the word that rhymes with blunt) Wars".    My daughter was upset with me for turning the computer off at that point and argued with me that  it wasn't her fault.  She's not tech savvy but the filth is so pervasive that you don't even have to look for it. 

 

You can go into your computer and block specific websites. I would block that one after informing the owner of the video why.  When it cost their business they’ll stop.  But either way at least you won’t have it on your computer. But I will warn you, anime is notorious for having women portrayed like that or having those kinds of ads. Which is a shame because I have a couple kids who love anime and this really restricts their access sometimes. It’s often takes them several tries to find anime that will pass out electronics and tv filters. And yep, even then, it’s the damn ads that slip through. Really ticks me off that the commercials or ads for a G production are often R or worse.  Rating are useless imnsho. 

[lea1]

2 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

 

But that’s simple enough to make happen. I do it. My kids phones are not theirs. They are my phones that I let them use. And that means I set it up and set passwords and so forth. They can’t download an app without bringing the phone to me. And I spend at least 30 minutes going through the app myself before saying okay.  I have the phone set up to auto download everything they do to my cloud. I can see emails, texts, phone calls, pictures and where they went online or in apps. And even with that, I will randomly take their phone to go through it sometimes. I put it on par with checking their rooms are clean. And no electronics are allowed upstairs or after bedtime.

This kind of set up isn’t new or unheard of. It’s standard information given online all the time. And the majority of parents just say that’s too much for them to handle.  I don’t know what to say to that.  It’s not that big a hurdle to deal with for me and if it were, I’d take the phone and restrict electronics more.

To me, this isn’t about character.  It’s about development and brain wiring.  These things are targeting those areas.  To me it’s no different than swimming in the ocean.  It doesn’t matter who else claims they are ready to swim the English Channel, it’s not a matter of character to consider whether the child before me is ready or not.  And it’s not a parenting failure to learn they weren’t as ready as we thought and pull them to shore for a time.

If anyone thinks they are going to download a net nanny on their electronics and then be able to forget about it, they need to just stop thinking that’s ever going to happen because it isn’t.

What we really need us for cyber crime preventing and enforcement to be properly funded and taken serious in our legal system. 

Thank you for sharing all of this.  I had no idea that you could set their phones up that way.  What kind of phones do you have for your kids?  We have Samsung for our sons.  I will have to investigate this further.  

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, lea1 said:

Thank you for sharing all of this.  I had no idea that you could set their phones up that way.  What kind of phones do you have for your kids?  We have Samsung for our sons.  I will have to investigate this further.  

 

It doesn’t matter what brand you have. If you set it up as your phone, then they have to do more than basic stuff to work around not having passwords, billing, cloud access and more.

You can set up the “admin” passwords for the settings to be different from the open home screen password. Mine only have the open screen password. 

We have both iPhone and Samsung Galaxy. 

[lea1]

3 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

It doesn’t matter what brand you have. If you set it up as your phone, then they have to do more than basic stuff to work around not having passwords, billing, cloud access and more.

You can set up the “admin” passwords for the settings to be different from the open home screen password. Mine only have the open screen password. 

We have both iPhone and Samsung Galaxy. 

Wow, that's great to know.  I will research how to do this but thanks so much for letting me know that it is possible.  Every blockade I can put between them and "the bad stuff" is one more hurdle that has to be overcome before they can reach "the bad stuff", so I am definitely willing to give this a try.  Thanks!

[Meadowlark]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but here goes-

Why does a 12 year old need a phone? I don't get it. Oodles of problems that can be avoided.

[Tanaqui]

So when they travel by themselves they can call/text you to relay information like "There's a bus delay, I'm going to be late" or ask questions like "Do you mind meeting me at the shoe store,  they're having a sale and you know I need new sneakers but I don't have the cash".

Also, so they can call/text their friends.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Meadowlark said:

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but here goes-

Why does a 12 year old need a phone? I don't get it. Oodles of problems that can be avoided.

Well, I’m not the OP, but I can take a stab at this. This is how kids interact with one another and the world. Maybe you can stave it off at 12without causing too much social difficulty, maybe you can keep it at bay through 13, but it soon becomes a problem unless you believe their social needs are irrelevant. Every other kid will be texting each other. Every other kid will know what games people are playing. But your kid will be out of the loop because they don’t have a phone. 

IME, phones are less of a problem in our homeschool community because the parents are less likely to give their kids phones, or not until they are older teens. But once they are in a B&M school (high school for my kids) or even if they simply have friends who are not hsed (this is true for my youngest) it does become an issue. 

Also, you can only avoid these problems for so long by withholding a phone. If you even can!  It didn’t help Josh Duggar, and that is a cautionary tale in my mind. 

[Lecka]

I agree on these issues.  For my 13-year-old we do allow him to do voice chat on video games.  We do monitor this, it is rare that he is alone in the room. 

Anyway the voice chat is very social.  

Phones are also very social.

For him and who his friends are, voice chat is a good option.

But to be clear — it does encourage more friendships with kids who spend their time playing video games. 

Kids who are more out and about with various activities are more likely to have phones and use phones with friends.  

But anyway — I think my son is just not responsible.  It’s a problem in various areas.  

I don’t even really think he would have sensible thoughts like “hey I should call my mom and tell her about this problem I am having” like other people are saying.  

What I think is that he would never ever call, I would just call him to find out where he was.  And it would drive me crazy because I want him to be responsible for where he is and noticing the time and things like that.  

Literally when we have any hang-ups he will say “if I had a phone you could have just called me” and it comes across like he thinks that would be a good solution, not taking the initiative himself.

I really do see other kids doing sensible things like notifying their parents of a schedule change.  I would like that, too, lol.  

He is a good kid though and I don’t worry about him being out and about without a phone.  

 

[Scarlett]

My cautionary tale is I failed to realize an IPOD was being used to access the www.  I was so careful in every other way.  I am still mad at myself for being so stupid.  But moms are not perfect and our kids are not perfect, so we all have to forgive ourselves and each other and move on.  

Other than that stupid IPOD I did not allow electronics in bedrooms until about age 17. 

I think if you can get them through to about age 17 they get better about self monitoring and general self control.  

[Janeway]

Thank you for posting this!!! I wish we could get a pinned post where we could post cautionary or banned apps. Like you could post the name of this app and then detail what it does, why you would not allow it. 

 

On my children's ipads, I had to restrict safari. As in, they cannot use safari at all. They cannot download their own apps. And I test all apps. But they are young. With the older kids, I doubt I could have that level of control. In fact, I know I cannot. I already caught some things and figure for what little I have caught, there must be much more. FYI, the thing I "caught" I walked in on. But then a search of the computer and web history showed nothing. I visually saw him doing that and watching that, but his computer showed no trace of it.

[lea1]

49 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Thank you for posting this!!! I wish we could get a pinned post where we could post cautionary or banned apps. Like you could post the name of this app and then detail what it does, why you would not allow it. 

 

On my children's ipads, I had to restrict safari. As in, they cannot use safari at all. They cannot download their own apps. And I test all apps. But they are young. With the older kids, I doubt I could have that level of control. In fact, I know I cannot. I already caught some things and figure for what little I have caught, there must be much more. FYI, the thing I "caught" I walked in on. But then a search of the computer and web history showed nothing. I visually saw him doing that and watching that, but his computer showed no trace of it.

As for the app that my son download, it is call CM Launcher and the purpose is to give this "cool" 3D  effect when clicking around different areas on the phone. 

 

[lea1]

9 hours ago, Meadowlark said:

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but here goes-

Why does a 12 year old need a phone? I don't get it. Oodles of problems that can be avoided.

No flaming from me:).  We thought long and hard about this before finally deciding to do it.  For a long time we said they would not have a cell phone until they were driving and then it would be a flip phone.  But on one of the threads on this forum one mom was talking about how this is how kids communicate and make plans now days, mostly with texting each other, whereas when I was young we were on a land line with long cords that we would stretch around the corner and sit and talk to our friends for hours.  I wanted to give them some independence when it comes to their friends, to talk, keep in touch, make plans to get together, rather than me having to talk to a mom to make a "play date"....I think they are a little too old for that. And many households now days do not have a land line so if my son's friend wants to contact him he has to call my cell phone.  That is not likely to happen.  Actually, we do have a land line at our house but what I am seeing is that they don't really call each other much.  They text more than anything and when I went through my son's texts, they were just fun, silly boy conversations that would not have happened over a phone.

I know not everyone agrees with this thinking and that's OK.  Everyone has to make the decisions they feel are right for their own family.  Definitely not something to flame about.  I can see both sides of this coin very clearly.

[Rachel]

Here is a website that I came across recently that helps parents understand apps and how they can be used.  https://protectyoungeyes.com/apps/ 

They seem to be current on the apps kids are using.  They also seem to do a good job of describing how apps were designed to be used and then describing how teens are using them in practice.  

 

[lea1]

9 hours ago, Rachel said:

Here is a website that I came across recently that helps parents understand apps and how they can be used.  https://protectyoungeyes.com/apps/ 

They seem to be current on the apps kids are using.  They also seem to do a good job of describing how apps were designed to be used and then describing how teens are using them in practice.  

 

This is great, thanks Rachel!

[Peaceseeker]

NM

[Farrar]

Without their own phones, my kids would be shut out of social opportunities. They all make plans on group texts. It's not realistic for them to use my phone to call. It just doesn't really work. You need a smartphone to do the group texts now - even non-smartphones don't work for these new style group texts - only one to one texting. I see socializing as important. It's hard enough to be 12 or 13. It's dramatically harder if you have no friends.

I think you always have to assume that the kids will be ahead of you on technology. End stop. We do have limits and use some technology controls, but overall, my focus is relationship and checking in over trying to control them via the technology. Of course they're better at it than me. Unless I was an internet security professional, they'd be better at it than me. They're teenagers.

[Murphy101]

I think socializing is important. I simply don’t think all interaction is worth it long term. 

The middle school years are especially difficult and to me, I’ve not seen social media/phone use make it any easier on those ages and significantly harder.  I think it just adds to all the angst there ever already was to that development.

So for the same reason as you, that’s why I don’t allow electronics until much older.

And yet they have made very close friendships over the years.