Aging parents

[Scarlett]

My mom seems off and I can't decide if it is just her or a symptom of a bigger problem. I mean, she is quirky and clueless and in recent years she and I both have thought  how she is probably ADD.  

There is a fact about my son that is public knowledge that she has ' no idea about'.  Like he drives a blue Prius and has for 3 years and she says ' oh his car is blue?  I didn't realize that. '

And then Dh and I look at her and say well dh's truck is brown you know that right? And she says ' no I didn't realize. '

And for 6 months they have lived on a little dead end street with 4 neighbors and she still has no idea who drives what vehicle.  It is just stuff that you just can't believe she doesn't know.  

I can't decide if we are just being to hard on her or if she is losing it.  She is 73. 

 

[TechWife]

Well, I have no idea what color cars my siblings drive, except for one of my sisters. I only know hers because it is the exact same make, model and color as mine. I also don’t know what color cars my neighbors drive. I’d recognize them when I see them, but just sitting here I have no idea other than dark or light color.  It’s just something I don’t care about. 

Try not to read too much into it -she’s still pretty young. Just be aware and enjoy spending time with her, but I wouldn’t worry just yet. 

[marbel]

If it's just the car thing, I wouldn't worry about it.  I don't note stuff like that.  It's not important so I don't retain the information.

Of course if that's just an example and there are other things going on, then maybe it's time for a checkup.  

[AmandaVT]

Does she repeatedly not remember? Have you had the "DS's car is blue" conversation many times or just once? 

I don't remember what color my brother's truck is and I was in it last week. I think it's black? But it could be dark grey or blue. 

I've lived on my quiet dead end street for 12 years and I know 2 of my neighbors' cars. I'm not the most observant person. 

From what I know, signs of memory issues are more like not remembering what year it is, how to tell time or recognizing pictures of, say, a dog. 

[Annie G]

I’m inside my head almost all the time and rarely notice details like car color or whether someone has glasses or facial hair.  We share a driveway with a neighbor who has a tenant living upstairs. At least four cars total but I couldn’t tell you what any of them are.  Some people just don’t notice things like that.   I’d be more concerned if she is forgetting previously known info, though. 

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, Amanda Pugliese said:

Does she repeatedly not remember? Have you had the "DS's car is blue" conversation many times or just once? 

I don't remember what color my brother's truck is and I was in it last week. I think it's black? But it could be dark grey or blue. 

I've lived on my quiet dead end street for 12 years and I know 2 of my neighbors' cars. I'm not the most observant person. 

From what I know, signs of memory issues are more like not remembering what year it is, how to tell time or recognizing pictures of, say, a dog. 

I would not say she repeatedly does not remember.... Just that i can't even believe she doesn't know/hasn't realized. And to be clear it isnt actually the car ( well the neighbors part is but not our family)....but it is a part of our lives so much that I can't believe she doesn't know,. My son just graduated high school and she was there but for example say back in February she were to say ' oh I thought he was already graduated. '.  That is the kind of bizarre thing it is.  Like how in the world can you be in the same town, same congregation, see this grandson several times a week and NOT know this.  She is not uninterested.  Probably just un observant.  

There is a big church on the way to my sons work ( and I work there too). It has a HUGE metal roof....very green...just stands out.  I have had it used as a landmark many times to me since I moved here.  Recently they replaced the roof and changed the color to brown.  I mentioned it to Ds and he had no idea what I was talking about.  Had never noticed a big church with a huge green roof and had not noticed they were replacing the roof with a brown one.  Even though it involved cranes and lifts and dozens of workers.  With an 18 year old I assume he is just a goose in his own world....but when I told that story to my mom she also had no idea what I was talking about.  

I am probably over thinking this.  I am going to see if there are any other examples.  Dh also thought it was bizarre and thinks she is losing it.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Annie G said:

I’m inside my head almost all the time and rarely notice details like car color or whether someone has glasses or facial hair.  We share a driveway with a neighbor who has a tenant living upstairs. At least four cars total but I couldn’t tell you what any of them are.  Some people just don’t notice things like that.   I’d be more concerned if she is forgetting previously known info, though. 

Ok, the car example was probably a bad example....but it is a previously known thing.  A very important life event, milestone type thing.  No that she missed....but rather she assumed had already happened.  'Oh I thought he already graduated high school, because he can add'.....that is a better analogy probably. 

[Annie G]

Sadly we have too much recent experience with memory issues. What you mention might be something but it sounds more like normal aging.  If she is forgetting things that impact her daily routine, then I’d worry. Things like forgetting the day/year/how to do routine things.  But it might be worth it to encourage her to have it checked out by checking for a UTI and having her doc look over her meds to be sure nothing could be causing it. There are some online tests (and some that docs use) to do a preliminary check for memory issues but it doesn’t sound like you need that yet.

Can she still learn new info? Both MIL and Dad lost ability to learn/retain new info. 

It’s really hard to tell whether she’s just kind of spacey or if it’s a memory issue. It was super clear w MIL and Dad. We knew.  So if your intuition is tingling, I’d start journaling any instances- that has been super helpful for us. 

[FriedClams]

Check for a UTI. It's so simple but can cause so many serious looking issues in older adults. Please, check there first.

[Scarlett]

I thought of another type thing she is doing lately that just leaves me ....?..???.??? 

Dh has a very bad back.  Double fusion, with another disc bulging. Being a passenger in a vehicle is most always just excruciating to him,. I don't mean he prefers to drive, or doesn't think someone else is a good driver....but that he is in physical pain because of the nature of the moves and bumps and for some reason it is MUCH worse as a passenger.

So in conversation yesterday he mentioned that his back was really bothering him and how earlier ( when we were all riding together and my dad was driving he was in a lot of pain). My mom very glibly and dismissively says, ' no one in this family likes to be the passenger D (my step sister) gets car sick in the back, Scarlett likes to drive, Mr. Scarlett likes to drive, J ( my dad) likes to drive.   I guess I am the only one who doesn't mind being a passenger. '.   It is like she doesn't believe, doesn't understand or something the very real physical pain my Dh is in as a passenger.  Like we are talking about subject A and she is talking about subject Z. 

I feel like I am not explaining this well. 

 

[Lizzie in Ma]

It's really hard to tell.  Both my parents have been doing things like that for some time.  We keep an eye on them.  Not sure if it is the age or something else.

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Sadly we have too much recent experience with memory issues. What you mention might be something but it sounds more like normal aging.  If she is forgetting things that impact her daily routine, then I’d worry. Things like forgetting the day/year/how to do routine things.  But it might be worth it to encourage her to have it checked out by checking for a UTI and having her doc look over her meds to be sure nothing could be causing it. There are some online tests (and some that docs use) to do a preliminary check for memory issues but it doesn’t sound like you need that yet.

Can she still learn new info? Both MIL and Dad lost ability to learn/retain new info. 

It’s really hard to tell whether she’s just kind of spacey or if it’s a memory issue. It was super clear w MIL and Dad. We knew.  So if your intuition is tingling, I’d start journaling any instances- that has been super helpful for us. 

Oddly enough she has has a lot of trouble with her bladder.  Spasms though...not infection.  She has been checked out repeatedly, so I really don't feel like it is causing some sort of memory issue. 

Spacey describes her. 

She definitely retains new info she is interested in. She has tracked down her bio father who is long dead and found half siblings.....and this is info previously unknown to her ( she thought the man who raised her was her bio father) .  She understands quite a bit of how the genetics tests work, she compiles and reads a lot of genealogy ....she helps my dad with things like getting broken parts off the lawn mower and ordering the right one....

She is probably just spacey. 

[vmsurbat1]

34 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

There is a big church on the way to my sons work ( and I work there too). It has a HUGE metal roof....very green...just stands out.  I have had it used as a landmark many times to me since I moved here.  Recently they replaced the roof and changed the color to brown.  I mentioned it to Ds and he had no idea what I was talking about.  Had never noticed a big church with a huge green roof and had not noticed they were replacing the roof with a brown one.  Even though it involved cranes and lifts and dozens of workers.  With an 18 year old I assume he is just a goose in his own world....but when I told that story to my mom she also had no idea what I was talking about.  

I am probably over thinking this.  I am going to see if there are any other examples.  Dh also thought it was bizarre and thinks she is losing it.  

From what you've shared thus far, I'm in the  "you are overthinking it" camp.  I wouldn't notice the roof color change at all.  I'm not very observant (or I just don't deem it important to remember) much about my surroundings.  One day I remarked on the new energy windmills on a stretch of road going out of our town and was told they'd been there at least 5 years (and we've been on that road many times).  It had just never registered.  Another example:  Recently in a friend's house (which we visit approx. once a month),  I complimented them on some recent photos decorating their wall, only to be told they'd actually been there for the past 2 years.  Again, just never registered before.

However, I'm very good at remembering where on a page I've read something and also at reading people's emotions/body language--much better than my husband, for example.  

I think you and your mom differ in what you deem important enough to register and remember at the very least....  

 

[Pawz4me]

All I can tell you is that the elderly people I know who've developed issues -- The signs were much more apparent than what you're describing. Like forgetting how to turn off a faucet, losing the ability to balance a checkbook, forgetting how to spell the name of a grandchild. But I don't know, I guess it's possible we didn't notice more subtle signs sooner. But none of the things you're mentioning raise any flags for me. I know young/youngish folks who exhibit the same lack of observation.

[Katy]

If she's retaining new information that she's interested in, I'd ignore the other stuff.

I remember being in high school and being mystified about how anyone could remember exactly what the car I'd drove - when I arrived before 6 am and left after 5 and had only driven it 4 times, and not with the person who identified my car. Apparently she knew every car in the lot.  I could identify only the one's I'd ridden in before and the two people with flashy convertibles.  I still don't know why anyone would think to care about stuff like who drives what.

[Scarlett]

Ok, well you are all probably right. 

[Guest]

IME, these things are easier to see in retrospect. There were lots of “weird moments” with my MIL that I didn’t really see clearly until the patently obvious memory issues had begun. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Quill said:

IME, these things are easier to see in retrospect. There were lots of “weird moments” with my MIL that I didn’t really see clearly until the patently obvious memory issues had begun. 

Come to think of it, I think it is weird how she hyper focuses on a topic like genealogy . And she wants to tell me every detail she is learning about every distant relative that we didn't even know we're relatives until a few months ago.  

[goldberry]

The things you are describing sound like normal differences in observation.  With my mom it was different from what you are describing.  She would go to the store to get something.  Then two hours later say she needed to go to the store to get the thing.

I would watch it but not worry too much.  My husband does things like that ALL THE TIME and always has.  He's ADD and that's part of how it displays.  

[Pawz4me]

31 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Come to think of it, I think it is weird how she hyper focuses on a topic like genealogy . And she wants to tell me every detail she is learning about every distant relative that we didn't even know we're relatives until a few months ago.  

As MIL has aged we've all noticed that she tells us so many things in minute detail. We assume a lot of it is because she's a widow, and even though she has a pretty active social life (more active than mine!) she doesn't have someone at home to talk to all the time about all the little stuff. So when one of us is around--well, she takes advantage.  

[fairfarmhand]

17 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

As MIL has aged we've all noticed that she tells us so many things in minute detail. We assume a lot of it is because she's a widow, and even though she has a pretty active social life (more active than mine!) she doesn't have someone at home to talk to all the time about all the little stuff. So when one of us is around--well, she takes advantage.  

We have a relative like this and I struggle to not get irritated about it. No it really doesn’t matter to me how many people “liked” your photo on Facebook. Nope don’t care how many Times you went to Hardee’s this week. Sigh. I’m a terrible person. I try very hard not to come off as bored or whatever but the trivial stuff just drives me bonkers. 

[Garga]

 

1 hour ago, FriedClams said:

Check for a UTI. It's so simple but can cause so many serious looking issues in older adults. Please, check there first.

 

Are UTIs different for older adults than for younger people?  Those things HURT, especially if you let them go on longer than a couple of days.  If she had a UTI, wouldn’t she be saying something?  

I can see saying to have a person who is completely in dementia tested, if they’re unable to communicate to those around them, but for someone who is having mild memory/observant issues yet can still communicate perfectly to those around her, wouldn’t she know she if she had a UTI issue?

Or do UTIs present differently for different people and they don’t feel in pain every minute of the day from them?

I’m not picking on you.  I just see this suggestion a lot when an adult is showing memory issues and I’ve wondered for a while now how it would not be glaringly obvious that they’re in pain and have a UTI (unless they’re completely non-communicative.)

[Pawz4me]

20 minutes ago, Garga said:

 

 

Are UTIs different for older adults than for younger people?  Those things HURT, especially if you let them go on longer than a couple of days.  If she had a UTI, wouldn’t she be saying something?  

I can see saying to have a person who is completely in dementia tested, if they’re unable to communicate to those around them, but for someone who is having mild memory/observant issues yet can still communicate perfectly to those around her, wouldn’t she know she if she had a UTI issue?

Or do UTIs present differently for different people and they don’t feel in pain every minute of the day from them?

I’m not picking on you.  I just see this suggestion a lot when an adult is showing memory issues and I’ve wondered for a while now how it would not be glaringly obvious that they’re in pain and have a UTI (unless they’re completely non-communicative.)

I’ve known elderly ladies who had chronic, persistent UTIs without realizing it. They can be very serious in elderly people. 

[Katy]

38 minutes ago, Garga said:

 

 

Are UTIs different for older adults than for younger people?  Those things HURT, especially if you let them go on longer than a couple of days.  If she had a UTI, wouldn’t she be saying something?  

I can see saying to have a person who is completely in dementia tested, if they’re unable to communicate to those around them, but for someone who is having mild memory/observant issues yet can still communicate perfectly to those around her, wouldn’t she know she if she had a UTI issue?

Or do UTIs present differently for different people and they don’t feel in pain every minute of the day from them?

I’m not picking on you.  I just see this suggestion a lot when an adult is showing memory issues and I’ve wondered for a while now how it would not be glaringly obvious that they’re in pain and have a UTI (unless they’re completely non-communicative.)

 

VERY different.  Usually they don't feel any pain, though they may suddenly have increased frequency or incontinence.  The biggest symptom is memory issues, confusion, and being uncharacteristically combative for 3+ days.

[FriedClams]

7 hours ago, Garga said:

 

 

Are UTIs different for older adults than for younger people?  Those things HURT, especially if you let them go on longer than a couple of days.  If she had a UTI, wouldn’t she be saying something?  

I can see saying to have a person who is completely in dementia tested, if they’re unable to communicate to those around them, but for someone who is having mild memory/observant issues yet can still communicate perfectly to those around her, wouldn’t she know she if she had a UTI issue?

Or do UTIs present differently for different people and they don’t feel in pain every minute of the day from them?

I’m not picking on you.  I just see this suggestion a lot when an adult is showing memory issues and I’ve wondered for a while now how it would not be glaringly obvious that they’re in pain and have a UTI (unless they’re completely non-communicative.)

I think it's very different. And, if you add in general adult incontinence, the use of absorbent under garments, etc it seems like it would be a common ailment. But yes, i think it's different.

[kbutton]

Your mom sounds like my MIL who definitely has ADHD. She also has some other issues (not identified, but not explained solely by the ADHD), but no dementia. 

[SKL]

1) Is it the kind of thing she has always noticed in the past?

2) Is her mobility limited so that she doesn't get out and actually look at the cars much?

I would bet my mom doesn't know what make or color my car is, but she's still pretty sharp.  It just isn't the kind of thing some people notice.  For that matter, I don't know all that about my family members' cars either.  My neighbors - on both sides, they have multiple driving adults and additional cars that drive up for various reasons.  Some of their cars I know by sight - but then, I sit and look out my window every day when they drive home, so I would hope I'd recognize what I see every day for years. ?

[TechWife]

17 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I thought of another type thing she is doing lately that just leaves me ....?..???.??? 

Dh has a very bad back.  Double fusion, with another disc bulging. Being a passenger in a vehicle is most always just excruciating to him,. I don't mean he prefers to drive, or doesn't think someone else is a good driver....but that he is in physical pain because of the nature of the moves and bumps and for some reason it is MUCH worse as a passenger.

So in conversation yesterday he mentioned that his back was really bothering him and how earlier ( when we were all riding together and my dad was driving he was in a lot of pain). My mom very glibly and dismissively says, ' no one in this family likes to be the passenger D (my step sister) gets car sick in the back, Scarlett likes to drive, Mr. Scarlett likes to drive, J ( my dad) likes to drive.   I guess I am the only one who doesn't mind being a passenger. '.   It is like she doesn't believe, doesn't understand or something the very real physical pain my Dh is in as a passenger.  Like we are talking about subject A and she is talking about subject Z. 

I feel like I am not explaining this well. 

 

 

I don’t necessarily think your MIL doing this is a memory issue. A lot of people forget about or refuse to acknowledge hidden disabilities. Unless she sees physical evidence of the back issues, she may just be the type who is dismissive of things like that. I’m not making an excuse for her, I think it’s an awful reality of some in our  culture, though. 

[HS Mom in NC]

I don't think it's odd at all that she doesn't notice those things. I've never noticed things like what car or car colors neighbors or relatives have.  Cars are an uninteresting topic and completely irrelevant to my life.  I have excellent focus.

Lots of people get into genealogy and they blather on about the details.  I never understood the fascination myself.  But enthusiasts are well...enthusiastic and chatter on about things.  Wanna talk about quilting?  I'm in.  Other people would be bored stiff talking about quilting.  

[Janeway]

Does she go outside when people come and go? If not, she probably does not realize the colors of the cars or which cars they drive. Honestly, we have few people on my block and I have some odd thing about colors and can remember the guy across the street has a truck and the one at the end of the block has a big SUV, but cannot remember the colors and have no idea what anyone else drives. I would not be concerned about just that stuff. Even if she is starting to have cognitive issues, it would be very early on and not a concern. IF she had known for sure your son had a blue car and suddenly one day forgot, then I would be concerned.

[Tanaqui]

I have a few thoughts, and they're not completely connected to each other.

The first is about your mother: IF this is new, then yes, you should keep an eye on it, though not panic. None of us know whether her behavior has changed except you. If this is the sort of thing she used to remember and now she can't, that's something. But if it's not, it's not.

The second is about you. A few weeks ago you were shocked that your ex didn't know whether his son was in the morning or the afternoon session at school. Today you're wondering if you should worry that your mother doesn't know who drives what color car, and you're surprised that neither she nor your son has noticed the color of the roof of the church. There's a common thread here. Instead of these other people being stunningly unobservant, is it possible that you simply tend to notice details more than other people? Most of us consider our own perceptions to be normal, but they aren't always. There is no way I'd be able to tell you which neighbor drives which car on my block!

[Scarlett]

10 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

I have a few thoughts, and they're not completely connected to each other.

The first is about your mother: IF this is new, then yes, you should keep an eye on it, though not panic. None of us know whether her behavior has changed except you. If this is the sort of thing she used to remember and now she can't, that's something. But if it's not, it's not.

The second is about you. A few weeks ago you were shocked that your ex didn't know whether his son was in the morning or the afternoon session at school. Today you're wondering if you should worry that your mother doesn't know who drives what color car, and you're surprised that neither she nor your son has noticed the color of the roof of the church. There's a common thread here. Instead of these other people being stunningly unobservant, is it possible that you simply tend to notice details more than other people? Most of us consider our own perceptions to be normal, but they aren't always. There is no way I'd be able to tell you which neighbor drives which car on my block!

As I was typing up this first post the similarity to the one I posted a few weeks ago did occur to me.  I realized then that both situations affect me the same way....I feel it shows a lack of caring and concern about others.  But intellectually I know that is illogical.  And part of what I get out of posting these questions here is a wide variety of feedback from others who don't operate the way I do.

So thanks all.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

I don't know if it's a lack of concern for others, but more becoming self-centered. They don't do it to denigrate others, but simply can't see beyond their own noses. Other people just aren't on their radar. I'm watching this with dh with his cancer. NOTHING can be discussed that doesn't revolve around him. Talk about tomorrow's flag gathering at the cemetery? All of a sudden it's about HIS work schedule. Talk about another doctor appointment for someone else? It becomes a discussion about HIS doctor appointment a week later. Talk about moving some beds around? It becomes about HIS sleeping arrangements. Talk about the kids' traveling (I have 4 on the road right now). It becomes all about how HE needs to be somewhere. Talk about who is coming to dinner? It becomes a discussion about HIS eating habits and how he won't have enough food the next day (when the refrigerator is full of food).  And NONE of the discussions were about him at all! But everything has to be. In my house, it's like watching dh turn into his mother. You have my sympathy. In our case, there is no point in calling it out. It is what it is. Smile and go eat chocolate. 

This was helpful.  I do believe she has become MUCH more self absorbed in recent years.  Dh says it is age and that I am not imagining it.  I know on this thread it seems like I just think she should care about details in the same way I do, but really it is much more than that.  

I just had a piece of chocolate.  

And I am very sorry about your husband's illness. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I never notice people's cars.

[Irene Lynn]

Sometimes people aren't exactly slipping mentally in a way that will require intervention, but they don't have as much energy to spare.  They have energy for things that are most important to them and not as much energy left over for the things they would have noticed or thought about when they were younger when there was energy to spare. My dad (88) is still pretty sharp, but he doesn't have much energy left.  His short term memory is not what it was, though it is still functional when he has had enough sleep. I definitely notice changes (minor) in both my parents.  They are aging and their mental flexibility and their energy do not extend to all subjects equally.  Being sharp does take energy!

[Scarlett]

9 hours ago, Margaret in CO said:

I don't think it's about cars at all, just the self-centeredness. 

Yeah, I think my point got lost when I used the car example early on because honestly THAT was not the 'thing' that she didn't know.  It is a very big thing in our life.  I did say up thread somewhere that it was more along the lines of  thinking my son had already graduated high school before he actually did.  

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, Irene Lynn said:

Sometimes people aren't exactly slipping mentally in a way that will require intervention, but they don't have as much energy to spare.  They have energy for things that are most important to them and not as much energy left over for the things they would have noticed or thought about when they were younger when there was energy to spare. My dad (88) is still pretty sharp, but he doesn't have much energy left.  His short term memory is not what it was, though it is still functional when he has had enough sleep. I definitely notice changes (minor) in both my parents.  They are aging and their mental flexibility and their energy do not extend to all subjects equally.  Being sharp does take energy!

Yes, I think you are right.  They are tired.  My dad will be 80 this year. They are both in excellent shape but age is age.

[StephanieZ]

The examples of cars and car colors aren't typical dementia symptoms, IME. I know what my immediate family (who live with me) drive, but I really have very little idea about anyone else's cars. I don't care about cars, and I just don't notice them very often. I'm not a "car person". I know, in general, the car types/colors of my handful of closest friends whose vehicles I've seen hundreds of times and ridden in dozens of times . . . But, I don't know for SURE. I know Bev drives a light Mercedes SUV. I think it might be silver. Or white. I only remember it's a Mercedes bc her husband is a "car guy" so there is attention paid . . . I know Beth drives a Volvo (light colored? or is it dark -- maybe red? Silver?) or on other days some sort of SUV -- maybe that's the light colored one? I just don't care much about cars. I know the four that live in my driveway, but that's about it. 

Google up "early dementia symptoms" for checklists. Things like trouble "word finding" for basic words (I.e., can't recall the word pilot, so says "the person who drives the plane") and trouble with "executive function" (i.e., used to handle all the family bills but is now overwhelmed with basic bill paying/mail opening) and increased susceptibility to scams (i.e., my attorney super-savvy mother believed the Publishers' Mailing House mailings were real and that she'd won $50,000 . . .) are more typical signs of early dementia. 

IME (caregiver for mother with Alzheimer's from early signs through her death), the only medical thing I'd suggest DOING if you're concerned is making sure she has a check up with her GP soon for a basic physical exam. If she'll allow it, go with her to take notes and make sure your concerns are investigated. Request a MMSE (mini mental status exam) -- that any decent GP will have on hand and can do in under 5 minutes. This is the baseline for checking for signs of dementia, is scored, and will be very helpful for a first step and for a baseline in the future if your concerns become heightened. Also request comprehensive bloodwork to screen for the many known causes of mental deterioration in elderly folks. (Thyroid, Vitamin D, etc, etc, etc.) Those things can be done by the regular GP and will result in a referral if appropriate/needed. 

The other thing I'd suggest to ALL adult children of parents 70+ is make sure their documents are in order (estate attorney!!) and also to make sure you (or someone else very trustworthy) are monitoring their finances and MAIL to make sure they aren't dropping financial balls or being preyed upon. Find a way to monitor accounts, to get their "big money" behind a firewall that can only be accessed/changed with a second person's approval (so they don't get cleaned out bc the gave a predator access to their accounts accidentally or on purpose), etc. Getting CC'ed on their email account and finding a way to monitor their phone calls is also helpful. When/if things go south, you'll want to be able to limit the ability of "bad guys" to contact them. That's tricky, no fast/easy answers, but is a critical thing. The most dangerous thing about early dementia is that folks are targeted by evil people, even charities, even well known and "good" charities, even their church. When dh & I become anywhere CLOSE to that point (and automatically when we're both 70+), I'll be sure all our "big money" including titles to real estate, businesses, etc, are behind a firewall that will require my kid(s) to sign off on any major changes.I'll make sure someone trustwrorthy is monitoring all accounts monthly and doing credit checks routinely as well to watch for new accounts. I.e., put all the major accounts under some sort of custodial agreement and just leave "play money" (say 100k out of 2 million dollars, or 30k out of 1 million dollars) readily accessible along with regular transfers of monthly bills/etc. That way, the elderly person can only easily be scammed out of money they can readily afford to lose, and any big problems will be caught before they become catastrophic. SIMPLIFYING financial affairs is a primary concern, and I'd work to have my financial affairs as simple as possible before retirement. 

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, StephanieZ said:

The examples of cars and car colors aren't typical dementia symptoms, IME. I know what my immediate family (who live with me) drive, but I really have very little idea about anyone else's cars. I don't care about cars, and I just don't notice them very often. I'm not a "car person". I know, in general, the car types/colors of my handful of closest friends whose vehicles I've seen hundreds of times and ridden in dozens of times . . . But, I don't know for SURE. I know Bev drives a light Mercedes SUV. I think it might be silver. Or white. I only remember it's a Mercedes bc her husband is a "car guy" so there is attention paid . . . I know Beth drives a Volvo (light colored? or is it dark -- maybe red? Silver?) or on other days some sort of SUV -- maybe that's the light colored one? I just don't care much about cars. I know the four that live in my driveway, but that's about it. 

Google up "early dementia symptoms" for checklists. Things like trouble "word finding" for basic words (I.e., can't recall the word pilot, so says "the person who drives the plane") and trouble with "executive function" (i.e., used to handle all the family bills but is now overwhelmed with basic bill paying/mail opening) and increased susceptibility to scams (i.e., my attorney super-savvy mother believed the Publishers' Mailing House mailings were real and that she'd won $50,000 . . .) are more typical signs of early dementia. 

IME (caregiver for mother with Alzheimer's from early signs through her death), the only medical thing I'd suggest DOING if you're concerned is making sure she has a check up with her GP soon for a basic physical exam. If she'll allow it, go with her to take notes and make sure your concerns are investigated. Request a MMSE (mini mental status exam) -- that any decent GP will have on hand and can do in under 5 minutes. This is the baseline for checking for signs of dementia, is scored, and will be very helpful for a first step and for a baseline in the future if your concerns become heightened. Also request comprehensive bloodwork to screen for the many known causes of mental deterioration in elderly folks. (Thyroid, Vitamin D, etc, etc, etc.) Those things can be done by the regular GP and will result in a referral if appropriate/needed. 

The other thing I'd suggest to ALL adult children of parents 70+ is make sure their documents are in order (estate attorney!!) and also to make sure you (or someone else very trustworthy) are monitoring their finances and MAIL to make sure they aren't dropping financial balls or being preyed upon. Find a way to monitor accounts, to get their "big money" behind a firewall that can only be accessed/changed with a second person's approval (so they don't get cleaned out bc the gave a predator access to their accounts accidentally or on purpose), etc. Getting CC'ed on their email account and finding a way to monitor their phone calls is also helpful. When/if things go south, you'll want to be able to limit the ability of "bad guys" to contact them. That's tricky, no fast/easy answers, but is a critical thing. The most dangerous thing about early dementia is that folks are targeted by evil people, even charities, even well known and "good" charities, even their church. When dh & I become anywhere CLOSE to that point (and automatically when we're both 70+), I'll be sure all our "big money" including titles to real estate, businesses, etc, are behind a firewall that will require my kid(s) to sign off on any major changes.I'll make sure someone trustwrorthy is monitoring all accounts monthly and doing credit checks routinely as well to watch for new accounts. I.e., put all the major accounts under some sort of custodial agreement and just leave "play money" (say 100k out of 2 million dollars, or 30k out of 1 million dollars) readily accessible along with regular transfers of monthly bills/etc. That way, the elderly person can only easily be scammed out of money they can readily afford to lose, and any big problems will be caught before they become catastrophic. SIMPLIFYING financial affairs is a primary concern, and I'd work to have my financial affairs as simple as possible before retirement. 

They currently have some property left in AR that hasn't sold.  A friend lives in the house for free...she reimburses my parents the cost of utilities.  I know my mom has forgotten to pay that water bill a time or two in the 6 months since they moved.....but hey I just failed to pay a bill that I could have sworn I paid...I even had notes in my bill paying notebook, 'X amount paid on X day from X account' but it didn't go through and I failed to notice.  Anyway, my point is that can happen to any one.  

As far as her letting me in to their business in order to help her?  Or monitor her?  Not gonna happen.  She is not private, but she is very independent and she would balk at the suggestion she might need help.  Heck, I took her arm when she was walking in heels to the vehicle in the dark and she slapped it away and said 'good grief Scarlett I am not an invalid'.  *I* would taken my husband's arm if I had been in heels.  So she is going to resist.  I can just tell.  They tore up their will and they will not discuss it with my sister or me.  There are some very very serious things that will happen to cause my sister and me grief if my parents die together which is not beyond possibility because they are together all of the time.  

 

[TechWife]

20 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

They currently have some property left in AR that hasn't sold.  A friend lives in the house for free...she reimburses my parents the cost of utilities.  I know my mom has forgotten to pay that water bill a time or two in the 6 months since they moved.....but hey I just failed to pay a bill that I could have sworn I paid...I even had notes in my bill paying notebook, 'X amount paid on X day from X account' but it didn't go through and I failed to notice.  Anyway, my point is that can happen to any one.  

As far as her letting me in to their business in order to help her?  Or monitor her?  Not gonna happen.  She is not private, but she is very independent and she would balk at the suggestion she might need help.  Heck, I took her arm when she was walking in heels to the vehicle in the dark and she slapped it away and said 'good grief Scarlett I am not an invalid'.  *I* would taken my husband's arm if I had been in heels.  So she is going to resist.  I can just tell.  They tore up their will and they will not discuss it with my sister or me.  There are some very very serious things that will happen to cause my sister and me grief if my parents die together which is not beyond possibility because they are together all of the time.  

 

 

She may resist, but at the appropriate time, you need to plan to talk to her and tell her that she needs to get her affairs in order if she wants to decide what happens to her property, her money and most of all, to herself. She can make decisions now, but does she want to leave all of those important decisions to someone else with no guidance as to her wishes? There will come a time when she can speak for herself, whether that is the result of an accident or a natural aging process. Tell her you don't care who she puts in charge of her finances or gives a power of attorney too, as long as she does it (now if there are some people that shouldn't have access to her funds, you need to speak frankly with her about that). I agree with others - she needs to see an attorney that specializes in elderly issues. Having someone who is not family walk her through the process may be just what she needs, and as one of the kids, that objective voice helped me, too.  Being the child of elderly parents is not for the faint of heart.

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

She may resist, but at the appropriate time, you need to plan to talk to her and tell her that she needs to get her affairs in order if she wants to decide what happens to her property, her money and most of all, to herself. She can make decisions now, but does she want to leave all of those important decisions to someone else with no guidance as to her wishes? There will come a time when she can speak for herself, whether that is the result of an accident or a natural aging process. Tell her you don't care who she puts in charge of her finances or gives a power of attorney too, as long as she does it (now if there are some people that shouldn't have access to her funds, you need to speak frankly with her about that). I agree with others - she needs to see an attorney that specializes in elderly issues. Having someone who is not family walk her through the process may be just what she needs, and as one of the kids, that objective voice helped me, too.  Being the child of elderly parents is not for the faint of heart.

My sister has had that exact conversation with her dad and I have had it with my mom.  They actually had an attorney in AR tell them they didn't need a will.  Thus they tore it up.  They shrug and say they won't be here so what do they care.  My sister has pled with her dad to think of  her....if things are left as they are (no will) she will have a legal nightmare on her hands in dealing with her brother who is in a nursing home.  We just can't seem to get through to them.

[TechWife]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

My sister has had that exact conversation with her dad and I have had it with my mom.  They actually had an attorney in AR tell them they didn't need a will.  Thus they tore it up.  They shrug and say they won't be here so what do they care.  My sister has pled with her dad to think of  her....if things are left as they are (no will) she will have a legal nightmare on her hands in dealing with her brother who is in a nursing home.  We just can't seem to get through to them.

 

Who's brother? Your mothers? Depending on state law, he may not be entitled to anything. Now, if your mother is responsible for his affairs, there definitely needs to be a back up plan in place, but it has to be his back up plan, not your mother's. I don't know why an attorney would tell them they don't need a will - everyone needs a will. A will gives a person (the executor) the authority to settle the estate, which means access checking, savings, retirement accounts, pay bills, sell property, talk to the phone company (AT&T was a hot mess), etc.. My parents had less than $1K in money and they owned their house, and they needed a will. Without a will, I would have had to go to court and request that I be allowed to settle their affairs. Without a will, they are putting the decision of who decides in the hands of the county court. The court could decide they want one of their representatives to do it, and the estate would be charged for that service. They need to talk to an attorney in the state where they live.

ETA: You may need to have this conversation with her several times. I know I did. Just keep bringing it up once or twice a year. When her health starts failing, she may be more receptive.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

Who's brother? Your mothers? Depending on state law, he may not be entitled to anything. Now, if your mother is responsible for his affairs, there definitely needs to be a back up plan in place, but it has to be his back up plan, not your mother's. I don't know why an attorney would tell them they don't need a will - everyone needs a will. A will gives a person (the executor) the authority to settle the estate, which means access checking, savings, retirement accounts, pay bills, sell property, talk to the phone company (AT&T was a hot mess), etc.. My parents had less than $1K in money and they owned their house, and they needed a will. Without a will, I would have had to go to court and request that I be allowed to settle their affairs. Without a will, they are putting the decision of who decides in the hands of the county court. The court could decide they want one of their representatives to do it, and the estate would be charged for that service. They need to talk to an attorney in the state where they live.

ETA: You may need to have this conversation with her several times. I know I did. Just keep bringing it up once or twice a year. When her health starts failing, she may be more receptive.

My Mom and step dad have 4 kids between them. Both have a boy/girl. My step brother is in a nursing home in another state.  That state pays for all of his care because he is indigent.  If our parents die with no will, my step brother will be entitled to a share which will stop his benefits until that money is all gone....so my sister gets to deal with all of that paperwork.  My brother has a serious form of dementia and cannot handle his own affairs at all.  He is also an addict, so even if he was not incapacitated leaving him money would not be a kindness.  

They think as long as they are both alive they do not need a will.  

[TechWife]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

My Mom and step dad have 4 kids between them. Both have a boy/girl. My step brother is in a nursing home in another state.  That state pays for all of his care because he is indigent.  If our parents die with no will, my step brother will be entitled to a share which will stop his benefits until that money is all gone....so my sister gets to deal with all of that paperwork.  My brother has a serious form of dementia and cannot handle his own affairs at all.  He is also an addict, so even if he was not incapacitated leaving him money would not be a kindness.  

They think as long as they are both alive they do not need a will.  

 

Is your sister her brother's guardian, then? What a nightmare. Yep, they need to do something about their will. I hope they come around, it just may take time. Try not to worry too much because there really isn't anything you can do about it. FWIW, they (your mom and her husband) should have separate wills, each one stipulates primary beneficiaries and secondary beneficiaries (which kick in if the primary beneficiary has died). An attorney will explain all of this to them.

[Scarlett]

Just now, TechWife said:

 

Is your sister her brother's guardian, then? What a nightmare. Yep, they need to do something about their will. I hope they come around, it just may take time. Try not to worry too much because there really isn't anything you can do about it. FWIW, they (your mom and her husband) should have separate wills, each one stipulates primary beneficiaries and secondary beneficiaries (which kick in if the primary beneficiary has died). An attorney will explain all of this to them.

Yes they had a will which laid all of that out...it was all divided equally between us 4.  But then my brother went nuts and my step brother is in a nursing home....so they tore the will up....but what I can't get them to understand is that by default it will still mean the same thing but with more headaches if there is no will.

My sister is not her brother's guardian....he actually doesn't have one....she could easily become the guardian if need be, but he is so 'out of it' that he thinks she is in control so she just takes care of things. He is terminal.  He is already on borrowed time.  ?

[Scarlett]

So I just had this conversation with my mom.  I told her the IRS refunded me some money and I am not sure why.

She told me the state of AR just sent her a bill for $70. I asked why.  Oh a penalty or some such for not paying her quarterly taxes.  I said I thought you were going to fix that?  She said I did fix it I moved out of AR.  I said well OK has the same rules.  She said well it is already June.  I said and? She says well what is the point now....I said they are making you pay quarterly because you don't have enough withheld right? She says  'they don't with hold anything.  You have to pay taxes on your retirement'.  I said, 'yes, so make the change where they do withhold and then you won't have to file quarterly and get penalized when you forget'.  She says ' I don't want to talk about this anymore'.  I said 'why?'  She said unless I wanted to pay her taxes.  I said, ' I don't understand you.  This has been going on for years.  Just fix it. And it really isn't like you '.

She said  'maybe I have Alzheimer's.'.  And you guys can't read tone but trust me she does not think that.

so I was silent.  Then she says 'did I tell you (cousins) daughters made her go to the doctor  see if she has Alzheimer's? '

I said what if you do? She says 'I probably wouldn't know it'   I said 'correct'.

so I hung up.  Just now she texts me....minutes after we hung up to tell me OK will send her a notice quarterly that her taxes are due.  I said, 'but if you would fix your withholdings you wouldn't have to pay quarterly '

 

this is me smashing my head into my keyboard. 

 

[StephanieZ]

On 5/28/2018 at 12:54 PM, Garga said:

 

 

Are UTIs different for older adults than for younger people?  Those things HURT, especially if you let them go on longer than a couple of days.  If she had a UTI, wouldn’t she be saying something?  

I can see saying to have a person who is completely in dementia tested, if they’re unable to communicate to those around them, but for someone who is having mild memory/observant issues yet can still communicate perfectly to those around her, wouldn’t she know she if she had a UTI issue?

Or do UTIs present differently for different people and they don’t feel in pain every minute of the day from them?

I’m not picking on you.  I just see this suggestion a lot when an adult is showing memory issues and I’ve wondered for a while now how it would not be glaringly obvious that they’re in pain and have a UTI (unless they’re completely non-communicative.)

 

Yes, UTIs can present differently in elderly people and thus are often missed, much to the detriment of the patient.

However, note that routine urine screens throughout pregnancy look for asymptomatic UTIs (among other things). Aysmptomatic UTIs are not restricted to elderly people, just more dangerous in elderly people.

In elderly people, the ONLY symptom of a UTI is not infrequently mental deterioration that mimics dementia. So far as I know, that symptom is not seen in younger patients. 

My mom had many UTIs and we tested her routinely for them whenever her mental status changed at all. In fact, when she had her first major stroke, I thought she just had a UTI because previously, her UTIs had caused such severe symptoms. Her medical doctor also assumed it was a UTI. I had to argue (a lot, loudly, for hours) to get the CT scan that identified her massive stroke, because her doctor (an expert geriatrician who was the lead doctor at her department at our medical school) really believed Mom's symptoms were from a UTI. (I totally expected that, too, but wanted the CT scan to rule out a stroke . . . just in case.)

Google it up for more details. It's a well documented and common phenomenon.