No Target, No Wal-Mart--so Where?

[Garga]

There are a lot of people who don't like Target or Wal-Mart (because they're mean to their employees, everything is from China, the quality is low, etc...). So if you don't shop there--where do you shop? Where do you get sheets and batteries and can openers and toys and Christmas decorations?

 

I'm serious. I don't really like Target or Wal-Mart either about half of the time. But where would I go?

[Elaine]

There are a lot of people who don't like Target or Wal-Mart (because they're mean to their employees, everything is from China, the quality is low, etc...). So if you don't shop there--where do you shop? Where do you get sheets and batteries and can openers and toys and Christmas decorations?

 

I'm serious. I don't really like Target or Wal-Mart either about half of the time. But where would I go?

 

I still go to Target and Wal-Mart and I don't feel guilty about it. Right now I have bigger fish to fry than Wal-Mart's non-union stance and Target's cheap Chinese products.

[chaik76]

I go to both. And Kmart. Actually, if I want to shop where I am, Wal Mart and Kmart are the only choices. If I didn't go to them, there would be nowhere to go. I like Target best of the three, but it is 45 minutes away.

[jamnkats]

Here in Mexico we have lots of alternatives. When we're in the US we go to thriftstores.

[Only me]

I was anti-Walmart until recently when I read a book that talked about Walmart. I know that a lot of the people in the factories who manufacture the goods work in poor conditions in China, etc. What I didn't realize was that a lot of those people are a lot better off working at these factories then they were before. Of course I still think it is horrible but believe it or not working 16 hour days in bad conditions still put a roof over their heads and food in their stomach. Before they had the factory jobs they had to do a lot worse things.

[LG Gone Wild]

There are a lot of people who don't like Target or Wal-Mart (because they're mean to their employees, everything is from China, the quality is low, etc...). So if you don't shop there--where do you shop? Where do you get sheets and batteries and can openers and toys and Christmas decorations?

 

I'm serious. I don't really like Target or Wal-Mart either about half of the time. But where would I go?

 

On-line, seriously. Let's see, I use drugstore.com a lot. Costco gets a lot of our business (batteries, engine oil, sheets) and I recently started shopping at melaleuca.com. I have a Pottery Barn outlet if I want to get fancy.

 

I don't have to shop with kids (always a complete nightmare, quickly turns me into a shrill harpy).

[KidsHappen]

Well since I moved I have been using Publix a lot since it is practically in my back yard. They have most household supplies. I don't really hace the need to buy much in the way of the other things that you listed but if so I can get them at costco or on-line. Also Bed, Bath, and Beyond. Ross, TJ Maxx, Marshalls. Jc Penneys. We also use Whole Foods. I could easily give up those two if I was so inclined.

[texascamps]

I'm okay with Wal-mart and Target. My biggest complaint with both is that everything they sell is made in China and its junk. If they wanted to, they could completely change the economy of this nation by having a "purchase from the USA" policy. But since we live in a global economy, I don't see that happening. I think that Wal-mart going Union would ruin it and if they ever fall to the unions, I'd be inclined not to shop there. Last year I avoided both because they wouldn't even call a Christmas tree a Christmas tree, or a Christmas ornament a Christmas ornament. We'll see about this year. Also, I thought Target getting rid of Salvation Army because of its religious bent was a mistake.....oh, and the year they wouldn't use the word Easter ticked me off. Puleeeeze!!!! If they want my "holiday" money, they better not be ashamed of the darned word.

 

Sears was non-Christmas a few years ago, but for last year they were all about Christmas and I think this year they are going the same route. I got an email supported by Snopes that said Sears employees in the armed services are given a pay differential when they are called up. They actually make up the difference in pay if there is any. I think this is a nice policy. I like Sears and go to them when I can. Their clothing quality is better than Wal-mart or Target and they have very chic ladies clothes. I buy my husband's Carhartt jeans there, (better than Levis, Lees or Wranglers, won't wrinkle or pucker like the other brands) and I like that they sell Land's End stuff there, also.

 

So, I shop everywhere until Christmas time and sees who falls prey to Political Correctness. I try whenever possible to buy USA made products, though its hard to do. I like buying used items as well.

 

Costco has a good record of employee fairness but they are anti-Christmas, and by golly they don't want to offend anyone by saying the "C" word.

 

Oh, and by the way, China and Malaysia and Indonesia can thank the US personally for elevating much of their population out of poverty because we have built their economies with our money. Remember, the oil crisis was caused by China's and India's demand for oil to power all the cars their citizens were all of a sudden able to buy with US dollars.

 

Oh, and although Wal-mart has put many small businesses out of business, the big box effect started at the turn of the century with department stores and the demise of corner hardware stores and groceries. Its not like Wal-mart came up with it. Wal-mart is just a department store with a successful business model. Lots of people hate success. Sears and JcPenney used to sell household items like detergent and soap then stopped I don't remember anyone going crazy over their business practices. Anyone remember Gibson's? Its easy to blame Wal-mart for the ills of the world.

[sagira]

I wasn't aware of the outcries, but we shop here for misc. things:

 

The Dollar Store

Marshall's

Nordstrom Rack

Oshkosh B'Gosh

Kmart

BJ's

Publix

 

Combined you can find almost anything. I absolutely despise shopping at my nearest Walmart (40 minutes) -- it's loud, dirty, noisy and filled with people who bump you with carts and don't care. I haven't been in a year or two, and you would have to drag me there.

 

That said, I used to like Target for kids clothes until I found OshKosh Outlet and Nordstrom Rack both which have better quality for the same prices :)

[Retired]

I can't stand going to the store the size of a small town square and buying everything from China.

 

It is the necessary evil of our day.

 

PBS frontline has a free online video "Is Walmart Good For America?"

 

It shows both sides of the debate. China made vs US made

 

Very good program

[Colleen]

I can't stand going to the store the size of a small town square and buying everything from China.

 

It is the necessary evil of our day.

 

 

 

It's actually not necessary, but the more people assume that to be the case, the more it'll become so.

[Colleen]

Without getting in to my opinion of particular stores, I'll just offer encouragement to shop and buy local, and limit your purchases to what you truly need. That's what I do the vast majority of the time and I can assure you it'll save you a TON of money in the long run. You wouldn't believe how much moola I save NOT buying stuff because it's not available to me unless I cross my boundaries, so to speak.

 

Having said that, I don't cheer lead for anyone who claims to be above the fray simply because they never shop at, say, Target. There are all manner of shoddy substitutes for places like Tar-jay.

 

As an aside, please consider reading Stacy Mitchell's Big Box Swindle: The True Cost Mega-Retailers and the Fight for America's Independent Businesses. Well worth your time.

[Night Elf]

I save money buying the same products at Walmart than other places. In this economy, that's a priority for me. I shop for products I want and need and don't stress about the store name.

 

I do use a small family owned pet store for dog food. I found it by looking to see who sold the particular brand of dog food I wanted at the time.

 

I don't have a problem with small family owned stores. I just don't know about many. Everything around me seems big business except for little restaurants. I don't know of any small stores that sell clothing such as socks, underwear, tshirts, jeans, and shoes. My choices are Walmart, Kohls, Target, and the mall with stores like JCPenney, Sears, Macys and Dillards.

[TraceyS/FL]

My serious question on this is.... if you can't find something local in independent shops, i hear lots of people buying online instead. But aren't those online places just as guilty of taking jobs away from the local guys?

 

I don't see online shopping helping my community at all - no tax benefits since most online places don't charge my states tax and send it to my community. No helping the mom pick up some extra hours working retail to feed the family at night.

 

Frankly, right now, i'd rather the stores in my town (that are mostly all new in the last 5 years) STAY open so i don't have to go back to driving an hour each way to shop. And that means spending money in my community.

 

Which translates to lower tax increases for me - i'm tired as a homeowner feeling all the burden in this area. Raise Property taxes is not the answer - spread it around please.... here is a thought - charge everyone with a car registered an extra $50. We have no personal property taxes on autos here in FL. OOps, i think i got sidetracked.... can you tell i opened the prop tax bill this week? :tongue_smilie:

 

ANYWAY, if my choices were online or in my community at WM/Target/Independent - local is going to win out unless we are talking $50 savings on something.

[chiguirre]

I do most of my grocery shopping at Walmart and Target. Their prices and selection completely beat Randall's (Safeway), Kroger and HEB. I do support unionizing Walmart and if there was a picket line, I wouldn't cross it, but in the meantime I'm not going to shop an upscale supermarket for canned beans, KWIM?

[Erica in PA]

I still go to Target and Wal-Mart and I don't feel guilty about it. Right now I have bigger fish to fry than Wal-Mart's non-union stance and Target's cheap Chinese products.

 

Same here. I actually don't know a single person IRL who avoids either of these stores. I love Target, and find Walmart to be very useful and inexpensive, so I shop both often.

[Garga]

Thanks for the responses. I just wondered where the rest of the world went. I go to Wal-Mart for everything. I only feel guilty because my parents worked at Wal-Mart for years and they really are pretty mean to their employees. Also, it depends on where you live whether or not Wal-Mart has rude customers. When I lived in the Baltimore area the customers were awful. My mother (who worked there, remember) used to get pushed around all the time. One time she got pushed by a customer so hard she got a huge black bruise on her arm. But now that we live in a semi-rural area (Gettysburg is 7 miles up the road) I found a Wal-Mart that's almost empty all the time. It's lovely! I can just stand there in an aisle and comparison shop with no other customers around me. Lovely! We're very frugal and, honestly, Wal-Mart is about all I can afford. We shop for clothes at Good Will type of frugal. I did all my shopping for the week at Wal-Mart once, then AFTER it was rung up realized I didn't have my wallet. So, I went home, got the wallet and went to the local grocery store (Wal-Mart is 25 mins from the house). I got the exact same items and the bill was $30 more. Wal-Mart is just cheaper.

[Ellie]

I don't go to either one just because I don't :-) In California neither one had groceries (although that may have changed in the last 4 years, or in different parts of the state), some of the stores are nasty/dirty, and I'm not overly fond of their clothes or household items. (I didn't shop at KMart, either.)

 

Sheets? I bought some at JCPenney, a set at Costco, and I'm looking on-line for some others.

 

Batteries? Costco. Or Walgreens. Or, here in Texas, H.E.B. Groceries? Randall's (which is a Safeway store) or Albertson's, or Central Market, or H.E.B. (not my favorite store, BTW, but it's close).

 

I don't have any particular ethics involved in not shopping at WalMart/Target; I just don't like them.

[Jenny in Florida]

Same here. I actually don't know a single person IRL who avoids either of these stores.

 

That's interesting, because I know many. It must be the circles in which I travel.

 

To answer the original question, I quit shopping at Wal-Mart several years ago due to a combination of protest and just plain disgust. I got tired of dirty stores, incompetent and rude clerks and dreadful customer service. I eventually decided that saving a little bit of money just wasn't worth it. It just so happened that my personal breaking point coincided with the beginning of the flood of information about the company's business practices, which gave me the nudge I needed.

 

I do still shop at Target, for a variety of reasons. The stores are clean, the clerks mostly attentive and pleasant (which I tend to assume means they are reasonbly well treated), and the merchandise is nicer. I also like their charitable giving and the fact that they give to NPR. Responsible Shopper grades Target slightly above Wal-Mart and K-Mart. On that list [ http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/responsibleshopper/industry/bigboxretailer.cfm ], Target is the "best" of the actual big-box retailers. I, personally, don't find any of the first three to be comparable in terms of selection or convenience.

 

I do make an effort, though, to buy less, to buy from other places, and to select good products when I do shop. As someone else said, I buy a lot of "stuff" (batteries, toilet paper, cleaning supplies) from Publix. We don't buy a lot of toys, and when we do we tend to be unintersted in plastic stuff from China, anyway. I do buy many of my son's clothers at Target. Lately, though, my daughter has been buying most of her clothes from Kohl's (#2 on the list of big-box retailers). I prefer Lane Bryant, which belongs to a corporate group that has a pretty good reputation.

 

It's not a perfect solution, but I consider the effort a work in progress.

[rafiki]

.

[Remudamom]

I go to Walmart and love it. It's the only store within a 20 mile radius.

[Colleen]

My serious question on this is.... if you can't find something local in independent shops, i hear lots of people buying online instead. But aren't those online places just as guilty of taking jobs away from the local guys?

 

Yes.

 

I don't see online shopping helping my community at all - no tax benefits since most online places don't charge my states tax and send it to my community. No helping the mom pick up some extra hours working retail to feed the family at night.

 

Generally speaking, I agree. ("Generally" because even online businesses have people, somewhere, working for them.) I rarely shop online.

[Colleen]

I still go to Target and Wal-Mart and I don't feel guilty about it. Right now I have bigger fish to fry than Wal-Mart's non-union stance and Target's cheap Chinese products.

 

Even those who are particularly conscience about how we vote with our dollars have some fairly large fish to fry. It isn't as if intentionally avoiding ~ or conversely, supporting ~ particular stores, etc. is laborious.

[Medieval Mom]

We're blessed by living in a town with quite a few local shops. I try to avoid all big-box stores when I can find an alternative elsewhere. (Mostly, I'm biased because I grew up in a lovely small town with lots of local butchers, bakers and candlestick makers that is now an indistinguishable, boring, desolate place after Walmart settled in...)

 

I buy our groceries from the local co-op, local employee-owned grocery store, and Amish general store. Frankly, we don't buy a whole lot besides groceries! It's a lot easier for us to be frugal by simply not buying than to shop Walmart..

 

I know this is going to sound "Little House on the Prairie-ish", but I try to buy wool from local farmers, spin it, knit our own sweaters and socks, etc. I buy other clothes from a local clothing department store (very high-quality, but I shop the sales...). We have just a few clothes that we wear again and again and again. (Living in a small house with few closets, this is rather a necessity!) I purchased mom-made snap cloth diapers and cut up all my old flannel nightgowns for wipes, etc. Often, I find, if I do things the "old-fashioned way", I both save money and the environment. I don't need to buy a product to wash the windows, if my good old recipe for "Sparkle Spritz" works wonderfully! Now, mind you, I'm not trying to say that everyone should go back to this kind of living... It's just that I'm a geek and enjoy these things.;)

 

For batteries, appliances, etc., our local hardware store has a great many items for the same price as you would find online or in Wal-mart, etc. I admit to being an online shopper for things like school supplies, which I buy mostly from Rainbow Resource. And I do buy books from amazon... Toys we buy from a local toyshop. Hmm... But, there are times when we simply cannot find what we need without a little trip to Target. I'd say we hit the store about 3-4 times a year. The store is clean, the staff friendly and helpful, etc.

 

Also, on the insistence of a friend, I shopped at the local Wal-mart for groceries and bought--- not a thing. First of all, there were very few items that I actually had on my list (we tend to buy whole, natural foods). Secondly, the prices were mostly MORE expensive than our locally owned stores!:confused:

 

I don't put down anyone who chooses to shop at Walmart, though. (My in-laws from Norway always exclaim "I LOVE Walmart!" and go nuts having fun there.) So we do wander around aimlessly with them once a year when they visit. They're always astounded that I don't buy anything, and explain it away by my Scotch heritage. Sigh.

 

I'm just a silly old fuddy duddy who likes to shop where the shop-owners know your name, know their product inside and out, are helpful and knowledgeable, etc. And even though I realize it isn't the only or even best answer, I do try to buy "Made in USA", even writing to companies like Pendleton and Gold Toe socks when suddenly half their items were suddenly made off-shore. I also CAN'T STAND the current trend of TVs everywhere. See? I really am lost in time...;) Helpless, I know.

[Crissy]

As an aside, please consider reading Stacy Mitchell's Big Box Swindle: The True Cost Mega-Retailers and the Fight for America's Independent Businesses. Well worth your time.

 

 

Thanks for that recommendation, Colleen. I picked it up during my trip to the library this morning. I also found A Year Without Made in China. Have you read it?

[motherofjoy]

Any big box store is at least an hour away from me. I use Amazon for a wide variety of my purchases (things I can't buy in my very small town), sheets are often a very good price at Amazon. With my Amazon Prime account, I get most things in a day or two, and when I do pay shipping, its much less than gasoline. Other online merchants too. I try to buy local when I can, raise a lot of my own food, don't buy things just to buy them (I haven't been in a mall in years). I'm not a shopper. When I need something specific, I buy that thing, not a lot of other stuff I don't need. Most of my children's clothes were second hand or bought at places like outlet stores, they're old enough now to make their own choices and they still prefer bargains, and sometimes, that means Target or Walmart. I don't have a problem with buying at Wal Mart or Target if I happen to be close to one and there's something I need. There isn't any more "made in china" or "junk" there than any store.

[TammyinTN]

There are a lot of people who don't like Target or Wal-Mart (because they're mean to their employees, everything is from China, the quality is low, etc...). So if you don't shop there--where do you shop? Where do you get sheets and batteries and can openers and toys and Christmas decorations?

 

I'm serious. I don't really like Target or Wal-Mart either about half of the time. But where would I go?

 

 

I haven't been in a Wal-Mart/Target in 3 1/2 years since living in Europe. I decorate with live greenery from local farmers and get loads of my produce right from the fields. I buy bread locally from a German family and I don't miss Wal-Mart or Target one bit. Batteries I buy at the commissary if I need them, toys these days are electronics, bows and arrows, and games we play as a family. We bike, walk or hike and so junk isn't necessary for that. I also no longer buy things I don't plan reusing for many years. I invested in tasteful decorations from here in Germany that are handmade. I honestly thought leaving the US would be hard, but have found that less is better and to only have things that you really enjoy in your home...no junk!:D

[YJ in AL]

I like online shopping because it frees up more time for my family. However, there are times where getting out and looking for something in particular and finding a good deal is a good thing!

 

If not Wal-Mart or Target, we go to Publix, Dollar General, Family Dollar, or Dollar Tree.

 

Yvonne in Alabama

[jamnkats]

I haven't been in a Wal-Mart/Target in 3 1/2 years since living in Europe. I decorate with live greenery from local farmers and get loads of my produce right from the fields. I buy bread locally from a German family and I don't miss Wal-Mart or Target one bit. Batteries I buy at the commissary if I need them, toys these days are electronics, bows and arrows, and games we play as a family. We bike, walk or hike and so junk isn't necessary for that. I also no longer buy things I don't plan reusing for many years. I invested in tasteful decorations from here in Germany that are handmade. I honestly thought leaving the US would be hard, but have found that less is better and to only have things that you really enjoy in your home...no junk!:D

 

It will be interesting to see what happens this year. We've been away for 4 years and while the kids are chomping at the bit to go to Target (and me to thriftstores), I wonder if we'll really need all the stuff we think we will...but we have the craziest stuff on our "list" (all the ex-pats keep a running list of "stuff to get"). Organic PB, vitamin C, diatomaceous earth... :)

[Obi-Mom Kenobi]

I'll just offer encouragement to shop and buy local, and limit your purchases to what you truly need.

 

I have to go with Colleen here. My needs are few but when I do need to buy something, I get it at a local, family-owned hardware or grocery store, restaurant, or etc. if at all possible. We are members of a local farm's share program for fresh summer and fall veggies and a year-round food co-op for meat, cheese, fruit and eggs. I get recycled paper products in bulk from Amazon (TP, "monthly" supplies, paper towels) and have started shopping at consignment stores for clothes. I don't try to make a statement out of my shopping habits. I simply do what I think is right for me, my family and my community.

[Grace is Sufficient]

As long as they stay non-union, they will be my first choice. Unfortunately, the one here is a smaller store without groceries, and I buy clothes at the thrift store when I can, and I have always been minimalist with buying... so I don't actually support their non-union stance with as many dollars as I would like. But, hey, we do what we can!