Teen boys and hair.

[Tracey in TX]

He IS!!!

 

And yeah, I don't get the "being mistaken for a GIRL" horror story.

 

My dude is here: http://hmsindefatigable.blogspot.com/2008/05/hugo.html

He put on a tie in that photo to aid people who were confused :lol:

 

He's 10 & has had long hair since he was about 6. He just really hated having it cut & we had an adult male friend of the family who had a ponytail down past his shoulders so it seemed quite normal to him to just grow it out.

 

When we went to Mexico one year, his hair was just growing out & he had some of the little braids put in, with 'manly' blue & black beads :tongue_smilie:

 

Actually, I find the really short/shaved hair on young boys kind of scary looking sometimes. The connotation for that hairstyle for me is one of violence & armed conflict so it's not a look I find particularly appealing. Some people can carry it off & I know a couple people who shave completely or clipper very short & they make it work, but it's not my fave hairstyle. On young children it just reminds me of concentration camp photos.

 

If it was up to me, I'd probably lob ds's hair off either in an Eton crop

http://www.rupert-graves.com/vista/arwav/photos/arwav/010.jpg like Freddy Honeychurch & all the other young guys in A Room with a View

or a nice layered cut like this:

http://www.allmoviephoto.com/photo/2005_the_worlds_fastest_indian_007_big.html

 

However, he hasn't asked for my input on this subject :D

omgosh, he is darling! What a cutie pie :) He could be a model. My children could never grow hair that long; it just isn't in the genetic make up.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I decided long ago hair would not be an issue to me. I went through many, many hideous hairstyles/colors as a tween/teen/young adult. My boys happen to like their hair short. They like to go to the barber and each boy gets to tell the barber how to cut his hair. If they didn't want it cut, I wouldn't care.

I will point out a bit of my own hypocracy, though. My dd4 wanted a buzz cut and I did not let her get one. She was a baldy until two years old and just got to the point that she had long, beautiful hair. I let her get it cut in a "Posh Spice" cut right at chin level. It is adorable and she loves it. I just couldn't bear the thought of all her hair coming off when it took so long for it to grow. I even made the barber promise not to cut it if dh took her in. Dh says next summer if she wants one, she will get it, because it will be so much easier when we swim every day and he hates to brush it. If she still wants a buzz come summer, I'll probably let her, but I won't be able to watch.

ETA: I don't mean to hijack a teen thread...but its never to early to think about some things, right?

Edited November 10, 2008 by MeanestMomInMidwest

[Kris]

Not a hill to die on here. My son went for 5 years without a haircut once.

 

This is him about 4 years ago, before he broke down and cut his hair.

 

 

What a great picture!

 

I'm with you -- I'm trying to pick my battles.

 

My son and his two best friends all had really, really long, ponytail hair. Just recently, he was talking about cutting it. Now, the other two have, and my son is the only one with the long hair.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Also, in contrast to a previous poster, my son was completely able to reach a red belt in karate and play competitive tennis with long hair. He just uses a headband or puts it up in a ponytail.

 

That part did sound odd to me. First off, I know of situations like you describe, but also, look at all the GIRLS that do just fine with a ponytail. Seems silly to suggest it'd be an issue for a boy.

[Retired]

I am not or never listen to death metal music but the following video is of a man with long hair who is a born again Christian.

 

I have read his autobiography

 

I understand some people believe that all Christian should look a certain way and would not befriend this man.

 

He wouldn't even be accepted at some of your churches.

 

http://youtube.com/wathc?v=dymhp-9WZdI

 

 

I wonder if Jesus really cares about his hair or the wonderful testimony he is sharing on national TV

[Ria]

I have five sons. I prefer to be able to see their eyes, so they can cut it or comb/push it out of their faces if need be. Right now most have fairly short hair. The college boy has the longest hair. None of them have wanted to dye their hair, but if they do,fine... that too shall pass. Not a hill to die on.

 

My only hard and fast rule about hair is that it needs to be clean. :)

 

Dh and I did tell them that nothing permanent (tattoo or piercing) can be done until they are an adult and supporting themselves (ie, graduated from college since we are paying for that). If, at that point, as an independent adult, they choose to pierce or tattoo, that's fine.

 

Ria

[Nestof3]

That part did sound odd to me. First off, I know of situations like you describe, but also, look at all the GIRLS that do just fine with a ponytail. Seems silly to suggest it'd be an issue for a boy.

 

I was only saying things my son has said to me. And I am not dying on any hill over this -- he has chosen his own hairstyle based on what he likes. And, he is quite good looking, if I do say so myself (you can seehim on my blog). Why is it that his opinion is not worth anything (since we are talking about teen sons' hair), but all of the ladies' opinions are here?

[pqr]

I'm going to have to disagree with you. I sat in a courtroom for 11 years of my life, both juvenile and adult criminal court. Haircuts and dress had absolutly no bearing on anything. In fact, we had more conservative children in the juvie system than what you refer to as odd. Way more.

 

Lets be fair, how many of them are dressed that way because their lawyer or father said "Son get a haircut before you go in there and wear long sleves to cover those tats."

 

Further, as most kids still have fairly short hair and few tattoos one would expect the majority of offenders still to be conservatively dressed. As a percentage, however, I would still argue that the numbers still indicate that those with excessive tattoos and unconventional hair or piercings represent a disproportionate amount of offenders.

Edited November 10, 2008 by pqr

[Obi-Mom Kenobi]

My rule for Padawan Learner is that it must be clean and can't stink, out of courtesy to the people around him.

 

Some people's hair holds smells better than others (PL is one of them), so he has to be sure to really, really scrub it down daily and rinse it out more than once when it's shaggy (5-7" long from the crown). Usually he doesn't mind doing this, but sometimes he decides he wants a break from all the work necessary to keep it clean and sweet smelling, so he gets it trimmed to about 2 inches and then lets it grow for 6 months again.

 

The funny thing is that PL can't leave his hair combed his hair if he wants it to look decent. He's got so much natural wave to it that he has to comb it out, to break apart any knots, and then muss it up with his hands before it dries! If he lets it dried combed, it curls up from the ends while staying plastered to his head near the crown. :lol:

[chaik76]

Lets be fair, how many of them are dressed that way because their lawyer or father said "Son get a haircut before you go in there and wear long sleves to cover those tats."

 

Further, as most kids still have fairly short hair and few tattoos one would expect the majority of offenders still to be conservatively dressed. As a percentage, however, I would still argue that the numbers still indicate that those with excessive tattoos and unconventional hair or piercings represent a disproportionate amount of offenders.

Has anyone done a study on this? I'm just curious.

[texascamps]

Short hair (not super short) here.

 

Long hair, tats, ear guaging, etc. are symptoms or by-products of "issues." If my kids want to have identity issues then we'll deal with those issues. But no long hair, earrings, tattoos, etc.

 

 

And yes, to the person just above me. Any good lawyer will tell their long haired, tatooed client to "clean up" before facing a jury or a judge because why? Looks do affect the way people act as well as how they are treated and judged by others. Right or wrong, its truth.

 

If my kids want to stand out, we'll look for other ways.

[chaik76]

Perhaps they are not. Or perhaps they won't be when they are 45 but can't possibly look presentable.

 

Of course, this is WAY off the topic of hair which can ALWAYS be rehabilitated (differently colored, cut, etc) until one goes bald. But one could NEVER have their ear look presentable after having a coke can in it!

Actually, with surgery it wouldn't be noticeable that the hole was big enough for a coke can. All you would know is that the person had surgery on their ear.

 

I've honestly known very few people who have been dissatisfied with the piercings or tattoos they chose when they got older. There have been a few, of course.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Lets be fair, how many of them are dressed that way because their lawyer or father said "Son get a haircut before you go in there and wear long sleves to cover those tats."

 

Further, as most kids still have fairly short hair and few tattoos one would expect the majority of offenders still to be conservatively dressed. As a percentage, however, I would still argue that the numbers still indicate that those with excessive tattoos and unconventional hair or piercings represent a disproportionate amount of offenders.

Correlation does not equal causation

[Just Me]

I haven't read all the replies, but my oldest ds does have long-ish hair. And he spends almost no time on it! He washes it every day, and then shakes it out to dry. Just like his Dear 'ol dad did when he was in high school and I was dating him!

 

I happen to (usually) like longer hair on a guy, so this is a non-issue for me.

[Tracey in TX]

That part did sound odd to me. First off, I know of situations like you describe, but also, look at all the GIRLS that do just fine with a ponytail. Seems silly to suggest it'd be an issue for a boy.

Our gym requires all competitive team boys to have very short hair. It's not the USAG policy, it's our gym. Several boys have gone elsewhere for this reason. It's an issue our gym owner feels important, but seems kind of silly to me.

[jamnkats]

He IS!!!

 

And yeah, I don't get the "being mistaken for a GIRL" horror story.

 

My dude is here: http://hmsindefatigable.blogspot.com/2008/05/hugo.html

He put on a tie in that photo to aid people who were confused :lol:

 

 

 

Why THANK YOU. And your dude is quite a gorgeous little dude! He looks so familiar! I must have stalked your blog once or twice before. :)

[tibbyl]

I'm not sure whether to take offense or not. What a horror to be mistaken for a GIRL! How AWFUL it would be if someone thought you were a (shiver) GIRL! Why would being a girl be such an awful thing?

 

Maybe it much less than that - it is hard to tell from your post what his attitude is, but I think it helps to examine why it would be so awful to be mistaken for a girl.

 

My 14yo looks very girlish and is very secure in his gender. I honestly could not care less what sex he identifies with but he identifies as a male.

 

 

I think he is gorgeous, but I'm a bit prejudiced. :)

 

I agree.

 

I am always puzzled by people who are unnerved or who come unglued when they are unable to determine gender of person by assessing their physical appearance. Is their sense of self so shaky that it can be rocked by androgynous look?

 

As long as a person is in compliance with law regarding appearance, it matters not an iota (to me) how they dress, how they style their hair, or whether they choose body modifications.

 

I may not like the message on their tshirt or their hairstyle or the sight of plumber's crack, but they are within their rights. Of course, if person is my child, then I do have a say so that I may choose to exercise if I deem appropriate.

 

The unconventionally-appearing person is the one who suffers any negative consequences associated with his/her appearance.

Edited November 11, 2008 by tibbyl

[tibbyl]

Not a hill to die on here. My son went for 5 years without a haircut once.

 

This is him about 4 years ago, before he broke down and cut his hair.

 

 

 

What a handsome fellow. Looks like he took pains to look way he did. Very reggae-ish.

[tibbyl]

I think he is gorgeous, but I'm a bit prejudiced. :)

 

Classically handsome fellow you have.

[tibbyl]

He IS!!! And yeah, I don't get the "being mistaken for a GIRL" horror story.

 

My dude is here: http://hmsindefatigable.blogspot.com/2008/05/hugo.html

He put on a tie in that photo to aid people who were confused :lol:

 

He's 10 & has had long hair since he was about 6. He just really hated having it cut & we had an adult male friend of the family who had a ponytail down past his shoulders so it seemed quite normal to him to just grow it out.

 

Gorgeous kid. Anton is cute too.

[Murphy101]

hmmm...

Is there middle ground or am I floating at sea and don't know it?;)

 

We don't care much about hair. See their eyes and it's clean is fine by us.

 

However, I would strongly disagree that we have abdicated any rules of appearance.

 

We do not allow any dirty, holey, ill-fitting clothes. Period. No holey or ripped or patched jeans, no baggy or tight pants, no stained up shirts. It's not open to negotiation. As a matter of fact, the minute anything reaches that stage, it is removed from the closet.

 

We also would never allow a tattoo on a minor. Once they leave, well I might not like it, depends on where they got it and what they got, but that's the hazzards of adulthood - mom gets no say.

 

Piercings are for ears only. And dh says for girls only. All our girls have had thier ears pierced by the time they were a month old. None of my boys are even remotely interested in getting their ears pierced. I think because we do it only for baby girls they have just assumed it's a girly thing. Right up there with painted fingernails. They think it's rather odd that any boy would do it.

 

Which brings me to the other thing.. boys should look male. I think it would bother both dh and I if our boys presented themselves in a feminine manner. Just as we would not want our girls to look masculine. The hair cut or lack of alone wouldn't be the issue. Some girls look rather cute and pixie-ish with short hair for example, while other girls look boy-ish. Same things for boys I would think?

 

So, we wouldn't fight over long hair or an ear piercing for our teen boys. I wouldn't care for it. Dh would tease about ripping the earring out. (Which is what HIS dad actually did when he came home and found his 16 yr old son asleep on the sofa with a new attachment!) I've never been attracted to guys with those features. I view it as feminine and have never been interested in a guy more into "girly stuff" than me. But I don't imagine it matters to teen boys if they are attractive their mother.;)

[Kris]

Also, in contrast to a previous poster, my son was completely able to reach a red belt in karate and play competitive tennis with long hair. He just uses a headband or puts it up in a ponytail.

 

I didn't see this post, but my son's long hair hasn't been an issue as far as his participation in Taekwondo and tournaments is concerned -- not as far as I know, anyway. If his scores have been lower because of his ponytail, I haven't noticed!

 

Actually, the people who run our school are wonderful, and I'm grateful to them (and I think they are conservative Christians, if that means anything) for helping me in the "tolerance" department by leading by example. Tats, piercings, long hair, "odd" or Goth clothes -- nothing phases these people. They really don't appear to even notice stuff like this. And I have to say it's really helped me "break out" of my shell -- and I must be doing this, because even Sweetie has commented on it -- because it shows me that they won't be judging me, either. And what a relief *that* is! 'Cause there's plenty to chew on there, if the mood were to strike! :D

 

That said, it is unacceptable *behavior* that they will not tolerate. But they don't assume that people will behave badly based on their appearance. They wait for them to actually do it -- and right now? The worst offender in our school is a nice, clean-cut looking kid who is basically "doing a number" on everyone he knows.

[Murphy101]

oh and I'm not assuming anything of anyone who is different, much less that they are "bad" in some way.

 

it's just our personal expectations and requirements of our own children:)

[fivetails]

 

Long hair, tats, ear guaging, etc. are symptoms or by-products of "issues."

 

eh?

 

Y'know, some people just like those things on themselves. :)

[Reya]

His hair, his body, his decisions. I don't interfere in my kids decisions about their bodies.

 

Mostly my stance, but let me modify this to, "I don't interfere in my kids' TEMPORARY decisions about their bodies."

 

Permanent changes and life-changing decisions are another matter. But I do have a motto: If you choose to look like a freak, you may not get offended when people treat you like a freak.

[Joanne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dot

Also, in contrast to a previous poster, my son was completely able to reach a red belt in karate and play competitive tennis with long hair. He just uses a headband or puts it up in a ponytail.

 

I didn't see this post, but my son's long hair hasn't been an issue as far as his participation in Taekwondo and tournaments is concerned -- not as far as I know, anyway. If his scores have been lower because of his ponytail, I haven't noticed!

 

My youngest, who just earned his green belt, has long hair. One of his instructors is bothered by long hair on boys. My son chose to have the front cut shorter.

 

I

do have a question though. When did this belief system evolve that children be allowed to make decisions about dress and appearance? What my son wears and how he appears reflects not only on himself but on his mother, on me and on his siblings. He will conform to the norms, while erring to the conservative.

 

Huh. Social "norms", as you call them, are arbitrary. Short hair, long hair, blue, red or pink hair do not carry an inherent value. Length does not inherently join gender. Our (rather fuzzy now) standard of short hair on boys isn't a Truth that matters. It's a perception fueled only by placing value on arbitrary standards. Sure, impose those standards on your family; it's your right. But be honest with yourself. There is no REAL, authentic and actual value involved in hair choice.

 

Long hair, tats, ear guaging, etc. are symptoms or by-products of "issues." If my kids want to have identity issues then we'll deal with those issues. But no long hair, earrings, tattoos, etc.

 

Passionate adherence to scripted appearance is a by product of "issues" or symptoms of an underlying problem.

 

One of my sons has a modest mowhawk. The other has long hair.

 

My standard is: clean.

 

Hair is not a gateway drug.

[Nestof3]

I am always puzzled by people who are unnerved or who come unglued when they are unable to determine gender of person by assessing their physical appearance. Is their sense of self so shaky that it can be rocked by androgynous look?

 

 

No, my son does not come unglued or unnerved (I have to roll my eyes at your exaggerations.) It's also not that he has to stare and figure out what gender the person is. He just thinks guys with long hair look like girls -- that they look feminine. He likes women to look feminine, guys to look masculine.

 

You are equally entitled to your own opinion. This is a conversation about opinions, is it not?

Edited November 11, 2008 by nestof3

[elegantlion]

oh and I'm not assuming anything of anyone who is different, much less that they are "bad" in some way.

 

it's just our personal expectations and requirements of our own children:)

 

 

Ironically when I met dh 18 years ago (ugh! I'm old!) he had 4 piercings in one ear with nice cubic zirconium studs. My favorite jeans he wore had a big rip under the tush and he wore running tights under them. :D

 

He has mellowed with age and I'm not sure what he would say if ds wanted to pierce an ear.

[Reya]

Are you seriously arguing that what is in the video is not harmful? What do you think their job prospects are (in that many companies would not hire them simply because of their looks)? Is this not harmful?

 

I judge by many factors, and yes appearance does play a part. While I may associate with people with piercings or excessive tattoos there is no way this side of the Continental Divide that I would allow them anywhere near my children.

 

People in the body modification community are generally...troubled, to put it mildly. There's a BIG difference between tattoos and piercings of a modest sort and dramatic body modification. Most in the community are after the pain/endorphin high as much as anything and have some serious masochistic fixations. The association between that and cutting/self-mutilation isn't accidental. Normal human beings avoid self-harm--for obvious reasons. Those who seek it out to that kind of extent are "not normal" for one reason or another.

 

I might also note that implants and most of the more "outrageous" piercings are temporary because the body rejects them after a time. The effects of skin removal and burning are, of course, more permanent, never mind some of the less superficial mutilations.

 

People who engage in these behaviors are rarely functional enough to hold down a decent job outside of the body modification community. So their appearance is a moot point. If you have a kid wanting to do a corset-lacing piercing, you missed the boat on some VERY serious problems years ago. (And for the most part, the parents are usually a good part of the reason someone gets that messed up in the first place...)

 

Now, if you go to body mod forums, you'll hear many assertions of how "normal" they are, but it doesn't take long to realize that there are some extremely nasty things beneath the surface, and it doesn't take much longer to find out what they are, too, in explicit detail, unfortunately. Many of them are in denial; others normalize their experiences. Either way, it's WAY beyond what you'd deal with in any sort of healthy kid.

 

All that said, I know any number of people who feel like/have felt like idiots for their tattoos and have had them removed--or wished they had the money to get them removed.

 

My rules are: NO tattoos. They're a permanent expression of a temporary emotion. NO piercings that are likely to cause complications. (That means no tongue or eyebrow or other "fleshy" part that's infection-prone. Nose and ear are okay, but you can't have so many that they threaten the integrity of the cartilage. Piercings, if they don't cause permanent harm, grow closed.) Free rein on hair, as long as you're paying for it.

 

But you choose how to present yourself to the world, and the world WILL JUDGE YOU accordingly--and has every right to do so! If you make a certain statement, you can't get huffy if people take you at your word, so to speak.

 

On one hand, you have the discreetness of Christian dress. On the other, you have Jesus eating and drinking with the "bad kids," so to speak, in order to teach them. I think an argument can be made for both sides--and a third argument that, in today's society, that it really doesn't matter.

 

To throw in the mix: It would be sad if a person didn't become a Christian because he couldn't get past the fact that it seemed to him that all "Christians" looked down on his hairdo and none looked like him.

Edited November 11, 2008 by Reya

[Nestof3]

I just wanted to add that my son does find it difficult when doing moi tai with someone with long hair because it is very easy to accidentally pull it, so he finds himself not being able to be as aggressive as he would like.

 

What I mentioned was my son's personal opinion about having shaggy hair. I know from experience that there is an in-between length (the shaggy kind we were referring to before "long" hair came into this conversation) that does get in the way of vision -- a length that cannot be held back by a ponytail. This would interfere with the things he likes to do.

 

All of the jobs my son would be interested in having require short hair -- military and law enforcement. He is now an adult, so perhaps I should not have even entered into this conversation. He's probably at a different place in life than most of the tweens and teens this conversation was referring to.

 

And I really don't think my boys look like concentration camp victims, but you are more than entitled to have that opinion of them. I think I do a pretty fabulous job at cutting their hair. But, then, that is merely my opinion.

[Wendi]

I kinda wish my ds would grow his hair longer because I think the shaggy hair look is kinda cute, but he likes it better short. Whatever, as long as it is clean I'm fine with it.

 

My 12yo ds keeps his hair pretty short all around, a little longer on top so he can spike it with gel if he wants. One of my nephews has shaggier, surfer-style hair. My ds tried growing his out, but he doesn't like how it feels. So he decided short hair is for him.

 

I thought it was ironic that I was encouraging him to grow his hair a little longer. Isn't it usually the other way around?

 

Wendi

[elegantlion]

 

I thought it was ironic that I was encouraging him to grow his hair a little longer. Isn't it usually the other way around?

 

Wendi

 

And I was telling my ds the other day to turn up his music so I could enjoy the song too. :lol::lol:

[Frankie]

Lets be fair, how many of them are dressed that way because their lawyer or father said "Son get a haircut before you go in there and wear long sleves to cover those tats."

 

Adults, yes. Juvies? No. Most juvenile offenders do not have attorneys. Only kids charged with very serious crimes, or kids whose parents really care, get attorneys.

 

You would be surprised at the amount of children that did not do anything special for court. Most came in their school clothes because court was held during school hours. Some did dress up. Most did not. Most wore conservative clothing, had conservative haircuts. Most looked like the type children you would not expect in juvie court. Society's preconceived notions are wrong.

 

Further, as most kids still have fairly short hair and few tattoos one would expect the majority of offenders still to be conservatively dressed. As a percentage, however, I would still argue that the numbers still indicate that those with excessive tattoos and unconventional hair or piercings represent a disproportionate amount of offenders.

 

You can argue it all you want, but what are your sources? Where do you get your information? It is not my experience at all. I lived it. I sat in the courtroom, eight hours a day. We did juvie court one day a week, every week. We did juvenile offenders in the mornings, which was usually 60-100 kids, and abuse and neglect cases in the afternoons.

 

Most of the kids who came before the bench were quote unquote normal kids. I would define them conservative. I've never seen tattoos on any kids in court, probably because it is illegal. Wait, I take that back. I did see homemade tattoos on their hands, but very infrequently. Frankly, that was most common with one particular race.

 

Were there kids that were dressed beyond the norm? Sure. But the majority were your everyday kid, the ones that looked like your neighbors or perhaps like your own. That's because that's who they were. They were usually good kids that got caught doing something stupid.

 

My experience is that there were very few that were odd, to use your term. That was the minority.

 

Switching to adult court, we had all types. A good lawyer would tell the defendants to clean themselves up for a jury trial. Their clientele rarely listened when it was just an appearance in front of the judge.

 

I've sat on every type of criminal case there is. Let me tell you, murderers and "bad guys" don't all look like Manson.

 

The most emotional case I ever sat in on was a child abuse case. A lovely couple, parents to seven children, ran an in-home day care. They were a clean-cut family. They attended the local Catholic church. The dad was a soccer coach. They appeared to be good citizens. Yet that dad one day got mad at a little boy who was in their daycare. The two-year-old spilled soup on his outfit. That clean-cut man took that innocent child into the bathroom, took his clothes off him and used the blow dryer on them. He got so mad at the child, he took that blow dryer to that boy's belly and burned him. The child had the blow dryer marks burned into him.

 

You just cannot judge people by their appearances. You really can't.

[LilyK]

I was only saying things my son has said to me. And I am not dying on any hill over this -- he has chosen his own hairstyle based on what he likes. And, he is quite good looking, if I do say so myself (you can seehim on my blog). Why is it that his opinion is not worth anything (since we are talking about teen sons' hair), but all of the ladies' opinions are here?

 

 

My son wouldn't want to be mistaken for a girl either, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that, or that he has any hidden issues because of it. Your son is absolutely entitled to his opinion, just as those who think my son's cut is concentration campish are entitled to theirs. I, personally, think he looks clean, healthy, and fantastic! If I knew how to post a picture, I would.

[LilyK]

But I do have a motto: If you choose to look like a freak, you may not get offended when people treat you like a freak.

 

Boy, you are spot on here. I remember in nursing school, it was made clear that any unusual piercings had to be taken out and excessive tattoos covered up because such appearances frighten patients. There was one girl who had such a problem with this and tried to break dress code all the time. I'll never forget the time a woman with dementia noticed something glittering on her tongue and tried to grab it. She didn't make it through the program. She left, probably feeling very mistreated and misunderstood. She could have used your motto growing up to help her adjust to the realities of the world.

[Joanne]

Quote:

But I do have a motto: If you choose to look like a freak, you may not get offended when people treat you like a freak.

 

At what point does a person become a "freak"? Who decides?

 

At what point do boys become sheeple, drones or clones with short, natural colored hair, polo shirts, khakis?

[tibbyl]

At what point does a person become a "freak"? Who decides?

 

At what point do boys become sheeple, drones or clones with short, natural colored hair, polo shirts, khakis?

 

I, too, was perplexed by exactly what constitutes freakiness and what treating someone like a freak entails.

 

Interesting statistics on tattoos from Harrisinteractive:

 

About 49% of U.S. adults between ages 18 and 29 have one or more tattoos. In the 30-39 age range, 28%. In the 40-49 age range, 14%.

 

Of all U.S. adults who currently have at least one tattoo, 17% of them regret the decision to have tattoo.

[Pamela H in Texas]

At what point do boys become sheeple, drones or clones with short, natural colored hair, polo shirts, khakis?

 

Puhlease. As if there is no choice of dress or appearance just because one looks presentable. There is PLENTY of room for self-expression within "respectable" by most people's standards. It is far from stifling @@

[Nestof3]

At what point does a person become a "freak"? Who decides?

 

At what point do boys become sheeple, drones or clones with short, natural colored hair, polo shirts, khakis?

 

Well, years ago my boys and I (they were much younger) were at Target shopping. A male employee there wore his hair in these 6-inch spikes down the center of his hair. My son pointed and said in a shocked way, "Mom -- it looks like that man has spikes growing out of his head." I quieted him because I didn't want him to offend the young man (who clearly heard him), but then I thought to myself, "Why should I quiet him? It's not like the guy's a burn victim with some scar he has to bear. He intentionally spikes his hair like that."

 

From that moment, I allowed my children to voice their opinions about things like that. I do teach them about differences in people, about not making people feel uncomfortable for their differences/handicaps, but if the physical appearances are out of choice, I've stopped trying to explain them away.

 

If my son points to the woman in line in front of us with the huge slash in her jeans right at her butt line and says, "Mom -- her butt is showing," I just say, "Yes, she likes it that way." If people do things to get attention, they should be prepared for the attention. That's all.

 

Ya know, I've never met a drone, personally. All three of my sons are very different from each other, express themselves differently, and have their own thoughts and talents. People here are asserting that the outer appearance does not dictate the inner, but implying that short-haired, khaki-wearing guys are drones is contradicting that.

 

No, I don't dress my 18 year old. He has his own style. He is the one who decided he doesn't like jeans. I personally love them, and I love it when my husband wears his light blue jeans.

 

He is the one who decided to not wear shorts for an entire summer (he works outside) because he was trying to decide what modesty meant for him. His Dad wore shorts the entire time.

 

He likes pants with lots of pockets -- I don't like them at all. I don't forbid him wearing them just because I don't personally like them.

 

He gets his hair cut and pays for it on his own.

 

Right now he is thinking about his future -- about finding a wife, about being someone on the inside and out that would make a father proud to hand over his daughter to him, about completing college and landing a job in order to provide for a family.

 

The whole shaggy hair thing (the current look) is a fad -- drones are people who follow fads. A certain style creeps up and to be cool you have to have this hair style. Almost everywhere I look, young men have their hair cut in this certain style. The same thing happened with bell bottoms, with fluorescent clothing, with saggy pants, etc. I guarantee you most young men would not have shaggy hair (this current 70's style) if it weren't for it being a fad. That's my definition of a sheep -- someone who just follows along hoping to fit in.

Edited November 11, 2008 by nestof3

[Renee in NC]

I *know* my 15yo has issues!:lol:

 

Actually, he attends a pretty rigorous, academic school. College attendance is in the 90% range. Most students graduate having taken one or more AP classes.

 

Many of the boys have long hair and piercings. Including my 15yo. I couldn't ask for a better kid. And I think he looks goofy with short hair.;) He plays varsity basketball (and uses either a sweatband or a ponytail to keep it out of his face.)

 

He has been pretty mature about his piercings. No huge guages and he only has them in his ears. At this point, he realizes that at some point he will have to conform, but for now he gets to have some fun!

[swellmomma]

My personal preference is that they keep it short. That said it was not a hill I was willng to die on so if they wanted it longer I would allow it. Luckily they both prefer the buzzed look. Ds10 has to keep his short and neat because of cadets, ds5 wants to be just like ds10 so I give them each a buzz biweekly

[Kris]

Well, years ago my boys and I (they were much younger) were at Target shopping. A male employee there wore his hair in these 6-inch spikes down the center of his hair. My son pointed and said in a shocked way, "Mom -- it looks like that man has spikes growing out of his head." I quieted him because I didn't want him to offend the young man (who clearly heard him), but then I thought to myself, "Why should I quiet him? It's not like the guy's a burn victim with some scar he has to bear. He intentionally spikes his hair like that."

 

From that moment, I allowed my children to voice their opinions about things like that. I do teach them about differences in people, about not making people feel uncomfortable for their differences/handicaps, but if the physical appearances are out of choice, I've stopped trying to explain them away.

 

If my son points to the woman in line in front of us with the huge slash in her jeans right at her butt line and says, "Mom -- her butt is showing," I just say, "Yes, she likes it that way." If people do things to get attention, they should be prepared for the attention. That's all.

 

This is the part I agree with. If someone works that hard to be "different" it seems to me they enjoy the attention they'll get -- they're counting on it -- and it's silly to think no one will notice those six-inch spikes or that butt showing!

 

What I disagree with -- and this is not what *you* said, I don't think -- is that these "visuals" automatically indicate that the person is dangerous or unacceptable in some way, i.e., the "I'd never let *my* kid associate with someone like that."

[elegantlion]

I was a social experiment in high school. I grew up in the early 80's. You could be a punker, a prep, or a freak(just a term used for people who did a lot of drugs and smelled like smoke). :D

 

I made a choice in high school to dress more punky. Before I had been average in my dress, fairly basic. I remember making the choice to do it, part of the reason to find out who my real friends were. It worked, I gained some new friends (mostly foreign exchange students) and lost some.

 

Ironically I hadn't changed who I was, just my appearance. I figured those people who judged me because of how I LOOKED even though I hadn't changed my personality were the ones with more issues than me.

 

I can only make assumptions about people based upon their appearance and we know how assuming can get us into trouble. :D I tend to wait to get to know someone before I can presume to guess their character.

[sassenach]

People in the body modification community are generally...troubled, to put it mildly. There's a BIG difference between tattoos and piercings of a modest sort and dramatic body modification. Most in the community are after the pain/endorphin high as much as anything and have some serious masochistic fixations. The association between that and cutting/self-mutilation isn't accidental. Normal human beings avoid self-harm--for obvious reasons. Those who seek it out to that kind of extent are "not normal" for one reason or another.

 

I might also note that implants and most of the more "outrageous" piercings are temporary because the body rejects them after a time. The effects of skin removal and burning are, of course, more permanent, never mind some of the less superficial mutilations.

 

People who engage in these behaviors are rarely functional enough to hold down a decent job outside of the body modification community. So their appearance is a moot point. If you have a kid wanting to do a corset-lacing piercing, you missed the boat on some VERY serious problems years ago. (And for the most part, the parents are usually a good part of the reason someone gets that messed up in the first place...)

 

Now, if you go to body mod forums, you'll hear many assertions of how "normal" they are, but it doesn't take long to realize that there are some extremely nasty things beneath the surface, and it doesn't take much longer to find out what they are, too, in explicit detail, unfortunately. Many of them are in denial; others normalize their experiences. Either way, it's WAY beyond what you'd deal with in any sort of healthy kid.

 

All that said, I know any number of people who feel like/have felt like idiots for their tattoos and have had them removed--or wished they had the money to get them removed.

 

My rules are: NO tattoos. They're a permanent expression of a temporary emotion. NO piercings that are likely to cause complications. (That means no tongue or eyebrow or other "fleshy" part that's infection-prone. Nose and ear are okay, but you can't have so many that they threaten the integrity of the cartilage. Piercings, if they don't cause permanent harm, grow closed.) Free rein on hair, as long as you're paying for it.

 

But you choose how to present yourself to the world, and the world WILL JUDGE YOU accordingly--and has every right to do so! If you make a certain statement, you can't get huffy if people take you at your word, so to speak.

 

On one hand, you have the discreetness of Christian dress. On the other, you have Jesus eating and drinking with the "bad kids," so to speak, in order to teach them. I think an argument can be made for both sides--and a third argument that, in today's society, that it really doesn't matter.

 

To throw in the mix: It would be sad if a person didn't become a Christian because he couldn't get past the fact that it seemed to him that all "Christians" looked down on his hairdo and none looked like him.

 

I agree with you on the body mod stuff. There is a line. What I think is ridiculous is the assertion (not your assertion Reya!) that a kid with long hair represents something "un-christian". Generally, I think the people who want their kids to be "above reproach" aren't worried about how the non Christian world will perceive their kids (and their kid's testimony). They seem to be more worried about how the Christian world will perceive them.

 

As for the tattoo comment that I highlighted in Reya's post, I think the one caveat is that many people have tattoos as a permanent expression of a permanent emotion/reality, our salvation through Christ. That would be the case for my dh and I. I still believe in all things in their time, so my kids will have to wait till they're 18 if they want a tat. They can do whatever they want with their hair between now and then : )

[Tracey in TX]

Puhlease. As if there is no choice of dress or appearance just because one looks presentable. There is PLENTY of room for self-expression within "respectable" by most people's standards. It is far from stifling @@

That depends on the child. What is perfectly acceptable for one kid is suffocatingly stifling for another.

[Peek a Boo]

At what point does a person become a "freak"? Who decides?

 

At what point do boys become sheeple, drones or clones with short, natural colored hair, polo shirts, khakis?

 

 

are YOU ready to define 'non-freak'?

are you ready to decide what another can and cannot think about another person?

if everyone decides to wear their hair like your ds', will HE and THEY become sheeple/drones/clones just because they choose a popular or then-conventional style for hair and dress?

 

since we can't CONTROL what other people think or believe, we are left with REALIZING that some people do indeed consider 'unconventional' hairstyles freakish. And that some people consider conventional dress/hairstyles clonish, dronish, and sheeple-ish.

 

i think it would behoove ALL of us to not make assumptions -be it sheeple or freaks- about people based on how they choose to accessorize their bodies.

 

But at the same time we do our children a disservice if we do not warn them that people DO make assumptions, and to be ready for any backlash --personal or professional-- that they receive.

 

---------

for our household?

I am w/ Ria and Reya on this one -- I don't care what they do w/ their hair/clothes as long as it is a temporary thing: no tattoos/ piercings [for the boys] and as long as they can still move and function in such a way that they can help someone at the drop of a hat. hair in your face and clothes falling off your body aren't acceptable here.

that being said, we do encourage a typical conventional dress/hairstyle. They see the rationale in that and choose to continue it.

[swellmomma]

I do not think the shaved/buzzed cut= violence. I think my boys and their buzzed hair is adorable. As for the idea that someone with tattoos etc could be near someone's child I think that is ridiculous too. I have made a 20 year career working in childcare. I am a very good care provider, I also happen to have 4 tattoos. My tat's do not affect the job I do working with children. Nor have they made any negative impact when I worked in a pediatricians office. My kids may or may not get tats or peircings when they are grown, they know I am fine with them, as long as they are tasteful and done after they are 18. Clothing is another area, modesty is key for the kids, but so is appropriateness. Goth clothes are modest but inappropriate imo. My boys wear jeans or slacks aiwth button down tops mostly, they also have t-shirts they like. They chose this style I didn't. DD9 is currently entering a prairie style dress, long skirts and dresses etc phase. She doesn't like how most pants fit, again her choice not mine. BUT I also have rules in this house abot length of skirts/dresses, where the boys pants need to sit(no undies hanging out), cleanliness, clothes in good repair(no stains or rips etc). The kids can express their own styles within the bounds of our household rules.

[LilyK]

At what point does a person become a "freak"? Who decides?

 

 

 

Well, I don't think there is a specific "point" or a specific person who decides, but IMO, if your hair, tattoos, or piercings scare young children, you might be a freak. You could be a perfectly nice peson, but a freak within society.

[LauraGB]

I haven't read all the answers yet, but I will. I just wanted to say this is becoming an issue in my house, too. Ds wants to grow his hair out (like dad did back in the day). My thought is that if it looks good on him, it would be acceptable. If he looks sloppy, dirty, greasy, or if it is generally unattractive to his face, its a definite no-go. If his facial features can sport it, and he can keep it looking appropriate, then I say its fashionable and go for it. In my ds's case, well dh didn't sport it well, and I'm rather concerned that ds will not be able to either.

[TammyinTN]

Just wondering what others have to say on the hair issue.

My 13 year old likes the longer shaggy look. As long as it's not over his eyes and it's clean I don't mind to much. My oldest son is ROTC and trims his hair weekly to keep it above the eyebrows and over the ears and he gets it cut every couple of months to clean all the uneven trimmings he does. My dh is from the neat and trimmed camp, not military cut but not shaggy.

 

Do you have standards on your teenage boy and his hair. do you ask that it be kept over the ears, above the collar? Is it a non-issue, however he wants to wear it. Do you allow the long shaggy over the eyes? Don't mind as long as it's clean and combed?

 

Ds is almost 12 and he keeps his hair short. We see the military barber every 4 weeks like clockwork. :D