Internet addiction

[bethben]

I know this has been spoken of before. I have a ds with mild depression. We’ve been giving him 1 1/2 hours of computer time per day. Once again (the fifth time), he found a device and has been doing programming stuff all night. As far as I can tell, he hasn’t slept for 2-3 days (browsing history). If we take the computer away, instant moderate to severe depression. The therapist seems to think if he’s sneaking the computer (he found his brother’s old computer that was not password locked), he needs more time in the computer. I think the only way his desire would be filled is 24 hour access. What do we do?!?! New therapist? This has been an ongoing problem for a year.

 

 

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[Joyofsixreboot]

Child's age?

 

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[bethben]

He’s 13. His therapist was suggesting he be allowed to use Minecraft as his “medication†since it was helping to regulate his mood. The therapist kept convincing us to up the time he was allowed the computer. We would let our kids play on weekends and due to the therapist, this child is on the computer programming Minecraft for 1 1/2 hours per day. It would be ok if he didn’t sneak it and think about it constantly. The computer is all he thinks about. He refuses to do any physical activity because he’s introverted and they all involve being around people. We need to give him something else that gives him joy but there is nothing that he even wants to try. It’s harder to make a teen boy do something than a 7 year old.

 

 

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[OneStepAtATime]

ETA you answered some of my questions.  Let me review...

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by OneStepAtATime

[bethben]

He has no friends. He has no desire to be around others. He is going to two different co-ops right now because he needs to be around other people more. We set up forced “play dates†(I shouldn’t have to do this at 13) and his only friend at one co-op he only interacts with through email. Their only shared interest is computers. We tried tai kwan do and the having to express himself with some verbal force made him want to hide. He will participate in what we ask of him, but there is no joy there.

 

 

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[bethben]

We are also going to a psychologist to get a possible autism diagnosis but that’s still two months out. It’s near impossible to get those appointments in less than six months.

 

 

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[Bluegoat]

I think the therapist might be seriously on the wrong track.  I'd try and find someone different who is experienced in dealing with internet or gaming addictions.  Or even gambling addictions which are in some ways similar.

 

What you are describing sounds like it's at least partly withdrawal symptoms.

[ondreeuh]

Hugs to you.

 

I know several homeschooled teen boys who are sort of like this - extremely introverted and only having one or two interests. I have seen parents just accept that that's who their kid is and not push it (which can lead to kids not getting help they need), and I have seen parents enroll their kids in things "for their own good" with mixed success (it doesn't make them less introverted, and can make them feel worse if they really can't relate to other kids). There is no easy answer.

 

I will say that I take comfort in the idea that you don't have to be well-socialized as a teen to be a competent adult. I knew lots of odd kids who found their own way as adults. Relating to other kids is hard business, because they are so fickle.

 

I do think you need another therapist, someone who is focused on helping your son become more successful and not just making him feel better in the short term. Self-medicating with his preferred activity is understandable, but it doesn't address the underlying issue. Neither does taking the computer away - you would need that to be part of a holistic approach to helping him get better.

 

Are there any concerns about ASD? If so, maybe there is a social skills group that would help him find kids he can relate to. Are you open to trying antidepressants? Is he anxious?

[hornblower]

1.5 h/day seems quite low to me. 

And fwiw, I tend to be on the 'I am concerned what digital tech is doing to our brains' end of the spectrum so I really get the issue and the worry. 

And it's not the same as reading at all but I can't help but think of me at 13 and the fact that I pretty much did nothing other than sleep, read, go to school, stay up too late reading, repeat....   

I think I'd be inclined to up his amount on the computer & try to negotiate with him about also committing to other in person activities in exchange. Board game club? Magik the gathering? Warhammer? 

 

Is there a computer component recycling place in your community? We have a couple in our city and they're often good places for geeky kids to hang out. They strip donated computer equipment, rebuild computers, sell parts for very cheap. Ours are part of a non-profit group which aims to give computers to low income marginalized people. 

I would guess he hasn't found his tribe yet - something which for some kids takes a really long time.....

[bethben]

I negotiated an extra 1/2 hour in exchange for the second co-op. He was good with the exchange. But still—he’s been up for two days straight on his sneaked computer. He hides it really well—on the other hand, he was starting to slur his words.

 

 

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[Bluegoat]

I negotiated an extra 1/2 hour in exchange for the second co-op. He was good with the exchange. But still—he’s been up for two days straight on his sneaked computer. He hides it really well—on the other hand, he was starting to slur his words.

 

 

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Well, look - what if it was alcohol, or pot, or internet poker?

[Junie]

1.5 h/day seems quite low to me. 

 

And fwiw, I tend to be on the 'I am concerned what digital tech is doing to our brains' end of the spectrum so I really get the issue and the worry. 

 

And it's not the same as reading at all but I can't help but think of me at 13 and the fact that I pretty much did nothing other than sleep, read, go to school, stay up too late reading, repeat....   

 

I think I'd be inclined to up his amount on the computer & try to negotiate with him about also committing to other in person activities in exchange. Board game club? Magik the gathering? Warhammer? 

 

Is there a computer component recycling place in your community? We have a couple in our city and they're often good places for geeky kids to hang out. They strip donated computer equipment, rebuild computers, sell parts for very cheap. Ours are part of a non-profit group which aims to give computers to low income marginalized people. 

 

I would guess he hasn't found his tribe yet - something which for some kids takes a really long time.....

 

:iagree:

 

My ds17 spends several hours every day playing computer games.  For someone who is an introvert who loves gaming, I think 1 1/2 hours is way too low.  I don't know your therapist, but I agree with giving extra time on the computer during the day.  

 

I would even suggest that someone in your household play computer games with him.  Sharing what he loves with you might help you to understand why he loves it so much and would also give him social interaction.

 

Dh and ds17 play a computer game together that they both enjoy, sometimes for 2 or 3 hours at a time, several nights each week.  I think that it's a wonderful thing for my introvert son. 

[Spryte]

I am thinking along the same lines as hornblower.

 

1.5 hours (allowed) doesn’t seem horrible to me, and I am also on the “what’s this doing to our brains!?†end of things. That said, though, we don’t regulate screen time very strictly here, but sort of fly by the seat of our pants, adjusting as needed. So if I see signs that DS has had too much screen time on any given day, I have no problem saying, “screen free day! Go do a project!†Or whatever. So our parenting styles might be different - it’s kind of like not giving your kid a curfew and working out the time they will be home each time they go out, depending on what they are doing. That’s not for everyone, I get it.

 

I do have one who would find old devices and sneak them in the night, losing sleep. That prompted us to search out all old devices and make them inaccessible. Also, he lost screen time for a while.

 

In your case, maybe you can add up the time he spent on those devices and dock him those hours?

 

Though it sounds like he’s using Minecraft as a coping tool, and taking that away completely feels off.

 

Personal aside: in my 20s I was in a lot of pain from endometriosis. Over a period of a very few years I had 4 surgeries, was out into chemical menopause, and finally had a hysterectomy. It was bad, and I was on pain meds a lot. DH and I were newlyweds, and it was hard. When the pain was bad, I would obsessively play Snood. Just a stupid game, but I had to focus on something. It was my crutch. I needed a crutch. I’m wondering if your DS is playing Minecraft in the same vein - this is his crutch.

 

In which case, I’d want to give some access to it, while offering other options and looking for solutions to what he’s feeling,

 

We generally divide screen time into two groups: consumption (that would be watching videos, most social media, anything one is watching or reading but not creating), and creative. I’m much more inclined to let DS have lots of creative time. He moved from Minecraft to video editing to photoshop. Do you feel like there is any redeeming quality to his Minecraft time? Is he creating? You could try giving him assignments to create, if that would feel better? Maybe introduce him to photoshop or something like that?

 

My DS is 13, and his Minecraft Love has faded, finally. We steered him toward other things (in his case, he’s a maker, so cosplay, steampunk, and the aforementioned computer stuff). We found a maker club at a private school, locally, and that opened his world, too. Lots of introverted kind of nerdy-cool kids there working in their own projects. Very inspiring. It took some work though to get him steered away.

 

Not sure any of that rambling will help.

 

ETA: so many typos! Please ignore my fumbling phone typing errors

Edited January 16, 2018 by Spryte

[Spryte]

Oh, I also think the finding an old device and sneaking time during the night needs to be addressed. Separately, maybe. When my DS did that, we cut out screen time for a bit. Even during the day. He was very upset, and you may not want to go that way, because your DS might be using screen time as a coping skill. Regardless, I’d be having a discussion about trust and honesty.

[bethben]

Well, look - what if it was alcohol, or pot, or internet poker?

I know!!! That is the tension I have. I’m seeing total addiction. I feel like my mommy gut was taken away by the therapist. The only reason we went to the therapist was because I had a child who slept all the time and was more than mildly depressed. What happened with the therapy sessions for the most part was my son negotiating with me through the therapist for more computer time. I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place.

 

 

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[Spryte]

I know!!! That is the tension I have. I’m seeing total addiction. I feel like my mommy gut was taken away by the therapist. The only reason we went to the therapist was because I had a child who slept all the time and was more than mildly depressed. What happened with the therapy sessions for the most part was my son negotiating with me through the therapist for more computer time. I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place.

 

 

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Hey, if you feel this way, I’d suggest that’s not a good therapist fit. That sounds miserable.

[bethben]

Ds lies. He’s very good at it although I’ve started to pick up his body language a bit. I don’t trust what he says any more. It’s not just this but everything he doesn’t want to do and still needs to (proper hygiene right now). I’ve desperately been trying to find anything he may be interested in. Hence the two co-op thing. The second has a robotics club and course. I’m totally lost here. Most of the time, I’ve been able to follow my gut /God’s voice to figure out what my kids needed. I’ve got nothing with this child.

 

 

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[Bluegoat]

I know!!! That is the tension I have. I’m seeing total addiction. I feel like my mommy gut was taken away by the therapist. The only reason we went to the therapist was because I had a child who slept all the time and was more than mildly depressed. What happened with the therapy sessions for the most part was my son negotiating with me through the therapist for more computer time. I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place.

 

 

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It sounds like he or she hasn't really much sense of the situation and is just assuming that all kids react the same way.

 

Boys on the spectrum, from what I've read, are probably the most at risk for serious addiction issues, and the recommendations I've seen are total removal, even in-patient treatment.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

1.  Yes getting a teen to do something they don't want to do can be exceedingly hard.  Virtually impossible if you don't have a way to influence them.  My BIL went through similar issues with his oldest teen.  It was a hard several years.

2.  Is your son truly an introvert or does he have social anxiety?  Many introverts can engage in outside activities with others just fine and may even look forward to it.  It is just draining to do so for an extended period of time.  To recharge batteries they need some alone time.  Kids with social anxiety disorder go beyond just getting a bit drained.  It is actually really HARD for them to be around people and they may need targeted professional help to be more functional around people.  The more isolated they are the worse it can get.  On the flip side, sometimes people with SAD do better as adults with making friends/finding a tribe than when they are trying to navigate childhood, especially the pre-teen and teen years.

3.  Yes if he has autism that also could be a big part of the problem and if so you may need a very different long term approach.  I sympathize with the difficulty to get appointments when dealing with our children and their needs.  BTDT.  It stinks.  

4.  The therapist may have no experience with tech/screen addiction.  Probably not with autism and maybe not even with SAD either.  While being on the computer may help in the short run it is making it worse long term because he is not self-regulating.  He is harming his health.  This can turn into a true addiction, just as damaging in its own way as alcohol or drugs.  I would seek out another therapist but honestly if he is dealing with autism/social anxiety disorder you may need someone who specializes in those things.

5.  You need a kill switch on the internet.  It shuts off at say 10pm, every night, no matter what.  Wake up time is at the same time every day.  Bed time is at the same time every night.  Regular routine before bedtime.  NO screen time within at least an hour of bedtime.  He will fight you.  He will NOT be happy.  Be strong.  Try to get this in place anyway.  His mental and physical health are at stake.  This will not get better without your outside support/intervention.  He cannot self regulate.  That does not mean automatically he should not have screen time.  It means he is going to need outside structure and regulation to be able to keep to a healthier lifestyle.

6.  You also need control of all the devices.  All devices get returned to you every night.  You seek them out, without rancor or guilt, and put them in your room to charge.  

7.  1 1/2 hours for something he cares about and is engaged in doing isn't a lot of time so yes, increasing his time may help but there can be backlash to that.  It can increase the need instead of decreasing it.  You can try, though.  I would.  Set up specific times of the day he can take more time to be on the internet BUT he must also go to bed on time, he must shut down the computer at least an hour or two before bedtime (detox and he won't want to) and he must eat with the family and engage in other activities, even if he is doing those activities alone.  Also, I would require certain productive elements to his screen time.  Does he take any on-line courses?  Maybe self-paced if interacting with others is too hard right now?  Are there educational games he could play?  And I agree with upthread, have someone, either you or your DH, play WITH him for some of those games.  

8.  Since being with other people is an issue, a private trainer might work for getting him more physically active without overloading him in the social department.  One on one with clear goals and at least twice weekly (preferably three times a week) meetings may at least keep him more physically active and possibly help him engage outside the home.  Shop around.  Sometimes you can find them for not very much cost wise.  I would also try to find activities he could join that don't require a ton of interaction with others right now but might tap into his areas of interest and get him engaged outside the home.  If the robotics class (which usually requires teamwork) is not working well then maybe local computer programming classes where there are other students around but he can focus on the computer while also developing and honing computer skills.

9.  Set your alarm.  Wake up at 1am and check on him.  If he has found yet another device take it away, without rancor, but make it clear that you understand he feels he MUST be on the computer but it isn't healthy not to get sleep.   Be consistent and firm about bedtime/sleep time/regular diet and exercise.  Hard as it will be to do.  

10.  Does he like listening to books?  Maybe he could listen to audio books at night to wind down for sleep.  White noise might help, too.  And possibly melatonin but well before bedtime.  It may take time to get him regulated for sleeping but I would make it a hill to die on.  Even if he stays on screens 4-5 hours a day during the day, at least for now get his sleep cycle back on track.   Maybe that means he goes to bed at 9 or 10 or 11 or even midnight but whatever his bedtime, keep it consistent, keep his bedtime routine predictable and make it a hill to die on.  Do it every night until his rhythms hopefully readjust.  Work out the rest as you get answers for what else may be going on.

[SamanthaCarter]

Sounds a bit like my ds. Does he have ADHD. I think you were on the right track with martial arts. I have an introverted younger brother who did extremely well with Kung fu, which is typically quiet and non aggressive as a discipline.

 

Also, I agree the therapist doesn’t sound like a good fit.

 

 

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[Kim in Appalachia]

13 is a difficult age.  I'm dealing with a 13 year old with anxiety and depression. While he loves computers, he is not showing signs of addiction to them.  I would say your child is.

 

If your child is forgoing sleep in order to have screen time, then there is a problem. That he won't interact with at least one friend is also a problem.  I don't know if cold turkey (of no screen time) is the answer.

 

I do think your therapist is a bad fit and you need a new one.  I'm also going to recommend a Dr, and not just a therapist.  You may need to consider medication.  You also should consider an evaluation to see if there are any other issues going on.

 

and  :grouphug: . There are no easy answers.  There are also no "right" answers. You have to find the best way to deal with this for your son.  That may involve compromise, no screen time, carefully monitored screen time, medication, therapy, or any combination.  

[freesia]

It sounds like social anxiety to me.

 

Also he sounds like my ds when he gets too much internet time. His threshold is one hour a day or he starts acting like an addict. Withdrawal, when we cut back, is three rough days of wailing and depression and then he resets. I disagree with giving him more time.

 

Read the book Reset Your Child's Brain. I think you will see your ds in the descriptions.

 

And get him help for the social anxiety. Introversion is not the same as being uncomfortable around people.

He needs more tools than the computer for destressing. In fact, the computer is overstimulating. He needs some actual relaxation tools.

[Carol in Cal.]

I'd start from the executive point--what all does he need to be healthy?

 

I'm thinking off the top of my head--sleep, exercise, nutrition, mental engagement, academic progress, participation in everyday life, family/community/relationships, faith in God.

 

Then I'd say, OK, how do we get all of those into a life that is mostly focussed on this computer issue?  And I'd figure it all out from there.  It does seem like he has an addiction, but a lot of kids this age are obsessed with *something* and if this is creative for him (and it sounds like it might be?) then it's not all bad.  It just needs to be a bit more balanced.  If taking it away triggers his depression, it's important to focus on the aspects of the other stuff that give coping skills for depression--sunshine as part of exercise, for instance, or going to a comedy night as part of the 'relationships'.  Because if this feels to him like the only thing that can possibly make him feel good at all, it would be smart in the long run to give him some other tools as well.

[kroe1]

I have no idea about the biopsychosocial aspect of it all. But, I agree with the therapist that 1 1/2 hours a day to play Minecraft is not enough time. One would have a hard time just collecting the building materials needed for a project in that length of time.

 

If he was building models or playing with Legos, how much time would you give him?

[forty-two]

In my early 20s, I did trigger a major, years-long depression when I (voluntarily) gave up for Lent what turned out to be my chief means of self-medicating (escapist fiction reading).  I had this pie-in-the-sky idea that I'd magically replace it with the good things that I'd always meant to do but never somehow got around to because I was too busy with my addictive reading (things like Bible reading and exercise and not procrastinating on my schoolwork).  What actually happened was that I gave up my main means of dealing with life (not that it was a great way of dealing, but it turns out it *was* a way of dealing), with no coping skills but sheer blind optimism to replace it with.  Naturally, I gravitated to a worse way of dealing (mindless TV watching, and not alcohol, thank God - since that was the semester I turned 21, I could have developed a much worse addiction than the escapist fiction reading one I was attempted to give up).  The mindless TV watching wasn't sufficient to occupy me, and I fell hard. 

 

Giving up my main means of dealing with life without anything to replace it was, in retrospect, a very bad plan.  However, it wasn't like my life was going all that well beforehand - I was only *just* managing to get the bare minimum responsibilities done - the reading was increasingly taking over my life as it was.  It needed to be dealt with - it's just that cold-turkey with nothing concrete to replace it with was not a very good way of dealing with it.  What I hadn't realized at the time was that my addictive reading habit was a form of self-medication (giving my mind something to focus on) as well as the main obstacle in my getting the tasks of life done.  When I gave it up for Lent, I thought I was giving up my main obstacle to doing what I needed to do, but it turns out I was also giving up my main source of mental stimulation.  Yes, in theory I could have replaced it with other, higher-quality sources of mental stimulation - which was my goal in giving it up in the first place - but in practice all my habits were oriented around seeking out the *easiest* form of mental stimulation that did the job.  And when I removed the reading, I - true to my habits - defaulted to an even *easier* (and lower-quality) form of mental stimulation (TV), only it wasn't sufficient to the task.

 

Anyway, all that to say that I *don't* think allowing more and more Minecraft is the answer - having unlimited reading access didn't do me any favors but just allowed reading to crowd out even more of life.  I do think it's extremely hard to form new, good habits without first creating a space free of the old, bad habits.  But at the same time, it takes a lot more than the mere *absence* of a bad habit to develop good habits.  You have to *use* that space - fill it with *good* things, build up *good* habits.  Otherwise it's just an empty hole.  I'm not surprised he falls and falls fast when he's faced with a giant gaping hole, one that he doesn't have the wherewithal to fill in any way but with Minecraft, when he's deprived on Minecraft.

 

I agree with Carol that it's important to figure out what a good life ought to look like, what things it ought to include, and how Minecraft could fit into that life.  Then use those Minecraft-free spaces you carve out to build up the elements of a good, healthy life.  Once you can get that virtuous cycle going, then it will start to take on a momentum of its own.  But it's hard to begin the cycle :grouphug:.

 

The healthier I get, the less I feel the urge to escape in reading, and the more I can resist the siren call of escapist fiction when giving in would interfere with life.  (In fact, feeling the constant tug to read, read, read instead of anything else is an early sign that my mental health is dropping.)  When I drop back into a depressive hole (as I unfortunately do semi-regularly, I worry I've permanently damaged my mental health), I climb back out by adding the one or two things that have the biggest bang for the buck, the things that will give me enough energy and health to add other things in.  For better or worse, I don't go cold turkey, but I carve out a few spaces, fill them with the very best things, and then use that to bootstrap my way into carving out a few more spaces and adding a few more good things, and so and and so forth, until the virtuous cycle has enough momentum to pull me along into less reading and more other things without my having to climb and claw at it.  (Honestly, I rarely get to that point before falling again, but I'm trying.  I have a very bad habit of celebrating the start of the virtuous cycle having enough momentum to keep going on its own by quitting doing everything that feeds the virtuous cycle.)  For me that's Bible reading, exercise, and sleep - that's where I start.

 

Hugs and prayers.  I was and am a very frustrating person when I'm in the middle of falling down the depressive hole and want nothing more than to ignore it by constant addictive reading.  I don't want to get better, not if it means having to do something harder and less immediately enjoyable than reading 24/7.  I fell and fell hard because of that - lost a lot of my 20s to that - but God and my family didn't give up on me, and here in my 30s I'm climbing out of it.

[bethben]

The only reason why he is still allowed Minecraft is that he doesn't have a good replacement - something that he loves just as much.  We know it needs to be replaced by something that brings him joy but we have tried for two years to find ANY interest and are turning up nothing.  I remember reading teen romances around the 14 year old mark.  I would get a huge stack from the library and read them when ever I could.  I was much like my son. The difference is that I truly believe computers and technology change a growing brain.  We originally let him have all this tech so he could learn how to manage it.  He has utterly failed and I feel like we can't backtrack with this particular child.

 

 

[nixpix5]

I know this has been spoken of before. I have a ds with mild depression. We’ve been giving him 1 1/2 hours of computer time per day. Once again (the fifth time), he found a device and has been doing programming stuff all night. As far as I can tell, he hasn’t slept for 2-3 days (browsing history). If we take the computer away, instant moderate to severe depression. The therapist seems to think if he’s sneaking the computer (he found his brother’s old computer that was not password locked), he needs more time in the computer. I think the only way his desire would be filled is 24 hour access. What do we do?!?! New therapist? This has been an ongoing problem for a year.

 

 

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As a therapist myself who is quite vocal about the reality of internet and gaming addiction, I definitely recommend a new therapist. Preferably one with experience treating this type of addiction. What your therapist is suggesting will lead your son into a perpetual depression trap. His depression is being maintained by the offset of his dopamine and serotonin due to screen time. Of course his serotonin will tank when not on screens. That is like telling a heroine addict that they should use all day to feel happy because they feel like garbage when not using. He needs a screen detox. It takes about 3 months to reset those receptors that have been recycled due to too much neurotransmitter output in gaming. During that time he would need to be carefully monitored, in intensive counseling and might need to consider a mood regulator temporarily to offset the deep depression that results from tech being taken. I have been treating this for years successfully and this is basic protocol. I have seen some parents place their children in an inpatient program for tech (when the child is an adolescent).

[forty-two]

The only reason why he is still allowed Minecraft is that he doesn't have a good replacement - something that he loves just as much. We know it needs to be replaced by something that brings him joy but we have tried for two years to find ANY interest and are turning up nothing. I remember reading teen romances around the 14 year old mark. I would get a huge stack from the library and read them when ever I could. I was much like my son. The difference is that I truly believe computers and technology change a growing brain. We originally let him have all this tech so he could learn how to manage it. He has utterly failed and I feel like we can't backtrack with this particular child.

Fwiw, fiction reading (which has been an addiction of sorts for me) is still my main means of relaxation. I haven't tried to find something to *replace* it - rather, I've focused on defining the appropriate place in the day for relaxation, to keep relaxation reading from taking over every free minute (and not-free minute) of the day. And I've tried to make sure I have enough good non-relaxation things to do to fill my non-relaxation parts of the day.

 

Which is to say, all those good things like exercise and non-Minecraft hobbies and such - maybe don't treat them as a *replacement* for Minecraft, but as *additions*. Figure out what sorts of things might lessen or reverse the brain changes associated with excess screen use, and *add* one or two to his life. Don't expect it to replace Minecraft in his life as a source of joy, but instead treat it as a part of a well-rounded life. Hopefully those things have some intrinsic value they add to life, so they are worthwhile in themselves, as well as worthwhile in counteracting the side effects of excessive tech use. Even if he never loves them as much as Minecraft, he can still enjoy them as part of life. I like the forms of exercise I do, even though, no, they don't bring me as much joy as reading and probably never will. It's why I still read. But I do better at life, and at keeping relaxation reading in its proper spot, when I also exercise.

 

You might be right you've let the genie out of the bottle wrt tech use, and Minecraft is always going to be his favorite thing ever, but I do think it's possible to carve out spots for the other things of life, and build up the habits of a well-rounded life in those spots. And to keep carving out more Minecraft-free areas until all the necessary parts of life have a spot. And eventually to learn to keep Minecraft for leisure time, and keep leisure time to a particular part of the day, instead of Minecraft/leisure time taking up every spare (and not-spare) minute. That last one might require going cold turkey, but then at least you've have already built up most of the habits of a well-rounded life, so he'd have quite a few alternate coping skills available.

 

Eta: it may be that literally no step of the process in building up a non-Minecraft life is possible for him so long as he is still using Minecraft - that a cold turkey detox is necessary in order to get anywhere. Certainly a cold turkey detox combined with impatient treatment where every part of the day is structured would provide good things to fill the hole left by the lack of mine craft. But if you aren't ready for cold turkey, then I think it's worth trying to carve out non-Minecraft spots and fill them with good things that will hopefully provide a foundation for carving out some more non-Minecraft spots and filling them with more good things, until either the problem is solved or you hit a wall that you can't get past.

Edited January 16, 2018 by forty-two

[TravelingChris]

The thing I see is whether he is actually addicted to the internet or just addressing his depression with internet like forty-two did with fiction reading.  So I agree with nixpix that any screen detox needs to be accopmpanied by intensive counseling, maybe medication, etc.  He is in a bad state already with the lack of sleep, etc.  Whether it is addiction or depression or both, and it really sounds like he does have depression, just cutting off and with lack of sleep particularly, makes suicide attempts a possibility,  Lack of sleep causes sleep psychosis.  I really strongly urge you to get psychiatric help, not just psychologist and definitely not that psychologist.

 

The good thing is that he is only 13 and you can help him.  I would very seriously urge you to get the genetic test done for him before anti-depressants are used.  Using an inappropriate antidepressant genetically can lead to worse states or be totally ineffective.

 

Prayers and just know that many of us here have had kids with issues like these and some of us have now turned the corner and things have really improved.

[mlktwins]

https://www.amazon.com/Glow-Kids-Screen-Addiction-Hijacking/dp/1250097991

 

This talks about Minecraft specifically too.  I got my copy from the library.

 

HUGS!!!

[bethben]

We have to be careful with medication. There are some extended family issues with bi-polar and the wrong anti-depressants can trigger that.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pen]

I think there are starting to be therapists specifically recognizing screen addiction issues. (As I was typing, other posts came in confirming this.)

 

 There are also some books that might help. One is called Glow Kids (more about the problem), and another has ideas for getting kids off the addiction; cannot recall title right now, but if you search Glow Kids on Amazon, it is likely to come up as something others looked at or bought.  One or the other book may give help to finding a therapist in your area who understands.  Or you might have to go a distance for help at this point.  

 

My ds went to a sleep away camp in the Cascades mountains that did not allow any screen type devices.  It is Northwest Youth Corps' Adventures camp, for 12 to 15 year olds.  There may be others like that elsewhere, where there are no screen devices allowed, and the camp gives other things to do, such as hike, in place of screen addiction.  

 

I gather there are also starting to be BMS schools that won't allow screens / cell phones at all, but don't know any particulars.

 

I do think you need a different therapist / psychiatrist.  

 

You very likely need a total fast from internet / screens / electronics.  eta: and maybe time out in nature away from more than just screens could become a help when he is ready for it.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Pen

[forty-two]

The thing I see is whether he is actually addicted to the internet or just addressing his depression with internet like forty-two did with fiction reading.

Also, my experience is that addictive coping techniques can take on a life of their own - that even when the reason for seeking out those things goes away, the habit of excessively seeking out the coping method can still remain. Especially when the chosen form of self-medication is addictive in its own right. Then you've got two problems: the original problem, and the addictive self-medicating.

[Hilltopmom]

We’ve had quite a few threads lately about internet and gaming addictions.

I’m dealing with this with my almost 18 year old and I really wish I would’ve pulled the plug on Minecraft at 13 (that’s how it started) when he first headed in this direction. I had a lot more control/ influence/ etc back then.

 

Get a new therapist. (Easier said than done though, I know)

Treat the depression. Remove the internet. (Truly I’m kicking myself for not doing it back then)

 

The stealing devices, lying, and staying up all night are your huge red flags.

 

Here’s a book for parents I just read that outlines how to do it:

http://www.techaddiction.ca/children-addicted-to-video-games.html

Edited January 16, 2018 by Hilltopmom

[Garga]

I can't help with the addiction problems, but you mentioned that he doesn't do physical activities and it sounds like you want him to do something.  Here are some ideas.  I'm sure he'll push back on all of them, (I have kids who push back on soooo many things, so I know what that's like), but here are some maybe to get you thinking:

 

He can walk on trails with you. 

He can play racquetball alone. 

He can roller skate around a rink pretty much alone (lost in a crowd--no interaction with others.) 

He can walk on a treadmill alone, while watching tv (if you have an ipad that makes it easier) or listening to music. 

He can do yoga alone following a DVD--or any other DVD. 

He can have a few sessions with a trainer to learn the correct form and then work out at a gym alone. 

He can walk around a track alone. 

He can walk up and down the street (if you have a sidewalk) once or twice a day alone.  

He can jump rope alone.

 

I have my exercise-phobic sons walk on the treadmill for 10 minutes between homeschool classes a couple of times a day.  They look at their phones while they walk.  I know they're not getting up to speed and sweating, but it's something.

 

 

[nixpix5]

One of the things the counselor told us we had to do was replace the games with dopamine-producing activities for the first month. It was exhausting but we did it. Car racing, classes on car racing, long hikes, new experiences and so on.

 

Simple games have been found as effective as morphine in relieving veterans of pain due to amputation. YES they reduce pain.

 

One last comment—for now: this physiological reaction delays the development of and starts destroying what is there of the pre-frontal cortex—the executive function. People who are addicted are less and less capable of making the decision to stop. The VERY good news is that there is a lot of time for rebuilding and recovery in the terms, and even the early twenties. But later twenties—no. Te time of development and recovery of that organ is over. Now is a really good time to get after this.

You had a brilliant therapist and you were so fortunate they knew how to help you get a handle on it. Your voice on this topic is so necessary because so many people think that game addition is like compulsion disorders and it just isn't. Screens produce so much brain change due to that dopamine dumping that the brain is wired to accommodate it. That is terrible for when that brain has to function in the real world. It becomes depression so quickly for many.

 

I also must add, video game addiction is especially damaging in the preteen to 15yo range due to brain pruning. The brain prunes away unused pathways and reinforces other pathways that are being used more strongly. Knowing what I know about neurobiology and neurochemistry it is a matter of time before they realize addicted gamers will be setting their brains up for life time issues. Driving dopamine and consequently serotonin in that way is going to ultimately wreck focus, delayed gratification, and executive functioning overall. When teens are not diagnosed with AD/HD until the late elementary or middle school years I automatically start asking about gaming history. It is usually the fact that they game a great deal.Not to mention the secondary depression that happens along with it.

Edited January 16, 2018 by nixpix5