Deciding what is fair.

[amy g.]

I think it is still relevant to the discussion. If I were in your position, I’d be asking myself, “Is Dh being eligible to retire in 12 years worth my accommodating his schedule now?â€

[EmseB]

Yeah, I get this I'm not stupid. I never said he would be sitting on his ass aftet retirement. He will just be more free to have a job that is more enjoyable without the pressure to provide as big an income. We have rental properties for additional income. Guys this is not what we are discussing. We are deciding whether or not I should expect my dh to devote 1-2 hours to his wife and kids on work days or not.

Sorry, I wasn't explaining it to you nor was implying you were stupid or any such thing. It was a tangent in the thread and I was addressing someone who seemed to assume retirement did mean not working at all anymore.

 

I had another whole post typed out wrt to the OP. It poofed.

 

I think you can only expect him to do those two hours if he's willing and wants to do it. To me it sounds reasonable, but if it doesn't sound reasonable to him then my opinion (or anyone's opinion here) doesn't matter. We can't decide that.

 

I would, like another poster said, stop focusing on what is fair or what you expect and just do what you are able to do. If what you are able to do conflicts with his expectations of you and schooling and such then he will have to make some adjustments to what he is willing to do or to his expectations.

[StephanieZ]

I haven't read all the replies, and so this may be totally not helpful, but just in case it is . . .

 

If I'm right that your oldest is barely 6 . . . Can I please point out that your homeschooling should take less than an hour a day. Really, truly. No more than 2 hours. For sure. That's 4-5 days a week. 

 

I raised 2 National Merit Scholars and my youngest is similarly off-the-charts accomplished. We did this on very few hours per day of "school" when the kids were little. Really, truly. Even with music lessons. 

 

Make sure to spend 20-30 min/day most days on teaching your 6 year old to read. Another 15-30 min/day on some sort of nice math thing. Then make sure your home is full of creative play options, limit screen time, have tons of books around, and read to all the kids for pleasure . . . That's ALL YOU HAVE TO DO FOR SIX YEAR OLDS. Ramp it up a tiny bit each year, and you're good to go. 

 

Really. Reading + Math is ALL you have to do at that age. If you truly have time and interest for more, that's great . . . but with a pack of little kids and not much time to spare, I'd urge you to pare back as much as possible. 

 

Give yourself a huge break. Cut back on the unnecessary things. Keep meals simple. Keep dishes simple. Keep laundry simple. No ironing, no complicated meals unless it truly nourishes your soul/heart to cook. NO VOLUNTEERING EVER. Say "no" to every unnecessary thing. Say "yes" to every offer of help. Skip church stuff, too, if that's in your life, as much as you can. Just stay home and BE. Give yourself a huge break and your family a huge break. Really, truly, please. 

 

Babies grow up way too fast. You're likely deep in the sleep-deprivation zone and the "I can be a perfect mom" zone . . . that zone where most of us lived when our kids were those ages. I doubt that many of us who have "made it to the other side" (and now know for sure that we can never be perfect, despite now being able to reliably get plenty of sleep) regret the pies we didn't bake or the starched shirts our dh didn't wear . . . (100% cotton no-iron dress shirts CHANGED MY LIFE, lol). Anyway, ignore me, of course, if what I'm saying isn't applicable or helpful. 

 

I sure wish I could go back in time and relive every day from the day my first was born. I'm 100% certain there'd be a little less cleaning, less volunteering, less curricula, less organized anything, and a lot more lazy days on the couch reading books or just napping. 

 

(((hugs)))

[marbel]

Yeah, I get this I'm not stupid. I never said he would be sitting on his ass aftet retirement. He will just be more free to have a job that is more enjoyable without the pressure to provide as big an income. We have rental properties for additional income. Most people that retire there end up working security or something. Guys this is not what we are discussing. We are deciding whether or not I should expect my dh to devote 1-2 hours to his wife and kids on work days or not, not his retirement or if he needs a new job or not.

 

It came up because you asked (paraphrasing) "wouldn't it be wonderful to be retired at 48?"  Which to me seemed like you meant not working at all anymore.  

[Elizabeth86]

It came up because you asked (paraphrasing) "wouldn't it be wonderful to be retired at 48?" Which to me seemed like you meant not working at all anymore.

Right, ok fair enough. Well whatever it sounds to you, he likes the idea of it.

[Elizabeth86]

I haven't read all the replies, and so this may be totally not helpful, but just in case it is . . .

 

If I'm right that your oldest is barely 6 . . . Can I please point out that your homeschooling should take less than an hour a day. Really, truly. No more than 2 hours. For sure. That's 4-5 days a week.

 

I raised 2 National Merit Scholars and my youngest is similarly off-the-charts accomplished. We did this on very few hours per day of "school" when the kids were little. Really, truly. Even with music lessons.

 

Make sure to spend 20-30 min/day most days on teaching your 6 year old to read. Another 15-30 min/day on some sort of nice math thing. Then make sure your home is full of creative play options, limit screen time, have tons of books around, and read to all the kids for pleasure . . . That's ALL YOU HAVE TO DO FOR SIX YEAR OLDS. Ramp it up a tiny bit each year, and you're good to go.

 

Really. Reading + Math is ALL you have to do at that age. If you truly have time and interest for more, that's great . . . but with a pack of little kids and not much time to spare, I'd urge you to pare back as much as possible.

 

Give yourself a huge break. Cut back on the unnecessary things. Keep meals simple. Keep dishes simple. Keep laundry simple. No ironing, no complicated meals unless it truly nourishes your soul/heart to cook. NO VOLUNTEERING EVER. Say "no" to every unnecessary thing. Say "yes" to every offer of help. Skip church stuff, too, if that's in your life, as much as you can. Just stay home and BE. Give yourself a huge break and your family a huge break. Really, truly, please.

 

Babies grow up way too fast. You're likely deep in the sleep-deprivation zone and the "I can be a perfect mom" zone . . . that zone where most of us lived when our kids were those ages. I doubt that many of us who have "made it to the other side" (and now know for sure that we can never be perfect, despite now being able to reliably get plenty of sleep) regret the pies we didn't bake or the starched shirts our dh didn't wear . . . (100% cotton no-iron dress shirts CHANGED MY LIFE, lol). Anyway, ignore me, of course, if what I'm saying isn't applicable or helpful.

 

I sure wish I could go back in time and relive every day from the day my first was born. I'm 100% certain there'd be a little less cleaning, less volunteering, less curricula, less organized anything, and a lot more lazy days on the couch reading books or just napping.

 

(((hugs)))

My school does last less than 2 hours, but drags out longer due to all the distractions from dd.

[Elizabeth86]

I think it is still relevant to the discussion. If I were in your position, I’d be asking myself, “Is Dh being eligible to retire in 12 years worth my accommodating his schedule now?â€

I mean what job is more family friendly? All our friends and neighbors lead a similar life. I just have no idea what he could do? I don't know anyone that has a schedule any more flexible than he does.

[Catwoman]

I mean what job is more family friendly? All our friends and neighbors lead a similar life. I just have no idea what he could do? I don't know anyone that has a schedule any more flexible than he does.

Personally, I think if he likes his job and will be able to retire with a pension in another 12 years when he is only 48 years old, I can absolutely understand why both you and your dh are in favor of him keeping that job. I agree with you that it will be wonderful for him to retire at 48, because if he can count on a decent pension, that's free money for the rest of your lives -- and we all know that life can be unpredictable. Sure, he will probably take another job so your family will have more money, but if for any reason he's unable to do that or if he ends up losing the new job, you'll always have that pension and the rental properties to fall back on.

 

It sounds like a good and sensible financial decision to me. :)

 

I do, however, think he can help you for at least an hour a day -- preferably occupying your little ones so you can have that uninterrupted time to homeschool your 6yo. I think that would remove a lot of stress for you, and the added bonus would be that your younger kids would get some extra one-on-one time playing with Dad. After your dh gets used to it, it could end up being his favorite part of the day.

 

 

(Edited for typo)

Edited December 10, 2017 by Catwoman

[eternalsummer]

Reading this and other similar posts in this thread make me appreciate my husband, both as a spouse and a father, more than ever.

 

To me it sounds like her husband has it fairly easy during the week compared to her being pregnant while caring for three young children and him, taking care of the house, and homeschooling (per his request).

 

He works nine hours at a job he seems to enjoy and find easy and relatively stress free.

He has a two hour rural carpool commute that likely offers him time to socialize and unwind.

He gets one hour of alone time each morning to slowly wake up and from previous posts, also gets to sleep in on the weekends while she gets up with the kids.

She makes all meals for the family, including his hot meals to go and prepares his clothes in the morning (from previous posts).

He potentially spends five hours during the week working out and socializing with coworkers.

 

And some people seem to think it's just fine that he basically not help or be involved with his children during the work week because there simply isn't time. I can't fathom having such low expectations for a spouse or father.

 

 

I've decided this has to be an issue of different styles of childcare and homemaking.

 

When I was home with 3 small kids and pregnant (and homeschooling) and DH was working, all of the childcare plus cooking plus cleaning plus "school" (what there is of it for a 1st grader) took a combined total of maybe 3 hours a day.  Maybe.  During my down time I started a business online and worked part time grading and, honestly, did a lot of nothing.

 

For some people, the three kids plus the home-making must take much more effort for some reason - size of house or style of childcare or amount of cleaning or cooking, I am not sure.

 

But for me, the idea that a breadwinner who commutes and works a total of 50+ hours a week is doing less work than a stay at home mom who has a washing machine and a refrigerator and prepared foods and frozen vegetables and a computer is just insane.

 

What's crazy is that for you, the reverse idea is insane!  People's experiences in life really vary, is my conclusion.

[maize]

I've decided this has to be an issue of different styles of childcare and homemaking.

 

When I was home with 3 small kids and pregnant (and homeschooling) and DH was working, all of the childcare plus cooking plus cleaning plus "school" (what there is of it for a 1st grader) took a combined total of maybe 3 hours a day. Maybe. During my down time I started a business online and worked part time grading and, honestly, did a lot of nothing.

 

For some people, the three kids plus the home-making must take much more effort for some reason - size of house or style of childcare or amount of cleaning or cooking, I am not sure.

 

But for me, the idea that a breadwinner who commutes and works a total of 50+ hours a week is doing less work than a stay at home mom who has a washing machine and a refrigerator and prepared foods and frozen vegetables and a computer is just insane.

 

What's crazy is that for you, the reverse idea is insane! People's experiences in life really vary, is my conclusion.

Yes, people's experiences vary.

 

I think yours is quite unusual. Perhaps you have unusually calm or compliant or not messy or needy children?

 

I found parenting one toddler exhausting--she was extremely clingy and needy and left me no time for household management.

 

Current baby is much the same actually, fortunately that oldest child is now a willing and competent helper!

 

My average day has always been much busier than my husband's, and my work is never done.

 

And no I do not have high standards for homemaking and meals. What I have is very intense children.

[eternalsummer]

Mine are neither calm nor compliant nor neat.  They are fairly self-reliant - the first wasn't, and I spent more time taking care of her individually than I ever did with 2+ at a time, just because she had to have someone to build the lego duplo castle with, and I was the only option.  

 

They're loud, but I ignore the loud.  They don't do much of what I tell them if I get on a telling them what to do all the time kick, but if I restrict it to just a few serious instructions when necessary they are pretty reasonable.  They are the uncleanest children you have ever met, but I don't own (after much experimentation with what I can safely own) makeup, paint, markers, glue, glitter, any toy with little pieces including board games, or a zillion other things that make a difficult-to-clean mess, including carpet in the main living areas.  If a 6 year old cannot clean up the mess made with an item, I either don't own it or it is in the tallest shelf behind something boring.  They spend 95% of the day covered in frozen blueberry stains with their boots and balls and sticks strewn about the floor.  (I would get rid of the blueberries but DH finds them non-negotiable).  

 

I think the self-reliance is probably a huge part of it, that is my guess.  They have all been blessedly potty trained at 2 with no trouble and can feed themselves from the fridge by 4; I cook once a day and it is never something complicated.  I do spend a lot of the day (interspersed now with the business) getting someone too short for the sink a drink of water or telling someone's sister not to irritate him on purpose or examining a finished masterpiece of some sort or listening to a Moana recital (ugh), but those things take 5 minutes each and don't feel like work, because I can do them while sitting at the computer eating an apple.

[EMS83]

I'm more stressed now than when my kids were little, honestly.

[eternalsummer]

I honestly can't comprehend this.  Just cooking pancakes takes like 20 to 30 minutes.  (which is why I don't do it every day lol. )  And then, even aside from housekeeping tasks at home, didn't you take kids out places?  Like, the library?  Or doc appointments?  or make a run out to the store first thing in the morning when you wake up and suddenly realize that crap that last roll of toilet paper you thought you had is NOT in the cabinet and you need TP NOW lol. 

 

 

I don't ever make pancakes.  Maybe twice a year.  Occasionally we all go to the park but it is rare; I tend to take a few of them with me when I get groceries (I rotate the few).  The older ones (6+) walk to the park or to their friends' houses down the street; we don't go to the library, I buy used books on Amazon (I have paid a small fortune in library fees, never again).  We have been to the doctor maybe 10x in the last dozen years (not including my prenatal appts).  We only go when sick, and they're never sick.  

 

I do make a store run fairly often, that is one of my major time sinks.  But it is 5 minutes away (we've always lived close to a grocery store, everywhere we've lived) so we're talking 30 minutes total for a serious shop and 15 minutes for a TP run.  

 

 

Maybe I'll illustrate with cooking/food to be more explicit, this is so interesting the difference in the way we run our houses!  So there have been two eras in cooking/food in our house: before my oldest was old enough to cook and after. :)  Before she was old enough, when the oldest was 6 or 7, breakfast was bread with butter, fruit, peanut butter bread, maaaaaaybe cereal.  They could get all of this themselves and still can, of course.  Now that DD12 cooks, we have oatmeal 4-5x/week (because she cooks it).  Lunch was always foraged.  By this I mean I keep things like hummus, leftovers, beans, bean dip, corn chips, salsa, carrots, fruit, bread, peanut butter, smoked salmon, bagels, etc. in the fridge and cabinets, and they help themselves.  When they were 7, 4, 1, and infant, the 7 and 4 year old would get the 1 year old something per her request or sometimes I would. Babies are annoying to feed but I tend to just cut something up into bits, plop in high chair, wait for destruction, sweep it up.  Dinner I cook but it is always things like steamed veg. (2 minutes to prepare), noodles (2 minutes total work), fish (2 minutes total work) - put it on a cookie sheet, salt, bake in oven, take out.  Or beans and bread, which takes 10 minutes - put beans in, salt, stir occasionally, take beans out.  Warm up bread.  Maybe make a salad - 5 minutes or less.  A fancy dinner is one where I buy a jar of curry sauce from Whole Foods and put it in a pan with shrimp.  A really fancy dinner (Iike, once a quarter fancy) is fajitas or meat pie or stew or something, where there are a variety of ingredients to cut up and cook separately.  That does take 45 minutes- an hour.

[eternalsummer]

Another example (not entirely fair because I have olders now so it is different than with just little kids): I stayed up super late last night getting orders out.  Like, super late.  Taking the mail to the post office at dawn late.  So I woke up DD this morning and told her I was sleeping in.  When I woke up a couple of hours after them they'd fed themselves leftover chili, bread, butter, and bananas for breakfast (not what I would have chosen but who am I to complain?) and were making a mess of a wooden castle and puzzle that came in the mail last week from Grandma.  If I'd been awake, they would have fed themselves chili, bread, butter, and bananas and made a mess of the puzzle - the difference would have been that I'd have had to ooh and aah occasionally at the puzzle accomplishment and say "stop irritating your brother" 5 or 10 times and sang the toddler Little Bunny Foo-Foo, his current preference.  I would have spent 100 out of the 120 minutes doing my own thing (as I am doing now while they play some game downstairs that sounds like it involves racing and occasional recrimination).  

 

When they were all little, I did have to always wake up with them, but other than that our days proceded more or less the same.

 

What do you all do for the first two hours of the day?  What is your time taken up with?

[maize]

I don't ever make pancakes. Maybe twice a year. Occasionally we all go to the park but it is rare; I tend to take a few of them with me when I get groceries (I rotate the few). The older ones (6+) walk to the park or to their friends' houses down the street; we don't go to the library, I buy used books on Amazon (I have paid a small fortune in library fees, never again). We have been to the doctor maybe 10x in the last dozen years (not including my prenatal appts). We only go when sick, and they're never sick.

 

I do make a store run fairly often, that is one of my major time sinks. But it is 5 minutes away (we've always lived close to a grocery store, everywhere we've lived) so we're talking 30 minutes total for a serious shop and 15 minutes for a TP run.

 

 

Maybe I'll illustrate with cooking/food to be more explicit, this is so interesting the difference in the way we run our houses! So there have been two eras in cooking/food in our house: before my oldest was old enough to cook and after. :) Before she was old enough, when the oldest was 6 or 7, breakfast was bread with butter, fruit, peanut butter bread, maaaaaaybe cereal. They could get all of this themselves and still can, of course. Now that DD12 cooks, we have oatmeal 4-5x/week (because she cooks it). Lunch was always foraged. By this I mean I keep things like hummus, leftovers, beans, bean dip, corn chips, salsa, carrots, fruit, bread, peanut butter, smoked salmon, bagels, etc. in the fridge and cabinets, and they help themselves. When they were 7, 4, 1, and infant, the 7 and 4 year old would get the 1 year old something per her request or sometimes I would. Babies are annoying to feed but I tend to just cut something up into bits, plop in high chair, wait for destruction, sweep it up. Dinner I cook but it is always things like steamed veg. (2 minutes to prepare), noodles (2 minutes total work), fish (2 minutes total work) - put it on a cookie sheet, salt, bake in oven, take out. Or beans and bread, which takes 10 minutes - put beans in, salt, stir occasionally, take beans out. Warm up bread. Maybe make a salad - 5 minutes or less. A fancy dinner is one where I buy a jar of curry sauce from Whole Foods and put it in a pan with shrimp. A really fancy dinner (Iike, once a quarter fancy) is fajitas or meat pie or stew or something, where there are a variety of ingredients to cut up and cook separately. That does take 45 minutes- an hour.

Yeah, different experiences.

 

Last year I calculated that as a family we had something in the range of 200 appointments with doctors, mental health counselors, speech therapists, dentists, opthalmologists, etc.

 

My kids get sick. They are super prone to ear infections, and most of them have had reactive airway disease when young (asthma symptoms when their lungs are irritated by something like a respiratory virus).

 

I won't go into everything that has necessitated intervention, but dealing with speech therapy alone for four separate children has been a huge time drain. These aren't easy issues, the twelve year old who has been in speech for years is still struggling.

 

I've worked full time, in a fairly intense profession. No way it came close to the challenge of raising multiple young children.

 

I do it because this is where my heart is, and because I think all the hard work is worthwhile. But it is, indeed, very hard.

[maize]

What do you all do for the first two hours of the day? What is your time taken up with?

The baby usually wakes up by about 6:30. I'll lie in bed and nurse as long as he is willing to because once I get up I know dd2 will wake up and need me. Eventually I get up, wake Dh and have him watch the baby while I got to the bathroom and then get his meds for the day and take them to him. Then we all gather in the big kids' room for a morning devotional, then I help Dh get out the door to work while juggling the baby, changing diapers, moderating fights, helping people find clothes, etc. Depending on the day between 1 and 4 of my older kids need to be somewhere by 9:00 so we're making lunches and getting people ready and trying to make sure everyone gets some breakfast. If all four need to be out the door I have to have the littles ready to go as well, if one of the older two will be home I can leave them while I drive someone.

 

That pretty much covers the first two hours.

[eternalsummer]

Yeah, different experiences.

 

Last year I calculated that as a family we had something in the range of 200 appointments with doctors, mental health counselors, speech therapists, dentists, opthalmologists, etc.

 

My kids get sick. They are super prone to ear infections, and most of them have had reactive airway disease when young (asthma symptoms when their lungs are irritated by something like a respiratory virus).

 

I won't go into everything that has necessitated intervention, but dealing with speech therapy alone for four separate children has been a huge time drain. These aren't easy issues, the twelve year old who has been in speech for years is still struggling.

 

I've worked full time, in a fairly intense profession. No way it came close to the challenge of raising multiple young children.

 

I do it because this is where my heart is, and because I think all the hard work is worthwhile. But it is, indeed, very hard.

 

Wow!  That is a huge difference!  I'm so sorry you have to deal with that much just with the doctors and therapists.  The few times we ever have to go to the doctor (or when a kid has a cold or croup or something) it is a huge time drain and everything goes to pieces for a few days.

[EMS83]

Hmm.. on a good day, the first two hours involve prayers, coffee, breakfast, and beginning chores or seatwork. On a "bad" day, those two hours involve coffee and our finances with the kids still in their rooms (DD on her 2DS and the boys playing pretend things). It varies between those two. Ideaaly I get the up at 7:00, but when I have spells of poor sleep (like this month), that's extra hard and I succeed less. Breakfast is cereal, granola bars, juice, and fruit. Sometimes scrambled eggs. They get everything else ready, but if we have eggs, I usually cook them. Occasionally DD does, though. They clean up afterward, too.

[Rachel]

When I was home with 3 small kids and pregnant (and homeschooling) and DH was working, all of the childcare plus cooking plus cleaning plus "school" (what there is of it for a 1st grader) took a combined total of maybe 3 hours a day. Maybe. During my down time I started a business online and worked part time grading and, honestly, did a lot of nothing.

This is not my experience at all. You may be more efficient or expect your kids to do more, but I don’t think most homeschooling parents only have 3 hours of work to do per day.

 

My kids are pretty helpful around the house but even when my oldest was a first grader there was no way I could accomplish caring for my kids and household in 3 hours day.

[DawnM]

Soooo....here we go. Dh is changing to the 2nd shift at work this quarter. This means he will get off work at midnight and home at 1. 2 if he and his friends workout which they do sometimes. I pretty much have always let him sleep until he is ready to wake up, but life is really really busy for me right now and I really need a few hours of help in the morning with school or playing with the littles while I do school. I would like him to help make his own lunch too. He has to leave for work at 1 in the afternoon, so is there a good fair time for me to expect him to be up and helping the family. He usually requires an hour of silence and a cup of coffee, a cigarette and time to waste on his phone and poop before he is willing to talk to any of us. So, if he fell asleep at 3 am and he would need to sleep until 11 to get 8 hours of sleep and it would be noon before he was functional and then it would be time to get ready to leave for work. I can't ask him because he will say to wake him when I need him, he will be fine. Well that would ideally be at 8 am and this just wouldn't be good. Realistically I would like him up at 9 or 10. So, what do you think is fair in this situation. If I just let him to do what is natural, he will have between 0 and 5 hours with us during his work week. I personally think he needs to come home and go to bed at 1:30 and only work out on the weekends, but I hate to ask him not too. Also, he always gets to sleep until he wakes up every weekend.

 

 

Is this a permanent change?

 

Did he help when he wasn't on 2nd shift?  What did he do then to help?

 

As for lunch, DH just takes last night's dinner and heats it up at work.  He makes up his container as we are putting away the leftovers.  Everyone knows it is his and not to touch it.

 

Honestly, I would let him sleep.  Yeah, I would ask him to change his sleep schedule and go to bed earlier and get up a little earlier, but I would allow him to sleep a min. of 8 hours.  It is important for his health.  

 

I had a toddler and older boys I was homeschooling.  I did more workbook type (we did Singapore, some CLE for writing, and a few other workbooks) so they could do some things independently.   The toddler had a few preschool type things to "play school" too and liked those.  I admit he was a pretty easy kid and wanted to be like his big brothers, so I didn't have too much of a problem that way.

[Ausmumof3]

Morning here is feeding all the pets, breakfast, gather and sort washing at least a couple of days a week, if there's time make the bed, empty the dishwasher and exercise and give the bathroom a quick tidy.

 

School starts at 8 or 9ish with morning memory work and read alouds then we have two hour of maths/literacy and Lote where I'm spread between three kids. In that time I'll also be switching and hanging out washing. Lunch is 12 till 1 - most days I might cook eggs on toast and cut up some salad by the time I do that and clean up and get the kids to pack up school stuff it's 1ish. 1-2 is content subjects - history, geography or science. If we get done by 2 I try to get outside and do some exercise or sport other than the day we have outside the house sport but most days it runs into 2.30 or 3. I then spend an hour a day dedicated to one bigger housekeeping task - tiled areas one day, carpet another, bills filing and planning, grocery shopping, the small amount of ironing I do (because DH likes his workshirts ironed and I love him enough to do that) or out of the house sport. We then have laundry folding and tidying hour where everything gets pulled off the line and put away and we all work together to tidy up. Then it's 5 and I cook tea and tidy the kitchen, get meat out the freezer, we eat and clean up. Then there's evening pet chores, baths and showers and maybe a board game or book or a quick walk on the nights we aren't at cricket or TKD.

 

Anywhere we go is at least 20 most often 30 minutes away. Which means an hour driving several times a week.

 

Saturday is farm stuff and Sunday is church and school marking and planning day.

 

That's how it looks homeschooling and caring for a house here. I don't know how people manage in three or four hours a day.

[emmaluv+2more]

I cannot even fathom only needing to actively "parent" for 3 hours a day. It is a full time job for me (4 kids) and I'm a single parent, so I also work for pay (mostly at night when kids are in be, as I work from home).

 

The only true free time I get is if I stay up too late after kids are in bed or on the 3 days per month that their dad has them, but even then I'm usually cleaning or running errands.

 

To the op: my former (married) situation was much like yours, but I am divorced now. I feel for you and have no advice (because, divorced). I hope you and your dh are able to find the right balance for all involved.

 

ETA: I mean zero offense to those able to do it in 3 hours each day. I truly envy you.

Edited December 10, 2017 by emmaluv+2more

[eternalsummer]

Ah, maybe that is part of it too!  we don't make beds. 

I don't dress anyone over the age of 3 - I don't care if their shirt is on backwards or they're wearing shorts in winter - if they want to go outside I say "go put on some pants" but otherwise that is their deal. 

 

Most of homeschooling they do independently/together as kids (like TOPScience they do together, but I am not involved) or I talk to them about it/explain things while doing some physical work, largely for the business. 

 

I have had one bedwetter, for about 2 years (he wasn't dry at night until 4), but he largely took care of disposing of his night-time pull-up himself and rarely did we end up with wet sheets (although I did wash a lot more sheets those two years - but then, stripping the sheet and putting it in the washing machine only takes 90 seconds so not a big deal). 

 

We don't have church, I don't mark school work, we don't do scouts or etc., I don't iron, DH does all the bills (and there is no filing them, I think he just pays them online when they come in the mail), we do have a dryer which is a huge time saver and one I'm grateful for as I spent a hard year with no washer and dryer, we don't have pets, I have nothing to do with bathing -they bathe or don't as they please.  I do have to say "someone come clean up the water in the bathroom again" twice a week at least, though.  I take baths with the littlest ones, but that is my bath time too so I never thought of it as work - and they only get bathed every couple of days anyway.  

 

There is literally nothing to tidy in any of our bathrooms (except water left on the floor, grr, but I don't do it). 

 

I don't sort washing, everything gets washed on cold and dried on hot.  If it can't be washed that way I don't own it.

 

I don't wake anyone up.  They wake up when they wake up.

 

I don't own a toaster :)  They eat bread untoasted with butter.  

 

We don't pray or do devotionals (we're not religious).  I don't make lunches and I don't find anyone's clothes for them (except the baby's).  I don't live on a farm :)  There is no yardwork to speak of as it's all pine needles.  We do play card games together at night but this definitely isn't work.

 

 

I think maybe I am just a much more neglectful mother than you guys.  You are all the mothers my kids dream of, probably :)

[maize]

Ah, maybe that is part of it too! we don't make beds.

I don't dress anyone over the age of 3 - I don't care if their shirt is on backwards or they're wearing shorts in winter - if they want to go outside I say "go put on some pants" but otherwise that is their deal.

 

Most of homeschooling they do independently/together as kids (like TOPScience they do together, but I am not involved) or I talk to them about it/explain things while doing some physical work, largely for the business.

 

I have had one bedwetter, for about 2 years (he wasn't dry at night until 4), but he largely took care of disposing of his night-time pull-up himself and rarely did we end up with wet sheets (although I did wash a lot more sheets those two years - but then, stripping the sheet and putting it in the washing machine only takes 90 seconds so not a big deal).

 

We don't have church, I don't mark school work, we don't do scouts or etc., I don't iron, DH does all the bills (and there is no filing them, I think he just pays them online when they come in the mail), we do have a dryer which is a huge time saver and one I'm grateful for as I spent a hard year with no washer and dryer, we don't have pets, I have nothing to do with bathing -they bathe or don't as they please. I do have to say "someone come clean up the water in the bathroom again" twice a week at least, though. I take baths with the littlest ones, but that is my bath time too so I never thought of it as work - and they only get bathed every couple of days anyway.

 

There is literally nothing to tidy in any of our bathrooms (except water left on the floor, grr, but I don't do it).

 

I don't sort washing, everything gets washed on cold and dried on hot. If it can't be washed that way I don't own it.

 

I don't wake anyone up. They wake up when they wake up.

 

I don't own a toaster :) They eat bread untoasted with butter.

 

We don't pray or do devotionals (we're not religious). I don't make lunches and I don't find anyone's clothes for them (except the baby's). I don't live on a farm :) There is no yardwork to speak of as it's all pine needles. We do play card games together at night but this definitely isn't work.

 

 

I think maybe I am just a much more neglectful mother than you guys. You are all the mothers my kids dream of, probably :)

You have intentionally chosen to keep things simple, that is certainly not neglect and it is something all of us have some control over. As you know I'm working on that aspect with regard to my home.

 

Some differences do stem I think from different perspectives on child rearing and maybe different goals for our children.

 

I maintain though that you have lucked out in many things, and that given a different set of children you would find yourself needing to be much more involved. You have not had children who needed years of help to become fully potty trained (and dealt with the co-occuring poop smearing phase...) or a child who was inclined towards an eating disorder and needed to be supervised to make sure food was eaten and who only improved mental health wise with heavy extracurricular involvement, or a child with severe anxiety and OCD issues, or one with dyslexia who required years of intensive instruction to learn to read or one with ADHD that prevented them from focusing unless you sit with them while they do all their work or kids with motor skill delays that make learning to dress themselves take a long time.

 

None of my children has inherited their dad's hearing impairment and eye issues, but the two of us together sure seem to have passed on enough challenging traits :D

 

They're awesome kids though and I really enjoy spending my days with them.

[maize]

And I'm up in the middle of the night because my baby is sick and not sleeping well...

[eternalsummer]

You have intentionally chosen to keep things simple, that is certainly not neglect and it is something all of us have some control over. As you know I'm working on that aspect with regard to my home.

 

Some differences do stem I think from different perspectives on child rearing and maybe different goals for our children.

 

I maintain though that you have lucked out in many things, and that given a different set of children you would find yourself needing to be much more involved. You have not had children who needed years of help to become fully potty trained (and dealt with the co-occuring poop smearing phase...) or a child who was inclined towards an eating disorder and needed to be supervised to make sure food was eaten and who only improved mental health wise with heavy extracurricular involvement, or a child with severe anxiety and OCD issues, or one with dyslexia who required years of intensive instruction to learn to read or one with ADHD that prevented them from focusing unless you sit with them while they do all their work or kids with motor skill delays that make learning to dress themselves take a long time.

 

None of my children has inherited their dad's hearing impairment and eye issues, but the two of us together sure seem to have passed on enough challenging traits :D

 

They're awesome kids though and I really enjoy spending my days with them.

 

Definitely I have lucked out, especially with regards to education.  I have one sort of crazy-ish kid (the one who was a runner until he was about 6, and has some ADHD characteristics) - he's the main reason we started homeschooling.  For him, luckily for us, staying home really makes a huge difference with his more challenging behaviors, as he sort of turns on in group situations and calms down in our calmer environment.

 

I'm sorry your little one is sick :(  We just went through a round of croup and boy, I don't know that I slept 4 hours total in the last 2 nights.

[Sandwalker]

I get everything except that the bathrooms don't need to be cleaned?

[eternalsummer]

Cleaned, occasionally (especially during a potty-training period) - maybe once or twice a week?  It takes 5 minutes or less -spray floor, spray around toilet, wipe with paper towel, throw away paper towel. 

 

Tidied, no.  They just hang up their towels and that is all they had in there besides themselves (and the zillion cups they stole from the kitchen, which are generally returned or rounded up when they get thirsty).  We don't really leave soap down, and never shampoo/conditioner - DD12 and DS9 know how to reach it and return it to the top shelf of the linen closet, the rest of them get shampooed maybe once a week or once every two weeks, barring disaster.  They use soap on hands at the sink but not in the bath.  I bring the toothbrushes and toothpaste down in the evenings (or someone is commissioned to go grab the toothpaste and toothbrushes) and they all sort of brush(ish) in a frenzy and then rinse and put them back up. They are not great brushers but I xylitol gel them a few times a day (just a quick swipe, for the youngers) and they only drink water.  

 

I am trying to think of what other people have in bathrooms when I see their bathrooms - my mom has a whole apothecary.  She's got hand towels and washcloths and bath salts and bath oils and lotion and shaving cream and razors and a poof and a bath brush and fancy toothbrush and holder and etc.  I have long since dispensed with all of that. I keep lotion and a razor on the top shelf in our bathroom (which the kids don't use); the rest of it I don't own.  We use the lotion maybe twice a month if it gets dried out in the house from excessive heater use.  

[Ausmumof3]

Ah, maybe that is part of it too! we don't make beds.

I don't dress anyone over the age of 3 - I don't care if their shirt is on backwards or they're wearing shorts in winter - if they want to go outside I say "go put on some pants" but otherwise that is their deal.

 

Most of homeschooling they do independently/together as kids (like TOPScience they do together, but I am not involved) or I talk to them about it/explain things while doing some physical work, largely for the business.

 

I have had one bedwetter, for about 2 years (he wasn't dry at night until 4), but he largely took care of disposing of his night-time pull-up himself and rarely did we end up with wet sheets (although I did wash a lot more sheets those two years - but then, stripping the sheet and putting it in the washing machine only takes 90 seconds so not a big deal).

 

We don't have church, I don't mark school work, we don't do scouts or etc., I don't iron, DH does all the bills (and there is no filing them, I think he just pays them online when they come in the mail), we do have a dryer which is a huge time saver and one I'm grateful for as I spent a hard year with no washer and dryer, we don't have pets, I have nothing to do with bathing -they bathe or don't as they please. I do have to say "someone come clean up the water in the bathroom again" twice a week at least, though. I take baths with the littlest ones, but that is my bath time too so I never thought of it as work - and they only get bathed every couple of days anyway.

 

There is literally nothing to tidy in any of our bathrooms (except water left on the floor, grr, but I don't do it).

 

I don't sort washing, everything gets washed on cold and dried on hot. If it can't be washed that way I don't own it.

 

I don't wake anyone up. They wake up when they wake up.

 

I don't own a toaster :) They eat bread untoasted with butter.

 

We don't pray or do devotionals (we're not religious). I don't make lunches and I don't find anyone's clothes for them (except the baby's). I don't live on a farm :) There is no yardwork to speak of as it's all pine needles. We do play card games together at night but this definitely isn't work.

 

 

I think maybe I am just a much more neglectful mother than you guys. You are all the mothers my kids dream of, probably :)

See this I don't get. I don't think your necessarily neglectful but if I don't make the bed occasionally the sheets are all on the floor after a couple of night and were sleeping on the mattress. If I don't hassle my kids to pick up I couldn't even get into the bathroom after their clothes after a couple of days. My kids don't brush teeth or hair without reminders. Our bathrooms get gross. I can't imagine not doing that stuff at all. It's not a high priority but it does need to be done just to keep us from living in filth. I'm not saying you are living in filth. We are just clumsy distractible cluttery people that seem to need a lot of cleaning up after.

 

If I sent my kids off with a tops experiment to do alone I hate to think what would happen. I mean I do have one kids that likes doing science - baking soda and vinegar and stuff like that but if I don't supervise he doesn't learn any actual science he just has fun and makes a mess.

[Rachel]

And I'm up in the middle of the night because my baby is sick and not sleeping well...

I’m sorry! I hope baby sleeps in so you can get some rest this morning. Edited December 10, 2017 by Rach

[eternalsummer]

The only ones who have hair long enough for brushing are the girls and they are internally motivated :)  The boys sort of have 1 or 2 inch long hair and it doesn't tangle or anything.  We have those great sheets from Target, these: https://www.target.com/p/ultra-soft-fitted-sheet-300-thread-count-threshold-153/-/A-13973172 - I like them because you can buy just the fitteds (which is all I buy) and they stay on the beds really well.  I have had sheets before that fall off, that drives me NUTS.  

 

We have the washer and dryer right next to the bathroom so they largely just drop their clothes into the washing machine after a bath (or put them back on).  About once a week I do have to say, someone go put all the clothes from the bathroom in the washer, because they've left something in there, but it takes 30 seconds. 

 

For a while we lived in a house with the washer and dryer in the basement. That sucked.  I was always way behind on laundry, nothing ever got down there, it was a mess.  

 

My mom's house had the washer and dryer in the basement but there was a laundry chute in the bathroom (basically just a hole in the wall with a flap, and the hole went through to the basement, where a basket waited to receive your clothes).  I thought that was genius.

 

 

Mine mostly just make a mess with the TOPScience stuff too, but they fill out the sheets with the questions so I am okay with it :)  They are secluded to a room to do it (just DS9 and DD12, occasionally DD6 who is the best behaved 6 year old in the history of the universe, completely by accident) and have to have everything back in the box to be done. Most of DD12's actual science is learned through Prentice Hall (the dragonfly book), which she self-studies; DS9 reads books and keeps a nature journal and watches this and that online to supplement.  We don't do a systematic science program until 6th/7th, just pick up bits of content knowledge and process of investigation understanding before that.

[Ausmumof3]

The only ones who have hair long enough for brushing are the girls and they are internally motivated :) The boys sort of have 1 or 2 inch long hair and it doesn't tangle or anything. We have those great sheets from Target, these: https://www.target.com/p/ultra-soft-fitted-sheet-300-thread-count-threshold-153/-/A-13973172 - I like them because you can buy just the fitteds (which is all I buy) and they stay on the beds really well. I have had sheets before that fall off, that drives me NUTS.

 

We have the washer and dryer right next to the bathroom so they largely just drop their clothes into the washing machine after a bath (or put them back on). About once a week I do have to say, someone go put all the clothes from the bathroom in the washer, because they've left something in there, but it takes 30 seconds.

 

For a while we lived in a house with the washer and dryer in the basement. That sucked. I was always way behind on laundry, nothing ever got down there, it was a mess.

 

My mom's house had the washer and dryer in the basement but there was a laundry chute in the bathroom (basically just a hole in the wall with a flap, and the hole went through to the basement, where a basket waited to receive your clothes). I thought that was genius.

 

 

Mine mostly just make a mess with the TOPScience stuff too, but they fill out the sheets with the questions so I am okay with it :) They are secluded to a room to do it (just DS9 and DD12, occasionally DD6 who is the best behaved 6 year old in the history of the universe, completely by accident) and have to have everything back in the box to be done. Most of DD12's actual science is learned through Prentice Hall (the dragonfly book), which she self-studies; DS9 reads books and keeps a nature journal and watches this and that online to supplement. We don't do a systematic science program until 6th/7th, just pick up bits of content knowledge and process of investigation understanding before that.

Yeah I can see that working maybe. Your kids are actually exactly my kids ages but a year ahead and it's getting more efficient. I do spend quite a bit more time actively schooling but it is reducing. I think my kids executive function is a bit behind the average and actually so is mine so that probably doesn't help.

 

Sorry to keep questioning - I always get bogged down on these threads because it seems so mind boggling to me when people find housekeeping and child care easy because it always seems so darn hard to me.

 

Also I'm an extreme introvert ... Which means things like playing games or cricket with my kids after a day of school definitely do feel like work. I do them because they are important for the kids and I see the value but they are not what I'd do to relax by choice.

[eternalsummer]

I like to hear how other people's families work too - it is mind boggling to me to have a full day's work just from childcare and housework and it is so enlightening to understand how it actually works in reality for other people.  For instance, I had never considered the doctor's visits issue - we just (blessedly) never go, and I never thought about other people having to manage that kind of thing.

 

It is a lot more efficient now than it was 2 years ago, that is for sure.  I told DD12 and DS9 just a year ago that they were in the hardest part, when we were running a small business from home and there were 4 littles and just an 11 and 8 year old to do actual help with housework, and that it would only get easier from there.  Now that the then-3 year old is 4 and the then-5 year old is 6, it is much easier.  The 6 year old can sort of help clean up (sort of) and at least can pick up after herself and feed herself and bathe herself and etc., and the 4 year old is very close (he is a meticulous kid so that helps).  Just 2 years ago, DD12 (then 10) was doing 90% of the dishes and 75% of the laundry and all the sweeping and mopping.  Now she and DS9 split the dishes, and the others are better able to rinse theirs; all of them can pretty much load the washing machine and the three oldest can put clothes away from the dryer; the three oldest all split the sweeping and mopping (we use those disposable swiffer wet pad things, so it is fool-proof).  There are also fewer kids making messes, which helps :)

 

I will say that I thought school would be easier and easier as they got older, as I figured a 12 year old would be more self-sufficient than a 10 year old, especially with online classes and etc.

 

Nope. Nada.  DD12 takes twice as long to homeschool as DS9, who takes twice as long as DD6 (whom, admittedly, I am just teaching to read and do basic math operations).  I do dread the day when I have two highschoolers and a middle schooler.  I think at that point I am going to have to either shell out the $ for mostly outsourced classes or give up my end of the business, because math questions, even though she is bright and self-teaching, are just much more complicated to explain in Pre-A than they are in the 4 operations stage.  (Not to mention writing!  And biology! ugh)  I even spend 10 minutes a day discussing Latin, which I do not speak, have no interest in, and pay good money for someone else to teach her.  ETA: but I spend those minutes (and most other discussion that doesn't require me to look things up on the internet) while I am doing some physical task.

Edited December 10, 2017 by eternalsummer

[eternalsummer]

My executive function skills are terrible.  I forget, routinely, to put on another roll of TP when the current one runs out.  I forget to pay the bills and order supplies for the business and if I go to the store for bread I will come home without the bread unless I see it on the shelf as I walk by.  DD12 has had to manage all of her own online class responsibilities because I absolutely cannot remember when anything is due or what time the classes are or what her password is.  Thank the lord, she has a lot of executive function.   I've developed coping strategies for all of these things and they work pretty well, but DH does do a huge amount of what you would call the management of the household, and carries the mental burden of that sort of worry.

[Xahm]

I think this mental burden part of things is huge. I carry the mental burden on our family for all the family and household stuff, though dh knows some about it. Dh carries it for his jobs and family finances, though naturally I know some about it. Figuring out who various what in each family is often overlooked and can easily lead to lots of household strife. When my kids can carry more of their own, that will make my down time far more relaxing.

 

My executive function skills are terrible. I forget, routinely, to put on another roll of TP when the current one runs out. I forget to pay the bills and order supplies for the business and if I go to the store for bread I will come home without the bread unless I see it on the shelf as I walk by. DD12 has had to manage all of her own online class responsibilities because I absolutely cannot remember when anything is due or what time the classes are or what her password is. Thank the lord, she has a lot of executive function. I've developed coping strategies for all of these things and they work pretty well, but DH does do a huge amount of what you would call the management of the household, and carries the mental burden of that sort of worry.

[lovinmyboys]

There is a writer, Laura Vanderkam, who writes a lot about how people have more time than they think they do. One of the things she says is that a lot of what keeps us busy is actually optional. No one needs to spend more than 30 minutes getting a meal on the table. Most people could lower their housework standards. We don’t have to run our kids to lots of activities or organize activities for them at home . It sounds like eternal summer has chosen to simplify cooking, housework, and child care in order to spend more time in her business.

Edited December 10, 2017 by lovinmyboys

[Ausmumof3]

Hmm when I say "tidy the bathroom"'I actually mean squirt some toilet clean in, wipe over the basin, empty the bins and maybe dry the shower or give it a quick scrub. I'm not talking a full scale clean just a bit of light maintenance. We do have two and I'm working on getting the kids to do theirs.

[Supertechmom]

While my home isn't as simplified as eternal summer, I will say that if I fully clean, homeschool ALL the things, and cook, I'm still looking at less than 5 hours max.   We have 2 baths and they get spritzed and wiped down everyday, mopped once a week, beds are made daily, laundry done daily, vacuum everything but the bedrooms daily, and dust once a week.  And due to food allergies, I do have to cook most of our stuff from scratch which is where the majority of my time is spent with homeschooling 3 kids next. I followed flylady for a long time and the house is a breeze to clean cause I decided what was worth dusting (which amounts to a handful of items) and figured out everything must have a place or things get tossed. Hubby is dying to get a griddle and I'm like find a place for it because the counter is not acceptable and there isn't any cabinet space.  When you find a spot, get one.

 

Now there were times when I was overwhelmed and had way too much to due and said SCREW THAT!   Then we focused on the important stuff.   To my hubby, he likes the house picked up and perfect when he comes home and to smell good.  Okay.... I get that.   So we do a pick up before he comes home.   and we do one around lunch.  Everything has a place and everything in its place and if you don't want to take care of your stuff, then pick it up and put in the trash....I don't care what you do with it but pick it up is your only option.  Sometimes, the kids say SCREW THAT and decide the toy/game/thing is not worth the time it takes to pick it up and they haul it to the trash.  Most times, they put it away.   But, everything has a place so it makes it really easy and no one kid has enough stuff to make it hard for even a 4 year old to put everything back. (they may choose not to but that is a different story).  

 

It is important to me that the bathrooms be clean and good food on the table.   

 

The rest of it, I agree with Eternal summer.....whatever they come out dressed in is good enough unless it involves a societal expectation that requires special dress arrangements (black tie, weddings, special events etc) They get their own food for breakfast and lunch unless I'm feeling super pumped at cooking another meal. The makings of those meals are prepped though when I buy groceries.  I no longer give a rat's pootie about well dressed, perfect, matching, ironed etc. They are clean, hygiene completed and done.  IF they want to look better, I show them how. I make sure I look good and they tend to follow.  If they could care less,  well for the most part, I let the natural consequences of weird looks and comments from others clue them into maybe they should have tried a little more this morning. (side eye at the teen son who likes the "I rolled out my cardboard box bed under a bridge" including scruffy beard face look. He even uses  a soap called dirty hippie :svengo: )

 

And I don't take care of my husband.  He's a grown ass man and I am doing the majority of the parenting trying to raise some people to become grown ass adults.   Thus,  he can figure out how to make his  own lunch, his own dinner even if he doesn't like the meal. Over the years of multiple bed rests during my pregnancies, he discovered he would rather clean the tub and do the laundry ( our clothing, he only in the last couple of years figured out towels and sheets are washed too LOL!).  So he does those two chores, each kid does their own laundry and bedding, and I make sure everyone knows how to take care of all their stuff and keep it running.  He's grateful the house is typically clean and food in the pantry and a meal on the table, the bills paid and that the kids can and will help with household chores.  I'm delighted I don't have to clean the freaking tub or put our laundry away.  Win-Win!!!!

[unsinkable]

There is a writer, Laura Vanderkam, who writes a lot about how people have more time than they think they do. One of the things she says is that a lot of what keeps us busy is actually optional. No one needs to spend more than 30 minutes getting a meal on the table. Most people could lower their housework standards. We don’t have to run our kids to lots of activities or organize activities for them at home . It sounds like eternal summer has chosen to simplify cooking, housework, and child care in order to spend more time in her business.

You can simplify childcare but you can't simplify children.

 

There is a difference between occasional baths and occasionally paying attention to them.

 

Some child raising tasks shouldn't be reduced to the "the least I can get away with." I'm not saying that is what anyone in this thread is doing but as a parenting philosphy, I think it isn't necessarily a good one.

[maize]

My executive function skills are terrible. I forget, routinely, to put on another roll of TP when the current one runs out. I forget to pay the bills and order supplies for the business and if I go to the store for bread I will come home without the bread unless I see it on the shelf as I walk by. DD12 has had to manage all of her own online class responsibilities because I absolutely cannot remember when anything is due or what time the classes are or what her password is. Thank the lord, she has a lot of executive function. I've developed coping strategies for all of these things and they work pretty well, but DH does do a huge amount of what you would call the management of the household, and carries the mental burden of that sort of worry.

I wondered about this because I know you'd talked about executive function difficulties before. I can see how a lot would be more manageable with a spouse who was good with EG stuff.

 

I'm ADHD and my spouse, while not ADHD, is actually worse in the EF department than me--at least at home. He doesn't have my chaotic brain but he is so easily overwhelmed. The most help I ever get from him is a few hours holding the baby or reading to the toddler during the week and sometimes taking the kids to a park or library or museum on a weekend. Every single aspect of managing the family falls to me, including finances, taxes, bills, yard work, handyman stuff, car stuff, everything.

 

This thread was about lack of full partnership and I am thinking maybe you have never experienced that.

Edited December 10, 2017 by maize

[Catwoman]

You can simplify childcare but you can't simplify children.

 

There is a difference between occasional baths and occasionally paying attention to them.

 

Some child raising tasks shouldn't be reduced to the "the least I can get away with." I'm not saying that is what anyone in this thread is doing but as a parenting philosphy, I think it isn't necessarily a good one.

:iagree:

 

I know a few moms who brag about how it's such a great thing that their kids do all of the cooking, laundry, and housework and have to find ways to occupy themselves on their own and look after the younger kids, while the moms spend most of their days on Pinterest and Facebook, and they laugh about how they hate it when they have to play with their kids or listen to them talk about their day because it's "so boring." :glare: It makes me wonder why they even bothered to have children.

[lovinmyboys]

You can simplify childcare but you can't simplify children.

 

There is a difference between occasional baths and occasionally paying attention to them.

 

Some child raising tasks shouldn't be reduced to the "the least I can get away with." I'm not saying that is what anyone in this thread is doing but as a parenting philosphy, I think it isn't necessarily a good one.

I agree and I also feel like I need to say that the author I was speaking of isn’t advocating benign neglect or whatever. She has pointed out that travel sports and elaborate birthday parties are choices. And also that preschoolers don’t really need a bath every day in the winter. Stuff like that-not sending everyone to the basement all day. I don’t want to misrepresent her views. Edited December 10, 2017 by lovinmyboys

[unsinkable]

I agree and I also feel like I need to say that the author I was speaking of isn’t advocating benign neglect or whatever. She has pointed out that travel sports and elaborate birthday parties are choices. And also that preschoolers don’t really need a bath every day in the winter. Stuff like that-not sending everyone to the basement all day. I don’t want to misrepresent her views.

Thanks...I'd like to read her stuff. It sounds interesting.

[KungFuPanda]

Yeah, I get this I'm not stupid. I never said he would be sitting on his ass aftet retirement. He will just be more free to have a job that is more enjoyable without the pressure to provide as big an income. We have rental properties for additional income. Most people that retire there end up working security or something. Guys this is not what we are discussing. We are deciding whether or not I should expect my dh to devote 1-2 hours to his wife and kids on work days or not, not his retirement or if he needs a new job or not.

You know what? Yes. Absolutely yes you should expect your husband to be able to focus on his family for a measly 1-2 hours a day. If this is too much or not enjoyable for him, why would he even grow his family past one child? Those kids need that interaction.

 

Now, if that’s ALL the family time you get in the day, I’d make it a meal and playtime and figure out the logistics of homeschooling while he’s working. If homeschooling a single six year old without help just NEVER works for you because you’re swamped with baby/toddler/preschool care, then homeschooling might not be the best option.

 

I know people CAN homeschool around those ages AND do it very very well, but it can’t really be an afterthought or something you never get to. You may only need one hour, even in 20 minute spurts, to cover everything now, but that time will only creep up and it has to come from somewhere in the day. I wouldn’t take it from family time either. Having healthy family relationships are key to happy homeschooling.

 

Is there even a time when the schooled child is awake and the others are sleeping? Early morning? Nap time? Staggered bedtimes? Can they be distracted with a cartoon for 15 minutes? You just need some quiet moments for direct math and reading instruction. All of the science, art, read alouds, and chores (I’m not kidding. Make “chores†a class and teach it step by step like you would math.) are more suitable for tagalong participation.

[SJ.]

Soooo....here we go. Dh is changing to the 2nd shift at work this quarter. This means he will get off work at midnight and home at 1. 2 if he and his friends workout which they do sometimes. I pretty much have always let him sleep until he is ready to wake up, but life is really really busy for me right now and I really need a few hours of help in the morning with school or playing with the littles while I do school. I would like him to help make his own lunch too. He has to leave for work at 1 in the afternoon, so is there a good fair time for me to expect him to be up and helping the family. He usually requires an hour of silence and a cup of coffee, a cigarette and time to waste on his phone and poop before he is willing to talk to any of us. So, if he fell asleep at 3 am and he would need to sleep until 11 to get 8 hours of sleep and it would be noon before he was functional and then it would be time to get ready to leave for work. I can't ask him because he will say to wake him when I need him, he will be fine. Well that would ideally be at 8 am and this just wouldn't be good. Realistically I would like him up at 9 or 10. So, what do you think is fair in this situation. If I just let him to do what is natural, he will have between 0 and 5 hours with us during his work week. I personally think he needs to come home and go to bed at 1:30 and only work out on the weekends, but I hate to ask him not too. Also, he always gets to sleep until he wakes up every weekend.

I haven't read any of the responses yet and see that there are many(!).

 

My dh has always worked shift work. It is hard for both him and me. I do think it is fair for your husband to get his 8 hours of sleep and to get exercise. Does it always have to be a long affair with friends? No. Sometimes you have to find other ways to get your daily exercise.

 

It is not easy to have to adjust your sleep schedule for work. I have worked shift work that rotated between days, swings, and mids. My dh has always done shift work. Usually 12 hour shifts that are either days or nights. I do not expect him to get less sleep to help me throughout the day. I do remember how hard it was when my DC were young. Even today there are many days where I feel like I don't get a break from the daily household tasks and homeschooling so I commiserate with you. I hope you and your husband can come up with some balance that works for all of you.

 

I forgot to mention, I do think it is a bit unreasonable to get 8 hours of sleep and then need 1hr+ to wake up when there are family responsibilities. Perhaps some days he can have his hour and other days you get that extra hour.

 

ETA:

I should have known better about posting a response without reading in such a lengthy thread.

I didn't realize you were pregnant with three young ones. No wonder you need help from your dh! Forgive me if any of this is redundant as I still have not finished the thread, it is long!

I would suggest:

- Doing the basics for school.

- Doing school on one weekend day so your dh is available and taking off of school on a weekday

- If you have a local library, take the school work there and use a study room so you are not interrupted.

- Every weekend take some time to do "errands" by yourself. Balance this time with things you have to do and things you want to do

- Find somewhere your dh can take the kids for a few hours so you can have some alone time at home.

- Cook bulk meals and eat lots of leftovers or start stocking the freezer if you need more variety. My family has had to get used to eating the same thing for dinner for half the week. They don't always like it but it helps keep me sane.

- Stop packing lunches. The most I would do is pack leftovers when I am putting away dinner.

 

Last, I see no harm in beginning Christmas break early. This Monday sounds perfect! You can still do little things like watch Magic School Bus and Sesame Street, but take a break and get some rest! 💕

Edited December 10, 2017 by SJ.

[QueenCat]

DH used to work 2nd and 3rd shifts. There is no way in hades that I'd want him to have his sleep disrupted, where he sleeps a few hours, get up, then goes back to sleep. He's safer when it comes to things like driving and other safety things if he gets 7-8 hours sleep (as are most people). I worked the family schedule around dh, as much as possible, and only woke him up for true emergencies during his 7-8 hours of sleep. Oh, he was also going to school full-time during most of that time, so he was gone about 15-16 hours/day, 5 days/week. On his days off, he did schoolwork about half the waking hours and contributed to the household happenings. Once he finished school, I got my breaks and he contributed far more to household and family/community things, like coaching the kids' sports teams, Scout leader, etc. It was well worth it for our family in the long run, as it increased his income about 350%, giving us a more secure future. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by QueenCat

[QueenCat]

For his lunches, either buy pre-made frozen lunches, like Lean Cuisine. Or if there is a cafeteria at work, have him do that. Dh buys at the cafeteria,  and then socializes there with co-workers. I'd guess he averages about $100 month there, for 4 days a week. Goes out one day a week. Not expensive, not much more than making lunches.

[QueenCat]

I just have to speak up, as a low-40-something married to a high-40-something (age): You young people who suggest that daddy time should come out of workout hours, you should know that you are giving very bad advice.

 

The people who are healthy - a healthy weight, non-diabetic, with normal blood pressure, and not having strokes and heart attacks in their forties and fifties - are NOT the people who sat in cars for long commutes and worked eleven hours and went to bed at 2 am with no exercise.

 

Family balance does not come from making adults feel selfish for exercising! This family has a dozen things to try before that.

 

Yes!!!! Health is extremely important and not something to save for years later.

[maize]

Agree that cutting out sleep or exercise for either spouse should be avoided at all costs.

 

Sometimes we get no choice, but if there is a choice there are many other things that could be given up first.

[Elizabeth86]

Yes, people's experiences vary.

 

I think yours is quite unusual. Perhaps you have unusually calm or compliant or not messy or needy children?

 

I found parenting one toddler exhausting--she was extremely clingy and needy and left me no time for household management.

 

Current baby is much the same actually, fortunately that oldest child is now a willing and competent helper!

 

My average day has always been much busier than my husband's, and my work is never done.

 

And no I do not have high standards for homemaking and meals. What I have is very intense children.

No kidding.