Depression and Suicide among College Students

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The topic of stress, depression, and suicide came up in another thread.  I thought it was worthy of its own discussion.

 

One thing that I don't hear discussed much among families of high school students is how many college students have a hard time and have to regroup.  Just among my group of friends and acquaintances, I know several students who failed out of their first year, had to take medical leave for a stress/exhaustion related chronic illness, or who had to take a break year to regroup mentally before returning to campus.  

 

I went to a high stress college.  Both of my older sons attend schools that can have a lot of stress associated with them.  I think both of their schools have better mental health and stress relief support systems than my school did.  My school is also much better now than it was back then.

 

One thing that impresses me a lot about the school where DS2 attends is how much work they do to make sure everyone has a net.  The RAs seem very well trained.  The duty RA on the weekend does food and an activity in the lounge (paid for by the dorm budget). There is a resident faculty couple who are actively involved with the students.  New Student Orientation was overtly organized to build friendships and networks among the dorm members (the dorm is more of a Harry Potter style house than an anonymous apartment building).  DS2 has mentioned that the folks living in the four rooms at the end of his hall make a real effort to support each other.  They bring one physics major dinner when he has evening observation events at the observatory. They did a multi day birthday prank on DS's roommate.  There is another group that goes to the gym across the street together on weekends to work out.  

 

DS1 also has networks, but they are different and are based mostly within his Corps of Cadets company.

 

I don't really have a question or a profound observation.  But I wanted to make a place to discuss college stress and failures, depression, mental health and suicide.

 

I thought this was a reasonably well sourced article, although I think the pressure to be perfect is not at all limited to highly selective schools.  Fear of missing out (FOMO) and a sense that everyone else has it more together and isn't struggling can happen on any campus.  Suicide on Campus and the Pressure of Perfection

[regentrude]

My friends in the counseling department at our school  are very concerned about the high rate of student reporting depression and suicidal thoughts. It is a real problem, not just at the top high pressure colleges.

 

My DD's school's counseling department has an unfortunate reputation. Students are afraid to go to counseling, because they fear that they may be hospitalized against their will and prevented from returning to school, and students in upper years advise the younger students to avoid the counseling center at all cost. Because of cases like these:

 

https://www.chicagomaroon.com/article/2014/11/4/those-who-fall-in-the-middle/

In March 2014, feeling alone and stressed, a first-year student who will remain nameless decided to visit Student Counseling Services, simply to “vent [her] feelings.†As she told me last night, she’s “never regretted a decision more.†The appointment seemed to run smoothly until she mentioned that she had the urge to cut and had suicidal thoughts. She made sure to explicitly state that these were urges and had no plans to harm herself in the future. Nonetheless, the professional deemed her mentally unfit to remain on campus and told her that she would have to be hospitalized. The psychiatrist prevented her from calling her parents, pressuring her to sign the medical release forms, saying “it would be easier†if she went voluntarily. Completely overwhelmed, she signed the form without truly processing what it meant. A few minutes later, medics arrived, strapped her down to a stretcher, and took her to a hospital miles away from campus. “I’ve never felt more violated,†she said. “I was treated like a criminally insane person, when all I wanted was somebody to talk to.â€

At the hospital, she was forced to relinquish all electronics and wasn’t allowed to contact anybody. She was completely isolated from the support of family and friends: “It was like jail. They took away my school work, my clothes, my phone and computer. They wouldn’t even let me have a stuffed animal.†Although she was eventually discharged, she wasn’t allowed back on campus—not even to retrieve personal belongings from her dorm. Once she was deemed fit to return, she was weeks behind on school work, making her stress increase tenfold. She describes the experience as “traumatic†and vows never to return to the counseling center. 

 

And that is not the only school where colleges fear for their reputation and try to kick mentally ill students out so they don't harm themselves on their watch.

. http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/14/how-colleges-flunk-mental-health-245492.html

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by regentrude

[8filltheheart]

Nm--my post didn't have anything to do with suicide and the severity of issues being discussed in this thread.

Edited November 28, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[8filltheheart]

Yikes, Regentrude, that is horrifying!!

[bettyandbob]

OP if I recall correctly, my dd and one of your ds's are at the same school. Her experience last year was bad. She is not in the corps. There were no special activities within the dorm set up by the RAs. There were a series of events in her dorm that were pretty disturbing and exacerbated the general level of stress, included a young woman in my dd's group of friends assaulted by a young man living in the dorm. (he was an international student. He was arrested, charged and deported). Several other terrible things happened. The first time an RA said anything to dd was in April. After several events in the dorm, apparently, the RAs were put on notice their jobs were in jeopardy. So, they started essentially taking role, not social, just check up to make sure they knew where everyone was. So one Friday in April after a week visiting relatives further south, I stopped to visit my dd and took her out to dinner. During dinner at about 6 pm the RA called dd to demand to know where she was. It was ridiculous. 

 

As far as dealing with the university mental health services, dd had friends who had experiences that were extremely unhelpful. What is the point of telling student in February, they are too unhealthy to reenroll in the fall, but they can finish the semester. So, mental health counselors are making a prediction about someone stability 8 months ahead, but still say go ahead and finish the next 3 months. Really illogical. Other students my dd knew were also not given help, but told to leave campus. My dd got the message don't seek help from the university. Considering events of a decade ago, the school ought to have developed a less clunkier, knee jerk approach to mental health by now. 

 

In May, I brought home a very fragile kid. I wasn't sure she'd go back to school. She was initially afraid to visit a counselor at home, thinking the university would find out (I explained HIPPAA). She saw a counselor at home in the summer. We spent  the summer reviewing a variety of options for school, housing, majors, long term goals. She did go back to school. She has a much better housing situation off campus and she worked on building relationships through a club she joined last year. Having seen her this week, I can say there's a complete turn around in her. Academically, she's doing great.

 

That turn around did not come from any university programs. The football team is doing well. 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Glad your dd is doing better.

[dereksurfs]

Sebastian,

 

Thank you for starting this as I really think it is due its own thread. There are so many things to consider when looking for a good fit for each student. I mentioned in the other thread that the 18-22 age seems especially sensitive to their environment. Possibly more so due to the fact that they are stepping out on their own for the first time discovering who they are in the world. Its a really transitionary time of life like no other. Even for kids with a healthy physiological profile it can be difficult. Its easy to imagine how much more difficult it is for those who have struggled during their teen years with various things emotionally like fitting in with a peer group, making friends, engaging with instructors, etc...

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My friends in the counseling department at our school  are very concerned about the high rate of student reporting depression and suicidal thoughts. It is a real problem, not just at the top high pressure colleges.

 

My DD's school's counseling department has an unfortunate reputation. Students are afraid to go to counseling, because they fear that they may be hospitalized against their will and prevented from returning to school, and students in upper years advise the younger students to avoid the counseling center at all cost. Because of cases like these:

 

https://www.chicagomaroon.com/article/2014/11/4/those-who-fall-in-the-middle/

 

And that is not the only school where colleges fear for their reputation and try to kick mentally ill students out so they don't harm themselves on their watch.

. http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/14/how-colleges-flunk-mental-health-245492.html

 

I don't even know what to say.  That is simply appalling. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

OP if I recall correctly, my dd and one of your ds's are at the same school. Her experience last year was bad. She is not in the corps. There were no special activities within the dorm set up by the RAs. There were a series of events in her dorm that were pretty disturbing and exacerbated the general level of stress, included a young woman in my dd's group of friends assaulted by a young man living in the dorm. (he was an international student. He was arrested, charged and deported). Several other terrible things happened. The first time an RA said anything to dd was in April. After several events in the dorm, apparently, the RAs were put on notice their jobs were in jeopardy. So, they started essentially taking role, not social, just check up to make sure they knew where everyone was. So one Friday in April after a week visiting relatives further south, I stopped to visit my dd and took her out to dinner. During dinner at about 6 pm the RA called dd to demand to know where she was. It was ridiculous. 

 

As far as dealing with the university mental health services, dd had friends who had experiences that were extremely unhelpful. What is the point of telling student in February, they are too unhealthy to reenroll in the fall, but they can finish the semester. So, mental health counselors are making a prediction about someone stability 8 months ahead, but still say go ahead and finish the next 3 months. Really illogical. Other students my dd knew were also not given help, but told to leave campus. My dd got the message don't seek help from the university. Considering events of a decade ago, the school ought to have developed a less clunkier, knee jerk approach to mental health by now. 

 

In May, I brought home a very fragile kid. I wasn't sure she'd go back to school. She was initially afraid to visit a counselor at home, thinking the university would find out (I explained HIPPAA). She saw a counselor at home in the summer. We spent  the summer reviewing a variety of options for school, housing, majors, long term goals. She did go back to school. She has a much better housing situation off campus and she worked on building relationships through a club she joined last year. Having seen her this week, I can say there's a complete turn around in her. Academically, she's doing great.

 

That turn around did not come from any university programs. The football team is doing well. 

 

DS1 is at Virginia Tech.  I think that there is quite a bit of difference in how Corps students network vs the general student body.  Alcohol and drug use is much less of an issue.  There is still some use (because any group of 20 somethings have some stupid members), but far less than in the civilian dorms.  I was on the general VT parents Facebook page for a couple days last year and could not believe the difference in what freshman parents were reporting.

 

And good for you for helping her find a counselor to talk to and explaining her rights as a patient.

[Laura Corin]

The counselling department at the university where I work is very careful to separate out suicidal thoughts from plans. Students don't seem afraid to go. Rather the opposite. A very large proportion see student services at some point.

 

Many more British people go to university than in my day, including many who get there after considerable counselling support at (high) school. So the intake just does include more people with issues.

[Hoggirl]

My niece flunked out of college (not a prestige school at all) her junior year of college. I have no idea what happened - whether it was too much academically, she had some outside stress or depression??? She lied about it for what would have been her entire senior year. Claimed to be enrolled, etc. About three weeks before she would have graduated she finally came clean and admitted she has not been in school all year long.

 

She was a student who would have greatly benefitted by a gap year. She was not particularly mature and did not have much of an idea of what she wanted to do. But, it was simply expected that she would go to college because that is what one does.

 

Here is the sad part of this story to me: after all this blew up, I suggested to mother-in-law that niece might benefit from talking to a counselor. It was really out of character for her to have lied, especially for an entire year! MIL immediately agreed that she needed to talk to a counselor - an ACADEMIC ADVISOR - to see how she could best get back on track as soon as possible! There was so little concern for her emotional well-being and so much SHAME put on her for having done this. Her parents (dh's sister and husband) were more supportive. However, I think a big problem is the pressure that can be put on young people to *succeed* based on someone else's definition of that word. I think the fear of disappointing parents can be a huge burden carried by young people. I'm not assigning blame on either side. It just makes me so sad that this delightful young woman felt she had no other choice but to lie for a year. Honestly, it could have been much worse.

 

We have local friends whose son threw himself off the fourth floor of a parking garage his freshman year of college. Remarkably, he survived. I have lost count of the number of surgeries. I think he broke every bone in his face.

 

I have no idea as to what the answers are, but the excerpt 8 posted is horrifying. We have to give young folks a safe place to talk without fear of being kicked out of school. Such extreme measures are clearly a CYA move on the part of the school.

 

Sorry I am so rambling. I don't really have a point, and I don't have a solution.

[dereksurfs]

Below are some sobering statistics regarding the scope and scale of this problem. It is very real and not something to be underestimated or swept under the rug. Though I agree that unfortunately universities are not always looking out for the best interest of the students. Many times there is CYA knee jerk response, as Cynthia mentioned. It's bad press when the numbers get out. I think the same thing happens with sexual assaults as well. Though they seem to at least be getting more attention these days. Mental health is another story. 

 

"According to the American College Health Association (ACHA) the suicide rate among young adults, ages 15-24, has tripled since the 1950s and suicide is currently the second most common cause of death among college students. These young people are often away from home and friends for the first time. They're living with strangers, far from their support systems, and working under intense pressure - with disrupted sleeping, eating and exercise patterns." -- College and Teen Suicide Statistics

 

Suicide facts and figures

·        Suicide is the second-leading cause of death among 20 to 24-year-olds.

·        More teenagers and young adults die from suicide than from all medical illnesses combined.

·        The suicide rate peaks among young adults (ages 20-24).

·        One in 12 U.S. college students makes a suicide plan.

·        Nearly 4,000 people age 15-24 die by suicide each year in the United States.

·        Every day, approximately 80 Americans take their own life and 1,500 more attempt to do so.

·        There are more than four male suicides for every female suicide, but twice as many females than males attempt suicide.

 

Depression facts and figures

·        Depression affects more than 19 million American adults 18 and older each year (nearly 10 percent of American adults).

·        More than 60 percent of people who die by suicide are estimated to suffer from major depression, with no other psychiatric or physical illness.

·        Clinical depression often first appears in adolescence

·        About 15 percent of the population develops clinical depression at some time in their lives.

·        The vast majority of young adults age 18 and older who are diagnosed with depression do not receive appropriate or any treatment.

·        Fewer than half of all Americans consider depression to be a health problem and more than two in five believe it is a sign of personal weakness.

 

-- National Data on Campus Suicide and Depression

Edited November 27, 2017 by dereksurfs

[Mabelen]

This hits close to home. I posted yesterday about a friend of my daughter’s from college. We had just heard that she killed herself a week ago. She was 21. She did 2 years at my daughter’s college, which was around 7-8 hour’s drive from home, then transferred to another college closer to her family. I don’t know the circumstances. Neither my daughter nor her friends were aware of any problems. Her family was, as far as we knew, loving and supportive. I can only speculate, it just breaks my heart.

[luuknam]

My experience is that at the counseling center, they ask if one of their (post?)grad students can do the counseling. They might be useful for some things... I don't know - I think it took only one session for us to mutually agree that I needed someone more qualified. IIRC, the head of the counseling department at A&M Corpus Christi was great, the head of the counseling department at UTD was good, and some experienced counselor at UNT was pretty good too (but they had a pretty crappy max number of counseling sessions per year).

 

Wrt the psychiatry department, I think all of them were doing their residencies, with no option to get an experienced psychiatrist. Some of them were better than others, and one was downright awful (diagnosed me with something everyone before and since then doesn't believe I have (and it's been over 6 years now, I guess), and called CPS on me as well, which CPS found to be unfounded because her story wasn't even possible in reality). Also, in case this makes it sound like a LOT of psychiatrists... residents tend to do only one year of residency on campus, so, yeah, that adds up, and leads to a whole lot of inconsistency in care (I saw the awful one for only a couple of months iirc, then after the CPS thing asked to be switched to someone else, so one month of that one, and then the year was up, so, next batch). Also, if there's a crisis, the residents tend to only work 1-2 days a week, so the other days would have you ending up with someone else. Long story short: if you can afford it at all, pay a private psychiatrist for consistency of care (and experience). 

 

Also, help your kid with the required paperwork for medical withdrawals if necessary, so that they don't lose their scholarship or end up on probation or w/e - if you're at the point of needing to withdraw for mental health reasons, you're almost certainly incapable of dealing with the paperwork yourself, and the university is not going to do it for you nor offer helpful help. And from some other people I've heard that there are things like tuition insurance that can cover medical withdrawals (including for mental health reasons), but I have no clue about that personally, I just thought I'd mention it in case it's helpful to someone. 

[luuknam]

N/m.

Edited November 27, 2017 by luuknam

[Corraleno]

My friends in the counseling department at our school  are very concerned about the high rate of student reporting depression and suicidal thoughts. It is a real problem, not just at the top high pressure colleges.

 

My DD's school's counseling department has an unfortunate reputation. Students are afraid to go to counseling, because they fear that they may be hospitalized against their will and prevented from returning to school, and students in upper years advise the younger students to avoid the counseling center at all cost. Because of cases like these:

 

https://www.chicagomaroon.com/article/2014/11/4/those-who-fall-in-the-middle/

 

And that is not the only school where colleges fear for their reputation and try to kick mentally ill students out so they don't harm themselves on their watch.

. http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/14/how-colleges-flunk-mental-health-245492.html

 

OMG that is absolutely horrific. Those poor kids!   :crying:

 

Suicide facts and figures

·        Suicide is the second-leading cause of death among 20 to 24-year-olds.

·        More teenagers and young adults die from suicide than from all medical illnesses combined.

·        The suicide rate peaks among young adults (ages 20-24).

·        One in 12 U.S. college students makes a suicide plan.

·        Nearly 4,000 people age 15-24 die by suicide each year in the United States.

·        Every day, approximately 80 Americans take their own life and 1,500 more attempt to do so.

·        There are more than four male suicides for every female suicide, but twice as many females than males attempt suicide.

 

 

The statistic in bold is really shocking to me. I know that depression is common among college students, but it's pretty common among kids that age in general and college adds the stresses of being away from home, away from friends and family, having to find new friends and fit in to a new social network, while also coping with increased academic pressures, etc. But the idea that one in 12 students is not just depressed, but suicidal to the point of actually making a plan is terrifying. One in 12!  :sad:

[dereksurfs]

 

OMG that is absolutely horrific. Those poor kids!   :crying:

 

  

The statistic in bold is really shocking to me. I know that depression is common among college students, but it's pretty common among kids that age in general and college adds the stresses of being away from home, away from friends and family, having to find new friends and fit in to a new social network, while also coping with increased academic pressures, etc. But the idea that one in 12 students is not just depressed, but suicidal to the point of actually making a plan is terrifying. One in 12!  :sad:

 

Yes, and when considered in light of the other statistics such as the 2nd leading cause of death for this age group, it is a very serious epidemic. The numbers indicate it is more serious than many other causes which folks more easily rally around like the 'war on drugs,' etc... Yet its like one of those taboo subjects or dirty little secrets that we're not talking about.

 

Mental illness including depression with suicidal ideations makes folks very uncomfortable. Because of this, society as a whole has a harder time grappling with it. Its not something like drugs where parents simply can tell kids to 'Just Say No.' Similarly, unlike a sports injury, one cannot just go to rehab with strangers and do fine after x treatments. It can take a very long time to trust someone enough to share those deepest, darkest thoughts and feelings. Those who suffer do so many times silently and cannot get over it after a few therapy sessions. Its both serious and very dangerous. I know from personal experience with a dear family member that it can be a life long battle. 

 

ETA: I strongly believe environment can play a significant role in these young peoples' lives and overall sense of well being. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by dereksurfs

[Mabelen]

You may want to read this article. Not specifically about college, but still.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/11/26/565744226/saving-lives-via-text-message?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2054

[creekland]

I'm a minute away from going to go be social (we are staying with others who just got up).

 

Can anyone find stats on non-college students of the same age to compare? They may be in one of the links, but I haven't had time to check.  I'd love to see them.

 

We're in an area where not so many even go to college and our local news talked about how the suicide rate among the younger generation is rising rapidly.  They didn't mention college students specifically.  I'm wondering if the increase is just "part of the trend" or not.

[plansrme]

I wonder how much of the rise in depression and suicide among teens and young adults is linked to the rise in screen time.  There was an article to this effect in The Atlantic recently (including a timeline--we all love timelines, right?--showing an intriguing link between the release of the first iphone and teen mental health), and the book Glow Kids addresses it, but all you have to do is Google "screen time and depression" or something similar to pull up scads of articles on this topic.

 

 

[freesia]

I wonder how much of the rise in depression and suicide among teens and young adults is linked to the rise in screen time. There was an article to this effect in The Atlantic recently (including a timeline--we all love timelines, right?--showing an intriguing link between the release of the first iphone and teen mental health), and the book Glow Kids addresses it, but all you have to do is Google "screen time and depression" or something similar to pull up scads of articles on this topic.

I believe it. Our older kids kids had had three hours of social screen time on school days for a while both were experiencing mental health challenges. Within two weeks of cutting it to one hour a day and none on Sunday, there was a remarkable and dramatic change in both of them.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm a minute away from going to go be social (we are staying with others who just got up).

 

Can anyone find stats on non-college students of the same age to compare? They may be in one of the links, but I haven't had time to check. I'd love to see them.

 

We're in an area where not so many even go to college and our local news talked about how the suicide rate among the younger generation is rising rapidly. They didn't mention college students specifically. I'm wondering if the increase is just "part of the trend" or not.

Good question. This report indicates rates among college students are lower than the general population.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sprc.org/sites/default/files/migrate/library/SuicideAmongCollegeStudentsInUS.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwixq5edjt_XAhUW2WMKHeJKA88QFgg2MAU&usg=AOvVaw1U3r4UHdga_yo5nfdC5Ncx

 

The comparison with non college students would be complicated. If someone is depressed in college and leaves them commits suicide how are they counted?

 

This had interesting points http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/perspectives-college-student-suicide

Edited November 27, 2017 by Sebastian (a lady)

[MysteryJen]

This is something I have worried about. As many of you know, my ds1 was diagnosed with bipolar 1 last spring. I can honestly say that he would be in a terrible situation if he had not gone to a very small, very supportive school. My own experience at a large state school was not awesome and for my non-athletes, I am dead serious about steering them to small schools.

 

My dd1 is at VT and it is a big school. She, however, is an athlete and has huge benefits from that, including advising, counseling if desired, easy access to medical care and the built-in support of her team. The perks of being an athlete help to make the time demands more palatable. Anyone who says that athletes at the D1 level are limited in hours by rule is either lying or hasn't seen it up close. She has struggling teammates and last year in the dorms, everyone had a much harder time. 

 

Also, I think more kids are coming with diagnoses and medications and struggle to manage their illnesses on their own.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

This was also interesting in part for the case study that showed how a student might be handled.

 

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/clinical-care-suicidal-college-student-when-and-how-involve-parents/page/0/1

[Sebastian (a lady)]

This is something I have worried about. As many of you know, my ds1 was diagnosed with bipolar 1 last spring. I can honestly say that he would be in a terrible situation if he had not gone to a very small, very supportive school. My own experience at a large state school was not awesome and for my non-athletes, I am dead serious about steering them to small schools.

 

My dd1 is at VT and it is a big school. She, however, is an athlete and has huge benefits from that, including advising, counseling if desired, easy access to medical care and the built-in support of her team. The perks of being an athlete help to make the time demands more palatable. Anyone who says that athletes at the D1 level are limited in hours by rule is either lying or hasn't seen it up close. She has struggling teammates and last year in the dorms, everyone had a much harder time. 

 

Also, I think more kids are coming with diagnoses and medications and struggle to manage their illnesses on their own.

 

Hugs, Jen.  

 

I don't remember the details that you might have shared when this was happening.  If you have anything particular you'd share as a lesson learned or resources you were thankful to have, I'm sure folks would appreciate it.

[JanetC]

 am dead serious about steering them to small schools.

 

 

Small schools can be just as awful as far as supporting students with mental illness.

 

[Lanny]

Sadly, I believe this begins in High School...  The middle child of one of my former colleagues in TX was in High School.  I think he was having trouble with his girlfriend and possibly wasn't going to graduate on time. One or the other or both...  Or a problem with one course.

 

They went out to eat one Sunday afternoon and when they got home, he was in their garage, dead.

 

I believe that my friend and his wife contemplated Suicide after that.

 

I have Severe P.T.S.D.   When I mentioned  what happened to my Psychologist, he told me that the hardest patients he tries to deal with are parents who've lost a child to suicide.

 

I remember,  a couple of years ago I think, , another Father here on WTM started a thread about the workload in High School. It really ramps up after Middle School and again after High School.  At that time, my DD was trying to keep up with the increased workload.  As I recall, that thread had quite of few responses.

 

Take one high school course in 2 semesters. In University, they do it in one semester. Twice the workload.

 

I lived in a city (Plano TX) where there was an epidemic of suicides in one of the high schools. That was years ago. Sadly, from time to time, I read about high schools were there are multiple suicides.

[Hoggirl]

Sadly, I believe this begins in High School... The middle child of one of my former colleagues in TX was in High School. I think he was having trouble with his girlfriend and possibly wasn't going to graduate on time. One or the other or both... Or a problem with one course.

 

They went out to eat one Sunday afternoon and when they got home, he was in their garage, dead.

 

I believe that my friend and his wife contemplated Suicide after that.

 

I have Severe P.T.S.D. When I mentioned what happened to my Psychologist, he told me that the hardest patients he tries to deal with are parents who've lost a child to suicide.

 

I remember, a couple of years ago I think, , another Father here on WTM started a thread about the workload in High School. It really ramps up after Middle School and again after High School. At that time, my DD was trying to keep up with the increased workload. As I recall, that thread had quite of few responses.

 

Take one high school course in 2 semesters. In University, they do it in one semester. Twice the workload.

 

I lived in a city (Plano TX) where there was an epidemic of suicides in one of the high schools. That was years ago. Sadly, from time to time, I read about high schools were there are multiple suicides.

When there are a certain number within a high school or area, they are referred to as "clusters." Palo Alto High School and, especially Gunn High School in Palo Alto have had ongoing issues with high school suicudes. You can Google and find multiple articles. CDC came into Gunn and studied a few years ago.

[Mabelen]

Sadly, I believe this begins in High School... The middle child of one of my former colleagues in TX was in High School. I think he was having trouble with his girlfriend and possibly wasn't going to graduate on time. One or the other or both... Or a problem with one course.

 

They went out to eat one Sunday afternoon and when they got home, he was in their garage, dead.

 

I believe that my friend and his wife contemplated Suicide after that.

 

I have Severe P.T.S.D. When I mentioned what happened to my Psychologist, he told me that the hardest patients he tries to deal with are parents who've lost a child to suicide.

 

I remember, a couple of years ago I think, , another Father here on WTM started a thread about the workload in High School. It really ramps up after Middle School and again after High School. At that time, my DD was trying to keep up with the increased workload. As I recall, that thread had quite of few responses.

 

Take one high school course in 2 semesters. In University, they do it in one semester. Twice the workload.

 

I lived in a city (Plano TX) where there was an epidemic of suicides in one of the high schools. That was years ago. Sadly, from time to time, I read about high schools were there are multiple suicides.

There is a current thread on College Confidential about a Chicago Tribune article regarding stress in high school.

 

https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2032323-tribune-article-hs-kids-are-stressed-out-time-for-culture-change-p1.html

[Mabelen]

Truthfully, I see a lot of parental pressure among certain social/ethnic groups in my area. The parents are successful professionals and expect their children to follow on their footsteps regardless of the kids' ability or inclination. The pressure reinforces itself when they socialize only or mostly with others like themselves. I can see how some my my younger daughter's friends feel the pressure and they are still in middle school! This is because middle school courses determine high school course placement.

[dereksurfs]

Truthfully, I see a lot of parental pressure among certain social/ethnic groups in my area. The parents are successful professionals and expect their children to follow on their footsteps regardless of the kids' ability or inclination. The pressure reinforces itself when they socialize only or mostly with others like themselves. I can see how some my my younger daughter's friends feel the pressure and they are still in middle school! This is because middle school courses determine high school course placement.

 

Yes, there are so many factors which can contribute toward it. That is why it would be very difficult to conduct research and conclude it is primary due to (x, y, z). Researchers can look for trends or clusters and perform more analysis like the CDC did in those cases. When looking at individual cases, the apparent reasons are span many things such as genetics/predisposition, peer group, dating relationships, pressure to perform, parent expectations, family environment, etc...

[luuknam]

When looking at individual cases, the apparent reasons are span many things such as genetics/predisposition, peer group, dating relationships, pressure to perform, parent expectations, family environment, etc...

 

 

bullying...

[GoodGrief]

I commented on the other thread on this topic having not noticed this thread first. As I have mentioned many times, our family has dealt extensively with this issue in the last couple years. My opinion is that genetics are at the foundation of most mental health issues, though these tendencies may remain dormant in the absence of triggering events. Academic pressure and homesickness could be triggering for some, along with the typical suspects, abuse and trauma.

 

I do not live in a high pressure sort of community, and mental health issues run rampant here among youth. Substance abuse in middle school is common. There have been multiple suicides at the local high schools, two in the last two months.

 

It’s VERY difficult to identify and receive appropriate care, even with insurance, even after a severe incident (like a suicide attempt that leads to a ventilator in the ICU...my daughter’s circumstance.This is particularly true if the youth is male. Those kids tend to be lost to our prison system (watched this personally with a friend’s son recently). Those struggling with their mental health are told to seek out “helpâ€, but...well, good luck with that. Especially in a small community, but it’s true in large cities too. We ended up paying out of pocket once we finally identified effective care for my daughter. Not everyone has those resources (money AND someone to seek out care providers. The search can be beyond what a person in crisis can manage. And youth may not know where to look.)

 

It’s not super shocking to me that college suicide rates are high; I suspect some affected kids hold on thinking they will feel better once they are away from home...then they don’t.

 

I also have a theory that we have done ourselves no favors with the strong anti-smoking campaigns. My opinion is that many self-medicated for depression with tobacco. We haven’t made alternatives readily available, perhaps having not recognized the connection.

[dereksurfs]

bullying...

 

Yes, and of course this includes Cyber Bullying, rape, hazing, rejection from certain 'dream' schools, parental financial problems/loss of job, divorce, a major move to a place with different weather patterns causing SAD and the list goes on and on...

Edited November 27, 2017 by dereksurfs

[luuknam]

It’s not super shocking to me that college suicide rates are high; I suspect some affected kids hold on thinking they will feel better once they are away from home...then they don’t.

 

I also have a theory that we have done ourselves no favors with the strong anti-smoking campaigns. My opinion is that many self-medicated for depression with tobacco. We haven’t made alternatives readily available, perhaps having not recognized the connection.

 

 

Agreed with the bolded. I seriously doubt tobacco solves depression - if it did, the nicotine chewing gum companies would probably have tried to study that and get it approved for that. 

 

I do think certain medications are underprescribed, at least by certain doctors. I do get that it's complicated though... but for example, klonopin has made such a huge difference for me... I know it has downsides, especially when used long-term, but I think it was about the 10th psychiatrist (see PP for why there were that many psychiatrists) that finally decided to give it a try (I never asked for it, because of fear that I'd be labeled as "drug-seeking"). And likewise, I sometimes see signs next to the road with "opioids kill" or some such... but they might have saved my life (I had some left over from a surgery several years back, so I occasionally (as in, maybe twice a year on average) have taken half of one when I'm about at the point of killing myself, and wow, I actually feel more or less normal then (not high... I don't feel like life is great or w/e, but life just isn't complete shit). Not that I think psychiatrists should prescribe opiates for depression... if they started doing that, it'd probably do more harm than good overall. But sometimes it's helpful to be able to remind yourself that it's possible to feel not rock bottom depressed). 

Edited November 27, 2017 by luuknam

[luuknam]

Yes, and of course this includes Cyber Bullying, rape, rejection from certain 'dream' schools, parental financial problems/loss of job, divorce, a major move to a place with different weather patterns causing SAD and the list goes on and on...

 

 

It wasn't meant as a criticism. But unlike, say, rejection from a dream school (normal people don't kill themselves over that*), long-term (as in many years) bullying is going to cause mental issues in just about anyone, and bullying is and has been quite common in schools. 

 

*ETA: by that I mean that it can be the trigger, but I'm pretty sure that there are other issues already going on as well. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by luuknam

[dereksurfs]

It wasn't meant as a criticism. But unlike, say, rejection from a dream school (normal people don't kill themselves over that), long-term (as in many years) bullying is going to cause mental issues in just about anyone, and bullying is and has been quite common in schools. 

 

Yes, definitely. I didn't take it that way since I know bullying is especially hurtful during this life stage. There are many documentation cases where young kids took their lives because of some form of bullying. I added the rest simply to say there many, many triggers. It doesn't take long for me to think of more including 'loss of a loved one' which wasn't mentioned. That's also why its hard for those studying depression and suicide to come up with any kind of definitive conclusion as to 'the' cause. Though there are definite known contributors especially if one has a predisposition toward it.

Edited November 28, 2017 by dereksurfs

[creekland]

Good question. This report indicates rates among college students are lower than the general population.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sprc.org/sites/default/files/migrate/library/SuicideAmongCollegeStudentsInUS.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwixq5edjt_XAhUW2WMKHeJKA88QFgg2MAU&usg=AOvVaw1U3r4UHdga_yo5nfdC5Ncx

 

The comparison with non college students would be complicated. If someone is depressed in college and leaves them commits suicide how are they counted?

 

This had interesting points http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/perspectives-college-student-suicide

 

I thought I had heard that college suicide percentages were a bit lower than the general population for the same age, but I wasn't sure.  I was remembering from a discussion a few years back after a Cornell cluster.  Thanks for looking it up for me.  It's good to keep risk in perspective.  It's there, but it's there everywhere, and generally less on campuses.  Nonetheless, it's always good for parents and friends to be paying attention.

 

That was a very good article to read.  I wish they would let us read Page 2 without a subscription (sigh).

 

This part seems to be extra true from what I've seen IRL - mostly high school, but also via my boys and stories they relate from college: (bold and underlining mine)

 

Loneliness, and especially social hopelessness, is an additional risk factor. Social hopelessness refers to a negative cognitive style about relationships, including fears of never fitting in or finding intimacy. In college students, this better distinguishes those at risk for suicide than does a focus on general hopelessness.8 The American Freshman: National Norms Fall 2014 survey found freshmen arrive at college with less experience socializing in person and more time spent online with social media. How this might affect mental health remains to be seen.

Edited November 27, 2017 by creekland

[Arcadia]

That was a very good article to read. I wish they would let us read Page 2 without a subscription (sigh).

The rest of the article is posted on another website

https://nndc.org/perspectives-on-college-student-suicide/

[Granny_Weatherwax]

<snip>

 

Loneliness, and especially social hopelessness, is an additional risk factor. Social hopelessness refers to a negative cognitive style about relationships, including fears of never fitting in or finding intimacy. In college students, this better distinguishes those at risk for suicide than does a focus on general hopelessness.8 The American Freshman: National Norms Fall 2014 survey found freshmen arrive at college with less experience socializing in person and more time spent online with social media. How this might affect mental health remains to be seen.

Considering my current circumstances, I don't know what to say about this except...my heart is breaking.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

 

That was a very good article to read.  I wish they would let us read Page 2 without a subscription (sigh).

 

 

 

 

The rest of the article is posted on another website

https://nndc.org/perspectives-on-college-student-suicide/

 

I was able to read the 2nd page and other articles on my phone.  As long as I kept my finger on the screen, gently scrolling, it didn't flip over to the subscription login.

[creekland]

Considering my current circumstances, I don't know what to say about this except...my heart is breaking.

 

Same here - and I sent you more thoughts via pm.

 

To others reading... FIT can mean a lot.  I think many students really, really need to be able to find their group at their college.  Loneliness is super real.  FIT can be worth paying for (and as many have said, that "fit" doesn't always correlate with cheapest or most expensive).

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Same here - and I sent you more thoughts via pm.

 

To others reading... FIT can mean a lot.  I think many students really, really need to be able to find their group at their college.  Loneliness is super real.  FIT can be worth paying for (and as many have said, that "fit" doesn't always correlate with cheapest or most expensive).

This. This. A thousand times this.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Considering my current circumstances, I don't know what to say about this except...my heart is breaking.

 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Arcadia]

 I lived in a city (Plano TX) where there was an epidemic of suicides in one of the high schools. That was years ago. Sadly, from time to time, I read about high schools were there are multiple suicides.

  

When there are a certain number within a high school or area, they are referred to as "clusters." Palo Alto High School and, especially Gunn High School in Palo Alto have had ongoing issues with high school suicudes. You can Google and find multiple articles. CDC came into Gunn and studied a few years ago.

From the 214 pages CDC report on Santa Clara County which the City of Palo Alto is part of.

 

“Among youth suicide decedents with known precipitating circumstances and who were residents of Palo Alto and died in Santa Clara County from 2003−2015, twenty-five percent or more had the following reported precipitating circumstances: current mental health problems, current depressed mood, current treatment for mental illness, a history of treatment for mental problems, a history of suicide attempt, had left a suicide note, had disclosed suicide intention, had a recent crisis, and school problems.

...

Qualitative review of medical examiner report narratives indicated that several youth suicide decedents that were residents of Palo Alto and died in Santa Clara County from 2003−2015 were noted as having severe mental health problems, including schizophrenia and psychosis (including auditory hallucinations), and chronic and severe depression. Furthermore, among those who had made previous suicide attempts, several youth suicide decedents who were residents of Palo Alto and died in Santa Clara County from 2003−2015 had attempted suicide multiple times and/or had been admitted multiple times to the hospital for suicidal behaviors. Finally, several youth suicide decedents who were residents of Palo Alto and died in Santa Clara County from 2003−2015 were living in residential mental health facilities or half-way houses at the time of death.

...

School problems were identified in twenty-five percent or more of youth suicide decedents with known precipitating circumstances and who were residents of Palo Alto and died in Santa Clara County from 2003−2015 (Table 19). These problems were largely indicated in medical examiner reports as possibly related to deteriorating mental health or other personal problems (e.g., intimate partner problems like a break-up). This included slipping grades, multiple tardy slips at school, and taking a leave of absence or being suspended from school. For several decedents, these school related problems appeared to co-occur with other mental health issues, previous suicidal behavior, depression, or drug/alcohol use.

...

Additional qualitative review of medical examiner report narratives indicated that among youth suicide decedents who were residents of Palo Alto, died in Santa Clara County, and were also living in residential mental health treatment facilities at the time of their death, train was a commonly used method of suicide. Several of the residential mental health treatment facilities were in close proximity (within 1–2 miles) of the train line where the suicide occurred. Reported precipitating factors for these youth included severe mental health problems, including schizophrenia and auditory hallucinations, and social isolation (e.g., did not feel they had friends, did not feel they had anyone to listen to them).

...

A total of 2683 high school students from Palo Alto Unified School District took the Developmental Assets survey in 2010. Students were distributed across four grade levels: ninth (29.6%, n=792), tenth (24.6%, n=658), eleventh (26.6%, n=712), and twelfth (19.3%, n=518). Roughly half of respondents were female (51.0%, n=1355), and under half were male (49.0%, n=1303). Finally, 8.2% (n=219) of students that participated in the survey indicated that they had made at least one suicide attempt in their lifetime. No information was included on race/ethnicity of the students participating in the survey.â€

https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/hi/hd/epi-aid/Documents/epi-aid-report.pdf

[Nan in Mass]

We have high strung children (no surprise - two really high strung people are highly likely to produce high strung offspring), so this is something we have thought about a lot.  I, personally, have some experience with this, as well.  We did some things to try to make suicide less likely.  We were pretty resigned to our children being depressed in college.  We considered that fairly inevitable.  Please keep those things in mind when you read my list of what we did to try to prevent suicide.

 

We were realistic about our children's abilities.

We told our children our "realistic" expectations for them.  (We said things like, "Because of the way you are wired, you are probably going to have to spend twice the amount of time your friends spend on homework just to get C's.  That is ok.  Just do it and get through.")

We told our children about our less-than-wonderful college experiences (as well as the wonderful ones) and said that college was a pretty awful time of life - that being grownup was way way better.

We told our children that we expected them to work hard at school, but that there are may things in life more important than schoolwork so don't neglect the other opportunities.

We told our children that they could live with us forever, that we thought they would eventually want to live someplace else, but we would be perfectly happy if they didn't.  (They believed us because we lived with my parents after we were married for a bit.)

We decoupled college graduation from leaving beloved home and family.  If we hadn't, there is no way two of ours would have graduated.  Our children aren't stupid.  They knew that graduation is often when leaving home for good happens.

We told our children it was ok to get help - help with the academics, help with managing other daily things like laundry, help with social situations.

We told our children where to go for help, made sure they knew about whatever mental health services existed, and made sure the mental health services knew our children existed.

We warned our children not to tell anyone in the medical profession that they thought about suicide or self-harm unless they were willing to be whisked off and hospitalized.  We told them there might be a time when that was the appropriate response, but there were in-between states in which it would be appropriate to call us to come get them immediately and let us deal with things at home, where we could be sure no one would over-react.

We told our children that we didn't have the money for colleges that required airplanes to get to.

We told our children that if they were within easy driving distance, we could come take them out to dinner if they were feeling lonely or needed help.

We made sure our children understood fight, flight, or freeze under pressure, and warned them that they were most likely to freeze under academic pressure.

We made sure our children knew what freezing felt like (unable to sit down and do the work), and that it was ok to get someone else to help them to unfreeze (sit next to them until they were involved in the assignment enough that they weren't stressed and frozen anymore).  "Can you just sit with me and help me get started on this assignment?  I'm so stressed about it that I can't think."

We made sure we discouraged our children from entering any program to which we thought they were unsuited.

We talked about ways to escape (reading, drugs, alcohol, excersize, videogames, social media, ...) and how you have to recognize when you are escaping and make sure it isn't at a critical time, like finals.

We made sure they understood how much work getting through finals week and a few other perfect storm weeks actually is, and how you probably can't do anything but eat, sleep a tiny bit, and focus on school work during those times.

We made sure they understood the connection between their bodies and their minds, and told them to watch their nutrition, excersize, sunlight, social contact.

We made sure they understood that making friends was important, and understood where to go to make friends, and made sure they didn't go to schools where they would have to work at the academics so hard that they would have no time to make friends.

We told them to wash their hands often, take a multivitamin, and get a flu shot, because getting sick gets you behind in your schoolwork, which makes you unable to take the time to do the things that help battle depression, which leads to a downward spiral.  All because of a cold.

We got them a small meal plan, even when they were living off campus.

We paid for off campus housing  if they thought they would be better off out of the dorms.

We paid for an off campus gym if they thought they would be better off excersizing off campus.

We dropped everything to talk to them when they called, knowing it might be important but they might not be able to tell us it was.

We tried to make sure they had something that was totally unrelated to school to look forward to (like a day of skiing), and we told them it would happen no matter what happened with school.

We tried to make their vacations peaceful and fun.  We told them their main job on vacation was to sleep and eat enough that they could survive another semester.

We warned them that girlfriends (or boyfriends) could wreak havoc with their school work, but that it might be worth it.

We were accepting of their friends.

We tried not to be critical of their life choices.  (And tried to remember that they weren't necessarily permanent, when we were less than thrilled about them.)

We told them when we thought they were doing something dangerous, but didn't tell them not to do it.  We talked about risks.

We talked about how to assess a risk, and tried to discourage over-reacting to low level risks.

We tried to help them be cheerful and optimistic about the future.

We tried to discourage perfectionism and encourage a good-enough attitude.

We tried to make being grown up look like it was better than being a teenager.

We encouraged them to try new things and find new, adult hobbies.

We encouraged them to learn things that made them happy (like playing the guitar).

We told them it was ok if it took them more than 4 years to graduate.

We told them we loved them no matter what, over and over, and we really meant it.

 

We weren't successful all the time.  We had children who were trying hard to be independent or we might have had to take a different approach. These things won't necessarily work for your family, but maybe something in all that will help someone.

 

When I was a freshman in college, both my roommate's and my best friend's parents got divorced and their mothers had to move to a new home.  They went home at Christmas to a new house and no Dad.  Although it seemed like good timing to the parents - child is now 18 and out of the house - in some ways, it couldn't possibly have been worse.  I think sometimes depression has nothing to do with the student and everything to do with other people.

 

I have always said that the big challenge with teenagers was getting them to want to be a grownup.  It can look pretty awful, especially if it involves leaving everything you love - home, family, pets, childhood friends.  I think the wonder is that so many do survive, survive and thrive, even.

 

Lots of hugs,

Nan

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Thanks for the list, Nan. Your children are fortunate to have such thoughtful, caring parents, not to mention wise.   :grouphug:

[Bootsie]

This issue is on the cover of my university's school newspaper this week.  I don't know whether the rate of depression and suicide has increased recently, but the awareness level and the amount that it is being talked about has definitely increased.  I have had more conversations with student life about students at risk in the past 18 months than I probably have had in the previous 30 years of being a college professor.  I have even had 3 students this semester who have contacted me that they will be missing class because of a mental health crisis of a roommate that they are taking to seek help; I don't remember ever being contacted like that before.

[luuknam]

Btw, I haven't ever had a mental health professional freak out over the suicide thing. In my experience it's an item on the intake questionnaire, or otherwise a question they ask, so, if you tell your kids to not tell mental health professionals, you're basically telling them they should lie - you might want to give them a heads up on that, since some people are very uncomfortable with lying. In my experience, saying "yes, I've thought about suicide" leads to follow-up questions, about how often you think about it, if you've made plans, what you do when you feel like that (as in, do you have someone to go to or w/e), etc yada yada yada. They just don't seem to be that bothered about it if you say you think about it multiple times a day and have a very effective and easy to implement method in mind, so long as you also say that when you feel like acting on that you go and tell your spouse (I got married at 20 - I'm sure they'd be fine with plenty of other answers as well). And then, after a few years, I could add "and I've had these thoughts for x years and still haven't done anything and I don't see how things are different now" tends to really make it a non-issue. I mean, they still don't like it, but at that point it becomes more of an annoying OCD-ish kind of thing that really should be gotten under control than a mental health emergency (btw, in case anyone is wondering, it's really gotten better in the last few years... like I said, I've gone through time periods where this was a multiple times a day kind of thought, to times when I might not even think about it for weeks or maybe even months). 

 

That said, like I mentioned above, I haven't really dealt with newbie psychologists... I would suspect that they might be more likely to freak out.

 

As a side note, those black box warnings on some antidepressants are there for a reason. I took Paxil for a couple of weeks when I was in my mid-20s (well after black-box age), and I got suicidal thoughts that were different from 'my' suicidal thoughts. That was disturbing, and I obviously discontinued the medication. I've never had that with any other antidepressants or w/e. Before that experience I assumed that the increase in suicides after starting an antidepressant was increased ability to get out of bed and actually get it done, or feeling like it just isn't working so it's all pointless, and I still think those are probably factors, but anyway... I think it's important that there's someone you can call or go to at any time of day when first starting a med like that, for aforementioned reason.

[8filltheheart]

 

As a side note, those black box warnings on some antidepressants are there for a reason. I took Paxil for a couple of weeks when I was in my mid-20s (well after black-box age), and I got suicidal thoughts that were different from 'my' suicidal thoughts. That was disturbing, and I obviously discontinued the medication. I've never had that with any other antidepressants or w/e. Before that experience I assumed that the increase in suicides after starting an antidepressant was increased ability to get out of bed and actually get it done, or feeling like it just isn't working so it's all pointless, and I still think those are probably factors, but anyway... I think it's important that there's someone you can call or go to at any time of day when first starting a med like that, for aforementioned reason.

 

My ds was on several different med trials for his anxiety.  Oh my word, one had him curled up in a fetal position carving on his arm.  Another made him incredibly depressed.  Etc.  He refuses to take any meds now bc he says he would rather feel like him than the way the meds made him feel.

 

I cannot imagine what might have happened to him if we hadn't been monitoring him and keeping a daily log of responses.