What the deal with dogs and shopping?

[Miss Peregrine]

You can't have a well-behaved dog if you are not allowed to take it anywhere. It is not entitlement; it is a training fact.

 

Entitlement is changing a diaper on the table next to me in the restaurant as my dog sits quietly on her mat. Entitlement is letting your kids roam free in a store where they enjoy tripping older customers on purpose. Entitlement is paying no attention to the ongoing screaming of your own child and causing true agony to all hearing aid wearers.

 

Entitlement, quite simply, is a title given to any side you want no part of. How dare they, we judge. Why is it never an introspection of "how dare I?"

Anywhere? I need to pick out produce with Fifi next to me? Nope.

[creekland]

Bouncing off this post -

 

My cousin works for a NJ guide dog school called The Seeing Eye. She doesn't train the dogs, but fosters, raises and socializes the puppies. She posts photos on facebook of places she takes the puppies (it's part of her job to post), which includes schools, festivals/fairs, stores, etc. Once they're old enough to train she turns them over to the trainer. Keep in mind when you see a working dog that they didn't learn how to behave out in public without actually being taken out in public. They don't always wear something that shows they're being trained, so I'm sure there are people who give her the side-eye for having a dog some place "where it doesn't belong".

'

 

That's strange.  We have folks around here who socialize puppies too and those puppies have vests they wear saying "Guide Dog in Training" (or something similar if my mind isn't 100% accurate).  I was told they MUST wear the vests when they are out in public, esp since it helps them stop the public from wanting to pet the puppy and other things the youngsters have to learn.  I'm guessing it's for a different organization, but I have to admit, I prefer the "Must Wear" rule.  I expect your cousin would get a lot less stink eye if she adopted the rule even if it isn't required by her organization.

[bethben]

I guess I wish store owners would make clear their animal policies. Clearly state in the outside door if animals are allowed or “service dogs onlyâ€. I don’t want the people who genuinely need them for those hidden disabilities like diabetes or seizure disorders being forced to carry and show service dog cards because so

many people abused the system.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SparklyUnicorn]

I guess I wish store owners would make clear their animal policies. Clearly state in the outside door if animals are allowed or “service dogs onlyâ€. I don’t want the people who genuinely need them for those hidden disabilities like diabetes or seizure disorders being forced to carry and show service dog cards because so

many people abused the system.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I see those signs posted everywhere (no pets other than service animals).

[Miss Peregrine]

I see those signs posted everywhere (no pets other than service animals).

Yep. They are ignored.

[Catwoman]

My little Chi mix was once *patted down* by the TSA. True story.

That happened to my cat! Usually the TSA people just wanted to pet him, but this one particularly overzealous TSA guy had me carry my cat through the metal detector thingie as usual, but then said he would have to pat down the cat. I have a feeling the guy must have been new, because the woman who was working with him said, "Oh for God's sake, she's fine, and so is the cat." And she looked at me and said, "I'm sorry about this. Just go." :lol:

 

I guess the cat had a suspicious look about him or something. He did always wear a little camo vest instead of a regular harness for his leash. Maybe the TSA guy figured he was one of those Rambo type cats...

[Catwoman]

You can't have a well-behaved dog if you are not allowed to take it anywhere. It is not entitlement; it is a training fact.

 

Entitlement is changing a diaper on the table next to me in the restaurant as my dog sits quietly on her mat. Entitlement is letting your kids roam free in a store where they enjoy tripping older customers on purpose. Entitlement is paying no attention to the ongoing screaming of your own child and causing true agony to all hearing aid wearers.

 

Entitlement, quite simply, is a title given to any side you want no part of. How dare they, we judge. Why is it never an introspection of "how dare I?"

No one has said you can't take your dog "anywhere."

 

People are saying they don't think you should be able to take your dog "everywhere."

 

There's a huge difference there.

 

Our dogs were always very happy and well-behaved, and we never once took them to the mall or into a restaurant with us. They didn't need to go "everywhere" in order to be properly trained and socialized.

 

And who is defending the kind of parents you complained about in your post? They're absolutely acting entitled, too, just like the dog owners who disobey the law by bringing their fake service dogs into stores and restaurants.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Catwoman

[SparklyUnicorn]

That happened to my cat! Usually the TSA people just wanted to pet him, but this one particularly overzealous TSA guy had me carry my cat through the metal detector thingie as usual, but then said he would have to pat down the cat. I have a feeling the guy must have been new, because the woman who was working with him said, "Oh for God's sake, she's fine, and so is the cat." And she looked at me and said, "I'm sorry about this. Just go." :lol:

 

I guess the cat had a suspicious look about him or something. He did always wear a little camo vest instead of a regular harness for his leash. Maybe the TSA guy figured he was one of those Rambo type cats...

 

LMAO...trying to imagine a cat pat down...LOL

[stephanier.1765]

That happened to my cat! Usually the TSA people just wanted to pet him, but this one particularly overzealous TSA guy had me carry my cat through the metal detector thingie as usual, but then said he would have to pat down the cat. I have a feeling the guy must have been new, because the woman who was working with him said, "Oh for God's sake, she's fine, and so is the cat." And she looked at me and said, "I'm sorry about this. Just go." :lol:

 

I guess the cat had a suspicious look about him or something. He did always wear a little camo vest instead of a regular harness for his leash. Maybe the TSA guy figured he was one of those Rambo type cats...

 

I'd dare somebody to try and pat down my cat. They'd might just lose a limb or two. He's huge, he's fast and has claws the size of scimitars. I know, I'm the one who grooms him.  :scared:

[Catwoman]

LMAO...trying to imagine a cat pat down...LOL

  

I'd dare somebody to try and pat down my cat. They'd might just lose a limb or two. He's huge, he's fast and has claws the size of scimitars. I know, I'm the one who grooms him.  :scared:

Our cat was an experienced traveler so it took a lot to faze him! :lol: The TSA people were always surprised at how calm he was when I took him out of his carrier. He feared no one. One TSA guy seemed pretty worried about it and he said, "We get a lot of runners." :laugh: Apparently, they spent quite a bit of time chasing down escaped pets.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't hate dogs.  But I am afraid of dogs.  If in fact a particular business allowed dogs, I could simply avoid the place if I am worried about it.  But that's not what ppl are talking about. They are talking about dogs in areas where they are not allowed.  What exactly is there to defend in that case? 

 

There is a guy at the CC who has a dog (he is not in my class, but he walks by every time I'm waiting for my class).  What I don't understand is how out of control his dog is.  He holds that dog for all he is worth as he walks down the hall as the dog lunges at and sniffs everything.  That doesn't strike me as a legit service dog.  I would expect them to be trained to ignore a lot of stuff.

[Lady Florida.]

That's strange.  We have folks around here who socialize puppies too and those puppies have vests they wear saying "Guide Dog in Training" (or something similar if my mind isn't 100% accurate).  I was told they MUST wear the vests when they are out in public, esp since it helps them stop the public from wanting to pet the puppy and other things the youngsters have to learn.  I'm guessing it's for a different organization, but I have to admit, I prefer the "Must Wear" rule.  I expect your cousin would get a lot less stink eye if she adopted the rule even if it isn't required by her organization.

 

She is visually impaired though she doesn't need a guide dog herself, and has been doing this for many, many years. She isn't "not following rules". These puppies are not a "guide dog in training". The puppies are being socialized, not trained as service dogs, and while they often do wear a scarf or vest, they don't always. It's part of the socialization process to be out in public without being recognized for what they are. She needs to get permission from merchants or public venues to bring the puppy to their store or whatever, which she of course does. It's the general public who give her dirty looks, even though they have no idea that what she's doing is allowed.

[Catwoman]

Obviously this is a touchy subject for me. :) My tendency is to want to be combative, but I'll try to explain instead.

 

I think the judgment in threads like this is what gets to me. I don't mind people who politely admit a personal prejudice against dogs being treated like people, as one poster did here. I don't mind people who object to selfish people not wanting to follow rules--I object to that, too. I don't mind people being upset about uncontrolled dogs, or fake service dogs, or dogs whose people don't clean up after them.

 

I do mind the snide attitude towards people who love dogs and treat them as family members. I do baby my dogs. They fill a need in my life and hopefully I fill needs in theirs. They may not be human beings, but those who actually know dogs know they are without a doubt their own little

"people" with their own little souls.

 

I've carried a dog in a sling. We were on vacation, walking in crowded places, and it was convenient. He was happy and I was happy. If I'm not breaking any rules, why should it bother anyone else?

 

The older I get, the more I realize how much we have in common with other living beings. Have a little care, show a little respect. That's all. :)

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

Our pets have always been family members. We never say things like, "Oh, that's just a dog," or "It's only a cat," because in our minds, our animals are actual family members. We worry about them and will do anything to save them if they get sick or injured. We buy them special treats and toys and presents and nice beds.

 

Loving your pets like they were furry little people seems totally normal to me. But that doesn't mean I feel that I'm entitled to break the law and bring them everywhere I go, just because I feel like doing that. Also, a lot of public places aren't safe for many pets -- the pets can get stepped on, be grabbed by rude children, be petted by people when they don't feel like being petted. A lot of the dogs I see out in the stores seem uncomfortable being there. Not all of the dogs are having a great time.

 

I have always loved my pets, but I also respect that stores and restaurants were intended for people, and that some people have allergies and other people have a fear of animals, so I think it's more important for me to respect that. My friend's dd is allergic to dogs and she also has asthma. Would it really be worth it to anyone here to have their dog cause this little girl to have a severe asthma attack just because you felt like bringing your dog into Toys-R-Us with you? (And again, I say this as someone who loves animals.)

[hornblower]

 They are talking about dogs in areas where they are not allowed.  What exactly is there to defend in that case? 

 

well, part of it  is that just because something is a rule right now doesn't mean it should be a rule. Many people disagree with what is allowed now and so I guess this is their way of demonstrating their disagreement with the law. 

 

Different parts of the world have different ideas about where dogs are allowed & many people disagree with the current laws in some areas; and while some work within the system to change rules, others just violate the rules.  This is pretty much how all rules and laws and societal norms get challenged and changed. 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

well, part of it  is that just because something is a rule right now doesn't mean it should be a rule. Many people disagree with what is allowed now and so I guess this is their way of demonstrating their disagreement with the law. 

 

Different parts of the world have different ideas about where dogs are allowed & many people disagree with the current laws in some areas; and while some work within the system to change rules, others just violate the rules.  This is pretty much how all rules and laws and societal norms get challenged and changed. 

 

 

I hear you.  I just wouldn't personally defend allowing dogs in most public places like stores or restaurants (I'm ok with them being outdoors at restaurants).  I think it's too problematic. 

[Catwoman]

well, part of it is that just because something is a rule right now doesn't mean it should be a rule. Many people disagree with what is allowed now and so I guess this is their way of demonstrating their disagreement with the law.

 

Different parts of the world have different ideas about where dogs are allowed & many people disagree with the current laws in some areas; and while some work within the system to change rules, others just violate the rules. This is pretty much how all rules and laws and societal norms get challenged and changed.

 

Aside from the obvious problems like people who have allergies or who fear dogs, I think the problem is that for every responsible dog owner with a well-behaved dog, there may be another with a poorly trained and/or out of control dog. I love dogs, but I don't love aggressive or jumpy dogs, or dogs that aren't housebroken but whose owners still somehow think should be allowed in the grocery store.

 

Fortunately, where we live, it's not a big problem. From what I'm reading here, though, that's not the case everywhere. Personally, I pet every dog and cat that I'm allowed to pet, so it's not a big deal to me if I see someone in Target with an animal, but I realize that a lot of people are uncomfortable with it, so if the law (and the sign on the door!) says "no pets," I think people need to abide by those rules.

 

(Edited for typo!)

Edited November 13, 2017 by Catwoman

[creekland]

She is visually impaired though she doesn't need a guide dog herself, and has been doing this for many, many years. She isn't "not following rules". These puppies are not a "guide dog in training". The puppies are being socialized, not trained as service dogs, and while they often do wear a scarf or vest, they don't always. It's part of the socialization process to be out in public without being recognized for what they are. She needs to get permission from merchants or public venues to bring the puppy to their store or whatever, which she of course does. It's the general public who give her dirty looks, even though they have no idea that what she's doing is allowed.

 

I was never implying that she's not following rules for the organization she works with, only that it must be a different organization than those used around here as it's kids/families here who have told me their "puppy socialization" rules when they go out in public.  These puppies are raised for a year in families, traveling with them when ready, etc, then those that pass whatever test it is they need to pass go on to get trained as Guide Dogs.  Those that don't pass - the family that raises them gets first dibs on adoption.  There was also a gal at school who helped train future military dogs.  She's off doing it for real now as a career.

[Lady Florida.]

I was never implying that she's not following rules for the organization she works with, only that it must be a different organization than those used around here as it's kids/families here who have told me their "puppy socialization" rules when they go out in public.  These puppies are raised for a year in families, traveling with them when ready, etc, then those that pass whatever test it is they need to pass go on to get trained as Guide Dogs.  Those that don't pass - the family that raises them gets first dibs on adoption.  There was also a gal at school who helped train future military dogs.  She's off doing it for real now as a career.

 

I apologize. I misread your comment about the rules as though you said she wasn't following them. I don't live in NJ but I know that The Seeing Eye is one of the premier guide dog schools in the country. I won't presume to tell them what rules to adopt. They've been at this a long time. 

 

We met some puppies being socialized at a recent event in dss' community. There was one puppy that they said would probably not pass. He was so cute and so friendly but they said he didn't show the necessary traits to be trained as a service dog. I think he was probably too friendly. :)

[SparklyUnicorn]

In my experiences, EVERY dog owner I've met thinks their dog is sweet, lovable, and won't hurt anyone.  Those close to the dog probably are genuinely in that position, but this might not be the same for strangers.  They might do unpredictable things.  I'm not worried about a tiny little dog.  If push comes to shove I've got a shot against a little dog.  But like a big dog?  No.  I don't.

 

I had a landlord who literally got mad that I was afraid of her dog.  She had a Rottweiler and believed him to be the sweetest dog.  She once asked me to go into her apartment to feed the dog.  I refused.  She got over it, but was kinda mad at me for awhile.  I went to visit her years after moving out of the building and she told me she was ordered to put the dog down because of two incidences.  One of which involved the dog lunging at an infant (her grandchild).  She apologized to me.  But really she defended the dog and claimed I was the one with the problem.  People don't think it's good enough for you to say I'm afraid of your dog and don't want to be near the dog.  They don't get it.  

 

 

[Amy in NH]

Odd how so many are ok with guns in stores but bring in a dog & suddenly there's umbrage.... 

 

I'd rather people bring a dog, even a fake service dog, than open carry or concealed guns. 

 

 

I'm not okay with either guns or dogs in stores.

[MercyA]

FWIW, I have no problem at all with other people liking dogs.  Someone ought to love them and give them good homes!  My sole issue comes when they assume I do as well as their dog is jumping on me or licking me.

 

I appreciate and understand that, creekland. And I'd have a house full of cats if I could!  :)

[hornblower]

 I think the problem is that for every responsible dog owner with a well-behaved dog, there may be another with a poorly trained and/or out of control dog. 

 

but again, as has been pointed out above:

 

you don't get well behaved in public dogs without exposing them to the public a lot which means they need to do it even when they're still learning and might screw up 

 

 

and more generally, what I see many people complaining about is just generally that people are often @$$holes and inconsiderate and that living in a densely populated area is just a pita because people are all weird and annoying in some way.

 

There are no exceptions. All people are weird and annoying.

 

People who let their dogs run loose  and out of control and don't pick up their dog poop are annoying rude people.

Dirty droooling snotty toddlers touching stuff in stores & grabbing at bulk bins are  gross and their parents are annoying rude people too.  

 

Loud children, people who go on rude swearing rants in store line ups, people who cut you off on the freeway.... I mean it's just life, kwim?  I think what rubs me the wrong way is people sometimes seem to suggest that dog people are so annoying but never listen or consider that stuff annoys US too, kwim and our annoyances are just as valid (& honestly more numerous because I see way more annoying people than annoying dogs :P - but that's probably just by virtue of the population sizes ) 

 

[gardenmom5]

Bouncing off this post -

 

My cousin works for a NJ guide dog school called The Seeing Eye. She doesn't train the dogs, but fosters, raises and socializes the puppies. She posts photos on facebook of places she takes the puppies (it's part of her job to post), which includes schools, festivals/fairs, stores, etc. Once they're old enough to train she turns them over to the trainer. Keep in mind when you see a working dog that they didn't learn how to behave out in public without actually being taken out in public. They don't always wear something that shows they're being trained, so I'm sure there are people who give her the side-eye for having a dog some place "where it doesn't belong".

'

 

I've only seen a puppy in a store once - it was a lab, and was wearing a "in training" vest. 99.99% of dogs I've seen in stores, are adults.   while many are purse dogs (don't try and tell me a purse dog is a service dog.)  I've also seen plenty of big dogs that are NOT service dogs.   they're not puppies being trained.  except for the one previously mentioned - every puppy has been a pet.  (most of the puppies have been outside.)

 

 

 

I guess I wish store owners would make clear their animal policies. Clearly state in the outside door if animals are allowed or “service dogs onlyâ€. I don’t want the people who genuinely need them for those hidden disabilities like diabetes or seizure disorders being forced to carry and show service dog cards because so

many people abused the system.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

People don't care - they take their dogs inside anyway.

[poppy]

You can't have a well-behaved dog if you are not allowed to take it anywhere. It is not entitlement; it is a training fact. 

 

Entitlement is changing a diaper on the table next to me in the restaurant as my dog sits quietly on her mat. Entitlement is letting your kids roam free in a store where they enjoy tripping older customers on purpose. Entitlement is paying no attention to the ongoing screaming of your own child and causing true agony to all hearing aid wearers. 

 

Entitlement, quite simply, is a title given to any side you want no part of. How dare they, we judge. Why is it never an introspection of "how dare I?"

 

 

 I trained my dog by socializing it without ever setting foot in a restaurant, library, store, theater or anywhere else.  Just like every responsible  American dog owner has for the past.... ever.     

 

You are absolutely welcome to take your dogs many many many places, including just about everywhere outdoors.

 

I agree, if you couldn't take it anywhere, it would not be well trained or socialized.  But that has nothing to do with this conversation

[creekland]

I apologize. I misread your comment about the rules as though you said she wasn't following them. I don't live in NJ but I know that The Seeing Eye is one of the premier guide dog schools in the country. I won't presume to tell them what rules to adopt. They've been at this a long time. 

 

We met some puppies being socialized at a recent event in dss' community. There was one puppy that they said would probably not pass. He was so cute and so friendly but they said he didn't show the necessary traits to be trained as a service dog. I think he was probably too friendly. :)

 

Friendly is not a positive for future military dogs!  (Just an aside, but I recall the young lady filling me in a lot about them - she loved her work.)

 

FWIW, even The Seeing Eye group suggests (on their puppy training page):

 

We do not encourage taking puppies to food stores and restaurants.

 

http://www.seeingeye.org/puppies-dogs/raise-a-puppy/puppy-faq.html

 

In general it seems like a terrific organization - a great opportunity for dog lovers of pretty much all ages.  

[poppy]

Obviously this is a touchy subject for me.  :) My tendency is to want to be combative, but I'll try to explain instead.

 

I think the judgment in threads like this is what gets to me. I don't mind people who politely admit a personal prejudice against dogs being treated like people, as one poster did here. I don't mind people who object to selfish people not wanting to follow rules--I object to that, too. I don't mind people being upset about uncontrolled dogs, or fake service dogs, or dogs whose people don't clean up after them. 

 

I do mind the snide attitude towards people who love dogs and treat them as family members. I do baby my dogs. They fill a need in my life and hopefully I fill needs in theirs. They may not be human beings, but those who actually know dogs know they are without a doubt their own little

"people" with their own little souls.

 

I've carried a dog in a sling. We were on vacation, walking in crowded places, and it was convenient. He was happy and I was happy. If I'm not breaking any rules, why should it bother anyone else?

 

The older I get, the more I realize how much we have in common with other living beings. Have a little care, show a little respect. That's all.   :)

 

 

If you dog in a sling never went into a store, restaurant, library, etc then I am completely cool with it.

I object talking about people who bring their dogs inside, with places that say 'service dogs  only'.

I do have a personal prejudice against thinking dogs are 'like people' in that they have inalienable rights equal to any human.  In a burning building I'd save my kid, not my dog.  But  I love our dog, I revolve my week around her daily 2 mile (at least) walks, she comes on vacation with us when we go camping, she has a special spot in my heart.  My daughter can't sleep without her. 

[Dmmetler]

Well, how about CC service dogs? Are you OK with those?

 

Nah, never mind. I'm messing with you. Dogs can't CC. Only cats.

Well, my DD CC'd her snake today-her psychology project was on ophidiophobia and she was using her python (who is an education animal and is used to being around groups of people and being handled-he probably gets touched, petted, and held by hundreds of kids each year) as part of a demonstration on how live animals are used in therapy (with prior permission from the relevant people). She just packed him in an Aldi bag (inside a travel tank). Of course, snakes are a lot quieter than dogs.

[Arcadia]

well, part of it is that just because something is a rule right now doesn't mean it should be a rule. Many people disagree with what is allowed now and so I guess this is their way of demonstrating their disagreement with the law.

 

I see dogs or any animals not being allowed in certain places as similar to nut free or smoking free areas. My local public elementary school is nut free while the other two nearest public elementary schools have nut free zones.

 

If a parent transfer their severely nut allergic child to the nut free school, it would be as bad as intention to cause harm if I knowingly snack on nuts in that school compound. There were parents who did that despite lots of repeated announcements and those who flout the rules said it was too troublesome for them to pack a nut free lunch. A few neighbors k-5th grade kids ate their lunch in isolation in a room specially for them because of that.

 

I am allergic to cigarette smoke. I am thankful for smoke free pubs so that I could go pub crawling with friends. My friends who are chain smokers won’t go to a smoke free pub and purposely smoke near the entrance or snub out their cigarette after entering. They would try not to go into the elevator right after smoke break so that the elevator doesn’t smell like cigarette smoke when they exhale.

 

A lady put her dog in the shopping cart at Trader Joe’s and then proceed to put vegetables and other groceries in that cart. A staff politely told her that the store does not allow animals in carts and the customer gave the staff a black face.

 

My kid’s flute teacher has lovely cats at home but she has students who are allergic to cats. So even though she does not teach those students at her home, she is also careful about not petting or carrying a friend’s/an acquaintance’s cat before teaching her students.

[Guinevere]

A dog is better trained by not allowing it to make mistakes, rather than correcting it after the mistake is made. Lots of good experiences, progressively made more challenging is the way to a solidly trained dog. It's a lot of hard work. I don't buy the idea that Fifi behaves badly in a store because he's not allowed in them. Fifi should be controlled at all times by his handler, wherever he is. A dog that pulls at his leash, and can't or wont maintain a down or a heel isn't a good candidate for a public exercursion. He needs a lot more work first.

[TravelingChris]

About fake service dogs. a month or two ago (maybe a bit more) there was the incident in Berkeley, CA, I believe where a fake Pitbull service dog (mentioning Dog breed because if not well behaved, they are a danger) and horrible man got on the BART train where a blind man and his service dog (a Doberman which often are considered dangerous but note, he was a true service dog) were on.  The fake dog attacked and badly injured the real service dog.  The blind man depended on his dog to move through life.  I never liked this trend of fake service and so called emotional support. My dd's college requires psychologist or psychiatric documentation for dorm rooms. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

About fake service dogs. a month or two ago (maybe a bit more) there was the incident in Berkeley, CA, I believe where a fake Pitbull service dog (mentioning Dog breed because if not well behaved, they are a danger) and horrible man got on the BART train where a blind man and his service dog (a Doberman which often are considered dangerous but note, he was a true service dog) were on.  The fake dog attacked and badly injured the real service dog.  The blind man depended on his dog to move through life.  I never liked this trend of fake service and so called emotional support. My dd's college requires psychologist or psychiatric documentation for dorm rooms. 

 

This is really upsetting.  The thing I mentioned about the guy at the CC (whose "service" dog seems poorly trained or not trained) is a pit bull.

 

I'm tempted to complain.  I really want to know why this dog lunges at and sniffs people.  Why would a trained service dog do that? 

 

And to me stuff like this ruins it for people who have legit needs. 

[gardenmom5]

eta:  computer problems.

 

 

 

If someone has a purse dog - no one cares.  Just don't take it to a store - I don't  want to grocery shop, or even clothing shop with a dog.  dogs that shed- leave their hair.  all dogs leave dander.  they're not appropriate in a movie either.  especially with today's sound systems and the booms and crashes.  I don't understand why people would take their dogs to 4th of july fireworks displays - when even the news will have blurbs on  NOT taking your pets for their own sanity, and how to help them be calm inside your house during all the noise.

it is a rare dog owner who understands what a "well-trained dog" really means.  Most think if it dosn't bite or comes when called - it's a nice dog.  does it jump on people?  does it rush up to people?  sniff them? sniff their food?  stare at other people while they're eating hoping to have a scrap tossed their way? grab something to use as a toy to play chase?  rush out a door as soon as it is opened?

ime- small dog owners are the worst at assessing behavior.

Edited November 13, 2017 by gardenmom5

[TravelingChris]

I don't bring my dog anywhere.   But, I don't have a problem with people that do.   I do have one reservation about it though.  

 

I used to spend several weeks every year in Germany.   It was shocking at first to see dogs everywhere.  Including at their master's feet at restaurants.   One thing I noticed was how well-behaved the dogs were.  As in service dog level of socialization, i.e. ignoring all other dogs and people.  I think that is what made it work.   I talked to a German co-worker and he said that Friendly is not a desirable trait in dogs to Germans.  Also, if someone's dog misbehaved in public, there would be huge social repercussions.  So, people just didn't take their dog out until they knew for certain that it wouldn't misbehave.  I don't see that with the Americans that take their dogs out and about.  

 

Both dh and I like well trained dogs but I am also in the group like the Germans- friendly is not really a consideration. Smart and well-behaved is.  Some dogs are more reserved naturally too -like poodles are more reserved than labs,.

[hornblower]

I love this commercial. So sweet.

Oh I'm glad you shared it because I haven't seen it before! SO cute. 

 

Our dogs are all too big to sling comfortably (though my mom's cavalier spent some time in a sling when she was a puppy) but we do have bonding pouch slings for our fancy rats. Ours are like this http://ratfanclub.org/sales_files/image002.jpg

 

Rats tend to freak out people even more than dogs though LOL.  There's a psychology prof around here though that brings her pet rats to class....

[Lady Florida.]

FWIW, I don't think people should take their dogs where they aren't allowed. I just wish they were allowed more places like they are in some European countries. I also get angry when people try to pass of their pet dog as a service dog.

 

A few years ago Florida enacted a law making it a crime (misdemeanor) to fake a service animal. The problem is the law has no teeth. Merchants can only ask if the animal is a service animal and if so, what service do they provide. There's no actual proof required. It's a start but I think it needs to go farther. It's like the seat belt or texting and driving laws that are a secondary offense. They're basically useless laws.

[gardenmom5]

About fake service dogs. a month or two ago (maybe a bit more) there was the incident in Berkeley, CA, I believe where a fake Pitbull service dog (mentioning Dog breed because if not well behaved, they are a danger) and horrible man got on the BART train where a blind man and his service dog (a Doberman which often are considered dangerous but note, he was a true service dog) were on.  The fake dog attacked and badly injured the real service dog.  The blind man depended on his dog to move through life.  I never liked this trend of fake service and so called emotional support. My dd's college requires psychologist or psychiatric documentation for dorm rooms. 

 

even small "fake" service purse dogs have attacked real service dogs.  there was a case with a purse dog who bit the nose of the real service dog, which did require vet care afterwards. the fake/purse dog's owner claimed fifi was a service dog, - but did start backing down when confronted. to therapy dog, then comfort dog, before finally "essentially" admitting fifi was just a spoiled pet.

 

This is really upsetting.  The thing I mentioned about the guy at the CC (whose "service" dog seems poorly trained or not trained) is a pit bull.

 

I'm tempted to complain.  I really want to know why this dog lunges at and sniffs people.  Why would a trained service dog do that? 

 

And to me stuff like this ruins it for people who have legit needs. 

 

a TRAINED service dog would not.   I would complain.  if it is a legit service dog (which I doubt)- it needs remedial training.   and if it's not legit - it's out.

[gardenmom5]

I admit, I don't like most small dogs.  I had german shepherds.   she was well trained. I lost count of the number of times I was walking her on a leash (NOT retractable), and she was minding her own business - and small dogs would come rushing up to crazy-bark at her.   she'd look at them with a "what's your problem?" expression.

 

eta:I would add, those small dogs were on retractable leashes and their owners didn't care about their behavior.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by gardenmom5

[Catwoman]

but again, as has been pointed out above:

 

you don't get well behaved in public dogs without exposing them to the public a lot which means they need to do it even when they're still learning and might screw up

 

 

and more generally, what I see many people complaining about is just generally that people are often @$$holes and inconsiderate and that living in a densely populated area is just a pita because people are all weird and annoying in some way.

 

There are no exceptions. All people are weird and annoying.

 

People who let their dogs run loose and out of control and don't pick up their dog poop are annoying rude people.

Dirty droooling snotty toddlers touching stuff in stores & grabbing at bulk bins are gross and their parents are annoying rude people too.

 

Loud children, people who go on rude swearing rants in store line ups, people who cut you off on the freeway.... I mean it's just life, kwim? I think what rubs me the wrong way is people sometimes seem to suggest that dog people are so annoying but never listen or consider that stuff annoys US too, kwim and our annoyances are just as valid (& honestly more numerous because I see way more annoying people than annoying dogs :P - but that's probably just by virtue of the population sizes )

 

But the thing is, many of us here ARE dog people, and we still don't think dogs belong in Walmart or the grocery store because many dogs are not well-trained. I don't think anyone is faulting the dogs for their behavior -- I have only seen the owners being blamed for being inconsiderate of others and for not having enough control over their pets in public.

 

All of my dogs have been properly trained and socialized in places where dogs were allowed to be, but honestly the most important thing was the training and socialization they got when they were at home. It's not necessary to "train" the average dog at a department store or inside a restaurant. The dog can learn proper manners at home and at places like regular parks, dog parks, walking trails, or in the homes of dog-friendly relatives and friends.

[gardenmom5]

This is really upsetting.  The thing I mentioned about the guy at the CC (whose "service" dog seems poorly trained or not trained) is a pit bull.

 

I'm tempted to complain.  I really want to know why this dog lunges at and sniffs people.  Why would a trained service dog do that? 

 

And to me stuff like this ruins it for people who have legit needs. 

 

a TRAINED service dog would not.   I would complain.  if it is a legit service dog (which I doubt)- it needs remedial training.   and if it's not legit - it's out.

 

I wanted to add:

 

a *trained* PET - would NOT do that!

My mother purchased a former show dog as a pet.  when she was on leash - she was CONSTANTLY looking to see where my mother was so she would be in heel position.

she was a papillion, was helpful for dudeling in his fear of dogs.  she was so calm, and well behaved.  the one thing- she would not come closer than three feet if she was called, even if you offered her a treat - UNLESS you were sitting down.   we don't know what happened with a former owner, but we think someone was kicking her.

[Arcadia]

This is really upsetting. The thing I mentioned about the guy at the CC (whose "service" dog seems poorly trained or not trained) is a pit bull.

 

I'm tempted to complain. I really want to know why this dog lunges at and sniffs people. Why would a trained service dog do that?

 

And to me stuff like this ruins it for people who have legit needs.

We did look to see how many pets were around at college campuses when we visited. My DS11 had screamed in such scenarios which is why he avoids Biology class like the plague. He’ll avoid psychology class too if he knows there are animals there. Aquariums are fine but he avoids zoos.

 

We are in a dog friendly area. The only time someone reacts is when kids scream in terror. Adults and older kids are told to deal with it (as in move away from the dog). My DS11 is small for his age so people would react like he is a young child if he scream.

 

I have seen toddlers trying to give away their candies and chocolates to dogs at the park though so the dog owners do have to be careful too. I have had toddlers gave me and other people at the park their candies.

 

A local person trains service dogs as her only job and she brings the dog to Starbucks as part of training. She acknowledges that some people are truly cynophobic and none of the service dogs she trained are friendly.

 

My neighbor’s dog is very friendly. They are careful that their dog doesn’t chase the kids when they are out walking in the condo compound. Their dog (Maltese) has ran out of their door and chased my kids, and my neighbor and his child had to run after their dog barefooted. They learned not to open their main door before they are ready to leave after that.

 

There are Muslims who would avoid dogs. It would be offensive for me to bring a pet dog near my Muslim friends who believe dogs are impure.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Arcadia

[gardenmom5]

 

My neighbor’s dog is very friendly. They are careful that their dog doesn’t chase the kids when they are out walking in the condo compound. Their dog (Maltese) has ran out of their door and chased my kids, and my neighbor and his child had to run after their dog barefooted. They learned not to open their main door before they are ready to leave after that.

 

 

so, instead of training the dog not to run out the door - they are training people....

 

there was one year trick or treating. they  obviously wanted trick or treaters - but didn't corral the untrained dogs. there were three, maybe 25-30? lbs.   as soon as ,they opened the door, they were off and chasing kids.  including my scared of dogs son - who was running away.

[Lizzie in Ma]

This is really upsetting.  The thing I mentioned about the guy at the CC (whose "service" dog seems poorly trained or not trained) is a pit bull.

 

I'm tempted to complain.  I really want to know why this dog lunges at and sniffs people.  Why would a trained service dog do that? 

 

And to me stuff like this ruins it for people who have legit needs. 

 

A trained service dog would not do that under any circumstances.

 

[bibliophile]

I saw a parrot in Target the other day. Not perched on a shoulder or even on the shopping cart handle. Nope, it was chilling in the seat of the cart.

[hornblower]

So far as 'dogs in Europe' goes, idk guys. I lived in the UK for two years - yes, there were dogs in pubs when I lived in the country, but when I lived in the city ? I can tell y'all that there were not a million and one dogs shopping in Marks and Sparks. 

I didn't shop much and didn't see them in stores in London but saw them on buses, the tube, and on the trains in & out of the city. 

 

The transit thing is a big one. Our city is just starting to allow animals on transit but only if they're in a carrier & only during off hours. 

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

So far as 'dogs in Europe' goes, idk guys. I lived in the UK for two years - yes, there were dogs in pubs when I lived in the country, but when I lived in the city ? I can tell y'all that there were not a million and one dogs shopping in Marks and Sparks. 

 

I didn't see them all over the place in Germany either.  Once in awhile at an outdoor cafe, but absolutely not in a store or inside a restaurant. 

[TravelingChris]

That happened to my cat! Usually the TSA people just wanted to pet him, but this one particularly overzealous TSA guy had me carry my cat through the metal detector thingie as usual, but then said he would have to pat down the cat. I have a feeling the guy must have been new, because the woman who was working with him said, "Oh for God's sake, she's fine, and so is the cat." And she looked at me and said, "I'm sorry about this. Just go." :lol:

 

I guess the cat had a suspicious look about him or something. He did always wear a little camo vest instead of a regular harness for his leash. Maybe the TSA guy figured he was one of those Rambo type cats...

 

OMG,  I am so happy that didn't happen either when we were moving to Europe or particularly the hell trip back from Europe.  My one cat then- a Siamese- no real issues.  My big Probable Turkish Van- huge problem-- I know at least 4 times vet techs or boarding kennel people didn't the warnings and paid the price. He would have made that TSA agent regret it and probably would have meant we wouldn't be allowed to travel etc. 

[8circles]

I'm generally a rule follower and it bothers me when others aren't. Fake service dogs do harm to those who need real ones. However, I would like less hysteria, in general, about dogs in public.

 

I live in suburbia. I rarely see dog poo that hasn't been picked-up by the owner - and frankly I wouldn't necessarily know if it were dog poo or another species. I have never, ever, ever seen a non-service dog in a non-pet store. Never.

 

I would love to be able to take my small dog lots of places and have taken him in a bag to a crowded event. We are training him well and he has a lovely disposition, even being a chihuahua. But yes, he could hurt someone given the right circumstances. We aren't delusional. 

[HS Mom in NC]

How is it that so many people who have badly behaved dogs are so unaware that their dogs are badly behaved?  I know people with badly behaved dogs (disobedient, unnecessary barking/whining, crotch sniffing, pulling on leashes, etc.) who talk about how well behaved their dogs are because they are genuinely clueless about what others consider well behaved.   And why do so many dog owners fail to clean up after their dogs in public parks and public sidewalks?  I walk and hike regularly and am not impressed by most dog owners I see out and about ignoring this basic responsibility of ownership.

In general, because the typical dog owner fails in these areas, it's not acceptable to have dogs in public places in the US.  You want to take your dog in out in public and not have people resent you?  Then take the time or spend the money to have a very well trained dog.

At a piano lesson my kid was attacked by a "fur baby" on a leash owned by the parent of the kid having the lesson before her. She asked permission to pet the dog.  (Probably a Jack Russel mix.)   "But he's never done that before!??!??!?!? He's always been so friendly!?!?!?" said the owner.  Uh, well that doesn't change the fact that it happened to my kid. That's the central problem with many situations-you can't always predict future bad behavior based on a perfect past track record.  Sorry owners, you just don't know what your dog is going to do.  You're wishfully hoping it will be fine and some of you will win that gamble, but some of you will lose and cause someone to be harmed for no good reason.   Your dog needs a dog friend and a nice yard, not to be out and about with people.

At a get together for a friend's I was 6 weeks postpartum from a c-section that got infected and almost killed me. It was my first trip out of the house and I was not 100%.  Someone brought a dog this social gathering (I have no idea why) and one of the children who was there, a girl of about 8 or 9, had a terrible fear of dogs.  She walked down the hallway into the room right next to where I was sitting, saw the dog and jumped screaming into the nearest lap-mine. Another dog owner causing someone harm because they brought a dog to an inappropriate setting.

This weekend I was at a baby shower.  The hostess has a fur baby and a 2 year old.  Another guest brought their Husky mix puppy to play with the hostess's dog INSIDE! The husky was constantly jumping at the 2 year old's face and the owner wasn't supervising it, so the other guests kept having to protect the 2 year old.  There was almost an hour of it before the owner decided to take the dog outside. Dog owner failure X2.  Hostess should've insisted they go in the backyard and the owner should've insisted they go in the backyard.

I have a very low opinion of dog owners in general because of these kinds of incidents.  I know of one very well trained dog. A few other owners keep their obnoxious dogs away from company and the public.  Again, if you're not going to train your dog very well, keep your dog away from other people. 

[Element]

My heart sings when I see a content, well behaved dog in public. That animal has earned its place under the table. My dog is a neurotic mess. He’s happier at home and it’s better for society all around.

 

Dogs-as-accessories annoy me, but generally their owners are more obnoxious than the dog. 

I'm right there with you! Moms of neurotic stay-at-home-dogs unite! 

[hornblower]

How is it that so many people who have badly behaved dogs are so unaware that their dogs are badly behaved?  

 

It's the same type of people who don't notice their children aren't well behaved. 

 

Also the same people who don't notice *they're* not well behaved. 

 

 

I also think many people only call a dog well behaved if they don't notice it at all. The standard they're expecting is unreasonable.

 

Anyway, I guess I could say the same about kids - "the well behaved ones I don't even notice they exist, the others should stay home with their nanny"  

 

Dh met a woman a couple weeks ago in our neighbourhood & stopped to talk to her and visit with her old dog. He then promptly reported to me: "go meet her, you'll like her. She told me she's sleeping on a futon downstairs because the dog can't make it upstairs to the bedroom anymore. And her husband is doing a job in South America for part of the year but she refused to move because the dog wouldn't like it down there so she sent her husband alone." Yup, my kind of people :D