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Scarlett

25 yo man interested in 15 year old girl.

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16 is too young to be making a choice like that. There is a reason why minors are not allowed to legally enter contracts without parental consent.

And I doubt t she would get hired for a career like that until she is at least eighteen. There are too many issues for a doctor's office or medical practice to deal with a minor in such a role.

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 if they need consent - she's too young. 

 

Yes, this.  You are not ready to enter a lifelong adult commitment when you still need your parents permission to do so.  

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No no no no no no.

 

And furthermore, no.

 

It would think it normal for a 15yo to be immature enough to be flattered by the attention. The problem is what kind of 25 yo man would be interested in a 15yo. Even if interested "from afar" a sensible, decent man would wait until the girl is older.

Exactly. Back in early spring when she was barely 15 I noticed her flirting with him. I thought hmmm....well, that is what girls do. THEN after a few months I noticed him responding. I freaked out. I asked the mom about it....are they dating. She said no and where did I hear such a thing. Now it is just a big joke...everyone knows they are and no one is admitting it.

 

Just nuts.

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But, why?? She can’t go to college, she can’t work. What does she do?? I really dislike these parents!!

 

So, what does this girl do all day? Does she have a job? Go to CC? Is she a stay at home daughter who is waiting to get married? 

 

She sure isn't living a typical 15 yo girl's life in any case. That may play a large role in the odd relationship with the 25 yo. She couldn't really date a high school junior if she's already graduated, they wouldn't have much in common either.

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But, why?? She can’t go to college, she can’t work. What does she do?? I really dislike these parents!!

 

she can too go to college.  there may be more hassles, she may need to go somewhere local she can live at home, or do college online - but yeah, WHY aren't the parents encouraging her? 

 

how do  they feel about formal education?   I'm finding certain "groups" who think higher education is "bad", and corrupting.  are they those?  or just girls don't 'need' a lot of education?

 

does the young many have a college degree?  does he work?  (more than a dead-end job.)

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she can too go to college. there may be more hassles, she may need to go somewhere local she can live at home, or do college online - but yeah, WHY aren't the parents encouraging her?

 

how do they feel about formal education? I'm finding certain "groups" who think higher education is "bad", and corrupting. are they those? or just girls don't 'need' a lot of education?

 

does the young many have a college degree? does he work? (more than a dead-end job.)

He has a good job. Blue collar bit good. He is not a loser....except for the part about liking a. 15 year old.

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And I doubt t she would get hired for a career like that until she is at least eighteen. There are too many issues for a doctor's office or medical practice to deal with a minor in such a role.

 

my son had a ccna when he graduated high school.  there were limits to what he could do becasue he was under 21.

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So, what does this girl do all day? Does she have a job? Go to CC? Is she a stay at home daughter who is waiting to get married?

 

She sure isn't living a typical 15 yo girl's life in any case. That may play a large role in the odd relationship with the 25 yo. She couldn't really date a high school junior if she's already graduated, they wouldn't have much in common either.

No she isn't typical. For sure. But she stays busy and is a good girl. Girl being the operative word.

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Eh. You said you considered him stable and a good example until now. I'm not as horrified as the rest of you. Sorry.  :)

 

I know someone (not me) who decided, as a teenager, that she wanted to marry a man in their very conservative church who was almost 20 years older than her. He had no idea she was interested, but her father approached him. The man in question initially wasn't sure if it was the right thing, but apparently everyone in their church thought it was a good match. Beautiful family. They've been married many years now and have lovely, mature, intelligent children and a thriving business. They're very happy and I'm happy for them. 

 

If they really are both immature, that's not a good thing, of course. That would be the thing that would most give me pause. If it's meant to be, they can wait. (I met my husband as a teenager and we waited for six years.)

 

It's a little weird now but not strange at all historically speaking. 

 

I wouldn't support anything illegal.

 

If it were my daughter, I think I'd encourage her to wait several years and then see.

 

ETA: Thought about this some more. I think he should have waited several years and THEN expressed his interest. Now is not the time.

Edited by MercyA
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When I was 15 I had almost this same situation.  I think the guy was 24-25.  He was showing a lot of interest in me and I was bowled over by it.  I met my husband at 17, friendship groups changed etc.  It was only later I looked back on it and got really creeped out.  Seriously, WTH?  A man that age interested in a 15 year old is not right.  I'm willing to consider he might look at her and think, wow, she could be a great women when she is grown, but he would immediately crush that thought and put it on ice because it is just not appropriate to be thinking that way about a minor. 

 

FTR, my husband is older than me but was part of our friend group starting at about 17.  There was only platonic group interaction.  We didn't date until I was 18 1/2.

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I would say very religious and the plan to remain chaste. But this just seems so over the top for all the people involved. Not normal in our circles at all.

 

It is mostly the fact she is 15!!!! I have seen signs of the parents encouraging it. I am just gobsmacked.

 

Are they maybe looking to marry her off? One less mouth to feed sort of thing?  Does this guy have some business or money for something that would benifit her family or that they need? 

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 However - I still don't recommend that big of an age difference for anybody at any age except maybe over 70. If you're re-marrying at 70 and your mate is 82, it may not matter much. Younger ages, it does seem to matter at least some of the time.

 

I think over the age of 30, a 10 year age gap is nothing. I'm not looking to re-enter the dating pool, but if I were, I would consider men in their early 50's to be plausible dates for me assuming they're healthy & active. They're still my generation (Xers) rather than my parents' (Boomers).

 

My oldest DD is 15 and I would consider anybody over 17 to be too old for her to date even if the relationship were chaste.

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Are they maybe looking to marry her off? One less mouth to feed sort of thing? Does this guy have some business or money for something that would benifit her family or that they need?

I would have never thought that. And no he isn't wealthy. He could provide for her....but certainly not a money thing,

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I would say it is tightly monitored....but it is definitely romantic interest although they all deny it.

Deny it as in, "head in the sand" just pretending that they are good best buddy pals with zero romantic interest? Or just not admitting to others that they are dating because they know pretty much everyone will tell them it's wrong?

 

They (parents and the couple) keep denying that they are dating. I suspect when she turns 16 next year they will get married.

So they are clearly dating, just not calling it dating? I've known young ladies who were clearly in a romantic relationship insist they weren't dating because he hadn't asked her to be his girlfriend so they weren't an "official couple" or one or both wasn't allowed to "date" or have a bf/gf so they were basically dating but just not calling it that.

 

Anyway, my official opinion is that it's weird. I certainly believe in time it could work out just great, assuming they are both good people with good intentions who just happen to fall outside the age gap that is considered ideal in our current society. If he's the kind of creep or aimless guy that no 23yo girl would want to date then my answer would be different. Also, since you said she is actually a high school graduate that puts her in a weird place at such a young age. She's no longer a high school student, but I know 15year olds who are high school freshmen. And due to two years off and the way credits transferred, my 22yo is a college sophomore, along with some 18yos who are also sophomores. It isn't always easy being "off" from the typical timeline, so it can mean that your "peers" in school or work are significantly different in age.

Edited by Rebel Yell
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I took college classes at fifteen, so that is not an issue for her.

 

But Scarlett, given what you have noticed and the parental reaction, it does smack of a set of parents that may have embraced the Dominionist philosophy of Stay At Home Daughter which is against college education for girls, often claims girls are pursuing "professional" careers when in reality they are not being allowed to do so, and expects girls to marry very young, and court quite young. Those that are involved in this locally will often deny the courtship of a girl as young as fourteen or fifteen to an adult male because they know it is going to be met with disdain. They keep it under wraps claiming there is no dating or courtship until the girl is old enough to marry with parental consent. The girl is raised to believe it is ungodly, a terrible sin, to want anything different for herself.

 

The fact that the relationship and flirtation is blatantly obvious yet denied by the parents, makes me think this is highly probable.

 

The other thing that came to mind was money. My mom was practically forced to marry at seventeen by her poverty stricken mother who simply wanted one less mouth to feed and since father figure was in the military she figured she would not have to worry about mom. My paternal grandmother suffered the same. She was forced to marry my grandfather because her parents did not want to support her anymore and thought it would be scandalous for her to be "a working woman".

Edited by FaithManor
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I'm sitting here next to my 15 year old dd watching a movie and thinking no, no, NO!

 

Dh was 25 when we met and married. I look young and he actually asked to see my ID before we dated to make sure I was how old is said I was (I was 21). He would have ran away had I been 15 no matter what he thought of me.

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IDK, I don't think that it's downright creepy. If historical interest over that age span was normal then why is modern interest pedophilic?

 

When my sister was 17 she moved half way across the country to move in with her online boyfriend who was 32. Now she did know him beforehand as he was the older sibling of her best friend, but barely. I was so concerned about her. Long story short, they got married a few years later and are still together. I think that they actually work quite well together. If you want creepy, my sister can remember sitting on her husband's x-girlfriends lap at a birthday party when she was 4 and he was 19!

Edited by Rose M
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Eh. You said you considered him stable and a good example until now. I'm not as horrified as the rest of you. Sorry. :)

 

I know someone (not me) who decided, as a teenager, that she wanted to marry a man in their very conservative church who was almost 20 years older than her. He had no idea she was interested, but her father approached him. The man in question initially wasn't sure if it was the right thing, but apparently everyone in their church thought it was a good match. Beautiful family. They've been married many years now and have lovely, mature, intelligent children and a thriving business. They're very happy and I'm happy for them.

 

If they really are both immature, that's not a good thing, of course. That would be the thing that would most give me pause. If it's meant to be, they can wait. (I met my husband as a teenager and we waited for six years.)

 

It's a little weird now but not strange at all historically speaking.

 

I wouldn't support anything illegal.

 

If it were my daughter, I think I'd encourage her to wait several years and then see.

 

ETA: Thought about this some more. I think he should have waited several years and THEN expressed his interest. Now is not the time.

Yes. And no one in our entire congregation thinks it is normal. Or a good idea. It creeps everyone out.

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I took college classes at fifteen, so that is not an issue for her.

 

But Scarlett, given what you have noticed and the parental reaction, it does smack of a set of parents that may have embraced the Dominionist philosophy of Stay At Home Daughter which is against college education for girls, often claims girls are pursuing "professional" careers when in reality they are not being allowed to do so, and expects girls to marry very young, and court quite young. Those that are involved in this locally will often deny the courtship of a girl as young as fourteen or fifteen to an adult male because they know it is going to be met with disdain. They keep it under wraps claiming there is no dating or courtship until the girl is old enough to marry with parental consent. The girl is raised to believe it is ungodly, a terrible sin, to want anything different for herself.

 

The fact that the relationship and flirtation is blatantly obvious yet denied by the parents, makes me think this is highly probable.

 

The other thing that came to mind was money. My mom was practically forced to marry at seventeen by her poverty stricken mother who simply wanted one less mouth to feed and since father figure was in the military she figured she would not have to worry about mom. My paternal grandmother suffered the same. She was forced to marry my grandfather because her parents did not want to support her anymore and thought it would be scandalous for her to be "a working woman".

But the thing is....none of that is any of us. At all. They aren't that way and nothing in our religion or culture encourages it.

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But the thing is....none of that is any of us. At all. They aren't that way and nothing in our religion or culture encourages it.

 

Well something is going on with her parents. They thought it was a good idea for their 15 yo to graduate from Penn Foster with not much of a plan in place. Why did they do that? She could have taken the normal 4 years to do high school either in homeschool or online or in a B&M and been around people her own age. Now, she's in a strange no man's land of no longer being a child because she's graduated high school but not being an adult either since she's not working full time or going to college. There must be some reason that her parents allowed (or encouraged?) her to put herself in this position.

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I wanted to come back and say this RE: age differences.

 

My husband and I are 12 years apart in age.  We met when I was 16.  I had a crush on him. He said, "No way, Jailbait!"

 

Our paths crossed again when I was 21 (but I was dating someone else) and again when I was 25 and him 37. We've been together ever since.  Age differences are fine........when everyone is a grownup.  He readily admitted he thought I was adorable at 16, but wasn't gonna touch that with a 10 foot pole.

 

 

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Yes. And no one in our entire congregation thinks it is normal. Or a good idea. It creeps everyone out.

And while not a fan of group think most of the time, if it sets off the concern meters of that many people, it definitely makes one pause to think about it.

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Fella should focus on saving for a house deposit and come back again when she's 18.

 

Girlie should get herself a qualification and start working towards a house deposit too.

 

 

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But the thing is....none of that is any of us. At all. They aren't that way and nothing in our religion or culture encourages it.

Scarlett, they do not have to belong to a dominionist church group to have been influenced by the philosophy. Between Doug Phillips, Doug Wilson, Code is Bauchman, Scott Brown, and Geoffrey Botkin, and many others there have been a lot of infiltration of conservatism, homeschool conventions, religious books on family issues, etc. that have suckered many parents from a wide variety of Christian denominations.

 

My mom's church is not remotely dominionist, and yet has five such families that have joined in the past few years. They will tell you that what they believe matches the mainstream within the congregation and yet in practice, it doesn't.

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Yes. And no one in our entire congregation thinks it is normal. Or a good idea. It creeps everyone out.

 

Then he probably needs to rein it in, back out of the picture, and come back in several years, if both of them are still interested.

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Fella should focus on saving for a house deposit and come back again when she's 18.

 

Girlie should get herself a qualification and start working towards a house deposit too.

 

Yes.

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Scarlett, they do not have to belong to a dominionist church group to have been influenced by the philosophy. Between Doug Phillips, Doug Wilson, Code is Bauchman, Scott Brown, and Geoffrey Botkin, and many others there have been a lot of infiltration of conservatism, homeschool conventions, religious books on family issues, etc. that have suckered many parents from a wide variety of Christian denominations.

 

My mom's church is not remotely dominionist, and yet has five such families that have joined in the past few years. They will tell you that what they believe matches the mainstream within the congregation and yet in practice, it doesn't.

It is highly, highly unlikely they are following some idea like that. It is like they just have blinders on with regards to this man and their daughter. They are deeply involved, long time members of our religion. They aren't off reading up on some dominion its religion or ideology.

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I wanted to come back and say this RE: age differences.

 

My husband and I are 12 years apart in age. We met when I was 16. I had a crush on him. He said, "No way, Jailbait!"

 

Our paths crossed again when I was 21 (but I was dating someone else) and again when I was 25 and him 37. We've been together ever since. Age differences are fine........when everyone is a grownup. He readily admitted he thought I was adorable at 16, but wasn't gonna touch that with a 10 foot pole.

Exactly. The right and respectful thing to do is give her time to grow up a bit and not mess with the relationship stuff when she can barely reasonably consent, by way of her own age and life inexperience compared to his. If it’s worth it, it will still be worth it a few years later.

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I am not familiar with courtship. No one in my world has ever done that. But isn't a 15 year old girl too young for courtship even?

 

People who are into courtship don't think anything about a 25yo courting a 15yo. Ok, that's a blanket statement, but I have heard of this happening. It may include conversations between the father of the girl and the creepy older guy who wants to court her, wherein the father gives his permission and sets the ground rules. Also creepy.

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He needs to run from this girl so he doesn't get hit with sex offender status at some point.  She needs to run from him because there is something off about  a grown man who has an interest in a non-mature teen.

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This is similar to me and DH. When we met, I was 19, he was 27. We dated for four years, so it wasn't any hurry to get married. Also, I was living independently of my parents from age 20.

 

However - I still don't recommend that big of an age difference for anybody at any age except maybe over 70. If you're re-marrying at 70 and your mate is 82, it may not matter much. Younger ages, it does seem to matter at least some of the time.

Even at advanced ages, there is reason for caution. SW i worked with told me it is very common for older single men (who especially do not have good relationships with their adult children) to seek out widows a decade younger to be their late in life caregivers and even for financial support, if the woman has SS and savings of her own. Said she saw it all the time - the woman becomes an indentured servant, her savings drained and health impacted through caregiving chores.

 

No matter what age, marriage should not be entered into lightly.

 

OP, this definitely sounds like part of a courtship/Let Them Marry sort of arrangement. Not okay.

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Oh she is finished with high school.

 

See the thing is....she comes across as a very mature girl. She is smart, advanced....but she is VERY immature. He is too for that matter. Which explains why he likes a 15 year old.

Is she not college bound? What does she do all day?

 

ETA NVM, asked and answered

Edited by Seasider

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Still creepy. His cousins call him a pedophile.

 

 

Properly speaking, if his primary sexual attraction is to adolescents, he's an ephebophile and not a pedophile. /unnecessary pedant

 

Seriously, though, she needs to be in school until she is an adult. If she's graduated high school, that means she needs to be enrolled full time in college. She shouldn't be thinking about marriage. And neither he nor her parents should be encouraging this!

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Their friends.....both age groups....have totally ostercized them. No one wants anything to do with it.

This should be a huge waving red flag. With sparklers.

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I got married at 19. Dh was 20. It was good for us, and all has been well.

 

But. A 25yo man with a good heart and sound judgement wouldn't be putting a 15 yo girl in this position. I don't know him, but he's lost my respect and trust already.

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EW EW EW EWWWWWWW! There's something WRONG with that man.

 

(My response is based solely on the thread title. Off to actually read it now . . .)

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I've had the chance to know more than one woman who was "so mature" as a teen and only dated much older men because she could "relate." It's not normal. I know it occasionally works out, but more often the women is divorced by 40 and weirdly trying to recapture her lost adolescence. A lot of times these are also the girls with no female friends. I'm sure that occasionally the girl is well adjusted and making sound decisions, but most of the time they're delusional and the men that date them are creeps.

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He needs to run from this girl so he doesn't get hit with sex offender status at some point. She needs to run from him because there is something off about a grown man who has an interest in a non-mature teen.

I don't see sex offender happening. I see them getting married as soon as she turns 16.

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I've had the chance to know more than one woman who was "so mature" as a teen and only dated much older men because she could "relate." It's not normal. I know it occasionally works out, but more often the women is divorced by 40 and weirdly trying to recapture her lost adolescence. A lot of times these are also the girls with no female friends. I'm sure that occasionally the girl is well adjusted and making sound decisions, but most of the time they're delusional and the men that date them are creeps.

 

Yep. I have seen it a lot too. It is almost like they get stuck in a pretend grown up phase and never really grow up and it becomes painfully obvious by mid 20s.

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I was 18 and dh was 32 when we got married. We had a courtship model, no dating. Fully chaperoned at all times. We are still married 25 years later. Sometimes you just meet the right partner and know it is the right one. Dh, before meeting me had actively been searching for a wife and had only been looking in his age group. He says he was searching around the world ( he did backpack for 5 years) he was pretty supprised to fall in love with someone so much younger.

 

Quite frankly I think 15 is too young, but I have no problem with a 18 year old forming a relationship with an older man. Let's face it men are pretty immature until the are 25 and not really worth looking at.

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I was 18 and dh was 32 when we got married. We had a courtship model, no dating. Fully chaperoned at all times. We are still married 25 years later. Sometimes you just meet the right partner and know it is the right one. Dh, before meeting me had actively been searching for a wife and had only been looking in his age group. He says he was searching around the world ( he did backpack for 5 years) he was pretty supprised to fall in love with someone so much younger.

 

Quite frankly I think 15 is too young, but I have no problem with a 18 year old forming a relationship with an older man. Let's face it men are pretty immature until the are 25 and not really worth looking at.

Right I agree that the big problem is that she is 15 which is just too young. I mean she is still a kid.

 

Fully chaperoned doesn't necessarily make it a courtship deal does it? I thought courtship was something different. I have never known anyone to use that term.

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She works some and is heavily involved in volunteer work. A few months back the story was she was gong to take a course in medical,billing or some such. Now I figure she is waiting to turn 16 and get married.

To me this speaks to the family culture where she's been taught that the only thing she says good for is marriage. There's nothing wrong with being a wife and mother, (I am!) but it certainly wasn't my goal in life at fifteen. She is a child still. I remember all the stupid decisions I made at that age.

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People who are into courtship don't think anything about a 25yo courting a 15yo. Ok, that's a blanket statement, but I have heard of this happening. It may include conversations between the father of the girl and the creepy older guy who wants to court her, wherein the father gives his permission and sets the ground rules. Also creepy.

So the father is looking for a man to replace his super control over the daughter? Sorry I don't go for anything resembling courtship. Ick ick ick.

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Right I agree that the big problem is that she is 15 which is just too young. I mean she is still a kid.

 

Fully chaperoned doesn't necessarily make it a courtship deal does it? I thought courtship was something different. I have never known anyone to use that term.

Well I thought that fully chaperoned was courtship. It certainly isn't dating.

I am off to look up courtship ..

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I've had the chance to know more than one woman who was "so mature" as a teen and only dated much older men because she could "relate." It's not normal. I know it occasionally works out, but more often the women is divorced by 40 and weirdly trying to recapture her lost adolescence. A lot of times these are also the girls with no female friends. I'm sure that occasionally the girl is well adjusted and making sound decisions, but most of the time they're delusional and the men that date them are creeps.

Totally agree. I always cringe when I hear about a teen girl who " is SO mature." Unless a person is some prodigious savant, which is highly unusual and comes with it's own set of issues, there is no skipping the normal stages of growing up.

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Ok so a quick search and it seems that if you are chaperoned, and are with a person of the opposite sex that you Are hoping to form a permanent relationship then it is courtship, though there seems to be a differing views on physical contact. Some saying no physical contact and others saying contact is fine as long as there is no sex.

 

Whereas dating is more for personal pleasure and may or may not lead to a permanent relationship.

 

 

I think some people hear the word courting and think of the most strict definition.

 

 

Sorry about the random capital letters. My iPad is so not helpful sometimes.

Edited by Melissa in Australia
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Well I thought that fully chaperoned was courtship. It certainly isn't dating.

I am off to look up courtship ..

That's my understanding - fully chaperoned and with an explicit intention to marry. There is no such thing as, "let's see if we make a good match." The parents are supposed to determine if it's a good match.

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That's my understanding - fully chaperoned and with an explicit intention to marry. There is no such thing as, "let's see if we make a good match." The parents are supposed to determine if it's a good match.

I don't think it is necessarily the parents determining if it is a good match. I have known couples intheir late 30's to use a courtship instead of dating. Their parents were not in the picture at all

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