ideas for consequences?

[caedmyn]

I need some ideas for consequences for my 6 & 8 YOs.  They have no respect for the property of other people in the household.  If they want to play with or use something, they do, whether it's my kitchen utensils, DH's tools or office supplies, or DD's personal possessions or jewelry.  They are always taking things and losing them outside or ruining them and I am tired of it.

 

Also, they are supposed to stay out of certain areas of the house and they don't follow this either.  They aren't supposed to be downstairs except at bedtime because they mess with things and there's no reason for them to be down there (no toys in the bedrooms).  They aren't supposed to go in DH's office, which has a eye hook latch, but they shimmy up the walls in the hallway and flip the latch and go in there.  I can't see the hallway from the kitchen/dining area which is where I spend most of my time during the day, so it's hard to prevent this.  Also I have huge problems with brain fog which we haven't been able to find the cause of and I'm not really able to notice and head them off from these things, so I need to come up with consequences that will motivate them to want to follow the rules.

 

Any suggestions?

[maize]

I find that positive incentive work better for my kids than negative consequences.

 

You're going to have to figure out what motivates them. Screen time? The chance to earn money? A special trip to the zoo?

 

Most of mine respond well to an incentive chart with some reward they want as the prize. For your kids, they might get a point for every day they can go the whole day without going downstairs or into dad's office. And for every day they don't mess with stuff they shouldn't take.

 

Are they bored? Do they have plenty of space they can roam in and things to do? My kids went crazy when we lived in a small apartment and they were limited to just a few rooms--they want space. They want to climb and jump and explore. Here we have a yard with trees, trampolines, swings, a sand box. That helps.

[caedmyn]

I find that positive incentive work better for my kids than negative consequences.

 

You're going to have to figure out what motivates them. Screen time? The chance to earn money? A special trip to the zoo?

 

Most of mine respond well to an incentive chart with some reward they want as the prize. For your kids, they might get a point for every day they can go the whole day without going downstairs or into dad's office. And for every day they don't mess with stuff they shouldn't take.

 

Are they bored? Do they have plenty of space they can roam in and things to do? My kids went crazy when we lived in a small apartment and they were limited to just a few rooms--they want space. They want to climb and jump and explore. Here we have a yard with trees, trampolines, swings, a sand box. That helps.

 

We have a half acre lot with a fence to climb (not that they're supposed to climb it, but whatever), a couple trees, a swingset, dirt to dig in, a sandbox, etc.  Plus we have an indoor trampoline and tumbling mat.  They're not bored.  They just think they can do whatever they want.

[maize]

We have a half acre lot with a fence to climb (not that they're supposed to climb it, but whatever), a couple trees, a swingset, dirt to dig in, a sandbox, etc. Plus we have an indoor trampoline and tumbling mat. They're not bored. They just think they can do whatever they want.

Am I remembering correctly that some of your kids may had ADHD?

[eternalsummer]

I have a few rambunctious ones and while I don't have brain fog, DH and I both work from home and so I can't supervise them the way I would if watching them were my only occupation :)

 

So here is what we do: we baby-proof, toddler-proof, and kid-proof the house.

 

That flip latch is not working.  They don't work for ours either.  You need a lock to the door, a real lock, with a key.  Tools are in the garage on a high shelf where they couldn't get to them if they wanted to, and office supplies basically don't exist to them except under close supervision: "Now it's crayon time!" "Now it's drawing time!"  "Now it's time to rip construction paper into bits!".  The exception is chalk, which washes off of most surfaces and stays outside anyway (mostly).  If your DH has some office supplies he doesn't want them to get into, they must be kept in the office behind the lock.  

 

DD12 has special things - jewelry, a rock collection, watercolor art pencils, etc.  She has a high shelf in her closet that is inaccessible to shorter people.  We don't own things like stepladders (except in the garage, which is locked) or anything else they could move to stand on to get to the shelf.  We've lived in a few different houses in the last year or two and she always finds somewhere she can keep her stuff up; if necessary we've built a high shelf for her.

 

Kitchen utensils are different.  We keep ours on the counter and this works well in houses where the bottom shelving is mostly drawers or where the kitchen is either part of the main space or can be sort of gated off.  For us, because I'm not cooking 3 meals plus 2+ snacks per day, we let the kids graze for most of the day (I make breakfast and dinner).  So I don't keep them out of the kitchen entirely, but you could do that.  Anyway, you can at least keep them off the kitchen counters (move the stuff to the back and they shouldn't be able to reach from the floor).  If it remains a problem, keep them on top of the fridge.  We keep a lot of stuff on top of the fridge.

[eternalsummer]

When we do want them to learn a new limit, we just focus on that one single limit, and we're super strict about it and work less for several days just to be able to monitor it constantly.  So if the new limit is no running downstairs, we send them upstairs (or to their rooms, or whatever) every time.  It doesn't really matter what the consequence is, as long as it is enforced every single time for a solid week.  That seems to break the habit. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

If you can't watch them more, and they won't obey, you'll have to babyproof the house while you address your health problems and the children's behavior problems. You'll have to lock stuff up better.

 

Have you looked for parenting classes in your area, for parents of children with ADHD? Or perhaps there is a support group where you could learn from other parents.

 

The years have been rolling by, where we who have some experience with poor parental health and/or high needs kids have offered our tips and tricks. You might need some IRL help. Advice from other parents is great. But I remember hitting a stage with my son whose ADHD was the most severe, when I seriously wondered what I was going to do when he grew bigger and stronger than me...I needed outside help, like evaluations and therapists and education.

 

Oooooh. I just remembered: Has your husband allowed evaluations of the children yet? Or have you defied him and got it done on your own?

[Guinevere]

I think Pa Ingalls had the right idea, "Children who can't be trusted must be watched."  He made Laura sit in the house beside Ma for the whole day.  If they can't be trusted to go play, then they will have to find things to do in the room where you are.  

 

Aside from that, I work really hard to make my house very kid friendly.  There are few things my kids could get into because I just make that an impossibility.  I think most of child behavior, just like adult behavior, is born of habit.  Retraining habits are hard, and laying down good ones in the first place is better.  By setting up the environment to make it easy for them to obey, you are gently retraining their negative habits.  I wouldn't be punitive about it, just matter of fact. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Guinevere

[caedmyn]

I think it might help if I focused on one bad habit at a time and just tried to do consistent consequences for that for a week. Childproofing is hard with them because they climb everything and are very good at defeating childproofing, plus it's hard to get DH on board with doing it in the first place.

 

I have intended or tried many times to have them stay right by me where I can watch them but I can't make it work, so I need to stop considering that as a valid option. Doesn't matter how great the idea is if I cannot make it happen.

 

No evaluations. I don't see how they would help with this particular issue anyway. The 6 YO has no diagnosable behavioral issues but still chooses to ignore the rules because he wants to.

[eternalsummer]

Could they defeat a locked door if they didn't have a key?  Do they pick locks? :)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think it might help if I focused on one bad habit at a time and just tried to do consistent consequences for that for a week. Childproofing is hard with them because they climb everything and are very good at defeating childproofing, plus it's hard to get DH on board with doing it in the first place.

 

I have intended or tried many times to have them stay right by me where I can watch them but I can't make it work, so I need to stop considering that as a valid option. Doesn't matter how great the idea is if I cannot make it happen.

 

No evaluations. I don't see how they would help with this particular issue anyway. The 6 YO has no diagnosable behavioral issues but still chooses to ignore the rules because he wants to.

Can't childproof.

Can't keep them within line of vision.

No evaluations.

 

What do you think other families do? Do you think other people's kids just naturally mind? They don't. Their parents have to manipulate the environment - babyproof and create boundaries - and they have to get off their butts, track the kid down, and haul him out of whatever he's into. Over and over, for at least five years per kid. Some children learn quickly, if parents are VERY quick, ever present, and consistent. Others take a little longer, and that is exhausting, but itsnotm going to happen without that constant supervision and predictable response from mom.

 

If we can't do that 24/7 by ourselves, because of whatever factor (and there are many possible factors in people's lives), we have to get some help. For 93% of families, that means hiring babysitters, utilizing preschools and daycares, taking advantage of free public education, and tag teaming as parents when at home with the children. If the kids can't handle environments like school, we get evaluations and look for solutions. If what we are doing isn't working, we have to change.

 

Caedmyn, dh won't help you parent, won't let you childproof anything, won't let you get the children evaluated, won't let you put them in school. But legally, you don't need his permission to put them in school, or to take them to the doctor to ask for some resources and direction. Ask yourself why a woman whose brain fog and general health prevent her from supervising young children, is doing that by herself with no help. Is that what's best for them? Are they safe? Is that what's best for YOU?

[maize]

I will say that as a child with undiagnosed ADHD no amount of consistent consequences made a difference. My brain just didn't think about the consequence at the right time or in the right way to prevent me from impulsively doing the thing I wanted to do in the moment.

 

Immediate positive incentives were better. Also I was quite good about following rules when there was a reason I understood and agreed with.

[caedmyn]

Can't childproof.

Can't keep them within line of vision.

No evaluations.

 

What do you think other families do? Do you think other people's kids just naturally mind? They don't. Their parents have to manipulate the environment - babyproof and create boundaries - and they have to get off their butts, track the kid down, and haul him out of whatever he's into. Over and over, for at least five years per kid. Some children learn quickly, if parents are VERY quick, ever present, and consistent. Others take a little longer, and that is exhausting, but itsnotm going to happen without that constant supervision and predictable response from mom.

 

If we can't do that 24/7 by ourselves, because of whatever factor (and there are many possible factors in people's lives), we have to get some help. For 93% of families, that means hiring babysitters, utilizing preschools and daycares, taking advantage of free public education, and tag teaming as parents when at home with the children. If the kids can't handle environments like school, we get evaluations and look for solutions. If what we are doing isn't working, we have to change.

 

Caedmyn, dh won't help you parent, won't let you childproof anything, won't let you get the children evaluated, won't let you put them in school. But legally, you don't need his permission to put them in school, or to take them to the doctor to ask for some resources and direction. Ask yourself why a woman whose brain fog and general health prevent her from supervising young children, is doing that by herself with no help. Is that what's best for them? Are they safe? Is that what's best for YOU?

 

No, it's not best for anybody.  There are bigger issues than this.  I'm trying to get the bigger issues addressed.  That's all I'm going to say on a public forum.

 

I do think some kids are just flat-out (far) more difficult than others.  The 8 YO would be a very difficult child in anyone's family.  The 6 YO and 4 YO would behave much differently if he weren't always setting bad examples for them.

[maize]

It is certainly true that some children are more difficult to raise than others. This is where evaluations can make a big difference. It was not good for me as a child to always be in trouble over behavior that I had very little control over, attempts to motivate me to change what I couldn't change by choice never helped and I was left wondering why people thought I was trying to be a bad kid.

[eternalsummer]

I have executive function issues and while I was a perfectly behaved kid, I can say that negative consequences, even applied every time and immediately, don't actually help me remember to do the right thing.  (In this case, something like my husband saying, "ugh, you forgot to put on a new roll of toilet paper again!," or a customer saying "ugh, you didn't change the shipping address after I gave you the new one!," etc.)  What it does inspire me to do, instead of remember to do the right thing every time, is set myself up for success by putting the extra toilet paper right next to the toilet and put the address change information in all caps with a lot of exclamation points.  

 

Similarly, I try to set the kids up for success by not having things they shouldn't get into available to be gotten into, for the most part.

 

An 8 yo who still has this issue is more difficult to deal with.  My current 9 yo caused a lot of disasters when he was 6 but has mostly grown out of it.  At that point it's really just a matter of physicality - an 8 yo is taller and more capable of climbing things and undoing childproofing and thinking up disasters than a 6 yo is.  I feel for you.

[bolt.]

I can totally see why you feel out of options (hugs)!

 

It's kind of happening that you are out of options -- because you aren't implementing the options that tend to work, and you are hoping there's some other possibility that will simplify the situation for you.

 

I want to tell you that it isn't going to be "consequences". If you can't get them to accept normal house rules, you definitely won't be able to implement extra consequences. Consequences are harder to implement than consistent limits.

 

It seems to me if you solved the pet-peeve problem around them wandering off with household objects and not bringing them back, it would mean a lot to you.

 

In that case, I suggest that you hold a daily scavenger hunt with prizes -- so that they bring the things back and replace them where they go.

 

I honestly don't think children should be taught that the objects in the house aren't theirs, and that only the toys are theirs. I also don't think they should be kept out of their own bedrooms -- if they actually 'have no reason to go there' they wouldn't go there. In reality, they do have a reason to go there, and I think you should allow it.

 

Dad's office should be more securely locked (like, with a key) and you could place things that legitimately aren't for kids in there (knives, sharpies, delicate electronics) and just keep them there.

 

In parenting, "You can't expect what you don't inspect." -- that means that if you are limited in your ability to know when they have broken a rule, and if you are unable to stop them from breaking a rule... it just can't be a rule. They don't have the responsibility of supervising themselves: that job isn't a kid's job, and it's developmentally impossible.

 

If you aren't able to help structure and supervise their behaviour, you need to give them more slack -- not look for more consequences to help motivate them to not need structure, supervision or support from you. They aren't meant to do that sort of thing without help.

 

I don't mean to shame you. I know that people just can't do what they can't do -- and your health and abilities are very real barriers for you. There are things realities in life, and nobody's fault. I'm just trying to add to that that your children also are "people" who "can't do what they can't do." -- They can't just become better at being good kids because it would solve your family's challenges. It's not that they wouldn't if they could! It's that they are kids, and it's not something they are capable of.

Edited October 8, 2017 by bolt.

[Amy in NH]

I think Pa Ingalls had the right idea, "Children who can't be trusted must be watched." He made Laura sit in the house beside Ma for the whole day. If they can't be trusted to go play, then they will have to find things to do in the room where you are.

 

Aside from that, I work really hard to make my house very kid friendly. There are few things my kids could get into because I just make that an impossibility. I think most of child behavior, just like adult behavior, is born of habit. Retraining habits are hard, and laying down good ones in the first place is better. By setting up the environment to make it easy for them to obey, you are gently retraining their negative habits. I wouldn't be punitive about it, just matter of fact.

This. Tomato stake them. You need to watch them all the time so you can make immediate corrections. Parenting is hard work.

 

You might want to check out Joanne's Get Off Your Butt Parenting website. http://www.joanneketch.com/GetOffYourButtParenting.en.html

[PeterPan]

I would dose every suspected ADHD dc with a small dose of caffeine per charts you can find online and begin morning compliance drills. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[maize]

No evaluations. I don't see how they would help with this particular issue anyway. The 6 YO has no diagnosable behavioral issues but still chooses to ignore the rules because he wants to.

This may or may not be true--since you haven't done evaluations you don't know. The adults in my life all thought I just didn't care to follow rules and directions.

 

Parenting is hard, and sometimes life is just hard. I have multiple children with anxiety and ADHD and probably other stuff. I have a husband with chronic mental health struggles who is not able to contribute much at home. I have ADHD and brain fog myself.

 

I don't have any easy answers, I muddle through and do what I can. That has included at times hiring a mother's helper, putting a child in school, putting a child on medication, putting myself on medication, and just letting a lot of things go.

 

I will say that very little would happen in my household if I waited for my husband to contribute or to give his permission. Our functioning arrangement is basically that he goes to work and earns the family income, and sometimes watches the baby or takes the kids somewhere when he is home. I do pretty much everything else, or make arrangements for someone else to do it if I can't. That is what works given the parameters of our lives.

Edited October 8, 2017 by maize

[Guinevere]

I would dose every suspected ADHD dc with a small dose of caffeine per charts you can find online and begin morning compliance drills.

What are compliance drills?

[PeterPan]

What are compliance drills?

 

Google it for videos. It can look really overt like therapy, or it can be really sneaky, like Granny making cookies and getting the kid to bring things. In any case, the effect is to get it in their brains that they're connected, that they're supposed to be complying, and get some momentum on that. 

 

It's what we do with my ds to get him snapping, but we work really hard to make it look kind of naturalistic and logical, like he's just helping. The task has to be within reach, and it's smart to give the command for something he's literally about to do already. It gives you a chance to build in praise too, which can be really helpful. Main thing is it gives you a way to change the dynamic with a given dc in a small amount of time. 

 

I'm not saying do it one time and it solves everything. I'm saying every day, every kid. School work also involves compliance. I would work with the most problematic or youngest children first and make sure they're getting some work that involves straight compliance. With my ds, we use printable worksheets like word searches, mazes, daily warm-up math, things with multiple choice or cut and paste, sequencing, anything that he can be told to do and just do.

Edited October 8, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[rebbyribs]

I will say that very little would happen in my household if I waited for my husband to contribute or to give his permission. Our functioning arrangement is basically that he goes to work and earns the family income, and sometimes watches the baby or takes the kids somewhere when he is home. I do pretty much everything else, or make arrangements for someone else to do it if I can't. That is what works given the parameters of our lives.

 

I've seen you say this before, and I know my family's situation is similar and I need to do this.  But HOW do you manage?  I just go through cycles of having it together for a while, getting exhausted and burnt out, and then feeling angry with my husband. How do you take care of a big family in a way that doesn't completely wear you out?  How do you realize when you're doing "too much" before you get exhausted and resentful?  What do you dial back on when you've taken on too much? 

[lllll]

nm

Edited October 16, 2017 by lllllll

[Jean in Newcastle]

You can't give consequences for things that haven't been explicitly taught and practiced.  Well, you can, but I can't see that resulting in anything other than resentment and failure.  I'm a bit unclear whether things have been explicitly taught since it appears that the children spend quite a bit of time unsupervised.  I understand low stamina and brain fog very well but during those young years I supervised them from the couch while they played with their toys.  If they can't stay in the kitchen with you, then you need to go where they are.  During meal preparation times they can be kept busy in the kitchen setting the table, mashing potatoes, peeling carrots etc.  It isn't easy but kids need direct parenting at these ages. 

[kroe1]

I see you have 5 young children including the newborn. You do not have time to police their behavior, so I doubt you would have time to police the consequences. I do not see how anyone would and try and work, too.

 

My kids did better with things that were not off limits. For example, if I didn’t want the toddler messing with the new stereo, it was better if I taught him how to use it. If I kept asking him to turn it on for me, he didn’t want to play with it anymore. It became a “choreâ€. In regards to kitchen utensils going outside, I certainly ran into that. I thought that was just boys being boys. It is why I had mismatched utensils for 35 years of my adult life.

 

Bottom line, all punishments have to be supervised. One cannot ground a kid if the Mom stays in the basement doing her job all day, for example. I mean, one can do it, but, then there’s just one more thing to have to punish later when the kid goes outside anyway because he thinks he won’t get caught. Personally, I think you would be better off buying cheap stuff that is easily replaceable and keeping your kids safe as best you can.

[eternalsummer]

minniewannabe, the OP doesn't work from home; I do.  And I don't work in the basement, hah.

[maize]

I've seen you say this before, and I know my family's situation is similar and I need to do this.  But HOW do you manage?  I just go through cycles of having it together for a while, getting exhausted and burnt out, and then feeling angry with my husband. How do you take care of a big family in a way that doesn't completely wear you out?  How do you realize when you're doing "too much" before you get exhausted and resentful?  What do you dial back on when you've taken on too much? 

 

I wish I had a magic formula!

 

As far as having it together, I really don't. Ever. I feel like I am perpetually in triage mode, determining which responsibilities to neglect today in favor of more critical ones. 

 

Help with house work in the most critical thing for me, because I am simply not capable of doing it all (and that includes not being capable of sufficiently directing and motivating and staying on top of my kids to do what should be their share). I currently have someone come in twice a week to clean the main living areas of the house and that is about the minimum I can get by with. 

 

As far as not being resentful goes, I don't know. There certainly have been times when I have felt resentful. It helps that I see life within a theological framework that views mortality as a time of intentional trial and testing--we're here on earth in order to experience challenges and learn and grow. Everyone is going to have trials, this just happens to be one of ours--and when it comes to mental illness as a trial I have to say that hard as being married to someone with mental illness is it is really dh who has the harder part. 

 

I also have felt that, while God may not take away a trial from us, he does often give us the strength to carry it.

 

But yeah, most days I feel like I am just dog paddling as fast as I can in order to keep my nose above water  :willy_nilly:

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:

 

OP, you have been dealing with a lot for a very long time with little support.  You have also said in the past that you have some difficulties relating to/enjoying your kids on a day to day basis once they are no longer babies and as far as I remember you are also something of an introvert.  Being around kids for extended periods of time can be draining for you.  This is a hard place to be.  Frankly, even extroverts that love elementary aged kids (especially their own) can get drained because of always having to be "on". 

 

I am fairly extroverted by nature.  I love kids.  I adore my own kids.  I only have 2.  They both have learning issues that make academics a challenge.  Thankfully we have been at the remediation process quite a while so they can read independently and write with some scaffolding but relatively independently for many things and they can do a lot of math relatively independently.  And because they are older they operate more independently than they did when they were younger (by a long shot) for nearly everything else, too (such as chores and keeping themselves occupied, etc.).  I enjoy my time with them, we have a lot of laughs, I share common interests with both of them that we really enjoy pursuing, etc. 

 

And you know what?  I STILL get drained having to always be "on".  Homeschooling can be awesome but it can also be exhausting.  It isn't just the academics.  It is being the parent of kids with strong personalities all.the.time.  These are not introverted kids that sit reading a book quietly in a corner. Having all the responsibility on my shoulders and never having a true, extended break to do something OTHER than be a parent and a facilitator of learning for these wonderful but exhausting kids can be hard at times.  And when you have no support from a spouse to help get through it all, that can be emotionally as well as physically draining.  I love DH but he is virtually no help at all with regards to the kids.  That is just our reality.  At least I appear to have more control over our choices and options.  I don't get the idea that you feel you have any.  

 

Your situation is even more challenging.  By a LOT.  I feel for you.  I read your posts and I get so tired just thinking about what you face daily.

 

Reality is, you have a whole house full of kids that are young.  They all need you to be encouraging, supportive, provide lots of structure without being stifling, provide lots of guidance and targeted training in life skills and be willing/have the time/have the energy to back up that life skills training with a lot of positive reinforcement so those life skills get ingrained.  They need those things daily.  Hourly.  Not just once in a while.  

 

And you are homeschooling.  Homeschooling kids that have almost certainly got learning challenges but no evaluations so you don't really know how those learning challenges break down for each individual child.  You have varying ages and needs and stages and you have to be teaching and supporting and scaffolding and you have kids who struggle HARD to stay focused and not be impulsive.  Their brains operate differently from yours.

 

And you have a baby to take care of.  Babies by themselves, while wonderful, can be really draining physically and emotionally and mentally.  

 

And your husband apparently has a ton of don'ts for his household but has little to do with the actual day to day operation of your family nor does he seem to give you much leeway for choices.  He essentially operates like a dictator?  And you have little power but all the responsibility?

 

And if I recall correctly your location is fairly isolated?  Not in a city that would have lots of options for ways to get some help?

 

In other words, you are stuck in a difficult dynamic with no easy way to fix it AND YOU HAVE NO REAL CONSISTENT DOWN TIME TO JUST BE YOU WITHOUT BEING MOM. EVER.

 

Adding in more consequences is not going to help your situation.  Additional consequences is not the solution.  Changing the existing overall dynamic is the only way this gets better.  I don't know how else improvement might occur.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

 

 

 

[aaplank]

Parenting with Love and Logic is a book I'd recommend. It talks about logical consequences. For example, if your children are taking other's property without permission, than the natural, logical consequence would be to take ine of their possessions and not give it back, until they show some responsibility in that area. If they destroy someone else's property they should be expected to repay using their own money, replace it with of their own items, or doing extra chores to pay off the debt.

[freesia]

It is time to get some help.  Please, please take them to the doctor and get them evaluated. Please consider public school.  I can't imagine that school is getting done the way you want it to with brain fog, a baby and 3 kids who don't mind.  It will be okay.  It is an option, really. Even if it doesn't feel like one.

[maize]

Parenting with Love and Logic is a book I'd recommend. It talks about logical consequences. For example, if your children are taking other's property without permission, than the natural, logical consequence would be to take ine of their possessions and not give it back, until they show some responsibility in that area. If they destroy someone else's property they should be expected to repay using their own money, replace it with of their own items, or doing extra chores to pay off the debt.

The problem with this approach is that it requires excellent reasoning and executive functioning skills on the part of the child.

 

It does not work with a child with ADHD or other executive functioning deficit. I also do not think it is developmentally appropriate for most young children--it relies too heavily on the prefrontal cortex.

[StephanieZ]

Put an alarm with a key code on the doors to areas that are unsafe for them to enter (or disastrous from a business or other standpoint). Only you and dh know the code. It can be a door lock (I have ones on several doors at home, work, and dd's college home. About $100 and AWESOME) or simply an alarm if you'd rather just have it be more of an honor system and give you the chance to come kick some butt. Problem solved. 

 

Supervision. Supervision. Supervision. Activity. Activity. Activity.

 

If there's one truth about dogs and boys . . . it's "a tired dog is a good dog" . . . same goes for boys (so long as you can let them chill). 

 

 

[Tanaqui]

Consequences don't work so well for ADHD. I'm not convinced they work so well for ANY child of the given age range, actually, though they can be part of an effective parenting method.

 

You need to childproof. I don't know why your husband is averse to this, but there need to be actual key locks on the things the kids are not allowed access to, and the keys stay with the people who ARE allowed access to those things. (I'd also suggest that you get them their own el cheapo tools and supplies to use, which is easier than reminding them not to take yours.)

[Melissa in Australia]

Hugs

 

I always feel for you, you try so hard.

 

Hugs

[Catwoman]

Caedmyn, what WILL you husband allow you to do as far as working with the kids??  And I'm not being remotely snarky.  I'm asking because it would help to know what the parameters are so we can work within those here to try to help you help your kids.  I think we genuinely want to help.  But, not knowing what the limits are, it's hard to make suggestions.  And it's probably frustrating for you when we keep making suggestions for things you already know your dh won't agree to, etc.

 

:grouphug:

 

I still can't figure out why the dh is the one who gets to make all of the decisions about the household and the children when it appears that he does so little to help Caedmyn.

 

Caedmyn, is there a reason why you won't stand up to your husband? It sounds like you're not even standing up to your own children and are letting them run the household.

[aaplank]

The problem with this approach is that it requires excellent reasoning and executive functioning skills on the part of the child.

 

It does not work with a child with ADHD or other executive functioning deficit. I also do not think it is developmentally appropriate for most young children--it relies too heavily on the prefrontal cortex.

I completely disagree. I have used this approach with kids with ADHD and it works wonders because the consequences make sense. They are not arbitrary, but are directly related to the infraction.

 

I also have a special ed degree and taught in a private school that remediate learning difficulties. I used these techniques as part of my classroom discipline and also found it to be the most helpful approach. The prefrontal cortex is very well served when implementing these strategies.

Edited October 9, 2017 by aaplank

[desertstrawberry5]

The problem with this approach is that it requires excellent reasoning and executive functioning skills on the part of the child.

 

It does not work with a child with ADHD or other executive functioning deficit. I also do not think it is developmentally appropriate for most young children--it relies too heavily on the prefrontal cortex.

I disagree. I have used this method  (more or less, this is my natural approach to parenting) successfully with all of my children, including one with SPD, one with ASD/ADHD, and one who is just downright defiant from age 1 forward. There is a lot of front loading and anticipation on the part of the parent, particularly in the early years. It can be hard, especially when your brain is fatigued. But it 100% works. 

[desertstrawberry5]

Caedmyn, you have all of my sympathy. All of it. I lived this for two years. It was awful. 

I can;t really give you any advice that hasn't already been given. I understand when you cannot get it together. But you can only do what you can do. 

D did put a lock on his office door. We ended up moving rooms to split up the kids and put his desk in our bedroom, removed most electronic devices, banned the kids from the tv, computer and video games. I have them tomato staked right now, on the floor next to me. 

I did briefly put two in school. In retrospect, I should have sent them longer. I wanted them home, and I wanted it to work, but I really wasn't ready. 

I now have childcare once a week. It's fun for them, and gives me a bit of a break to get things done. 

I had to ease up a LOT on my expectations. My inclination is to remove privileges, lock them down, tighten the reins. But we got to the point when there was nothing more to take away. There was no slack left to pull. I was policing them 100% of the time and we all hated it. Now, I give them more freedom, more permission to do things, and I have to make things I don't want them to have unavailable, everything else is fair game. 

Deep breaths. Do what you can. Be gentle with yourself and with your children. Give them extra hugs. Keep them so close. Wrap yourselves in love. Give them tasks to help each other and to help you. Let them take over any small chores that they are capable of doing. 

Big hugs and good luck. This time will pass. 

[MedicMom]

I think I get it.

My DH is the same way in a lot of ways. He really seems to think that children should just behave. They should just not touch the glass bells my grandmother gave me. They should just do their chores without whining. And their schoolwork and anything else. He literally seems to have this disconnect when I try to explain to him that not only do kids have to be taught, we also have two children with special needs. My oldest is not going to just be flexible and adaptable to an ever changing schedule, even if that's what daddy's lifestyle requires. We fight about this constantly and I am exhausted. My husband is also the youngest of two(whereas I am the oldest of 8) and grew up in a church where children were blanket trained, harsh corporal punishment as small children, and pretty much expected to be seen and not heard. His complete lack of understanding kids is something I've given up trying to change.

 

It may be TMI, but I'm so tired of fighting with him over the kids that I've considered drastic measures. He expects me to work, finish my master's degree, homeschool and take care of the bulk of child raising. It's not that he's bad or a bad husband, he just is stuck in a disconnect between what he expects and what is reality.

 

So I get it.

Frankly, it's not good for my marriage, but I am at the point where I simply tell him how it is. Things will be childproofed. I had my oldest evaluated despite his father's wishes. I have the youngest in speech therapy despite the fact that my husband thinks it's stupid and worthless.(never mind the youngest is two and a half and speaks on the level of a twelve month old). My middle child is in school because I need it and it's best for her. No, my husband doesn't like any of this, but at the end of the day, the kids are the priority. And while I know that flies in the face of every marriage book ever written, these kids have only one shot at a good childhood and growing up healthy.

[katilac]

This has been going on for a really long time, yeah? 

 

I'd call for evaluations.

 

I'd put the oldest 3 in school, the oldest 4 if you have free preschool. 

 

If you are mostly in the kitchen/dining area, they need to be mostly in the kitchen dining area, with time blocked out each day to supervise them outside. Toys can be carried downstairs and back up again. I will say that most kids that age do not have a preference for playing by themselves on a different floor. The 11-yr-old maybe, but my kids were quite literally underfoot most of the time when they were younger. 

 

Mostly, I would call for evaluations so you can know if you are dealing with specific issues. You cannot say they have no diagnosable issues, that is why you bring them for an evaluation. The waiting process can take a while, depending on your area. 

 

Meanwhile, I would put them in school. They will either comply fairly well, confirming your stance that they wont' get a dx, or the school will be calling for evaluations themselves, lickety-split. 

 

I don't think there's a magical consequence that is going to solve this. You've been trying for years. You need outside eyes and input, imo, an objective evaluation. 

[Tanaqui]

I want to point something out here. Many people here are telling you to put the kids in school. They told you this on previous threads.

This is a homeschooling forum. If this many people are saying "Seriously, enroll them in school", people who have great experience with homeschooling, people who have experience homeschooling children with ADHD and other learning disabilities, then you should take it seriously. Your husband doesn't have to agree. You can put them in without consulting him.

[lllll]

nm

Edited October 16, 2017 by lllllll

[caedmyn]

I don't want them in public school. I've thought about a private school but for a number of reasons I don't think that would actually make things any easier. School is getting done, that's not an issue. And no, I can't put them in school without his agreement. He'd just pull them out and there'd be massive emotional reprisals to deal with besides.

[Catwoman]

I don't want them in public school. I've thought about a private school but for a number of reasons I don't think that would actually make things any easier. School is getting done, that's not an issue. And no, I can't put them in school without his agreement. He'd just pull them out and there'd be massive emotional reprisals to deal with besides.

Why do you keep tolerating your husband's behavior? I can't understand why you seem to keep allowing yourself to be taken advantage of, and why you let your husband make all of the decisions -- even regarding things that have nothing to do with him. It seems like he decides on everything, even when it's things that involve you doing all of the work.

 

Can you get some counseling to help you learn how to stand up for yourself? I feel so badly for you, but I also think you are causing a lot of your own problems by not being able to advocate for yourself. (I'm not blaming you for it because it's not your fault that your husband seems to have a very strong personality and you seem to be a people pleaser -- I just want you to get the skills you need to be able to stand up to him; otherwise, nothing will change and I hate to see you so unhappy and overwhelmed.)

[OrganicJen]

I know it can be frustrating to have to make certain changes in your life and home because of children sometimes, but the fact is that sometimes you just have to do it.  It's not as convenient for us to have certain doors locked and baby gates up and certain things put away in locked locations that make it more of a pain for us to get to when we want them, but we do it because if we don't then we can't leave the little one out of our sight for a second.  Even as it is we still supervise him all the time but at least with the childproofing we've done I can cook while the little one is a few feet away and I don't have to keep my eyes on him every second now, and I know if he gets ahead of me running toward a certain room that since the door is locked he can't actually get in that room and knock the giant cactus on top of himself.  We have even had to make changes we didn't want to make in our home because of our older special needs child. Sometimes children don't fit into our preconceived image of how we want our life with children to be and we end up having to make changes to accommodate them that we may not like, such as childproofing and some of the other suggestions that have been made.  It would be ideal to be able to teach every child to adhere to your rules and remain within the areas they are allowed to go etc., but that in itself takes time and energy in order to consistently follow through on the consequences, and when things are hectic and out of control the first step may be to physically limit where they can go and what they can get to with better childproofing.