State guardianship for the elderly . New Yorker article details a nightmare

[Laurie4b]

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights

 

I am sure that this varies by state. So very scary. Another thing to research before you decide where to move for retirement. 

 

Anyone have any experience with this? 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Well, that's horrifying!  I'll probably never sleep again.

[goldberry]

That's horrible!  How incredibly sad for those families!  Someone who could do that is flat out evil.  Did you catch this part?

 

In the wake of Parks’s indictment, no judges have lost their jobs. Norheim was transferred from guardianship court to dependency court, where he now oversees cases involving abused and neglected children. 

[kiana]

My God -- not only the people directly involved, but the collusion of all of the medical and legal people involved ... This is so repulsive. I'm just about sick to my stomach. 

[MBM]

Wow. Something should be done. I'm glad this is getting exposure.

[alisoncooks]

That was absolutely terrifying and (literally) nauseated me.

[Kalmia]

This needs to stop. Taking a video course and being suddenly considered a guardian by the state? You have to be kidding. I am glad this article got out there. People need to keep a close eye on all the elders in their lives. There are sick people out there ready to prey upon them. My faith in humanity, already darn thin, becomes more tattered every day.

[MinivanMom]

There is so much disturbing stuff in that article that I don't even know what to say. What happened to due process and next-of-kin?! Think of the amount of collusion that had to go on between the court, the guardians, medical personnel, and nursing homes. Holy cow!

 

And I can't believe the judge has been transferred to work dependency court with abused & neglected children. He shouldn't be allowed near anything involving families. How did none of these judges get removed from the bench?

[Tasha]

This was absolutely terrifying! My parents are still healthy and independent - but they are at age where I know that one accident could change that. I’m just horrified.

[MercyA]

Unbelievable. I have no words.  :(

[ErinE]

That's horrible!  How incredibly sad for those families!  Someone who could do that is flat out evil.  Did you catch this part?

 

In the wake of Parks’s indictment, no judges have lost their jobs. Norheim was transferred from guardianship court to dependency court, where he now oversees cases involving abused and neglected children. 

 

That was frightening. The entire article was scary, but who thinks: well, this judge abused his power over the powerless elderly, let's transfer him to oversee kids.

 

A relative of mine was removed from her adult child's care for abuse, but the rest of the family never lost physical access to her. My heart was racing for the children begging to see their parents, not knowing if they were well or even alive.

[ashfern]

:crying:  That's crazy!

[Scarlett]

I just read that.  Horrifying. Read all the way to the end because there was a tiny bit of good ending.

 

But the overall problem is just insanity.

[Scarlett]

That was frightening. The entire article was scary, but who thinks: well, this judge abused his power over the powerless elderly, let's transfer him to oversee kids.

 

A relative of mine was removed from her adult child's care for abuse, but the rest of the family never lost physical access to her. My heart was racing for the children begging to see their parents, not knowing if they were well or even alive.

 

 

I was sick to my stomach the entire time I was reading it.

 

I loved the woman who just came and got her dad and took him back to CA with her.

[Guest]

The preying is not only a concern against our elderly loved ones, but also against our children with special needs once they reach the magical age of 18. (ETA: ESPECIALLY if your child is being set up with assets for his/her long term care.) It is a real fear.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Kinsa

[StephanieZ]

I can't read it all. It's too upsetting. I tried, but it's just too horrifying. I can't do it. I've read these sorts of stories years ago, too. It's not new. It's not unknown. It's pure, unadulterated evil. 

 

I will recommend that each and every one of you get excellent estate documents in place. My mom had excellent documents, and that prevented her from being a victim of any such scam. She named her financial (general) POAs, her health care proxy, etc. It was all spelled out, with successors in case one person declined or died or whatever. These things protect you. 

 

Dh and I have our documents in place, too. We need to update them, but they are there. 

 

For starters, you need a durable power of attorney (financial/legal) and a health care proxy/POA (health care decisions including **WHERE YOU LIVE** as in getting placed in a facility) in addition to your will. You need to designate beneficiaries and POAs with your various financial institutions, etc. You need an estate attorney to guide you properly, and you need to update your documents every 5-10 years or when your circumstances change (someone named in your documents dies or is otherwise no longer appropriate, you have another kid, etc.)

 

Here is a good article about what one must do to avoid this sort of disaster. 

 

https://www.thebalance.com/how-to-avoid-guardianship-or-conservatorship-3505428

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Man put a warning on this. That was traumatizing to read. Completely horrifying abuse and no oversight.

 

I understand family members can be abusivr and greedy, but there has to be s better system of checks and balances for the state than this. Robbing people blind and having them declared incompetent while frittering away their estates and abusing them in medical facilities is completely beyond the pale. That Norheim got moved to dependency court is also a travesty, after presiding over so many cases with so little wisdom. The most vulnerable deserve better counsel and more due process than this.

 

It makes me want to take a shower :(

[Scarlett]

Man put a warning on this. That was traumatizing to read. Completely horrifying abuse and no oversight.

 

I understand family members can be abusivr and greedy, but there has to be s better system of checks and balances for the state than this. Robbing people blind and having them declared incompetent while frittering away their estates and abusing them in medical facilities is completely beyond the pale. That Norheim got moved to dependency court is also a travesty, after presiding over so many cases with so little wisdom. The most vulnerable deserve better counsel and more due process than this.

 

It makes me want to take a shower :(

 

 

Not to mention keeping their families from them.  

[Anne]

I could hardly bear to read that....

 

so sickening

[AnneBlessedx4]

Wow. Horrifying is right.

[Rebel Yell]

I can't read it all. It's too upsetting. I tried, but it's just too horrifying. I can't do it. I've read these sorts of stories years ago, too. It's not new. It's not unknown. It's pure, unadulterated evil.

 

I will recommend that each and every one of you get excellent estate documents in place. My mom had excellent documents, and that prevented her from being a victim of any such scam. She named her financial (general) POAs, her health care proxy, etc. It was all spelled out, with successors in case one person declined or died or whatever. These things protect you.

 

Dh and I have our documents in place, too. We need to update them, but they are there.

 

For starters, you need a durable power of attorney (financial/legal) and a health care proxy/POA (health care decisions including **WHERE YOU LIVE** as in getting placed in a facility) in addition to your will. You need to designate beneficiaries and POAs with your various financial institutions, etc. You need an estate attorney to guide you properly, and you need to update your documents every 5-10 years or when your circumstances change (someone named in your documents dies or is otherwise no longer appropriate, you have another kid, etc.)

 

Here is a good article about what one must do to avoid this sort of disaster.

 

https://www.thebalance.com/how-to-avoid-guardianship-or-conservatorship-3505428

Would that actually help in a state like Nevada? Those people had state guardians assigned when they were reasonably healthy and functional due to shady signatures of doctors declaring them incompetent or in need of guardians. And what good would a will do if they're still alive and the guardian sold off all of their stuff?

 

Scary. I'm almost glad we have less than zero assets so we're unlikely to be in danger of this :(

[Pawz4me]

I read that early this morning and maybe I wasn't awake enough to comprehend it fully (and maybe the author intentionally chose certain stories to write about), but I was struck with how passive everyone seemed. Even the people who had kids who seemed to be very present in their lives. My parents are deceased, but had something like that happened to them I would have been at an attorney's office ASAP. A really, really good attorney. 

[Corraleno]

Last May, two days after the kids and I arrived home from a wonderful Lukeion trip, there was a knock on my door at 7:45 AM. Annoyed and severely jet-lagged, I opened the door and was confronted by a woman who asked if I was the niece of Bob [XXXX]. When I said I was, she announced that I had been reported for elder abuse, that she would be his guardian from now on, and that I needed to turn over all his legal and financial documents along with info on all bank accounts and assets.
 
I was totally stunned. I told her that I'd been looking after him for more than 20 years, he lived in an assisted living facility 1 mile from my house, he spent time with my family every week, he had never EVER been abused in any way, and I would not give her any information or documents until I spoke to a lawyer. Two hours later the mailman handed me a registered letter from the assisted living place saying that since I had "refused to return their phone calls for the last two weeks concerning Bob's medical issues, they had been forced to notify Protective Services that he was being neglected."
 
I think there was fire coming out of my nostrils when I went flying into the assisted living place and demanded to speak to the care manager. I explained that although I'd been out of the country for two weeks, which was why I hadn't been in to see him, I had my phone with me and had not received any calls or messages from them. Oh, they were calling my old number, that I had already asked them to change TWICE, the second time in writing??? I asked why they didn't email me when they didn't get a response, and the manager said she just assumed that the email they had on record, from 3 years earlier when I'd first applied to bring Bob there, was a work email from my previous state, so she figured it wasn't current — without even trying it. (It was never a work email and yes it was current.) The medical crisis that had "forced" them to report me for neglect was that his blood pressure had spiked and he was complaining of dizziness, so the care manager had to take him to the doctor herself.
 
I was beyond livid. I told them that I had both general and healthcare POA for him, I had a lawyer on speed-dial, I could get ten different people, including his primary care doctor, to write letters stating that I had never ever neglected him, and that unless they called Protective Services and closed the case immediately, he would be moving out that afternoon. They closed the case, and a month later that particular care manager left.

We're talking about a developmentally-disabled 87 year old, who was never married or had children, whose expenses are paid by a trust set up by his mother before she died. At the time I thought the whole debacle was the result of incompetence, not malice, but after reading that article, I'm wondering if he might actually have been targeted.  :glare: 
 
My heart aches for all the people whose relatives were stolen from them, and whose attempts to find justice were thwarted by corruption in every area at every level. The depravity of people who prey on the elderly is just sickening.

[Scarlett]

Last May, two days after the kids and I arrived home from a wonderful Lukeion trip, there was a knock on my door at 7:45 AM. Annoyed and severely jet-lagged, I opened the door and was confronted by a woman who asked if I was the niece of Bob [XXXX]. When I said I was, she announced that I had been reported for elder abuse, that she would be his guardian from now on, and that I needed to turn over all his legal and financial documents along with info on all bank accounts and assets.

 

I was totally stunned. I told her that I'd been looking after him for more than 20 years, he lived in an assisted living facility 1 mile from my house, he spent time with my family every week, he had never EVER been abused in any way, and I would not give her any information or documents until I spoke to a lawyer. Two hours later the mailman handed me a registered letter from the assisted living place saying that since I had "refused to return their phone calls for the last two weeks concerning Bob's medical issues, they had been forced to notify Protective Services that he was being neglected."

 

I think there was fire coming out of my nostrils when I went flying into the assisted living place and demanded to speak to the care manager. I explained that although I'd been out of the country for two weeks, which was why I hadn't been in to see him, I had my phone with me and had not received any calls or messages from them. Oh, they were calling my old number, that I had already asked them to change TWICE, the second time in writing??? I asked why they didn't email me when they didn't get a response, and the manager said she just assumed that the email they had on record, from 3 years earlier when I'd first applied to bring Bob there, was a work email from my previous state, so she figured it wasn't current — without even trying it. (It was never a work email and yes it was current.) The medical crisis that had "forced" them to report me for neglect was that his blood pressure had spiked and he was complaining of dizziness, so the care manager had to take him to the doctor herself.

 

I was beyond livid. I told them that I had both general and healthcare POA for him, I had a lawyer on speed-dial, I could get ten different people, including his primary care doctor, to write letters stating that I had never ever neglected him, and that unless they called Protective Services and closed the case immediately, he would be moving out that afternoon. They closed the case, and a month later that particular care manager left.

 

We're talking about a developmentally-disabled 87 year old, who was never married or had children, whose expenses are paid by a trust set up by his mother before she died. At the time I thought the whole debacle was the result of incompetence, not malice, but after reading that article, I'm wondering if he might actually have been targeted.  :glare: 

 

My heart aches for all the people whose relatives were stolen from them, and whose attempts to find justice were thwarted by corruption in every area at every level. The depravity of people who prey on the elderly is just sickening.

 

 

Oh my WORD!!!  That is so scary and sickening and horrifying.  

[Reefgazer]

I got a slight whiff of this when my dad was hospitalized last summer.  No one will speak out anymore for fear of their jobs, even though I had a few medical personel quietly shake their heads or pull me aside when no one else was looking to confirm what I saw.

My God -- not only the people directly involved, but the collusion of all of the medical and legal people involved ... This is so repulsive. I'm just about sick to my stomach. 

 

[goldberry]

 At the time I thought the whole debacle was the result of incompetence, not malice, but after reading that article, I'm wondering if he might actually have been targeted.  :glare:

 

Seriously!  What I got from reading the story is that it wouldn't have been able to take place without collusion from multiple parties.  There was the quote about a doctor "not wanting to play along"?  So there was a judge, the guardian, doctors, as well as nursing homes. It seemed if the nursing home places questioned anything, they were threatened with loss of patients/income.  Disgusting from all parties!

 

(edited because "nursing homes" is better than "nursing home places" doh!)

Edited October 4, 2017 by goldberry

[alisoncooks]

What is especially horrifying for me: the couple the article primarily focused on, they were perfectly capable of self-care. They had loving children who were in contact with them regularly. They had a home and assets and hobbies. After the events in the article, they had no home, no assets, and had suffered physically. They were robbed of their "golden years."

 

This article made me sooo angry...

[EMS83]

I can't finish that right now.   :cursing:

[Guest]

Correlano, your relative was lucky to have you fighting for him. :grouphug:

[Scarlett]

Correlano, your relative was lucky to have you fighting for him. :grouphug:

 

 

QFT.

 

I am glad I wasn't the only one so upset by the article.  I was having a physical reaction to it..  I only finished it because I was hopeful there was a some sort of good ending.  

[Corraleno]

Would that actually help in a state like Nevada? Those people had state guardians assigned when they were reasonably healthy and functional due to shady signatures of doctors declaring them incompetent or in need of guardians. And what good would a will do if they're still alive and the guardian sold off all of their stuff?

 

I would think anyone attempting to get guardianship over someone who already had a POA in place would have to prove not only that the elderly person was incompetent, but also that the assigned POA was not acting in the person's best interests and should be replaced. Obviously the two creeps in the article used that exact argument to dismiss the interests of relatives (they were "aggressive," or "hysterical," were not able to make "rational" decisions about healthcare, etc.) but it didn't seem as if any of those relatives had legal standing as POAs. I would think that someone with legal POA for an elderly person would at least have the right to be in court to contest having their powers stripped.

 

Now that my oldest is no longer a minor and can be legally designated as POA/executor/successor trustee, I'm in the process of setting up a living trust for the house, bank accounts, and most of my possessions. So that article also makes me wonder whether there's any possibility that a state appointed guardian could not only overrule DS having POA for me, but also get access to a trust that lists DS as successor trustee if I die or become incompetent.

 

Those are really important questions that I will be asking a lawyer in the next couple of weeks.

[Guest]

Correlano!!

 

This is so so messed up, scary, and heart breaking!

[Scarlett]

 

I would think anyone attempting to get guardianship over someone who already had a POA in place would have to prove not only that the elderly person was incompetent, but also that the assigned POA was not acting in the person's best interests and should be replaced. Obviously the two creeps in the article used that exact argument to dismiss the interests of relatives (they were "aggressive," or "hysterical," were not able to make "rational" decisions about healthcare, etc.) but it didn't seem as if any of those relatives had legal standing as POAs. I would think that someone with legal POA for an elderly person would at least have the right to be in court to contest having their powers stripped.

 

Now that my oldest is no longer a minor and can be legally designated as POA/executor/successor trustee, I'm in the process of setting up a living trust for the house, bank accounts, and most of my possessions. So that article also makes me wonder whether there's any possibility that a state appointed guardian could not only overrule DS having POA for me, but also get access to a trust that lists DS as successor trustee if I die or become incompetent.

 

Those are really important questions that I will be asking a lawyer in the next couple of weeks.

 

 

Don't you have POA of your uncle?  

[eternalsummer]

It is terrible.

 

A similar thing happened to DH's grandparents, but not done by the state, or by malicious unrelated actors.  Their own children moved them into assisted living, sold or gave away most of their things, and abandoned them there where they had neither friends nor family nor community.

[shawthorne44]

I wish I were shocked.  I know some people whose kids have been trying to take control of her money.   It has been dragging for years with the help of the judge, and UMB, may they rot in hell.   For example, there was a court ordered test administered by a psychologist and she scored higher (better) in competency than anyone that doc had ever tested, including himself.   But that was ignored.  

[nixpix5]

Horrifying. This makes me ill.

[ErinE]

At the time I thought the whole debacle was the result of incompetence, not malice, but after reading that article, I'm wondering if he might actually have been targeted. :glare:

 

My heart aches for all the people whose relatives were stolen from them, and whose attempts to find justice were thwarted by corruption in every area at every level. The depravity of people who prey on the elderly is just sickening.

:grouphug: good that you brought fire, brimstone, and lawyers. It's terrible that you required them in the first place.

[Corraleno]

Don't you have POA of your uncle?

 

Yup — I have POA for everything (general, financial, health), plus a good lawyer, plus an awesome GP who knows us both well and would back me up 100% (she was shocked and horrified and offered to help in any way she could). So I felt like I was in a really strong position to fight it — unlike so many of the families in that article.  :crying:

 

I've been googling around, and it seems like guardianship (aka conservatorship) only occurs if the person is deemed incompetent or unable to care for themselves *and* has not made prior arrangements for someone else to legally take over their financial and health care decisions. For example, I found this:

 

 

 

Two things must combine to make a conservatorship appropriate. One, the person must be physically or mentally incapable of making important decisions for herself. The other circumstance is that she doesn't already have legal documents (such as a living will and a power of attorney for finances) that cover decisions about her personal and financial matters.

 

* If she hasn't prepared a power of attorney for finances, she might need a conservator of the estate.

 

* If she doesn't have a medical directive or living will, she might need a conservator of the person to make healthcare decisions.

 

* Even if she has a medical directive, she might still need a conservator of the person to decide health matters that aren't covered in the medical directive (if the medical directive doesn't already name an agent to make those decisions).

 

* Even if she has a power of attorney for both health care and finances, she might need a conservator of the person to make decisions about her personal life -- where she's to live, for example, or who's allowed to spend time with her.

That seems to imply that a POA would take precedence, and a guardian would only cover issues not explicitly covered by the POA/healthcare directive/living will/etc.

 

That last line is a bit concerning, though; it implies that even if you have financial and healthcare POAs, someone else could get guardianship and use it to move the person to their own choice of facility and keep relatives away. So that's another question to add to the list I'll be taking to the lawyer. 

[StephanieZ]

Would that actually help in a state like Nevada? Those people had state guardians assigned when they were reasonably healthy and functional due to shady signatures of doctors declaring them incompetent or in need of guardians. And what good would a will do if they're still alive and the guardian sold off all of their stuff?

 

Scary. I'm almost glad we have less than zero assets so we're unlikely to be in danger of this :(

 

Yes, I believe it would help. My understanding, based on her own planning from my attorney-mother and her very-high-dollar estate attorney, is that having the correct documents in place totally prevents these sorts of stranger-abduction-disasters.

 

The reason they protect you is that the person designates in a legally binding way people who *are* legally competent (so no doubt) to handle their legal (and medical) affairs when they themselves are no longer competent. So long as your documents are done properly, and you have designated competent people (and successors if they decline, die, etc), you are good to go. (You still have to be careful that the vulnerable person doesn't get suckered in by con-men while still legally competent . . . but that's an entire other issue, and I doubt it'd come into play with the sorts of stories this article describes. Those cons are targeting easy prey, and having the right documents in place makes you very tough prey.)

 

Certainly, it would also help if your loves ones are aggressive advocates for you . . . 

 

Guardianship cases are incredibly draining of a person's finances. 

 

The reason why estate attorneys make sure you have all these documents in place is to prevent a guardianship case, even among loved ones (say two adult kids with differing opinions), as those court cases quickly become extremely expensive . . . and usually it's the vulnerable person's money that gets drained . . . Do the documents right, and it's fairly bullet proof. 

 

It's surprising to me that there is clearly a business model that goes after "small" estates of just 100-200k. I guess those scumbags don't mind "only" being able to drain 5-6 figures from one person's life's savings since they can have HUNDREDS of people under their "guardianship" and bill hundreds of dollars an hour. I guess they just run each dry as fast as they can, then leave them to Medicaid and walk away. Evil. Evil. Evil.

[StephanieZ]

 

Yup — I have POA for everything (general, financial, health), plus a good lawyer, plus an awesome GP who knows us both well and would back me up 100% (she was shocked and horrified and offered to help in any way she could). So I felt like I was in a really strong position to fight it — unlike so many of the families in that article.  :crying:

 

I've been googling around, and it seems like guardianship (aka conservatorship) only occurs if the person is deemed incompetent or unable to care for themselves *and* has not made prior arrangements for someone else to legally take over their financial and health care decisions. For example, I found this:

 

 

 

That seems to imply that a POA would take precedence, and a guardian would only cover issues not explicitly covered by the POA/healthcare directive/living will/etc.

 

That last line is a bit concerning, though; it implies that even if you have financial and healthcare POAs, someone else could get guardianship and use it to move the person to their own choice of facility and keep relatives away. So that's another question to add to the list I'll be taking to the lawyer. 

 

My mother's estate attorney clarified to me, personally, and it was a serious and imminent concern at that time, that I, as her Health Care Proxy, was clearly in total control of where Mom resided. That may have been due to state-specific laws and/or due to the fact that Mom's documents were very carefully crafted by a very-high-dollar estate attorney -- there were numerous specific clauses and clarifications of authority to make this utterly inarguable -- that's what good lawyers do. But, anyway, for Mom, in Virginia when the documents were drafted and later in WV where she resided for her last 18 months, her health care proxy was bullet proof, according to the experts we engaged. I had 100% control of where Mom resided.

 

Now, I'm sure that if I were accused of abusing/neglecting her and/or another close loved one went to court to challenge me, there *might* be some loophole, but those issues weren't at play in our family, so, fortunately, I never had to face a legal challenge. 

[Pawz4me]

 

 

It's surprising to me that there is clearly a business model that goes after "small" estates of just 100-200k. I guess those scumbags don't mind "only" being able to drain 5-6 figures from one person's life's savings since they can have HUNDREDS of people under their "guardianship" and bill hundreds of dollars an hour. I guess they just run each dry as fast as they can, then leave them to Medicaid and walk away. Evil. Evil. Evil.

 

I was a little surprised at first, but then I realized those estates are large enough to be lucrative but (perhaps) not large enough that family members would be on familiar, comfortable terms with an attorney or feel like the pockets were deep enough for them to afford to be able to push back aggressively. That's just a guess, though.

[StephanieZ]

I was a little surprised at first, but then I realized those estates are large enough to be lucrative but (perhaps) not large enough that family members would be on familiar, comfortable terms with an attorney or feel like the pockets were deep enough for them to afford to be able to push back aggressively. That's just a guess, though.

 

Good point! I hadn't thought of that.

 

If the "kids" stand to inherit a million bucks, even if their folks hadn't done all the right paperwork ahead of times, those "kids" would be much more likely hire a good attorney to fight, because they'd be motivated for the $$ themselves and/or because being in a family with that much $$, the "kids" probably have the means (and the chutzpah) to pay for the lawyer themselves, even if they didn't want the money for themselves. 

 

Just another example of how "poor" folks get screwed in our economy. Unbelievable. I hate people. 

[Corraleno]

My mother's estate attorney clarified to me, personally, and it was a serious and imminent concern at that time, that I, as her Health Care Proxy, was clearly in total control of where Mom resided. That may have been due to state-specific laws and/or due to the fact that Mom's documents were very carefully crafted by a very-high-dollar estate attorney -- there were numerous specific clauses and clarifications of authority to make this utterly inarguable -- that's what good lawyers do. But, anyway, for Mom, in Virginia when the documents were drafted and later in WV where she resided for her last 18 months, her health care proxy was bullet proof, according to the experts we engaged. I had 100% control of where Mom resided.

That's very useful information, thank you. I will make sure that both Bob's and my own POAs have those clarifications.

[Murphy101]

W

T

**

 

And this was especially chilling. Colusion to commit a felonyof some sort is what that should be.

 

Debra Bookout, an attorney at the Legal Aid Center of Southern Nevada, told me, “When a hospital or rehab facility needs to free up a bed, or when the patient is not paying his bills, some doctors get sloppy, and they will sign anything.†A recent study conducted by Hunter College found that a quarter of guardianship petitions in New York were brought by nursing homes and hospitals, sometimes as a means of collecting on overdue bills.

"Sloppy" my ass.

[Seasider]

My God -- not only the people directly involved, but the collusion of all of the medical and legal people involved ... This is so repulsive. I'm just about sick to my stomach.

This is what boggles my mind - that it is so widespread and stretches into the medical community. Special place in Dante's Inferno.

[Seasider]

And aside from the horrifying circumstances described in the article, I hate this because it demeans the truly important and often sacrificial role of a true guardian. As an acting POA, I lose sleep over every tough decision. I cannot imagine being a "professional" guardian, billing 100s of victims for my time to serve them. Disgusting.

[Guest]

And aside from the horrifying circumstances described in the article, I hate this because it demeans the truly important and often sacrificial role of a true guardian. As an acting POA, I lose sleep over every tough decision. I cannot imagine being a "professional" guardian, billing 100s of victims for my time to serve them. Disgusting.

 

I agree.  My husband and I are completely, utterly agonized over whether or not to claim guardianship over our special needs son once he turns 18.  Guardianship strips them of so much of their integrity and rights.  It is NOT something to casually pursue.  It has consequences that run far and wide.  Our son is 14, and we still haven't decided yet.   True that it would protect him from predators, but it would also take away his voting rights, his autonomy, his financial independence, etc.

[Murphy101]

My God -- not only the people directly involved, but the collusion of all of the medical and legal people involved ... This is so repulsive. I'm just about sick to my stomach.

Me too. That's just... yeah. No wonder the poor man felt he was a Jew back in Nazi Germany.

 

And oh yay, asshole judge now gets to decide the fate of children. God help them.

[Murphy101]

Good point! I hadn't thought of that.

 

If the "kids" stand to inherit a million bucks, even if their folks hadn't done all the right paperwork ahead of times, those "kids" would be much more likely hire a good attorney to fight, because they'd be motivated for the $$ themselves and/or because being in a family with that much $$, the "kids" probably have the means (and the chutzpah) to pay for the lawyer themselves, even if they didn't want the money for themselves.

 

Just another example of how "poor" folks get screwed in our economy. Unbelievable. I hate people.

I’m right there with you.

 

Rights and justice are nothing but BS illusion apparently.

[kiana]

One of the things I find most upsetting about this is the elderly who won't sign up for help that would really help them because they're afraid of something like this happening.

 

This is personal, but someone who struggles to clean or do laundry due to chronic health issues -- but is generally pretty functional about many things -- however, has sufficient problems with mobility that a crooked judge and doctor could easily approve something like this with only stretching things a little bit -- won't sign up for housekeeping help, even though it would be free, because it would open the door to something like this.