WWYD- Honor Band or Winter Guard Competition?

[DragonFaerie]

DD is in a conundrum. Her school paid for her to audition for All-State band, and while she didn’t make All-State, she was chosen to participate in the District Honor Band. She is one of only 20 or so clarinets out of the whole district chosen and the only one from her school, so it is an honor to be selected. However, she is last chair, which means she will be playing the easier “boring†parts.  She is less than excited to go. 

 

Then there is the fact that she has a Winter Guard competition that same day.  Winter Guard is a smaller, competitive Color Guard team that travels to various competitions around the state.  They have 6 or 8 competitions this spring, and DD has a featured part in two of the competition routines.  She absolutely does not want to miss a Guard competition to participate in Honor band and insists that her featured parts in the Guard routines are much more important than being last chair at District.  The Guard team needs her where the Honor band does not.  The Guard coach, of course, agrees with her while the band director really wants her to go to Honor band to represent the school.  I’m concerned that skipping Honor band now might come back to bite her later when she wants to be put forward for other band-related activities, but she insists that Guard is still more important to her.

 

So, WWYD?  Make her go to District or allow her to go to the Guard competition?

[maize]

Guard.

 

The band won't miss her.

[Moonhawk]

Usually I'd go with the first-standing commitment.  If Winter Guard was on the calendar for a while before the Honor Band came up, it would be the winner.  If your daughter was super-stoked to to go to Honor Band it would change the equation, but she isn't, so I would just default to prior commitment. 

 

Agree it could affect later band things, like chair, parts, solos, and next year's All State audition being paid for. But, she can only go to one anyway, and skipping out on the Winter Guard could potentially have consequences, too. So, that kind of cancels out in consideration. 

[BarbecueMom]

Oh I remember those days.

 

I would have skipped District Concert Band, but not District Jazz Band, for a competition. I was on floor crew for guard, but also did indoor winter drum line. I don't think I ever had any conflicts though. As long as state auditions have passed, I would have let an alternate go in my place. If it affected state audition or placement, I would skip the competition instead.

 

But that's just me. What a wave of nostalgia though. Congrats to her on district band!

[scrapbookbuzz]

I don't know how it works in other states/districts, but when I was in high school I was sent to Honor Band and had

no idea why. Especially since I'd never played timpani before, which was my assigned instrument! I am and was no stranger

to percussion AND I knew how to read music which might have had something to do with it. BUT my point is, I don't know that

going had any positive impact on my musical instrument playing status after that. 

 

It sounds like missing Winter Guard would affect Winter Guard more than missing Honor Band would affect Honor Band.

I'd say go with Winter Guard.

[DragonFaerie]

Oh I remember those days.

 

I would have skipped District Concert Band, but not District Jazz Band, for a competition. I was on floor crew for guard, but also did indoor winter drum line. I don't think I ever had any conflicts though. As long as state auditions have passed, I would have let an alternate go in my place. If it affected state audition or placement, I would skip the competition instead.

 

But that's just me. What a wave of nostalgia though. Congrats to her on district band!

 

Thank you.  I'll pass along your congrats.

 

Participation in Honor band has no bearing on All-State auditions.  She did not make it to the state-level round anyway, despite being chosen for District. Incidentally, she has made Honor band every time that she has auditioned for All-State (three times now), but this is the first year she's doing Guard. 

[Pippen]

Either way it can come back and bite her. If it were my daughter I'm sure she'd want to do the guard competition as well.

 

Is the winter guard also a school-related activity?  And does the winter guard fall under the umbrella of the band program, so that the winter guard coach is under the direction of the band director?  That's how it's usually organized in schools around here, and in that case I'd have daughter let her wishes be known and then let the directors make the final call. 

 

 

[DragonFaerie]

Either way it can come back and bite her. If it were my daughter I'm sure she'd want to do the guard competition as well.

 

Is the winter guard also a school-related activity?  And does the winter guard fall under the umbrella of the band program, so that the winter guard coach is under the direction of the band director?  That's how it's usually organized in schools around here, and in that case I'd have daughter let her wishes be known and then let the directors make the final call. 

 

Yes, Guard is a school activity, too, and while I know Color Guard is ultimately under the band umbrella, I'm not sure that Winter Guard is. If she wanted to skip the competition and go to District, the band director could step in and make the Guard coach let her go.  But that's not what she wants.  She wants to go to the competition.

[Rachel]

Just to offer an alternative...

 

When I was in high school I typically sat 1st or 2nd chair clarinet of 20 or so. I auditioned and participated in a national band, it was humbling to be a third clarinet, but I also learned a lot from having better players sitting ahead of me.

[DragonFaerie]

Just to offer an alternative...

 

When I was in high school I typically sat 1st or 2nd chair clarinet of 20 or so. I auditioned and participated in a national band, it was humbling to be a third clarinet, but I also learned a lot from having better players sitting ahead of me.

 

This is definitely true, and I think DD is most displeased to be 20th chair.  She is usually 5th or higher. Last year she was 3rd chair at District; and she is 2nd chair this season in the Youth Symphony (not school related). In all honesty, and at the risk of sounding very "braggy," she is better than 20th chair.  She didn't practice nearly enough for the audition, and she has already beat herself up plenty for that.  Part of me feels like making her go to District would just rub it in her face again that she didn't practice enough to do better.

[Pippen]

This is definitely true, and I think DD is most displeased to be 20th chair.  She is usually 5th or higher. Last year she was 3rd chair at District; and she is 2nd chair this season in the Youth Symphony (not school related). In all honesty, and at the risk of sounding very "braggy," she is better than 20th chair.  She didn't practice nearly enough for the audition, and she has already beat herself up plenty for that.  Part of me feels like making her go to District would just rub it in her face again that she didn't practice enough to do better.

 

The flip side of that argument is if everyone who didn't practice hard enough and/or didn't like their seating pulled out, then it would be harmful to the ensemble as a whole. If she auditioned and can make the performance, then she should. Since you've asked WWYD, I'd consider letting my kiddo out of it due to another conflict, but never because they didn't get the seating they wanted, especially if they went to the audition not fully prepared.

 

We're nearing the end of three kids who have been in band--including All-State musicians--so we've had plenty of conflicts along the way. Has she already spoken to the directors so she knows for sure that the decision is in her hands?

Edited January 4, 2017 by Pippen

[DragonFaerie]

The flip side of that argument is if everyone who didn't practice hard enough and/or didn't like their seating pulled out, then it would be harmful to the ensemble as a whole. If she auditioned and can make the performance, then she should. Since you've asked WWYD, I'd consider letting my kiddo out of it due to another conflict, but never because they didn't get the seating they wanted, especially if they went to the audition not fully prepared.

 

We're nearing the end of three kids who have been in band--including All-State musicians--so we've had plenty of conflicts along the way. Has she already spoken to the directors so she knows for sure that the decision is in her hands?

 

Yes, nobody is going to make her do something she doesn't want to do.  To be fair, she would definitely want to do Honor band, no matter what her chair placement was, if she didn't have this conflict. And in all honesty, we had both completely forgotten about the possibility of Honor band when she auditioned for All-State.  The Guard competition schedule has been out for a few weeks now. Honor band dates just came out this week, so her Guard commitment came first.  

[littlebug42]

I think she should do guard, since she committed to that first. 

[luuknam]

I she planning on making a career out of playing clarinet? If so, she should practice more, take auditions more seriously, and suck up being 20th chair. Otherwise, whichever she wants to do, which it sounds like is winter guard.

[happi duck]

I vote guard.

 

She tried out for the *state* band and the district thing seems like a consolation prize. She wasn't trying out for district.

[DragonFaerie]

I she planning on making a career out of playing clarinet? If so, she should practice more, take auditions more seriously, and suck up being 20th chair. Otherwise, whichever she wants to do, which it sounds like is winter guard.

 

No, she doesn't want to make a career out of clarinet. She actually wants to be a homicide detective. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by DragonFaerie

[Slartibartfast]

She's right. If she is featured in the Winterguard performance then it will make things very difficult for them. They will have to change things around and it will require them to spend time rehearing with her spot filled rather than something they need to be working on.

 

I was in Winterguard and band.

[Slartibartfast]

Winterguard is intense and not being there would harm the winterguard ensemble MUCH MORE. People in guard have gone on to be professionals in dance or as educators. At higher levels it is much more than people actually know and it would really not be something she should miss.

 

In Winterguard it would be more like missing a dance competition where people are ALSO throwing flags, rifles, and sabres around while dancing.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Slartibartfast

[wonderchica]

Definitely needs to go to guard. I say this as a former band/guard nerd! We were national champs, and you would have to be on your deathbed to miss. There'd be a big hole in the performance.

[DragonFaerie]

Winterguard is intense and not being there would harm the winterguard ensemble MUCH MORE. People in guard have gone on to be professionals in dance or as educators. At higher levels it is much more than people actually know and it would really not be something she should miss.

 

In Winterguard it would be more like missing a dance competition where people are ALSO throwing flags, rifles, and sabres around while dancing.

 

 

And in DD's case, her featured role involves tumbling while throwing and catching. :D

 

Thanks for sharing the vids!

Edited January 5, 2017 by DragonFaerie

[Slartibartfast]

And in DD's case, her featured role involves tumbling while throwing and catching. :D

 

Thanks for sharing the vids!

Yeah, I was trying to explain a bit more for the people who might not know what it is. :lol:

 

It isn't something a ton of people know about.

 

I actually once cut myself with my sabre and then glued and taped it so I wouldn't have to get stitches and miss a show. :lol:

Edited January 5, 2017 by Slartibartfast

[DragonFaerie]

Yeah, I was trying to explain a bit more for the people who might not know what it is. :lol:

 

It isn't something a ton of people know about.

 

I actually once cut myself with my sabre and then glued and taped it so I wouldn't have to get stitches and miss a show. :lol:

 

True, and thank you. :-)

[DragonFaerie]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys.  Y'all have actually made me change my tune (no pun intended; LOL).  I told DD she was being immature to not even consider what she might be giving up by not participating in District (those possible future band opportunities). But now I'm thinking that I was wrong and she is totally right to do the Guard competition instead.  I didn't really think through how difficult it would be for her team to cover for her if she were to miss.  I think I owe my kid an apology.

[BarbecueMom]

I've seen a lot of mistakes made during guard shows because someone is missing. Usually due to injury, but there's always that one show where a bunch are missing due to taking the ACT or SAT. Now those are kind of important, hehe.

 

FWIW, the single most moving musical experience I have ever had was at a winter guard/drum line competition. 2001 WGI Championships. Still get shivers thinking about it.

 

All I remember from district band was playing a piece easy enough to learn in a day and freezing my feet off in a middle-of-nowhere school gym. And getting Taco Bell with then-boyfriend/now-DH.

[Slartibartfast]

There are also opportunities with guard as there are in band. I did Drum Corps for several years as well as Winterguard.

 

I am friends with someone that actually has a job teaching guard in Thailand.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Slartibartfast

[justasque]

Winter Guard.  It's a prior commitment, and the kind where missing really leaves the rest of the team in a difficult position.  In fact, I'm surprised that they did not ask for conflicts before the band audition.  Here, with dance and theater and such, before you audition for something you are expected to inform them of any prior commitments, so that they can plan accordingly when deciding if and how to cast you. (So, for example, you might not get a lead part but perhaps could have a little featured role that works with your schedule.)  We fill our calendar as we commit to things, and it would be very, very rare of us to renege on a commitment.  We've even done the crazy where we drive from a morning/afternoon event in one state to an unrelated afternoon/evening event in another state, but always with both parties fully informed, and in particular the second people fully informed of the first before casting.  

Edited January 5, 2017 by justasque

[Slartibartfast]

I've seen a lot of mistakes made during guard shows because someone is missing. Usually due to injury, but there's always that one show where a bunch are missing due to taking the ACT or SAT. Now those are kind of important, hehe.

 

FWIW, the single most moving musical experience I have ever had was at a winter guard/drum line competition. 2001 WGI Championships. Still get shivers thinking about it.

 

All I remember from district band was playing a piece easy enough to learn in a day and freezing my feet off in a middle-of-nowhere school gym. And getting Taco Bell with then-boyfriend/now-DH.

omg you were marching ten years after me. :lol:

[BarbecueMom]

There are also opportunities with guard as there are in band. I did Drum Corps for several years as well as Winterguard.

Which corps? I was never able to do it (stick that in the lost and broken dreams thread) but have many friends who did. I took my kids to their first DCI show in 2015. Rite of passage.

 

You're from OK, right? Or am I thinking of someone else? I was at a guard show at Broken Arrow... some time. 1999, 2000, maybe?

[Slartibartfast]

Which corps? I was never able to do it (stick that in the lost and broken dreams thread) but have many friends who did. I took my kids to their first DCI show in 2015. Rite of passage.

 

You're from OK, right? Or am I thinking of someone else? I was at a guard show at Broken Arrow... some time. 1999, 2000, maybe?

I am from OK. :) I am not from BA but we competed with them.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Slartibartfast

[wonderchica]

FWIW, the single most moving musical experience I have ever had was at a winter guard/drum line competition. 2001 WGI Championships. Still get shivers thinking about it.

 

 

Care to share? That was around my time...

[J-rap]

Guard.

[BarbecueMom]

Care to share? That was around my time...

It was a California high school drum line... Mission Viejo maybe? I think show was based on "12 Angry Jurors" and they were all blindfolded ("blind justice"). So well done, I was in shock. Most of the time you have a general idea about what kind of show you are going to see, just get some unexpected shivers when it's really, really good. After that performance I remember being literally speechless.

[wonderchica]

It was a California high school drum line... Mission Viejo maybe? I think show was based on "12 Angry Jurors" and they were all blindfolded ("blind justice"). So well done, I was in shock. Most of the time you have a general idea about what kind of show you are going to see, just get some unexpected shivers when it's really, really good. After that performance I remember being literally speechless.

It's funny how after all these years the names of the big WGI/BOA schools still ring a bell!

[BarbecueMom]

It's funny how after all these years the names of the big WGI/BOA schools still ring a bell!

Yep! That was my only time attending WGI championships and I was floored by the caliber of some of the schools there. And that one definitely stuck out.

[Hilltopmom]

Guard, for sure.

 

And this post is making me want to go out & twirl something ;) no flag here anymore, but I can still flip a broom around in the air pretty darn well, lol.

 

Ah, the glory days. (Um, just kidding bout that part)

Edited January 7, 2017 by Hilltopmom

[DragonFaerie]

Well, the latest update is that DD told the band director that she absolutely can't miss the Guard competition.  He asked her if she would do District if there was a way she could do both, and DD said yes, though I can't see how that's possible.  District is Thursday-Saturday, and the Guard competition is all day on Saturday.  We don't have specific time info yet, but the two locations are at least a four-hour drive apart. I just don't see any way that she can do both, but if the band director wants to try to figure out something, more power to him.  We'll see what he comes up with (if anything) and see if it's doable. 

 

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.  I never knew there were so many Guard folks out there!  This is all new to us. :-)

Edited January 7, 2017 by DragonFaerie

[Hilltopmom]

There will probably be last minute dress rehearsals for the competition too in those last few days, I'd bet.

[Jann in TX]

I have a dd who made district/region band (clarinet too!)... today she is at the area auditions as she advanced...

 

With that said, I would say do the Winter Guard...  also, let her band director know as soon as possible so the alternate can be notified. 

 

We have had several students over the years in similar situations-- the regular band one is the one traditionally dropped for a more specific contest.

[Jann in TX]

. I just don't see any way that she can do both, but if the band director wants to try to figure out something, more power to him.  We'll see what he comes up with (if anything) and see if it's doable. 

 

I can tell you it would not be doable-- students have to be present at ALL of the rehearsals (with Saturdays being the most important with the concert Saturday evening!).

 

Your band director should know this-- and should also know that conflicts come up-- this is why there are alternates!

 

[DragonFaerie]

I can tell you it would not be doable-- students have to be present at ALL of the rehearsals (with Saturdays being the most important with the concert Saturday evening!).

 

Your band director should know this-- and should also know that conflicts come up-- this is why there are alternates!

 

 

He does know this. I think he's hoping that the Guard competition will be late enough in the day that she can do the District performance and then go to the competition. But I really, really doubt this will be the case.

[Dmmetler]

Can the coach request a late competition time? That's fairly common for cheer-there was one year that half the senior teams did state finals early-because their school had prom that night, but several others competed late because they had girls who needed to take the SAT or subject tests that morning!

[DragonFaerie]

Can the coach request a late competition time? That's fairly common for cheer-there was one year that half the senior teams did state finals early-because their school had prom that night, but several others competed late because they had girls who needed to take the SAT or subject tests that morning!

 

I have no idea.  The band director is going to talk with the guard coach.  We're just going to let them try to figure it out.

 

ETA:  I have pointed out to DD that she should be flattered that both teachers want her with their groups and are willing to do whatever they can to make that happen. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by DragonFaerie

[kiwik]

If she is not looking at music as a career then whichever she likes provided she doesn't let someone down badly.

[Slartibartfast]

Guy from Talking Heads made a documentary about it :D

 

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/new-documentary-david-byrne-explores-wonder-color-guard-180961431/#g5VSLDuGltOcpOSw.01

[Slartibartfast]

Oops

Edited January 10, 2017 by Slartibartfast

[poppy]

It is very clear from how you worded the question, what you want to do .

Do that.

[DragonFaerie]

It is very clear from how you worded the question, what you want to do .

Do that.

 

Oh, it's no secret what DD wants to do.  I'm just trying to figure out what the right thing to do is.  We got the Honor Band schedule today.  There is a 2.5 hour window on Saturday between the band rehearsal and the band performance where they get a lunch break.  It is at least an hour drive between the two locations.  I just can't see any way doing both will be a viable option.

[Slartibartfast]

Oh, it's no secret what DD wants to do.  I'm just trying to figure out what the right thing to do is.  We got the Honor Band schedule today.  There is a 2.5 hour window on Saturday between the band rehearsal and the band performance where they get a lunch break.  It is at least an hour drive between the two locations.  I just can't see any way doing both will be a viable option.

Unless you have the time that your dd's group is performing then you don't even know for sure if her group will be competing at the time of the window you have AND your dd needs to be there well over an hour for warm up.

[DragonFaerie]

Unless you have the time that your dd's group is performing then you don't even know for sure if her group will be competing at the time of the window you have AND your dd needs to be there well over an hour for warm up.

 

Exactly.  I feel badly for the band director.  He wants so much for her to do this, but she just can't.