College requires proof of meeting high school graduation requirements

[amyco]

I am upset right now, so possibly not the right time to ask for help/feedback/experience, but any would be appreciated!

 

We graduated our daughter in Dec. 2015 from our homeschool in Colorado.  She was not in any umbrella or program, it was straight-up homeschooling, and I issued a transcript.  She did spend 9th and 10th grades in public high school.  Her test scores are very high.  She has applied to a tiny school in Massachusetts which is telling us they accept her, she can start in January, but their state requires proof of high school graduation, and my homeschool transcript stating as such does not suffice--nor does any other information coming from me.  (They have only had one other homeschooler, who apparently had no documentation whatsoever.  Yikes).  This is to cover their bases, in case they get audited, etc, and is in no way a reflection on my daughter.  The admissions director suggested I have a local high school counselor look at her transcript and just write a few sentences saying she has met the requirements.

 

I explained to him that public school did not issue her a diploma.  He then suggested I contact someone at our state Dept of Education to do it...at which time I tried not to start crying on the phone.  

 

I have heard of colleges wanting crazy things...but really?  My academic superstar was granted conditional acceptance until they receive this.  That is what she heard them telling her...but when I talked to him he insisted no, no, she's accepted, we just need this as a formality, etc.  The poor child...when she originally sent in her homeschool transcript, they asked for something more formal.  I should have known then there would be a problem...I am so upset.  Where do I get a letter like this?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mama Geek]

No answers just a  :grouphug:

[TranquilMind]

I am upset right now, so possibly not the right time to ask for help/feedback/experience, but any would be appreciated!

 

We graduated our daughter in Dec. 2015 from our homeschool in Colorado.  She was not in any umbrella or program, it was straight-up homeschooling, and I issued a transcript.  She did spend 9th and 10th grades in public high school.  Her test scores are very high.  She has applied to a tiny school in Massachusetts which is telling us they accept her, she can start in January, but their state requires proof of high school graduation, and my homeschool transcript stating as such does not suffice--nor does any other information coming from me.  (They have only had one other homeschooler, who apparently had no documentation whatsoever.  Yikes).  This is to cover their bases, in case they get audited, etc, and is in no way a reflection on my daughter.  The admissions director suggested I have a local high school counselor look at her transcript and just write a few sentences saying she has met the requirements.

 

I explained to him that public school did not issue her a diploma.  He then suggested I contact someone at our state Dept of Education to do it...at which time I tried not to start crying on the phone.  

 

I have heard of colleges wanting crazy things...but really?  My academic superstar was granted conditional acceptance until they receive this.  That is what she heard them telling her...but when I talked to him he insisted no, no, she's accepted, we just need this as a formality, etc.  The poor child...when she originally sent in her homeschool transcript, they asked for something more formal.  I should have known then there would be a problem...I am so upset.  Where do I get a letter like this?  

 

Is your transcript very professional, as any from a school would be?

 

Can you not issue her a professional Diploma with seals and everything (and scrawled signatures!)?  

 

Contact the State Dept of Education.  There is a person specifically assigned to help home schoolers here.  I bet that person can sign a document you create indicating that your daughter has met (or exceeded, then say that) every state requirement for graduation from high school. 

 

[Melissa B]

In FL you register as a homeschooler with the county (if you are not using an umbrella school) and the county school board will send an official letter on your behalf. Were you registered with any sort of county or state school board? They don't have to look at anything. They just send a form letter that says all state requirements have been met. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Melissa B

[Julie of KY]

First of all take a deep breath.

 

I'd call Home School Legal Defense Association (even if you are not a member). They will oftentimes call the school on your behalf and explain that you legally graduated your daughter under x state's laws. It is to the benefit of all homeschoolers if they deal with it rather than you jump through hoops and then this school makes every other homeschooler do the same.

 

Even if HSLDA is working on it, I'd go ahead and see what you can do on your end so that maybe you can get a quick answer just by having a local person verify your paperwork. Many people are simply uneducated on homeschool laws and they ask for inappropriate things from us.

[amyco]

Thank you everyone!  I  have calmed down a little now.  :)  In CO we don't register as homeschoolers, only file a notice of intent to homeschool.     Or is that the same thing?  The state does not monitor us at all beyond the notice, so they would have no way of knowing what materials we use.  I have put in a call to the dept of education, the message said they will get back to me within 48 hours.  I do like the idea of contacting HSLDA, I will consider that.  

 

I'll let you know how it all turns out.  

[Matryoshka]

 She has applied to a tiny school in Massachusetts which is telling us they accept her, she can start in January, but their state requires proof of high school graduation, and my homeschool transcript stating as such does not suffice--nor does any other information coming from me.  (They have only had one other homeschooler, who apparently had no documentation whatsoever.  Yikes).  This is to cover their bases, in case they get audited, etc, and is in no way a reflection on my daughter.  The admissions director suggested I have a local high school counselor look at her transcript and just write a few sentences saying she has met the requirements.

 

 

BS, BS, BS, BS.

 

I live in MA.  There is no such law.  There is no such statute.  MA does not in any way require proof of high school homeschool graduation to go to college.  Harvard is here, MIT is here, they all happily accept homeschoolers with just a transcript. The state of MA does not require nor offer any sort of 'proof' of high school graduation to homeschoolers.  It is in no way part of our homeschooling regulations.  No one in MA could provide what they're asking for either.

 

The only university I've heard of in MA giving homeschoolers a hard time for this was the flagship (UMass Amherst), but that still doesn't make their wanting such a thing true (they recently changed their regs to allow a certain number of DE credits instead), but that has still always been their bug up their butt, it has nothing to do with any state regs, in fact it flies directly in the face of all state regs, as MA homeschoolers have absolutely no way to get such a thing.  All the other public MA universities do not have any such requirement.  I know lots going to UMass Lowell, and my own dd is attending another state U - mom's transcript is just fine.  My friend's son is attending Brandeis - same.  

 

I'd make up something really official looking and see if that works.  A transcript with a seal, or heck, pay a few bucks for one of them fancy schmancy diplomas from homeschooldiploma.com.  Then if that didn't work, I'd talk to someone else and pretend you'd never had that conversation.  If they are similarly misinformed, tell them you know for a fact that there is no such state regulation, that you know homeschoolers going to universities public and private all over MA with just a homeschool transcript, and tell them they should print out and send you via certified mail this regulation if they think it exists - because it doesnt'.  At least UMass Amherst 'fessed up to their stupid requirement being their own, and didn't try to blame it on the state...

 

I may also ask them exactly what it is they think that some school counselor could 'approve' of.  Certain number of kinds of courses?  Can't they figure that out themselves??  'Met the requirements' - what requirements?? What the heck are they really looking for?  No one is ever going to 'audit' them and get them in trouble for a law that doesn't even exist.  And anyway, they are a private school and make their own rules.  

Edited December 12, 2016 by Matryoshka

[PollyOR]

Will they accept a GED?  I'm sure she could pass it quickly with no problem.  

 

 

[klmama]

To cover their bases in case they get audited by whom?  Why would anyone auditing them question her high school graduation?

 

 

[amyco]

BS, BS, BS, BS.

 

I live in MA.  There is no such law.  There is no such statute.  MA does not in any way require proof of high school homeschool graduation to go to college.  Harvard is here, MIT is here, they all happily accept homeschoolers with just a transcript. The state of MA does not require nor offer any sort of 'proof' of high school graduation to homeschoolers.  It is in no way part of our homeschooling regulations.  No one in MA could provide what they're asking for either.

 

 

I may also ask them exactly what it is they think that some school counselor could 'approve' of.  Certain number of kinds of courses?  Can't they figure that out themselves??  'Met the requirements' - what requirements?? What the heck are they really looking for?  No one is ever going to 'audit' them and get them in trouble for a law that doesn't even exist.  And anyway, they are a private school and make their own rules.  

 

Thank you for this!!  My daughter is composing a polite but firm email...with links to our Colorado homeschool law on the Dept of Education page.  She is even quoting the Constitution about  how states have to respect other states' laws...which includes her legal graduation!  I am so proud of her.  She made it clear that she wants to fight this battle herself. :)

[amyco]

To cover their bases in case they get audited by whom?  Why would anyone auditing them question her high school graduation?

 

Right!?  The more I think about it, the more ridiculous the whole thing sounds.  

[amyco]

And also....it seems like the onus should be on them to find out if our diploma is valid??  If they question it, then they are the ones who should call the state of Colorado to find out??  Instead of us jumping through the silly hoops?  (My daughter just found info requiring schools to do this regarding financial aid if they disagree with the validity of the diploma, so why not with admissions?)

 

 

 

[regentrude]

Will they accept a GED?  I'm sure she could pass it quickly with no problem.  

 

The GED is for students who did not graduate from high school. This student did .

[Nan in Mass]

I live in Mass.  When my children went to college, the colleges (3 different - 1 in state private, 1 out of state public, and our community college) asked to see our approval letters for the four years of high school. I was told that this was only because they were receiving financial aid.  Maybe your college has that in mind also?  That would fit with the comment about being audited.  If so, then perhaps your daughter should do her research from that angle - the regulations for receiving federal financial aid if one is a homeschooler.

 

Nan

[PollyOR]

The GED is for students who did not graduate from high school. This student did .

 

:) I was looking for an easy solution/suggestion to relieve Amy's stress.  I didn't mean to step on toes if I did.  Our state does not recognize parent issued high school diplomas.  

[8filltheheart]

I live in Mass.  When my children went to college, the colleges (3 different - 1 in state private, 1 out of state public, and our community college) asked to see our approval letters for the four years of high school. I was told that this was only because they were receiving financial aid.  Maybe your college has that in mind also?  That would fit with the comment about being audited.  If so, then perhaps your daughter should do her research from that angle - the regulations for receiving federal financial aid if one is a homeschooler.

 

Nan

 

No.  Federal financial aid is available to homeschoolers. 

 

OP, fwiw, I would have your dd include something about having complied with _______ homeschool statute.  I include that on my kids' transcripts.  After one college this yr that my dd applied required the GED from homeschoolers, I contacted them and told them she complied with our state law and if they were going to require the GED to withdraw her application.  We received a reply back that no, that as long as she complied with our state law that they were satisfied.

[snowbeltmom]

Can you get your transcript and diploma notarized?  That may make it look more official and maybe that would satisfy this school?

 

ETA: My oldest is at a school in MA.  They never asked for anything beyond the normal stuff that everyone submits.

Edited December 13, 2016 by snowbeltmom

[wapiti]

If you find that you really need to call someone in CO, it would probably be quickest to start with the homeschool liaison in your school district's office.  They are there to help.

[Corraleno]

There were changes to the law governing federal financial aid in 2012 that required students to have either a GED or a high school diploma, and it seems to have caused confusion regarding the status of homeschoolers. The admin who is asking for additional documentation may be misinterpreting or misunderstanding the law, and may be concerned about a federal audit regarding aid eligibility. There is a good summary of the issue here. You can read the law itself here. The section relevant to homeschoolers is:
 

In order for a student who does not have a certificate of graduation from a school providing secondary education, or the recognized equivalent of such certificate, to be eligible for any assistance under subparts 1, 3, and 4 of part A and parts B, C, and D of this subchapter and part C of subchapter I of chapter 34 of title 42, the student shall have completed a secondary school education in a home school setting that is treated as a home school or private school under State law.

I would write a letter directing him to the actual text of the law (20 USC 1019), quoting the relevant passage; direct him to the relevant homeschooling law in your state, quoting the relevant passage(s); and explain that your home school was treated as a valid homeschool under state law and therefore the student fully meets the criteria for Federal aid with no additional documentation necessary.

 

ETA: I would enclose a copy of your Letter of Intent, if that is all that is legally required by CO from homeschoolers. That serves as proof that you met the requirements to be "treated as a home school under state law."

Edited December 13, 2016 by Corraleno

[Nan in Mass]

There were changes to the law governing federal financial aid in 2012 that required students to have either a GED or a high school diploma, and it seems to have caused confusion regarding the status of homeschoolers. The admin who is asking for additional documentation may be misinterpreting or misunderstanding the law, and may be concerned about a federal audit regarding aid eligibility. There is a good summary of the issue here. You can read the law itself here. The section relevant to homeschoolers is:

 

I would write a letter directing him to the actual text of the law (20 USC 1019), quoting the relevant passage; direct him to the relevant homeschooling law in your state, quoting the relevant passage(s); and explain that your home school was treated as a valid homeschool under state law and therefore the student fully meets the criteria for Federal aid with no additional documentation necessary.

 

ETA: I would enclose a copy of your Letter of Intent, if that is all that is legally required by CO from homeschoolers. That serves as proof that you met the requirements to be "treated as a home school under state law."

 

This is what I meant.  Thanks, Corraleno!

 

OP - I suspect that the person in the administration that is worried about audits is remembering this from when it first arose and just isn't up to date on the resolution of the confusion.  As I said, all three colleges my children were involved with mentioned that they needed this documentation for financial aid purposes.  Now, two of those colleges knew that as Massachusetts homeschoolers, we had that documentation.  I asked the community college what they did with students from states like Texas that had nothing like this, and they said they hadn't figured that out yet; it would present a problem.  This was when the laws had first changed and colleges were still figuring out how it affected them.  I'm sure they've resolved the issues since then.  It didn't help that although our community college was familiar with homeschoolers, they weren't familiar with out of state homeschoolers and the issue was very easily resolved for Mass. homeschoolers.  As I said, I think your college just hasn't had to go through the process of figuring it out yet.  If you need to, you could contact one of the Mass. state homeschooling groups and ask someone there to contact the college and explain how this works at other Mass. colleges.  I know our school system, when a question about one of my children arose, had their lawyer contact the main group and the group set them straight. Here is the website for the group: http://www.mhla.org/index.htm

 

Nan

[rosesonarainyday]

Just because people might be interested.....

Also my mother is awesome!

 

For high school graduation in the state of Colorado, only .5 of a credit is legally required to graduate, and it has to be in United States history and government (see Colorado Revised Statutes Title 22, Article 1, Section 104-3). I have more than fulfilled this requirement (see xxx High School transcript, .5 credit government, and homeschool transcript, 1 credit U. S. History). 

As the Colorado Revised Statutes continue on to say (Title 22, Article 2, Section 106-1(a) through 106(a.5), the board of the school district may decide any and all further graduation requirements, using guidelines established by the state (however, these are not legal requirements, these are guidelines). Since I was homeschooled, my mother consisted of the school board, as well as the administrator, principal, counselor, and teacher. She set my graduation requirements; these I fulfilled. They are also comparable to those of other districts in the area in which I live.

We obeyed the law of my state of residence regarding homeschooling and graduation as set forth in the Colorado Revised Statutes; thus my high school graduation is clearly recognized by the laws of the state of Colorado. Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution states that “full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State,†which means that the state of Massachusetts legally has to honor my high school graduation. This should be enough to prove that the state of Massachusetts should not have any doubts as to the validity of my high school graduation, of which the homeschooling transcript I submitted was proof. 

Beyond this, I know of no law whatsoever regarding the state of Massachusetts requiring proof or verification of graduation from any homeschooler more than what we have already submitted. There is also no precedent, because colleges such as Harvard and MIT have not required it. 

If you think that there is such a law, please send it to me so that I may peruse it and take action.

If you would like to call the Colorado State Department of Education to confirm what I have written regarding the laws of the state of Colorado in relation to graduation as well as homeschooling, their phone number is 303-866-6600.

I am submitting this as verification that I have complied with all the laws of homeschooling and graduation in my state of Colorado, and that I have fulfilled all the graduation requirements of my homeschool. 

 

Find the full Colorado Revised Statutes, Title 22 here: http://tornado.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/2013TitlePrintouts/CRS%20Title%2022%20(2013).pdf

 

Article 33, Section 104.5 covers homeschooling

Edited December 13, 2016 by rosesonarainyday

[Nan in Mass]

Let's hope it does the trick, Roses!

 

Nan

[Myra]

And remember the old saying "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar!"

 

I would try to remain friendly with the admissions department personnel.  It is best if they are on your "side" and are working together with you to find a solution.  So  before I would start stating laws and regulations,  I would say "thank-you" for suggesting going to local school district for a letter and give it a try.  A friendly in-person appeal to the local school high school counselor might do the trick.  They might be willing to write you a short 2-3 line letter saying you have met your kid has met the equivalency of high school graduation requirements.  If not, ask what they could do to help you out. 

 

If that doesn't work, I'd go back to the college and ask them for further help - 

 

Just my "passive" two cents worth

 

 

Good luck,

 

Myra 

[elegantlion]

I did add a note to ds' transcript that said we were in compliance with our state homeschool statute and I listed the statute number. We have no real oversight in our state, there are yearly requirements, but no one looks at them. 

[Mom22ns]

No.  Federal financial aid is available to homeschoolers. 

 

OP, fwiw, I would have your dd include something about having complied with _______ homeschool statute.  I include that on my kids' transcripts.  

 

I put this on my transcripts too. 

 

If you know anyone that works in public schools, you could ask them to include a note on your behalf. I have a friend who is a public school administrator and I know she would have written such a note for me.

 

I love that your dd is taking this on herself!

[JanetC]

I used the wording lifted directly from the federal financial aid regulations:

 

This document certifies a secondary school education in a homeschool setting that qualifies for an exemption from compulsory attendance requirements under state law.

 

See page 1-6 here: https://ifap.ed.gov/fsahandbook/attachments/1617FSAHbkVol1.pdf

[goldberry]

I'm in Colorado, and the problem you may have is that Colorado has no *state requirements* for graduation as far as credits, etc.  Each school district can set its own requirements, so they vary.  We do have HEAR, Higher Education Admission Requirements,  http://highered.colorado.gov/academics/admissions/coursecompletion.html

 

On DD's school profile, I showed two columns comparing her credits to the HEAR requirements to show that she met those.  Maybe that would help?

Edited December 16, 2016 by goldberry

[Noreen Claire]

BS, BS, BS, BS.

 

I live in MA.  There is no such law.  There is no such statute.  MA does not in any way require proof of high school homeschool graduation to go to college.  Harvard is here, MIT is here, they all happily accept homeschoolers with just a transcript. The state of MA does not require nor offer any sort of 'proof' of high school graduation to homeschoolers.  It is in no way part of our homeschooling regulations.  No one in MA could provide what they're asking for either.

 

The only university I've heard of in MA giving homeschoolers a hard time for this was the flagship (UMass Amherst), but that still doesn't make their wanting such a thing true (they recently changed their regs to allow a certain number of DE credits instead), but that has still always been their bug up their butt, it has nothing to do with any state regs, in fact it flies directly in the face of all state regs, as MA homeschoolers have absolutely no way to get such a thing.  All the other public MA universities do not have any such requirement.  I know lots going to UMass Lowell, and my own dd is attending another state U - mom's transcript is just fine.  My friend's son is attending Brandeis - same.  

 

I'd make up something really official looking and see if that works.  A transcript with a seal, or heck, pay a few bucks for one of them fancy schmancy diplomas from homeschooldiploma.com.  Then if that didn't work, I'd talk to someone else and pretend you'd never had that conversation.  If they are similarly misinformed, tell them you know for a fact that there is no such state regulation, that you know homeschoolers going to universities public and private all over MA with just a homeschool transcript, and tell them they should print out and send you via certified mail this regulation if they think it exists - because it doesnt'.  At least UMass Amherst 'fessed up to their stupid requirement being their own, and didn't try to blame it on the state...

 

I may also ask them exactly what it is they think that some school counselor could 'approve' of.  Certain number of kinds of courses?  Can't they figure that out themselves??  'Met the requirements' - what requirements?? What the heck are they really looking for?  No one is ever going to 'audit' them and get them in trouble for a law that doesn't even exist.  And anyway, they are a private school and make their own rules.  

 

THIS. (I live in MA, too.)

[ThisIsTheDay]

We had a college admissions officer tell me that I needed to provide proof that we'd met our state SOLs--which homeschoolers aren't required by law to meet (nor does such proof exist). He was surprised to hear this.

 

Then he told me we needed a school district letter that we'd achieved certain standardized test scores--which the schools don't provide, nor are they permitted to determine.

 

Then he told me that I just needed to show standardized test scores--which we aren't required to use.

 

Fortunately, I'd been through the college admissions thing before, and I was very comfortable challenging his "rules." It was all done very amiably, as my student and I were in the office meeting with him in person.  He finally went to check with someone else, returning with a print out from the school's website telling me what I needed, the exact paper that I'd brought in with me.

 

I've learned from these boards that just because a school thinks you need something as a homeschooler doesn't mean that you really need it. It's okay to question them, to tell them what the laws really say, or to ask to speak to someone higher up if necessary.  It can be quite intimidating though, and I would not have been nearly as comfortable if I didn't already navigate the admissions process with my other child.

[Liza Q]

The GED is for students who did not graduate from high school. This student did .

 

I am just commenting about my experiences, as sometimes the GED may be the best of bad options.

 

My oldest took the GED while she was a senior in high school as the City University would not process her application without it. Even private NY colleges (at least here in NYC) can be very difficult about this sort of thing and it made her application process smooth. The private schools that accepted her considered her transcript and SAT scores, not just the GED, and offered her nice scholarships. Having a GED did not prevent her from being accepted to a grad school or getting her dream job. She tells everyone that she was homeschooled and the GED rarely comes up.

 

My next daughter received a letter from the NY Board and was able to use it for college admission.

 

Right now HSLDA is suing the NYC Board of Ed over difficulties with the letter that they are supposed to provide to homeschoolers who complete their high school education in accordance with NY law. This is affecting some of the seniors in our homeschool group and, if it is not resolved, may affect my son who is a junior. We may find that he has to take the GED (well, TASC in NY). It sucks, but we are looking at the big picture. I know that Harvard/MIT/etc. isn't looking for a GED from homeschoolers, but my son is an average student and may need that test, kwim?

 

[amyco]

Thanks everyone for the discussion!  It is finally resolved.  After explaining more about the CO homeschool law, and that there are no state graduation requirements as each district sets their own, and explaining how my daughter's classes exceeded requirements of our local district, they were satisfied. It was really just a matter of education as they had never had such a homeschooler before.  They did apologize for telling her she was "conditionally" accepted, and admitted this was a mistake, that she was fully 100% accepted.  So it's all straightened out and we are moving on with getting her ready to start college in just a few weeks!!  

 

I have read here about stories like this, but seriously never thought it would happen to us...we never stop learning!

 

 

[angela in ohio]

My daughter goes to a small school in Massachusetts and is the only homeschooler afaik. :D

 

They gave us no trouble at all. 

[AngieW in Texas]

We ran into that too with one of the schools my 18yo applied to in New York. They kept asking for things that don't exist in Texas.

 

We met with the admissions people when we went to tour the campus during Spring Break (hadn't been able to actually see the campus before then). They said that obviously from the size of the scholarship my 18yo had received, there wasn't any doubt about academics, but they needed this documentation. 

 

I took them copies of the laws here in Texas and told them that all I had had to do for other schools was notarize the transcript. In the end, they decided that would work for them too.

 

My 18yo is attending that school now, although we are looking at transfer options because the math department there isn't very good. Math wasn't on our radar when we started the college search, but since the statistics class my 18yo took in spring 2016 at the cc, becoming an actuary has become the new goal.