Acadie Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Living rent free can affect your divorce settlement. You'll be perceived as not needing as much because your costs are lower. That's what the divorce attorney told my step-brother last summer during his divorce. This is an excellent point. Amy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommybee Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 :grouphug: :grouphug: I'm in a weird situation where we've been separated for three years and not divorced yet. But it's been pretty darn amicable. So far he is giving me enough support. I did see a lawyer twice on the advice of this board so that I was aware of what child and spousal support I would be entitled to. It kind of sucked and so for now we stay married and he gives me more than I would get otherwise. I intend to finally start working full time this summer so I should be able to get my own divorce in the works hopefully. I will say please see a lawyer because while my situation so far is amicable it wasn't for about eight months when he moved in with a woman he was dating. She really pressured him to give me much less money and also to see his kids less. Luckily for all of us he moved out and isn't dating. In my experience with many family divorces a new woman can greatly change things and you really should just be as prepared as possible so you aren't caught off guard. As for telling your daughters......I just don't keep things quiet like that. It's just not who I am. In some ways maybe it can be a burden to my kids but I am just terrible at hiding my feelings. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) I guess where we differ is that I don't view parents' marital issues as a part of family life that is shared with the offspring. As I said in my first post, before the issue of cheating arose, who or that Dad is dating is not the kids' business unless and until he chooses to share it with them. Divorce is hard for the kids. Frankly, there's no way around that. I don't know the specifics of your situation, but yes, I went through the "can't talk to one parent about the other" situation. In fact, I still deal with that. That's just the way it is sometimes. I view it differently. If it's "Dad is dating x" well that's general information, not a secret. It's potentially more explosive than "Uncle Bob has a new girlfriend" but handled the right way it's a totally appropriate thing to share, especially since it affects the girls themselves. And if he's cheated, even more so. In that case Dad has betrayed the entire family. It's no longer a marital issue if there is no marriage. Divorce is a family issue. The adult kids didn't choose the divorce, dad chose to leave. I do think they're entitled to any information they wish to have because it's not just the dissolution of a marriage, but the dissolution of the entire family unit. You don't get to squirm out of a family and keep secrets too. You just don't. Edited March 2, 2016 by Barb_ 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Personally I think it is highly probable that the husband--as the divorce initiator--went to an attorney eons ago and is following their advice: get your wife to forego a lawyer, get her to move out of the house... He's doing a bang-up job of protecting his own interests while pretending to still be her friend. 35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Personally I think it is highly probable that the husband--as the divorce initiator--went to an attorney eons ago and is following their advice: get your wife to forego a lawyer, get her to move out of the house... He's doing a bang-up job of protecting his own interests while pretending to still be her friend. This may be the case. I know many situations where the couple was planning to have a friendly divorce with no lawyers, but one or both of them was secretly consulting a lawyer on the side. My own parents went into their divorce planning on mediation, but my father decided to go secretly consult the best lawyer in town . . . only to find that my mother had already consulted him. OP: If I had a real-life friend in this situation, I would seriously drive straight to her house, force her into my car, and drive her to an attorney myself. Depending on the financial situation, I would probably give her the cash to pay the lawyer's consultation fee. Friends don't let friends get divorced without lawyers. 29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 This may be the case. I know many situations where the couple was planning to have a friendly divorce with no lawyers, but one or both of them was secretly consulting a lawyer on the side. My own parents went into their divorce planning on mediation, but my father decided to go secretly consult the best lawyer in town . . . only to find that my mother had already consulted him. OP: If I had a real-life friend in this situation, I would seriously drive straight to her house, force her into my car, and drive her to an attorney myself. Depending on the financial situation, I would probably give her the cash to pay the lawyer's consultation fee. Friends don't let friends get divorced without lawyers. Consults are normally free. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 And divorce lawyer and mediation are not mutually exclusive. You can have both. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthwestMom Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 OP: If I had a real-life friend in this situation, I would seriously drive straight to her house, force her into my car, and drive her to an attorney myself. Depending on the financial situation, I would probably give her the cash to pay the lawyer's consultation fee. Friends don't let friends get divorced without lawyers. :iagree: 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) One problem with telling the daughters is the OP only knows about the girlfriend because she was fiddling with his phone and she shouldn't have been. If they want to shoot the messenger, that'll be something they'll focus on. Edited March 2, 2016 by Rosie_0801 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 One problem with telling the daughters is the OP only knows about the girlfriend because she was fiddling with his phone and she shouldn't have been. If they want to shoot the messenger, that'll be something they'll focus on. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendy not in HI Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Living rent free can affect your divorce settlement. You'll be perceived as not needing as much because your costs are lower. That's what the divorce attorney told my step-brother last summer during his divorce. I think it's great that you have a cheap housing option for AFTER the divorce. It will still be there in a few months, when things are settled. You haven't moved, yet, so just push back the date a few weeks, then a few weeks more. No need to tell him you are not moving out if you don't want to, but please continue to stay in your own home! I'm sure it is uncomfortable and you want your own space, but just wait it out! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 One problem with telling the daughters is the OP only knows about the girlfriend because she was fiddling with his phone and she shouldn't have been. If they want to shoot the messenger, that'll be something they'll focus on. She should have been fiddling with his phone a year ago. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Phone alarms are seriously annoying. I would, and have, fiddle with anyone's phone going off in my home if they were in the shower. I wouldn't characterize how she found out as her doing something she shouldn't. They are still legally married and living together. She saw something trying to stop the noise in her own home. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Maybe he is amicable. Maybe he is on the up and up. Now. But as things get more serious with his girlfriend, she is going to be putting pressure on him to look after himself and not you. It might be subtle, but it will be there. Have you ever watched the opening scene of Sense and Sensibility? A man and his wife have found out they've inherited a boatload of money. At the beginning of their carriage ride, the man is planning on sharing the money with his sister (who, as a woman, cannot inherit a penny on her own). A few minutes later in the ride, his wife has convinced him to share less than what he'd planned. A few minutes later in the ride, his wife has convinced him to share even less than what he'd planned. By the time the carriage ride is over, she's somehow talked him into sharing pretty much nothing and his sister and nieces are plunged into poverty. Once there's a 3rd person in the picture, things change. Why haven't you consulted with a lawyer? Do not move out. Just don't do it. They can't make you go. Become a squatter and just...stay. And get a lawyer. The sister in Sense and Sensibility had no legal protection. You do. Take it. 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Phone alarms are seriously annoying. I would, and have, fiddle with anyone's phone going off in my home if they were in the shower. I wouldn't characterize how she found out as her doing something she shouldn't. They are still legally married and living together. She saw something trying to stop the noise in her own home. You're right, the op did nothing wrong but I could see Rosie's point that it could potentially complicate things if she chose to tell them. Who has their texts pop up on their lock screen if they don't really want to get caught anyway? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 You're right, the op did nothing wrong but I could see Rosie's point that it could potentially complicate things if she chose to tell them. Who has their texts pop up on their lock screen if they don't really want to get caught anyway? I didn't know there was a way to stop that happening! All of our phones here do it. It's just something I thought was normal and I have never looked into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I didn't know there was a way to stop that happening! All of our phones here do it. I can turn off notifications showing up on my lock screen under settings on my iphone. My curious kids like to peep when messages show up on my locked screen. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulasue Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 As a daughter of an adulterer, if he didn't want her to see the messages on the phone, she would not have seen it. He would have protected the phone better, disabling pop up messages, keeping it with him, or etc. She probably found out because he was ready for her to find out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommybee Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 As a daughter of an adulterer, if he didn't want her to see the messages on the phone, she would not have seen it. He would have protected the phone better, disabling pop up messages, keeping it with him, or etc. She probably found out because he was ready for her to find out. I found out when my spouse was dating a woman with a name similar to mine and he texted me instead of her. Some men don't seem to think that far ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I found out when my spouse was dating a woman with a name similar to mine and he texted me instead of her. Some men don't seem to think that far ahead. Good lord. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 One problem with telling the daughters is the OP only knows about the girlfriend because she was fiddling with his phone and she shouldn't have been. If they want to shoot the messenger, that'll be something they'll focus on. He left the phone openly on a bedside table, the table beside the bed he was sharing with his actual wife. The actual wife would have no reason to think she shouldn't touch the phone. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Living rent free can affect your divorce settlement. You'll be perceived as not needing as much because your costs are lower. That's what the divorce attorney told my step-brother last summer during his divorce. Yep, same in my state--my colleague's in-law is in a similar situation, paying a relative full-value rent for the time being. But as things get more serious with his girlfriend, she is going to be putting pressure on him to look after himself and not you. And I'm sorry to say this, but he's in love with her. She need not be a bad person. He may have told her any number of things, but whatever he said, either (a) she is a horrible person with no regard for commitments, OR (b) he has effectively told her either that you are already divorced and that you're okay with this, even possibly offering fake texts as an excuse or something OR (c ) he has really thrown you under the bus. My ex-husband lied to me about being divorced, but not just me. After we started dating, he knew I'd ask around to make sure he was really divorced, and he lied to a lot of people including his ex-wife's brother and mom with whom he worked tangentially. I asked his ex-wife's own brother what the deal was, not wanting to bug her, as well as asking mutual acquaintances that we all worked with. Lesson learned: ALWAYS ask the ex-wife directly. He had been trashing her left and right. :( I only found out from the processing dates on the divorce certificate, what the real deal had been. We already had a child at the time. :cursing: So, seriously. Don't count on anyone's good nature. In my case, of course I didn't try to get him to protect himself as I thought it was a done deal. But who knows what he's said. It must be something, because most women wouldn't want to date a man who is actively cheating on a woman who thought she was in a marriage (withering / ending though it might be). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I'm imagining a scenario where the op moves out, Other Woman moves in, she gets pregnant, and they decide to stay IN the house. They sabotage showings and refuse offers on the house because she likes the local schools or something. It's not enough to trust HIM (and he's NOT trustworthy). He's not making decisions alone and OPs best interest is NOT a factor. SHE WILL MOVE IN THE DAY YOU MOVE OUT. If she has children, they'll move in and now you're showing a house where kids are living. STAY STAY STAY STAY. You have the rest of your life to "just move on." You're the only one in this triangle who isn't thinking with her genitals. Stay cool and wait them out. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 He left the phone openly on a bedside table, the table beside the bed he was sharing with his actual wife. The actual wife would have no reason to think she shouldn't touch the phone. For the record, I'd have been angry if an actual spouse I still liked was fiddling with my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Yeah, we don't have super secret phones here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joules Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I've known women who have been burned, too. I hope you have had the time to consult an attorney. The "staying in the house" thing is more important in some states than others. I know we are all strangers and you know your situation best, but sometimes when everyone else is yelling "Fire," there really is one. A recent example on the forum comes to mind: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/586861-what-can-go-wrong-update-in-149 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingiguana Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 My kids would want to know what was up and they would want me to tell them. They would also want their father to tell them, but if he wasn't forthcoming they would understand that I couldn't force it out of him. I don't think you should be hiding anything or keeping secrets in this situation. Your kids are part of your family and you have a relationship with them. It's not only perfectly ok to tell them, it may be better for all of you in the long run to have some honesty. It doesn't need to be a big vent if you're uncomfortable with that or see it as immature. Just state the facts -- and tell the kids it's because you think they should know so they understand what's going on. If I were in this situation, I also would not be trusting the spouse to tell the truth or be fair. He is no longer the only party involved on his side, even if he was/is a good honest guy who would never hurt the me if he were still married to me. He's not still married to me. His perceptions as to who is family have changed. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 For the record, I'd have been angry if an actual spouse I still liked was fiddling with my phone. Not me. But I am probably a little touchy on the issue from my own experiences with a spouse leading a double life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 My kids would want to know what was up and they would want me to tell them. They would also want their father to tell them, but if he wasn't forthcoming they would understand that I couldn't force it out of him. I don't think you should be hiding anything or keeping secrets in this situation. Your kids are part of your family and you have a relationship with them. It's not only perfectly ok to tell them, it may be better for all of you in the long run to have some honesty. It doesn't need to be a big vent if you're uncomfortable with that or see it as immature. Just state the facts -- and tell the kids it's because you think they should know so they understand what's going on.. This is an important point.....I belive like you kids should know the basic facts. Not the gory details, not venom from one parent to another, not high drama. Of all the things I have done with regard to my divorce I am most sure telling Ds the reason ( because his dad was having an affair) was the right thing to do. Initially, thanks to good counsel, I was calm and said only what was necessary. I think the advice to keep it from the kids comes from the harm that can be done by parents who are mean spirited or high drama or use the kids to hurt the other spouse etc. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 For the record, I'd have been angry if an actual spouse I still liked was fiddling with my phone. Maybe so, but in this case, adultery trumps phone-fiddling. Thank goodness she found out when she did. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 For the record, I'd have been angry if an actual spouse I still liked was fiddling with my phone. If the phone's alarm clock keeps going off when he's already up and out of the room, his choice would be me swiping the screen to turn the alarm off or hurling it against the wall until it stopped. (From someone whose loved spouse has issues with the snooze button and alarm clocks) :D 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 His perceptions as to who is family have changed. That's it. That's the perfect wording. That's exactly what has just happened. People will do anything for their family...and his family has changed. His loyalties have switched sides. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 That's it. That's the perfect wording. That's exactly what has just happened. People will do anything for their family...and his family has changed. His loyalties have switched sides. People absolutely underestimate the strength of those loyalties. Or to put it another way, the innocent spouse, whose loyalty is still with her husband because married, cannot understand that her soul is no longer important to her husband. :crying: 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 People absolutely underestimate the strength of those loyalties. Or to put it another way, the innocent spouse, whose loyalty is still with her husband because married, cannot understand that her soul is no longer important to her husband. :crying: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) . Edited November 8, 2016 by ErinE 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopskipjump Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 If *I* were the daughter(s) in question, I would want to know ASAP. If I found out years later from a family member, friend, dad, whoever... I would be livid. NOT knowing that information would frame the way I would have reacted to certain situations throughout that time - and if I'd taken dad's side on something (thinking my mom was being overly-dramatic)... and then found out that mom was being appropriately-dramatic because the "new" girlfriend I'd just met was actually The One Who Was Dating Dad While He Was Still Married... well, I would feel like crap. I don't believe suffering in silence - in familial situations - is beneficial to anyone. Like in Sense and Sensibility when Mariann makes all the thoughtless "you just don't understand about lovvvve" comments to Elinor... while having zero idea of what Elinor was going through herself. Ugh! OP doesn't have to go all dad-bashing, mama-drama on the daughters. Just a simple relaying of said information is sufficient. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Once my parent re-married, I certainly felt loyalties were switched to the new person. Whenever I wanted to talk to my parent, the New Person needed to be involved, which upset me because I found out about New Person just before the divorce was final and I wasn't really interested at that time in spending time with New Person. New Person was very free in sharing opinions about my relationship with my parent, which only caused a larger rift. I was an adult, being treated like a child, by someone I'd just met. As I said at the time, while I can tolerate a wide range of things from my parents, I won't put up with it from a complete stranger. OP, the daughters will find out about the relationship, they'll ask if you knew, and wonder why you didn't tell them. Tell your STBX that he needs to tell them this weekend or you will tell them yourself. Yes. Except I would not wait for the husband to tell.....his version is not likely to be the Truth. I find it highly unlikely he began this affair in January after they told the daughters in December. I would be finding out. Phone records will tell the tale. But that is just me. I dont like being played for a fool and information is power. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 If *I* were the daughter(s) in question, I would want to know ASAP. If I found out years later from a family member, friend, dad, whoever... I would be livid. NOT knowing that information would frame the way I would have reacted to certain situations throughout that time - and if I'd taken dad's side on something (thinking my mom was being overly-dramatic)... and then found out that mom was being appropriately-dramatic because the "new" girlfriend I'd just met was actually The One Who Was Dating Dad While He Was Still Married... well, I would feel like crap. I don't believe suffering in silence - in familial situations - is beneficial to anyone. Like in Sense and Sensibility when Mariann makes all the thoughtless "you just don't understand about lovvvve" comments to Elinor... while having zero idea of what Elinor was going through herself. Ugh! OP doesn't have to go all dad-bashing, mama-drama on the daughters. Just a simple relaying of said information is sufficient. Yes. So much this. I told Ds about the Other Woman. She and Xh would have loved the opportunity to out their relationship post our divorce as all above board. Ds would have felt doubly betrayed if I had gone along with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 For the record, I'd have been angry if an actual spouse I still liked was fiddling with my phone. It depends on what you mean by fiddling. Snoping or hacking the phone would be different ethically. I answer calls to my hubby's phone if he is driving which means I have ended up talking to his boss. Hubby also tells me to look at notifications if he is in the bathroom or napping if he is working from home that day. My kids and I know his phone's passcode. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAPeachie Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 It depends on what you mean by fiddling. Snoping or hacking the phone would be different ethically. I answer calls to my hubby's phone if he is driving which means I have ended up talking to his boss. Hubby also tells me to look at notifications if he is in the bathroom or napping if he is working from home that day. My kids and I know his phone's passcode. Exactly. I have often answered my husband's cell (paid for by work) phone when he couldn't quite make it to the phone in time. I've also responded to texts while he is driving and looked through past messages as he has asked to get a certain bit of information and copied and pasted it messages. We have an open door policy on phones, internet usage and whereabouts though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) Maybe so, but in this case, adultery trumps phone-fiddling. Thank goodness she found out when she did. Oh, for sure. I was just pointing out that a mind could go there if they wanted to shoot the messenger. Forewarned is forearmed there too. Edited March 3, 2016 by Rosie_0801 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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