What can go wrong? Update in #149

[Guest]

Pretty sure this only applies if they've actually moved in/taken possession. She isn't flushing them out, she's not allowing them to take possession until the agreed upon (in the lease) date. But I agree, you can't change locks on a tenant if they are currently living there no matter how much they screw you over in a lot of states.

 

Unless they were very savvy and moved in as soon as they were done talking to OP's DH.

 

OTOH, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. But if they have a piece of paper that says they can move in on x date, and she changes the locks before then and before they are in there, I don't think they (the tenants) would have a case against her.

Yeah, I wasn't understanding the situation quite like this...I was thinking of the terms of the Lease as, say, February 1 is the start date, but DH gave them the keys and permission to move in now without anything beyond a promise of money on Feb 15. If the Lease doesn't actually begin until the 15th, but DH gave them keys and verbal permission to move in, I am not sure how the law would apply.

 

I know one thing: if I told the clerk of court, or sheriff, that we gave them the keys, even though the Lease was not in effect yet, and we didn't get a penny in-hand to allow them to move in, they would look at me like I had two heads. That is one reason I don't know if Peaceful can do diddly squat about it until Feb 16th, if no rent/security deposits come by then. I guess they may be able to change the locks if the Lease is not in effect yet, but it will still start off the interactions with the new tenant on a very bad foot. Peaceful and her DH are going to look like total idiots if the tenant attempts to move in, but finds the keys don't turn the locks. Peaceful and her DH are also going to look like idiots no matter how they tell the tenants, "Oopsie! He didn't actually mean you could move in yet! Surely he wouldn't mean go ahead and move in when we don't have anything from you but a couple of post-dated checks that might be made of rubber! Pretty please give us back the keys and don't move in yet." I cringe just thinking about it.

[creekland]

I guess I'd word it more along the lines of, "I'm sorry, but we got thinking about it a bit more last night and we really can't take the risk of letting you move in early with post-dated checks.  I'm sure you mean well, but we were expecting the rent/security deposit when we met as we were told we would get it then.  We really do need it before you move in."

 

If asked why, I'd probably mention that there are too many horror stories out there.

 

In reality, not getting the money as promised would set up so many red flags I'd really want to be looking for new tenants rather than signing a lease with them.  They've already shown they can't be trusted and waited until they met you before 'fessing up.  That's a bad first trait and I seriously doubt life will be getting any better with them.  It's possible.  It's just not likely and after our last experience with a tenant who had been paying as agreed until disability hit... I'd seriously wonder if they could afford the place.

[Spryte]

I don't know how the laws apply here, but I would suggest that you notify them in writing (certified mail, sent today, along with probably a phone call so they don't start moving in immediately) that you need the deposit and first month's rent before they move in.  I would probably change the locks, too, today.  This is too risky.

 

 

 

 

Not to be a downer, but this is exactly the reason we sold our house last Aug.  We were all set to use it as a rental, but there were some horror stories here on WTM, and I could totally see getting into a situation like this, as an inexperienced landlord.  I would have been a wreck every month, waiting on the rent check, and it wouldn't have been worth it.   I'm so sorry.  FWIW, our house sold in 13 days, closed in 25 from the date we put it on the market.  If you're not determined to use it as a rental, have you thought of selling?  

Edited February 9, 2016 by Spryte

[idnib]

One previous landlord, but they stayed there for 10 years. The landlord sounded trustworthy, said they were good tenants, very clean and paid on time except a couple of times (but then gave a warning and were apologetic.)

 

I appreciated the sister was honest, she didn't have to say she was her sister. The sister is the office manager, and the tenant is a temp there at the reception, but only since fall. In a legal office.

 

Is this reassuring? We are really not that great at being landlords.

 

I agree with everyone that this has the potential for serious problems. Change the locks immediately. Many states have rights for tenants once they move in, not when the lease begins. Some tenants do this serially until they finally get evicted and then move on to another place. And if there is a serious problem like a fire, or your property gets damaged and they have no active lease, your insurance will have one more thing to use against you.

 

And talking to the current landlord is not reassuring at all. Often the current landlord will say anything to get rid of problem tenants. Next time talk to the landlord before the current one, as they have nothing to lose by telling the truth. And ask the questions only a landlord would know, as mentioned above.

[Tess in the Burbs]

we rented the first house we owned when dh took a job cross country.  I lucked out and found a lady at work wanting to rent it...with intentions to purchase it in the near future.  Oh my gosh, I was a mess waiting on her check, getting payment in on time...it was before electronic banking was widespread.  I had set up repairs through a warranty company, but she would call asking about things.  I am 3k miles away and unable to help.  I found out later she almost backed out of the sale.  She had planned to move out and try to sublease without permission.  When she did finally sell we still had a title issue we found out years later when we moved back and bought another home in the same city.  We are not cut out to be landlords LOL.  I know now how lucky we were.  And I think b/c I knew her personally it helped her not totally ruin the situation.  

[SproutMamaK]

And talking to the current landlord is not reassuring at all. Often the current landlord will say anything to get rid of problem tenants. Next time talk to the landlord before the current one, as they have nothing to lose by telling the truth. And ask the questions only a landlord would know, as mentioned above.

 

From our experience as landlords... sometimes the reference isn't even a current landlord. It's a buddy that was willing to help when he heard "Hey man, I need a reference for this place, can you say you're my landlord?"

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by SproutMamaK

[OneStepAtATime]

Hoping things are o.k. and your DH is accepting that this is something you both need to actively try to address right now.  Hugs and good luck.

[38carrots]

Well, DH thinks that if they don't pay on the 15th, he won't let him move in. He plans to take the day off and be there. I'll be there too. He doesn't want to change the locks because this would ruin the "relationship."

 

One thing, that I think DH is banking on, is that he is a public prosecutor, and the tenants know this. So he must be hoping that this would be a sufficient deterrend for scammers. But if they are experienced scammers, they probably don't care.

 

 

[EmseB]

Well, DH thinks that if they don't pay on the 15th, he won't let him move in. He plans to take the day off and be there. I'll be there too. He doesn't want to change the locks because this would ruin the "relationship."

 

One thing, that I think DH is banking on, is that he is a public prosecutor, and the tenants know this. So he must be hoping that this would be a sufficient deterrend for scammers. But if they are experienced scammers, they probably don't care.

But didn't he tell them they could move in sooner? Aren't they planning on moving in before the 15th (before paying anything)? That's the problem; once they have possession if they don't pay you're up a creek.

 

And wait...your DH *is* a lawyer and he's thinking this an okay way to enter a contract/lease? I guess he has more resources than most if necessary.

Edited February 9, 2016 by JodiSue

[PrairieSong]

Well, DH thinks that if they don't pay on the 15th, he won't let him move in. He plans to take the day off and be there. I'll be there too. He doesn't want to change the locks because this would ruin the "relationship."

 

One thing, that I think DH is banking on, is that he is a public prosecutor, and the tenants know this. So he must be hoping that this would be a sufficient deterrend for scammers. But if they are experienced scammers, they probably don't care.

If they have keys they could move in anytime. They might not wait until the 15th. That's what would worry me. The fact that your dh is a prosecutor is not going to get them out of your property any faster if they fail to pay you, I don't think. I really, really hope this all works out for you.

[barnwife]

Well, DH thinks that if they don't pay on the 15th, he won't let him move in. He plans to take the day off and be there. I'll be there too. He doesn't want to change the locks because this would ruin the "relationship."

 

One thing, that I think DH is banking on, is that he is a public prosecutor, and the tenants know this. So he must be hoping that this would be a sufficient deterrend for scammers. But if they are experienced scammers, they probably don't care.

I'm sorry; I don't really understand this update.

 

Do the (potential) renters not have the keys? Because if they do...nothing has changed. You or DH needs to be at the rental right at this moment. You need to be there every. single. moment. until you have cash in hand and/or the keys back.

 

I really, really, really want to yell what I just wrote. 

 

Do not take this risk. Get yourself there and take care of this yourself as your husband apparently is not capable of doing so.

 

 

[Tsuga]

:mellow:

 

They are lying. They don't have a deposit. They will say you promised they could stay there. They know someone who has a lawyer. They will dig in their heels and tell lies about you. They will trash the place when you say they have to pay rent.

 

CHANGE THE LOCKS, e-mail them that there was a misunderstanding and you need a CASH DEPOSIT RIGHT NOW or they will not move in and you are re-listing the rental until they come up with a deposit.

 

Unless you plan to run a charity for families who are homeless, which would be wonderful of you, do not let them set foot in the house.

 

If your husband would like to help a poor family, the YWCA has excellent programs to help the homeless get jobs, subsidized housing, counseling, etc. It would maybe help him alleviate whatever feelings he has wanting to be nice to people who don't hold up their end of the bargain, and then you can rent out your house to someone who can and will pay.

[38carrots]

I'm sorry; I don't really understand this update.

 

Do the (potential) renters not have the keys? Because if they do...nothing has changed. You or DH needs to be at the rental right at this moment. You need to be there every. single. moment. until you have cash in hand and/or the keys back.

 

I really, really, really want to yell what I just wrote. 

 

Do not take this risk. Get yourself there and take care of this yourself as your husband apparently is not capable of doing so.

 

 

 

Well, DH decided to take the risk. Whatever. I can't out-argue him. He feels that we are basically in the same boat if a new tenant paid the deposit, paid for the first month, and then stopped paying. At least he wants to be there on Monday.

 

[Tsuga]

Well, DH decided to take the risk. Whatever. I can't out-argue him. He feels that we are basically in the same boat if a new tenant paid the deposit, paid for the first month, and then stopped paying. At least he wants to be there on Monday.

 

 

But you don't have a penny, do you?

 

The checks could bounce!

 

I am a tenant, have been since the start of the recession. I don't say this lightly. I wish we could trust people more. I usually have had to pay first and last cashed before getting keys, first month's rent on the first.

 

He is taking a bigger risk than he can imagine. We've heard horrible stories, not online, but in real life, from  my mom's friends and others. 

 

Edited to add: no landlord has ever had to kiss my butt for the sake of a "relationship". This is a business relationship 100%. I have superb references which will serve me well in case I am ever in a bind. Those include leaving apartments spotless, paying fully, paying on time even when I was a single mom and even after my ex-h lost his job. That's what keeps up the relationship. For their part they have always been responsible and responsive to needs such as major plumbing issues or reimbursing purchase for energy efficient products from the power company.

 

The relationship has never come from them putting up with my bullcrap, such as not bringing a deposit. That sets the wrong tone entirely.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Tsuga

[barnwife]

Well, DH decided to take the risk. Whatever. I can't out-argue him. He feels that we are basically in the same boat if a new tenant paid the deposit, paid for the first month, and then stopped paying. At least he wants to be there on Monday.

 

Okay. You don't have to out-argue him. You merely need to say that you are not okay with this level of risk and what you will be doing because of that.

 

IOW:

 

"DH, I am not comfortable with the level of risk that you are asking us to undertake. Do you want to brainstorm solutions to lessen the risk or should I do so myself?" (Actually, my second sentence would be more along the lines of "Therefore I am going to the rental. I will not be leaving until I have the cash and/or the keys.")

 

FWIW, I am a landlord idiot. DH does everything for ours. Everything. And yet, if he ever told me that he'd gotten us into the situation you seem to be in, I'd absolutely act as I just described. After saying that to him, I'd pack a suitcase and go the rental prepared to stay.

 

 

[TammyS]

Well, DH thinks that if they don't pay on the 15th, he won't let him move in. He plans to take the day off and be there. I'll be there too. He doesn't want to change the locks because this would ruin the "relationship."

 

One thing, that I think DH is banking on, is that he is a public prosecutor, and the tenants know this. So he must be hoping that this would be a sufficient deterrend for scammers. But if they are experienced scammers, they probably don't care.

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by TammyS

[Tsuga]

I am tempted to send list after list of reddit's worst landlord stories but it would be too traumatizing. But none of them compare to the actual in-real-life story I heard from my mom's friend. Drugs, fire, torching the kitchen, gasoline on rags in the pipes, NEED I GO ON. Because she was "being a b*$^&" and not letting them stay rent free because "this is our home!"

 

'Cause she's some fat cat, not a lady whose retirement is 100% in the property she inherited in middle age after her divorce, right?

 

Arrrrrrgggghhhhh.

[knoxinsox]

We also rent.  We moved in November.  We put down a money order for the deposit to hold the rental so they could take it off the market while they checked our references/credit.  Before we got the keys, we met at the rental office and went through almost an hour of paperwork, and another money order for the rent.  Then we got the keys.  They would only take a money order or cashier' check for those 2 payments.  We pay by check now, but I can understand the caution.  

 

 

 

[QueenCat]

Okay. You don't have to out-argue him. You merely need to say that you are not okay with this level of risk and what you will be doing because of that.

 

IOW:

 

"DH, I am not comfortable with the level of risk that you are asking us to undertake. Do you want to brainstorm solutions to lessen the risk or should I do so myself?" (Actually, my second sentence would be more along the lines of "Therefore I am going to the rental. I will not be leaving until I have the cash and/or the keys.")

 

FWIW, I am a landlord idiot. DH does everything for ours. Everything. And yet, if he ever told me that he'd gotten us into the situation you seem to be in, I'd absolutely act as I just described. After saying that to him, I'd pack a suitcase and go the rental prepared to stay.

 

 

 

This!

 

[QueenCat]

Well, DH decided to take the risk. Whatever. I can't out-argue him. He feels that we are basically in the same boat if a new tenant paid the deposit, paid for the first month, and then stopped paying. At least he wants to be there on Monday.

 

 

Is your name not on the deed for the property? Are you not legally responsible for it as well? If you are, then you also have the right to protect your property. And MONDAY is too late if he already gave the keys. The moment they take possession is when they start moving in, not the date on the lease. At this point, I'd go see if they've started moving in. If not, I'd IMMEDIATELY take steps to protect my property. If you don't change the locks, then you are saying that you are OKAY with them living there even if they don't pay up.

[PrairieSong]

But you don't have a penny, do you?

 

The checks could bounce!

 

I am a tenant, have been since the start of the recession. I don't say this lightly. I wish we could trust people more. I usually have had to pay first and last cashed before getting keys, first month's rent on the first.

 

He is taking a bigger risk than he can imagine. We've heard horrible stories, not online, but in real life, from my mom's friends and others.

 

Edited to add: no landlord has ever had to kiss my butt for the sake of a "relationship". This is a business relationship 100%. I have superb references which will serve me well in case I am ever in a bind. Those include leaving apartments spotless, paying fully, paying on time even when I was a single mom and even after my ex-h lost his job. That's what keeps up the relationship. For their part they have always been responsible and responsive to needs such as major plumbing issues or reimbursing purchase for energy efficient products from the power company.

 

The relationship has never come from them putting up with my bullcrap, such as not bringing a deposit. That sets the wrong tone entirely.

Exactly this. You don't need to worry about "ruining a relationship". This is professional. You can still be courteous, but you must insist they play by your rules. As for the horror stories, I have a few of my own. Holes in walls (from one room clear into the next), dog urine and feces on carpet, toilet that had leaked into the basement but they didn't bother to tell us, trash and cockroaches everywhere, rooms painted black with black paint slopped onto ceiling and wood trim. One tenant stole our stove. Yes, we reported it. I think he sold it. Did I mention a fire that authorities think was purposely set???? I don't know think that one was ever proved. What a nightmare. One lady piled her garbage in her back yard from November (we found the notice from trash co stopping service) until March when she moved out. Well I couldn't blame her. It was starting to warm up then.

 

I have had it with tenants who will smile sweetly and lie to your face, who will lie and cry in front of a judge, who make false promises, who will destroy your property and then even get mad at YOU because you evicted them.

 

I manage the rentals now. DH was in so much of a hurry to get renters into a place that he failed to check them out thoroughly enough. We have some very good renters currently.

 

ETA: Tsuga, I am SO GRATEFUL for renters like you, especially after having seen the dark side. I am always happy to give a very good reference to a potential landlord for excellent tenants.

Edited February 10, 2016 by PrairieSong

[EmseB]

Well, DH decided to take the risk. Whatever. I can't out-argue him. He feels that we are basically in the same boat if a new tenant paid the deposit, paid for the first month, and then stopped paying. At least he wants to be there on Monday.

 

How does he mathematically reconcile having a security deposit + first month's rent as being in the same boat as having zero dollars?

 

In your shoes I'd be doing what I felt necessary to protect myself at this point if he won't listen to reason. It might all be fine and then he can gloat all he wants. If it goes TU you're taking months of lost income and thousands of dollars besides.

[idnib]

Hmmm. I think you'd better get over there if you can at all. And don't worry about ruining a relationship with them. They should also understand that it's for their protection as well, so they don't get blamed for anything that happens while they are there without a proper inspection checklist, etc. If they don't understand that, it's better to know that now.

[38carrots]

I would start by sending them an email saying this:

 

Hello,

 

How are you today?

 

I'm writing to clarify information regarding move-in, rental payment, etc.  I'm afraid it may have been unclear.

 

Move-in day needs to remain on the previously stated date, February 16 (or later).  One month rent plus security deposit needs to be paid in full before move-in, and the security deposit needs to be paid in cash.  If first month rent is paid by check, it will need to be cleared before move-in.  This is our protocol and we need to abide by these terms.

 

I'm sure you understand that we need to take all precautions in order to maintain our rental property.

 

Thank you,

 

XXXX

 

**********

 

Then, I'd either change the locks or something similar...  I've seen real estate agents who put an extra type of lock (it looks kind of like a giant padlock) on the door.  So, the regular lock is left unlocked, but the agent has a key to these added locks.  

 

Maybe that's against the law, but if they are being deceitful, they will not want anything to do with the law I imagine, and if they're honest, then I think they'd understand.

 

So DH just agreed to send the above, slightly modified. We decided we'll act based on their reply. If they don't reply within a day, we will change the locks, because we would consider them dishonest. If they reply and want to talk to us about it, we will rent to them.

 

Fingers crosssed.

 

We were just contacted by another potential tenant that seems pretty much perfect, and who communicated with us in the same way as we communicate with people, like, full sentences.

 

[creekland]

We were just contacted by another potential tenant that seems pretty much perfect, and who communicated with us in the same way as we communicate with people, like, full sentences.

 

 

Good tenants are worth their weight in gold.  Bad tenants pretty much define that there's evil in this world and make you want to sell everything and live in a cave.  So-so tenants cause all sorts of stress and headaches.

 

Just sayin'... from our experiences.

 

Fortunately, most of our tenants have been good.  They've also paid up front and when they've said they would.  The rare time there's an issue they let us know ahead of time with a solid plan and an apology (even when it really isn't needed like with a snowstorm or similar).  And yes, they use real sentences...

 

It's rare that one sees consensus on the Hive, but this is one of those threads...

 

Again... just sayin'.

[TranquilMind]

Well, DH thinks that if they don't pay on the 15th, he won't let him move in. He plans to take the day off and be there. I'll be there too. He doesn't want to change the locks because this would ruin the "relationship."

 

One thing, that I think DH is banking on, is that he is a public prosecutor, and the tenants know this. So he must be hoping that this would be a sufficient deterrend for scammers. But if they are experienced scammers, they probably don't care.

What? They are probably already there. He is not thinking this through.

Go check. Change the locks asap if not. Consider landlord locks.com. You can change our cylinders in a few seconds between tenants. But Lowes will work for now.

[TammyS]

So DH just agreed to send the above, slightly modified. We decided we'll act based on their reply. If they don't reply within a day, we will change the locks, because we would consider them dishonest. If they reply and want to talk to us about it, we will rent to them.

 

Fingers crosssed.

 

We were just contacted by another potential tenant that seems pretty much perfect, and who communicated with us in the same way as we communicate with people, like, full sentences.

 

 

I'm going to say it again.  Sell the property. Your dh is not cut out to be a landlord.  Even if this situation doesn't blow up in your face (about a 90% chance that it will), you ARE going to suffer doing business in this manner.  It's not if, it's when. 

 

Sell now while you still have something of value.

[38carrots]

What? They are probably already there. He is not thinking this through.

Go check. Change the locks asap if not. Consider landlord locks.com. You can change our cylinders in a few seconds between tenants. But Lowes will work for now.

 

They are not there. My friend lives across from them, she'll let me know.

[QueenCat]

They are not there. My friend lives across from them, she'll let me know.

 

Once they unlock the doors and start moving, it's TOO late to do anything.

[38carrots]

Once they unlock the doors and start moving, it's TOO late to do anything.

 

Yeah, I get it. I'm glad DH is at least doing *something* about it, albeit slowly. It's progress already. He does have friends in the police department, so I think he feels he can show up with police easily enough.

[QueenCat]

Yeah, I get it. I'm glad DH is at least doing *something* about it, albeit slowly. It's progress already. He does have friends in the police department, so I think he feels he can show up with police easily enough.

 

And what can the police do once he's given them the keys? They aren't trespassing.......... I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, and really wish you'd consider just meeting a locksmith there before it's too late.

[Carol in Cal.]

Please understand something about this.

 

Once they 'take possession' of the property, the whole game changes.

 

And once they move something in, they have 'taken possession'.

 

I really hope that they are as honest as you hope, but this sounds VERY bad.

 

Unverifiable and unstable income, no real references, no money (NO MONEY!), and wanting everything in their favor completely--these are very bad signs.  These people cannot keep their word or they would have given you money.  And your husband cannot say no or he would have said, "We will need to have that first check in certified funds before we turn over the property to you.  And, no, you can't move in early.  please understand that that would raise liability issues for both of us.  If you would like to start the rental agreement on 2/15 instead of 3/1, we can write it that way, but of course I will still need those certified funds at that time.  Let me know what you'd like to do!"

 

Nothing is necessarily going to make these people start keeping their word, nor give your husband the kind of spine that being a good landlord requires.

 

Change the locks.  Now.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Carol in Cal.

[TechWife]

Yeah, I get it. I'm glad DH is at least doing *something* about it, albeit slowly. It's progress already. He does have friends in the police department, so I think he feels he can show up with police easily enough.

 

The police aren't going to break laws to help him, even if they are friends. Squatters rights are a very real thing. If they have already moved in, any legitimate police officer is going to insist that the proper eviction procedure be followed. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

They are not there. My friend lives across from them, she'll let me know.

By the time your neighbor notices them moving in, it will be too late. They will have possession and you will be forced into a lengthy eviction process.  I really cannot understand why you would delay.  I wouldn't be able to sleep for the next week.   Change the locks right now.  You can change them back when they give you the cash that they owe you in order to take possession.  If they don't pay you, you will be proven right and will be able to cancel the lease.  If they do pay you (in cash), then you will still be taking your chances.  You stand to lose a lot.  They stand to lose nothing. 

 

[38carrots]

And what can the police do once he's given them the keys? They aren't trespassing.......... I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, and really wish you'd consider just meeting a locksmith there before it's too late.

 

He thinks that since the lease is not in effect until Feb 15, the *will* be trespassing. I can't find any info on this.

[38carrots]

By the time your neighbor notices them moving in, it will be too late. They will have possession and you will be forced into a lengthy eviction process.  I really cannot understand why you would delay.  I wouldn't be able to sleep for the next week.   Change the locks right now.  You can change them back when they give you the cash that they owe you in order to take possession.  If they don't pay you, you will be proven right and will be able to cancel the lease.  If they do pay you (in cash), then you will still be taking your chances.  You stand to lose a lot.  They stand to lose nothing. 

 

DH says that them moving their possessions in is not the same as them moving in. Is this correct?

[justasque]

DH says that them moving their possessions in is not the same as them moving in. Is this correct?

What state are you in?  The laws are different in each state.

 

Your DH is naive and playing with fire.  

Edited February 10, 2016 by justasque

[elegantlion]

Waiting until Monday will probably be too late, my suspicion. Don't most people move on the weekend? If one party is disabled, they may be relying on friends and family to help. More people have free time on the weekends. 

 

I do hope they reply to your e-mail and that everything works out all right for you. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

DH says that them moving their possessions in is not the same as them moving in. Is this correct?

I am 99% sure that your husband is incorrect, that there is no difference.  Who is to say that they have not moved in?  What does that mean?  They have not been trustworthy thus far and they could very easily claim that they have "moved in."  I don't think your dh is cut out to be a landlord if he is not willing to be become an expert in landlord/tenant law.  He clearly does not have a grasp of the seriousness of this situation. 

[Guest]

Well, DH decided to take the risk. Whatever. I can't out-argue him. He feels that we are basically in the same boat if a new tenant paid the deposit, paid for the first month, and then stopped paying. At least he wants to be there on Monday.

 

No, you are NOT in the same boat. There's a reason it is called a *security* deposit. You do not have a penny yet, correct? This is not the same boat as having $2,000 or however much it is and THEN having to begin eviction proceedings.

 

That said, I do agree with your DH about one thing: changing the locks after he told them they could move in would set the relationship up as hostile. In my relationship with my DH, he is IMO too quick to play hardball, so sometimes - it actually happened this very day - he admits he was too quick to play the route of eviction proceedings with someone I wanted to give more time (good history with the person, has always cauht up in the past when he hit a rouh patch, etc.) so, if this were our own rental, I would actually also be very reluctant to change the locks.

 

But, no, you MUST get some actual dough before you put keys in anyone's hands. I was telling DH about this thread and he told me he has let people move in early so it wouldn't be such a cram-rush, but he still had the security deposit at least.

[zoobie]

DH says that them moving their possessions in is not the same as them moving in. Is this correct?

What state? You can't lock away someone's possessions from them. You gave them keys. They're not B&E here. You can change the locks until the lease takes effect, but you need to figure out legally how to inform them they don't have a place before they rent a u-haul.

[OneStepAtATime]

DH says that them moving their possessions in is not the same as them moving in. Is this correct?

It depends on the state and sometimes this is a really tricky area but mostly no, if they move their stuff in then they are now your tenants and have rights they did not have before they moved their stuff in.  Has your DH actually done any real, solid research or is he just banking on his legal background as a scare tactic?

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I am sending you good vibes.  I know what it is like to work with a stubborn spouse who cannot or will not see the potential danger of the situation in front of them.  

 

I know you don't want to press too hard but honestly every single day that passes is a day they could move their belongings in and take possession.  It won't matter if your friend calls and tells you they are moving in.  By the time you could get there it will be too late.  You don't have to be ugly.  Just clear in your business practices.  Explain that there was a misunderstanding and that if they want to move in early they have to pay the money owed, sign the contract, do a walk through and sign a statement of what they see as wrong with the property, etc.  These are standard and necessary business practices and are in place in most renter/landlord situations so BOTH parties are protected.

[Guest]

DH says that them moving their possessions in is not the same as them moving in. Is this correct?

How would that possibly be different? When someone actually does get evicted, what is it that the sheriff comes and chucks out of the house? Their possessions! If "moving out" is when all their stuff leaves, by design or by force, then how is "moving in" anything besides bringing the possessions in?

[zoobie]

He thinks that since the lease is not in effect until Feb 15, the *will* be trespassing. I can't find any info on this.

He gave them keys and permission. They're invited guests on your property. I'd be concerned about liability issues when the lease isn't yet in effect too. There are legal reasons you rent back a house to the sellers if they remain in the house after closing for example.

[justasque]

...  I don't think your dh is cut out to be a landlord if he is not willing to be become an expert in landlord/tenant law.  He clearly does not have a grasp of the seriousness of this situation. 

 

This.  You both need to get up to speed on landlord/tenant law in your state NOW.  

It is not a hostile thing to do things professionally and by-the-book.  It is not a hostile thing to expect your tenants to do the same.  You are not lending a beach house to friends, you are putting an important financial asset into the hands of strangers.  There are reasons landlord/tenant laws are somewhat complex - they have evolved over years and years in an effort to be fair to both parties by laying out the rights and responsibilities of each.  You and your dh need to be absolutely clear on what your responsibilities are so you can be sure to fulfill them, and what your rights are so you can protect your rights (and your assets) as needed.  You also need to understand the law from the perspective of the tenant, so you can be prepared for various situations that may arise, and have a good understanding of how you should respond.  

 

Perhaps you should ask your dh to read this thread.  There are many experienced landlords here who can help him understand the choices and the risks at this point.  Don't make a newbie mistake worse by not following the sage advice offered here.  Dh needs to admit/accept the mistake, and do what is needed to mitigate the potential damage.

  

[Tsuga]

He thinks that since the lease is not in effect until Feb 15, the *will* be trespassing. I can't find any info on this.

 

He gave them the keys.

 

My landlords did criminal background checks on me before I moved in. Because I am a normal law-abiding person this did not concern me in the least.

 

If something like a deposit, background check, etc. bothers the tenants that is such a bad sign. Normal people are not bothered by normal regulations.

 

Good luck to you. This thread is making me nervous and I don't even have a rental.

[justasque]

He gave them keys and permission. They're invited guests on your property. I'd be concerned about liability issues when the lease isn't yet in effect too. There are legal reasons you rent back a house to the sellers if they remain in the house after closing for example.

 

That's a very important point.  For example, will your insurance cover any damage to the house if it is inhabited by people who don't have an active lease?  (Damage being either natural causes (hurricane, snowstorm, fire) or human-caused (damage created by tenants).)  

 

And do I understand right that your dh has given them keys without doing a walk-through and documenting the condition of the house?  Does he realize that you will NEED this documentation when the tenants move out, in order to legally justify keeping any part of their security deposit to cover any damages?  Without it, they can simply claim that the damage was there when they moved in.

 

Again, you're not lending a beach house to friends out of the kindness of your heart (people who you know and trust to care for the property as you would).  You're entering into a business agreement with strangers.  You can be incredibly pleasant and easy to deal with, while still making sure that all of the appropriate legal stuff is in place (the lease), and that your financial interests are protected.

[Reefgazer]

Are you guys new landlords?  I can't imagine an experienced landlord, and a lawyer, exposing themselves to this kind of risk.

Well, DH decided to take the risk. Whatever. I can't out-argue him. He feels that we are basically in the same boat if a new tenant paid the deposit, paid for the first month, and then stopped paying. At least he wants to be there on Monday.
 

 

[eternalsummer]

It is better not to mix business and charity, in my experience.  Run your business well so you can donate profit to charity.  Run your business as a charity and you end up unable to help either the intended charity (in this case, how long can you afford to let someone live free in your property before it becomes a financial burden and costs you $?) or yourself.

 

That said, we've rented before with sparse landlord references, shaky income (including relying on unemployment compensation as income), no $ in the bank (like at all), postdated checks for deposit (still due to clear before move-in date, though), etc.  In roughly 14 years of renting, we've never once been late on the rent and we don't leave places trashed or in disrepair.  We've had good and bad landlords; kind and unkind ones, weird and normal ones.  It has all worked out, more or less.

 

We've had a lot more success with individual owners than with companies; in general the companies have been very slow to fix problems (and often somewhat resistant to it) and have leases that read like legal books.  Our current lease (from a company) is 25 pages long!  The individual owners have been a bit quirky, and sometimes quite dim about how to fix/maintain a house, but less profit-driven and nitpicky.

[Carol in Cal.]

http://www.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/how-renters-work-the-system-to-live-for-free-in-one-of-americas-most-expensive-cities/Content?oid=2168672

 

Worst case scenario.  Of course, rent control plays a part, but the eviction issues are pretty common from one place to another.