At what point do you give up on your kid's handwriting?

[Mommy22alyns]

Sylvia is in 5th grade, will be 11 in March.  She has no developmental delays.  Her handwriting is beyond atrocious.  I am at my wit's end, seriously.  It is SO messy that sometimes she can't read it herself.  Numbers and letters are messy, and in both cursive and print.  I can't lay claim to nice handwriting myself, but this is illegible most of the time.

 

This is my Bad Homeschooling Mom badge.

 

WWYD in this situation?  I tell her over and over, I make her make corrections, she does a handwriting curriculum... she's a smart kid, but she sees absolutely no point in handwriting, so it's unimportant to her, and therefore she's sloppy and careless.

 

Help?

[maize]

I'd let it go, she can type or even dictate written communications for most of her life. Focus on those skills.

[maize]

Though--she may need documentation of dysgraphia for college to get permission to type exams. Hm. Really I think a child who has been taught but still has atrocious handwriting is dysgraphic, that's not just a willful thing kids do for fun.

Edited January 24, 2016 by maize

[Perogi]

Oh, I've wondered the same thing recently!  My 10yo, grade 5 daughter has been doing handwriting curriculum religiously every year since Kindergarten and her handwriting is SO BAD.  I think this is the last year I'm going to bother with handwriting as a subject.

[Tanaqui]

When I was a child, my teachers would likely have asserted that I had no developmental delays, and that my messy, often illegible handwriting was due to my being lazy and careless and also left-handed. If they were feeling generous then, like you, they would have attributed anything I failed to "put effort into" as being something I "saw no point in". Heck, I would have attributed my bad handwriting to the fact that penmanship was totally useless (and also because I was left-handed, always an easy out).

 

My teachers would have been absolutely, 100% wrong. I was wrong. I used that excuse, and I told it to myself, but it wasn't the truth.

 

I'm not suggesting, of course, that your daughter is autistic, as I am. That's probably ridiculous. However, it seems to me that an 11 year old ought to be able to produce handwriting that is at least legible, even if only to the writer, without too much effort or taking too much time on it.

 

My handwriting did eventually improve... after I gave up on writing and learned to type. Now it's as neat as anybody's, although it still looks fairly childish and I don't see that one getting better in this lifetime. Not sure what the connection is between learning to type and my handwriting improving, but it's real.

 

If you're really certain that her poor handwriting is due to lack of motivation, you might try a combination of outright bribery (a set dollar amount for every page of neat copywork or penmanship practice) and the stick (making her rewrite anything that's totally illegible, increasing your standards as her handwriting improves). However, at 11 (ish), I'd start looking into other explanations besides simply "My bright child is just so unmotivated and careless".

[Matryoshka]

That's about when I let it go.  Somehow, between then and now (9th) it's actually improved a lot.  But this may be due to the time spent in school (most of 6th, half of 8th and half of 9th) where she was finally forced to hand-write things for extended periods of time.  I think much of my dd's problem was that she learned to type really young and never developed strong muscles in her writing hand, as she'd avoid writing in favor of typing whenever possible.

 

Dh's handwriting is still a complete mess, and he's 56...

[73349]

I went to PS and still had crummy handwriting in 5th grade. Remedial work (drudgery!) didn't help. It got much better as I got older, though, and is now pretty good.

 

My advice is if she's otherwise a visual person, to give her lovely sparkly pens and a calligraphy book and/or other art materials, and ask her to do her very best for three minutes a day (preferably with a sand timer), even if that is only one sentence.

 

If you'd say she's not a visual person, try something relational instead, such as a back-and-forth notebook in which you write little notes to each other.

[MerryAtHope]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "let it go." 

 

If you mean, stop using handwriting curriculum--my oldest did a curriculum through 6th grade. My youngest did one through 5th (and she had the worse handwriting), but then asked specifically to work on it in junior high (I think 8th grade, but it might have been 7th). 

 

If you mean stop addressing the issue of illegible writing, never. I make my kids re-do it every time that I can't read it. Like your dd, sometimes my dd wasn't sure what she wrote either. But whether it was math or a test or history notes--if I can't tell what it says (or if I even question and think I can guess what it says--sorry, not guessing), they had to re-do it. That helped a lot over time but didn't take care of every incidence. 

 

My oldest also had vision processing issues, and that's something worth looking into: www.covd.org.

 

I would also look into dysgraphia, for two reasons--one, there are some things you can do to help, and two, without a formal diagnosis, she will have plenty of handwriting to do in college (lots of note-taking which directly impacts studying for tests, in-class work, essay tests--almost every class my son took last semester had essay tests, and so on). It's not something you can get around by saying "just teach her to type." That will alleviate some of the stress and burden, and may help with things like papers, but it's not a 100% fix. 

 

All that to say, she may not need a handwriting program any more, but legibility is something to continue to work on. I know it's no fun! Hang in there!

[Mommy22alyns]

When I was a child, my teachers would likely have asserted that I had no developmental delays, and that my messy, often illegible handwriting was due to my being lazy and careless and also left-handed. If they were feeling generous then, like you, they would have attributed anything I failed to "put effort into" as being something I "saw no point in". Heck, I would have attributed my bad handwriting to the fact that penmanship was totally useless (and also because I was left-handed, always an easy out).

 

My teachers would have been absolutely, 100% wrong. I was wrong. I used that excuse, and I told it to myself, but it wasn't the truth.

 

I'm not suggesting, of course, that your daughter is autistic, as I am. That's probably ridiculous. However, it seems to me that an 11 year old ought to be able to produce handwriting that is at least legible, even if only to the writer, without too much effort or taking too much time on it.

 

My handwriting did eventually improve... after I gave up on writing and learned to type. Now it's as neat as anybody's, although it still looks fairly childish and I don't see that one getting better in this lifetime. Not sure what the connection is between learning to type and my handwriting improving, but it's real.

 

If you're really certain that her poor handwriting is due to lack of motivation, you might try a combination of outright bribery (a set dollar amount for every page of neat copywork or penmanship practice) and the stick (making her rewrite anything that's totally illegible, increasing your standards as her handwriting improves). However, at 11 (ish), I'd start looking into other explanations besides simply "My bright child is just so unmotivated and careless".

 

What, then, would you suggest?

[Tanaqui]

Identifying what the problem is and then going with a method of remediation (or possibly accommodation) that generally helps people with that problem. Somebody upthread suggested it might be dysgraphia, looking into that may be a good place to start. In my case, I had general fine motor difficulties that I'm sure you would have seen (but then, you may not have - my parents' official answer to everything was "she's left-handed". Which was true as far as it goes, but not quite as universally applicable as they made it out to be), but I also had super poor instruction (because left-handed!) which really exacerbated the situation. I really don't know how many possible causes there are for poor handwriting, and I don't know that they all have the same best treatment.

 

Again, I'm assuming that she can't produce legible handwriting in a reasonable time frame. If you have evidence that she can, then maybe you're right and it really is just lack of motivation.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

 

My oldest is 16 now.

 

 

In fifth grade his handwriting was horrible. No one could read it. He had various issues that made it difficult.

 

We took a break from it.

 

Now he has a handwriting book in a style he chose, and he is taking time to learn to write legibly. It's still not pretty, but it's functional.

 

It helped to step away until he was ready. There was still necessary writing along the way in occasion but most work was done via typing.

 

 

He chose Getty-Dubay italic writing.

[Slache]

I wish someone had pushed me to write better. I have no advice but it has hindered me in my adult life. I find that writing in all caps is beneficial, but I've gotten negative comments about that.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:   I know how frustrating this can be.  Honestly, I agree with others, get an evaluation, probably through an Occupational Therapist.  If she has dysgraphia, as others have suggested, there are frequently things that can be done to help but also there are accommodations that can be acquired for things like testing and college classes.  This levels the playing field and prevents a bright child from being held back simply because of their handwriting.

 

FWIW, many members of my family are dysgraphic (including my husband and my son).  There are varying degrees of dysgraphia and various specific reasons for dysgraphia.  Having an expert assess your child gives you answers that may put you both on a better path.

 

I will mention, also, that my nephew has atrocious handwriting.  Really, really, really bad.  He is profoundly dysgraphic.  This is not something he can help.  He was treated horribly in elementary school because he was accused of a bad attitude with his poor handwriting.  Middle School wasn't much better.  He was finally diagnosed and was allowed to type or have a scribe in High School.  Typing/scribing saved him.  Not all dysgraphics can type, but thankfully he could.  He is now a Junior in college with a 4.0.  Thankfully, wiser minds prevailed in High School and a very gifted young man was not tossed by the wayside for poor handwriting.  

 

It can't hurt to get an assessment.  It is private, you don't have to share anything with anyone else unless you choose to and there may be very specific reasons why your student is struggling to write legibly, and ways to address them.  Why not find out?

[Desert Strawberry]

Sagg does have some learning problems, very much like his dad. He was around that age-11, I think-when I discovered that his writing looks exactly like his dad's and doesn't seem likely to improve with MORE instruction. 

 

It's not pretty, but it is reasonably functional. D gets by ok. He works in an office, does fairly creative work ( he's a safety guy. He does a lot of technical writing), and he's successful in his career. If he's doing all right, I imagine Sagg will too. 

At this point, he is improving his typing. Both because it's a necessary skill, and because using a word processing program will offer him guidance with his spelling, and eliminate some of the frustration of trying to write legibly on paper.

 

His writing is mostly legible. His spelling needs some work. We are addressing that. 

I agree with others that it's unlikely that she is willfully writing poorly. If she could, she would. I don;t think extra hard about keeping my handwriting neat, and neither do my other kids. Their writing is just the way it is. Aries used the same instruction, same books, same methods, same practice and his writing is lovely. He sure as heck isn't putting a ton of effort into it, kwim?

[HeWillSoar]

Have you tried teaching her cursive?  When my son came home from PS in 8th grade, I started teaching him cursive.  His writing has always been messy, and I really think he is dygraphic athough it was never diagnosed.   His cursive is very nice now although he prefers to write in print.  I just have him write some things in cursive so that way he will be able to if he wants to some day.  You just have to remember that it takes a lot of effort for them to write neatly and that can then take away from the rest of the work. 

[Mommy22alyns]

I've been teaching her cursive since 3rd grade - I waited until then because her print wasn't very neat.  Cursive is almost as bad.

 

Okay, about dysgraphia - can you start at a ped's office?  Money is an issue.

What about drawing?  She can actually draw pretty well.

[katilac]

If it's truly illegible with decent effort, I'd probably try to figure out why. Dysgraphia? Weak hand muscles? Other? 

 

Knowing the reason might help me focus on the best strategies for improvement. If I couldn't narrow down a reason, I still wouldn't give up completely, because a few minutes of copywork a day never killed anybody. Truly bad handwriting can make a bad impression on teachers and employers (whether that's fair or not, it's true). 

 

When she has to make corrections, are they neater? 

 

I thought that one of my dds had terrible handwriting in 5th grade. Not always illegible, but certainly messy and hard to read in spite of daily copywork. Then she went to summer camp, and at the end they had some of their writing on display for parents' day. I walked past the display three times in search of dd's work, because her easily recognizable red hot mess of a handwriting was nowhere to be found. 

 

Finally, I realized that one of the lovely, legible pages was actually hers. 

 

Sometimes, they are just lazy and careless, lol. 

 

My rule is that I refuse to spend longer decoding their work than they do writing it in the first place. 

[Faithr]

As a parent of children with bad handwriting and one that was formally diagnosed with dysgraphia I think you should keep teaching.  You might have to go back and remediate, again and again.  My kids practice all through high school.  It just takes that long. I want my kids to be fully literate and that means being able to handwrite as well.  My older kids have been in situations where they had to hand write neatly for their jobs. My oldest dd is a school teacher; she has too write legibly for the kids.  My son works at a marina where he has to fill out forms and write notes to other workers and they actually complained that his handwriting was illegible and he came home and started practicing writing!  So it is a life skill.  She's only 11.  Don't give up on her yet!

[jenslp]

I went through this with my son. Handwriting is so important to me but we tried for three years after we started homeschooling in sixth grade and no matter what we tried it never improved. I have given up and instead have focused on typing skills. I decided I just had to let the handwriting thing go. I think he was in public school where they didn't care about his handwriting for too many years.

[OneStepAtATime]

I've been teaching her cursive since 3rd grade - I waited until then because her print wasn't very neat.  Cursive is almost as bad.

 

Okay, about dysgraphia - can you start at a ped's office?  Money is an issue.

What about drawing?  She can actually draw pretty well.

Drawing and writing are related but not the same.  DD can draw/paint/sketch quite well.  We have her sketches and paintings all over the house. But her handwriting takes tremendous effort to be neat and it took quite a while for her to learn to form her letters correctly.  Unlike DS, though, she can actually write very neatly and fit her letters into small spaces.  It just takes a whole lot of effort and she has to write really slowly.  Not a very efficient form of communication for her so she also types.

 

You could ask your ped if they can assess but if they have no background/training it may not help at all.  Still, they might be able to.  Can't hurt to ask, and you might get lucky (our ped knew nothing but some are great for this sort of thing).  You could see what the cost of just a basic eval through an Occupational Therapist would cost, too.  Can't hurt to ask around.  I would call more than one.  Prices can vary.

[Reefgazer]

DD is a southpaw (I've rarely seen lefties with decent handwriting), public school didn't teach her cursive, and I dropped the ball on teaching it to her when she was younger, so her handwriting was pretty bad for a while.  When she came to homeschool, I taught her cursive, but it was not, and never will be, beautiful.  I am going for "able to read cursive" and "legible", and we've gotten there.  She did the typical workbooks, and I told her she could quit her handwriting lessons when her handwriting was acceptable to me (reasonably neat and legible).  In addition, every time her schoolwork was not sloppy and unreadable, she had to re-write it.  *That* cleaned up the handwriting real fast.  So assuming your DD *can* write and is just being sloppy, I'd send her the message that the schoolwork will need to be rewritten if you find it sloppy and not readable.  It was the fastest route to reasonably neat that I've hit upon yet.  Barring a developmental disability, I don't buy for one minute that some people "can't write".

Edited January 24, 2016 by reefgazer

[SparklyUnicorn]

I feel your pain.  My older kid is 14 and his handwriting...ohhh.

 

I get on him only in that I remind him to do his best to make it legible.  I remind him that if a teacher cannot read it he may get stuff marked wrong that isn't wrong simply because the person could not read it.  He is taking an outside class now for the first time so it should be interesting how that pans out.  I'm somewhat worried about it, but I've tried everything and it seems as if the handwriting is as good as it is ever going to get.

 

BTW, I taught him cursive first.  So for years he only wrote in cursive.  I sat down years later and showed him how to print.  He worked on that a bit and it is far more legible than his cursive.  So he prints most of the time now.  So this whole thing about how cursive first (or in general) is better, etc. has not panned out for him. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

 In addition, every time her schoolwork was not sloppy and unreadable, she had to re-write it.  *That* cleaned up the handwriting real fast.  So assuming your DD *can* write and is just being sloppy, I'd send her the message that the schoolwork will need to be rewritten if you find it sloppy and not readable.  It was the fastest route to reasonably neat that I've hit upon yet.  Barring a developmental disability, I don't buy for one minute that some people "can't write".

 

My kid just refused to redo it.  He listens to me 99% of the time, but nope he just would not do it.  So what can I do about that?  KWIM?

 

I did not buy it either, but I just have too many family members who have this issue not to think there is something to it.  My husband is the same.  And he is a neat freak about most things.  Both he and our son can write neater, but only if they go painstakingly slow which in some situations is completely impractical or not possible.

[Reefgazer]

Generally speaking, privileges are gone unless the Work is done to my satisfaction. For DS, no video games = work getting done. But I do agree that some thighs are harder for one person than another.

 

 

My kid just refused to redo it. He listens to me 99% of the time, but nope he just would not do it. So what can I do about that? KWIM?

 

I did not buy it either, but I just have too many family members who have this issue not to think there is something to it. My husband is the same. And he is a neat freak about most things. Both he and our son can write neater, but only if they go painstakingly slow which in some situations is completely impractical or not possible.

Edited January 24, 2016 by reefgazer

[RootAnn]

I'd let her drop the handwriting program.

I'd let her type.

I'd also insist that I be able to read what she did write.

[lllll]

nm

Edited February 2, 2016 by - 8 95

[Lori D.]

Well, for one thing, I'd go ahead and have her learn to touch type now, as all papers in high school will be typed.

 

My guess is that her thoughts are far out-racing her ability to write them out, so it turns into an illegible scribble in an attempt to speed up the hand to the brain's pace, which is never going to happen. 

 

BUT... I would also encourage you to consider doing Callirobics (and then Callirobics Advanced) with her for a year (rather than a handwriting program), starting now. It is about 3 minutes a day of copying the pattern of repeating lines and loops used in handwriting that are shown as the exercise for the day -- and doing so neatly, gently, carefully while listening to music. This program really made a difference for DS#2 who struggled with handwriting, as well as with DS#1 who was just a sloppy don't-care writer -- helped my cursive, too! ;)

 

My take on it is that it helps the strengthen the fine motor skill muscles of the hand, and it also "imprints" the motions that are part of handwriting. And because it isn't actual letters and words, it is easier to get the student to slow down and do the work carefully -- the key is NOT speed (quantity), but QUALITY -- trying to make each repetition match the example, and all of your previous attempts, and also in making sure that the designs and loops touch the lines of the notebook paper, but don't fall short or go over. I also think it really helped that we ALL did it together as a 3-minute mental "re-set", to slow down and focus, but also to relax as the music went along with the motions of writing.

 

BEST of luck in figuring out what the underlying root cause is so that you can pinpoint the best "fix"! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Lori D.

[lmrich]

Can other people read her handwriting? Can she write neatly at all, even just for a sentence or two. I think I would build week to week. First a word, then two or three etc.. 

 

I work with middle school kids in a homeschool hybrid, and there are several kids who are hindered by poor handwriting. They cannot take notes in class or they cannot write an answer to an essay question, or they are embarrassed by their own handwriting. I can usually read sloppy handwriting, but there have been times I cannot read it at all. I always allow kids the option to type in class, but they have to have a laptop. 

 

Good luck.

[sewingmama]

I gave up when I realised that after 3 years of forced handwriting practice my DD's handwriting was still as crap as when we started. I figured it was because she was left handed and has disgraphia that that was the way it was going to be and I wasn't going to bother with it anymore.

 

3 months later after I gave up worrying or caring about it I was looking at her work and suddenly realised how lovely her handwriting had become. I mentioned her improvement to her and she shrugged and said " Yeah I just decided I didn't like messy writing anymore so now I try to write neat"

 

Little snot LOL... but it made me a firm believer it's no use forcing them...they will only improve when they want to or see the purpose in it themselves.

[Kuovonne]

My DD has / had bad handwriting.

Ironically, she is the only right-handed person in the family.

 

Things that did not help:

Teaching her cursive the first time.

Having her do lots of handwriting.

Insisting on decent handwriting across the board.

Pushing for good handwriting when she in in a bad mood.

Praising good handwriting (why???)

 

Things that did help:

Insisting that handwriting is at least legible for all subjects.

Asking for decent handwriting only for spelling lessons.

Having her type. (This mostly helped me because I didn't have to see so much bad handwriting.)

Having her fix handwriting in math if there is any question about what a digit is.

Being specific in what is wrong with with her handwriting (more later).

Asking for her to write the alphabet at the end of her daily spelling lesson if her handwriting wasn't up to snuff.

Having her practice specific letters if they gave her trouble on a spelling lesson.

 

Things that I noticed:

She was capable of decent handwriting.

She would have decent handwriting when it was important to her,

such as when writing a thank-you note to grandparents for a birthday gift.

She likes writing in marker, highlighter, gel pen, sharpie, etc.

She can't sharpen a traditional wood pencil.

She prefers a specific type of mechanical pencil.

She hates erasing.

 

 

Specific instructions for correcting handwriting:

I gave very specific instruction on what was wrong with her handwriting.

- consistant x height

- tall letters need to be tall, but not touch the top line

- letters need to sit on the baseline (not "jumpy" or "dippy")

- descenders need to descend the right amount, and curve the right way

- correct slant on letters

- correct white space between letters and words

 

The areas she needed most work on were consistant x height and letters sitting on the baseline.

I didn't ask for a consistant x height across the board, but just within a word.

 

I taught her lower case letters before uppercase letters, so I did not have

a problem with her mixing cases.

 

I also never used a handwriting program or worksheets with her.

I just taught her to form her letters as I do.

I wanted my kids to write their letters, not copy them.

Once she knew the shape and strokes to the letters, and

could write them quickly, I dropped formal handwriting instruction

and stuck with handwriting corrections during spelling.

 

Hope this helps.

[Janeway]

This is so funny. This post reminded me that we have not done it lately. He is 11 yrs old. I guess I know he knows how the letters are formed, so a curriculum was not helping. He just needed practice, which he gets in every day work.