Learning multiple musical instruments - what is the max for your child?

[mathnerd]

My 8 year old child is very musical. He has been learning piano from age 4 and the violin from age 7. His main instrument is the piano and he is at a level where he can play classical music by composers that he loves and enjoys learning those pieces and gets a monthly opportunity to perform in the music school in front of a small audience. He also enjoys learning violin and practices both instruments about 5-6 days a week though he spends a lot more time on the piano due to his violin level being a beginner level.

He has asked me to add in 2 more instruments - cello and trumpet and choir for 2016. I would love for him to be able to learn as many musical instruments as he likes, but, I told him that in order to do justice to practicing both his current instruments, his academics and his sports (he plays 2 sports as well), he needs to curtail the number of instruments to 2. I am wondering if parents who have very musical kids who want to learn many instruments allow them to learn all that they want or ask them to drop 1 of their current instruments to make room in their schedule. I am feeling really guilty for having refused to add on another instrument for 2016. Logistically, it is not a problem because he takes lessons in a music school where he can stay on over for another lesson in a new instrument after his current lesson (which is what he was suggesting). Parents of musical kids, please share your experiences.

[maize]

One of mine did three instruments for awhile; long term it may not be sustainable, but young as he is and with a real interest in music it might be worth letting him try the ones he wants to with the understanding that he will probably have to make a choice between instruments in the future. He may decide he likes cello better than violin, for example, but how will he know if he does not try the cello?

[IsabelC]

I'd be with you in thinking that four instruments plus choir are likely to be too much for a child to do justice to all at once. I'd be OK with that for a teenager who wants to specialize in music, because he could drop and cut back on other areas of learning in order to devote more time to practice, but at 8yo is likely to have a lots of non music subjects that can't be dropped or substantially reduced. With a couple of sports activities in the mix, I'm assuming he probably doesn't have loads of free time? 

Cello is different enough from violin that it might be safer to wait until he is more proficient with violin before trying it, because if his violin technique isn't deeply enough embedded into the muscle memory, he might end up going backwards due to switching between violin and cello.

 

Did you check whether he is big/developed enough for trumpet? I don't know much about it, but I have heard that apart from the breath control aspect, it is advisable not to start until the adult front teeth are in position. (Correct me if I'm wrong, trumpet experts!) If he's going to play in a school concert band, it's possible that the music will be very simple (school ensemble music is usually easy for kids who have already been doing music for a while), and wouldn't require a great deal of home practice. 

My Ms. 7 would like to do a few more instruments, but I said she should focus on piano and violin for now (and she also does music theory daily), and we'll consider adding things on when she's a bit older if she is still interested. She is a bit like your son sounds - enjoys learning music and could probably do well on any instrument - but two are enough for us.

Edited January 3, 2016 by IsabelC

[Grover]

DS (9) plays two plus choir.  He has asked to start another this year.  I have asked him to put one of the others on hold exam-wise and just play it for ensemble work while he brings the new instrument up to speed.  I think two that are "learning" and one or two others that are maintaining is ok for him for now. 

[bluemongoose]

I really play 3 instruments; Violin, Clarinet, Sax. Clarinet and Sax very well, Violin is more advanced intermediate. I have also done beginning level trumpet and flute. I love to play any instrument I can get my hands on. I did not take lessons on new instruments, I just tinkered with them.

 

What are his goals? If he wants to be a conductor of sorts some day, they have to pass a proficiency in all the instruments. 

 

I agree with PP that I would not allow cello until violin is above beginning level. It has a completely different hand position. I would tell him to delay that, but I would get him a trumpet to mess with. If you can find a cornet, I would get that over the trumpet because they are smaller and easier to hold for little guys.

Edited January 2, 2016 by bluemongoose

[Dmmetler]

One question I have is cost. I play a lot of instruments (pretty much if it's a Western instrument, I can probably play it), most at thr advanced beginner level with a few expert/professionally, but most of that is because I went to a high school (and college) that both had rooms full of instruments that could be checked out for students to learn a new instrument on. It's a valuable skill for teachers who are going to teach in school music programs, especially ones where kids don't necessarily have access to private instruction, to have. We also got a lot of teaching practice teaching each other.

 

But I can tell you that it was a strain for me to learn three-Saxophone, Clarinet, and Piano well, because learning them well necessitated high quality instruments and instruction, which adds up. Like a lot of music majors, my professional level instruments basically took the place of buying a car-not once, but twice.

[Arcadia]

The main concern is time management and enthusiasm. At 9 years old, I was in piano (private), horn(school brass band), choir(school), accordion (school angklung ensemble).

 

Because of the horn, I could easily play the cornet and trumpet for marching band if I wanted to. Cost is not a factor since all instruments were school provided and instruction was free. There is a time commitment though which is expected. My elementary school band room was sound proof and air-conditioned. I could stay there every day after school if I wanted to and try every instrument.

 

Harmonica and recorder was taught during school music lessons from 1st grade.

 

What I find is that choir and trumpet is hard during hay fever season when I had to be on allergy medication. Throat was dry regardless how much honey I gulp down. Still the comaraderie among band and choir members were great as we gave each other emotional support through onset of puberty.

[Ethel Mertz]

DS 13 is proficient at jazz drumming and takes lessons. He takes voice lessons as well, sings in an adult church choir, a Royal School of Church Music chorister (kids) group, and has just been invited to sing with the local (adult) chorale. He will probably need to drop his chorister group in order to sing with the Chorale; he's outgrown the chorister group anyway. He is also in an occasional (adult) evensong group. Even with dropping the chorister group, he has 4 to 5 lessons/rehearsals each week, plus an ongoing archery group. It is a lot. 

 

At your son's age, like others have said, I would hold off on the cello until he is a bit more solid with the violin. I view adding musical instruments like adding languages: DS must have two years of a language before he can add an additional one. Thankfully, he's revised his earlier goal of learning every language in the world.

[kiwik]

For me it would be purely a financial decision. I am holding off for affordable lessons at middle school.

[Junie]

My dd11 is getting to add her second instrument this semester.

 

She currently plays flute and has played for about 3 years.  She has moved up to level 2 (out of 4) at her music program -- I guess you could call it advanced beginner or intermediate.  She is now adding piccolo which is similar in many ways.

 

I do not know that she would be ready to learn an entirely different set of fingerings or notations.

 

For your son, I think that I would want to see more proficiency in violin before he moves to something else, unless he has decided that violin is not for him and he wants to drop it.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Junie

[Tsuga]

If I had the money to provide a flexible academic schedule and the instrument access, I would not limit it. Why? In our home it is the other interests like sport and science and language (my choice) that interfere but they do have access to a guitar, piano, violin, recorder, learning drums (Adam Lambert electronic set just to pick up some basics). Lessons in recorder to read music and now lessons in a second instrument each. At ten they will get a third instrument. Why not? Your son sounds exceptionally talented and dedicated. If he's at grade level in the basic academics I'd let him go for it and scour craigslist for access to instruments.

[Tsuga]

Edit: I would only pay for lessons in one instrument until they were moderately proficient, but why not let him play at round with others?

[musicianmom]

I would let him add whatever he wants as long as he maintains the appropriate amount of practice on his primary instrument.

[JanetC]

DS (9) plays two plus choir.  He has asked to start another this year.  I have asked him to put one of the others on hold exam-wise and just play it for ensemble work while he brings the new instrument up to speed.  I think two that are "learning" and one or two others that are maintaining is ok for him for now. 

 

I think this is the best way to do multiple instruments: agree that some are "learning" and some are "maintaining," rather than trying to do the same level of commitment to all.

[Rush]

DS 7 plays piano, takes vocal lessons and choir + multiple sports and art performance classes like ballet and musical theater.

He wanted to take sax as well, but i think he will be overwhelmed. Anyway he has decided that from next year he'll drop the choir and take another extra lesson of guitar. That's the maximum for mine. Youngest wants to repeat everything after his brother.

[Piper]

When I was a kid, I wanted to play everything, too. :) Piano was my first instrument, violin my second, and when I brought home a flute, my piano teacher had a bit of a fit and told me (and Mum) that I wouldn't be able to do justice to my first two instruments if I took up a third. She was right. I did really well with both piano and violin throughout my schooling, and I'm glad I didn't have formal instruction in flute as well - it would have been just too much practice time. (Though I'd still love to learn to play flute properly...)  Later on, after I'd finished my undergrad degree, I took up the bagpipes, but by that time my formal instruction in both piano and violin was well over.

 

I guess that's just to say - I think 2 instruments is plenty for a kid, especially if they have other extra-curricular commitments. If your child is really musical, that is something that will last them all their life, and they may take up other instruments later on in life and still get a lot of out of it.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Piper

[MrsWeasley]

I have an eight year old who plays piano and is in a choir. She has a list of instruments she would like to play, but I've told her that I'm not paying for additional music lessons until middle school (as the local school district gives very, very cheap music lessons for band/orchestra open to homeschoolers). This is purely a financial decision.

[Peaceful Isle]

I can only afford to pay for two instruments per girl, and they barely have enough time in the day to practice both of those along with other things they do. My oldest is part of a choir as well.

[zaichiki]

How would your ds feel about playing around with the instruments on his own without taking formal lessons and learning proper technique?  (Or perhaps a few introductory lessons on each instrument just to get it off the ground and then let it be a flexible, "when I have time and interest" sort of thing?)

 

I agree with the PP who said that if he doesn't try it, how does he know which is really going to be "his" instrument (in addition to piano, of course).

 

My dd can figure out how to get music out of many instruments "by ear." (This doesn't mean she can play it like a serious student of the instrument or with the proper technique.)  There are so many instruments she'd like to try, but we cannot afford good examples of these or lessons in them, so she just plays around on them when she gets a chance.  She plays viola and violin "for real."  She can generalize her skills on these instruments to her brother's cello, slowly and with poor intonation (ha!) and play pretty much whatever.  Dd took piano lessons for two months about five years ago and since then has played around on our piano (inspired, I'm sure, by friends who play the piano for real). She can play both hands parts of small snippets of simple, classical pieces (like Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 12 in A), various Christmas carols, church music she's heard, etc. She also improvises on the piano a lot. I think this started in earnest when she began taking music theory and ear training at her music school (they use the piano in every class). Additionally, so far, dd has been able to play melodies she knows on guitar, tin whistle, ukelele, and flute. 

 

I have noticed that people who learn to play one instrument at a very high level can generalize their skills by ear to many others.

 

True story:

I have a friend who was a professional violinist in two countries, playing in a very famous orchestra and also as a concertmaster. She owns/runs/teaches in a music school now. Her son began to study Suzuki piano at 3.  He and his homeschooling cohorts played a Christmas concert at a local nursing home every year. She graciously offered to accompany all the non-piano music students (mostly violinists) every year on the piano. She accompanied many, many kids at various levels of beginner - intermediate. One year someone asked her how long she had played piano. All of us moms were quite surprised when she answered, "Oh, I don't play the piano." (She was serious. She never took lessons and doesn't play according to her definition of a pianist.) Coulda fooled US!  LOL

Edited January 4, 2016 by zaichiki

[Pen]

Mine has 3 or so, none at an extremely high level. One at a point to be able to be in a group performance with it. For him, music is a fun thing, maybe lifetime hobby, not a likely vocation.

 

In the situation as you described it, I'd let your ds try all he wants for this next term, if you can afford it financially via the music school you describe. It is a great time to be able to try out different things. I would let him figure out how much he can do on practice of the new add ons. And I'd make clear that he might need to cut back in the future if other things that need to be done can't be due to all the music.  But it may be that your son has found his passion and life work early, and that letting music be first would make sense for him. Or it may not be a lifelong thing, but something that he can explore at this time. I think at age 8 you could let a few other subjects go (IMO history, art, penmanship-- but not math which tends to get easily behind) for a season while he pursued music intensively.  Maybe let one of the sports go for a season.  It is a good time to be learning that there is only so much time in the day, but I'd let him have a say in deciding on things like another instrument or one of the sports if he cannot do it all.

[Arcadia]

I think this started in earnest when she began taking music theory and ear training at her music school (they use the piano in every class). Additionally, so far, dd has been able to play melodies she knows on guitar, tin whistle, ukelele, and flute.

 

I have noticed that people who learn to play one instrument at a very high level can generalize their skills by ear to many others.

The aural training for the primary instrument can usually be used on any other instruments.

 

My hubby who had never learned strings took our boys cello and played all of suzuki book 1 by ear. Technique might not be perfect but tone was.

 

One of my nephew plays piano, saxophone and electric guitar for varsity band while being an engineering undergrad :) Piano was his first but he did not want that as his primary.

[wintermom]

I'm an instrument "junkie," dh loves guitar, and my dc are adding to our family collection. We've got a piano, guitars of every size and type, violins of every size, recorders, trumpet, trombone, clarinet, accordion, and a variety of different drums - plus we all sing. We keep adding to the collection as the dc get older. Sadly, the money for quality instruments, private instrument lessons, ensembles, choirs and music theory lessons only goes so far, and the time and energy to practice beyond the initial thrill of a new "toy" is also limited.

 

At the moment, the dc are limited to private lessons in one main instrument, ensemble in the main instrument, theory and choir. At age 10 the dc join a homeschool band and learn a new instrument (brass/woodwind/percussion) without private lessons. I've found for myself and my dc that having a scheduled time and place to play one's instrument with others  (or in a lesson) is vital in keeping the motivation going to continue practicing and improving.

 

It's really fun to have access to more instruments, and try playing them. There are lots of places to rent instruments, take a series of lessons, and see what happens. You don't have to continue with lessons in 3 instrument for years, but it certainly plants the seed that learning any instrument is a possibility over one's lifetime.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by wintermom

[Donna]

Price of instruments is the limiting factor here.

 

Dd's primary instrument is violin but she can pick out simple tunes by ear on tin whistle, harp, concertina, mandolin, banjo, uilleann pipes, and accordion (other peoples' except tin whistle, banjo, and mandolin…we have cheap ones of those or were given them by others). Some instruments are easier for her than others. Our mandolin and banjo are strung the same as her fiddle so the thing slowing her down is lack of practice with a pick.  She plays accompaniment for pop songs on piano by ear (while she sings along). She recently bought herself an inexpensive carbon fiber (unkeyed) flute and began teaching herself because she loves the flute instructor at the music camp we attend every summer and wants to take his class (crazy what motivates one to learn something)…she says his expensive flute is much easier to play than her own inexpensive one and by the sound of her playing both, she's probably right. Flute is the only other instrument she practices nearly every day. At different times, she has wanted to learn harp, accordion, and concertina but we just could not afford quality instruments so now she "borrows" other people's when we visit. 

 

My ds plays any instrument with strings and a pick….guitar, banjo, bouzouki, and mandolin. He had guitar lessons but is self taught on the other instruments. With poor intonation, he picks out tunes on dd's fiddle or messes with her flute.

 

It seems kids with a good ear can figure out the sound structure (not sure if that's the right way to explain it) of pretty much any instrument in a short time then pick out known tunes. Most of dd's friends enjoy exchanging instruments and messing around though dd's fiddle frustrates her friend who plays uilleann pipes, tin whistles in multiple keys, and flute…that darn bow and the lack of frets. LOL.

[G5052]

No limit other than time and finances. I took violin and piano, and then played in an orchestra and a recorder choir through middle school and high school. In college I played in an orchestra, and in graduate school I took voice lessons.

 

Frankly it's something that I miss and hope to pick up somehow after my youngest graduates in May of 2017. Not sure what I'll choose!

 

 

[wintermom]

 

It seems kids with a good ear can figure out the sound structure (not sure if that's the right way to explain it) of pretty much any instrument in a short time then pick out known tunes. Most of dd's friends enjoy exchanging instruments and messing around though dd's fiddle frustrates her friend who plays uilleann pipes, tin whistles in multiple keys, and flute…that darn bow and the lack of frets. LOL.

 

:iagree:   The bowing technique and lack of frets is really challenging! It's really, really hard to sound good on the violin right away, whereas piano and guitar are a breeze for those with an ear. They get much, much more complex, of course. 

[IsabelC]

I am all for letting kids noodle around with whatever instruments they can get their hands on. It's fun and they can learn a lot. However, 95% kids will end up with flaws in their technique if they keep learning without instruction, so it is worth considering what the child's intentions are. If they only ever want to play in fun / informal situations, it's not a big issue. (E.g. most pop songs are easy and can be played just fine with suboptimal technique. And I have seen a violinist who plays really nicely except that he is bowing with his left hand and fingering with his right! Totally not a problem unless he ever wants to get into any orchestra.) But if the kid wants to take their learning to the next level and do it more 'seriously', the teacher can end up with a lot of problems to fix. (That's why I started teaching Ms. 7 piano; I kept finding her playing music she'd heard by ear. Let her listen to something once or twice and she can reproduce it in any key, but until I started helping her she had terrible fingering.)

[Arcadia]

:iagree: The bowing technique and lack of frets is really challenging! It's really, really hard to sound good on the violin right away, whereas piano and guitar are a breeze for those with an ear. They get much, much more complex, of course.

The lack of frets doesn't bother hubby. He treats all strings as physics (sound waves) questions. Bowing correctly was harder :)

[Janeway]

He sounds like a joiner, so I would not go with it. Plus, I think the violin and cello conflict with each other. You will want to run that by both teachers. It has something to do with how something is played opposite on the two instruments.

 

I have a child who is a joiner. It is great, seemingly. He is always eager to get out and do everything. Wonderful. But, not at all practical. And if your child does all these instruments, in addition to you going broke, he will simply be ok at several things but not really good at anything. It is much easier to take a sampling of things but never invest in mastering anything. It takes a lot more commitment and work to stick it out in one thing, or two, and master them.  He is doing piano and violin. I would let him drop violin for cello, or let him add in either the wind instrument or choir. But that would be it. One "instrument" per type. But honestly, I would really say just piano and one other. He sounds excited and quite gifted, but it won't help him to jump around a lot and spread himself thin.

[Donna]

 

But, not at all practical. And if your child does all these instruments, in addition to you going broke, he will simply be ok at several things but not really good at anything. It is much easier to take a sampling of things but never invest in mastering anything. It takes a lot more commitment and work to stick it out in one thing, or two, and master them.  

 

I don't think this is true in every situation.

 

I know a number of people who play multiple, non-related instruments extremely well…professionally. 

 

For example, one guy I knows plays fiddle (and classical violin), uilleann pipes, tin whistle, guitar, and concertina. Another guy plays tin whistle, flute, and uilleann pipes (all those are related…similar fingerings), but also bouzouki, guitar, and recently learned accordion in a few weeks because he had an injury that caused pain with his other instruments. Another guy plays harp, bouzouki, tin whistle, and concertina. I know a woman who plays classical cello (has her doctorate in that) and violin, and plays/teaches Irish fiddle, harp, and concertina. The young guy in my son's new trio plays flute, accordion, and bouzouki…plus has a great voice. 

[wintermom]

The lack of frets doesn't bother hubby. He treats all strings as physics (sound waves) questions. Bowing correctly was harder :)

 

If he's got a really good ear, it sure helps. As an onlooker to my dd and ds on violin, when you shift up into the 5th position and higher, the slightest difference in finger placement makes a huge difference in intonation. This is where the violin becomes extremely difficult and the guitar much easier. My 2 boys who play classical guitar only have to make sure they shift up to the correct fret and all is good.

Edited January 7, 2016 by wintermom

[Runningmom80]

We've settled on lessons in one instrument, and we'll buy him what we can as far as the 20 others he's requested. :laugh:   He plays the double bass "officially," and at one point also took drum lessons, but there were lots of fights about all the practicing so we told him he had to drop lessons on one. He was only 5 at the time so I'm sure maturity was the biggest issue.  He taught himself piano and is now asking for a guitar.  He's an autodidact, and prefers to teach himself, so we are good with one instrument as far as lessons go.  (It's also a Suzuki program that has a group class component, so it's a big time commitment. I'd actually rather him do traditional lessons at this point, but that's a topic for another day.)

[mathnerd]

Thank you very much for all the responses. I went through them with both my DS and DH. We decided that we will not pursue cello for now as he agrees that it might get confusing to switch between violin and cello. DS has agreed to wait until he is 10 to start trumpet. So, we have finally decided to enroll him for choir in addition to his piano and violin lessons. Choir does not have much practice requirements at this level and the class timings work well.

 

It was good to hear from so many people with so much background in music and I am glad that I could get the help I needed to make this decision.

[Janeway]

I don't think this is true in every situation.

 

I know a number of people who play multiple, non-related instruments extremely well…professionally. 

 

For example, one guy I knows plays fiddle (and classical violin), uilleann pipes, tin whistle, guitar, and concertina. Another guy plays tin whistle, flute, and uilleann pipes (all those are related…similar fingerings), but also bouzouki, guitar, and recently learned accordion in a few weeks because he had an injury that caused pain with his other instruments. Another guy plays harp, bouzouki, tin whistle, and concertina. I know a woman who plays classical cello (has her doctorate in that) and violin, and plays/teaches Irish fiddle, harp, and concertina. The young guy in my son's new trio plays flute, accordion, and bouzouki…plus has a great voice. 

But this is over a course of probably decades, as it sounds like they are adults. And in some cases, the instruments are extremely similar. The OP is talking about a 7 yr old. It is not good to simply try to do it all at once, and now. And, specifically, violin and cello cannot be learned together for the most part. Teachers who are adults and know a variety of instruments generally have a basic knowledge and ability, but not an in-depth mastered ability with each.

[Donna]

But this is over a course of probably decades, as it sounds like they are adults. And in some cases, the instruments are extremely similar. The OP is talking about a 7 yr old. It is not good to simply try to do it all at once, and now. And, specifically, violin and cello cannot be learned together for the most part. Teachers who are adults and know a variety of instruments generally have a basic knowledge and ability, but not an in-depth mastered ability with each.

True, the people I mentioned are adults but I also know young people who play multiple musical instruments as well. All the adults I mentioned have in-depth mastered ability on the majority of their musical instruments…many are All Ireland (World Champions) on multiple instruments and also play professional folk and classical music. 

 

Among the young people I know are a 15 year old who when he was twelve won the All Ireland title (under 12 world championship) in piano, fiddle, and harp. His biggest love is classical music and he plays all three instruments classically at a very high standard.

 

A 12 year old we know last year won the under 12 All Ireland title in fiddle, button accordion, melodeon, banjo, mandolin, and piano. He is absolutely amazing on every instrument he plays and I have no idea how he has time to practice all those instruments. He plays classical violin and piano as well…I do not know what level because I have never heard him play those or spoken to him or his mother about them.

 

Editing to add:

How many people who begin a musical instrument truly develop "indepth mastered ability," really? So many people begin an instrument in their childhood only to drop it for another or a sport or lack of interest. What if the instrument your child might really become passionate about is the one you never let him try to play? I think there are limits on instrument number based on any number of family reasons but the inability to develop in-depth mastered ability on every instrument would not be a reason for me. My dd has dabbled in a number of instruments and in the ones we own, her interest level (or limits on time based on more interest in other things) has been the limiting factor. For the ones we don't own, cost is the limiting factor and someday she might decide to purchase her own. There is no harm in dabbling and trying things out.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Donna

[IsabelC]

But this is over a course of probably decades, as it sounds like they are adults. And in some cases, the instruments are extremely similar. The OP is talking about a 7 yr old. It is not good to simply try to do it all at once, and now. And, specifically, violin and cello cannot be learned together for the most part. Teachers who are adults and know a variety of instruments generally have a basic knowledge and ability, but not an in-depth mastered ability with each.

 

True, and not only that, but adults aren't trying to do this at the same time as learning their reading, writing, 'rithmatic and so on.

[FO4UR]

My opinion fwiw:  Limit him to Piano, Violin and Choir for this school year.  Re-evaluate in the summer.

 

 

Get off the ground with violin before adding another string instrument. 

 

Choir takes precedent over trumpet, from the standpoint that we are picking which to begin first...and trumpet is an option for future years. Partly b/c singing is a vital skill and partly b/c children's choirs are usually a load of FUN and less intensive than private instrument lessons. That means he has more energy to focus on piano & violin.

 

 

If he's that talented, he may wish to pursue music as a career.  He needs piano (and theory), ear training (violin rocks for ear training!), and singing skills to get through a music degree.  All 3 of those are best done starting as young as possible.  He's in great shape!  Keep it going!

 

 

Meet with the violin teacher (without ds present) and decide on a goal.  When he can play this piece, he can begin a new instrument.  I'd personally set a goal for each instrument he starts.  I'd hate to put a time limit or cap it at a # of instruments, but definitely don't let him start and stop and start and stop.  If he's destined to be a musician, learning several instruments, in all instrument families, will benefit him greatly.