"Rehoming" Adopted Children

[Aelwydd]

I apologize if this has already been discussed.  I just came across this Washington Post article regarding an Arkansas state rep who, along with his wife, "rehomed" their difficult adopted daughter.  The girl ended up being raped by her new "father."

 

Ok, I have heard of a lot of things, and I know family situations can get very weird very fast.  I'm not confusing this with some kids who run away, or end up choosing to live in another home because of difficult circumstances or dynamics.

 

But rehoming kids??  That is a word I usually associate with finding animals new homes, not kids. And these kids were really young, too.

 

Parents can legally just send their kid away to live with another family?  I thought adopted children had at least some oversight! 

 

 

 

 

[SKL]

It depends on state law I think.  I'm not a fan of the name, but there are times a child needs a fresh start.  I have heard of "second chance adoptions."  Some of them are very successful.  Unfortunately some of them are not.  Generally these kids have so much baggage that it may be actually impossible for some of them to have a successful family placement.

 

Kids who have been moved from home to home do seem to have a higher likelihood of being abused.  It's so sad.  But I would not blame it on the practice of giving adopted kids another chance in a different home.  It is a pretty rare practice, but it does seem to be the right answer for some kids.  I have no idea of any statistics though.

[SKL]

I do think "Rehoming" has been discussed on this board, maybe a couple years ago.

[SKL]

As far as oversight, I think there probably should be more oversight of a second placement, just because these families are more likely to need support / services.  I would be in favor of oversight of all adoptions (with home visits) for at least a couple of years.

[Aelwydd]

As far as oversight, I think there probably should be more oversight of a second placement, just because these families are more likely to need support / services.  I would be in favor of oversight of all adoptions (with home visits) for at least a couple of years.

 

That's what I think, too.  Like I said, I understand that situations can get strained or weird, and sometimes a different home is best.  But, I think there should at least be some sort of formal oversight and official transfer of custody.  Kids are not puppies in a box, after all.  If someone has legally adopted a child, and thinks that child needs to live with a different family, that should be reported or registered somewhere.  Otherwise, the initial family is going to be the one receiving all the special services or funding (isn't that fraud?) and if there are issues in the second home, how would anyone (besides the immediate parties) know about it? 

[SKL]

That's what I think, too.  Like I said, I understand that situations can get strained or weird, and sometimes a different home is best.  But, I think there should at least be some sort of formal oversight and official transfer of custody.  Kids are not puppies in a box, after all.  If someone has legally adopted a child, and thinks that child needs to live with a different family, that should be reported or registered somewhere.  Otherwise, the initial family is going to be the one receiving all the special services or funding (isn't that fraud?) and if there are issues in the second home, how would anyone (besides the immediate parties) know about it? 

 

I don't see how it's an adoption if there isn't a legal transfer with a new birth certificate etc.

 

[Aelwydd]

I don't see how it's an adoption if there isn't a legal transfer with a new birth certificate etc.

 

 

I don't know, because I'm not that informed about adoption laws and proceedings.  In the case of the news article I linked, the parents who "rehomed" the daughter had legally adopted her.  Then, they gave her to another family, but that family did not adopt her.  So, legally, she was still the daughter of the first family. 

 

I didn't see anywhere where it stated if they even named the second family as legal guardians.  This whole process seems very blurry to me.

 

[Mergath]

I think if a person adopts a child and realizes they can't care for him or her, the second adoption should have exactly the same requirements and oversight as the first. I don't see how giving a child to another family without any transfer of guardianship or records or anything is any different from child trafficking. 

[LucyStoner]

There was a huge multi-part story a year or two back on this practice of "rehoming" difficult adopted kids informally, with the concerns being, of course, who needs to go through sketchy channels to adopt and is willing to take very difficult to handle children?  People with a pathological need to collect children, people who want to collect payments for the children or people who want children to abuse in some way.  It was a pretty great piece of long form investigative journalism but I can't seem to find it on google just now.  

 

There's also some legislative efforts to curb this:

 

https://chronicleofsocialchange.org/featured/federal-protecting-adopted-children-act-to-curb-re-homing/10840

[poppy]

I do not understand this. 

How can a parent not be responsible for their child's well being?

How are children who have a documented history of being sexually abused be transferred to new guardians without any oversight?

 

I can't imagine adopting a child and then regretting that at age 6 and giving up on her. But have never been there-- never had to deal with anything that devastating regarding my children  --- I do not feel qualified to judge.   I won't comment, it's so far outside of my life of experiences.  If that was the story, I'd just say it's sad. That's not the story. This story is so much worse. What  a terrible shame.

[TammyS]

There are so many failures in the system, official and unofficial. 

 

I personally know a family that adopted a sibling group.  The two youngest were molested and began hurting one of their biological children.  The family then put measures into place to protect the biological children from the adopted children (separating bedrooms, children never left alone, cameras in the house) while simultaneously reaching out to the foster system for help for the adopted children.  There was no help available.  It became a living nightmare.  One of the children concerned them so much that the parents took turns sleeping, so someone could always be awake.  Eventually, the oldest of the "problem" children (two children were causing problems, the rest of the sibling group did not) ended up being sent back to foster care - because there was no help available for that child and no way, long term, for the family to keep the other children safe.  That child was later adopted again, and abused in the new adoptive home, and is back in foster care again (this is known because the family keeps in contact with the caseworker and still wants the child to have therapy and then be able to return).

 

My point is that if we want families to be willing to adopt non-infant babies, there needs to be help for them when it turns out the children have problems, even after the adoption is finalized.  And having everything done through an adoption agency is no guarantee that there won't be abuse. 

 

I don't know much about the case referenced in the article, other than what is in the article.  Obviously, "re-homing" a child through the internet is appalling.  But that isn't what this family did.  The article said these people knew each other.  Clearly, it turned out to be a wrong decision.  But I'm not sure that sending a child to live with people you know, because the child has issues and you feel that the child might be better off (or to keep other children in the home safe) is necessarily a bad thing and something we should be outlawing.  The article says that some states have passed laws against "re-homing" but it doesn't mention the scope of such laws.  Would it be illegal to send the child to live with people you know in a safer neighborhood (supposing your area was gangland or something)?  Would it include grandparents or extended family?  Would it include someone not related, but that you know very well could be in a situation to help the child (or at least get them segregated from children they might be hurting, while you figure out what to do)?

 

It's tragic, always.  But these things are complicated and I feel no confidence in a legislative solution.  But one thing that seems clear to me is that we need to make a lot more help available to struggling families (both adopted and biological).  The fact that people are so desperate that they are looking to get rid of their kids on the internet tells us that there is a need.  The proliferation of "reform camps" is another sign.  Making illegal one desperate solution, I believe, isn't really going to solve anything.  These people need help.

[SparklyUnicorn]

How sad for that girl. 

 

 

[texasmama]

I don't know, because I'm not that informed about adoption laws and proceedings.  In the case of the news article I linked, the parents who "rehomed" the daughter had legally adopted her.  Then, they gave her to another family, but that family did not adopt her.  So, legally, she was still the daughter of the first family. 

 

I didn't see anywhere where it stated if they even named the second family as legal guardians.  This whole process seems very blurry to me.

 

Anyone can do this at any time with any child.  I could arrange with you to take my 12 year old* because of any reason at any time.  You do not have to legally adopt him.  You can raise him with my permission.  Legally, you would need my permission to get him medical or mental health care and to sign him into school, but he could live with you until adulthood.  People do this informally, with grandparents rearing grandchildren (parents on drugs or other reasons) or even among unrelated groups.

 

There is really no oversight after adoptions are finalized.  There is also usually no funding.  If you adopt from CPS in Texas, you can receive a monthly stipend for "hard to adopt kids", which usually means older kids, sibling groups, or kids with special needs.  Kids adopted from foster care in Texas receive Medicaid until adulthood.  There are limited post-adoption services in terms of residential treatment centers for out of control kids.  

 

Sometimes adoptions fail.  Sometimes kids are "given back" to the system of CPS.  Some kids do not do well in homes - older kids with RAD, for one example.  The strain to have a relationship is too much for them (grossly oversimplified), and they actually do better in group homes.  

 

Adoptive placements are followed in some manner by an agency (usually) until consumation. (legal adoption)  This would be at least six months after the physical placement of the child in a home, per state law.  Again, my experience is Texas-related.

 

I've seen some things working in the adoptive/foster care system for years that cannot be unseen.

 

*Just an example - I'm not looking to offload my 12 year old.  :)

[SparklyUnicorn]

Although who ultimately is responsible if something happens if someone isn't formally adopted? 

 

 

Anyone can do this at any time with any child.  I could arrange with you to take my 12 year old* because of any reason at any time.  You do not have to legally adopt him.  You can raise him with my permission.  Legally, you would need my permission to get him medical or mental health care and to sign him into school, but he could live with you until adulthood.  People do this informally, with grandparents rearing grandchildren (parents on drugs or other reasons) or even among unrelated groups.

 

There is really no oversight after adoptions are finalized.  There is also usually no funding.  If you adopt from CPS in Texas, you can receive a monthly stipend for "hard to adopt kids", which usually means older kids, sibling groups, or kids with special needs.  Kids adopted from foster care in Texas receive Medicaid until adulthood.  There are limited post-adoption services in terms of residential treatment centers for out of control kids.  

 

Sometimes adoptions fail.  Sometimes kids are "given back" to the system of CPS.  Some kids do not do well in homes - older kids with RAD, for one example.  The strain to have a relationship is too much for them (grossly oversimplified), and they actually do better in group homes.  

 

Adoptive placements are followed in some manner by an agency (usually) until consumation. (legal adoption)  This would be at least six months after the physical placement of the child in a home, per state law.  Again, my experience is Texas-related.

 

I've seen some things working in the adoptive/foster care system for years that cannot be unseen.

 

*Just an example - I'm not looking to offload my 12 year old.   :)

 

[Farrar]

This is it, right?

 

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/adoption/#article/part1

 

Yes! Like Katie, I was also thinking of that piece and couldn't seem to find it.

[texasmama]

Although who ultimately is responsible if something happens if someone isn't formally adopted? 

The adoptive parents are legally responsible for the child.

[Carrie12345]

The problem, in my head, is that adopted children often have much more difficult problems than biological children from stable homes.  But adopted children are legally equal.  Like texasmama said, I could send my 17yo or my 4yo to live with whomever I chose if they became "too much" for me.

 

Now, if I make a bad choice of person, child services could certainly hold me responsible if I were still the legal parent.  But, if I were broke, or addicted to drugs, or my child was out of control and the change of physical custody benefited them in the long run, I would simply be a mom who made the best choice for her child.

[LucyStoner]

This is it, right?

 

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/adoption/#article/part1

Yep. Thanks. I'm too generally ragey today about some special ed shizznit for my son to be a compenent googler. I knew it was a financially associated paper but not the WSJ and my mind was blanking on Reuters.

[SKL]

State laws should probably require some oversight if an adopted child's custody changes.  I'm not sure exactly what that should look like.

 

As an adopted mom, I don't want CPS up my butt checking to see if have child locks on my cupboards etc. when I am the kids' parent.  But I would be OK with them having a meeting with me and my kids from time to time.  More importantly, there should be financial assistance available for needed services.  I have many parents in my network whose kids are having behavior or educational issues, but they can't afford counseling or testing or tutoring or whatever.  Some of these kids possibly suffer from RAD.  What are the parents supposed to do?

[FaithManor]

One of the biggest issues we have is no support for both biological and adoptive parents of a child who turns out to have reactive attachment disorder. These children are very mentally ill, often violent. I don't know the particulars of this case, but I know of a family in Mid-Michigan who adopted a child from foster care who had RAD. She tortured the family pets, preyed on the other children in the home, and twice attempted to burn the family house down with the family in it. They could never get more than a 72 hour psyche hold for her, and when they finally were at the end of their rope knowing that one of these times she really would be successful in murdering someone, they refused to pick her up from the hospital after her psyche hold. The family went into hiding because the police came after them for child neglect. The county tried to prosecute them and the only reason they didn't go to jail was that a cracker jack legal team from one of the universities took the case pro bono and had them do media interviews about the lack of support there was for them. The child was placed back in foster care, no family would keep her because she was so bent on torturing animals and attacking people, and eventually she did land in residential treatment...an option that was not open to the family when they begged for help. Atrocious.

 

I don't know about this particular case, but when older children are adopted they often have very serious mental health problems because of the terrible things that have happened to them, and our system provides zero help. Then again, people with biological children who have major problems often times do not receive any help either. It's just that quite often we hear more in the media about adoptive families.

 

I have done respite care for foster families that have RAD children. I have scars in a few places from trying to restrain them. It's like wrestling an angry rhino, but when the six year old wants to drown the baby in the toilet, you do what you have to do.

 

As for placing children with someone else? Easy Peasy. We had our niece for quite a while on a temporary guardianship. Never met with the court or social services. My brother signed a paper and voila, she was ours. He could have kept doing that every year until she turned 18 if we had agreed to the arrangement.

[Excelsior! Academy]

***************SNIP*******************

As for placing children with someone else? Easy Peasy. We had our niece for quite a while on a temporary guardianship. Never met with the court or social services. My brother signed a paper and voila, she was ours. He could have kept doing that every year until she turned 18 if we had agreed to the arrangement.

 

 

 

Yes, and there are legal terms for this.  In my state it is called a private kinship. 

[Aelwydd]

One of the biggest issues we have is no support for both biological and adoptive parents of a child who turns out to have reactive attachment disorder. These children are very mentally ill, often violent. I don't know the particulars of this case, but I know of a family in Mid-Michigan who adopted a child from foster care who had RAD. She tortured the family pets, preyed on the other children in the home, and twice attempted to burn the family house down with the family in it. They could never get more than a 72 hour psyche hold for her, and when they finally were at the end of their rope knowing that one of these times she really would be successful in murdering someone, they refused to pick her up from the hospital after her psyche hold. The family went into hiding because the police came after them for child neglect. The county tried to prosecute them and the only reason they didn't go to jail was that a cracker jack legal team from one of the universities took the case pro bono and had them do media interviews about the lack of support there was for them. The child was placed back in foster care, no family would keep her because she was so bent on torturing animals and attacking people, and eventually she did land in residential treatment...an option that was not open to the family when they begged for help. Atrocious.

 

I don't know about this particular case, but when older children are adopted they often have very serious mental health problems because of the terrible things that have happened to them, and our system provides zero help. Then again, people with biological children who have major problems often times do not receive any help either. It's just that quite often we hear more in the media about adoptive families.

 

I have done respite care for foster families that have RAD children. I have scars in a few places from trying to restrain them. It's like wrestling an angry rhino, but when the six year old wants to drown the baby in the toilet, you do what you have to do.

 

As for placing children with someone else? Easy Peasy. We had our niece for quite a while on a temporary guardianship. Never met with the court or social services. My brother signed a paper and voila, she was ours. He could have kept doing that every year until she turned 18 if we had agreed to the arrangement.

 

I have come across multiple stories of situations like this, as well, Faith.  I do think there needs to be consistent and effective support for parents of RAD children.  I also agree with SKL that having CPS constantly butting into an adoptive family's affairs can be stressful and disruptive.  But, there needs to be some sort of protection for kids as well.

 

Honestly, I know a lot of people will strongly disagree, but this is a reason why I don't think "adoption is the answer!" to every unwanted or unplanned pregnancy.  I am not a fan of abortion, but I can tolerate early abortions if the alternative are groups of self-destructive children that end up with terrible lives and are terrorizing their siblings and adoptive parents.  I just don't have any faith in CPS or the foster care system to properly care for and socialize these kids they end up pulling from drug addicted and violent families.

 

Actually, the thought of increasing abortions makes me sick (because of the waste of human potential).  I don't know the answer.

 

[LucyStoner]

I've known parents with adopted and biological children who had exceptionally high needs who couldn't access mental health services or inpatient treatment without giving up custody and potentially facing abandonment charges. It's a truly appalling state of affairs when it comes to mental health care funding and access. Kids can wait 1-3 years for in home supports and sometimes things like ABA even in states where they have "good" mental health care and in some areas those things aren't even available at all except to people who are wealthy. It's a resource allocation issue. A small part of what we drop on prisons could go a long way to provide child mental health services and also save us on crime and prison costs later.

[Anne in CA]

It is very sad that mental health care is such a low priority right now.  I had a cook last year who started off well. He had an incident where he got drunk and violent and didn't come to work because he was in jail. I overlooked it, (didn't have much choice anyway, needed him) and two months later he didn't come in again and that time it was that he tried to commit suicide. His wife told me that the previous fall he started to get depressed, their family was on MediCal, they got him on a waiting list for a mental health screening in November, the next July when he tried to kill himself he still was on a waiting list for an appointment. That's right, he was still months, if not a year away from an appointment. He didn't want to go to San Diego for inpatient treatment after he was revived so the hospital had him arrested and sent to jail to avoid dealing with him anymore. He got out of jail after a couple of days and has been living with elderly relatives since then without a job. He lost his driver's license and could no longer drive to our work. Before he tried to kill himself he had already been disrespectful to me and refused to do things I needed him to do, so I was about to let him go as soon as I didn't need him anyway. 

 

The cost of not treating mental health is more than not. The financial drain this man has been on his wife, his grandparents, employers and society in general has to be a lot, lot more than getting him help.

[FaithManor]

I have come across multiple stories of situations like this, as well, Faith.  I do think there needs to be consistent and effective support for parents of RAD children.  I also agree with SKL that having CPS constantly butting into an adoptive family's affairs can be stressful and disruptive.  But, there needs to be some sort of protection for kids as well.

 

Honestly, I know a lot of people will strongly disagree, but this is a reason why I don't think "adoption is the answer!" to every unwanted or unplanned pregnancy.  I am not a fan of abortion, but I can tolerate early abortions if the alternative are groups of self-destructive children that end up with terrible lives and are terrorizing their siblings and adoptive parents.  I just don't have any faith in CPS or the foster care system to properly care for and socialize these kids they end up pulling from drug addicted and violent families.

 

Actually, the thought of increasing abortions makes me sick (because of the waste of human potential).  I don't know the answer.

 

I understand completely. And while the romantic notion of a loving family for every child sounds nice, we need to face the reality that some children are very mentally ill, some need to do a lot of emotional healing, some are going to need significant inpatient treatment and a regular home is not a good idea because they aren't ready yet to form those emotional bonds which to them are a HUGE demand on their mental and emotional resources. To them, the relationships of mom, dad, and siblings is too demanding to handle. It is 2015 and we know a lot more than we used to. It is entirely possible to create nurturing, safe, residential treatment centers that offer all kinds of therapy, healthy food, well paid, decent, properly vetted staff to take care of them, and education as well. Children given appropriate intervention may then be ready for a family environment with its entirely different structure and demands.

 

We could do this. However, it is not a priority for our government and they are not likely to give resources that go to their rich buddy friends to the cause. There is no wealthy children's lobby for children with mental health issues.

[Melissa in Australia]

I have come across multiple stories of situations like this, as well, Faith.  I do think there needs to be consistent and effective support for parents of RAD children.  I also agree with SKL that having CPS constantly butting into an adoptive family's affairs can be stressful and disruptive.  But, there needs to be some sort of protection for kids as well.

 

Honestly, I know a lot of people will strongly disagree, but this is a reason why I don't think "adoption is the answer!" to every unwanted or unplanned pregnancy.  I am not a fan of abortion, but I can tolerate early abortions if the alternative are groups of self-destructive children that end up with terrible lives and are terrorizing their siblings and adoptive parents.  I just don't have any faith in CPS or the foster care system to properly care for and socialize these kids they end up pulling from drug addicted and violent families.

 

Actually, the thought of increasing abortions makes me sick (because of the waste of human potential).  I don't know the answer.

 

My personal and  a very unpopular view is that if people chose to do drugs they should have mandatory sterilization. ESPECIALLY if they have already had a child removed.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Criminal Minds actually did an episode on this.  I can't even...

[Garga]

I think many times that rehoming comes about because of kids with RAD. Which is a very, very scary condition that severely neglected humans can develop. It's beyond heartbreaking and everything I write below is written with a tone of sadness over what happens to these kids.

 

(Edited: I've rewritten the opening sentences. The tone was NOT coming across correctly. I changed it to how I meant for it to come across.

 

Back to my post: )

 

 

There was a prolific poster a few years ago with a RAD kid. She had to keep her daughter within her sight literally every waking moment. She would stare at her child all day long and only glance away to get things done. And one time, she glanced away for a few seconds and the child gouged deep grooves into her new kitchen cabinets with a piece of an old alarm clock that she'd pried off. The child had pried off the piece of the clock, waiting for a chance to ruin the cabinets because the child ruined everything the mother had on purpose. They hadn't realized that this piece of clock could be pried off because they did their best to be sure the child didn't have access to something that could be considered a weapon. They used to have to keep her in an empty room at night, locked, because she tried to kill the biological daughter and the pets. There was nothing in the room because the child could turn anything into a weapon (like the piece of clock.) The child had thought ahead of what could be something hateful to do and decided to ruin the expensive kitchen renovation. It was just heartbreaking when that poster would post. She rarely told the full story, though, because it was just too much and I think she was afraid people wouldn't understand why she kept that child so close to her side every waking hour. I'm pretty sure that the child had killed a few family pets. This is scaaaaary stuff.

 

And there was another poster who had a child visit their home and put cleaning chemicals in their fishtank on purpose and when the poster confronted the child for killing all their fish, the child laughed at the poster. The child was never invited back again. I'll bet that child had RAD or something.

 

It reminds me of Anne of Green Gables when the nosy neighbor is horrified that Miranda will adopt a child because adopted children "always try to burn down the house" when they're adopted. Most kids don't, but there are a literal few who will burn down the house and torture the family pets to death.

 

I'm not afraid to admit that I could NOT handle a child like that and would rehome him or her. I couldn't live with the threat of death over my head. These children honestly may try to kill you. And they're super manipulative and are well-known for targetting the mother of the household and doing things on the sly so that the father or other people (CPS) have no idea about what's going on. It's just so creepy. It's like a horror movie.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Garga

[Garga]

Oh, and no one has a clue how to help people with things like RAD. Sometimes when they're adopted very young, you can help them a bit by treating them like a complete infant and "resetting" their brains somehow. They'll sort of forget how terribly neglected they were as babies and you start over. But it doesn't work when the child is older, or if you do it wrong, or for a bunch of other reasons. There's no treatment. I honestly couldn't live with a child who would kill the pets and try to murder members of the household.

 

Now, I don't know if the kid in the article is like that, but there are kids like that out there and those are the type to be rehomed. This isn't a case of a kid throwing fits or stealing stuff. This is life and death. And these RAD kids also do an excellent job of convincing people that the father of the house abused them. I can't imagine living with a child who is trying to kill my other kids, kill my pets, kill me, and frame my husband for sexual abuse. That's just itolerable.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Garga

[torikei]

Those RAD kids--like they're a gang or something. I'm sorry but as an adoptive parent I found this offensive.

[Caroline]

I always think of Denise who used to post here when these discussion come up. She really helped me help my neighbor whose child has RAD, but not to that level. I do worry that something awful happened and that's why we haven't heard from her in so long. (But I'm fatalistic like that.)

 

I do think that part f the answer to this and other problems is better mental health care in this country.

[DawnM]

This actually happened to one of DH's coworkers.

 

She was so excited to adopt a 5 year old girl from India.  She talked to DH a lot about it since we have an Asian adopted kid.

 

Once the girl got here the excitement stopped.  The girl was difficult and angry to have been taken to a new home, etc.....and the family seemed to not get why she wouldn't be grateful for her new home, after all, it was big and in America, and this girl was so lucky to have been adopted by them!  :confused1:

 

Anyway, after 6 months they "re-homed" her to a place in Indiana where a wonderful family took in adopted kid who were no longer wanted.

We actually thought of offering to take her if that didn't work out.  We would have offered first but didn't find out until the Indiana family had already been contacted.  

 

This was right around the time that Russian kid was shipped back to Russia.

[school17777]

I have a friend who does foster care in our area and her best friends adopts a lot of kids. One of the adopted kids has RAD. There is no help. Her marriage has ended over it. If they put the child in foster care, they are responsible for the costs (over $1k a month, don't remember the exact figure) until the child turns 18. They can't afford it, so the child is still at home.

[shawthorne44]

In the example posted, I don't see what how more oversight would help.  CPS had already placed the kids with meth heads.  I am very naive, but I even I can spot meth heads.   

 

It would seem that parents, even adoptive parents, should be able to turn over their kids to the foster system if they are over their heads.  Or being able to put the child in residential pysch. treatment.  There are some things I'm not capable of handling. Someone attempting to kill anyone, including a pet, isn't one of them.  We'd like another child, and I thought about adopting an older child.  I looked at the profiles of many kids.  Most of them mentioned abuse in their past, and problem behavior.  But, none of them said, "This child will molest your other children and try to kill people".   

[beaners]

I understand why some disruptions happen in adoption. (Some I don't understand, but maybe I don't have enough information to make that call.) I know a few families who adopted at the same time we did who have considered or gone through with disruptions. In two of those families it was because of literally fearing for their lives due to the (older) children's behavior. Another family that I know of but don't know personally didn't think they were able to continue 24 hour supervision of a child because they were concerned about behaviors indicating past abuse. We had to do 24 hour supervision of one of our boys for months and months for other reasons and it was exhausting, but we have been able to move past that point. We never put disruption on the table as an option.

 

The disruptions that I know of have gone through legal channels. There were homestudies and the legal system involved. I know there are people out there who have done things differently, under the radar. My own suspicion is that if it was easier to get respite through formal channels people would be less likely to go with whatever they can find when they have reached their breaking point. Maybe I'm wrong.

[texasmama]

RAD has a spectrum of severity just like any other disorder.  The examples listed in this thread are among the most severe.  Some kids with moderate to severe RAD truly do better in a group home or long-term residential treatment center.  

[texasmama]

It would seem that parents, even adoptive parents, should be able to turn over their kids to the foster system if they are over their heads.  Or being able to put the child in residential pysch. treatment.  There are some things I'm not capable of handling. Someone attempting to kill anyone, including a pet, isn't one of them.  We'd like another child, and I thought about adopting an older child.  I looked at the profiles of many kids.  Most of them mentioned abuse in their past, and problem behavior.  But, none of them said, "This child will molest your other children and try to kill people".   

They can.  But the foster care system is overburdened so CPS can legally pursue and obtain child support from parents.

[jelbe5]

I looked at the profiles of many kids. Most of them mentioned abuse in their past, and problem behavior. But, none of them said, "This child will molest your other children and try to kill people".

I briefly worked with a family who was fostering a 5 year old at the therapeutic day school I worked at. The girl had been taken from her home because it was suspected that she was being sexually abused. The foster mother had this child and her bio child share a bedroom. She opened the door during nap time to find the foster girl sexually abusing her bio daughter. The foster mom had been given very little info on the girl's situation, had not been warned about possible sexual abuse (this girl acted out sexually on the school bus and at school, trying to touch other students in appropriately). She called CPS and handed her back. I think, in many cases, CPS deliberately withholds info that could be helpful to foster parents in an effort to place children. These issues often do not "go away" just because the foster child is now in a stable, safe environment. Very sad for everyone.

[Pronghorn]

There ARE ways to help kids with RAD. It is certainly not easy or cheap or universally treatable. However many children have been helped, and not by helping them forget how neglected they were.

 

 

Oh, and no one has a clue how to help people with things like RAD. Sometimes when they're adopted very young, you can help them a bit by treating them like a complete infant and "resetting" their brains somehow. They'll sort of forget how terribly neglected they were as babies and you start over. But it doesn't work when the child is older, or if you do it wrong, or for a bunch of other reasons. There's no treatment. I honestly couldn't live with a child who would kill the pets and try to murder members of the household.

 

Now, I don't know if the kid in the article is like that, but there are kids like that out there and those are the type to be rehomed. This isn't a case of a kid throwing fits or stealing stuff. This is life and death. And these RAD kids also do an excellent job of convincing people that the father of the house abused them. I can't imagine living with a child who is trying to kill my other kids, kill my pets, kill me, and frame my husband for sexual abuse. That's just itolerable.

[Garga]

Those RAD kids--like they're a gang or something. I'm sorry but as an adoptive parent I found this offensive.

I am sorry. Tone doesn't come across. My tone as I was writing was one of sad anguish for the children who have been so severly neglected that they lose their humanity and for the people who have opened their homes to love a child and the child simply cannot be loved. For a human being to have been so neglected that they become murderous as a child is horrific to me. And the people who find themselves with one of the kids who simply cannot be helped have my complete sympathy. I do not judge someone who cannot handle that level of .. I don't even know the word. That level of brokenness, I suppose. I was attempting to show the other side: that some of the parents who rehome kids sometimes have no other option.

[texasmama]

I briefly worked with a family who was fostering a 5 year old at the therapeutic day school I worked at. The girl had been taken from her home because it was suspected that she was being sexually abused. The foster mother had this child and her bio child share a bedroom. She opened the door during nap time to find the foster girl sexually abusing her bio daughter. The foster mom had been given very little info on the girl's situation, had not been warned about possible sexual abuse (this girl acted out sexually on the school bus and at school, trying to touch other students in appropriately). She called CPS and handed her back. I think, in many cases, CPS deliberately withholds info that could be helpful to foster parents in an effort to place children. These issues often do not "go away" just because the foster child is now in a stable, safe environment. Very sad for everyone.

Having worked inside the system, I would assume that every kid in foster care has a sexual abuse history..  

 

If I were going to do foster care, I would wait until my biological kids were old enough not to be victims.

 

I have not known CPS to deliberately withhold information (not that it never happened because CPS is made up of people with varying degrees of ethics just like any other profession).  More likely, the information is unknown and does not come to light until an incident like the above.  Thus, it is important to assume the history when it is unknown.

 

The state does not make a very good parent.  As long as there are abusive and neglectful parents, there will be kids in foster care.  The vast majority of kids I worked with in foster care were there because of parents with drug problems that led to abuse and neglect.

[Garga]

There ARE ways to help kids with RAD. It is certainly not easy or cheap or universally treatable. However many children have been helped, and not by helping them forget how neglected they were.

 

 

 

Of course there are treatments, but they don't always work for the worst cases.

 

I'm going off a memory a few years old, but at that time there was a treatment where you took the child back to infancy and swaddled them and bottle fed them, etc, to reset their beginning. And I'm sure it was controversial and sometimes worked and sometimes didn't. And perhaps over the past few years they've stopped doing that. I know that the hive member who posted had gone to doctor upon doctor and tried everything and there was nothing left to be done for her child. They had run out of treatments that would work. So, she sat next to the child all day long, looking at her, to stop her from harming anyone.

 

There are all different levels of RAD. The ones that can be handled, are handled. But there are some that can't. Same thing for all mental illnesses. And some people cannot handle the severe cases without literally risking their lives or the lives of their other children and even pets. Those people may attempt to rehome one of these children and they should not be condemned.

 

Of course, there are different levels of RAD and of course there are many kids who are helped.

 

But I was talking about the ones with severe levels who simply are not helped. I hated the idea of the thread being about, "These adoptive parents are monsters!" when sometimes they're not. Sometimes the children are very, very broken and can be very, very violent. And there is no help for some of them. What are people supposed to do?

 

Like others said, sometimes people with RAD do better in group homes. Something inside of them cannot handle the idea of being close to a family so they lash out in violent ways, but in a group home it's not the same dynamic.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Garga

[Pronghorn]

It seems like almost everyone in this conversation is an onlooker, and the RAD kids and their parents are voiceless. As an adoptive parent, I have followed some of the research and networked with and become friends with people whose children were impacted by RAD. This is why I object to broad generalizations about the kids and parents. Each child and each parent is an individual. More help is needed to enable parents to afford the treatment their kids need.

[KrissiK]

Abortion is not the answer. This is in response to a previous post. My children are all adopted from the foster care system and while we have our problems (as all families do), we are a happy functional family. The best outcome for children is not such a heavy push on reunification with bio-parents, which can leave children languishing in foster care for years, but rather early intervention and a fast track to a stable family and strong adoptive placement. Spend more time vetting potential adoptive families and making that more of a priority.

[Garga]

It seems like almost everyone in this conversation is an onlooker, and the RAD kids and their parents are voiceless. As an adoptive parent, I have followed some of the research and networked with and become friends with people whose children were impacted by RAD. This is why I object to broad generalizations about the kids and parents. Each child and each parent is an individual. More help is needed to enable parents to afford the treatment their kids need.

You know what? As much as I hate admitting I'm wrong, you're right. This is the sort of thread where people, like me, who haven't been there done that should take a backseat to the people who have.

[KrissiK]

Like others said, sometimes people with RAD do better in group homes. Something inside of them cannot handle the idea of being close to a family so they lash out in violent ways, but in a group home it's not the same dynamic.

I agree with this. I know a family (nit very well, but I do know them personally) who have adopted a lot of kids from orphanages in Russia and Eastern Europe. From the looks of it, they are successful. And I think it is because they have a large family and there is more emotional space. They have also adopted children from disruptions and seem to have been successful. (One of these adoptions I do have personal knowledge of). They aren't perfect and I know they have issues but I wonder if it is easier for these children, coming out of orphanages, to not have the close emotional demands of "loving parents" all of the sudden.

[Pronghorn]

Large families tend to have a lot of structure, and structure helps RAD kids feel safer. And also the intimacy level is generally lower, also making the kids feel safer.

[mommaduck]

The entire adoption industry needs to be overhauled and cleaned up and supports put in place for both adopting parents and the children.

 

I'll leave that there and not go further, because this is one of those issues that makes my blood boil.

[mommaduck]

It reminds me of Anne of Green Gables when the nosy neighbor is horrified that Miranda will adopt a child because adopted children "always try to burn down the house" when they're adopted. Most kids don't, but there are a literal few who will burn down the house and torture the family pets to death.

 

Unfortunately, this is how adoptees are often viewed by the media, as ungrateful, destructive, bad seed, etc. We're just doomed to be losers and criminals the way some articles and books are written. Look up Bastard Nation on Facebook.

[Excelsior! Academy]

My personal and  a very unpopular view is that if people chose to do drugs they should have mandatory sterilization. ESPECIALLY if they have already had a child removed.

 

Yes!  We are raising children that were exposed to Meth in utero.  Mom was given appointments for sterilization, but didn't follow through with them and more children were born.  

 

 

Large families tend to have a lot of structure, and structure helps RAD kids feel safer. And also the intimacy level is generally lower, also making the kids feel safer.

 

I agree with the structure point and feeling of safeness.  As a mommy of a large family, I strongly disagree with the intimacy assumption.  

 

One of mine is a child with RAD, though thankfully not as extreme as the cases listed here!!  He has made *tremendous* strides and now I can even go to the bathroom without requiring him to sit outside the door with his fingers where I can see them.  I 100% believe he can and will be a functioning adult.  It just takes a very long time to rebuild trust and feel empathy when someone as small as he was went through the things he did.  I would be as angry or more if I had been through what that little guy had been!!!