IfIOnly Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Although it's correct grammar, using shall in coversation feels strange. I do want my kids to apply shall correctly in writing and coversation in formal seetings, but it just feels old and uppity otherwise. :p Opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 I use I'll and we'll usually in conversation, which works too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrichor Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Mostly only when I say "Shall we go to the park?" for example. I don't say "We shall go to the park at 1pm" or "...And then I shall take you to the park." To me, and my American English, it sounds strange, probably because we tend to just stick with "will." And for the same reason, "I'll" or "we'll" means "I will" and "we will" in my head, rather than "I shall" or "We shall." Here's a good article with some comparison on the two: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/shall-versus-will 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristie in Florida Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 When we are playing house and reenacting the olden prairie times, yep. I started it when I was a little girl in my make pretend bonnet and aprons*, and it stuck. But officially, no. Although my husband occasionally says, "We shall see," which the rest of us is starting to say too. *I was obsessed with Little House in the Prairie... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Mostly only when I say "Shall we go to the park?" for example. I don't say "We shall go to the park at 1pm" or "...And then I shall take you to the park." To me, and my American English, it sounds strange, probably because we tend to just stick with "will." And for the same reason, "I'll" or "we'll" means "I will" and "we will" in my head, rather than "I shall" or "We shall." Here's a good article with some comparison on the two: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/shall-versus-will Great article. I think "May I take your coat?" rather than shall I sounds more casual and is correct too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girls' Mom Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 This came up at our house today! My oldest dd was told not to use shall on the library website (where she works) because it sounded too old fashioned. She was a little miffed...lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I use "shall." Probably not exactly the way it was used in the old days, but it is a normal part of my vocabulary. "We shall see." "Shall we head over to the library now?" "I shall do that after I finish this." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I use "shall". It just sounds right to say "We shall see later that...". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHASRADA Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Nope. I never encountered it outside of classic literature, never heard anyone use it in conversation, and don't really know when and why it should be used. To my ear, it is a British anachronism and therefore is not part of my modern American English vernacular. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Only when being pretentious. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I do sometimes. I think shall is a lovely word and not used nearly often enough. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I use it when it fits and communicates what I want to communicate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I don't know how else to phrase sentences that usually begin with, "Shall we....." I didn't get the memo about this word becoming obsolete, but I have noted that most people seem to prefer a very limited vocabulary these days. People are out to annoy the literate. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 I don't know how else to phrase sentences that usually begin with, "Shall we....." I didn't get the memo about this word becoming obsolete, but I have noted that most people seem to prefer a very limited vocabulary these days. People are out to annoy the literate. It never occures to me to use shall we. I just say let's, which I think is a request, but maybe it's techically a command though. I have never heard anyone use shall in conversation except my English MIL. It's just so foreign to me. This has been an interesting discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Ds (who gets a kick out of language usage) has been known to say "shan't". Shan't is the contraction for shall not. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Oh, I love shan't! Oughtn't I don't use too often, but my mom loves it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Shan't and shall give you the great quote from the original Parent Trap. Susan, trying her best to use Sharon's Boston accent, says (complete with a few mistakes when she shifts back to her California accent), "I shan't tell my aunt about the ants nor the debutantes. Shall I?" A line that makes no sense, but is, nonetheless hilarious in the movie. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I use it sometimes. But in all fairness, I enjoy sounding affected sometimes, so... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I've had people tell me that I talk like a book. Fine. It is good to talk like a book. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 "Shall we?" "Yes we shall." "I think I shall have another glass of tequila." Yeah, I guess I do, but not often. Also, "We shall see." 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 We shall overcome. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 To add... I never use shan't but maybe it's time to start. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I do. I expect I shall continue to do so. Regards, Kareni 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I don't know how else to phrase sentences that usually begin with, "Shall we....." I didn't get the memo about this word becoming obsolete, but I have noted that most people seem to prefer a very limited vocabulary these days. People are out to annoy the literate. This reminds me of John Branyan's Old English version of the Three Little Pigs. He said in those days the children had a larger vocabulary than most adults today. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Funnily enough, I just received a text from my adult daughter. She used the word 'shall' in her message. I told my husband about this thread; he uses the word 'shall' also. Clearly, my daughter comes by her vocabulary honestly! Regards, Kareni 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I will bet none of those kids knew the words bling, cool (as we know it), psych, freaky, computer, science, etc. Our vocabulary is also rich in different ways. We don't say I shall, but some of us say "imma" or "I'm gonna" or "I'm fixing to" which you don't read in a lot of old texts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikslo Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This reminds me of John Branyan's Old English version of the Three Little Pigs. He said in those days the children had a larger vocabulary than most adults today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxoUUbMii7Q Thanks for posting this! 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yes, I do. But it is properly only to be used in the 1st person. In the 2nd or 3rd person it is more proper to use "will". However, sometimes I also use it in the 2nd/3rd person, just to be rebellious. Cuz I'm bad that way. (LOL) Really? I think you might be incorrect here. There is a well known Catholic hymn that uses You shall... several times throughout the song. Also, the 10 commandments - you know, Thou shalt not... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Really? I think you might be incorrect here. There is a well known Catholic hymn that uses You shall... several times throughout the song. Also, the 10 commandments - you know, Thou shalt not... Our grammar book says it's first person too. I shall and we shall are correct, but you shall or they shall are not. If I'm understanding right, it should be you will or they will. I'm no expert by any means though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Apparently that's a traditional rule, but does not actually indicate that shall can only be used in first person. When you want to express a strong determination to do something, shall is proper in second and third person which totally explains the use of shalt in the 10 Commandments. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/shall-or-will 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I don't know how else to phrase sentences that usually begin with, "Shall we....." I didn't get the memo about this word becoming obsolete, but I have noted that most people seem to prefer a very limited vocabulary these days. People are out to annoy the literate. I think most people would say, "Should we....", but "Shall we...." sounds so much more pleasant! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I only use it now and then, and only to begin a sentence, "Shall we...?" I do like the sound of it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.Ivy Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I don't know how else to phrase sentences that usually begin with, "Shall we....." I didn't get the memo about this word becoming obsolete, but I have noted that most people seem to prefer a very limited vocabulary these days. People are out to annoy the literate. In my circle we say, "Hey, you wanna....." haha 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syllieann Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Really? I think you might be incorrect here. There is a well known Catholic hymn that uses You shall... several times throughout the song. Also, the 10 commandments - you know, Thou shalt not... I wondered about this too, but I've seen the first person rule from multiple sources. After I googled for awhile (hehe, another word unknown to the children of bygone eras) I found that when Kjv was written the word "will" meant to desire something to be done. Therefore the Latin word for the future was rendered shall. The first person vs third person distinction came later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I will bet none of those kids knew the words bling, cool (as we know it), psych, freaky, computer, science, etc. Our vocabulary is also rich in different ways. We don't say I shall, but some of us say "imma" or "I'm gonna" or "I'm fixing to" which you don't read in a lot of old texts. Right, but the point was in the number of words used. The figure I believe he gives is people had a spoken vocabulary of 54,000 words, compared to a vocabulary of 3,000 words used today. It may also be because we tend to speak more succinctly, in contrast to the verbose, roundabout way they spoke in days of old. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I am skeptical. I doubt that includes the increase in written communication. Also I always wonder if they were sampling from an equally broad population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I regularly use shan't. I inherited that language trait from my mother. ETA: Another inherited-from-mom trait: Oughtn't I say "shan't" when I'm pretending to be Mary Poppins, and want my girls to pick up a bit faster. "If you do not pick up the pace and have this play room spit-spot, pip-pip, cheerio, then we shaaaahn't go to the paaahk this aaaahfternoon." I do occasionally use shall, shan't, ought, and oughtn't in genuinely serious and proper ways. I also like to throw in some Floridian verb usages from time to time. My favorite is "might could." As in, "Waaaaaall, we might could take a picnic along with us if you'd like." I just love "might could." I had a friend in college (from FL) who said this all the time, and I liked it so much, it stuck. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 You shall not pass!! It wouldn't sound the same any other way. I use shall quite often, but there is still a lot of British influence in our dialect here. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 We were out to dinner tonight and our guest asked "Does anyone say 'shall' anymore?" And I had an answer because of this thread! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I've never known anyone IRL who used shall in normal conversation. I've heard people use it for humor now and then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Only in set phrases like "We shall see what we shall see". It's not part of my dialect and, hence, is not correct grammar for me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I'm around people with large vocabularies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 "Shall we go?" asked in a slightly impatient voice while standing at the open front door. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gimbalsoph Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This came up at our house today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 It's a day later and I'm still baffled that people think 'shall' is a pretentious word, or that the only usage appropriate today is as a silly affectation. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I'm around people with large vocabularies. Whereas, I'm around (mostly) prekindergartners. I pour vocabulary into them, including shall. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 As much as I would adore to use the word shall, it's completely off my radar. I never hear anyone using it now and never have heard anyone use it, so I honestly didn't think people used it anymore. I'm pleasantly surprised to hear that they do. I need to research the correct usage of the word so I can start using it, too. I shall begin my research today. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikslo Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 My son had to write sentences with his spelling words yesterday and he used shall in one of them. He didn't understand why I was giggling. He thought maybe he spelled it wrong. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Shall we go,You and IWhile we can?ThroughThe transitive nightfallof diamonds Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 You shall not pass!! It wouldn't sound the same any other way. I use shall quite often, but there is still a lot of British influence in our dialect here. Ah! There's one of those second person exceptions. It is meant to be stronger or more forceful so shall is used instead even though it is not first person. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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