amy g. Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Did she feed them animal feed because they don't believe in accepting food stamps? The quiverfull families I know in real life are on food stamps and Medicaid and still beg for money through GoFundMes and FB for everything from underwear for the kids to cars rather than actually going out and getting real jobs. I can not understand their rationalizations at all. The only thing I can think of is that it is some kind of mental illness. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Probably the food stamp thing. The Pearls don't believe in their children getting legally married because that would yolk them with gay people now that they're allowed to get married. They had this belief before the recent SCOTUS decision because Michael Pearl has more foresight than Kim Davis and knew it was coming. :p 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 you know - if it wasn't for the hive - I wouldn't know anything about gothard, ati, the pearls, their books or teachings, etc . . . it's been quite the education. *quite*. all sorts of things I'd happily never known existed until I came here . . . . btw: I'm horrified by them all - and don't think ignorance is bliss. it's just ignorance. (if my grandmother had been introduced to the teachings of the above - she'd probably have glommed onto them too. that's not saying much about any of them.) c'est la vie . . . . Yes, this is one of the positives of Internet. Information that truly needs to get out gets out. I've been applauding all of those who have come forward and some of the solid journalism of the unfolding events. Of course some of it is ugly, but I appreciate those who are trying to investigate properly and report the facts. Friends of mine from college were involved including my college boyfriend (whom thankfully I didn't marry), so I actually went to both the Basic and Advanced Seminar after graduate school in the mid-80's to see what it was about. I was already a skeptic, but I wanted to see for myself. What I saw disturbed me, and ever since I haven't held back in expressing my doubts. When they did a Basic Seminar in my town about a decade ago, I was asked to help with it, and told the organizers of my concerns. It went ahead anyway, but thankfully didn't get a foothold in our area. When the Duggars came to TV, I knew that I'd have to continue to fight the tide. So many homeschoolers raved about them. I remember hearing about the mobs when they came to the state homeschool convention, and a number of my friends went to their sessions. When they asked why I was not enthused about this, I told them. When Recovering Grace was created, I was very pleased because that was the first widely available, more comprehensive body of material questioning them. There had been a few articles and a book in 2003 and then some scattered blog posts more recently, but overall not much at all questioning the ministry and the man. When I spoke of my doubts, the common response was, "Well, that's just your opinion." Now it's hard to argue with what has happened to the ministry, so much more analysis of the teachings, and the sad stories that have been told. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Probably the food stamp thing. The Pearls don't believe in their children getting legally married because that would yolk them with gay people now that they're allowed to get married. They had this belief before the recent SCOTUS decision because Michael Pearl has more foresight than Kim Davis and knew it was coming. :p Wait - what?! Do they also not visit parks or libraries because gay people might jog on the trails or there might be non-fiction or fiction about LGBTQ? I *love* how homosexuality is THE sin we should bash, boycott or ban. Holy smokes. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 The Pearls don't believe in their children getting legally married because my understanding was the pearls are against legal marriage because the gov't would know to whom they're married. and not registering births - because the gov't would know the child exists . . . . and without those things - they can't get food stamps et. al. same thing with not enrolling in public school (so they homeschool) because they can again, fly under the gov't's radar and all the black helicopters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Or emotionally abuses her, and though she's an awful person, I'm fairly confident, based on what she's written, that Debi Pearl is being abused. A blog I read did a criticism/read-through of Chosen To Be His Help Meet a while back, and honestly, sometimes I just want to take young!Debi by the hand and lead her away from that awful marriage sometime before she develops Stockholm Syndrome and goes completely to the dark side. Nobody really deserves that. Deb Pearl is in her 60's I think and will not change without her dh dying and non of her sons taking the control. My mom didn't want to change she was condition to the lifestyle. My only brother was secular and still to this day will not see them except for about a hour at Christmas. I did spend my 20's away from them but at 30 forgave them and have taken care of them since my fathers stroke. I've posted my moms coming out (LOL) a bit on other threads. To be honesty I don't believe my father ever had affairs but he was a "bully" using spiritual abuse as his weapon. He did not physically abuse my mom but " Spare the rod Spare the child was the Law in my home" There were belts hung around the house for the deed I think the Pearl guy may of been a physical abusive guy in his younger years then turned to spiritual abuse to keep her condition for the past decades. I have never meet him but just that vibe kwim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 my understanding was the pearls are against legal marriage because the gov't would know to whom they're married. and not registering births - because the gov't would know the child exists . . . . and without those things - they can't get food stamps et. al. same thing with not enrolling in public school (so they homeschool) because they can again, fly under the gov't's radar and all the black helicopters. Cue up the tinfoil hats. Now I'm singing Weird Al's Tinfoil song... :) I didn't know people like that existed till we started homeschooling, and I found this board. It's heartbreaking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Cue up the tinfoil hats. Now I'm singing Weird Al's Tinfoil song... :) I didn't know people like that existed till we started homeschooling, and I found this board. It's heartbreaking. Weird Al has a tinfoil song? Oh my... must google... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Sure enough. Feast on this: 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Deb Pearl is in her 60's I think and will not change without her dh dying and non of her sons taking the control. Yes. The use of the exclam between young and Debi is to indicate that I'm referring to her when she was young. It's... maybe a fandom thing? You speak about good!Draco to indicate that *this* interation of Draco in your fic is a nice guy, or about evil!Kirk because in *this* story he's a bad guy. (Or nice!stepsisters, or ugly!Cinderella, or whatever.) I forget sometimes that not everybody uses the same shorthand :) I would like to take the younger version of Debi and remove her from a bad situation. Of course, without a Tardis this is not a thing that is going to happen. I think the Pearl guy may of been a physical abusive guy in his younger years then turned to spiritual abuse to keep her condition for the past decades. I have never meet him but just that vibe kwim That is definitely supported by the text of what they've written. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 my understanding was the pearls are against legal marriage because the gov't would know to whom they're married. and not registering births - because the gov't would know the child exists . . . . and without those things - they can't get food stamps et. al. same thing with not enrolling in public school (so they homeschool) because they can again, fly under the gov't's radar and all the black helicopters. http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/the-wedding/ Reads in part: None of my daughters or their husbands asked the state of Tennessee for permission to marry. They did not yoke themselves to government. It was a personal, private covenant, binding them together forever—until death. So when the sodomites have come to share in the state marriage licenses, which will eventually be the law, James and Shoshanna will not be in league with those perverts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Um, I don't see the big deal with "field corn"--that is just any of the varieties of corn that are left to dry in the field before harvesting, as opposed to sweet corn which is harvested earlier and eaten on the cob, frozen ,etc. Anyone who has ever eaten corn bread, corn tortillas, corn chips, etc. has eaten field corn. Yes, a lot of field corn is used as animal feed. An awful lot is also used as human feed and has been used that way ever since corn was first cultivated. Signed, someone who eats and enjoys field corn prepared in a variety of way ;) More info for those who never lived on a corn farm: http://www.agricultured.org/difference-between-sweet-corn-and-field-corn/ ETA: for clarity's sake, I have no interest in defending the Pearls. I do, however, have an interest in defending corn :) 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Sure enough. Feast on this: okay - who's the actor who is the producer/alien? I'm sure I've seen him somewhere else, but can't place him. does he look familiar to anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/the-wedding/ Reads in part: wow. sigh. anyone else think they (the pearl's, gothard, etc.) spend an awful lot of time thinking about s3x? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 okay - who's the actor who is the producer/alien? I'm sure I've seen him somewhere else, but can't place him. does he look familiar to anyone? He looks familiar to me too, but I don't know from where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzybluecheese Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 okay - who's the actor who is the producer/alien? I'm sure I've seen him somewhere else, but can't place him. does he look familiar to anyone? Patton Oswalt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I said "feed corn," not "field corn." Animal feed corn is treated with different herbicides and pesticides, and not cleared so well of rocks and dirt, and is generally not considered appropriate for human consumption. It's not as if you personally swiped an ear of corn from a cornfield, washed it, cut it off the cob, and dried it in the sun, and then ground it up yourself. It's a commercial product. Won't kill you quick but might have more cancer-causing agents and less nutrition...it exists to fatten up feedlot beef and pork; the animals are not meant to live long, healthy lives. Especially the GMO and bio-engineered animal feed corn should not be eaten by humans. Pre-Monsanto, I definitely knew what it was to eat both field and sweet corn from local farms. Feed corn, no. Edited to add: I forgot to mention that feed corn can also be coated with fungicides and antibiotics. If you want to eat the stuff, make sure you don't buy any of the pink "seed corn" because that has even more stuff on it. One more danger of going to the co-op to buy animal feed for your children is that there are different rules for storage and rotation of human food v. animal food. The feed corn might be stored in a place where it can get a little moldy, or contaminated by something toxic...not that the people would have a goal of letting it get harmed in these ways, just that the FDA and USDA do not have the same inspections and requirements as for people food. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I said "feed corn," not "field corn." I don't know any kind of corn that doesn't grow in fields, at least not here in the midwest.... Debi Pearl used the term "field corn" to describe what she used for cooking. It is both fed to animals (as Pearl noted in her article) and used for the commercial production of things like corn meal, hominy, grits, tortillas, corn bread, breakfast cereal, corn starch, corn oil, and corn syrup. I share your concerns about herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, antibiotics, mold and GMO's. However, I'm not convinced it was a terribly horrible thing for Pearl to use the field corn to make the same products commercial food manufacturers do. I strongly disagree with the Pearls on some issues and agree with them on others. Their use of field corn when money was tight isn't an issue that particularly upsets me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 ETA: for clarity's sake, I have no interest in defending the Pearls. I do, however, have an interest in defending corn :) Obviously. :) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Patton Oswalt thanks. three episodes of burn notice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea_lpz Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Um, I don't see the big deal with "field corn"--that is just any of the varieties of corn that are left to dry in the field before harvesting, as opposed to sweet corn which is harvested earlier and eaten on the cob, frozen ,etc. Anyone who has ever eaten corn bread, corn tortillas, corn chips, etc. has eaten field corn. Yes, a lot of field corn is used as animal feed. An awful lot is also used as human feed and has been used that way ever since corn was first cultivated. Signed, someone who eats and enjoys field corn prepared in a variety of way ;) More info for those who never lived on a corn farm: http://www.agricultured.org/difference-between-sweet-corn-and-field-corn/ ETA: for clarity's sake, I have no interest in defending the Pearls. I do, however, have an interest in defending corn :) All I know about the pearls is what I have heard on this site---they do blanket training, they recommend spanking 6 month olds and use plumber tubing to spank kids. Enough to know their materials are not for us. The post on what they ate one winter however does not strike me as odd but a quite creative way to go through lean times while still getting in a reasonable amount of nutrients. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 FYI: Gothard (or one of his staff) posted two days ago on his facebook page about a conference he hosted. Comments are interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 FYI: Gothard (or one of his staff) posted two days ago on his facebook page about a conference he hosted. Comments are interesting. Linky? Please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm on phone and don't know how. It's the "Bill Gothard" facebook page. If you type his name into the search bar it should come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 https://m.facebook.com/official.BillGothard/ See if this works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 He's just...so...yucky. The comments about forgiving and moving on, the "thanks" for teaching the truth. Just. YUCK. I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 wow. sigh. anyone else think they (the pearl's, gothard, etc.) spend an awful lot of time thinking about s3x? Yes, I have thought that about many organizations like them. Not healthy at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'd like to see them, or at least the article. I agree that legalism is very dangerous, because it always backfires. You KNOW I'd intentionally carry around that NIV unapologetically (though I prefer another unapproved version, the RSV). ;) Well, good luck with that! I can tell you, it gets VERY tiring, esp. when you're at church about eighty times/week. SUnday morning, Sunday school, Sunday eveningservice, mid-week service, ladie's Bible study, accountability group, AWANA... and of course, if you're carrying the wrong Bible, there are surely dozens of other deep character flaws to be addressed. Mine was not having my children in bed by 8pm. No, I'm not kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 You don't need a farmer's market to buy the ingredients for a tater tot casserole. :) :hurray: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I had a close personal friend in ATI who talked to me about judging other Christians as "carnal." Meaty? Fleshy? The cannibal's view. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I have a visceral reaction to legalism. Recently been verbally abused by a person in the community whose kids are going $125,000 in debt a piece (student loan industry alive and well) to attend Liberty University, and they believe our son going debt free to U of MI is going to die and go straight to hell for attending a secular school. Okay, whatever. But, really, you and your legalistic kind don't actually have any fundamental right to stop me in a doctor's office waiting room and ream me out because you have an unsubstantiated belief to dump all over me. I said as much. I'm done being nice and Jesusy like about this because legalists don't learn. Really. If you are nice and take the abuse, they just keep heaping more abuse because they think they are "winning your soul". You have to assure them you are a lost cause so they will leave you alone. The tater tot casserole comment? Beautiful! :lol: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonM Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I can't read it without subscribing to TPM prime, whatever that is. Can you post it? That said, your quote (which seems to have disappeared since it was inside a quote) sounds pretty biased. I doubt the booklets were "intended" to impart a sense of superiority, even if that is how this reader sees it now. I'd like to read it. I am absolutely sure that the booklets were intended to give just that feeling of superiority. I had a "close friend" growing up ( she was the only other girl my age for miles) who attended these seminars. Her mom started her going and she was always talking about the things she learned. I was the poor dupe that she was trying to convert. She was totally superior to any other Christian because she had these life lessons that taught her so much more that the bible. That's why they could only associate with others just like themselves. (others might poke holes in the perfect life that gothard said they should have). I am so sorry that my friend was so enamored by this group. They make me physically sick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I have a visceral reaction to legalism. Recently been verbally abused by a person in the community whose kids are going $125,000 in debt a piece (student loan industry alive and well) to attend Liberty University, and they believe our son going debt free to U of MI is going to die and go straight to hell for attending a secular school. Okay, whatever. But, really, you and your legalistic kind don't actually have any fundamental right to stop me in a doctor's office waiting room and ream me out because you have an unsubstantiated belief to dump all over me. I said as much. I'm done being nice and Jesusy like about this because legalists don't learn. Really. If you are nice and take the abuse, they just keep heaping more abuse because they think they are "winning your soul". You have to assure them you are a lost cause so they will leave you alone. The tater tot casserole comment? Beautiful! :lol: depending upon the degree and the school, I don't necessarily have a problem with loans. (assuming the funds are used judiciously.) I just had to see what degrees they offer .. . they're touting ASSOCIATE degrees. thunk-thunk. they name a few others, even up to phds - but claim to offer many that are not listed. the focus progressively narrow. for their online degree program - it states CLASSES offered - not degrees offered. I'm not even going to go further with what I think . . . . (other than your legalistic acquaintances must have skipped that part in the NT about putting a light on a candle stick to give light to all in the house, and not hiding under a bushel . . . . ) besides - I send my kids to school to get a marketable education so they can make enough to comfortably support a family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El... Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Wow, that link.... I'd forgotten the triumphant, unverifiable marching-to-the-Kingdom superior tone that is used. How did we ever go for that? I mean, "Somebody important said we rock! Ahem, I mean, God rocks!" "Who said that?" "Can't say, didn't get permission to quote, but somebody important!" It reads like bad advertising on a trashy paperback. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sing it with me now (from Frozen) LET IT GO... LET IT GO!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoHomeschooler Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sing it with me now (from Frozen) LET IT GO... LET IT GO!!!!! Are you taking your own advice here, or admonishing others? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Wow, that link.... I'd forgotten the triumphant, unverifiable marching-to-the-Kingdom superior tone that is used. How did we ever go for that? I mean, "Somebody important said we rock! Ahem, I mean, God rocks!" "Who said that?" "Can't say, didn't get permission to quote, but somebody important!" It reads like bad advertising on a trashy paperback. Like those mattress sale places that can't give you the name of the brand, but if you knew, boy, you'd be impressed! Trust us! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sing it with me now (from Frozen) LET IT GO... LET IT GO!!!!! Do you have some kind of alert set up so you can defend the Duggars every time they are mentioned?? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sing it with me now (from Frozen) LET IT GO... LET IT GO!!!!!*sings Twisted Sister* WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT! NO! WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT! (Adds Twisted Sister to the list of reasons why people think I'm going to hell) 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Do you have some kind of alert set up so you can defend the Duggars every time they are mentioned?? I thought the same thing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 https://m.facebook.com/official.BillGothard/ See if this works. In looking over BG's FB page, I noticed that a new website has been started, Discovering Grace. Here is a quote from the "About us" page: Now, who are we? … It is our wish to do our part in providing support to Bill and his ministry, giving honor to whom honor is due. As a group we remain in active communication with Bill as we seek to deal righteously with issues that are presented to us. A number of us have sat with him on a number of occasions and asked questions that needed to be answered. We have seen him assume full responsibility for issues that we knew had substance and troubled us. We have sought to facilitate the reconciliation process between him and others and will continue to do so. We are theologians, housewives, retired folk, IT and business professionals. We do not report to Bill and it is certain that he will not be happy with all of what we deal with here. … Is it my imagination or is it a little odd to that they chose a name so similar to Recovering Grace? Here is a quote from RG "Our Mission" page: Recovering Grace is an online organization devoted to helping people whose lives have been impacted by the teachings of Bill Gothard, the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP), and the Advanced Training Institute (ATI). Recovering Grace provides a unique perspective in that it was founded and is operated by adults (and their spouses) who were raised as children in Bill Gothard’s Advanced Training Institute. … Some of us had pretty great parents who, by the mercy of God, were able to bring balance to Bill Gothard’s legalism. To this group, survival means that they graduated high school and moved on. However, many of those involved with our site survived physical and/or sexual abuse that causes nightmares and trauma even today. Some survived spiritual abuse at home or training centers that has left them with years of untangling who God is, whether faith is worth having, and whether church and religion are anything more than a cosmic joke. Others have survived emotional abuse, being told that they weren’t good enough, weren’t pretty enough, didn’t look right, or whatever. To these people, survival means a lot more. It means there is a lot of hurt, guilt, and pain that is dealt with every day. Together, we have decided it is time to speak out. Others have done so before in books, magazine articles, and websites. Still, they couldn’t speak from the perspective we can. They wrote about Bill Gothard’s ministry from the outside. We write about it from the inside. They observed our legalism and tried to warn our families. We lived in legalism and wish we’d listened sooner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Eh?! Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.