Farrar Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I really think the Hive needs to discuss the Victorian wannabe people, because... :lol: http://www.vox.com/2015/9/9/9275611/victorian-era-life Also, the best thing I've seen all day is the pun in Slate's headline about it. "Does playing dress-up give you a sense of what the past is like? Of corset doesn't." :laugh: 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The first thing I thought was - they must have a lot of money to spend on period items. The second thought I had was - do they have jobs and what kind of jobs? And the third thought I had was - perhaps this is a stereotype but everything I've heard or read about that timeperiod suggests that they would need some kind of a daily maid to help with all the tasks involved in living in that period because my understanding is that it took immense amounts of time to just do something as simple as the laundry. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 There have been PBS reality shows of this type, although I don't remember the names of them. Fun? Probably. At least in part. Self-centered? Very much so, I can't help thinking.. (I guess the Internet access is via hand-cranked generator?) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 But she has a website. I also wandered what they did for money 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The first thing I thought was - they must have a lot of money to spend on period items. The second thought I had was - do they have jobs and what kind of jobs? And the third thought I had was - perhaps this is a stereotype but everything I've heard or read about that timeperiod suggests that they would need some kind of a daily maid to help with all the tasks involved in living in that period because my understanding is that it took immense amounts of time to just do something as simple as the laundry. Yes, I noticed she never mentioned laundry. And I wonder how long it took her to make their mattress? Honestly, I realize it's a dream of theirs and I shouldn't rain on that...well, I'm just going to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squawky Acres Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yes, I just saw this and wondered how they funded the lifestyle. Over college break, I once visited the country house of a friend's family who tried to live like this in part (on the weekends, while at the country house) -- although they did not dress up. I remember no electricity and sugar coming in cones to be cut with sugar nippers. They had regular city jobs during the week, and came to a low-tech house as a retreat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yes, I noticed she never mentioned laundry. Ha! I know very well how labor-intensive a task laundry is. We went some months without a washing machine, so I was washing everything by hand -- by foot, rather, as I did the "grape stomp" routine in the bathtub -- rinsing all after round one with bar soap and a wash board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yes, I just saw this and wondered how they funded the lifestyle. Over college break, I once visited the country house of a friend's family who tried to live like this in part (on the weekends, while at the country house) -- although they did not dress up. I remember no electricity and sugar coming in cones to be cut with sugar nippers. They had regular city jobs during the week, and came to a low-tech house as a retreat. That actually sounds nice :) Of course, having the money for a second home would be even nicer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 A few questions about their authenticity Do they use whale oil in the lamps? (Maybe this ended before Victorian times.) Do they eat modern foods shipped from far away? Do they use modern contraception? Does she use modern feminine hygiene products? Do they use modern doctors? Dental floss? Vitamins, supplements, prescription drugs? This is a bit bizarre, even for history buffs. Even the Amish allow propane versions of many modern conveniences. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Ha! I know very well how labor-intensive a task laundry is. We went some months without a washing machine, so I was washing everything by hand -- by foot, rather, as I did the "grape stomp" routine in the bathtub -- rinsing all after round one with bar soap and a wash board. Ok, so how long exactly did one regular load take you? It's just her and her husband (from what I could tell) and I only do 2 loads a week for DS and I. 3 loads if I'm washing sheets and towels. (Of course you'd never know it by the mounds of clean clothes that get piled around my room never to be folded until they find their way back into the hamper... :leaving: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Ok, so how long exactly did one regular load take you? It's just her and her husband (from what I could tell) and I only do 2 loads a week for DS and I. 3 loads if I'm washing sheets and towels. (Of course you'd never know it by the mounds of clean clothes that get piled around my room never to be folded until they find their way back into the hamper... :leaving: ) I don't remember. At the time, we were two parents and four children still at home (including three sons in their late teens). The awful loads were sheets, towels, and men's bluejeans. I remember posting somewhere on WTM to enquire if anyone knew where I could buy an affordable mangle to squeeze out the excess water. (the stomping routine quickly lost its entertainment value) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 My niece was really into Victorian times and they had Victorian period pieces in their house. The beds were really really uncomfortable! But pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Contraception and menstruation were also big questions for me. I didn't even think of the laundry. Silly me. I just couldn't get a handle on how much was real and how much wasn't. Like, they got rid of the fridge but what about the hot water heater? The environmental questions are another whole bag of worms. If you burn a bunch of oil, use old fashioned bulbs, and have ice hauled to your house, does that lessen or increase your carbon footprint? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yeah, the old fashioned bulbs would be huge energy hogs I bet. Also, do they mail order them? And would it Victorian if she wasn't giving birth with a pelvis deformed by Rickets? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I've seen blogs where people carried civil war reenactments into most of their modern life. They are homesteaders who also have an internet connection. I've also seen this documentary on YouTube called Time Warp Wives that explores a similar phenomenon, but later decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 My niece was really into Victorian times and they had Victorian period pieces in their house. The beds were really really uncomfortable! But pretty. Quoting myself to say that my niece did have electricity etc. She just liked that era, she was not trying to live in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 We're watching 1900 House right now on Youtube actually. The kids are really into all the House series shows and we've been watching bits of them during lunch. Colonial House is their favorite. I do sort of think you can learn something by playing dress up. But if you don't also do the laundry, then I don't know that you learn much. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yeah, the old fashioned bulbs would be huge energy hogs I bet. Also, do they mail order them? And would it Victorian if she wasn't giving birth with a pelvis deformed by Rickets? The Twitter comments apparently took this direction too. My favorite was something to the effect of, "She'd better not be voting!" 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I've noticed that most people with this sort of lifestyle choose to not have children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Freaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I've noticed that most people with this sort of lifestyle choose to not have children. Then they better be celibate if they want to be authentic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 There are worse things to do with your life. I don't mind some harmless eccentricity. Me too. I dislike the namecalling and abuse. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Then they better be celibate if they want to be authentic. I seriously doubt they're being that authentic. I think both the lifestyle and the sentiment that they don't want children come from fear. Fear that the world is more dangerous now and that it used to be better back in the good old days. I imagine that fear overrides reality in multiple ways. I'm pretty sure that Time Warp Wives video I linked above had a few couples discuss that aspect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Agreed. They are not harming anyone with their lifestyle. It's kooky, but not really something I feel driven to mock. Poking gentle fun ? Sure. I don't think they are freaks. Life would be sooooo boring if we were all cardboard cut outs. I had questions about their choices and lifestyle but that's all it was for me - questions. I always read these things and try to put myself in their place! (Mentally, that is. I have no desire to give up my cushy 21st century life.) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 A few thoughts while reading: Do they work? How? Where? What modern conveniences do they hold on to? Grocery stores, laundry, contraception, these things ran through my mind. I can totally see people calling them freaks, but threatening to kill them? And every time she leaves home she must "constantly be on guard against people who try to paw at and grope" her? I'm having a hard time with that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Victorian era cos-players? Cute! I would not want to do it, but I like electricity. And jeans. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I read about a couple that was super into the 1950s. They're not hurting anything, obviously but I do think it's rather weird. :) ETA link to that story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2702551/Woman-49-lives-like-1950-claims-saved-marriage.html ETA another story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1042702/Time-Warp-Wives-Meet-women-really-live-past.html I try not to interact with the modern world too much at all. Shopping in supermarkets is an ordeal, and I only recently realised that Tony Blair is no longer Prime Minister as I don't read newspapers - they are just too distressing. This article was written in 2008 so it wasn't recently as in now recently that she realized Tony Blair wasn't the Prime Minster. :lol: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Her bio on their website lists her as an author, a licensed massage therapist, and a private tutor. A 2013 NY Times article referred to her husband as a librarian and bike shop manager. So, at least recently, they worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Me too. I dislike the namecalling and abuse. Well, I do sort of think they're "freaks" but in a good way. I mean, "let your freak flag fly" and all that. And if it makes them happy, then awesome. I'm a bit of a freak in some ways. Just not these. I do think there's a critique to be made though. I mean, she's claiming that doing all this is helping her understand the past - in fact, she's writing books about it and making her living partially from this lifestyle. But, as we're pointing out, she's basically playing dress up. She's not subjected to disenfranchisement, health issues from poor diet or disease, and it appears at least that she does still rely on a number of modern conveniences, though she doesn't seem to talk much about those. In fact, she talks about all the pleasures of Victorian life and none of the downsides. The things that seem like they might be downsides - like the lack of electric lights - she plays off as fun pleasures - hey, the light is so warm! But she doesn't mention the things that we're all thinking might be the greatest hardships - laundry, contraception, etc. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yeah, I went browsing on the website and she definitely gives off an odd vibe. It appears she runs a massage studio out of her home and her husband works in a bike shop. And she blogs and sells books and they both try to market themselves for paid appearances. They've certainly gone farther into their "dress-up" than I would care to, but I do agree that it's still "dress-up" without not only fully physically immersing themselves in Victorian ways, but also because without the social context surrounding them, it can never really replicate the life they say they long for. Having said all that, they're not harming anyone that I know of and I have no problem with them. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Do the old tall bikes actually work just as well as modern ones? There's someone who rides one around here. I see it every once in awhile. Always an interesting sight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I wonder if she gives massages while wearing her full Victorian get-up, corset and all? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Freaks. Wow, that's really judgmental. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 On her website she says she uses ivory soap to wash their clothes and has 2 victorian era drying racks. So she at least air dries them. She doesn't say shehand washes the clothes but I wouldnt rule it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 There were washing machines by the 1880s. Given that they're living the life (more or less) of Victorians of means, rather than of impoverished Victorians in tenements (a sensible decision, I suppose), it's not beyond the pale to assume they have one. Or that they engage in that very Victorian custom of sending out the laundry. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Well, I do sort of think they're "freaks" but in a good way. I mean, "let your freak flag fly" and all that. And if it makes them happy, then awesome. I'm a bit of a freak in some ways. Just not these. I do think there's a critique to be made though. I mean, she's claiming that doing all this is helping her understand the past - in fact, she's writing books about it and making her living partially from this lifestyle. But, as we're pointing out, she's basically playing dress up. She's not subjected to disenfranchisement, health issues from poor diet or disease, and it appears at least that she does still rely on a number of modern conveniences, though she doesn't seem to talk much about those. In fact, she talks about all the pleasures of Victorian life and none of the downsides. The things that seem like they might be downsides - like the lack of electric lights - she plays off as fun pleasures - hey, the light is so warm! But she doesn't mention the things that we're all thinking might be the greatest hardships - laundry, contraception, etc. I do agree to a point. But I also agree with whoever (was it you or someone else?) who said that there is something to be learned from dress up. I think the people in the shows on PBS - there was one on living in Victorian times, I remember - learned a lot and while I think they had a whole team of researchers making sure things were as authentic as possible, they didn't have the health issues from poor diet or disease and they knew it was only for a predetermined time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I really think the Hive needs to discuss the Victorian wannabe people, because... :lol: http://www.vox.com/2015/9/9/9275611/victorian-era-life Also, the best thing I've seen all day is the pun in Slate's headline about it. "Does playing dress-up give you a sense of what the past is like? Of corset doesn't." :laugh: I didn't read all the way through to the end, but what I did read could have come from The Onion. I kept waiting for the punch line. (Do y'all think Gabriel is his real name?) Eta I understand they really do this, just something about the way it's written struck me funny. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Well, there were homeschooled.... :lol: :lol: :lol: Wait, they have a website. Something does not chive here. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I think that there's nothing wrong with playing. Adults don't do enough of it. I did find the whole 'watch us use old stuff' funny, however, when some of it I remember from my childhood. Rotary whisk? Yes - we didn't have an electric one. Victorian claw-foot bathtup? Yes, it came with the house. We had a Victorian larder with marble shelves to keep the food cool, although we also had a small fridge - my mother shopped every day. And as for handwashing clothes: we had a twin tub until after I left home, which is only one step from hand washing, and no tumble drier. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 "Some people juggle geese." Wash from Firefly. So they've decided to create a living history museum of their home and lives. OK. (Shrug.)We enjoyed all the House series on PBS too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The first thing I thought was - they must have a lot of money to spend on period items. The second thought I had was - do they have jobs and what kind of jobs? And the third thought I had was - perhaps this is a stereotype but everything I've heard or read about that timeperiod suggests that they would need some kind of a daily maid to help with all the tasks involved in living in that period because my understanding is that it took immense amounts of time to just do something as simple as the laundry. Not to mention to button up a lady's dress. Women could not divest themselves of their own clothing - they needed a lady's maid to help them out of it. But maybe a husband will do... It appears, they are living off the proceeds from her books and presentations. But I do wonder if she hand wrote the manuscripts or typed them on a Victorian typewriter or used a laptop? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 We had a Victorian larder with marble shelves to keep the food cool, I want one of these. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobeatenpath Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The things I find icky about this and her blog are a) the implications that they are somehow superior because they overcame the bullies and expectations to live their dream. This is why more people don't follow their dreams: They know the world is a cruel place for anyone who doesn't fit into the dominant culture. Most people fear the bullies so much that they knuckle under simply to be left alone. In the process, they crush their own dream That's great, but not everyone can afford to have a life of a house full of antiques, spending your days reading and riding bicycles (he at least comes from a rich family,not sure about her). b) the 'I am embracing Victorian ideals because they are better'. Of course there were a broad range of ideals in that era - suffragettes, socialism, radicalism, the arts & crafts movement - but what this seems to be is 'I long for a day when rich people could lead a life of leisure and have nice things and people knew their place'. She talks about fear of the modern world despite claiming she wishes to claim the Victorian sense of optimism (which was about modernity and the modern world...). And lets not start on the rampant classism and imperialism implied by the social strata they are choosing to emulate ... c) people touching her or threatening her are gross. But she is making a spectacle of herself (and hey, I am all for that - do it myself sometimes) then complaining people look at her. She makes her living out of being strange (as in different to other people), cultivates it, but does not like people to react to it unless it is exactly how she wants people to react. d) the whole 'we are so authentic'/ "Everything in our daily life is connected to our period of study, from the technologies we use to the ways we interact with the world." thing is a crock. How do you keep a blog and a huge social media presence? e) the whole idea that the Victorians surrounded themselves with beautiful, well made items they took the time and effort to repair. Most Victorians (even the upper classes) were happy to embrace the new manufactured goods, and would often replace stuff if it broke. They also had lots of crap - just the stuff that has mostly remained to our age is the nice stuff :lol: Perhaps if they were emulating the Arts and Crafts movement members I would be more with her claims of 'They help us understand the culture that created them — a culture that believed in engineering durable, beautiful items that could be repaired by their users', but they're not. I have no problem with people dressing how they want, living how they want, being super different that societal norms. I do have a problem with acting as though anyone could do this and frankly they are a bit inferior if they don't follow their dreams (rather than acknowledging that many people CAN'T follow their dreams). I have a problem with the claims of authenticity when they are not authentic. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 e) the whole idea that the Victorians surrounded themselves with beautiful, well made items they took the time and effort to repair. Most Victorians (even the upper classes) were happy to embrace the new manufactured goods, and would often replace stuff if it broke. They also had lots of crap - just the stuff that has mostly remained to our age is the nice stuff :lol: Perhaps if they were emulating the Arts and Crafts movement members I would be more with her claims of 'They help us understand the culture that created them — a culture that believed in engineering durable, beautiful items that could be repaired by their users', but they're not. The use of aniline dyes is an example: when the new chemical dyes came in, the clothing went from subdued 'Laura Ashley' colours to really, really garish. It wasn't always a good look and it's one that she doesn't seem to be modelling, except in one example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 How authentic can their lifestyle be to the Victorian period if she has a website and does massage? No computers and ladies didn't massage strangers back in the old days. Also, I have watched the 1900 House shows a few times - does she really do their laundry in a boiler etc? Or do they have a servant doing it... They aren't hurting anyone, but I think they are making living the Victorian life look too easy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 How did I miss that they were homeschooled! Of course! I agree that she seems to want to have it both ways in terms of being a spectacle. Look at me I'm doing something really out there and different! Hey, stop looking at me like that! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I admire them for really sticking to it as much as they can. That stuff is hard! Our house is from around the 1830s, although thankfully remodeled to have indoor plumbing. But we do heat with wood via outdoor furnace, and it takes work to collect, haul, chop, and feed, every day in the winter and sometimes twice on the coldest days, trekking through snow and across ice. It's not an easy choice. We also lived without a dishwasher for a good five years, hand washing seven people's plates, cups, etc. three times a day, every day. To do all of that, and more, voluntarily, is impressive. I think it's definitely easier to choose to do those things when you don't have small children. I also agree that they aren't living with the same social expectations and situations that were common in those times. I do think it's kind of a fun experiment, although not my cup of tea (and my idea of historic living, as I have mentioned before, is a wee bit older than Victorian times). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink and Green Mom Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'm reminded of a time in my childhood when I pretended to be Laura Ingalls. Except when it interfered with trips to the roller rink and McDonalds. :lol: 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excelsior! Academy Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 -SNIP- They aren't hurting anyone, but I think they are making living the Victorian life look too easy. Yes! You can't pick and choose with immersion. You've got to take the good with the bad. That said, to each their own. It's a pretty harmless way to pass the time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobeatenpath Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Actually, I don't think it is 100 percent harmless. The personal is political, and they are actively choosing to turn away from a modern, progressive society and not just choose to live but actively promote a set of social mores that are to some of us repellent - the whole deferring to husbands, white privilege, financial privilege - and wrap it up in some kind of 'we are rebels and better than those who can't look past social norms' idea. Oh, and 'modern progressive times are awful so I am going to turn back the clock'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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