stormy weather Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 This got kind of long. :001_smile: Some of you may be able to guess the name of the organization from my description but I would rather not mention the name here in case of searches. Thanks. Kid A(14) and kid B(12) joined an organization this last year that involves monthly meetings, several community service projects, doing some work to earn money for the organization and just generally helping with events and an individual end of year project. Kid A and B willingly and cheerfully did all of of those things throughout the year but kid B did not complete the end of year project. After the end of year project was over a local business put on a pizza party for the kids in the organization. Both kid A and B attended the party and it was announced as a surprise to everyone(including the coordinator of the organization) that the manager of the business would like to meet all the kids in the organization and give them all a $25 gift card from the business. Both kids went through the line to meet the manager and kid B told the manager that they had not completed the final project but was still offered the card and accepted it with thanks. Fast forward 3 weeks and the coordinator of the organization calls me to say that she was very disappointed that kid B had joined in the line to meet the manager and had accepted the card since they had not completed the final project. I then asked the coordinator what she would like to see done. Coordinator said she would leave it up to me. I am unsure if the manager of the business was upset or it was only the coordinator. I do plan on calling the business manager and asking what the intention for the gift cards was, only for those who completed projects or all the members of the organization? Was kid B supposed to know they were supposed to refuse even though it was not clear to even the adults whether the cards were only for those who completed projects?(and still isn't) WWYD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post zoobie Posted September 7, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2015 Kid B was upfront with the giver of the gift. The giver could have told Kid to keep working hard and maybe he'd get one next year. The burden was on the giver, not the child at that point. Plus it's $25, not a gold brick. 53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I would have explained to the coordinator that your child had told the business owner that he had not completed the project and was still offered the card. Then, honestly, I would forget about it. At this point unless the coordinator brought it up again, I would forget about it. I don't think you or the children did anything wrong. 36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 If kid B was honest about his unfinished project at the time the cards were handed out, and the manager still offered one, I would let him keep it. And have the kids write thank you notes. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel Mertz Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 1. From what I can understand, it was an end of year party for all the kids. 2. The manager said he wanted to meet all of the kids. 3. Kid B admitted to the manager that he hadn't finished the project and the manager gave him the card anyway. 4. Unless it was announced that the manager only wanted to meet kids who had finished the project, your kid shouldn't have been expected not to join the line. 5. Why did the adult leader wait 3 weeks to bring this up? 6. I'd have the kids write thank you notes and leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I'd make sure the coordinator backed off. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Kid B was upfront with the giver of the gift. The giver could have told Kid to keep working hard and maybe he'd get one next year. The burden was on the giver, not the child at that point. Plus it's $25, not a gold brick. This. :iagree: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I'm guessing the coordinator is upset because she lost her "carrot". She wanted to use that prize as incentive to entice kids in the future to complete their projects. She can't do that if Kid B, and perhaps others, get the prize anyway. She should have worked this out with the manager in advance, but she didn't. She'll have to come up with a different strategy next year, perhaps one that isn't anchored in external reward. The manager apparently wanted to encourage the kids and thank them for their involvement. He didn't mean for the card to be a reward, but a gift. It was his gift to give, and he chose to give it to everyone in the group. Kid B should receive his gift with his conscience clear. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarinesWife Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Ditto everyone else. And praises to your child who even told the business that he hadn't finished! 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambam Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think Kid B deserves his card. He was honest about not completing his project. Nothing was stated that a project had to be completed to receive the card. He is fine. Coordinator is out of line. Personally, I'd keep a close eye on this person. Three weeks after the fact, she (?) calls up and acts like Kid B shouldn't have received the gift card she knew nothing about, didn't pay for, and didn't give? Huh? What was she thinking? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I would tell the coordinator that your child joined the line because manager wanted to meet everyone. Your child was honest about status of final project. Manager gave gift card to child. Then I would be asking why the coordinator was questioning me about this 3 weeks after the fact and why it was an issue 3 weeks later. I would let my child keep the gift card. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Your child should be commended for his honesty in telling the business owner he/she did not finish the project. The owner was probably impressed with that as well. I'd encourage my kid to finish the project next year, but otherwise I'd say nothing. I would, however, call the coordinator back and say "As I think more about this, I'm wondering why this is an issue at this late date when the my child was up-front about not completing the project. Who is now complaining about it? What is driving the concern now?" If the coordinator continued to press the issue--and especially if he/she approached my child with it--then I'd ramp things up. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RioSamba Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The coordinator sounds controlling. Kid B should keep and enjoy his *gift* with a clear conscience. I would politely, but firmly, tell coordinator that manager gave the gift with full knowledge of Kid B's unfinished project, and that I would be very rude indeed to interfere. The implication, of course, is that coordinator would also be rude to interfere. If you can raise one eyebrow, this would be a great time to deploy it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I'd consider the coordinator an idiot and not give the issue any more thought whatsoever. Plus I'd commend myself on raising an honest kid: at risk that he would not get $25 of pizza, he still specifically disclosed (without being asked) a reason he might not be entitled to receive it. That's admirable for both of you... But I'm sure you noticed that 3 weeks ago. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFG Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I will go even further and say that even if Kid B did not "confess" to not completing the final project, he had every right to get the gift card. The manager gave the cards for his own reasons, to drum up repeat business and create good will in the community. None of that would be accomplished by playing the "enforcer" for another organization's rules. It was a participation award. Coordinator is controlling. I also would not have appreciated the passive-aggressive "do what you think best" comment. Continued participation by the coordinator might cause me to reconsider my family's particapation in future years. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Agreeing with others. The card was a gift, your child had the integrity to be honest and was still given a gift. I think your dc should keep it. Your dc was not trying to be deceitful. Sounds like the store manager was just happy to see that the kids were involved in a good program that he/she supports and wanted to reward their effort. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I agree the kid gets to keep it. Otherwise, the kids who participated in the project are getting "paid" for their work. To me , this violates the idea behind a volunteer community service organization, and it might possibly violate the IRS regulations for a non-profit organization. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormy weather Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 Thanks all. I was taken aback that she was so upset that she decided to call after so much time had passed. I have had a nagging feeling about this person since I first met her at the beginning of the year and every encounter I've had with her has left me with a bad taste in my mouth and the tone of the newsletters for the organization is very threatening. I wasn't sure if my own feelings about her were clouding the issue. Thankfully the contact we have with the coordinator is only occasional because kid A really loves participating in the organization. I think I will be asking her by email ;) whether the purpose of the organization is the final project or if the organization is about youth development like it says it is. Thanks for the head check :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachermom2834 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I wouldn't be surprised if some other patent complained or mentioned it and then the two got to talking and got the coordinator more ramped up than she was 3 weeks ago. I have seen things go that way. I am a stickler for rules, honesty, etc. And your kid is fine to keep the card. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Don't email her! She won't change, starting anything with her just adds to your distaste and makes you into a trouble maker in her eyes (which will extend to your kids). It won't be a dialogue. It will just be infuriating. Just carry on knowing that your kids are using the organization right (for development) in spite of her misguided views. Are you perhaps feeling defensive or embarrassed that you didn't make sure he finished the project? Or that he isn't right now "the kind of kid" that finished it? Let it go. He's good. You're good. Don't let her get in your head. By the way, her answer would just be, "of course the goal is development! <fake smile> Finishing the final project develops responsibility, accountability, hard work, and other pointy words that imply that your son isn't up to snuff because of his incomplete project. It's really the cornerstone of everything that we are trying to accomplish [and you and your son are clearly failures in these areas. Have fun raising your future deadbeat unless you get with the program.]" See. No point in emailing. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormy weather Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 Thanks bolt. You've given me something to consider.Maybe I am defensive because I don't share her philosophy on project finishing. :P I do think that's probably what her reaction would be....but one thing gives me pause and makes me consider making a bit of a stink with her and those above her is that she is not a volunteer for the organization she's an employee. Her job is to coordinate and facilitate for the kids in the organization. :sad: If it weren't for my kids enjoying it so much I would just say WTFever :seeya: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The coordinator is way out of line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I didn't read all the replies, but I'd first call the coordinator back and clarify whether she were the only one upset or if the business manager actually spoke with her about it to express his disappointment. If it were just her, I'd likely do nothing. Maybe with the start of this year's activity, tell both kids that a perk can only be accepted if the final project is finished. If the business manager was the one who said something, I might mail back the gift card with a not-impolite but short note stating you're sorry for the misunderstanding (the purpose of this being to let the guy know *you* know he was snarky about it). Then tell your kid you are trading him out for a gift card to a different place, since your family doesn't need two gift cards to the same place. The kid shouldn't suffer for an adult's insensitivity. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Maybe Kid B shouldn't have jumped in line, but it was an honest mistake an adult might have mad. I'd be proud of his honesty and pleased with the business owner for being so gracious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I would really steer clear of this person. I had a HORRIBLE experience with a passive agressive jerk who tried to keep my ds from being an Eagle Scout and used his job with the council to do it. He didn't win, but probably only because a LOT of people in the community knew me through church work and it became aparent that if it were my word against his he would not win. I do believe in my case that the trouble maker in my case had a very nasty motive and was trying to get my ds to do something disgusting. It took me a long time to figure it out but facebook and other social media gave me the clues over time. For a long time I kept thinking we would figure this out, it was a misunderstanding... ect. So, beware if people in an organization for children who enjoy wielding power. That is my experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 So, beware if people in an organization for children who enjoy wielding power. That is my experience.Sadly, yes to this, when it is used to out roadblocks in a youth's progress. I love leaders who use their "power" to encourage and properly empower those in their sphere of influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Not that it would change my opinion of the matter (I agree with everyone else about the matter of the gift card), but curious: This final project--was it a community service project, or more of a personal enrichment type thing? The way I'm reading it, Kid B participated throughout the year in community service projects, raising money for the organization, etc. Business Owner threw a party and rewarded the kids for their community service, correct? So why would Kid B *not* be deserving of the gift card in the first place, since he did in fact do all those things? How much did the final project tie into why they were being rewarded with party/gift cards, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormy weather Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 I'm giving an update for those that are interested :001_smile: I did end up contacting the business manger and thanking him for the party and all the fun stuff he did for the kids and then asked him what his intention for the cards was and he said pretty much what I expected. The cards were for all the kids and he went so far as to tell me he gave cards to kids who weren't able to finish the final project and kids who were not in the organization but helped out in some way or were sibling of kids who were and happened to be at the party! He said there had been a lot of confusion about the subject and I got the impression that maybe we weren't the only family that the coordinator called to chide/shame. :eek: I'm still unsure whether I'm going to complain, if I do I will go over the coordinator to her supervisor. To add more aggravation it's unclear who her direct supervisor even is. I did give my kids warning though that if we have any other weirdness from this lady we will be pulling out of this activity even if that means quitting in the middle of the year. After both kids and I got to talking about some of the things that I felt were bad juju from this lady Kid B told me of some other dismissive and shaming kind of things that she had had said/done that they hadn't told me before. :cursing: As an introvert this just confirms why I never join clubs or such. There's always that ONE person :001_rolleyes: 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I did give my kids warning though that if we have any other weirdness from this lady we will be pulling out of this activity even if that means quitting in the middle of the year. After both kids and I got to talking about some of the things that I felt were bad juju from this lady Kid B told me of some other dismissive and shaming kind of things that she had had said/done that they hadn't told me before. :cursing: As an introvert this just confirms why I never join clubs or such. There's always that ONE person :001_rolleyes: Just a thought... we have stayed in a group with "that one person" because we really enjoyed the group and the activity and because talking between me and DD, we were able to handle it. DD was old enough to blow off that person and enjoy the group still. I intervene when necessary. I agree if it's bad enough you should leave, but you're right there is always one, and you don't want to let that always keep you or your kids from having a good time. It's a good skill to learn to blow somebody off. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 He said there had been a lot of confusion about the subject and I got the impression that maybe we weren't the only family that the coordinator called to chide/shame. :eek: How sad that this woman has soured the experience not just for the kids, but for this manager as well. He was trying to create a positive experience for a bunch of big hearted kids, and she turned it into something negative and bitter. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Go up a level, don't quit. She aggravated you, other moms, AND the business owner, and now you are talking of quitting!! I am on the board of 3 nonprofits. I would always, always, always want to know about a nasty volunteer who is making people want to turn away. Always. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Go up a level, don't quit. She aggravated you, other moms, AND the business owner, and now you are talking of quitting!! I am on the board of 3 nonprofits. I would always, always, always want to know about a nasty volunteer who is making people want to turn away. Always. This. The supervisor can't fix it unless they know about it. Don't let the whole organization, which was doing good things with lots of kids, fall apart because of one person. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormy weather Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Go up a level, don't quit. She aggravated you, other moms, AND the business owner, and now you are talking of quitting!! I am on the board of 3 nonprofits. I would always, always, always want to know about a nasty volunteer who is making people want to turn away. Always. She's employed by the organization/county. I'm trying to find out who her supervisor even is, no one seems to know. As I said I'm undecided. A lot of the people within the organization are people who went to school together, are related etc. since we live in a small small town in a rural county. I live only a few miles from her, our parents went to school together and her brother was in my sister's graduating class. When I stir up a fuss it will stay stirred :tongue_smilie: There is still some lingering bad feeling from the year before we joined about something(not related to the organizer). My hesitation is that this lady is not going to get replaced and she make herself a thorn in our flesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 She's employed by the organization/county. I'm trying to find out who her supervisor even is, no one seems to know. As I said I'm undecided. A lot of the people within the organization are people who went to school together, are related etc. since we live in a small small town in a rural county. I live only a few miles from her, our parents went to school together and her brother was in my sister's graduating class. When I stir up a fuss it will stay stirred :tongue_smilie: There is still some lingering bad feeling from the year before we joined about something(not related to the organizer). My hesitation is that this lady is not going to get replaced and she make herself a thorn in our flesh. Not sure what club you are having trouble with, but I will pretend your situation happened in a 4-H club and tell you how it works in NH 4-H. There is a county extension agent (called a specialist now) who works for the state Cooperative Extension. The county agent works out of a county office - and their supervisors work at the state office which is located at the state university (so UNH in NH, UVM in VT, etc.). If someone were to have trouble with a club leader they would go to the county agent who would make a note of it to go in the leaders' file. The agent would not come right out and speak to the leader about this particular situation unless either 1) you okayed it, or 2) they had more than one complaint. They don't want to "out" people who come forward with problems, to avoid the scenario you are worried about. If you were to have trouble with a county agent you would need to contact the supervisor at the state Cooperative Extension office, and the same rules would apply. Those notes are super-important when they show a pattern of problems and/or when job performance reviews come up. We've had more than one leader leave (get fired or quit) over multiple problems recorded in their files. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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