What would you do if your 4 year old...

[ThursdayNext]

If your 4 year old ripped the stuffing out of a chair?

 

Background if you want it:

My daughter prepped me when she found out. "It's a huge mess, you won't believe it, you'll be really mad." So I did not yell.

 

The chair is in the boys room and we have had it for 5 years. No money to replace it, and I'm thinking it will not be the same after we try to repair it. No known holes in the chair.

 

The 4 year old is very gifted in some areas, but lacking is social and emotional skills. He shows no remorse for the chair destruction. He is improving in behavior, social skills, etc. At 2 and 3 I was sure I would send him away to preschool so I did not kill him. Much better now, but I don't know what the right consequences are when he does things like this.

[Mergath]

A four year old? I would explain to him that he ruined the chair and probably make him help clean up the stuffing, but that's it. 

[JustEm]

A four year old? I would explain to him that he ruined the chair and probably make him help clean up the stuffing, but that's it.

This is exactly what I would do

[redsquirrel]

My friend's kid did that.  She just cleaned it and they didn't have a couch for a while.  I should add it was a whole couch and not a chair.

 

He is a perfectly fine teenager these days, lol. But man, he was hell on wheels as a little one.

[SporkUK]

My girls did that to a chair in their room (plus filled the hole with a bunch of stuff) when M was 4 and A was 6ish. It was the chair A had been born on so I was a bit heartbroke at the sight of it. My partner helped them clear the whole thing our of toys, watch him fix the springs they had forced out of position to do that and other repair work. After a long discussion it was left with the promise that if anything else happened to that chair then they wouldn't have any chairs in their room for a while. It's not the same but its better than I thought it would be when I first saw it. 

[MiMi 4under3]

Clean up the mess and tell him gently that we don't rip stuffing out of chairs.

[kristi26]

At that age, I'd have him help me clean it up and move it out of the room. I'd explain that we don't do that to chairs. I'd also probably give a time out of four minutes.

[ThursdayNext]

Well, he helped me clean it up. I asked him if he would do that again, and he said "I don't know" which means I will if I ever feel like it again.

Then he asked me if I would remember this for a long time. I said probably. He said, "I won't. I will forget it tomorrow."

Frustrating.

[AimeeM]

A four year old? I would explain to him that he ruined the chair and probably make him help clean up the stuffing, but that's it. 

What she said :)

In my humble opinion, I do not put anything in the boys' bedroom that I don't except to get ruined on some level - they are 3 and 6. They have no concept of money or value, really.

[Loowit]

I was thinking help clean it up and call it good, but with your last post and the lack of remorse I think I might be removing things from his room that aren't necessary for a while until he can learn to take better care of his stuff.

[Tanaqui]

Probably scream. A lot.

 

That's not what you should do, but it's probably what I would do.

 

What you *should* do is try not to make a bigger deal out of this than needs to be. So he ruined a chair. He's four. He doesn't know the monetary value of things like chairs, and he certainly doesn't know if there's any emotional value to that chair. He wasn't doing it to hurt you, he was just... being four.

 

Then he asked me if I would remember this for a long time. I said probably. He said, "I won't. I will forget it tomorrow."

 

My oldest was like this at four. Still is, frankly, especially when she's actually very upset or stressed or tired or hungry or recognizes that she did something incredibly stupid.

 

It's annoying, because when she says things like this you just want to smack her, but really, what good would that do? Just make things worse.

 

There's actually a name for this, it's called "sanction-seeking behavior". I don't know about your kid, but if he's like mine, when he pushes your buttons after getting in trouble, he knows exactly what he's doing. It's not because he's really going to forget it tomorrow (well, you know that!), it's because he's upset and embarrassed and hopes that if he annoys you enough you'll talk about something else. Even talking about what a rude brat he is means he has won the conversation, because he got to decide what you're talking about. Better yet, you might send him to his room while you cool down, which means that he doesn't have to talk about the chair ever!

 

Paradoxically, I find the best way to deal with this is not to hammer the subject more, which just feeds into the building power play, but to drop it. He didn't know better before he did it, he knows better now, better to end before you get dragged into a fight with a child.

 

(This is easier said than done. I'm just glad it's older kiddo who's like this and not younger one. Younger one is practically easy by comparison!)

 

I was thinking help clean it up and call it good, but with your last post and the lack of remorse I think I might be removing things from his room that aren't necessary for a while until he can learn to take better care of his stuff.

 

If he's like my kid, this is exactly the wrong approach.

 

Yes, the OP should remove anything that she doesn't care to see destroyed. Not because he lacks remorse and can't be trusted, but because he's four. Even if he behaves like an angel at all times, he's going to break things.

 

However, if he's like mine, the most likely scenario is this: Mom starts taking out unnecessary items, explaining why. Kid says "Fine, I don't want that GARBAGE anyway!" and starts throwing out EVERYTHING from his room (possibly into the trash) until there is nothing left that he is capable of moving. At this point, he may attempt to take apart the bed or dresser to get rid of it anyway. There is a big fight. Eventually, kid calms down, Mom feels awful, and nothing is really achieved.

 

Alternative scenario: Mom starts taking out unnecessary items, explaining why. Kid says "Fine, do whatever you like", mom does, kid continues to treat remaining items the same way because, after all, Mom won't do anything about *those*.

 

Alternative scenario 2: Mom starts taking out unnecessary items, explaining why. Kid says "Fine", sulks for a while, refuses to play with any toys or read any books that were removed from room. Mom tries to remedy this, kid gets sulkier, Mom feels bad and either returns items (kid wins!) or doesn't and the items never go back in the room (kid outgrows them, and six years later everybody laughs at how stubborn the kid is, but honestly, the message could've been learned without the bad feelings on all sides).

 

Sometimes it is better to just let these things go.

 

[Spryte]

Tanaqui, do you have my kid?  How did you nail that so completely?

 

 

[Bensmom]

Dh did something like this as a child. His mom packed up all his stuff...he was left with a mattress on the floor and a blanket. He had to earn his stuff back one thing at a time with acts of kindness and demonstrating responsible behavior.

He is 40....it was a lesson he never forgot.

[QueenCat]

A four year old? I would explain to him that he ruined the chair and probably make him help clean up the stuffing, but that's it. 

 

This........... it would be a different picture with an older child.

[Tanaqui]

Tanaqui, do you have my kid?  How did you nail that so completely?

 

12 years of this. She gets better every year, but we still have our little moments. Had one last night, but I won't give the details, as she may not appreciate it and I have a "screen all embarrassing stories before sharing them" rule.

[PrincessMommy]

Agreeing with others to clean it up and try to help him understand it's not the right way to act.  :grouphug:  '

 

But, I also wanted to say I love your screen name!   Love those books.

[Guest]

I'd probably be holding in screams of frustration at the mess.

 

Then leave the room for a mommy time out.

 

Then come back, take a deep breath, and explain to my kid why that was inappropriate and destructive.

 

Next, he'd be helping me restuff it, and watch for the time it took me to sew the hole back up.

 

If the kid was expressing absolutely zero remorse I'd work on explaining why that bugged *me* rather than trying to make him feel something he doesn't. Empathy is really important.

 

 

 

And then I'd let it go and laugh about it in a few years.

 

But my first response? Probably freaking out. I don't handle destructive surprises very well.

[AimeeM]

I was thinking help clean it up and call it good, but with your last post and the lack of remorse I think I might be removing things from his room that aren't necessary for a while until he can learn to take better care of his stuff.

A lack of remorse is completely age appropriate for a 4 year old, when considering it's unlikely he had any sort of emotional ties to the destroyed object. 

[Loowit]

A lack of remorse is completely age appropriate for a 4 year old, when considering it's unlikely he had any sort of emotional ties to the destroyed object. 

 

It may be completely age appropriate response.  It has been a while since I had a 4 year old around, however, I wouldn't leave things that I didn't want destroyed around a child that was likely to destroy it.  Removing it would be to protect the object, not as a punishment of the child.

[AimeeM]

It may be completely age appropriate response.  It has been a while since I had a 4 year old around, however, I wouldn't leave things that I didn't want destroyed around a child that was likely to destroy it.  Removing it would be to protect the object, not as a punishment of the child.

That's sort of taking what I said earlier (RE not putting things in a child's room that I value) out of context, lol.

 

My 3 year old is not likely damage toys that he loves - things that he values. Taking those away, because he didn't show remorse over damaging a chair that *I* value is a bit over-the-top, imo, because a 4 year old simply doesn't value things the way I do. Four year olds have almost no impulse control, do not understand monetary value of things, and do not understand sentimental value of things that aren't directly linked to them. They are naturally pretty self-centered, and that isn't something that isn't something that you can forcibly punish out of a child - it's an age appropriate "place" to be and things like conceptual understanding of monetary and sentimental value, empathy, compassion, and impulse control will develop naturally (assuming the child's environment is a happy, stable, safe one) as the child ages. 

 

I rattled on, but in a nutshell I simply do not think one should blow this out of proportion. Kid is 4; four year olds aren't known for the care they take in doing things (good or bad), their fabulous impulse control, or their ability to understand what their family can, and cannot, afford to replace (or buy in general). 

[Julie Smith]

I'm snickering over here. You reminded me of a incident. 

 

This happened before kids. My brother and his wife came for a visit and brought their dog. Us women went out for awhile. When I got home I found stuffing all over the place and a giant hole in the back of a lazy boy style chair. I asked Dh about it. He said, "Oh I was wondering where all the stuffing was coming from". Turns out the two men where so busy playing a computer game they didn't bother investigating. 

 

 

[kroe1]

DS35 and a homeschool friend, when they were about 5, dissected my sofa, pulled as much out as they could, and then attempted to sew it all back up. Interestingly, both boys became physicians. I do think I yelled, though, and it did not curb their desire to sew stuff back up. LOL.

[Carrie12345]

Thank you for this thread.

 

Love,

Mom of a 4yo. who has unstuffed half the couch before, and squished 2 sticks of butter this afternoon

[Peaceful Isle]

My four year old does things all the time, without thinking! He just does stuff on a whim, without rhyme or reason. :)

 

I would probably get very stern with him and make him help me clean it up. I would talk to him about treating the household things nicer, and make him sit on his bed and think about it for a while. Then I would make him apologize for what he did. 

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

A lack of remorse is completely age appropriate for a 4 year old, when considering it's unlikely he had any sort of emotional ties to the destroyed object.

Depends on the kid though. My oldest might be like that but my youngest is devastated when he wreck something. He was so upset when we had a bonfire and burned some old furniture that wasn't reparable.

[torikei]

My four year old cut a very long slash in the sofa--because her feet were cold and this let her stick her feet in.  For years afterwards we made her recite a long monologue about appropriate use of scissors.  She's an awesome kid--a leader on her gymnastics team and very well behaved.   :D  :D

[EKS]

Here is what I would do... and I realize that it is not the PC response.

 

I would yell.  A lot.  Because I would be angry.  

 

What a concept.

 

I don't think we do our children any favors when we downplay the emotional results of their actions.

 

It *is* a big deal to ruin a chair.  A 4yo is not going to understand the enormity of it if you say in a very calm voice:

 

"4yo, I am very upset about this."

 

OF COURSE he is not going to remember it!

 

You have to *show* him that you're upset.

 

It won't kill him.  It won't scar him for life.

 

You asked what I would do.  That is what I would do.

[Mergath]

Here is what I would do... and I realize that it is not the PC response.

 

I would yell. A lot. Because I would be angry.

 

What a concept.

 

I don't think we do our children any favors when we downplay the emotional results of their actions.

 

It *is* a big deal to ruin a chair. A 4yo is not going to understand the enormity of it if you say in a very calm voice:

 

"4yo, I am very upset about this."

 

OF COURSE he is not going to remember it!

 

You have to *show* him that you're upset.

 

It won't kill him. It won't scar him for life.

 

You asked what I would do. That is what I would do.

Kids aren't idiots. I think a four year old will realize mom is upset without her yelling and freaking out. I've never yelled much because it's just not my thing, not because I'm some kind of saint, and dd still knows when I'm upset.

[EKS]

Kids aren't idiots. I think a four year old will realize mom is upset without her yelling and freaking out. I've never yelled much because it's just not my thing, not because I'm some kind of saint, and dd still knows when I'm upset.

 

As I said, the OP asked what I would do, and that's what I would have done.

 

Amazingly, my kids have turned out ok.  

[Mergath]

As I said, the OP asked what I would do, and that's what I would have done.

 

Amazingly, my kids have turned out ok.

Yes, but you make it sound like anyone not yelling must be doing the Ma Duggar Happy Whisper, and that's not the case.

[MedicMom]

12 years of this. She gets better every year, but we still have our little moments. Had one last night, but I won't give the details, as she may not appreciate it and I have a "screen all embarrassing stories before sharing them" rule.

They don't grow out of this????

 

......

 

There goes my last piece of hope.

[madteaparty]

I'd be mad and put her in time out but that would be the extent of it. Frankly I know we are supposed to teach boundaries and such but this is why I don't have nice stuff. My 4 year old also draws on walls and such. My house sports the lived-in look.

[Guest]

Well, he helped me clean it up. I asked him if he would do that again, and he said "I don't know" which means I will if I ever feel like it again.

Then he asked me if I would remember this for a long time. I said probably. He said, "I won't. I will forget it tomorrow."

Frustrating.

Just a little BTDT for you: one of my children was like this at four. I was quite fearful that there was something seriously wrong. No remorse. Could destroy things and behave like - *shrug*. The child grew out of it. And I was one who thought that phrase - "they grow out of it" - was a cop-out. It wasn't. The child was simply slow to develop empathy and a good understanding of social expectations.

[EKS]

Yes, but you make it sound like anyone not yelling must be doing the Ma Duggar Happy Whisper, and that's not the case.

 

I did that for effect to show how it might be perceived by a 4yo who is impervious to that sort of thing.  

[Tanaqui]

They don't grow out of this????

 

......

 

There goes my last piece of hope.

 

Out of deliberately pushing buttons? Well, these incidents are getting fewer in number every year, with more time in between them. And she's more likely to stop herself, too, and to apologize afterwards. Also, more and more the trigger is obvious - they happen at bedtime or before mealtimes or after something really stressful has happened, and not just seemingly randomly.

 

So yes, they do grow out of this... just not as fast as you probably hoped.

 

[8circles]

 

Probably scream. A lot.

 

That's not what you should do, but it's probably what I would do.

 

What you *should* do is try not to make a bigger deal out of this than needs to be. So he ruined a chair. He's four. He doesn't know the monetary value of things like chairs, and he certainly doesn't know if there's any emotional value to that chair. He wasn't doing it to hurt you, he was just... being four.

 

 

My oldest was like this at four. Still is, frankly, especially when she's actually very upset or stressed or tired or hungry or recognizes that she did something incredibly stupid.

 

It's annoying, because when she says things like this you just want to smack her, but really, what good would that do? Just make things worse.

 

There's actually a name for this, it's called "sanction-seeking behavior". I don't know about your kid, but if he's like mine, when he pushes your buttons after getting in trouble, he knows exactly what he's doing. It's not because he's really going to forget it tomorrow (well, you know that!), it's because he's upset and embarrassed and hopes that if he annoys you enough you'll talk about something else. Even talking about what a rude brat he is means he has won the conversation, because he got to decide what you're talking about. Better yet, you might send him to his room while you cool down, which means that he doesn't have to talk about the chair ever!

 

Paradoxically, I find the best way to deal with this is not to hammer the subject more, which just feeds into the building power play, but to drop it. He didn't know better before he did it, he knows better now, better to end before you get dragged into a fight with a child.

 

(This is easier said than done. I'm just glad it's older kiddo who's like this and not younger one. Younger one is practically easy by comparison!)

 

 

If he's like my kid, this is exactly the wrong approach.

 

Yes, the OP should remove anything that she doesn't care to see destroyed. Not because he lacks remorse and can't be trusted, but because he's four. Even if he behaves like an angel at all times, he's going to break things.

 

However, if he's like mine, the most likely scenario is this: Mom starts taking out unnecessary items, explaining why. Kid says "Fine, I don't want that GARBAGE anyway!" and starts throwing out EVERYTHING from his room (possibly into the trash) until there is nothing left that he is capable of moving. At this point, he may attempt to take apart the bed or dresser to get rid of it anyway. There is a big fight. Eventually, kid calms down, Mom feels awful, and nothing is really achieved.

 

Alternative scenario: Mom starts taking out unnecessary items, explaining why. Kid says "Fine, do whatever you like", mom does, kid continues to treat remaining items the same way because, after all, Mom won't do anything about *those*.

 

Alternative scenario 2: Mom starts taking out unnecessary items, explaining why. Kid says "Fine", sulks for a while, refuses to play with any toys or read any books that were removed from room. Mom tries to remedy this, kid gets sulkier, Mom feels bad and either returns items (kid wins!) or doesn't and the items never go back in the room (kid outgrows them, and six years later everybody laughs at how stubborn the kid is, but honestly, the message could've been learned without the bad feelings on all sides).

 

Sometimes it is better to just let these things go.

 

 

Wow.  Thank you for this.  I had no idea this behavior had a name.  We have the same child.  I have already learned to let these things go (sometimes I do this better than others) but I'm gobsmacked that this is a real thing.  I'm thrilled to know.

[Tanaqui]

Wow.  Thank you for this.  I had no idea this behavior had a name.  We have the same child.  I have already learned to let these things go (sometimes I do this better than others) but I'm gobsmacked that this is a real thing.  I'm thrilled to know.

 

A psychologist friend told me that a few years ago, and I had the same relief - it wasn't just *her*. Other kids do this too!

[8circles]

A psychologist friend told me that a few years ago, and I had the same relief - it wasn't just *her*. Other kids do this too!

 

Yes, it's relief.

[Spryte]

Yes! Tanaqui, thank you for sharing that. The sense of relief is huge. I even shared your post with DH.

 

My kiddo like this is 11 now. It's better. We've adapted, and adjusted, and mostly things are fine (though we too have our moments)... But to hear a name for it. Ahh! We're not alone!

 

Thanks. :)

[umsami]

DS2 or DD, I can't remember which, took all of the foam padding out of the Britax car seat during a very long car trip.  I kept seeing these little white dots, but had no idea what it was until I figured it was tiny dots of styrofoam.  I was very annoyed as it was an expensive car seat...but there was really nothing to be done, but buy a new car seat.

 

As for me and the OP, I'd probably be mad....so my kid would know I was upset.  I'd have them help me clean it up.  Evil-Mom-me would probably want to ban them from the replacement chair, but I wouldn't really do that. 

[BooksandBoys]

Wow, Tanaqui, you just described my 4 year-old to a tee. It's exhausting.