Ugh. Adult children who think they should have it all.

[Sarah CB]

That's it, really.  

 

Why does she think she can go to school, live on her own, own a car, and work a job that she wants (rather than a job that provides better for her needs!)?  

 

I've tried to talk to her in a million different ways, but it's not getting through.  She just thinks I'm trying to manipulate her into moving home.  We've always tried to let her know that she can live at home at any time and that we have a room here for her, but, *truthfully*, I don't actually want her to move home.  Isn't that terrible?  I love her and I think she's fantastic, but she's 19 now and she's fairly stubborn and she doesn't get along well with her eldest brother (she gets along well with the other two).  I'd much rather she stay living on her own, but I would definitely welcome her here if she ever realized that she couldn't afford everything she wants.  

 

Oh, and she's going to make different "parenting decisions" when she has an adult child who chooses to live out of the house.  

 

ETA: She is asking us for help.  She actually feels we should be paying all of her living expenses.  At the very least, she thinks we should buy her a car.  Instead of realizing that she isn't entitled to financial support and adjusting her expectations accordingly, she's talking about getting a loan.  

 

Ugh.  

 

 

[regentrude]

Why does she think she can go to school, live on her own, own a car, and work a job that she wants (rather than a job that provides better for her needs!)? 

 

 Because there are people who manage to pull it off?

 

I don't get what is so unreasonable about wanting this. If it does not work out with her job, she will learn the hard way.

Is she asking you for money, or what exactly is the problem? Just wanting "it all" does not strike me as odd. It's part of being young.

[plansrme]

 

Oh, and she's going to make different "parenting decisions" when she has an adult child who chooses to live out of the house.  

 

 

 

She probably will, but my final jab in any sort of major disagreement with my teenaged daughters is usually, "I am confident that you will look back on this and see it differently when you are in my position."  She still may not agree with you, and my daughters may never agree with me, but I do think they will all look back one day and, even if they never admit it, think, "Ohhhhh, yeah; I see now."  In the meantime, though, I'm sure you're doing a great job and that she will do a lot of growing up in the next three or four years.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have a 19 yo, too.  When she came home for the summer from her freshman year at (the much more expensive than we had planned on) college, she had developed this vision of her life that was so unrealistic that it would have been sad if it wasn't also so expensive.  I started writing it out, but it was so convoluted and ridiculous that I didn't want it in print.  Anyway, once she got a job the intensity of all of this kind of faded.  

[Anne in CA]

Well, if she's not asking you for money, it really isn't your business. If she wants to rack up consumer debt to live this way, as horrible as it is for her future, it is her deal.

 

If she is asking you for money, she loses her autonomy IMO. That is the deal I have with dd, 26. She wants to be "independent" and yet have dh and I help with all the bills she doesn't want to pay. She doesn't want to finish her last two college credits to get her degree to get a better job. She did move in with us almost two years ago now and it was AWFUL. She purposefully tried to destroy the relationship between her sister and brother and between her sister and I. She will not ever be moving back in. Not that she wants to, because we live in the very middle of nowhere, lol, so we are the only people she can work for and she didn't like being called out on being late to work and not doing things she was told to do.

 

My deepest sympathies, because I see a lot of this in the younger generation. It is one thing to make poor decisions, it is another thing when they feel entitled to make them and have their parents pay the consequences.

[Retired]

I have sons and they tend to be easier than girls thank God.   My now 21 year old son had it all figured out how he was going to have it all without the school -of -hard- knocks.  He wised up and is living at home saving money.   I'm sure your daughter will do the same in a few years.  I just hope she doesn't go into debt and have to move home to pay that off.  My sons was money wise but not life planning wise kwim.

 

He has a job with a great German company that will be sending him to Germany for school in January.  He is so excited and currently learning German.  He would of never got the job had it not been for moving home and  starting a home improvement business.  He happen to do work for one of the  german  managers at his home intermediately for 6 months.   The guy like what he saw and when a position open he literally was hired that day working the next.  He is moving up quickly and really enjoying the work.   He now thinks I'm a good parents at 19 he was going to do it all different.

 

When he was 19 I was afraid he was going to mess up his life so take heart your daughter may grow up more in the next few years and life decisions may become more responsible.  He had all type grandious ideas that just weren't reality

[Miss Marple]

 

 

I don't actually want her to move home.  Isn't that terrible? 

LOL!  If that's terrible, then I'm in the same boat with you.  I think it's all part of growing up.  Sometimes I find myself "raining on the parade" with my more experienced view of the world.  Most kids, at 19, have their heads in the clouds.  Some take advice better than others.  As long as she's safe, let her dream big :) and even encourage those dreams...sometimes dreams come true.

 

As much as I love having my boys home for the summers, I long for the day I get my house back.

[Happy]

More time in the real world takes the edges off this. Just nod, smile, and welcome her home on breaks, holidays, and such....or if she needs to move in.

 

My tongue has scars on it from me biting it.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

I blame "Friends", her favorite TV show.  It has the most unrealistic, non-traded off, expensive masquerading as almost free, single lifestyle image around.  And it kind of sets it as a norm.

[Sarah CB]

 Because there are people who manage to pull it off?

 

I don't get what is so unreasonable about wanting this. If it does not work out with her job, she will learn the hard way.

Is she asking you for money, or what exactly is the problem? Just wanting "it all" does not strike me as odd. It's part of being young.

 

She wants us to help pay for it.  She has friends whose parents pay for their living expenses and she feels we should be paying for hers.  Or that at the very least we should buy her a car - and maybe pay insurance, too.  

 

Her tuition, books, and cell phone are all taken care of - she doesn't have to worry about any of that.  She's choosing to live on her own instead of at home and yet she still feels like that's an entitlement and that we should be helping her to make that happen.  

 

I'm more than happy for her to manage to pull it all off on her own - I wish she would!  But, she wants us to help significantly.  And when she realized she wasn't going to get help for the car she started talking about taking out a line of credit.  

[Sarah CB]

I have a 19 yo, too.  When she came home for the summer from her freshman year at (the much more expensive than we had planned on) college, she had developed this vision of her life that was so unrealistic that it would have been sad if it wasn't also so expensive.  I started writing it out, but it was so convoluted and ridiculous that I didn't want it in print.  Anyway, once she got a job the intensity of all of this kind of faded.  

 

I'm hoping this all fades, too.  She knew it was going to be a struggle to come up with enough to pay for her rent and living expenses.  She's been working hard all summer and has a lot saved up for rent already, but she knew she'd still have to work during the school year.  Now that she's talking about "needing" a car I don't know what she's going to do.  She looked into insurance and the cheapest insurance she can find is $350/month.  Even if we bought her a car she would have a hard time paying for insurance and gas and living on her own.

[Lady Florida.]

 Because there are people who manage to pull it off?

 

I don't get what is so unreasonable about wanting this. If it does not work out with her job, she will learn the hard way.

Is she asking you for money, or what exactly is the problem? Just wanting "it all" does not strike me as odd. It's part of being young.

 

I agree, there's nothing wrong with wanting this. If she's not asking for you to support her while she tries to have it all, I don't understand the problem. Is it just that you know how hard it is and don't want her to go through the pain of learning? You have life experience. She doesn't. She might need to learn the hard way. I understand not wanting her to move home, but being open to letting it happen if she needs to. We were once in your position. We kept the door open even while we hoped dss wouldn't need to use it. But he did, and that was okay.

 

She probably will, but my final jab in any sort of major disagreement with my teenaged daughters is usually, "I am confident that you will look back on this and see it differently when you are in my position."  She still may not agree with you, and my daughters may never agree with me, but I do think they will all look back one day and, even if they never admit it, think, "Ohhhhh, yeah; I see now."  In the meantime, though, I'm sure you're doing a great job and that she will do a lot of growing up in the next three or four years.

 

Dss was around 19 when he and his buddy decided they were going to be live on their own so they could be FREE. It didn't take long for him to come back with his tail between his legs. We knew it would happen and we made a point not to gloat. He now looks back at that time and laughs. As for doing things differently, he doesn't have adult children yet (see my sig), but he's already making some different child rearing decisions and some the same. 

 

A few years can make a world of difference. 

[Sarah CB]

I blame "Friends", her favorite TV show.  It has the most unrealistic, non-traded off, expensive masquerading as almost free, single lifestyle image around.  And it kind of sets it as a norm.

 

I'll blame Friends, too.  Even though I don't know if she's ever seen an episode.  It saves me from blaming myself.  We've had so many conversations with this kid about saving money, being financially responsible, and getting through school without any loans.  

[gardenmom5]

 some kids need to learn on their own.  some kids need mom to step back, and just watch.  just like when they're learning how to walk, they will fall down, but we cheer their efforts.  then they get back up, and walk again.

if she's not asking you for money, etc.  I don't see the problem.

[Carol in Cal.]

See, it's the expectation that parents will bankroll this that makes it really rankle.

 

I found that being really clear about what I would and would not pay for was increasingly crucial as we moved into the college years.  For example, I sent (really good) care packages to college, with some spending cash tucked into them, but I also loaded funds for groceries into her checking account so she could shop for food with her debit card.  I was DEATH on 'don't use your card for anything but necessities.'  (With mixed success.  I had to watch the statements a bit more than I feel I should have, but have consoled myself that that was fairly common amoung my friends as well.)  

When it came to the summer, I was all encouraging about EITHER community college study OR a resume-enhancing but unpaid internship OR a paying job, but there was going to be no idyllic summer of perpetual relaxation while DH and I work SO HARD to earn the money for, among other things, her college; nor was there going to be any paying for living elsewhere while doing any of those things, not while jobs and almost free community colleges abound around here where she can live essentially for free.

 

[Miss Marple]

 

 

I'm more than happy for her to manage to pull it all off on her own - I wish she would!  But, she wants us to help significantly.  And when she realized she wasn't going to get help for the car she started talking about taking out a line of credit.  

Hmmm...yes, she's hoping to live the good life before she can pay for it lol.  Does your daughter need a vehicle to get to school and work?  If so, I would suggest helping on that if you are financially able to do it.  Sometimes we need to assist just a bit in the growing up process.

 

My "prior to kids" view was that my kids were going to pay their own way...college, car, etc.; however, prices are dramatically different today than when I was a young adult.  Sometimes just a little boost helps our kids.  If you want her to have a job and learn to be financially independent, you may need to provide a way for her to get there.

 

She doesn't need a new vehicle or even an expensive used one...she just needs wheels.  Our boys all used a 1993 Nissan Maxima to get around.  They paid for gas.  We paid for insurance.  Eventually they saved enough to buy 1/2 of their own vehicle of choice (up to a certain amount).  But if they had not had a car to get to work, they would not have been able to do that.

[Lady Florida.]

She wants us to help pay for it.  She has friends whose parents pay for their living expenses and she feels we should be paying for hers.  Or that at the very least we should buy her a car - and maybe pay insurance, too.  

 

 

 

I responded before I saw this. No, I wouldn't pay for living expenses in that case. Either you live at home while you save money or you have enough to live on your own. Helping out is one thing. Us paying for the basics so you can pay for the extras is another. OTOH, I would hate to see my adult child get debt problems so early on. 

 

I wouldn't let my adult child go hungry and I'd keep him on our heath insurance so that wouldn't be a concern for him, but I also wouldn't support a lifestyle that's unrealistic. I feel for you. You are in a tough position. 

[73349]

 some kids need to learn on their own.  some kids need mom to step back, and just watch.  just like when they're learning how to walk, they will fall down, but we cheer their efforts.  then they get back up, and walk again.

if she's not asking you for money, etc.  I don't see the problem.

 

And since she is asking for money, you can say no.

[Jean in Newcastle]

She may just have to make an expensive mistake or two or three.  I know it is hard to watch.  Just don't co-sign anything.  

[bettyandbob]

I have a child who feels entitlement like this. I don't know where he got the idea, his younger sibling is not like this at all. It's a real pain to listen to and deal with. We just continually repeat, "this is what we will pay for."

 

We live in a wealthy area, but are far from wealthy and as far as I can tell probably have the lowest family income of friends of our dc. Perhaps this is part of why oldest thinks he should have x,y, z. Middle child has always understood her circumstances were different and generally rolls her eyes at some things her peers take for granted (stuff, vacations).

 

I think if she calls to gripe about circumstance, I would try to maintain an emotionally distant "that stinks" agreement. When she asks for money, go back to the broken record response of "we pay for a, b, c."

 

I'm right there with you of not really wanted the adult child in the house.

[Catwoman]

I can understand that she wants the moon, but you can only afford to give her a certain amount of money, and if a car and car insurance aren't in that budget, she will have to deal with it.

 

I am wondering, though, if she actually needs a car to get to school and work. If having the car will enable her to earn more money and pay for more of her expenses, maybe you could loan her the money for it -- assuming you trust her enough to know she will repay you.

 

The thing that concerns me the most isn't buying a car for a single child -- it's the fact that you have other children, so if you buy your dd a car, it is only fair to buy a car for your other kids, and they might resent you if you don't. I guess what I am saying is that you would be setting a precedent by getting your dd a car or giving her more money, and your other kids may expect equal treatment when they are her age.

 

Personally, her snotty and entitled attitude are what bother me the most. It sounds like you have already been generous with her, yet she still expects more. And her comment about "making different parental decisions" was just plain rude. If that is consistently the attitude you are getting from her, I don't blame you for not wanting to indulge her.

 

I keep thinking that if she was sweet about it and didn't give you the "you owe me" speeches, you would have probably been far more amenable to helping her get the car. It's a different story when a kid has a sense of entitlement, because I'm sure you are already picturing yourself agreeing to a particular car and her whining that her friend has a nicer one, so you should get her something better. :glare: And if you say yes to the car, will her next request be that you buy her a house?

[gardenmom5]

I have sons and they tend to be easier than girls thank God.  

 

 

gently - roflol.  they are all different.  some boys are with it, and some aren't.  just like some girls are with it, and some aren't.

I have two adult daughters, and two adult sons.  my girls were far easier to get launched than my boys. (re: completely self-directed, and self-supporting.) same with a sil's family.  gender has proven irrelevant.

 

now If I can just get ds to take English . . . (the teachers are crazy - six foreign language films?  for an English class?) it's his hurdle to move on with his degree.

 

She wants us to help pay for it.  

 

then you have the right to tell her what to do.  she can't have it both way. that's just life (eventually, she'll appreciate that) . . . how does she like them apples?

stick to your guns. - then stand back and allow her to experience life.  some kids only learn that way.  do tell her to consider how much debt she's willing to incur that she will then have to pay off when she graduates. she should add up her monthly payments - but now, and what they'll be after she graduates.  she will have to start paying student loans as soon as she graduates.  I was reading a rant by a law graduate who couldn't afford the debt load they'd incurred - because they wanted to live "comfortably/nice" while a student.

 

the "loans for living" was a big reason why many of 2dd's classmates had twice (or more) as much debt as her. (she just received a doctorate.  her yearly income will be more than her loans.  she has classmates who can't say that.)

[PeachyDoodle]

DH and I have discussed this many, many times. It is such a trap that young people fall into these days, that (it doesn't seem to me, at least) our parents and generations before had: young adults thinking they should go straight from their parents' homes to living the sort of lifestyle their parents have taken decades to build. He and I went through the same thing when we were first married, straight out of college -- it seemed like we worked so hard and could afford so little! But we comforted ourselves with the fact that our parents, at our age, sat on large cushions because they couldn't afford furniture and ate canned soup because that's all they had. We at least had two cars (old), a nice little house (rented), and the money for dinner out (cheap!) once in awhile.

 

I'm not sure what led us to the expectation that we should have the same lifestyle as our parents immediately upon leaving home... but I hope I can better prepare my own kids for reality. It takes time to build a life and home, even if you make decent money. And that's ok.

 

On the other hand, I've known plenty of young adults whose parents did seem to set them up in a "parental" lifestyle right off the bat. Including my cousin, who, at 33, still lives at home, despite having a Master's degree and a thriving company of his own. He recently moved his new wife in as well.

 

Hugs, OP. I would stand firm on not giving her the money just because she thinks she's entitled to it. She will value the things she earns for herself so much more in the long run.

[Guest]

That's it, really.

 

Why does she think she can go to school, live on her own, own a car, and work a job that she wants (rather than a job that provides better for her needs!)?

 

I've tried to talk to her in a million different ways, but it's not getting through. She just thinks I'm trying to manipulate her into moving home. We've always tried to let her know that she can live at home at any time and that we have a room here for her, but, *truthfully*, I don't actually want her to move home. Isn't that terrible? I love her and I think she's fantastic, but she's 19 now and she's fairly stubborn and she doesn't get along well with her eldest brother (she gets along well with the other two). I'd much rather she stay living on her own, but I would definitely welcome her here if she ever realized that she couldn't afford everything she wants.

 

Oh, and she's going to make different "parenting decisions" when she has an adult child who chooses to live out of the house.

 

ETA: She is asking us for help. She actually feels we should be paying all of her living expenses. At the very least, she thinks we should buy her a car. Instead of realizing that she isn't entitled to financial support and adjusting her expectations accordingly, she's talking about getting a loan.

 

Ugh.

With the added information, I'd have a hard time not laughing in her face. You're being totally reasonable, and she needs to hear ther she deserves nothing she has not earned, herself. She is an adult. Welcome to life.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I admire her tenacity. Maybe I would have gone a bit further with that attitude.  Who knows?

 

I agree things may be a lot harder than she realizes, but she might surprise you too.

 

 

[WinsomeCreek]

She wants us to help pay for it. She has friends whose parents pay for their living expenses and she feels we should be paying for hers. Or that at the very least we should buy her a car - and maybe pay insurance, too.

 

Her tuition, books, and cell phone are all taken care of - she doesn't have to worry about any of that. She's choosing to live on her own instead of at home and yet she still feels like that's an entitlement and that we should be helping her to make that happen.

 

I'm more than happy for her to manage to pull it all off on her own - I wish she would! But, she wants us to help significantly. And when she realized she wasn't going to get help for the car she started talking about taking out a line of credit.

I think having friends like this are the biggest part of the problem. My sister went through a change to total entitlement when she found herself surrounded by people with such family support. Some families do this and provide quite a bit of support for adult children. I will say that I have rarely seen it without strings attached. If your dd can find more friends with a mindset of self sufficiency and sacrifice she will probably change her perspective.

[regentrude]

She wants us to help pay for it.  She has friends whose parents pay for their living expenses and she feels we should be paying for hers.  Or that at the very least we should buy her a car - and maybe pay insurance, too.  

Her tuition, books, and cell phone are all taken care of - she doesn't have to worry about any of that.  She's choosing to live on her own instead of at home and yet she still feels like that's an entitlement and that we should be helping her to make that happen.  

I'm more than happy for her to manage to pull it all off on her own - I wish she would!  But, she wants us to help significantly.  And when she realized she wasn't going to get help for the car she started talking about taking out a line of credit.  

 

OK, that is completely different. She is not entitled to any financial support from you- you decide how much you want to offer.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

What cracks me up is that DD thinks her lifestyle should be better than ours.  That's why I mentioned Friends.  I can't imagine where else she would have gotten that idea.  Maybe Pinterest.  I don't know.  It's really weird.

[Arcadia]

Hubby's aunt bought their oldest child a new car as a wedding present. The younger sibling demanded one as a wedding present too. So it gets kind of tricky on how much parent sponsorship you can or are willing to dole out.

 

I do see plenty of dads at the dealerships looking at new small commuter cars for their high school daughters so I get the peer influence factor too.

[bettyandbob]

I have sons and they tend to be easier than girls thank God.  

 

Being entitled affects both genders. My older ds is the one having difficulty not realizing the world is not going to magically appear the way he wants. dd seems to have better grasp on reality.

[Catwoman]

I think having friends like this are the biggest part of the problem. My sister went through a change to total entitlement when she found herself surrounded by people with such family support. Some families do this and provide quite a bit of support for adult children. I will say that I have rarely seen it without strings attached. If your dd can find more friends with a mindset of self sufficiency and sacrifice she will probably change her perspective.

We are one of those families who will provide extensive financial support to our ds... but I have to tell you that if he came home and started making demands for more because he felt we owed it to him, he would learn a hard lesson very quickly.

 

I don't react well to demands and a sense of entitlement. I am happy to help in any way I can. I'll pay for the college and I'll buy the car and the first house, but if he acts like it is his right to have those things simply because he exists on this planet and he can behave like a complete jerk or be irresponsible and still expect to get those things, he has another thing coming. I would not reward that kind of attitude.

 

I should also mention that while I plan to do those things for my ds, he doesn't know it yet, and I don't plan to tell him until the time comes, because I don't want him to lose his motivation for achieving things on his own, and I definitely don't want to promise him things and then hold them over his head as blackmail to get him to do what I want him to do. I hate it when parents do that.

[Seasider]

I've got one that doesn't want to talk about college expenses because "I'm the one taking out and paying back the loans, not you, Mom!"

 

Ahem, if you will take a moment to learn how to examine your student financial records online, you will see that there is a significant gap between what your financial aid covers and what you will owe the university. If you have any hope of bridging, you better start acting in a more reasonable (hey, maybe even nice!) manner.

 

Better do it quick, too, because if you discover you need to scramble for additional funds or a part time job... you're running out of time, kiddo.

 

Sarah, I haven't read all the replies, but I commiserate with you. Parenting a young adult is tough! In your shoes, I might say something like, "Our budget allows us to provide $x, which you can choose to use for (education, car, whatever acceptable by parents). The rest is up to you." The end. Lather rinse repeat. She will have to learn it the hard way, as will the child of mine who thinks the money tree out back actually sprouts cash.

[Seasider]

More time in the real world takes the edges off this. Just nod, smile, and welcome her home on breaks, holidays, and such....or if she needs to move in.

 

My tongue has scars on it from me biting it.

Being still in the learning process, mine is still just bloody. But that scar tissue is developing.

[gardenmom5]

 

She doesn't need a new vehicle or even an expensive used one...she just needs wheels.  Our boys all used a 1993 Nissan Maxima to get around.  They paid for gas.  We paid for insurance.  Eventually they saved enough to buy 1/2 of their own vehicle of choice (up to a certain amount).  But if they had not had a car to get to work, they would not have been able to do that.

 

2dd drove our 20 yo kid car. (worth about $600) no passenger side mirror, and no radio. it was totally basic, but cheap. she paid maintenance, license and insurance. (she ended up with it by default). she did have to have a car, and did a combination of bus and car depending upon her schedule.  she looked into renting an apartment with friends, but determined she really couldn't afford it. (her living situation changed several times, but she never paid rent.)  but her loans are very low.

 

last fall, I also let her know I expected it back after she graduated and started working.  this was before she started dating her dh.  he put her in his suv (that he bought last summer, and hates.) - he's amazed how much stuff she ends up hauling around, and bought another sedan like he used to have, and missed a lot.

 

 

eta: I should add this was during her doctoral program.  for her undergrad - she was in an itty bitty town and the college provided mass transit shuttles around town that the locals could also use.

 

She may just have to make an expensive mistake or two or three.  I know it is hard to watch.  Just don't co-sign anything.  

 

:iagree:  :iagree: :iagree:  :iagree:  :iagree:  

 

 

On the other hand, I've known plenty of young adults whose parents did seem to set them up in a "parental" lifestyle right off the bat. Including my cousin, who, at 33, still lives at home, despite having a Master's degree and a thriving company of his own. He recently moved his new wife in as well.

 

 

ah-  reminds me of the commercial with the voice over of - now that you've completed college, graduated from medical school, finished your first few years of private practice, it's time to get your own house.  (he's been living at home.)

 

so - he approaches mom and dad to get their opinions on the houses he thinking of looking at.  "WE LIKE IT".  well, what about this one "WE LIKE IT" . . . well, what about . . . "WE LIKE IT".

 

1dd didn't want to move out. (she had her degree, and was making good money.) she likes living with people.  she finally bought a house of her own (and the entire contents of a vacation 2bdrm rental condo to furnish it - so she started out pretty well.)  and had ds move in with her.  it's been a good experience for her.  but there were times . .  "WE LIKE IT".

[Greta]

 

ETA: She is asking us for help.  She actually feels we should be paying all of her living expenses.  At the very least, she thinks we should buy her a car.  Instead of realizing that she isn't entitled to financial support and adjusting her expectations accordingly, she's talking about getting a loan.  

 

Ugh.  

 

I know that a lot of people think Dave Ramsey is too extreme, but I think that his kind of extreme might be what your daughter needs.  You might consider paying for her to attend Financial Peace University, and then beyond that, just tell her no, you are covering all of the expenses you're going to cover.  She may have to learn these lessons the hard way.  :(  I know I did.

 

I have sons and they tend to be easier than girls thank God.

 

I know many, many parents who would disagree with you on that.  

[Catwoman]

We're dealing with the opposite--ds living in his car to save money! Sometimes dear, you do have to spend some... His housing for the summer didn't pan out so he found a new place. But once he'd signed everything--oh you can't get in for 3 more weeks! It all worked out, as he had 2 weeks of AF training, so it was just as well he wasn't paying rent, but c'mon, you really do need to not be living in your car for 6-8 weeks! Oldest dd did this too--lived up Boulder Canyon, fishing for her protein because she was broke.

 

I'm watching Army girl flounder around--she got sent home from LDAC with yet another injury. She either needs to get back on with the county, go to work for the construction company that dh is working for, get a motel job here and clean at the resort up the road, or go back to WY for her motel job there. But it's hard to know what to do because of waiting on surgery.

 

We help out when we can, but with dh not having a real full-time job, it's hard. We don't support unrealistic lifestyles. I just stopped typing to go see what phone calls dd has made this morning. The county had to hire TWO people to cover what she was doing, so it's a no-go, but she still has the other options.

 

We don't bankroll kids, though I see far too many parents who do. My kids have always been disgusted by that.

Why would they care about what other parents are doing to help their own kids? :confused:

 

"Disgusted" is a pretty strong term.

[WinsomeCreek]

I should add that we also plan on offering extensive support as we are able. Absolutely it is about attitude and entitlement. I've seen it go the right way, with adult children receiving *substantial* to complete support from parents and extended family and accepting with gratitude and grace. In the few cases (observed over a lifetime) it was temporary and the 'kids' were working hard toward self reliance or specific goal.

 

Extended families are a beautiful thing largely under appreciated here in the US, IMO. I hope my kids don't need me when they are grown, but also hope they do.

 

OP, it would be different if she came to you with a humble and grateful heart, wouldn't it? Is this a case where it would help to sit down and translate the money into hours SHE would have to work at her current job? Remind her that those are hours she will have to work to pay back loans later?

 

Gardenmom: I love that your ds moved in with your dd. I've encouraged my kids to consider leapfrog supporting each other through college to avoid debt and still have some of the pricier places as options.

[Retired]

The girls that my sons' grew up have been much worse than their brothers so that's where my comparison was being made.  I know its hard either way "parenting" an adult.    We make the transition  with our kids to an  adult/adult relationship vs a child/parent.  They want to fall to the parent/child relationships when they think we should purchase them stuff.   We have to stay strong and explain that the are responsible for themselves.    I know the mother in me wants to give and help but I know that no is the best answer to  helping them learn self sufficiency.

[HRAAB]

We are one of those families who will provide extensive financial support to our ds... but I have to tell you that if he came home and started making demands for more because he felt we owed it to him, he would learn a hard lesson very quickly.

 

I don't react well to demands and a sense of entitlement. I am happy to help in any way I can. I'll pay for the college and I'll buy the car and the first house, but if he acts like it is his right to have those things simply because he exists on this planet and he can behave like a complete jerk or be irresponsible and still expect to get those things, he has another thing coming. I would not reward that kind of attitude.

 

I should also mention that while I plan to do those things for my ds, he doesn't know it yet, and I don't plan to tell him until the time comes, because I don't want him to lose his motivation for achieving things on his own, and I definitely don't want to promise him things and then hold them over his head as blackmail to get him to do what I want him to do. I hate it when parents do that.

 

I've often wondered what I would do financially for my girls if I had the resources.  I've always maintained that even if I could, I wouldn't.  Honestly though, I'm not sure that is what I would do because I do like helping my children.  At the same time, I want them to be hard working, diligent, responsible, and compassionate.  I don't think the two (parents helping with large financial expenditures and the kid having to do it all on his own) are mutually exclusive.  One thing I know that I can't stand is an entitlement attitude.  That would get them nothing very quickly.

 

As it is, my girls have known from early on what they can expect in the way of financial help.  It is what it is.  Fortunately, none yet have asked for more, but they're not all grown.  We buy a used, older, dependable car when they start driving, and we pay their car insurance as long as they keep their good student discount.  Both our older dds ended up buying the car from us after a couple of years in college, and then they were responsible for their own insurance.  We supply a cheap, no contract phone.  They want more, they pay for it.  There is a set amount of money in their college funds, and that is all of it.  Spend it wisely is our advice.  They're are more than welcome to live with us while in school if they stay local.  No rent and monetary expectations, just pick up after yourself and be respectful.  If they choose to move out, they are on their own.  They know that.  Both the older ones moved out; one moved back.  They are both advising their younger sister to live at home.  We'll see if she follows her older siblings' advice.  My older girls have hard part-time jobs while in college.

 

Anyway, what is available in the way of help from us has always been made clear.  It probably also helps that they've seen us survive three layoffs in the last ten years.  That was a real life education.  I like those things being made clear well in advance.  I always tell them if we win the big lottery, then we'll adjust those plans.

[PeachyDoodle]

  

ah-  reminds me of the commercial with the voice over of - now that you've completed college, graduated from medical school, finished your first few years of private practice, it's time to get your own house.  (he's been living at home.)

 

so - he approaches mom and dad to get their opinions on the houses he thinking of looking at.  "WE LIKE IT".  well, what about this one "WE LIKE IT" . . . well, what about . . . "WE LIKE IT".

 

1dd didn't want to move out. (she had her degree, and was making good money.) she likes living with people.  she finally bought a house of her own (and the entire contents of a vacation 2bdrm rental condo to furnish it - so she started out pretty well.)  and had ds move in with her.  it's been a good experience for her.  but there were times . .  "WE LIKE IT".

 

LOL -- I have a feeling that will be me, too. We certainly want to help our kids get on their feet, plan to assist with their educations, will probably buy them (beater!) cars at 16 (we live rural, so it will be as much to my benefit as theirs for them to be able to drive themselves around), etc. But they need to understand that it takes time to accrue all those *things* that they've become accustomed to taking for granted.

 

As for my cousin, there are bigger issues there. His parents are actually adding on to their house so he and his new wife have more room. We snicker behind their backs and call it the "honeymoon suite." It is the most bizarre situation -- but like a pp said, in families where stuff like this is handed to kids, it often comes with strings.

 

I will say, my parents and in-laws have always been willing to come to our aid when we've been in need -- but dh and I are also too proud to ask unless it's dire. It's always been a greater temptation to go into debt to afford what we want. We've fought against that our whole married life. The pressure to keep up with the Joneses can be intense.

[Carol in Cal.]

It's a very different conversation to look your kid in the eye and say, "We can't afford that." than it is to say, "We have the money for that but don't choose to give it to you."  I know a lot of parents who are far more well to do than we are who really struggle with this, and it's a real and genuine difficulty.

[Annie G]

DH and I have discussed this many, many times. It is such a trap that young people fall into these days, that (it doesn't seem to me, at least) our parents and generations before had: young adults thinking they should go straight from their parents' homes to living the sort of lifestyle their parents have taken decades to build.

 

 

 

This. When we started out, we lived in a cheap apartment and had to use the pay washer and dryer halfway across the complex.  Our typical weekend entertainment was playing cards with friends, or swimming in the apartment pool. 

 

Now, kids want it all, from the beginning. You should see the suite my son lives in at school- with free laundry facilities right down the hallway.  The dining hall has every cuisine you'd ever want, right down to a huge grill like Hu Hot so you can watch your custom lunch cooked right in front of you. And it's all access- you can have as much as you want.

 

BTW, this is required where ds attends school- they only have suites and an all access meal plan is required.

 

  Living in a crappy dorm and eating ramen were experiences that made us want to get out of school and raise our standard of living.  

[texasmama]

She is young and acting young.  Time and maturity will fix this.

 

Our kids are exactly the same ages and the same genders except my last one is a girl.  

 

My college girl is not grabby and entitled regarding money and stuff at all, but I have to OFTEN remind myself and dh that she is 19 (turning 20 in a week), and how mature were we at those ages?  I was a mess at 19, an absolute mess!  I drove my life off a cliff.  Being entitled and immature is better than some of the alternatives so maybe you can reframe it that way.

 

 

[Miss Mousie]

Do not forget Jean's advice:  Do not co-sign anything!

 

If she wants to get a line of credit, fine.  Offer to go with her to help her make sense of the terms so she understands her interest rate, the ultimate cost, etc.  If she declines your offer, fine.  Not your problem.

 

You are covering enough.  It IS enough, because it is what YOU have determined is enough.

 

Her snark about "making different parenting decisions" would have made my head explode.  It would be difficult for me to stop at "that's fine, dear."

 

And, really, if she again mentions thinking you're trying to get her to move back home, I'd tell her what you said here (the milder part):  "I'd rather you stayed living on your own."

 

I know, so easy for me to say when I only have a 14-yr-old.  Maybe you should just think of me as the devil on your shoulder and ignore the advice (but don't ignore Jean's!!).  ;)

 

 

 

 

[DawnM]

We have been very clear with our kids as to what we can and are willing to do for them once they get to college age.   We have a set amount they can have from us, the rest THEY cover.  

 

ETA:  It is enough to cover the local 4 year state university while they live at home.  So we feel it is beyond fair.  It CAN cover a 4 year degree.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

I also would not change what I was doing.  You are being really great in providing as much as you are, and if you can't afford more, you can't.  Kids have to learn to accept those realities.  If she takes out a LOC that will be too bad, but perhaps that is what she will need to learn.  With a little luck they won't give her much credit without a co-signer.

 

That being said - I think it is really hard for kids to transition from feeling that they should have all their basic needs provided for (and "basic' will depend on what they think is normal in many cases) and taking on most of the responsibility for themselves.  I remember when I was deciding where to apply to university and my parents told me i would have to live at home because they could not afford living expenses and neither could I.  I really felt that somehow I was being done some sort of injustice and i was helpless to somehow fix it on my own.  I really had no way to get more money.  And yet there was a strong sense that my parents especially and society more generally was supposed to help me reach my full potential (which meant following my own inclinations of course.) 

 

It may be that part of it was a sense that I had to accomplish some sort of self-actualization or I would be a failure.  i wouldn't have put it that way, but there was a sense of pressure about these things I was supposed to do, rather hazy things really but they included finishing university in something that would somehow define the sort of person I was.

[gardenmom5]

Gardenmom: I love that your ds moved in with your dd. I've encouraged my kids to consider leapfrog supporting each other through college to avoid debt and still have some of the pricier places as options.

 

I love that my kids like spending time together - and choose to spend time together. and have fun together and support each other.  that was my goal, because I was raised *very* differently, and barely have any contact with my siblings.  (they have very little contact with each other as well.)

 

LOL -- I have a feeling that will be me, too. We certainly want to help our kids get on their feet, plan to assist with their educations, will probably buy them (beater!) cars at 16 (we live rural, so it will be as much to my benefit as theirs for them to be able to drive themselves around), etc. But they need to understand that it takes time to accrue all those *things* that they've become accustomed to taking for granted.

 

As for my cousin, there are bigger issues there. His parents are actually adding on to their house so he and his new wife have more room. We snicker behind their backs and call it the "honeymoon suite." It is the most bizarre situation -- but like a pp said, in families where stuff like this is handed to kids, it often comes with strings.

 

I will say, my parents and in-laws have always been willing to come to our aid when we've been in need -- but dh and I are also too proud to ask unless it's dire. It's always been a greater temptation to go into debt to afford what we want. We've fought against that our whole married life. The pressure to keep up with the Joneses can be intense.

 

I've known people who lived with parents after they were married   - but they were also saving down payments for a house and not spending the money on rent.  I smh at one couple I knew who lived in a big rental house with one and then two tiny kids - and complained about how much houses cost.  (especially if you are spending a lot on rent instead of saving for a down payment  . . . and the extensive wall of toys . . . . . My kids didn't have that when they were little, but we owned our house)

[Sarah CB]

I've often wondered what I would do financially for my girls if I had the resources.  I've always maintained that even if I could, I wouldn't.  Honestly though, I'm not sure that is what I would do because I do like helping my children.  At the same time, I want them to be hard working, diligent, responsible, and compassionate.  I don't think the two (parents helping with large financial expenditures and the kid having to do it all on his own) are mutually exclusive.  One thing I know that I can't stand is an entitlement attitude.  That would get them nothing very quickly.

 

 

 

We're able to help, but we're not sure that helping her is actually going to help her.  We've always told the kids that we don't want them taking out student loans.  We've said that they can live with us as long as they need to - for free - so that they can go to school.  We did offer dd a car back when she was first looking at university - we said that if she lived at home and went to the local university we'd buy a kid car for her to get back and forth with (we lived about 1/2 hour from the university and public transit would have been a nightmare).  

 

She decided that she had to attend a university on the other side of the country because of the fantastic engineering program they had.  We had lots of talks with her and ended up supporting her decision because of the uniqueness of the program.  All of her tuition and living expenses were paid for and she lived in residence.  3/4 of the way through her first year she decided that engineering was not for her.  She felt called to "help people" and so she decided she wanted to switch to social work.  She spent the last year living in res (supported) and doing her social work prerequisites.  We happened to also move to the city in which she's living during that year.  

 

So now, we live 15 minutes away from the university so she could live at home for free but she wants to rent a house with her girlfriends.  The house is across the street from the campus so no "need" for a car.  There are places she can work within walking distance.  The job she wants would require a car but might not even pay enough to cover the car.  

 

We really want to do everything for her.  Dh and I keep asking ourselves - should we buy her a car?  Should we pay for insurance?  But, what I keep going back to is that she's making choices.  If she wants to have a car she may not be able to afford to live with her girlfriends. If she wants to live with her girlfriends she may have to sacrifice her dream job and waitress instead.  She wants us to pick up the slack so that she can live on her own, drive a car, and work the job she wants to work while going to school.  And she's mad because we're not immediately jumping to do this for her.

 

She is a hard worker.  She's working all this summer to save up rent for the coming year.  She knows she has to be responsible for her own living expenses, she's just mad about it.  I can't justify paying her rent and food just so she can live 15 minutes away when she could easily live at home.  As much as it would be a sacrifice for her and for us it just seems like a big waste of money for her to be living on her own when we're so close to the university.  

 

We could definitely afford to help her more, but I can't get my head around how that would actually help her out.  She doesn't have to live on her own.  If she lives across from the university and within walking distance of viable employment then she doesn't have to have a car.  

[gardenmom5]

 

Her snark about "making different parenting decisions" would have made my head explode.  It would be difficult for me to stop at "that's fine, dear."

 

I would have been snickering too loudly to say even that much.

 

yes dear.  tell me more when you have teenagers . . .  :smilielol5:

2dd used to tell me what I needed to do with dudeling.  she lived on the other side of the country, and rarely saw him.  granted, she's quite amazing with children (she could give the pied piper lessons), but when she was home, she found him taxing.  (1dd, who'd graduated and moved home, commented he came so late because he needed to be surrounded by adults.)

1dd and I would look at each other, and think how naïve she was.  and she would get her reality check. (we'd like to be flies on the wall to watch.)

[Sarah CB]

We have been very clear with our kids as to what we can and are willing to do for them once they get to college age.   We have a set amount they can have from us, the rest THEY cover.  

 

And we were, too.  At least I thought we were.  It's pretty simple.

 

1.  Live at home for free while going to university.

2.  Anyone who lives at home for free gets to use a family car to get to and from university.

3.  Choose to go to school elsewhere for a degree that you could get from the local university instead and you'll have to pay your own living expenses.

4.  Your tuition and books are paid for no matter where you live.

5.  If you must go to a university that is far away because only that university offers the kind of program you're looking for then your living expenses will be paid for.  

6. Don't want to live at home anymore?  You'll have to pay your own living expenses.

 

We haven't changed the rules - although we did help her out last year and told her to think of it as a transition year.  She knew she was on her own for living expenses this coming year.