Having a SERIOUS panic attack-just looked at math samples of new PSAT and 9th grade dd wouldn't know ANY of them!

[HappyGrace]

She is an excellent student but terrible in math, I mean terrible, always has been (no learning disabilities). She is currently doing Foerster's Algebra 1 (not quite halfway through, in Chapter 6), and we're also going through Horizons Pre-Algebra for spiral basic math practice.

 

Well, I looked at the sample math questions for the new PSAT/SAT (she will take the PSAT this October), and she literally would not be able to do ONE of them. Honestly, I even had a hard time and barely understood them (I'm awful in math too.) I was trying to read them and my mind just cannot even comprehend how to even attempt them, and she will be ten times as lost.

 

Please help-what is our best course of action here to prep? How can I shore up her math weaknesses and make sure she is ready for the PSAT? Basically, picture if your child couldn't do any of the problems in the samples (the NEW samples, which are all word problems)-what would you do?

 

I want to cry right now. Seriously, I am the worst homeschool mother ever. I have totally failed.  :crying: I desperately need specific pointers on what to do to remedy this, PLEASE!!!!!

 

Should I take her out of Foerster's Algebra and put her in something like Saxon, which is probably better test prep? She cried every day in Saxon 8/7 though, and the Foerster's is working, but I don't see anything like what we're doing so far in Foerster's on the SAT sample questions! I just want her to ace the SATs-they are so important. She will never be good at math but she needs to do well on the SAT for nursing school, her dream. HELPPPPPP

 

ETA: I just went back and looked at the samples again, and I am literally almost in a panic attack. They all look like a foreign language. How did this happen???!!!

[regentrude]

First of all: you have not failed and you are not the worst homeschool mother ever.

 

Edit: must have overlooked the "9th grade" info To better understand your situation, can you please tell us what grade she is in?

 

And why does she need to take the PSAT in the first place??? I would not do this with a student who did not have NM potential.

 

If she is in 9th grade, I would simply give her time and solidify the prealgebra. You can not rush math, and she won't need the SAT for two years - so test prep should not be on your mind right now.

 

ETA: I would also look into the ACT.

[EKS]

Your daughter does not need to take the PSAT.  Or the SAT for that matter.  Take a look at the ACT.  It is a much more straightforward test.

[Daria]

She'll take the PSAT for practice this year.  The only reason to take the test in 10th grade is to get used to the setting, to have experience with the bubbles and the number 2 pencils and the proctoring rules.  Her score in sophomore year doesn't matter at all.  It's just so that the following fall (if she happens to be a top 2%, National Merit kind of kid) or next spring (if she's part of the bottom 97% of the population of kids taking the test) when she takes tests that do count, she's comfortable.  

 

Between now and fall of Junior year, when she takes the PSAT for "real", have her finish Algebra 1, take geometry, and start Algebra 2.  After the PSAT, have her continue Algebra 2.  When you get those scores back, look at the results, see where her scores were low and make a plan to review those things.  But keep in mind that by that time she'll have far more high school math under her belt.

 

Then, when she takes a test that does count, usually in the spring of Junior year, although some kids choose a winter test date or wait until the summer, she'll be ready.

 

 

[Kalmia]

"Relax!" says my husband, a former SAT curriculum director for two major test prep companies and current SAT tutor. Nobody has to take the PSAT. It is a PRACTICE SAT. The only reason to take it is if the student has a shot at a National Merit Scholarship. Most students take it just to practice under true testing conditions. It sounds like your child would just have additional stress from taking the PSAT, better to use the time before junior or senior year to shore up her math for the real test. In my husband's opinion (from the samples and the statements of the man in charge of the new SAT) the new PSAT/SAT is a disaster in the making, and the ACT is now the much better test so aim towards that.

[creekland]

In your post you said that your DD is not quite halfway through Alg 1.  I looked at about half the questions on the test (didn't have time for the other half) and all of the questions seemed quite reasonable to me, BUT a student who hasn't completed Alg 1 and Geometry isn't going to have the foundation to do them yet.  I would expect this - not be frustrated by it.

 

Make sure the math curriculum you are using does word problems and make sure you cover graph interpretation as those seem to be more highly promoted in the test now.  Both are VERY important in math as both mean one can take the math learned and actually apply it to real life situations.  I, for one, am pleased to see the changes at this point.  It doesn't really matter in life if one can multiply 7x8.  It matters that one knows what 7x8 means and how to use it.

 

As others have said, I wouldn't stress about Oct's test since your dd will be a 10th grader and this will be the first test with the new format.

 

I would, however, be doing what you are doing and researching what the new format is to ensure the foundation I'm giving my student will match it.  I would expect to soon see prep materials for it - Khan Academy might even come up with something online (they are free).  You need the foundation before the prep though.

 

AND, if you get distressed about it all, so will your dd.  If you take it in stride, she is more likely to as well.

 

Lastly, as others have mentioned, consider the ACT too.  Many students do better on that test and colleges accept either - merit aid included.  There's an undercurrent of gossip that feels part of the reason the SAT/PSAT is changing is because the ACT was becoming more popular both with students and with college admissions (though every college adcom I actually talked with said the two tests were given the same consideration).

[MarkT]

I vote for look at the ACT as well.

[teachermom2834]

Doesn't sound like your daughter is NM potential no matter what curriculum you switch to.  That is ok!!  My ds took it in 9th and 10th and got virtually the same unimpressive score despite having another year of math.  He then took the PLAN (practice ACT) and scored much better so we figured the ACT was a better test for him.  He skipped the PSAT in 11th and hasn't thought about the SAT again.  He recently scored a 30 on the ACT (not tippy top score but still at the 95th percentile I believe) so he is going to be fine. No regrets about bailing on the PSAT/SAT. 

 

My son's weakness is also the math.  With the ACT that is only 1/4 of the score.  Scoring well in the other 3 sections can really compensate for a weaker math score (says the mom of the kid with a 35 English and 24 math). 

 

The PSAT/ National Merit program is not for everyone.  I know several NM scholars but also know some crazy smart kids who didn't get it.  I know kids that have gotten into Ivy League and top tier schools without it.  I know kids who would have qualified in 10th who then did not qualify in 11th.  It is just one scholarship program.  It is good for those who make it and want the schools that give good aid for it but it is not the be all and end all.  It all comes down to just that one test and it works out for some but not for others. Don't get me wrong- I'd be really proud and excited if I had a NM kid but it is really, really okay not to have NM.

 

Do not fret about the PSAT.  Keep providing a solid education and give the ACT a look. 

[cbollin]

She's 9th grade and in Alg 1.   Sounds like she is on track to me. (don't worry that on this forum, there are some who do alg 1 while in diapers.. you're not really behind. that's a reality check on it)

Stop the panicking. Keep pressing on to learn the math, not to deal with test   ((hugs))

 

My oldest, engineering student, did not take PSAT until 10th grade when she had started Alg 2. It was a practice test for her.  11th grade, tried the PSAT knowing she wasn't National Merit strong.  Again, nice little practice test.

as others have said, PSAT is about practice and national merit.  You are looking at 1.5 years down the road for when this is normally taken.  So, you probably shouldn't except it it to a lot of material you have mastered at half way through Alg 1 in 9th.

 

my dd took ACT in 11th grade.  Did not "ace" it.  did well.  There are some in her engineering school who could not start Calc 1 in fall.  They had to take a pre-calc class in college.  They plan summer school.  If they aren't all that panicked, and are in math heavy major, I think your nursing student will come out fine in a few years. It is possible that when she gets to nursing school she might have to take catch up math class in summer before classes begin.  It's ok.

 

My guess is that if you were to look at ACT math right now, you might panic as well.  I know my dd would have when she took Alg 1.

 

 

[Julie of KY]

Take a deep breath - you have not failed her. Keep teaching her math with the best program for you. If Forester is working then I see no reason to change.

I still don't know you daughter's grade, but the only reason to take the PSAT is practice and to qualify for National Merit. There are lots of other ways to get practice and it doesn't sound like you're competing for NM.

 

I agree with the others about looking at the ACT - it might be better suited for your daughter. Most all colleges will take either SAT or ACT.

 

Julie

[cbollin]

Take a deep breath - you have not failed her. Keep teaching her math with the best program for you. If Forester is working then I see no reason to change.

I still don't know you daughter's grade,

 

OP said in subject line 9th grade.  (I'm not on mobile device so the full subject line shows. maybe the subject line is wrapping or cut off and others don't see it????? maybe???)

[HappyGrace]

Okay, thank you for helping me calm down, I'm breathing a little bit easier. Every single post on here so far had something in it that I needed to hear that really helped me understand the situation better, and the personal experiences, advice and support mean so much to me!!

 

The sad thing is, dd is stellar to the point of gifted in humanties type classes, so I hate to see math hold her back from scholarships, etc.

 

Is the ACT truly as well thought of as the SAT by colleges? I thought colleges *required* SAT scores-and even if they don't wouldn't it look funny to not even *have* an SAT score?

 

We will keep plugging along, and meanwhile I want to plug some holes. Any ideas for materials to help her get used to word problems and graph interpretation? (in an incremental fashion, starting from very simple and working into harder ones)  She hasn't done much of either and the word problems especially are a major weakness.

 

One quick question not math related-I'm reading the new SAT doesn't have much vocabulary. Does that mean no more "studying vocab for the SAT", like most SAT test prep has included up til now?

Thanks to all for the posts so far!!!

[elegantlion]

I've always thought the preference for SAT or ACT was more by region. I live in the mid-west and it always seems the ACT is pushed more than SAT, although both are offered. 

 

You might check the colleges she is considering or ones near you to see how they list testing requirements. Around here, every college site I looked at had ACT and SAT scores listed. 

[creekland]

Is the ACT truly as well thought of as the SAT by colleges? I thought colleges *required* SAT scores-and even if they don't wouldn't it look funny to not even *have* an SAT score?

 

We will keep plugging along, and meanwhile I want to plug some holes. Any ideas for materials to help her get used to word problems and graph interpretation? (in an incremental fashion, starting from very simple and working into harder ones)  She hasn't done much of either and the word problems especially are a major weakness.

 

Middle son applied to colleges solely with his ACT. He never took the SAT after missing our state's cut off for the PSAT by a fraction.  He received merit awards everywhere that accepted him (and only had one waitlist from a lottery school).  His friend who works in financial aid at his college told him his merit award was higher than usual for the listing (Dean's Scholarship).

 

And as for word problems, does Forester not have any in its text?  Most math books do.  If not, I recommend doing some google searching and/or checking on Khan to see what they offer.  It'll be a separate google search for graph interpretation.  Traditionally that's been more of a science topic than math.  The two should integrate with graphs IMO - I've integrated the two for years at the public high school where I work - so I'm glad to see that changing.

[wapiti]

Is the ACT truly as well thought of as the SAT by colleges? I thought colleges *required* SAT scores-and even if they don't wouldn't it look funny to not even *have* an SAT score?

 

My understanding is that an SAT preference by east coast schools faded out a long time ago.  Either ACT or SAT will do, even for top colleges.  Later, when you determine which one better suits your student for sure (after having learned the relevant math and tried practice tests for each), you can focus on prep for the specific test.

 

We will keep plugging along, and meanwhile I want to plug some holes. Any ideas for materials to help her get used to word problems and graph interpretation? (in an incremental fashion, starting from very simple and working into harder ones)  She hasn't done much of either and the word problems especially are a major weakness.

 

Foerster *rocks* for word problems.

 

I wonder if your panic has more to do with the extensively-wordy problems of the new SAT.  (I'm not thrilled about it either.)  I would do specific test prep when the time comes.  One book I see mentioned here for strong students is Pwn the SAT.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I've always thought the preference for SAT or ACT was more by region. I live in the mid-west and it always seems the ACT is pushed more than SAT, although both are offered. 

 

You might check the colleges she is considering or ones near you to see how they list testing requirements. Around here, every college site I looked at had ACT and SAT scores listed. 

 

That's what I thought.  I know nothing about the ACT.

[SparklyUnicorn]

A lot of schools have even stopped requiring the scores for admission. 

 

 

[creekland]

A lot of schools have even stopped requiring the scores for admission. 

 

Check with individual schools on this.  It usually doesn't apply to homeschoolers - or at least - hasn't in the past.

[HappyGrace]

We on are the East Coast, and as far as I ever knew, the ACT is more "frowned upon" than the SAT, which is the gold standard. I could be wrong-this is just my layperson's interpretation.

 

Yes, my panic is almost completely over the extensively-wordy math problems of the new SAT. Foerster's word problems are great, but very topic specific to each chapter (therefore, dd learns the formula and does them by rote). I'd love something with a nice mix of various kinds of word problems.

[regentrude]

Is the ACT truly as well thought of as the SAT by colleges? I thought colleges *required* SAT scores-and even if they don't wouldn't it look funny to not even *have* an SAT score?

 

I have not come across any college that did not accept both SAT and ACT. It is more a difference by region which will be more prevalent.

[8filltheheart]

Schools see no difference between the ACT and the SAT. They say either one and they mean either one.

 

As far as Foerster's, if your dd needs a mix,you can assign word problems from previous sections intermixed with the new sections.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Check with individual schools on this.  It usually doesn't apply to homeschoolers - or at least - hasn't in the past.

 

Yeah I can see where they might rely on that more for a homeschooler.

 

I just hope my kids do better on it than I did!

[creekland]

We on are the East Coast, and as far as I ever knew, the ACT is more "frowned upon" than the SAT, which is the gold standard. I could be wrong-this is just my layperson's interpretation.

 

Yes, my panic is almost completely over the extensively-wordy math problems of the new SAT. Foerster's word problems are great, but very topic specific to each chapter (therefore, dd learns the formula and does them by rote). I'd love something with a nice mix of various kinds of word problems.

 

Definitely not the case regarding the ACT/SAT - at least - not anymore.  It could have been that way years ago.  Now even schools like Yale want either the ACT alone or the SAT and subject tests as minimum requirements.

 

Many school districts still offer only one test or the other.  Students may need to travel to other schools to take a test (both signed up for online - not PSAT though with the online bit).  But even then, in our area (previously SAT dominant) that's changing.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Definitely not the case regarding the ACT/SAT - at least - not anymore.  It could have been that way years ago.  Now even schools like Yale want either the ACT alone or the SAT and subject tests as minimum requirements.

 

Many school districts still offer only one test or the other.  Students may need to travel to other schools to take a test (both signed up for online - not PSAT though with the online bit).  But even then, in our area (previously SAT dominant) that's changing.

 

Yeah I was surprised to discover our local high school offers 4 testing dates for the ACT. 

 

And we aren't in ACT land. 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Foerster *rocks* for word problems.

 

I wonder if your panic has more to do with the extensively-wordy problems of the new SAT. (I'm not thrilled about it either.) I would do specific test prep when the time comes. One book I see mentioned here for strong students is Pwn the SAT.

I went and looked at the questions. I'm not sure how the alg 1 questions on the samples are not covered in Foersters. I suspect it is not understanding what material has been covered vs. what topics not covered in terms of the big picture math expected on the PSAT.

[HappyGrace]

8Fill-what did you mean? I didn't understand your last statement. I'm foggy w/ cold meds today, so it's probably clear but I am not getting it.

 

She is only on Chapter 6 of Foerster's, so that's one thing that may be throwing me when looking at the samples. But what is scaring me is that the problems are presented in such an unfamiliar way-very wordy and complicated, mainly stemming from the fact that she can't do word problems, just looks at it and panics and doesn't know what they want. And that is in EASY word problems. She is not analytical at all.

[chiguirre]

 

Should I take her out of Foerster's Algebra and put her in something like Saxon, which is probably better test prep? She cried every day in Saxon 8/7 though, and the Foerster's is working, but I don't see anything like what we're doing so far in Foerster's on the SAT sample questions! I just want her to ace the SATs-they are so important. She will never be good at math but she needs to do well on the SAT for nursing school, her dream. HELPPPPPP

I won't switch from Foerster's to Saxon. I actually bought Foerster to beef up Saxon Alg 1 with more complex word problems. You're already ahead of the game.

 

Either the ACT or the SAT is acceptable. Even Duke TIP (a gifted summer camp program) accepts ACT scores. Most kids take practice tests for both and then focus their prep for the test that they do better on.

 

Don't worry, your dd will be fine. You can start prepping for the reading and writing sections over the summer and then concentrate on math when she's had the coursework. She'll be well prepared by spring of her junior year.

[JanetC]

Your daughter does not need to take the PSAT.  Or the SAT for that matter.  Take a look at the ACT.  It is a much more straightforward test.

 

Yes, but the ACT includes more topics from algebra II and trig, and the new SAT math questions that are related to analyzing graphs and charts are on the ACT as well, but on the ACT they are in the science section.  It's not a slam-dunk decision, take a practice test of each.

 

The College Board is releasing their materials early to Khan Academy to create free test prep resources, so keep an eye over there for new videos.

[8filltheheart]

8Fill-what did you mean? I didn't understand your last statement. I'm foggy w/ cold meds today, so it's probably clear but I am not getting it.

 

She is only on Chapter 6 of Foerster's, so that's one thing that may be throwing me when looking at the samples. But what is scaring me is that the problems are presented in such an unfamiliar way-very wordy and complicated, mainly stemming from the fact that she can't do word problems, just looks at it and panics and doesn't know what they want. And that is in EASY word problems. She is not analytical at all.

That is exactly what I am saying. I wonder if you are able to identify topics she has already covered vs topics she hasn't that students normally cover by fall of 11th grade. I do not think Foersters is the issue.

 

I wondered about your post earlier when you said Foerster's word problems "are great, but very topic specific to each chapter (therefore, dd learns the formula and does them by rote). I'd love something with a nice mix of various kinds of word problems," bc my strong math kids have not been able to learn a formula for setting up the word problems and doing them by rote. I have had 5 kids complete every single word problem in Foerster's alg 1 book, and they have had to think about how to set the majority of them up bc the problems do not all follow the same set up strategy. Some of them overlap, but not enough to qualify for "formula and rote" solving. His problems require understanding the concepts in order to apply them.

 

How many word problems is she doing in each section? Is she setting up the problems independently? Really, the only way to be able to solve word problems is to be able read them in order to know how to set them up and what is required to solve.

 

My dd is using Sullivan's precal right now with DO's videos and she can't stand how all of Sullivan's problems use the exact same thing over and over and she goes searching for problems to make sure she understand what she is doing. She has commented more than once that its problems are not like Foerster's (which she loved bc it meant she knew she understood the concepts when she could solve the problems.)

[Mom22ns]

You have already heard all of this, but I'm going to say it one more time, just to help you breathe. 

 

First, the PSAT is for 11th graders. She isn't supposed to be ready for it in 9th grade. If you want her to have a practice year because you thing she is National Merit material, make it next year.

 

Second, you are doing Foersters Algebra. It is widely known as having the best and most challenging word problems of any math curriculum on the market. Do not switch, finish.

 

Calm your panic. She isn't ready because she isn't supposed to be ready. Of course there are kids who took Algebra when they were 10 and Calculus in 8th grade and they got perfect scores on the math section of the SAT when they were freshman. There is nothing you can do about that and stop asking your dd to be someone she isn't.

 

Finally, there are no longer any colleges where the ACT is not just as accepted as the SAT. However, in truth, the SAT covers math through Algebra 2 and the ACT includes some trig. Since she will be in Algebra 2 as an 11th grader (when she will be taking the ACT/SAT) it is hard to say which one will be better for her, the one with the more straight forward problems that reach a higher level of math or the one with the more complex word problems. Don't worry about that now. Let her try practice tests of both - 2 years from now! 

 

What you need to do now is stay the course. Have faith in the materials you are using. If she is understanding and able to complete Foersters successfully, she is doing just fine. Be patient. Don't expect a 9th grader to look like an 11th grader. A few 9th graders do test better than the average 11th grader, but most don't. It isn't at all indicative of how she will do when the time comes. 

 

Patience. Deep breaths. You haven't failed and neither has she. You're just getting started.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah I can not recall when I took the PSAT, but I doubt it was in 9th.  Here the majority of students take algebra in 9th.  They are trying to remedy that, but as of now they don't even offer algebra 1 in all schools with an 8th grade here. 

[Lanny]

For certain students, Hispanic, African-American, and others, there are scholarship opportunities available to those who take the PSAT.. My DD was born in Colombia, so she can compete  for the Hispanic scholarships when she takes the PSAT.

 

https://www.collegeboard.org/psat-nmsqt/scores/using-results/scholarships-recognition

 

OP the most important thing is for your DD to eventually be very solid with her understanding of Algebra 1.  

[Reefgazer]

Do you happen to know if kids who take a practice ACT and SAT are obligated to turn those scores over to colleges they apply to? It's been a long time since I took those tests and I can't remember if I was required to turn over the scores, but I don't think I was required to do thst. Maybe but "practice test" you just meant practice at home, and not sit for the actual test as a warm-up.

 

You have already heard all of this, but I'm going to say it one more time, just to help you breathe.

 

First, the PSAT is for 11th graders. She isn't supposed to be ready for it in 9th grade. If you want her to have a practice year because you thing she is National Merit material, make it next year.

 

Second, you are doing Foersters Algebra. It is widely known as having the best and most challenging word problems of any math curriculum on the market. Do not switch, finish.

 

Calm your panic. She isn't ready because she isn't supposed to be ready. Of course there are kids who took Algebra when they were 10 and Calculus in 8th grade and they got perfect scores on the math section of the SAT when they were freshman. There is nothing you can do about that and stop asking your dd to be someone she isn't.

 

Finally, there are no longer any colleges where the ACT is not just as accepted as the SAT. However, in truth, the SAT covers math through Algebra 2 and the ACT includes some trig. Since she will be in Algebra 2 as an 11th grader (when she will be taking the ACT/SAT) it is hard to say which one will be better for her, the one with the more straight forward problems that reach a higher level of math or the one with the more complex word problems. Don't worry about that now. Let her try practice tests of both - 2 years from now!

 

What you need to do now is stay the course. Have faith in the materials you are using. If she is understanding and able to complete Foersters successfully, she is doing just fine. Be patient. Don't expect a 9th grader to look like an 11th grader. A few 9th graders do test better than the average 11th grader, but most don't. It isn't at all indicative of how she will do when the time comes.

 

Patience. Deep breaths. You haven't failed and neither has she. You're just getting started.

[Penguin]

reefgazer, it depends on the college. A lot of schools use "score choice" allowing you to pick which scores to send. Even many top schools allow this, but some do not. Some want every official test score.

 

Google " colleges that use score choice" and "colleges that don't use score choice" you want to lose a few hours of your life :)

[8filltheheart]

You do not have to submit PSAT or PLAN scores to colleges.  But, the PSAT, while similar to the SAT, is not identical to it.  (I don't know anything about PLAN.) There are plenty of purchasable practice tests which you can do at home to help prepare for both the SAT and the ACT.

 

I have only had 1 of my kids take the PSAT so far.  I knew the others would not score high enough to bother.  It is really only worthwhile if they will score high enough for NMF and the cut-offs for that status are state dependent.   They might qualify in one state, but not in another.  State of residence is the determining factor.

[Penguin]

Oh, oops I read too fast. Of course 8 is right about submitting PSAT scores. I was thinking about actual SAT tests or ACT tests taken as "practice" in the early years. Or taken yearly to satisfy a standardized test requirement.

 

My older boys went to a private high school. Everyone took the PSAT starting in 9th grade. The only other reason I can think of for taking it would be to try for a qualifying score for a special program or course.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Even for kids who aren't in range of NMS the PSAT can have value. It is a shorter, less expensive practice version of the SAT under similar test conditions (unfamiliar school, ID check, few breaks, other students etc. ).

 

If I had a student who was likely to take difficulties too much to heart, I would hesitate. But for my older kids it was helpful. They started taking the PSAT as 9th graders and the SAT was pretty comfortable when they took it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My opinion of Score Choice was that it mostly benefited CB because they charge for it.

 

There is a long document on the CB site that has every school's score policy. The vast majority super score (best section) or take the best sitting. But usually these colleges want to still see all scores.

 

CB says in their score choice description that students should still make sure they follow college policies.

 

I pretty much see it as CB getting paid to do what most schools are going to do anyway just as part of the application review.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

For the OP, it may be worth signing up for the SAT question of the day. (There used to be an email; there is also an app.) Try to solve these if possible. Many of the samples are more about reasoning than calculation. The Question of the Day usually has an explanation of why the question is right or wrong. I would expect the QOD to change to the revised format in the next several months.

 

And I agree that it's not a thing to panic about if the student is just starting high school. There is a lot of math still to learn.

[Nan in Mass]

I'm mostly going to repeat what everybody else is saying, but in this case, I think repeating is going to help you. : )

 

You can't possibly be the worst homeschooling mother.  Your daughter is doing well in something.  A large, important something. : )  You are trying to prepare her properly for her dreams.  You haven't just given up on math.  You switched away from Saxon because it was making your daughter cry.  You picked a reputable algebra program and your daughter is plugging through it at a reasonable rate.  You aren't skipping the word problems even though you hate them.  And, as if that weren't enough, you have arranged for some nice solid review so she can't forget her basic math skills, even though you both wish you could forget that there is such a thing.  You've allowed her to go at a pace that gives her some chance of actually understanding the math she is learning.  All good things.

 

Let's just run a worst-case scenario.  Let's say she completely bombs any standardized testing she takes but she still wants to go to nursing school.  She can start at a community college.  Ours works like this: To get into a degree program at our community college, you have to have a high school diploma or GED and take a placement test in reading, writing, and math.  Let's say she can't pass the arithmetic part of the placement test.  In that case, she can sign up for the remedial math classes.  These begin with arithmetic and work their way up through algebra, at which point, you can start taking math classes for college credit.  Meanwhile (at least at our cc), she can start taking some of her basic classes, like Composition 1.  She could sign up for an allied health program or a liberal arts associates degree.  When she has enough math, she can take the TEAS test, the standardized test one takes for entrance to nursing programs, and apply to the community college's LP nursing program.  The TEAS test has sections on math, science, and language arts.  It is a test of high school skills in these subjects.  If she feels unprepared for the science part, she can take, for college credit, the introductory science classes - intro bio and intro chem, once she has passed a certain portion of the community college math placement exam.  Once she has graduated from the communmity college, she can transfer to a state college's four-year RN nursing program.  There are people at our community college who have done exactly that, starting with the remedial classes.  This doesn't mean that she can get away with not understanding algebra or how to interpret a graph, but it does mean that someone else can teach her, later on, when she may be more ready to understand.  This probably isn't going to happen to your daughter, but it shows that you could be a horrible homeschooling mother and your daughter could STILL become a nurse.  It isn't all up to you.  A good bit is up to HER.

 

I live right smack in the middle of SAT territory.  Our public high school, which oldest went to, is rated one of the best in the country and prides itself on sending almost every single student to college, many to ivy league schools.  The guidance counselor there suggested that oldest take the ACT after she saw his perfectly respectable SAT scores, saying she thought he would probably do better with that test.  We didn't bother, but if our high school is using the ACT, I think you can do it safely. : )

 

Don't confuse the SAT with the SAT2s.  The SAT2s are the old achievement tests that we took in high school, the subject tests.  There is a lot of chat here on the boards about some colleges requiring SAT2s (it is usually written SAT II but I don't want you to miss the 2 part).  Some do, especially from homeschoolers.  It has nothing to do with the SAT.  You could, in that case, take the ACT and take SAT2s in French, Literature, and History.  If they want a math and a science, they will say so.  I found many colleges that said homeschoolers must EITHER take the ACT or the SAT and three SAT2s.  Youngest (homeschooled all the way through high school) didn't take them and got into engineering school in three state schools in three different New England states and three private schools, all with scholarships.  He did have some community college classes.  He submitted only his SAT scores.

 

Lastly - a suggestion about the word problems.  The standard way to do word problems is:

 

1 - Write down the information you are given.  (These are your "givens".)

2- Write down what information you are looking for.  (These are your "unknowns".)

3 - Assign variable names to your givens and unknowns.

4 - Draw a picture or diagram or chart, if possible.

5 - Find a path to get from your givens to your unknowns.

6 - Follow the path, making sure that you convert any measurement units to be the same when used in the same formula.

7 - Convert the answer to the units asked for in the original question.

8 - Idiot-check your answer.  (Does the answer make sense?  If the bird is flying 10,000 mph, you should redo the problem.)

 

The "path" is a way to link the givens and the unknowns.  In a simple word problem, it will be one formula.  In a more complicated word problem, you may have to use one formula to get a new value for something that you can then use in another formula to get the unknown.  You are looking for links between your givens and your unknowns.  If you it seems like you are missing information, see if it is something that you can figure out using common sense.  For instance, if it involves water and temperatures, the problem might not tell you that water freezes at 32 degrees.  It might expect you to be able to figure that out.  Or if it involves someone taking a short cut down the diagonal part of a right triangle, it might not tell you the Pythagorian theorum.  You have to think.  If the problems are simple, then they will probably just involve converting any measurments to the same units and plugging them into a common formula and then converting the measurements back into the units asked for, but if the problem is more difficult, it will involve multiple steps and links and you really have to think.  Often, the trick is to draw a good picture or chart so you can see your givens and unknowns and how they are related.  Sometimes, it is helpful to think about what other problems work like this.  Or to simplify the problem, figure out how to solve the simple problem, and then use the same method on your complicated problem.

 

It is important not to let your daughter just give the answer.  Make her write out her givens, assign variables, draw a picture, write out any conversions, and write out any formulas she uses before she substitutes in the numbers.  If she gets in the habit of doing this with the easy problems, she will automatically do it for the harder problems that can't be solved unless one does this.

 

It is also important that she understand how to solve any of the problems that she misses.  If the math book is good, she won't be able to solve every single word problem.  Some of the problems are going to be too hard.  If she studies the hard problems until she can solve them herself, she will improve.  If she just ignores the problems she couldn't solve, she won't learn to solve harder problems.  Your average student learns to solve word problems by seeing lots of word problems solved and following along.

 

HTH

Nan

 

[FaithManor]

My dd was accepted to 12 universities and LAC's all in the top 120 in the nation and all with merit aid. Every one of them. She has graduated from the University of Michigan with a chemistry degree and all of that on the ACT only and a couple of AP's. The ACT is local, we have to travel a long ways to get the SAT. This is because the Midwest tends to lean ACT.

 

Ds was admitted to Alma College, Northern Michigan, Western Michigan, and University of Michigan on the ACT and two AP's. Merit aid, significant aid, at all of them.

 

Middle ds will take the ACT only unless he decides to apply to Cornell, and then he will also take the SAT.

 

Youngest is hard to tell because his current short list is quite varied...Michigan Tech, U of MI, U of Alabama, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, and Purdue.

 

Don't worry. You haven't failed her. My current senior and my married college grad did not choose to compete for NMF and they have done quite well with merit aid and acceptances. Just keep chugging away at creating solid algebra skills because they are the key to future mathematics. Better to go slower and nail it, then rush and have spotty skills and little self-confidence.

[readinmom]

I assume that you are doing the PSAT for merit scholarship consideration?  If not, run to the ACT.  

 

If you are going with the PSAT route, I recommend that you wait for the testing to commence, and then wait for the study guides to come out.  This test is new, it's going to be a learning curve for everyone involved.  By waiting for the study guides, your dd can then have real problems/real solutions to practice with.  

 

And breathe!  One test does not make or break your lives.  Be strong and confident in what your dd has learned.  

 

[HappyGrace]

I want to thank you all, from the bottom of my heart, for taking the time to address my concerns. It means so much to me, and I really feel so much better about it, knowing that we DO have time to get her ready!

 

Also, 8Fill-I wanted to mention regarding Foerster's word problems-I know exactly what you mean, and I can't explain it-but it is like in a section of word problems, she sees what needs to be done in one, and applies it to the others in that section, kind of as a formula. I'm looking at 2.8 as an example-she sees in that section how to go about setting them up, and knows the other ones in that section are similar. Now, if I randomly went back and gave her one of those problems again, even an identical problem that she already did, she would look at it blankly because by now she has forgotten the "formula" she was using to solve that "type" of word problem. Or if I mixed up a bunch of word problem "types", even ones she has done already, she wouldn't be able to do them bcuz she they are all mixed up and not following their "type" of problem like they were when they were each in their own section. KWIM? (Note: she does all the word problems in every section-sometimes we may skip one if it is too similar to the very next problem.)

 

I do love Foerster's word problems-the step by step instructions he gives (write the definition of x, then write an expression...) have made them the first word problems she has been able to do!

[VANURSEPRAC]

I would just like to add: I did not graduate from high school, I made a C in every class in 9th grade, an F in every class in 10th grade then dropped out.

I got my GED at 21. When I was 26 I went to CC and took 3 semesters of remedial math in order to take stats for nursing school. I took all the perquisites for nursing school. I then applied and was accepted into a non direct BSN program. 5 years after graduating I went to NP school. I have an MSN as Acute Care NP and Family NP.

 

I understand the need for merit and the importance of a great SAT or ACT. But there other ways of getting into nursing school and achieving your dreams.

GED to MSN is probably not very common, but I am so glad I did it.

[creekland]

 

Also, 8Fill-I wanted to mention regarding Foerster's word problems-I know exactly what you mean, and I can't explain it-but it is like in a section of word problems, she sees what needs to be done in one, and applies it to the others in that section, kind of as a formula. I'm looking at 2.8 as an example-she sees in that section how to go about setting them up, and knows the other ones in that section are similar. Now, if I randomly went back and gave her one of those problems again, even an identical problem that she already did, she would look at it blankly because by now she has forgotten the "formula" she was using to solve that "type" of word problem. Or if I mixed up a bunch of word problem "types", even ones she has done already, she wouldn't be able to do them bcuz she they are all mixed up and not following their "type" of problem like they were when they were each in their own section. KWIM? 

 

It sounds like she is memorizing the math rather than having a clear comprehension of what she is doing.  This will be a problem in later math when she needs to know it all and figure out what to use when.

 

It's probably wise to start mixing up some problems now - not enough to cause her to seize up and think she's awful at math though.  Explain to her what's going on (it really does help some kids to know what's going on). Draw pictures - they don't have to be artistic.  If she doesn't know what to do for one (or two), then have her go back to relearn it.  After relearning herself, have her teach it to you.  If she's just saying "Put x here and divide by 2" (or similar), have her explain to you what x is and why she has chosen to divide by 2.  Make sure she knows where she is starting and what her goal is (each step and concept for each).

[Nan in Mass]

I would just like to add: I did not graduate from high school, I made a C in every class in 9th grade, an F in every class in 10th grade then dropped out.

I got my GED at 21. When I was 26 I went to CC and took 3 semesters of remedial math in order to take stats for nursing school. I took all the perquisites for nursing school. I then applied and was accepted into a non direct BSN program. 5 years after graduating I went to NP school. I have an MSN as Acute Care NP and Family NP.

 

I understand the need for merit and the importance of a great SAT or ACT. But there other ways of getting into nursing school and achieving your dreams.

GED to MSN is probably not very common, but I am so glad I did it.

: )

 

Nan

[regentrude]

it-but it is like in a section of word problems, she sees what needs to be done in one, and applies it to the others in that section, kind of as a formula. I'm looking at 2.8 as an example-she sees in that section how to go about setting them up, and knows the other ones in that section are similar. Now, if I randomly went back and gave her one of those problems again, even an identical problem that she already did, she would look at it blankly because by now she has forgotten the "formula" she was using to solve that "type" of word problem. Or if I mixed up a bunch of word problem "types", even ones she has done already, she wouldn't be able to do them bcuz she they are all mixed up and not following their "type" of problem like they were when they were each in their own section. KWIM? (Note: she does all the word problems in every section-sometimes we may skip one if it is too similar to the very next problem.)

 

I do love Foerster's word problems-the step by step instructions he gives (write the definition of x, then write an expression...) have made them the first word problems she has been able to do!

 

She is trying to solve those by memorization and pattern matching. You need to stop this now.

Have her work the problem on a whiteboard and have her explain to you WHY she is doing every.single.step. She needs to talk about math. Explaining a problem is the best way to really understand what is going on (and the best way to check whether this understanding is there).

 

Currently, she is memorizing a procedure, but does not have a conceptual understanding why the procedure works. It is impossible to learn math this way.

[MBM]

The PSAT is not a bad test to take because it can lead to scholarships and more -- full tuition, generous stipends for room/board and travel, and free computers. The process to get those scholarships is a bit complicated, though, and involves more than just taking the PSAT.

 

PLAN is a pre-ACT test used to help gauge how a student will do on the ACT. It covers English, Math, Reading and Science and is taken in 10th grade. I don't know if it's possible to take it in 9th grade.

 

http://www.act.org/path/parent/tests/plan.html

 

Regarding the ACT, I'd recommend reading how to take the Science section of the ACT. Some places suggest doing certain problems first and looking for key bits of information.

 

Some universities allow prospective applicants to superscore the SAT and ACT. That means the student may submit the highest score from each section of the SAT test he took. So if he took it two times, he may submit the highest score from each section. You can find out which universities superscore by doing a search on Google BUT verify with the university to make sure it's true. Here's one site listing who superscores the ACT.

 

http://www.freetestprep.com/blog/resources/list-of-colleges-and-universities-that-superscore-the-act-test/