Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 http://medicalkidnap.com/2015/02/11/breastfeeding-mother-arrested-and-children-taken-away-by-force-the-parents-side-of-the-story/ As, otherwise it's a shocker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/bellingham/2015/02/05/missing-bellingham-parents-spotted-in-california/22919021/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 It says there that the twins were under weight. I think that was disputed in the other article. And it says she failed giving medical treatments, but she was using natural therapies. I know the other case with the 'birth certificate and smacking the baby/ toddler' needs intervention, but not convinced *yet* that this one did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 It says there that the twins were under weight. I think that was disputed in the other article. And it says she failed giving medical treatments, but she was using natural therapies. I know the other case with the 'birth certificate and smacking the baby/ toddler' needs intervention, but not convinced *yet* that this one did. Maybe I'm reading too much into the stories in the link that Jean posted, but I got the impression that the parents were having violent fights that required "repeated" police intervention. I can understand why the authorities may have been worried about the safety of the children if that is the case. It appears that the mom is one tough cookie if she went so far as to head-butt a police officer and kick a deputy when they tried to arrest her. I tend to think there is a lot more to this story than a nice Christian couple having their children torn from their home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Maybe I'm reading too much into the stories in the link that Jean posted, but I got the impression that the parents were having violent fights that required "repeated" police intervention. I can understand why the authorities may have been worried about the safety of the children if that is the case. It appears that the mom is one tough cookie if she went so far as to head-butt a police officer and kick a deputy when they tried to arrest her. I tend to think there is a lot more to this story than a nice Christian couple having their children torn from their home. Lol... Okay, I read the one I linked first, and then thought that she was angry at the police for ripping the baby off her breast etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 This case has been discussed exhaustively: there is definitely much more to the story than the medicalkidnap article. There were several articles in the local newspaper, and photos of the children-- the baby definitely looked thin and sad-- not how you want a happy baby to look Local CPS stated that home birth is not a risk factor they consider. [i've actually seen the local CPS in action before, and they impressed me as being reasonable-- overall.] What was problematic for this family was a violent and unstable home. The medicalkidnap article is a classic case for "there must be more to the story." I almost always say this now whenever I read something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 It says there that the twins were under weight. I think that was disputed in the other article. And it says she failed giving medical treatments, but she was using natural therapies. I know the other case with the 'birth certificate and smacking the baby/ toddler' needs intervention, but not convinced *yet* that this one did. If the "natural therapies" were actually woomeister BS treatments then, no, the babes were not receiving medical care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Hope so! I just get worried that things like homeschooling, home birthing, and using natural therapies will one day be viewed as being weird, and labelled as abuse etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Jean's link gave me a start because the mom is a perfect doppelgänger of a fellow alum of my high school. I had to read it to make sure she wasn't the same person. Thankfully she is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 If the "natural therapies" were actually woomeister BS treatments then, no, the babes were not receiving medical care. So using coconut and calandula ointment for eczema, and olive oil for ear infection is not a valid choice anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Jean's link gave me a start because the mom is a perfect doppelgänger of a fellow alum of my high school. I had to read it to make sure she wasn't the same person. Thankfully she is not. Phew!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 There is always more to any story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 So using coconut and calandula ointment for eczema, and olive oil for ear infection is not a valid choice anymore? In some cases, no. I am not certain that the nutter in that article was even doing that much. I find it most amusing you link a site called "Medical Kidnap" and then ponder if there is more to the story. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Jasper, this is a fairly high naturopathic medicine area. They are not out for people using normal naturopathic remedies. The link I gave is for one of our local news stations and their coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 My eyes went exactly where Cat's did. Repeated police presence and interactions at the home. That indicates noise complaints, nuisance complaints or possible DV. I live in this state. My niece and nephew at times probably should have been removed by CPS. It is not usually the case that CPS does too much here. It is far more common that they do too little. I know a lot of people who home birth, use alternative and complementary medicine here. My own primary care doc is an ND. That's not getting CPS attention here. It's a red herring. ETA- also, before they drove off to California, the kids were returned to the parents and the parents were told to comply with CPS assistance. That is likely home visits and some type of parenting support or other classes. Anger management classes are commonly ordered if there are a lot of police reports of domestic disturbances. The parents didn't have to run to keep their kids, they just didn't want to cooperate with CPS. I've seen first hand how these classes can improve things for families and kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Jasper, this is a fairly high naturopathic medicine area. They are not out for people using normal naturopathic remedies. The link I gave is for one of our local news stations and their coverage. Seriously. We have alternative treatment insurance parity here and I have interacted with many MDs who work with and refer to various NDs. One of the largest schools for natural medicine is located here. This is not fringe here in the slightest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 An unassisted homebirth in a higher-risk circumstance (twins) is also not mainstream even for the crunchy crowd. This looks like it could be anything from DV to obnoxious neighbors who call the cops every time a baby cries. DV being the likeliest main issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 An unassisted homebirth in a higher-risk circumstance (twins) is also not mainstream even for the crunchy crowd. This looks like it could be anything from DV to obnoxious neighbors who call the cops every time a baby cries. DV being the likeliest main issue. According to one of the articles, it was the mom herself who kept calling the police on her dh when they got into fights, so I think she may have inadvertantly brought the problem on herself. I feel sorry for the children if the parents' relationship is so dysfunctional that repeated calls for police intervention are necessary. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 This link is from their hometown newspaper and addresses the judge's decision a couple days later. http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2014/12/05/4012570/court-return-rengo-children-to.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 This link is from their hometown newspaper and addresses the judge's decision a couple days later. http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2014/12/05/4012570/court-return-rengo-children-to.html Holy cow. 21 police calls??? :svengo: After reading that article, I am even more convinced that CPS did the right thing. The judge sounded like a reasonable and caring person, but the situation in that apartment sounds very dysfunctional. I hope the parents are able to get the help they need, as there were a lot of red flags in that article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Jasper, this is a fairly high naturopathic medicine area. They are not out for people using normal naturopathic remedies. The link I gave is for one of our local news stations and their coverage. Okay, good to know. I'll check it out- thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 In some cases, no. I am not certain that the nutter in that article was even doing that much. I find it most amusing you link a site called "Medical Kidnap" and then ponder if there is more to the story. lol It was sent to me via an email link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Holy cow. 21 police calls??? :svengo: After reading that article, I am even more convinced that CPS did the right thing. The judge sounded like a reasonable and caring person, but the situation in that apartment sounds very dysfunctional. I hope the parents are able to get the help they need, as there were a lot of red flags in that article. Though to be fair the majority were done before children were born. But it still screams dysfunctional relationship. Adding babies to that mix is never a good idea. Hopefully they get their lives sorted out real soon for the sakes of their dc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Though to be fair the majority were done before children were born. Hopefully they get their lives sorted out real soon for the sakes of their dc! I think it definitely shows a pattern of dysfunction, though. Whether or not they have children, most people aren't making a dozen calls (or even more in this case) to the police and reporting that they are fighting with their dh and need police intervention to break it up. It also doesn't appear that their situation changed much since the kids were born, as the mom was still calling the police and the dh wasn't addressing his anger management issues. If anything, their life was probably even more stressful after the kids were born, as they were living with such young children in a one-bedroom apartment they were sharing with the dh's father. (I know the parents aren't married, but it's easier to call the guy the dh instead of referring to him as the kids' father.) I hope they get their lives straightened out, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Just feeling sorry for the kids - it's not good for them either way. It's not clear to me why they had their kids taken because they drove out of state. I don't like the idea that CPS gets to decide who drives where. Even having read the above links, I don't see the justification for that. It seems they were gone out of state for 1 day before CPS had a fit about it. These are their own kids, right? Other than the twins' weight (which could be because they were twins and born early), I didn't see any reports of mistreatment - yet. But on the other hand, this couple does sound like a mess. And recently, not far from me, a guy killed his baby accidentally, by throwing a coffee mug at his wife and missing. Maybe they shouldn't have had their kid at home. I could see it being a tough call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 I think it definitely shows a pattern of dysfunction, though. Whether or not they have children, most people aren't making a dozen calls (or even more in this case) to the police and reporting that they are fighting with their dh and need police intervention to break it up. It also doesn't appear that their situation changed much since the kids were born, as the mom was still calling the police and the dh wasn't addressing his anger management issues. If anything, their life was probably even more stressful after the kids were born, as they were living with such young children in a one-bedroom apartment they were sharing with the dh's father. (I know the parents aren't married, but it's easier to call the guy the dh instead of referring to him as the kids' father.) I hope they get their lives straightened out, too. Ahhh... you got in before I clarified further. I edited thinking I had time..... I hate that about using a phone, as I have lots of thoughts but find it hard to get it down right first time etc... and then I edited to make it clearer, but it's sometimes too late. :-D Yes, agreeing with you there- very dysfunctional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 They were under supervision so that had to remain where they could be checked on. That seems entirely reasonable. They may not have been told that but what did they think would happen when the social workers made one of their impromptu visits and they weren't there that day or the next etc? 3 kids under one, a volatile couple and the kid's grandad in a one bedroom apartment - anyone would be stressed. I think it is irresponsible not to have maternity care but many don't. I do think a case could have been made if one of the twins died at birth. But they didn't. My oldest was a failure to thrive baby but when he got a hang of feeding and my milk supply improved his weight rocketed so I am not sure the weight gain in care can be blamed on overfeeding formula - is it possible to overfeed an infant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 is it possible to overfeed an infant? ---------------------------------------------- I don't think you can with breastfeeding, but I think that you could with formula. As it could be made richer, more concentrated than it's meant to etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Jasperstone, on 15 Feb 2015 - 02:01 AM, said: is it possible to overfeed an infant? ---------------------------------------------- I don't think you can with breastfeeding, but I think that you could with formula. As it could be made richer, more concentrated than it's meant to etc... I exclusively bf until six months. my oldest was a pudgy baby. another would throw up if I allowed him to nurse as much as he wanted. (so I did have to control how much he nursed.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Ahhh... you got in before I clarified further. I edited thinking I had time..... I hate that about using a phone, as I have lots of thoughts but find it hard to get it down right first time etc... and then I edited to make it clearer, but it's sometimes too late. :-D Yes, agreeing with you there- very dysfunctional. I know exactly what you mean -- it happens to me all the time! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 They didn't decide to leave town until they had posted to a site where people who don't know the whole story but are suspicious of all things government, advised them to run. Of course, CPS got the police involved esp. when they were receiving financial help in order to leave in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 An unassisted homebirth in a higher-risk circumstance (twins) is also not mainstream even for the crunchy crowd. Um... don't be so sure about that... (says the woman who planned a homebirth for her twins...) The multiples element does make me feel for them. it's higher risk, but the stuff the medical establishment does for multiples is pretty messed up. Basically they plan for you to give birth way too early and shove the babies in the NICU with as many interventions as possible. But the best medical research (see Barbara Luke's book...) shows it's really about nutrition in pregnancy. Multiples mamas need protein out the wazoo. And as for their size - 1% on the charts is not an unusual outcome for twins at all. Like, that in and of itself doesn't say they weren't doing everything right for their kids. And some doctors are still of the belief that you can't breastfeed twins and have them grow. That's not true though. It's just not. So there are a lot of biases there that make me sympathize with them offhand. The police calls though... I mean, it does sound like this family needed some intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Um... don't be so sure about that... (says the woman who planned a homebirth for her twins...) The multiples element does make me feel for them. it's higher risk, but the stuff the medical establishment does for multiples is pretty messed up. Basically they plan for you to give birth way too early and shove the babies in the NICU with as many interventions as possible. But the best medical research (see Barbara Luke's book...) shows it's really about nutrition in pregnancy. Multiples mamas need protein out the wazoo. And as for their size - 1% on the charts is not an unusual outcome for twins at all. Like, that in and of itself doesn't say they weren't doing everything right for their kids. And some doctors are still of the belief that you can't breastfeed twins and have them grow. That's not true though. It's just not. So there are a lot of biases there that make me sympathize with them offhand. The police calls though... I mean, it does sound like this family needed some intervention. I didn't say it was never a rational choice. Just that it's on the fringe even in alternative circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I didn't say it was never a rational choice. Just that it's on the fringe even in alternative circles. I know, but I know enough people in our crunchy circle that decided to homebirth twins that I'm not sure if that's true that it's really fringe. I mean, it's really fringe overall, but our crunchy circle doctor didn't blink when we told her what we planned. And we've met a number of people who made a similar choice in our crunchy circles. It doesn't feel fringe here that we decided that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btervet Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I know, but I know enough people in our crunchy circle that decided to homebirth twins that I'm not sure if that's true that it's really fringe. I mean, it's really fringe overall, but our crunchy circle doctor didn't blink when we told her what we planned. And we've met a number of people who made a similar choice in our crunchy circles. It doesn't feel fringe here that we decided that. There's was an *unassisted* homebirth. I don't know of any twin births that were unassisted, even in the very crunchy area I am in. I'd consider that pretty fringe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 There's was an *unassisted* homebirth. I don't know of any twin births that were unassisted, even in the very crunchy area I am in. I'd consider that pretty fringe. Ah, I missed that it was unassisted. Like I said, I do think this family maybe needed an intervention. I hope that since they got their kids back, CPS is helping support them in what was obviously a really crazy living situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I wish that the judge had mandated that the father of the twins be evaluated for his anger issues. There is strong genetic possibility that the young man inherited bipolar disorder from his own father. Either ruling out the illness, or detecting its presence, would provide the man with better help than anger management training by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Verge said they could continue to provide homeopathic care for their children but also must consult a pediatrician. And the twins must continue to gain weight, he said, noting they were in the 1 percentile for their age when they were weighed on Nov. 8. I'd say they needed help learning to parent which is what the judge was trying to accomplish and I'm pretty conservative in these matters. This quote though does concern me. I have 4 FTT babies, with a couple more under 10%. Sarah, Ella, and Liz were under the 5% mark and Cate is in the 1%. Some families make small babies and that needs to be accounted for. The pediatrician with Elizabeth ran 1,000 tests (I'm being dramatic) and thought (literally said this) that he thought she might have some very serious disease, sent her for colonoscopy, and had her put on a special formula for AIDS/Cancer babies. I kid you not. Truth is that the medical world is wholly unfamiliar with breastfed babies in the current culture and didn't even have breastfed infant charts, let alone twin bf infants. They are grossly different. William and Rebecca were supplemented heavily and/or entirely bottle fed and their weights were unbelievably different than their breastfed sibs. However, the bf babies thrived, using milestones as a marker, despite their small size/weight. Here's the rub - I believe in homebirths, natural medicine, breastfeeding, parental rights. BUT, if I were under the lens, in order to KEEP MY CHILDREN, you can bet I'd have gotten those court ordered anger management classes, I wouldn't be living with Dad who is off meds and bi-polar in a one bedroom apartment with my precious babies, and I wouldn't be calling the cops hoping they were good at working out arguments. (Insert eyebrow raised.) Read more here: http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2014/12/05/4012570_court-return-rengo-children-to.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 If this weren't about child welfare I'd be laughing so hard right now. Oh, what can we expect of Bellingham and Battle Ground? I have lived in both of those cities. In fact, I was even the underweight child of a breastfeeding mom in one of those cities. As an adult, in the same area... I had a home birth. I breastfed. This cannot be about those things. People do so, so much weirder here. I am pretty sure calls to the cops re: domestic violence + refusal to supplement and an antagonistic attitude towards authority when authority was concerned about the health of the kids, were more likely the deciding factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Another one: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/christianity/home-birthing-christian-couple-defies-court-takes-kids-out-state-video Officials from Child Protective Services (CPS) then showed up to check on the twins, and found that the couple's first baby, now 10 months old, had eczema. Carey and Rengo said they treated the eczema with probiotics and coconut oil, but CPS said they needed to use steroid creams. In his defiant response, Rengo cited his Christian authority of the household, which was given to him by God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 One other thing that jumped out at me: she head butted a cop. I'm not meek. If a cop grabbed my toddler, I would likely scream, maybe kick, definitely grab for my little one, but head butting isn't something that usually comes naturally to people unless they are pretty well-versed in street fighting techniques. It doesn't really prove anything (she could have taken a self defense class), but when you are panicking you tend to grab what comes naturally, what you've done before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I have no idea what I would do to a cop if he grabbed my kids. However, it did cross my mind that in the US cops have guns and fighting them without a means of escape, while my child was there, would be an extremely bad idea. I cannot believe it was about eczema unless it had gotten very, very bad--like the child was at risk for infection. And at that point, you're not trying steroidal creams? Why the heck not?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I cannot believe it was about eczema unless it had gotten very, very bad--like the child was at risk for infection. And at that point, you're not trying steroidal creams? Why the heck not?!? Because those steroidal creams are going to POISON my precious and unique snowflake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Because those steroidal creams are going to POISON my precious and unique snowflake. Or give him big muscles and 'roid rage. (I don't believe this by the way, but some just hear "steroid cream" and equate that with what they've heard sports figures taking.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 is it possible to overfeed an infant?----------------------------------------------I don't think you can with breastfeeding, but I think that you could with formula. As it could be made richer, more concentrated than it's meant to etc... You are quite correct. In fact, this is a known risk factor in some impoverished areas around the globe (including in the US), where well-meaning but uneducated parents and caregivers assume that since this ratio of formula to water is good, a higher ratio must be better... especially if last week they had to water down the formula because they didn't have enough. This can leave an infant dehydrated or, worse, with a vitamin overdose. Obviously if you just do it by a little out of tiredness once or twice it's not a huge problem, but if you do this frequently it can add up. (You can also overfeed an infant with formula simply because the bottle doesn't work like the breast, and formula or breastmilk keeps dripping out regardless of whether or not your infant is actively suckling.) Watering down the formula is much more common (because water is free or cheap, and formula ain't) and also risky. And while breastfeeding is technically free, the fact is that if you're in a situation where you may need to stretch food supplies, there's a non-zero chance that you don't have the resources to breastfeed. No place or time to pump at work, no paid maternity leave (Australia has the US beat, hands down, but you still only offer 4 months of paid maternity leave at minimum wage - though, again, your minimum wage is higher than ours), perhaps no good education on the options. The truth is that choosing to breastfeed has real costs in income. Wow, let me just hop down off this soapbox. Anybody got a ladder? On the topic at hand: That certainly is a shocking story! It'd be more shocking from an unbiased source, and there's no way that source isn't biased. Plus, all that talk about "their side of the story", we should remember that CPS can't use public media to tell their own side. After reading the other links, I am utterly unsurprised at how justified I think CPS' actions sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Farrar, on 15 Feb 2015 - 10:41 AM, said: Um... don't be so sure about that... (says the woman who planned a homebirth for her twins...) without a qualified birth attendant as these two did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 without a qualified birth attendant as these two did? Sorry, no, I idiotically missed that and said so later... Though I do know a number of people who did a later birth without an attendant and people didn't seem to think it was that odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 LucyStoner, on 14 Feb 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:Seriously. We have alternative treatment insurance parity here and I have interacted with many MDs who work with and refer to various NDs. One of the largest schools for natural medicine is located here. This is not fringe here in the slightest. I question whether they were even doing a ND. I seriously doubt it. and I love how many options we have for alternative care. love my son's ND. (only does peds). I'm about ready to switch to one for me . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I didn't read all of the story but as a foster parent for 20 years, I can tell you that there is almost always MORE to the story than the birth parents say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Why wouldn't the judge give her the option of taking the children and moving in with friends or relatives until he gets his act together? Just musing. It seems like the father's anger and the FIL's mental Illness seem to be the sticking points. Well, and the babies' weight. It seems like things might be managed better if they were separated for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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