Breaking news on Fox... 17yo Bristol Palin is pregnant and will marry the father

[Pammy]

but the more I think about it, the more I think it is a strong possibility. I wasn't excited about voting in this election, but seeing it as a historical election on both sides, I suppose I will relent and vote.

 

Does it matter that I have this ominous feeling about the results of the election not being in favor of family values? Or that I have these weird dreams about the future?

 

I think the majority of conservatives will stand by their man (and woman) no matter what the media slings, but I can't help but wonder why we couldn't get someone more in alignment with conservative values to begin with.

[sdWTMer]

Trig is only 4 months old. And Bristol is 5 months along.

[Andie]

I think this situation does indeed reflect on her personal and political judgement. While I'm happy that she is choosing to support her daughter, and that the young man is apparently stepping up to the plate, obviously there was either supervision or information that were not provided. To provide abstinence-only knowledge to your child (and vote for such education for everyone's children) and then be un-involved enough to not know that they are sexually active at 16--IMHO that is a parental judgement problem.

 

 

Oh, I think that's a leap, Kay. Providing supervision and excellent information doesn't guarantee that the teen is going to decide against becoming sexually active. And even an informed and informative, attentive parent can be shocked to find their child is sexually active. (Do we know she didn't know?)

[Mama Lynx]

You apparently assume the "mistake" is pregnancy. I read it as the mistake is premarital sex.

 

I read it as premarital sex, as well. But even so, I do not agree with him. STDs and babies are not punishments for mistakes. They are consequences for actions. And the raising of responsible people involves facing consequences.

[Brigitte]

Now, is this girl's name really Bristol? As in 'board'? :confused:

 

Well, bless her heart...at least it wasn't spelled Brystal.

 

Oh, and this won't change my vote either; I'm still standing by the good doctor. :D

 

Those of us living in Bristol, Va/Tn jor Bristol, UK don't get what all the hullaballu about her name is. Kids are named Cheyenne, Montana, Georgia, Virginia, Geneva, Dallas, etc. What is the big deal about Bristol?

[Shelbelle7]

According to the McCain campaign, as quoted in The Anchorage Daily News (http://www.adn.com/politics/story/510777.html):

 

"At approximately 11:00 a.m. Thursday August 28, 2008, John McCain formally invited Governor Sarah Palin to join the Republican ticket as the vice presidential nominee on the deck of the McCain family home.

 

"Later that morning, John McCain departed for Phoenix and Governor Palin departed with staff to Flagstaff, Arizona. Governor Palin, Kris Perry, Steve Schmidt and Mark Salter proceeded to the Manchester Inn and Conference Center in Middletown, Ohio. They were checked into the hotel as the Upton Family. While there, Governor Palin's children, who had been told they were going to Ohio to celebrate their parents' wedding anniversary, were told for the first time that their mother would be a nominee for Vice President of the United States of America.

 

[bolding mine]

 

Maybe a day is enough time to discuss the ramifications with daughter, baby's father, and baby's father's family. Or maybe the possibility of the Governor taking the vp slot was considered even before that.

 

While the children may not have been told until 8/28 that their mother had actually been chosen for the VP spot, there had been discussions with the McCain camp beforehand. There were questions that had to be answered. I would guess that the family discussed such a possibility for their family at that time. BUT, we are not privy to the private discussions their family may or may not have had. I'm astonished to see so much speculative judgement coming down on this family.

 

I see Sarah Palin's decision to accept the VP spot much differently than just taking a high-power corporate decision. I see her stepping into a position of serving her country. I do not see her decision as selfish ambition, but selfless service to all of us who are American citizens. She has accepted the call to a position of service to her country and fellow Americans. I believe that we are in sore need of someone who is willing to take on special interests, lobbyists of all kinds, corrupt politicians and the like in an effort to restore our government to that which it was originally intended to be. By the people and for the people. She has shown in her elected positions in Alaska, a willingness and a determination to serve in that fashion.

 

Some of you may say that she is choosing to serve our country at the expense of her own children. How can it be said any differently of any serviceman or woman who leaves his or her family behind to serve overseas? What if they are killed in action and are never able to do anything more to raise or nurture their own families? Should they step out of the military? Are they putting the needs of their own children second to their military ambitions? Are they being selfish in choosing to serve in our military? Should we only have servicemen/women who are single? They are making the ultimate sacrifice our the behalf of the rest of us who call ourselves Americans. Because freedom is not free, there are those who must pay the price for others. Some are called to give their lives. Some pay the price by serving in governmental capacities. Our freedom is a costly commodity and I believe that we do not always appreciate the cost paid for us by others. There are things in this world that are worth that cost. Some are more willing than others to pay that price.

 

That Sarah Palin is one of those who seems to be willing to pay a higher price on the behalf of others is something that I believe should be praised. I cannot imagine that it is a decision that either she or her dh made lightly. They knew the skeletons in their closet. They knew they would be under a microscope, as well as their family life as a whole. That they would choose this for their family, but you would not is really not the issue. They have chosen this. I, for one, am very grateful that they did. I don't see it as sacrificing their children. I see it as willingness to serve their fellow man. We here don't have a personal window into what the daily life of this family will be like if she is elected with John McCain. It could very well be that her family benefits greatly from her taking this position. We may not be able to see all the ways this could be true. Does that make it potentially any less true just because we can't see it for ourselves?

 

Others serve in many ways, often in the name of Christianity, at the "expense" of their families. Some see this as detrimental, others do not. There are countless professions which call upon one to give this type of wholeheartedness in which to do the job. I cannot look upon this as selfish ambition in most cases. Sure there are those who are out for selfish ambition, but in many situations, I would be quicker to define it as selfless service of others.

 

I cannot help but think of those who have given their lives in defense of this great nation. I cannot help but think that the payment of their blood for our freedom demands something in return. I cannot help but think that there are those among us who are willing to pay a higher cost than others. For those people, including Sarah Palin, I am extremely grateful.

[GraceinMD]

I think this situation does indeed reflect on her personal and political judgement

This is certainly your perogative.

 

 

obviously there was either supervision or information that were not provided. To provide abstinence-only knowledge to your child

How is that obvious, Kay? Are you going to be "tomato-staking" your sons when they're 17 in order to provide the level of supervision that would prevent a teen pregnancy? And how do you know what knowledge she and her husband provided to their daughter? Supporting abstinence-only education in the schools does NOT mean that you aren't providing this information to your children yourself! It may mean that you just don't want the government responsible for s*x education. Do you KNOW how her daughter was educated?

and then be un-involved enough to not know that they are sexually active at 16--IMHO that is a parental judgement problem.

 

How do you know this? I am really surprised (and sorry, Kay, but your post caught my eye - and is by NO means the only post to have these leaps of logic) by the self-righteous attitude that no involved parent could possibly have a child that could/would make decisions that were contrary to the ones you hope they would make.

 

I remember before I had my son, I thought you just 'made children eat vegetables' or 'made them do xyz'. Well, :lol: to that! They are people. They make bad decisions, sometimes life-altering ones. But it's NOT always because the parent is uninvolved.

[SFP]

Yes you are labeling all conservatives. So no that is not my personal feeling that is my response to your direct quote.

 

 

 

If you think it was my intent to label instead of present a statement of equal absurd quality, then we're definitely not communicating with one another. I was providing a breathless counterpoint to Georgia Girl's melodramatic statement, nothing more, nothing less.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Does it matter that I have this ominous feeling about the results of the election not being in favor of family values?

 

I am not a McCain supporter, but I honestly think either way this election turns out, positive family values will be the winner. I think McCain and Palin have strong family values, and I think the same of Obama and Biden.

 

I have never once during this election thought either side was lacking in the family values dept. The human and Constitutional rights dept. perhaps (and that goes for both sides IMO), but not family values.

[Plucky]

I am not a McCain supporter, but I honestly think either way this election turns out, positive family values will be the winner. I think McCain and Palin have strong family values, and I think the same of Obama and Biden.

 

I have never once during this election thought either side was lacking in the family values dept. The human and Constitutional rights dept. perhaps (and that goes for both sides IMO), but not family values.

 

:thumbup: Good post. Gosh we're an enlightened bunch. I wish I could rep you!

[5kidsforME]

If you think it was my intent to label instead of present a statement of equal absurd quality, then we're definitely not communicating with one another. I was providing a breathless counterpoint to Georgia Girl's melodramatic statement, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Ok so you were being sarcastic? Sorry, I think I need to walk away from these political threads, :blush: I didn't catch your tone....or rather I wasn't "trackin your vibe" :tongue_smilie:

[SFP]

Believe me, Megan, no one gets my sense of humor. One of my friends tells me I don't have the face to tell jokes--everyone takes what I say seriously--and it's even more difficult on line since I'm not prone to using smileys.

[Shelbelle7]

To provide abstinence-only knowledge to your child (and vote for such education for everyone's children) and then be un-involved enough to not know that they are sexually active at 16--IMHO that is a parental judgement problem.

I do not think that assumption can be made. I can only assume that because your own dc are very young that you believe your dc will not determine of their own free will to go against what you have diligently sought to teach them. I do not wish that upon you, but I think you are naive to think that her parents were uninvolved enough to know what was going on. A teen who wants to make this decision (to have pre-marital sex) is more than likely NOT going to inform her parents beforehand, and will do whatever she feels she needs to in order to *keep* her parents from finding out. It only takes one time to get pregnant. The lapse in judgment came from the dd in this case. I do not think that we know enough personal details of this family's life to say with any degree of certainty that her parents were uninvolved in her life, or that they have a parental judgment problem. She made her own decision. Children are wont to do that, especially when they hit their teens.

[Crissy]

Believe me, Megan, no one gets my sense of humor. One of my friends tells me I don't have the face to tell jokes--everyone takes what I say seriously--and it's even more difficult on line since I'm not prone to using smileys.

 

That's odd. I think I often *get* your sense of humor.

At least I hope I do. I'm always laughing at you. Errr...with you.

[Mamagistra]

Those of us living in Bristol, Va/Tn jor Bristol, UK don't get what all the hullaballu about her name is. Kids are named Cheyenne, Montana, Georgia, Virginia, Geneva, Dallas, etc. What is the big deal about Bristol?

 

:blush: I dunno...just never heard it bestowed on a kid...it reminded me of art supplies...andIwastryingtobesilly. Sorry. :(

 

:leaving:

[Kelli in TN]

I had all of cooking time and dinner time to seriously consider why, of all the political threads that have blown up and blown over on this board, this thread seemed nasty to me when it seemed civil to so many others.

 

1) Because it involves a 17 year old girl. For many of you 17 is close enough to an adult. To me 17 is still a kid. It all depends upon your perspective and I can only process this stuff through my perspective. So I find myself getting pretty emotional about this. Other posters get emotional about other aspects. This is just me.

 

2) Because people I respect on here took issue with the viewpoint that Mrs. Palin should not have considered a change of career that would cause her daughter's circumstances to be publicly known on a national level. And so, since people were disagreeing with MY viewpoint, I decided to get miffed and be a baby about it. Because I can dish it out but I don't take it so well. :001_huh:

 

Anyway, I apologize for judging other posters' tones.

[Crissy]

Anyway, I apologize for judging other posters' tones.

 

 

S'okay, Kelli. Read back a few pages. We've already established that judgement is something we utilize in forming opinions.

 

:D

[Crissy]

:blush: I dunno...just never heard it bestowed on a kid...it reminded me of art supplies...andIwastryingtobesilly. Sorry. :(

 

:leaving:

 

 

My sister's kids are Austin and Tyler.

Guess where her husband was raised!

 

:D

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Anyway, I apologize for judging other posters' tones.

 

Kelli, I for one LOVE opinionated people, and I have enjoyed many of your posts, even ones I have disagreed with.:grouphug:

[astrid]

Okay, let me just start by saying this is my theory only, and I"m not saying it's fact, I'm not saying anything of the kind.

I'm well aware that about a bazillion of you will disagree with me, and about a gazillion of you will attempt to tar and feather me.

Just the musings of my mind as a walked the dog this evening, and I thought I'd just flesh it out here and see what you think. I am SOOOO gonna regret this, but here goes........

 

<Astrid takes deep breath.>

<Astrid shuts eyes and jumps into the pool.>

 

So I was googling around online trying to get some facts and/or photos of the whole baby situation. What I found were several photos from 2007 in which Bristol looks pregnant. Here is one:

 

I also found lots of pictures of Sarah Palin from when she would have been 7.5 moths pregnant. She does not look pregnant at all.

In fact, in the video (a PBS-type thing from Alaska) she virtually power-walks up a hill with the man who is interviewing her. Again, lots of pregnant women can do that, right? More power to her. But then there are the documented reports that her water broke in Texas and she continued her business there and then flew home 8+ hours to deliver? If she's a 44 year old woman, pregnant with what she knows will be a special needs baby, why wouldn't she go to the nearest hospital in TX, but fly home to a much smaller hospital in Alaska?

 

Getting back to the photos of Bristol Palin. Anyone notice the ring on her ring finger in the photos of her holding Trig on Friday during the VP announcement in Ohio?

 

But the more I thought about it, the more this niggling little feeling kept creeping into my mind......maybe Bristol really DID give birth to Trig four months ago. Which would makes all the more politically necessary this sudden announcement, in the midst of the growing suspicion over the possibility that Trig is really Sarah's grandson. Because if suddenly Bristol is FIVE months pregnant, she couldn't have given birth FOUR months ago, right? So that leaves me with the nagging little suspicion that this whole pregnancy could be conveniently fabricated, and if, in the near future, circumstances change.....then that might make me believe that there may be some credence to my crazy conspiracy theory.

 

I could be very wrong, and I probably am. And I realize this is a delicate subject, and that many of you will see fit to disagree heartily and I'm okay with that, really. I"m just hypothesizing. Food for thought. It's a crazy situation, is all I'm sayin'.

 

Okay.

Let the good times roll, as they say.....

 

<taking another deep breath, closing eyes and flinching>

astrid

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

if, in the near future, circumstances change.....then that might make me believe that there may be some credence to my crazy conspiracy theory.

 

My husband (the family conspiracy theorist) agrees with you. He said that if it turns out this was fabricated, someone needs to go to jail- that's how strongly he feels about it.

[Crissy]

As I understand it, that first photo originally appeared on a website in 2006.

[Kay in Cal]

No... but excellent information might have prevented a pregnancy. I believe in teaching abstinence before marriage--and in knowing your children well enough to know if they are as committed to that stance as you are. Personally, I think every young woman and man should have a strong knowledge of birth control, even if just for use after marriage.

 

Yes, I always hear of folks who were responsible and their birth control "failed", but I've still yet to meet one such who was using the recommended barrier method (condom or diaphragm) combined with a hormonal method (pill, patch or implant). There maybe a few cases in a large statistical group, all I know is that none of my peers who had unplanned pregnancies was using more than just condoms--great for disease control, not an effective method of long-term birth control. I've asked three of my friends after the fact, and they had no idea that the one year failure rate of condoms is as much as 10% even with perfect use, much higher with "less than perfect" use--information that I knew even though I was NOT sexually active in high school. If a teenaged woman who is sexually active does not know HOW to protect herself because her parent has chosen to withhold that knowledge, yeah, that's a parenting decision.

 

I suppose it is possible that her daughter had all the information and access to appropriate resources, as well as parental involvement, but intended to get pregnant?

[astrid]

Those of us living in Bristol, Va/Tn jor Bristol, UK don't get what all the hullaballu about her name is. Kids are named Cheyenne, Montana, Georgia, Virginia, Geneva, Dallas, etc. What is the big deal about Bristol?

 

Hey! Don't forget Bristol, Connecticut! :-)

 

astrid

[hsmamainva]

I'm with you, Astrid!!

 

And, I will also add this: I see nothing "wrong" with a 17 year old having a baby. I don't fault her mother. These things happen sometimes. I don't think it has any bearing at all on her ability to be vice-president.

 

However.....What I WOULD find fault with is another lying politician.

 

After all, weren't we told by Bill Clinton, while he was staring us in the face, that he did not have ___ relations with Monica Lewinsky, only to later have to admit that, well, yeah, he did.

 

I would have much preferred to have heard the truth from him the first time.

 

The same is true in this circumstance -- And this is not a new rumor, btw. It's been swirling around Alaska for months. And someone has to know something. We're talking a town with a population of less than 10,000 people! We have 20,000 in our small town and everyone seems to know everything about everybody. Sort of like that 6 degrees of separation thing. ;)

 

According to ABC news tonight (I think that was the channel), John McCain is sending a team of lawyers to Alaska to investigate this entire situation. If there's truth to the rumor, it will come out. If it's a false rumor, then that will come out, too.

[Kathleen in VA]

An article explaining the unusual names of Sarah Palin's children:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/08/30/2008-08-30_whats_in_the_palin_childrens_names_fish_.html

[Kelli in TN]

Hey! Don't forget Bristol, Connecticut! :-)

 

astrid

 

My Grandma and Grandpa lived in Bristol, Illinois!

[PariSarah]

Plus, I am confused here. Aren't republicans usually Christians and consider themselves to have a higher moral ground than liberals? How come it is just OK, too bad, brave choice for her not to abort? Why is nobody thinking how can it be OK to have pre-marital sex at age *17*? No morals? Why should that be all shyss'ed about? Am I just being old-fashioned and unrealistic?

 

 

. . . for saying things like you're saying. Not saying that you're wrong, just that Christians seem to be in a d@mned-if-you-do position here. If you extend grace, some will think you're blessing sin; if you proclaim the sinfulness of sin, some people will accusing you of branding an innocent child as a "mistake" or the "product of sin."

 

For my part, I believe that every child is a gift of God--a reminder that God hasn't given up on us yet. Sometimes children that come in not-the-best circumstances are reminders that God hasn't given up on THAT PERSON yet. (I certainly believe that about my nephew.)

 

So I would never count this child, this pregnancy as anything but a gift of God. Even though I am one of the most conservative people you'll ever meet when it comes to sexual ethics, including pre-marital sexual ethics, and especially out of concern for the child that could result, I talk to kids about that before they're facing a crisis pregnancy.

 

During and after, it's time for a different conversation.

[Shelbelle7]

So I was googling around online trying to get some facts and/or photos of the whole baby situation. What I found were several photos from 2007 in which Bristol looks pregnant. Here is one:

 

You know, I just think you are treading on thin ice here. I have a 21yodd who would like exactly like this in pictures and has for the last 5 years at least. My dd is an insulin-dependent diabetic. Because she has used her stomach for injections sites so much in the last 11 years, she has a belly that makes her look pregnant. She hates it. In fact, if you were to look at a picture of that dd and myself right now, she would look pregnant and I would not. I happen to be almost 5 months pregnant and she is not pregnant at all. There could possibly be other reasons for her dd's belly to look this way other than a pregnancy. For you to put this forth as a conspiracy theory without being privy to FACTS is simply spreading vicious gossip.

 

I also found lots of pictures of Sarah Palin from when she would have been 7.5 moths pregnant. She does not look pregnant at all.

 

She is wearing a sweatshirt jacket and it's zipped up. I have to tell you that I look very much like that when I am 7 months pregnant. Right now, I am nearly 5 months pregnant. I am not showing at all. I can still get my jeans zipped up perfectly. I have not gained a single pound. My last pregnancy, my parents did not know that I was pregnant until I told them when I was 25 weeks along. They spent entire weekends with me and could not tell. It is not as far-fetched as you think that she could be that far along and not show. Again, I think that for you to spread this without being privy to FACTS is vicious gossip.

[dawn of ns]

I'd just like to offer up my best wishes for Ms. Palin. I can't imagine how much more exciting this time could get for her, she's McCain's running mate and soon to be a grandmother. Pretty nifty if you ask me! :)

[SnowWhite]

However, having a candidate have an older teen dd that is pregnant is not an issue for me. The teen was the one making the choices that put her in that situation, not the candidate. I'm glad to know she chose to allow her baby to live.

:iagree:

 

Should she resign as governor too? Should any mom who has a high-powered job quit when her almost-adult dd gets pg?

 

It's possible she might be more available as VP than as governor.

 

OTOH, I got pg at 17 and became a mom at 18. I did not need my mom to quit her job or hold my hand.

 

Wow, there's an awful lot of judgments being made here on very little actual info.

 

Right on. I think many women are giving both Bristol and Sarah Palin too little credit. They seem to come from "stern frontier stock", which is less likely to make a trauma of a 17 or 18yo marrying and giving birth.

 

.

 

Instead of pitying them for their special needs child, son in Iraq, and pregnant daughter why don't we give them the space to celebrate a new child, selflessness in serving one's country, upcoming wedding and the birth of their grandchild. These are wonderful events that they appear to be welcoming; why should we be detracting from their joy?

 

If they announced all this ahead of time I guess McCain's announcement of VP choice would have been anti-climatic. They seem to be going public with all their so called skeletons in a rather timely fashion.

 

Let's deal with the issues and stop disecting how their family should be living. Is the McCain/Palin ticket your choice? Head to the polls in November and let your voice be heard.

 

Thank you for this. My sentiments exactly.

 

There's a huge difference between CONDONING teenage pregnancy, and accepting that it is a fact. I know several teen moms at our church, and while it isn't the desire of my heart for my kids to be there, it isn't my job to stand up and say they are evil. The best you can do, when a teen makes that choice, is to stand beside them and say it doens't change the fact that I love you. I'm sure if you asked Ms. Palin, she never would have chosen this for her child. But how much more hurtful to condemn the child and her choices. She isn't hiding her under a rug, sending her to Switzerland to have the baby, she is standing beside her daughter with the appearance of supporting her child and her decisions. Even if they weren't what she might have chosen.

 

Exactly!

 

 

And, for the record, I think a healthy dose of "Do unto others" is called for no matter which candidate's family is involved. It's not about whose policies I support--it's about treating other people the way I want to be treated.

:iagree:

 

I do not understand those who are saying Sarah Palin should just give up the nomination, go home, and simply be with her daughter. What does that mean? That would have driven me insane if my mother had done that. Why can Sarah Palin not be supportive of her daughter in all the ways that really matter just because she may be our next vice president? It's not as though Sarah Palin can carry and deliver that baby for her daughter. The best she can do is to offer her love, advice, and understanding and space.

 

 

Thank you for this, PrairieAir... this question has had me scratching my head too. During my pregnancies, the only time I want my Mommy is during labor, and I'm the exception from what I understand... many women want their Mommy FAR AWAY when they're in labor.

 

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0' date='8599,1837862,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

 

 

Apparently her hometown has been in on the secret. It sounds like a great place to grow up. Very nice people.:)[/quote']

 

Once again with the great links, Jugglin!

I'm not sure I get why this would make him lose his Christian conservative base. I'm a Christian conservative and it doesn't change my mind about his pick at all. Why would it? She has a daughter who made a mistake, chose poorly and is paying the natural consequences. Her daughter has chosen to have the baby - that's a Christian conservative reaction to a mistake like this. Her mom is standing behind her decision to have the baby and to get married - that's a Christian conservative reaction. Her mom is happy that she is going to be a grandparent, even in less than ideal circumstances - that's a Christian conservative reaction.

 

I'm missing it - why would this make McCain lose his Christian conservative base?

 

:iagree::confused:

While the children may not have been told until 8/28 that their mother had actually been chosen for the VP spot, there had been discussions with the McCain camp beforehand. There were questions that had to be answered. I would guess that the family discussed such a possibility for their family at that time. BUT, we are not privy to the private discussions their family may or may not have had. I'm astonished to see so much speculative judgement coming down on this family.

 

Right on the money, Shelley, thanks for this perspective.

 

I remember before I had my son, I thought you just 'made children eat vegetables' or 'made them do xyz'. Well, :lol: to that! They are people. They make bad decisions, sometimes life-altering ones. But it's NOT always because the parent is uninvolved.

 

Exactly.

[astrid]

I'm with you, Astrid!!

 

And, I will also add this: I see nothing "wrong" with a 17 year old having a baby. I don't fault her mother. These things happen sometimes. I don't think it has any bearing at all on her ability to be vice-president.

 

However.....What I WOULD find fault with is another lying politician.

 

I would have much preferred to have heard the truth from him the first time.

 

The same is true in this circumstance -- And this is not a new rumor, btw. It's been swirling around Alaska for months. And someone has to know something. We're talking a town with a population of less than 10,000 people! We have 20,000 in our small town and everyone seems to know everything about everybody. Sort of like that 6 degrees of separation thing. ;)

 

According to ABC news tonight (I think that was the channel), John McCain is sending a team of lawyers to Alaska to investigate this entire situation. If there's truth to the rumor, it will come out. If it's a false rumor, then that will come out, too.

 

Yes, that's my feeling. It's the LYING and deceit I cannot abide. Now my hope is that the investigation is carried out with honesty and integrity, such as I would expect from McCain.

 

astrid

[SFP]

That's odd. I think I often *get* your sense of humor.

At least I hope I do. I'm always laughing at you. Errr...with you.

 

 

Hurray! And last week Pam got my Obama went to preschool joke. All is not lost.

[Christy B]

 

I could be very wrong, and I probably am. And I realize this is a delicate subject, and that many of you will see fit to disagree heartily and I'm okay with that, really. I"m just hypothesizing. Food for thought. It's a crazy situation, is all I'm sayin'.

 

Okay.

Let the good times roll, as they say.....

 

<taking another deep breath, closing eyes and flinching>

astrid

 

Although my own suspicions are based on the timing of the announcement and the fact that it is just too convenient, not so much the pictures. Like you say, it's a crazy situation, and there are just a few too many coincidences not to make me question.

 

I'd like to say we will find out when all the facts are in, but I'm not inclined to think that we'll ever know all of the facts.

 

I'm sad for this family. I can't help but think at least one of them is broken hearted right now.

[Joanne]

I think this situation does indeed reflect on her personal and political judgement. While I'm happy that she is choosing to support her daughter, and that the young man is apparently stepping up to the plate, obviously there was either supervision or information that were not provided. To provide abstinence-only knowledge to your child (and vote for such education for everyone's children) and then be un-involved enough to not know that they are sexually active at 16--IMHO that is a parental judgement problem.

 

I think this perspective assumes a lot, probably inaccurately.

 

It also represents a perspective on the teen years I can't agree with.

 

Good, well raised kids can and do make bad choices. Not every challenging situation = bad or underparenting.

[Donna]

I don't feel comfortable at all with her being 2nd in command because of her experience and her judgement leaves much to be desired, IMO. She appears to be dishonest as well. Why lie and say that she never approved of the Bridge to Nowhere? What else has she lied about?:confused: This latest issue is just one more "thing" and the announcement was just made Friday. Geez.

 

 

I don't know why everyone is looking at the opposite side and saying this one has no experience and that one is a lier. Haven't you realized that all politicians lie??

 

You just discussed some of Palin's lies. What about Obama's lies about his church and whether or not he followed the religious teachings of the church he attended (which are pretty scary) for so long then giving up that church when it became politically advantageous to do so? Biden lies and McCain lies? They all do or they wouldn't be politicians.

 

What about Obama's inexperience? Saying he's done well as a leader in business does not make him a good administrator of a nation. I live in NJ and a guy who made his fortune in business stinks as a governor following the same old business as usual style in the State House.

 

I don't feel comfortable with either of the choices we have this election. I am trying to decide which is the lesser of two evils and saddened that there are no truly great leaders to vote for. Who cares whether or not this one is black or that one is a woman? What difference does that make anyway when our country is in such troubled time and needs a true leader? Both sides are saying they will bring about change but I say not all change is good especially if it will take more money from my paycheck and leave me with less to support my family though I am working hard to give them a good life.

 

I do wonder as others have done, what would be the position of Obama supporters if it were his teenager who were pregnant? The double standard in this country and influence of the media is very disheartening.

[5kidsforME]

I think this perspective assumes a lot, probably inaccurately.

 

It also represents a perspective on the teen years I can't agree with.

 

Good, well raised kids can and do make bad choices. Not every challenging situation = bad or underparenting.[/quote]

 

Absolutely 100% :iagree:.

[Crissy]

Haven't you realized that all politicians lie??

 

 

 

I don't believe that is true.

[Crissy]

 

Good, well raised kids can and do make bad choices. Not every challenging situation = bad or underparenting.

 

 

Wise words, Joanne.

 

I'd hate to think that people thought less of my parents based on the ridiculous choices I made as a teen and a young adult. :001_huh:

[astrid]

Although my own suspicions are based on the timing of the announcement and the fact that it is just too convenient, not so much the pictures. Like you say, it's a crazy situation, and there are just a few too many coincidences not to make me question.

 

I'd like to say we will find out when all the facts are in, but I'm not inclined to think that we'll ever know all of the facts.

 

I'm sad for this family. I can't help but think at least one of them is broken hearted right now.

 

 

I totally agree. WAAAAY too many coincidences. And odd timing....for instances, why would the announcement be made at the beginning of the RNC Convention?

 

And like you, I'm afraid that all the facts may never be known. Why is it important that we know the facts? Because if there was/is a cover-up, that's a problem. If it turns out that the American people were lied to in an effort to win votes, that's a problem.

 

It makes me very, very sad for this entire family.

 

astrid

[Kari C in SC]

Should she resign as governor too? Should any mom who has a high-powered job quit when her almost-adult dd gets pg?

 

It's possible she might be more available as VP than as governor.

 

OTOH, I got pg at 17 and became a mom at 18. I did not need my mom to quit her job or hold my hand.

 

Wow, there's an awful lot of judgments being made here on very little actual info.

 

I got pregnant (by choice) at 16, my now dh was 17. We had our first child just shy of our 17th and 18th birthdays. I have to say I agree with you on not needing my mom to quit her job and take care of me or the baby. Actually, my father became seriously ill one month after I gave birth. He went on permanent disability from his job. I homeschooled my last year of high school with American school, so I could stay home to care for my father and my new baby. My mom went from part time work to full time work to make up the difference in pay. I took over all the household chores and grocery shopping. As well as getting my father on a commode, bathing and handing out meds. I was 17 and I survived. My dh and I married 15 months after our ds was born. Our ds is 19 years old and serving in the Army. My dh and I have been married for a little over 18 years.

 

I don't think what somebody's child does should effect that person's chance to be VP. I don't think it says anything about how Palin raised her child. My parents were wonderful parents. I knew about abstinence. I knew right from wrong. My dh was my first and only. He had family issues and didn't live with his family. He wanted me to be his family. It didn't matter how I had been raised or what I thought. When I looked into that boy's eyes, I fell in love.

 

Personally, if I were Palin... it would all be too much. I may be strong, but not that strong. I don't know her and I don't know what she is capable of though. So, I continue to listen and learn.

[Kris]

I think this situation does indeed reflect on her personal and political judgement. While I'm happy that she is choosing to support her daughter, and that the young man is apparently stepping up to the plate, obviously there was either supervision or information that were not provided. To provide abstinence-only knowledge to your child (and vote for such education for everyone's children) and then be un-involved enough to not know that they are sexually active at 16--IMHO that is a parental judgement problem.

 

It's my understanding that what she is voting against is making this the responsibility of the public school--not that the information shouldn't be available. I don't rely on the public school to teach my son anything else, and this is much more important.

 

I think it's only a guess as to what kind of information she's given her daughter on matters such as this. It seems that it's being argued that, because Palin supports abstinence-only education in the public schools that her daughter didn't know where babies come from, or how to prevent a pregnancy?

 

I'd be interested to know what the statistics are regarding teen pregnancies in schools that do hand out condoms and so forth. If none of those kids are getting pregnant, I'd be happy to send a check.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

And odd timing....for instances, why would the announcement be made at the beginning of the RNC Convention?

 

That's the million dollar question.

[Kris]

So I was googling around online trying to get some facts and/or photos of the whole baby situation. What I found were several photos from 2007 in which Bristol looks pregnant. Here is one:

 

 

 

But, see, I don't think the girl looks pregnant in this picture. If you look her arms (what you can see of her arms) she's not a bag of bones. Looks to me like she's got a "poochie" -- and yes, I always had one, too. At 6' tall, 135 pounds, I still had it, during the "hiphugger" era and I was teased mercilessly about it. I didn't lose it until I got sick and weighed 120 pounds. My son, poor thing, also has it and inherited it from me. He is over 6'6", and *is* thin as a rail, and still has a "poochie."

 

I've been "accused" of being pregnant when I wasn't, and also had a baby when a surprising number of people didn't realize I was.

 

I thought all the speculation about the "baby switch" thing had been put to rest?

[SnowWhite]

I tried to rep you, Kari, but I've been too kind lately. Consider yourself patted on the back. Love your honesty.

[Kari C in SC]

 

Plus, I am confused here. Aren't republicans usually Christians and consider themselves to have a higher moral ground than liberals? How come it is just OK, too bad, brave choice for her not to abort? Why is nobody thinking how can it be OK to have pre-marital sex at age *17*? No morals? Why should that be all shyss'ed about? Am I just being old-fashioned and unrealistic?

 

I'd certainly have a fit if any of my kids had pre-marital whatever and you bet there'd be consequences. I cannot imagine people saying this could happen to anyone, because no, it wouldn't. Not if the family was involved and healththy. Yes, I also had a brother who went way wrong (dies of an over-dose), but there were definitely family confusion and mental illness involved.

 

 

I think you should be very careful with saying that this could not happen in any family. Unless you supervise your teens 24/7, then it is possible. As I said in my other post, I came for a great family. You can ask my mom... she will tell you I was the best kid. I still had a baby when I was 16. To blow your mind even more, my dh (boyfriend at the time) planned to get pregnant. Anything is possible and it isn't the end of the world by any means. My baby was the absolute BEST thing to happen to our family to get us through a very difficult 9 years of my father's illness. My parents thought he was the only joy they had to look for in their lives.

 

That child is 19 now, so I have raised one teenager. I can tell you that having a fit won't change anything if they are having premarital sex. It will just push them farther away.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

my 14yo (tomorrow) wears those types of shirts and has a little bit of a belly at times, too. There are ways that she's been photographed wearing one of those at a certain angle that we joked together that she looked pregnant. I happen to know, that's a physical impossibility right now.

 

It's a stretch to take that picture and somehow hypothesize that maybe she could be pregnant in this picture.

 

Also, just for the record and my 2 cents fwiw, we don't know the entire story. We don't know if there was one moment of heated passion or if there was an on-going relationship here. It's really none of our business. It's unfortunate that it happened. I feel for this family just as I do for all families facing this very difficult and private situation. We don't know what has been happening behind the scenes and I wonder if it's really fair to speculate.

 

I agree that if there was somekind of cover-up involved it's not good. As of this moment, we don't know that that's what happened, unless I've missed something since I've been home for only a few hours and haven't caught up on it all yet!

 

I would hate to think that some of my really bad decisions would reflect on my parents' abilities to raise me. Seriously. I've made wrong choices, that were mine and went against all that I was taught at home. I had to learn. Unfortunately, some bad decisions are a little more visible than others.

[hsmamainva]

That's the million dollar question.

 

I found it interesting that the story broke when every news station was running continuing coverage of Hurricane Gustav.

 

That relegated the story to the scrolling ticker on the bottom.

 

*I* found out about it first from reading this post.

 

AND...the start of the RNC was postponed because of the hurricane also.

[Erica in PA]

 

But then there are the documented reports that her water broke in Texas and she continued her business there and then flew home 8+ hours to deliver? If she's a 44 year old woman, pregnant with what she knows will be a special needs baby, why wouldn't she go to the nearest hospital in TX, but fly home to a much smaller hospital in Alaska?

 

 

I don't know what to think... I'm not going to throw tomatoes at you for your theory, though. I do think that if something this huge is going on, it will come out. I don't think things like this can be covered up anymore, with the media and leaks and $$ for info, etc. So I do take some comfort in thinking that we'll know the truth eventually.

 

I do disagree with your quote above. That part of the story just doesn't sound that odd to me, that she would go home to the hospital where she had already planned on giving birth, to be attended by the staff and doctors she had already gotten to know. She obviously believed that was the best place to have her baby, or she wouldn't have planned to deliver there ahead of time. Now if she had left TX and flown to some random place in the US to give birth that would be odd. But obviously she chose that place in AK to deliver her baby for a reason, she clearly was comfortable with that hospital and that staff, and I can totally see wanting to be *there* to have her baby, rather than going to a hospital where she knew no one. If she'd wanted or felt she needed a high tech hospital, I'm sure she and her ob would have planned that from the start. I might well do the same thing in that situation, if my ob gave me the all clear to fly home, as all reports say that Palin's ob did.

 

Other than that part though, I don't know what to think. I can't imagine that she would have entered this race knowing that her dd was pg, on top of everything else she has going on in her life, and so it does make me wonder if she and McCain are lying-- which in turn means almost anything could be possible.

 

I really hope it's not-- I really was looking forward to voting for them, and if things resolve well, I still will.

 

Erica

[Osmosis Mom]

This is internet format while mothering and what not. I just wanted to sort of clarify that I was not speaking out against the Christian religion or its followers nor in any way ridiculing pregnant teens. But that people with high morals should sort of work within their own families before preaching to others (and that includes moi, of course!).

 

And to PariSarah, then I agree with you that yes, if there is an incidence then the girl would need the support needed. Most certainly. I just don't wnat to have to go there which is why I speak very openly about this subject-matter with my kids and tell them we'd always consider early marriage if they fell in love at fx. age 16.

 

Just wanted to clarify for those who really felt offended.