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Just venting: Why is it always the shoes?


Jenny in Florida
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I've posted before about similar issues: My son is a lifelong vegan and a dancer. Once his feet grew to adult size, it became a more or less constant challenge to find dance shoes for him that are decent quality and not leather. We did eventually discover that it is possible to custom order leather-free ballet slippers from Grishko (which take forever to come in and about half the time arrive in the wrong color, but at least they exist). And for a long time he was able to get away with buying the "economy" model of tap shoe. However, he now taps so much that those shoes don't last more than a day without needing repairs.

 

His record was two hours. We bought a pair of shoes one day. He attended a master class the next day. The brand new shoes were toast within the first two hours. First, one shoe lost a toe tap. Then the other split along a seam.

 

After that debacle, we ordered a very nice pair of custom-made, leather-free ballroom oxfords and took them to the local dance shop to have taps put on . . . except that it turned out the soles were the wrong kind for attaching taps (despite the fact that we discussed with the shoemaker that we planned to add taps), and the toes were the wrong shape for either of the brands of taps that the dance store carried. We then took them to a shoe repair place that has a reputation for being great with dance shoes and were told the same thing.

 

So, we ordered a brand new pair of the economy-type shoes and took them to the shoe repair place to have the soles reinforced and  "built up" and have the cheap taps that come with the shoes replaced with nicer ones. It took almost two weeks for the work to be done, required multiple trips back to the shop for my son to check the work and cost more than the shoes . . . and they fell apart within a couple of days.

 

We then took them to a different shoe repair shop (since my son had lost confidence in the first place) and paid yet again more than the shoes had originally cost to have the work patched up. That got my son through a single competition, before the shoes gave way again and my son "repaired" them with duct tape.

 

At that point, we decided to try ordering a pair of lightly used, better quality leather shoes from eBay. My son was a little icked out by the idea of having leather on his feet, but we decided since it didn't require sacrificing a cow that he could live with it. I checked eBay multiple times a day for days until an appropriate pair became available. I ordered them. They arrived. They more or less fit, but my son never did like the way they felt on his feet. And they still came apart within a couple of weeks. I offered the other day to try this approach again, but my son said he didn't think it was worth it.

 

So, he's back to the previous pair, which I believe are now more duct tape than vinyl. Honestly, I have days when I think he would do about as well just making himself a pair of duct tape shoes from scratch!

 

I have called and/or e-mailed every major dance shoe manufacturer asking if they have anything in their product lines that could, if necessary, be customized to be vegan-acceptable. Thus far, the only glimmer of hope I have is Capezio, except that the department that handles custom orders seems to be really terrible about responding to messages. I gave up last year after two or three rounds with them, and I've now been waiting for two days for a response to my latest attempt at contact.

 

(I chatted with another vegan tapper, who told me she did work with Capezio to reinforce and add taps to an existing pair of shoes. The whole process took three months, and the shoes that had fit fine when she turned them over for customization now hurt her feet.) 

 

We have also contacted a couple of places that advertise they can put taps on street shoes to investigate possibilities. However, every option my son likes gets shot down (wrong kind of sole, wrong shape, not strong enough, etc.). 

 

Seriously, I feel like I have spent a third of my life since my son started dancing looking for shoes of one kind or another. 

 

And it's really frustrating. He's talented at this. He works really hard at it, and he cares more about it than he does about pretty much anything else. He hopes to make a career as a performer specializing in tap dancing. Shoes are a pretty essential tool of his trade, and the best I can do is to keep telling him to make do. He deserves a great pair of tap shoes, and I keep failing at finding that for him.

 

Ugh.

 

Ah well. I should go get some sleep now so that I can be awake enough to call Capezio again in the morning.

 

Thanks for listening, all.

 

 

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One of our  friends is a rhythm tapper who I think puts her own taps on ... I know that she buys taps by the box, then sits around dropping the taps individually on the floor until she figures out which ones work well together, sort of like tuning a piano.  ANYWAY, surely he has someone like this in his life that he could discuss this with?  Our friend is adjunct faculty, and would probably love it if a student came in with questions like this (one of her constant comments is that most people really don't care about tap for itself, wanting to just learn enough show tap so they can go into musical theatre -- she'd go nuts with a student who loved tap as much as your son).  

 

 

 

 

 

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Rod at United Tap has a couple of YouTube videos on how to make tap shoes out of standard shoes.

 

Huh. I found his YouTube channel, but it seems to be all videos about certain steps and combinations. I didn't see anything about shoes. If you happen to have a link, I would really appreciate it?

 

Edit: Ooops! I think I found them. Thanks!

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One of our  friends is a rhythm tapper who I think puts her own taps on ... I know that she buys taps by the box, then sits around dropping the taps individually on the floor until she figures out which ones work well together, sort of like tuning a piano.  ANYWAY, surely he has someone like this in his life that he could discuss this with?  Our friend is adjunct faculty, and would probably love it if a student came in with questions like this (one of her constant comments is that most people really don't care about tap for itself, wanting to just learn enough show tap so they can go into musical theatre -- she'd go nuts with a student who loved tap as much as your son).  

 

Yeah, my son feels very much the same way. When he started looking at colleges, he really hoped he might find one that offered several levels of tap classes and opportunities to really study tap seriously. No such luck. 

 

He does at least a few intensives/master classes each year and always asks the instructors if they have suggestions for him about shoes. The usual response is that the instructor knows someone who knows someone who figured out a solution, but it always turns out that the solution isn't an option for my son for some reason. For example, one instructor confidently referred us to someone she knows who has her own line of dance shoes and could certainly do something for him. We got in touch right away, only to discover that the line of shoes had been discontinued the previous year.

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This is coming from a vegan who has vegan kids:

 

Buy the best pair of tap shoes available, regardless of whether they are made from leather. My son is an elite goalie. His pads are leather. They just are. It's a choice we have to make in order for him to do what he wants to do. Four-fifths of our family plays hockey. I have never checked to see what our skates are made from. My daughter spends about 12 hours a week in skates. We buy the best available to ensure that her feet are taken care of.

 

I have bursitis in my toe. I wear leather sneakers. I have tried about 5 different pairs of vegan sneakers, and none of them worked in alleviating the bursitis. I buy the shoes that allow me to walk without pain.

 

As a vegan, I do the best I can. If there are not acceptable vegan alternatives, I choose from what is available. Life is not perfect, and I can't turn myself in knots about it.

 

Additionally, your son is 16. If he insists on vegan dance shoes, he is old enough to do the legwork to find them.

 

Good luck!

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Sorry to hear that. I had a discussion along these lines last night about ballet shoes. It is surprising to me that at the cost per pair and pairs purchased per dancers a big shoe company hasn't jumped in with "state-of-the-art" materials. Seems like they could still make a profit...

 

Eta - probably still wouldn't be vegan, though, huh?

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This is coming from a vegan who has vegan kids:

 

Buy the best pair of tap shoes available, regardless of whether they are made from leather. My son is an elite goalie. His pads are leather. They just are. It's a choice we have to make in order for him to do what he wants to do. Four-fifths of our family plays hockey. I have never checked to see what our skates are made from. My daughter spends about 12 hours a week in skates. We buy the best available to ensure that her feet are taken care of.

 

I have bursitis in my toe. I wear leather sneakers. I have tried about 5 different pairs of vegan sneakers, and none of them worked in alleviating the bursitis. I buy the shoes that allow me to walk without pain.

 

As a vegan, I do the best I can. If there are not acceptable vegan alternatives, I choose from what is available. Life is not perfect, and I can't turn myself in knots about it.

 

Additionally, your son is 16. If he insists on vegan dance shoes, he is old enough to do the legwork to find them.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks, but he's just not willing to wear the leather if there is any possible way to avoid it. 

 

And I do the legwork because:

 

1. He's very busy with his college classes and activities (including starting a tap crew on campus), and I would much rather he devoted his energy to that.

2. I'm just better at research. I do most of this kind of work for most members of the family. When we buy a car, I do the research. When we want to move, I research rentals. It's just how we do things.

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Has he tried putting taps on a pair of canvas hip-hop sneakers?  They would have the articulated split sole that tap requires, and they are basically canvas for the tops and plastic/rubber for the soles.  I don't know if the taps could be fastened to the soles, though, but perhaps the soles could be removed and replaced with something suitable.

Another option is to make his own shoes.  This book is very, very good, and the author does shoemaking workshops.
 

http://smile.amazon.com/Crafting-Handmade-Shoes-Great-Looking-Slippers/dp/1579903789/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1423068263&sr=8-20&keywords=shoemaking

 

Her book is cheaper from her website.

 

Another list of possibly useful info is here.

One of my kids has had taps put on character shoes, which has worked well thus far.

If Peg-Leg Bates could figure out how to put taps on his prosthetic leg, there's hope for your ds!

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Has he tried putting taps on a pair of canvas hip-hop sneakers?  They would have the articulated split sole that tap requires, and they are basically canvas for the tops and plastic/rubber for the soles.  I don't know if the taps could be fastened to the soles, though, but perhaps the soles could be removed and replaced with something suitable.

 

Another option is to make his own shoes.  This book is very, very good, and the author does shoemaking workshops.

 

http://smile.amazon.com/Crafting-Handmade-Shoes-Great-Looking-Slippers/dp/1579903789/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1423068263&sr=8-20&keywords=shoemaking

 

Her book is cheaper from her website.

 

Another list of possibly useful info is here.

 

One of my kids has had taps put on character shoes, which has worked well thus far.

 

If Peg-Leg Bates could figure out how to put taps on his prosthetic leg, there's hope for your ds!

 

 

 

We've been told that it's difficult to put taps on sneakers, that they aren't durable once they are on and that the sound is not good. It's a shame, because they would be super comfortable!

 

My son loves Peg-Leg Bates!

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Not sure if a street shoe would work but I've heard Novacas are considered very durable and quality vegan men's shoe....

 

Wow, those do look nice!

 

Hmmm, maybe it's time to send a link to that page to a couple of the cobblers/dance shoe customization places and ask if any of those look like candidates for adding taps . . .

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Yeah, no kidding. If we could find someone local who seemed to know what he/she was doing and worked quickly, that person would be my best friend!

It might be worth a trip to find a guy.  Once you've worked out just the right shoe he'd have the specs to make what you need in the future without the drive.

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"Thanks, but he's just not willing to wear the leather if there is any possible way to avoid it. "

 

 

Would he be more willing if it was HIS time and money going into keeping him vegan-shod?  He has run you ragged over this. Time to either go with regular leather tap shoes or give up dancing. 

 

I mean, once he leaves college and is out in the real world, will he still expect you to take the time and find him shoes? No. Just stop doing it.  You are enabling his shoe veganisim.  Life will be easier for both of you if he just relents regarding his footwear. 

 

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You are enabling his shoe veganisim.  Life will be easier for both of you if he just relents regarding his footwear. 

 

 

You make it sound like a disease.

 

I believe the OP is also vegan.

 

I help my dc find sources of things they need. It's just harder because of the vegan restriction, but I don't see that "enabling".

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"Thanks, but he's just not willing to wear the leather if there is any possible way to avoid it. "

 

 

Would he be more willing if it was HIS time and money going into keeping him vegan-shod?  He has run you ragged over this. Time to either go with regular leather tap shoes or give up dancing. 

 

I mean, once he leaves college and is out in the real world, will he still expect you to take the time and find him shoes? No. Just stop doing it.  You are enabling his shoe veganisim.  Life will be easier for both of you if he just relents regarding his footwear. 

 

Well, I see it as "supporting," not enabling.

 

I agree with him, actually. I've been a vegan since before he was conceived and a vegetarian even longer (about 30 years now). I don't wear or consume animals products, either. Why on earth would I not support his ethical convictions in this?

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OP, you need to find the overlap between dance and vegan. There's got to be a cobbler who is familiar with this issue. Such a person might a very small business with little internet presence. I'm thinking there's a guy in NYC.

 

I'm sure you've been all over dance forums and vegan forums trying to get referrals.

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OP, you need to find the overlap between dance and vegan. There's got to be a cobbler who is familiar with this issue. Such a person might a very small business with little internet presence. I'm thinking there's a guy in NYC.

 

I'm sure you've been all over dance forums and vegan forums trying to get referrals.

 

You would think so, wouldn't you? 

 

If there is anyone, though, I have not yet had any luck finding him/her. I have asked around on dance forums and talked to all of the tappers and vegan dancers with whom we have contact. (I don't know of any vegan forums.) 

 

Just a couple of days ago, I reached out to the dance studio owner in Brooklyn who makes a line of vegan ballet shoes. (My son was her first customer outside her studio back when he was teeny and just starting to dance.) Dancers are her studio are required to wear vegan shoes, including for tap, but she has only younger, female students and she doesn't know of an option for my adult-sized, heavy-footed kid. She did put me in touch with a friend of hers who is a vegan and taps recreationally. However, the best she could offer was that she had managed to talk Capezio into putting taps on a pair of shoes she provided to them and that she isn't happy with how they turned out.

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I suspect in the long run that your son will end up needing to pick up the equipment for putting taps on shoes and do his own.   He would not be the first high-caliber athlete who ends up making his own equipment.  He should buy the absolute best quality shoes (vegan) he can find and plan on modifying them himself.  Good quality shoes would mean needing to replace less often.

 

Unless you would to take up vegan-cobbling as a long term hobby?    It could be a lucrative side business!

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Thanks, but he's just not willing to wear the leather if there is any possible way to avoid it. 

 

I understand. For us, it's unavoidable. My son can 1) wear leather pads or 2) quit hockey.

 

Sounds like your best option is to have him make his own shoes.

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I understand. For us, it's unavoidable. My son can 1) wear leather pads or 2) quit hockey.

 

My son has been in a position to have to wear leather shoes occasionally for a show. For example, back when he was doing The Nutcracker, the school used to insist on ordering new ballet slippers as part of every costume so that everyone would match. Some years, they ordered canvas (which still had leather soles), and other years they decided on leather ones. My son used to wear the required shoes for the performances, then give them to another boy with same-sized feet. Since they were worn for only maybe 10 or 12 performances, they were usually still in good condition, and it saved another boy from buying a pair of shoes later in the year.

 

It wasn't ideal, but the compromise worked for that situation. Similarly, he's worn leather shoes when they are part of a theater costume, but he isn't required to buy those, just to wear something from the theatre's collection.

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Dance shoes are awful!

 

On a side note, I always wanted to take ballet when I was growing up. I never got to. As an adult, I signed up for adult classes. Others had shoes so I bought them. They hurt my feet so bad! I would try to talk to the store and the person teaching the class and they said I would get used to it. I would go home and look at my feet and my big toes would be throbbing and red. I dropped out and have never done it since. I do not think my feet were meant to dance. 

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sounds frustrating

 

 

 

I read somewhere the other day that Ballet dancers go through a pair of shoes a day. No idea if this is true or not but if it is  then it must be a very expensive activity.

 

Only sort of true.

 

That is referring, I believe, only to pointe shoes. And even then only to pointe shoes worn by professional or near-professionals.  My son is a ballet dancer in a pre-professional company and because boys, in general, don't dance pointe, we only go through two or maybe three pairs of shoes in a year. If he were a professional I would expect one pair a month, but even then ballet flats are only about 25$ for men and women. Pointe shoes are 75-125$ a pair.  Some of the company girls go through a pair a month, and I think they are stretching them out as long as possible. I guess it is possible that professional dancers, male and female, also go through a pair of slippers a day, but I've never heard that, only with pointe.

 

When ballet parents get together, complaining about how much $$ we spend on ballet is a common theme, but I keep my mouth shut because I don't have to buy pointe shoes. And my kid tends to wear his shoes until they are more air than shoe, lol.

 

My son's company requires leather shoes for all dancers. I can buy canvas ballet shoes, but they are not part of the school uniform.

 

To the OP, I am so sorry. You have put so much time and effort and $$ into this that it is just ridiculous. I am curious, if you talked to other dancers, or parents of dancers, do they have similar issues with leather shoes? Because it might just be that tap shoes are crap. It might be that some really expensive ones last longer, but maybe you are not having a much different experience than anyone else, kwim? I hope you find a solution that works...or that you can at least live with.

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Dance shoes are awful!

 

On a side note, I always wanted to take ballet when I was growing up. I never got to. As an adult, I signed up for adult classes. Others had shoes so I bought them. They hurt my feet so bad! I would try to talk to the store and the person teaching the class and they said I would get used to it. I would go home and look at my feet and my big toes would be throbbing and red. I dropped out and have never done it since. I do not think my feet were meant to dance. 

 

Are you talking about pointe shoes?  Ballet flat shoes shouldn't hurt at all.  Dancers who wear pointe shoes have been training for years before they are allowed to "go up on pointe."  They have to be taking class at least 4 days a week for 1 1/2-2 hours a day before they get pointe shoes.  If you went out and bought pointe shoes and wore them before having the required time in ballet I can imagine it would be excruciating!! Also dangerous and you could very likely cause yourself serious injury!

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Dance shoes are awful!

 

On a side note, I always wanted to take ballet when I was growing up. I never got to. As an adult, I signed up for adult classes. Others had shoes so I bought them. They hurt my feet so bad! I would try to talk to the store and the person teaching the class and they said I would get used to it. I would go home and look at my feet and my big toes would be throbbing and red. I dropped out and have never done it since. I do not think my feet were meant to dance. 

 

Did you buy pointe shoes? Those are not for beginners. You have to be dancing for hours a week for months at a time before you do that.  I can't imagine a responsible school permitting a beginner to just show up for a pointe class. It requires a tremendous amount of core strength.

 

I know at my son's school sometimes the company girls take an 'adult beginner' class on pointe to log more hours on pointe (every little bit helps) but the adult beginners are most certainly not expected to dance on pointe. Honestly, I can't imagine the pointe teacher taking on an adult beginner. I am sure it happens, but not all that often.

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Maybe you need a different angle. Try tapping into the shoemaking community/forums instead of the dance community.

 

I find your dilemma fascinating for no good reason.

I do too. I hope you can find what he needs. My youth tap shoes were always vinyl, so I'm surprised there aren't adult ones too.

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Guest submarines

I see this young man making a line of quality vegan tap shoes and becoming rich in the process, still tap dancing all the while. 

 

It could happen!

 

Angie

former tap dancer

Yep! I was about to say, time to start his own vegan tap shoes company!

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For those following the saga: We found a pair of lightly used tap sneakers made by Capezio that have since been discontinued on eBay. I have read online that the reason they were discontinued is that dancers weren't happy with the sound. However, my son decided that they have to sound better than what he's getting now through the duct tape. So, I ordered them for him to try.

 

We also got a tip about another shoe repair place that is supposedly good with dance shoes, and I am going to try taking the ballroom shoes that we've been told can't be tapped up there tomorrow to see if there's anything we can do with those. 

 

Join us next time for "All My (Vegan) Tap Shoes."

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