Physics or math major--suggest colleges, please

[plansrme]

So my HS junior has previously confined her college search to schools where she might be able to compete in her sport.  After experiencing a career-ending injury yesterday, however, the field is now wide-open.  While we sit around being sad about the end of that chapter in her life, we are reexamining her college options as a fun diversion.  She will not qualify for need-based aid, but we're not paying $60K/year, either, so substantial merit aid is a necessity, meaning the Ivies, MIT and CalTech are out.  So, what schools offer merit aid (she has impressive stats and will certainly make NMSF), are outstanding in one or both of these fields and are better than Georgia Tech?  She loves Tech, where she is doing dual-enrollment, so that's the leading contender at the moment.  Its only disadvantage is that it's just down the road from us.

 

So, Hive, where should she look?  U of Arizona popped up on a random Google search for undergraduate physics departments, and she would get automatic merit aid for NMSF status there.  We (by which I mean, "I") love automatic awards.

 

Any other tips for a future physics or math major?  Bring 'em on.  Give us something to do while we wait for surgery and rehab to begin.

[dhudson]

Colorado School of Mines has an impressive Math program.

[Sunshine State Sue]

After experiencing a career-ending injury yesterday

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Ouch.

 

I am probably not much help, mostly I wanted to offer sympathy.  I know how important the sport is and what a disappointment the injury must be.

 

I just spoke to my niece yesterday who is in her 2nd year of a PHD program at University of Arizona State for Environmental Science.  Her undergrad was at Franklin & Marshall.  Her mom had told me the previous day that this dd was having a bit of a difficult time due to the size and research focus of the school.  Sounded like the professors were so busy with their own research that they had no time to guide her.  Having read creekland's posts regarding research universities, I asked my niece about the difference between being at F&M and being at a large research university.  She told me that the undergrads struggle at U of A ASU because the professors are hired for their research abilities, not their teaching abilities.  F&M had awesome professors who taught well and were excellent mentors.  She hadn't found a particular mentor yet at U of A, but several professors offered her some assistance.

 

HTH!

Edited March 24, 2016 by Sue in St Pete

[plansrme]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Ouch.

 

I am probably not much help, mostly I wanted to offer sympathy.  I know how important the sport is and what a disappointment the injury must be.

 

I just spoke to my niece yesterday who is in her 2nd year of a PHD program at University of Arizona for Environmental Science.  Her undergrad was at Franklin & Marshall.  Her mom had told me the previous day that this dd was having a bit of a difficult time due to the size and research focus of the school.  Sounded like the professors were so busy with their own research that they had no time to guide her.  Having read creekland's posts regarding research universities, I asked my niece about the difference between being at F&M and being at a large research university.  She told me that the undergrads struggle at U of A because the professors are hired for their research abilities, not their teaching abilities.  F&M had awesome professors who taught well and were excellent mentors.  She hadn't found a particular mentor yet at U of A, but several professors offered her some assistance.

 

HTH!

 

Thank you for the sympathy.  We know that, in the long run, it will work out for the best.  But in the short run?  It is like a piece of her heart has been ripped out and shredded.

 

Good point about small versus large also.  I will encourage her to look at some smaller schools.

[8filltheheart]

So sorry to hear about your dd's injury.  That has got to be awful.  I know from your posts that her sport was important to her.

 

 I have no answers for you in terms of schools.  Since ds did not win one of the major scholarships, GT would have been full OOS cost for us which meant it had to be eliminated from his list.   I will share the major negative comment ds had toward GT (other than cost) was that the dean of the physics dept was very forthright that undergrad research opportunities are slim.  The dean said that they focus on their grad students when it comes to research.  

 

B/c of $$, we had to focus on merit $$.  None of the schools are ranked higher than GT, but many do have better research opportunities for undergrads if that matters to your dd.

 

BUT, I did want to offer something that might be a positive distraction for your dd.   Has she ever heard of SSP?  http://www.summerscience.org/admissions/index.php Maybe she could spend some time filling out summer camp applications.

[plansrme]

 

 

BUT, I did want to offer something that might be a positive distraction for your dd.   Has she ever heard of SSP?  http://www.summerscience.org/admissions/index.php Maybe she could spend some time filling out summer camp applications.

 

Well that is intriguing.  I'll show it to her in the morning.  Thanks!

[Sunshine State Sue]

I just spoke to my niece yesterday

 

P.S. This niece was radically homeschooled all her life.  She took dual enrollment classes at CC, a private LAC, and fashion design school, and refused to take the ACT/SAT.  So far, she's the only one of my 18 or so nieces/nephews who is pursing a PHD. 

 

[8filltheheart]

Well that is intriguing.  I'll show it to her in the morning.  Thanks!

 

Ds LOVED every minute of it.  He still keeps in touch with many of his friends from camp.  Definitely would distract her this summer!  He said if she has any questions, he would be happy to talk to her.

[Kathy in Richmond]

So sorry to hear about your daughter's injury, plansrme. My heart breaks for her! :grouphug:

 

Some schools that she might want to consider: Rice, Wash U (St Louis), Duke (Robertson Scholars), Vanderbilt. All these have limited #s of merit scholarships, but she should be competitive. Emory is probably too close to home? How about small LACs with strong math? St Olaf has merit and a great math department. One of my friends has a very strong student studying math at Scripps on substantial merit aid, and that has the benefit of cross registration at Harvey Mudd and other schools in the Claremont consortium. My alma mater, U Rochester, is exceptional in math and physics. Once upon a time, I went on a full tuition scholarship for merit. I know that they still give non need-based aid, but I'm not sure how big the amounts are now. I do know that they like to see demonstrated interest.

 

If she likes Morley's class this term & is interested in summer camps, she might want to check out math camps, too:

Canada/USA Mathcamp

SUMaC

Promys

[Teachin'Mine]

:grouphug: :grouphug:  to you and your daughter. 

 

For NMSF there are some colleges which offer full or half tuition and lots of others with some smaller merit scholarships.  Franklin & Marshall used to offer merit aid, but now it's all need based, so likely not a good choice for your situation, but the rigor and academics are good.  There are threads on CC with lists of colleges offering good merit aid.

 

Here's an archived post which has some great options listed.  I'd pay attention to the state universities which offer free tuition or low in-state tuition to out of state nmf students and the private ones like Northeastern, USC, Boston U, U Rochester, WPI, Case Western (not on the list but offers good merit aid), etc.  This list is a few years old, so check for current into.  There's likely a more current list on CC as well and I'm guessing you already have this list available but posting it here in case it helps anyone.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/207409-national-merit-scholars-merit-aid-at-schools/

 

From what I've read, if you go down a bit in selectivity, some of those colleges offer great merit aid to attract the high performing and high stats students.  When she's on the other side of surgery and rehab, she should try to visit a variety of colleges and universities to get a feel for what types and locations she prefers. I'd also approach making the list by looking at top math/science colleges and seeing which of those offer merit aid.  Harvey Mudd should definitely be considered. Not sure if Emory is too close, but they have some great merit scholarships.

 

A fun way to research colleges is to do the virtual tours.  College Prowler has video tours available for many of them and those can give her a bit of a feel for the colleges and take her mind off her current situation a bit.   Hoping her surgery is successful and she recovers quickly.  :grouphug:

 

[Laura in CA]

Ds LOVED every minute of it.  He still keeps in touch with many of his friends from camp.  Definitely would distract her this summer!  He said if she has any questions, he would be happy to talk to her.

 

Another enthusiastic former SSP-er here. I loved camp and had never experienced anything remotely like it. SSP truly changed the course of my life. I'm still involved with camp leadership as a volunteer many years later! :)

 

And I know that the camps Kathy recommends are awesome, as well!

[TravelingChris]

My dd is applying to St. Olaf's as one of her schools for physics.  It is ranked very highly for that and yes, they have merit awards too.  Other schools she is applying too with merit awards are Rhodes College, Agnes Scott, and Worcester Polytechnic.  All also have math.    I think we may look for another for her to apply to this week but my dd has very special requirements due to her medical problems along with her dyslexia and right now I am very happy with her choices.  (She was talking to me tonight about how she is very nervous about getting through college and kept saying she likes the colleges she is applying too very much but was worried about flunking out---I told her I wasn't since I had carefully made sure that every college she was applying to had a way for her to succeed- through such means as project based learning, lighter class loads for dyslexics, etc, etc). 

[creekland]

I'm also offering my  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  regarding her career ending injury.

 

Otherwise, there's not much I can add.  The list of schools above mentions all I thought of as being quite good with potential for merit aid.

 

I suspect U Alabama would be worth considering.  Their Honors program is very worth looking at and their merit aid is superb.  I don't know how they compare to Arizona, but I know I hear more about Alabama (that could be due to our east coast location).  "8" can fill you in more on her guy's experience at U Alabama, of course.

 

And Hive member Catherine's son is currently majoring in math at U Rochester.  We met him this past Thanksgiving when we carpooled giving him a ride back to school.  He enjoys his program and has been involved in research there.  Physics (esp optics/lasers) is also big there.  Roughly 80% of undergrads do research at U Roc and it is heavily promoted as a focus of the school.  Middle son isn't math/physics, but he loves it there including the research he is working on (correlated with other researchers from both US and worldwide schools).  The main question will be how much merit aid is offered as that can vary a bit.  There's a minimum amount for NMF, but it's not as big as U Alabama.

 

I know a couple of people (one in Physics) who enjoyed Franklin & Marshall, but yes, they've eliminated merit aid, so it wasn't a school for us.

[plansrme]

Thanks for the suggestions. We will look at all of them. Well, other than U of Alabama. And to clarify, she does not have to have a full ride, though of course that would be lovely. Unless she gets one of the major Tech scholarships (which seems unlikely, as she pretty much has had the one extracurricular that she can't do any more), Tech is not free, either. It is just such a deal. They also would accept all of her APs and, I am pretty sure, her DE credit (she would have three full semesters of DE), so she would have plenty of time to double major, research, intern, etc., and still graduate on time.

 

Thanks for the sympathy as well. It has been so much harder than I would have imagined, but she will be fine. Eventually!

[kiana]

St. Olaf was mentioned above for physics but it is also good for math. They also run the Budapest Semesters in Mathematics program -- students at other colleges can go, but they run it -- which is an AMAZING study abroad experience for anyone in mathematics. 

[Sunshine State Sue]

Colorado School of Mines has an impressive Math program.

 

Ds is at Mines (and loves it).  He is considering Mechanical Engineering right now.  Had D1 basketball been possible for him, I would have rooted for Georgia Tech.  OOS tuition is $30K but OOS students with high stats earn $15K academic scholarship.  Just a thought...

 

I found graduate outcomes interesting when we were searching for schools.

 

Good luck!

[MorningGlory]

So my HS junior has previously confined her college search to schools where she might be able to compete in her sport.  After experiencing a career-ending injury yesterday, however, the field is now wide-open.  

Any other tips for a future physics or math major?  Bring 'em on.  Give us something to do while we wait for surgery and rehab to begin.

 

I don't have anything to add to the wonderful ideas generated above; I just wanted to say that I am so sorry. (((((HUGS))))) to both you and your daughter. I have always enjoyed reading your quick-witted posts; I pray that your sense of humor will help your family through this gut-wrenching time. 

 

My junior son also is considering math as a major...but more in the statistical/actuarial direction. He has narrowed the field down to small liberal arts colleges within a 5 hour drive from our home. ;-) 

 

Does your daughter *want* to go away to school? 

[Butler]

I don't know your daughter's level in either math or physics but I wanted to add that if she is very advanced then getting research opportunities at a big university might not be as hard as for the average undergrad student. I wouldn't rule the big schools out. My son, at a large research university, entered very advanced. Once it become known by the profs that he was more than capable, he has not had a problem. Just about everything he does now is with grad students.

 

Since we are mentioning summer programs for physics I just had to throw in this one:

 

http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/outreach/students/programs/international-summer-school-young-physicists

 

It's two weeks at the Perimeter Institute in Canada with side trips to the Sno Lab ( underground lab specializing in neutrino and dark matter physics) and other places. The cost is only $500 but there is financial aid if that's still too much. The program itself, is worth much more. There are only 40 students selected (20 from Canada, 20 international) so it is competitive.

[8filltheheart]

I'm sure GT woul accept all of her credits. They were willing to accept Ds's, so it should be a non-issue for your dd. I would definitely ask a lot of questions in terms of research if she seriously wants physics research. Ds spoke with the dean of the physics dept for over an hour. Since the university where ds DE does not have a grad physics program, the research he was able to participate in was pretty awesome. The dean told him he would not be able to have the same sort of experiences at GT BC that is what their grad students do. He was very clear that what ds was used to was atypical for undergrad. He said working for a grad student was the most likely scenario. He was an incredibly nice man. Very helpful. Ds asked him questions he didn't know the answer to immediately and he emailed him all of the answers.

 

Depending on your budget, there are some other great options that would be in the $30,000 range after pretty much guaranteed scholarship $$ or after dept scholarships.

 

ETA: I was typing when Butler posted. Being on campus and demonstrating yourself might open up more doors in terms of research. I can't answer that question. But in terms of coursework completed when ds was talking to the dept, ds will only have 2 undergrad physics courses left at the end of his freshman yr. The dean is the one who confirmed they would accept his credits, so he did know ds had advanced standing. What he didn't know was ds's actual passion and talent. That is what profs see in the classroom and causes them to invite him to their offices and share books and stuff with him. That might have opened up more opportunities for him than the dean stated.

[Butler]

Yes, you probaly have to sell yourself a bit in the beginning. One of the thngs mine did was to read the texts/publications written by various department profs in whose research he was interested. Then he would go to their office hours to discuss. This helped to open up a lot of doors for him.

[8filltheheart]

This link might be helpful. http://physics-schools.com/bachelor

[Caroline]

University of Maryland? It is an urban campus, like GT, but a totally different kind of urban.

 

I am so sorry about her injury. I know that must be devastating right now.

[Lilaclady]

Sorry to hear about your dd's injury. :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Teachin'Mine]

OP if they give good merit aid for her NM status and she doesn't mind attending college locally, GT should definitely be on her list.  It's rated by US News for graduate programs in physics and math at 29 and 28 respectively.  She would have the added bonus of having connections with professors already from her DE classes there and her advanced status should help her stand out for research opportunities.  GT would be an amazing option for her academically.

[Trilliums]

So sorry to hear about your D's injury.  I hope she recovers quickly.

 

Son is a senior NMSF also interested in physics, maybe math or cs as minor.

 

I think University of Arizona only offered reduction of out of state tuition (not a full ride) along with the opportunity to apply for a more generous scholarship (more along the lines for free tuition).  Arizona State U and UT Dallas sent mail indicating big awards for NMSF, I think these were full tuition, but don't quote me.   Son also received mailing from several small, local colleges stating he could receive full tuition scholarships if he made it to NM status (can't remember what exactly they call the last tier).  USC (Univ. Southern CA) offered half tuition, but that is still a lot of tuition money.  These were all schools that sent unsolicited mail about NMSF.  He did not actually apply so we do not know if they would have ended up offering even more generous aid.   We have family in AZ and TX so we did read through the info from those schools.

 

Son pretty much eliminated these schools though because he has already received free tuition and has applied for full ride at our local U (where he is dual enrolled and volunteers in a lab).  He actually is interested in going away for college but these schools would all be big unknowns and what we have locally is comparable.  He is hoping for some good news from the private schools where he applied, keeping fingers crossed!

[Kareni]

My sympathies to your daughter on her injury.  I wish her a successful surgery and recovery.

 

I'll just toss out that one of my daughter's friends majored in math at Bryn Mawr College and enjoyed her time there.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Laurel-in-CA]

Harvey Mudd, in Claremont, CA. My brother majored in physics there, transferring in from Rose-Hulman in Terre Haute, IN. He liked R-H, but hated the winters there and was happier closer to home. Mudd is part of a 5-college consortium with several small LACs and students can pick and choose classes and activities among the schools.

[Caroline]

I just remembered that a good friend majored in physics at Mount Holyoke. She went to grad school at GT in materials engineering, and that is how I met her. She loved her time at Mount Holyoke.

[plansrme]

I just remembered that a good friend majored in physics at Mount Holyoke. She went to grad school at GT in materials engineering, and that is how I met her. She loved her time at Mount Holyoke.

 

Apparently there is a shortage of ink at Mt. Holyoke.  She gets mailings from them regularly, and they have very few words.  It's more of a headline than an actual communication.  

 

And to clarify my disparaging comment about Bama above--I am a dyed-in-the-wool Auburn fan.  My kids know if they go to Alabama, they are dead to me.  I kid, I kid!  Sort of.

 

Thanks again for all of the suggestions.  We are looking at everything that has beensuggested.

[Angie in VA]

Harvey Mudd, in Claremont, CA. My brother majored in physics there, transferring in from Rose-Hulman in Terre Haute, IN. He liked R-H, but hated the winters there and was happier closer to home. Mudd is part of a 5-college consortium with several small LACs and students can pick and choose classes and activities among the schools.

 

Harvey Mudd was my first thought too. 

 

I'm so sorry your dd had any injury, but a career-ending injury? How awful. 

[Tsuga]

So sorry about your daughter's sport career. That is incredibly hard to face for a high schooler.

 

Where do you live?

 

I know two people who went to Harvey Mudd--amazing people and they loved their college experience.

 

It's pretty selective though. I'm not sure you'd get the merit aid you're looking for but I know nothing about their financial aid. Just know the people who went there are usually really cool!

 

 

[plansrme]

 

 

Where do you live?

 

 

 

Atlanta, which is why Georgia Tech is both so enticing and not.  She is doing DE there right now and loves it.

[lmrich]

There was a Modern Family episode that kind of addressed your daughter's issue. Sorry I do not know the episode; it was this year. It involved Alex looking at colleges, and how she did not want to go to the local college simply because it was local. She talked to a guy on the tour who basically said, pick the best school for you no matter the location, if you can afford it.

 

Georgia Tech is great. (period) I tell my son Tech is awfully far away if you do not have a car. (we live close by as well, but he could not walk it - well he could but it is more than 15 miles - dh could run that far but not my son)

 

Good luck on your new search. Sorry about the injury. I hope she is pain free. 

[8filltheheart]

 

And to clarify my disparaging comment about Bama above--I am a dyed-in-the-wool Auburn fan.  My kids know if they go to Alabama, they are dead to me.  I kid, I kid!  Sort of.

 

 

No offense taken.   :)  While ds absolutely loves it there and CBH is fabulous program, in reality he is a very large fish in that pond.  

[Laura in CA]

This link might be helpful. http://physics-schools.com/bachelor

 

 

 

I found graduate outcomes interesting when we were searching for schools.

 

 

Interesting that the no. 1 school in 8FtH's link and the no. 2 school in Sue's link is my son's college, Berkeley. I didn't know it was ranked so high for physics. I wonder if that is partly due to the graduate program's reputation. Anyway, my son LOVES it there, but a UC would not fit your $$$ criterion. It is affordable for us only b/c we are in-state (whereas GA Tech was completely unaffordable for us, as OOS, even though my son was intrigued by that school). My son is studying math and CS, but he has many friends who are physics majors, and they are very happy with the program there. (Just FYI for others reading this thread.)

 

Sorry about your daughter's injury, and best wishes finding a good match for her!

[plansrme]

We have both been perusing all of the suggestions you guys have made, and we keep exchanging texts about Co School of Mines. It sounds just like her--no warm fuzzies, lots of data. She might or might not have noticed that it is a whopping 73% male. . ..

[kiana]

We have both been perusing all of the suggestions you guys have made, and we keep exchanging texts about Co School of Mines. It sounds just like her--no warm fuzzies, lots of data. She might or might not have noticed that it is a whopping 73% male. . ..

 

Good school ... and good odds! ;)

[MarkT]

Atlanta, which is why Georgia Tech is both so enticing and not.  She is doing DE there right now and loves it.GT

GT is a highly regarded STEM school and is in-state for you - so should be on your short list!

 

She should consider Engineering as well (better job prospects)

[plansrme]

GT is a highly regarded STEM school and is in-state for you - so should be on your short list!

 

She should consider Engineering as well (better job prospects)

Well, yes--that is where she is doing DE right now, and from where she will have three semesters of credit. She loves Tech, but getting out of Atlanta for a while would be a plus.

[Caroline]

Well, yes--that is where she is doing DE right now, and from where she will have three semesters of credit. She loves Tech, but getting out of Atlanta for a while would be a plus.

I think she is in a unique position to get an amazing undergrad experience from two schools. She can have her Georgia Tech credits and perhaps University of Michigan credits, too. My DS looked into Michigan, but after visiting his cousin at Michigan State in February, decided the whole state was just too cold for him. (He'll probably end up being an engineer for Ford and living there in the future just because he thinks that. Ha ha.) I love having DS close by so I can pop down and have lunch with him once a month, but I sometimes wish he had gone elsewhere to get something different. I hope he will for grad school. But, unlike your DD, he might not have been ready to go so far from home.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My BIL did his physics undergrad at Miami University then went on to do his graduate and doctoral work at Washington University in St Louis.

[Hoggirl]

Just wanted to say that I am so sorry about your dd's injury. :(

[Mabelen]

The University of Arizona has effectively the same tuition deal for NMF as ASU. AU's acceptance in the Honors Program is automatic while ASU's is not. My dd and I visited both last year. We went in thinking we'd like AU better but came out with ASU's Barrett's Honors College on top. We were not looking at the math or Physics departments.

[daijobu]

 

 

 

... my son's college, Berkeley. I didn't know it was ranked so high for physics. I wonder if that is partly due to the graduate program's reputation. 

 

OT question:  I've been hearing that it's difficult for engineering students at the UCs to graduate in 4 years because they are cutting back on the frequency with which required classes are offered.  If there are fewer sections offered, it's harder to schedule it all and graduate in 4 years, even if you arrive at UC well-prepared academically and don't need to retake classes.

 

This is just a rumor I heard.  Do you know if your DS has heard anything like this at UCB?  

[MarkT]

The University of Arizona has effectively the same tuition deal for NMF as ASU. AU's acceptance in the Honors Program is automatic while ASU's is not. My dd and I visited both last year. We went in thinking we'd like AU better but came out with ASU's Barrett's Honors College on top. We were not looking at the math or Physics departments.

"UofA" not "AU"  despite our poor showing in the Fiesta Bowl :(

 

both ASU and UA would probably recognize the GT credits

[MarkT]

Well, yes--that is where she is doing DE right now, and from where she will have three semesters of credit. She loves Tech, but getting out of Atlanta for a while would be a plus.

there is always graduate school or a semester abroad (England??) or a summer research study at a northern school to get away - the grass isn't always greener, if she likes it that's a plus

[Artichoke]

University of Alabama Huntsville has amazing opportunities for research, internships, and travel. Merit aid is amazing as well. You might want to check it out.

[Mabelen]

"UofA" not "AU" despite our poor showing in the Fiesta Bowl :(

 

both ASU and UA would probably recognize the GT credits

Yes, sorry. I don't even know why I wrote it like that!

[Laurel-in-CA]

OT question:  I've been hearing that it's difficult for engineering students at the UCs to graduate in 4 years because they are cutting back on the frequency with which required classes are offered.  If there are fewer sections offered, it's harder to schedule it all and graduate in 4 years, even if you arrive at UC well-prepared academically and don't need to retake classes.

 

This is just a rumor I heard.  Do you know if your DS has heard anything like this at UCB?  

 

It's hard to finish in 4 years at most state schools in CA. Five or 6 years is more like it. This is one of the advantages of choosing a private school; you're more likely to get done because they scale classes to majors. This is also why a lot of students do their first 2-3 years at community colleges, which have very standardized transfer agreements with the state schools. You know what you're getting at a CC and you usually get it a LOT cheaper. It's just not the 4-year college experience, but ds has taken his "gap year" as an extra year at CC and has been able to take classes for fun or career possibility that didn't necessarily fit into a given major. He was one of those who was very unsure about his direction when he started anyway. CC has been a good thing.

[Laura in CA]

OT question: I've been hearing that it's difficult for engineering students at the UCs to graduate in 4 years because they are cutting back on the frequency with which required classes are offered. If there are fewer sections offered, it's harder to schedule it all and graduate in 4 years, even if you arrive at UC well-prepared academically and don't need to retake classes.

 

This is just a rumor I heard. Do you know if your DS has heard anything like this at UCB?

 

Definitely NOT true at Berkeley. (But yes, definitely true at some Cal States.) In fact, students at UCB are not even permitted to stay enrolled longer than 8 semesters ... You get 9 semesters only if you're double-majoring.

 

I'm not sure if this is because Berkeley is the flagship campus ... or if it's true for all UCs. I'll find more info and link to it later. (Running off to see a movie now! :) )

 

My son says it is true that there are fewer offerings of each class now (since the big budget cuts a few years ago); the classes are still offered each semester, but they just made the class size larger; but even the large classes are broken down into recitation sections of no more than 20 students. He says it is manageable. I'm not explaining this well, sorry -- I mean that until recently, for a given class, you would have had your choice of a several lecture times taught by different full professors; now there is only one, maybe two choices for the main lecture.

 

ETA: OK, here's the link. It's not as cut-and-dried as I thought (not surprisingly!). I guess I should say that my son knows a lot of engineering students, and none of them are having trouble finishing in 8 semesters. It sounds like it is possible to enroll for subsequent semesters, but that it's not encouraged, and even so there is a unit ceiling. Perhaps if a student has had some difficulties passing courses or has changed majors, he or she would need a bit more time.

 

 

But yes, we do know students at CSUs who are taking 5+ years to finish (albeit at a much lower tuition than a UC or private school -- about $5k/yr). A young woman we know double-majored at a CSU in ballet and English, and some semesters was taking all dance classes, and other semesters was taking all English classes, because of scheduling conflicts, instead of what she wanted to do, which was to spread her classes out with more variety. Perhaps because this CSU is a commuter school, they are overenrolled and this causes the issues? All I know is, my son has had no problem getting all his classes so far, if not with the lecture section with the "dream professors" such as Ed Frenkel, which filled up before he registered. (When he declares his math major, he should have priority for the sought-after lecture sections :) ... he could declare now, but "undeclared" students have priority for enrollment in the large general classes such as history and classics, so he wants to make sure he takes those with his friends. Obviously one has to be on the ball and not miss any windows, but so far he's doing fine, and it should just get better as he declares his math/CS majors and has higher priority as an upperclassman for registration ...)