Dianne-TX Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 taken issue with me regarding our choice to homeschool. She is a teacher. Several years ago, before our children were school aged, I had come to the decision to homeschool after lots and lots of researching and reading. John Taylor Gatto and a book regarding the biblical responsibility I had as a parent as well, brought dh and I to the conclusion that this was a deep conviction and made complete sense. In general conversation with this family member, this came up and I was so excited to share the info. I was passionate about it. I spoke about the history of public education, the present public education system, etc. Well, fast forward to years later when another incident occurred that made her angry (notice a trend here?), I called her and asked if I had done something to offend her. Well, the dam broke and she went on and on about everything I've ever done "to her" including talking about the public education system, of which she is an employee, so therefore, I was of course insulting her along with it. I must say, too, that everything she shared that hurt her feelings or that I had done were things that were my life choices or just who I was. Basically, my existence offends her. Ho-hum. In true examination of myself, I cannot find anything direct that I've done to hurt her in my entire life. That is not who I am. If I do realize I've offended or it's brought to my attention, I seek to reconcile. In a recent visit with this family member, along with others, it appears this family member still has a beef with my life choice to home school, mainly her issue lies with my disagreement with public education. I do not wear homeschooling as my badge or identity. I do not walk around as a poster child for homeschooling. I'm not a walking griper about public education. There is so much more to my life than homeschooling. So, I would love to find an article speaking about the issue of everyone making life choices that are convictions or personal choices, not attacks. It could be about homeschooling or not. I just want to try one more time to reconcile and maybe help her see her irrationality of judging my decision as a personal attack on her. I hope this made sense. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 In addition, she posted a video in defense of the "new math" and common core. I've not followed the common core debacle closely, but I know it's not good. If you anyone could give me something to share about that, too, that would be great. Just a few things to just keep explaining the other side. I won't over do it, but want to respond. Thanks! I'll try and link the video and then maybe someone can give their critique or response to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Don't respond. Don't do it. Please, don't do it. I would say, "We are making the best choice for our children at this time. We respect your choices and expect that you will respect ours." Then pass the bean dip. This person has serious boundary issues, and the only way to address that is to refuse to discuss homeschooling (or public school, common core, etc). If you engage her, then you are sending the message that your choice to homeschool is up for discussion and debate. Don't do it. Just walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Here's the video... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Don't respond. Don't do it. Please, don't do it. I would say, "We are making the best choice for our children at this time. We respect your choices and expect that you will respect ours." Then pass the bean dip. This person has serious boundary issues, and the only way to address that is to refuse to discuss homeschooling (or public school, common core, etc). If you engage her, then you are sending the message that your choice to homeschool is up for discussion and debate. Don't do it. Just walk away. I agree, but it's hard not to, especially after thinking we had moved on after all these years and here we are still. Sigh. I know not responding is the best. I should just keep going as I have and keep moving forward with life. Not saying anything is the best answer. It's so hard to not say anything. I think I want to reconcile more than she does. Move on... I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 In some ways it sounds like she is right. Instead of just pointing to homeschooling as one choice you've made that is the best for your family at this time, you've shared with her your views that the public education system is deeply flawed. This is a system that she is highly invested in. I would just go back to talking about homeschooling as being one choice that you've made that is best for your family at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Public school doesn't need to be deeply flawed for homeschooling to be the right choice for your particular children and family. I think that's where you went wrong. She is defending her life passion. Did you bring up common core and math? Why does she think you are opposed to it? Most of the top math programs people use here are aligned to common core fwiw. Did you watch the video? Do you really disagree with his points? Compliment her commitment to her students. They are surely fortunate to have someone like her in their corner. Then pass the bean dip. Rinse and repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I haven't read all the other responses, but my advice would be to totally leave this alone. Don't do anything. This person has an inferiority complex. No matter what you say, or do, or show her, it will just reinforce her defensiveness. In fact, showing her statistics or articles by professionals refuting or questioning her ideals, or affirming that your choices are valid alternatives will just add fuel to the fire and make things worse. There are no valid alternatives for this person. There are no alternative life choices that are as good as hers because if there are then maybe she's wrong or she will feel she's doing something wrong and that can't happen with a person like her. Please just let things be. Don't stir the pot (although I don't think that's why you want to do this). Don't bring up her "trigger" issues in her presence. Talk about the weather or anything else and just avoid "hot" topics. With a person like this, IMHO, it's best just to let sleeping dogs....well...sleep to preserve the peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Agree with the others to not defend yourself. Apologize for offending her though, because you clearly did, and I can see why! When you are vocally opposed to a system based off what you've read in books, it can be terribly insulting to someone who actually works in that system and likely gets paid peanuts for one of the hardest jobs in the world. Imagine if someone read a book about overpopulation and passionately spouted off about how families should never have more than two kids, while you are standing there with your four. Of course it feels like a personal attack. Or what if someone railed about the healthcare system being corrupt and a nurse or doctor was standing there? What if she had gotten up on her soapbox about the inherent flaws in homeschooling? How would that have been more offensive than what you said to her? I have tons of educators in my family. Dh's mom, sister, and brother are classroom teachers, as is his cousin's wife, his aunt and his uncle. My sister's husband is a classroom teacher, and Dh has his M Ed. and was a classroom teacher for a couple of years. I don't think I have ever offended anyone in the family (at least they've never seemed offended). I recognize that they chose teaching because they want kids to succeed, which is why I am teaching my own. We're all on the same side. I know they are sometimes envious about the choices and autonomy I have (and I'm envious of their pay and ability to clock out at the end of the day!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I think the attitude that public teachers are just after tax revenue or feel inferior perpetuated by homeschoolers might be why some are quick to take offense at the topic of homeschool. I have received some of my best guidance from a former ps teacher. We both love kids and want the best for them- hers, mine, or theirs. I don't need to bash other professionals to feel good about what I do and why. You should homeschool for your personal reasons and make sure to leave grand statistical arguments out of it, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Why do you feel compelled to fight with this woman? You offended her. She will not let this drop unless you stop defending your choice as superior. Walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahW Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 In general conversation with this family member, this came up and I was so excited to share the info. I was passionate about it. I spoke about the history of public education, the present public education system, etc. You were a new "convert" and "evangelized" too passionately. It happens. Now you do need to reconcile. You apologize for what you said and how you said it. Tell her that you have your own philosophy of education, but you don't think she or what she does is wrong or evil (you don't, do you?). If you have a meal with her over the holidays, ask her inquiry questions only (how does CC affect her? has she discovered any new good literature lately?) and don't argue or negate her with your own opinions. Eventually, you may come to have 1-1 conversations, but not now. These things take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I agree with some of the previous posters about not responding in the way that you are hoping to. I fully understand why, when you got really excited about your carefully researched and thought out choice to homeschool, you rushed to show her all the great things you think about homeschooling and why it is such a wonderful choice. I truly get it. But it sounds like you weren't saying that your particular children and your particular family would like to try homeschooling and just left it at that. It sounds like you hit her with all the reasons why you don't want to put them in public school. That you were showing her all the flaws with public school in general. You basically were saying that her passion, her life's work, is so flawed that you wouldn't even consider putting your kids in that environment. I know you didn't mean to, but you put her on the defensive right from the beginning. ANYTHING positive you say about homeschooling is going to sound like a slap in the face to her, like you are trying again to prove that your choice is the best choice for everyone, not just your family, even if you don't phrase it that way. You cannot win this. The only chance you might have to smooth things over (and this is no guarantee) is to talk positively about HER choice to teach in ps and HER passion for teaching in general and maybe to discuss how you think it is wonderful that families have a choice to educate their children in many different ways here in the U.S. including the option of public school. You cannot defend homeschooling to her at this point. Maybe someday. But not now. You will only create an even bigger wedge between you. Hugs and best wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 You need not have the last word. Her opinion can stand as well as yours. Just walk away. Do not engage. There are some wonderful PS systems and teachers. I can see how she was offended, especially if you have been quite vocal. She is allowed to be offended and she is allowed to share her opinion as are you. If she bothers you so, by all means unfollow her on fb so you don't see her posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 I haven't read all the other responses, but my advice would be to totally leave this alone. Don't do anything. This person has an inferiority complex. No matter what you say, or do, or show her, it will just reinforce her defensiveness. In fact, showing her statistics or articles by professionals refuting or questioning her ideals, or affirming that your choices are valid alternatives will just add fuel to the fire and make things worse. There are no valid alternatives for this person. There are no alternative life choices that are as good as hers because if there are then maybe she's wrong or she will feel she's doing something wrong and that can't happen with a person like her. Please just let things be. Don't stir the pot (although I don't think that's why you want to do this). Don't bring up her "trigger" issues in her presence. Talk about the weather or anything else and just avoid "hot" topics. With a person like this, IMHO, it's best just to let sleeping dogs....well...sleep to preserve the peace. I'm learning that this is a lot of it in many ways with her. I'm not the only one and nor is this the only topic. I do want to just help her see that I'm not personally attacking her. I'm thankful for teachers, I've told her that. I've told her that she is a wonderful teacher as are there many others. My mother was a teacher and she does not have this problem. In fact, she agrees and not just because I'm her daughter. She was in it and wished they would have chosen homeschooling for us. Do you know how many families that I know that homeschool and the husband is a teacher? I haven't talked about school with her except for years ago and that was just in a general conversation about lots of other things. She asked why I was thinking about homeschooling. I didn't go on the attack, just explained all I learned and read, etc... I answered her question. I left the conversation without any knowledge that I had offended her because I was asked. I didn't attack her or teachers. Granted, I was young and wet behind the ears when it came to this topic. I've learned along the way to "pass the bean dip" and never to enter the conversation. It rarely goes well. So, I've gone on, I talk about other things, praise her when she talks about things of her school or life, etc. I've moved on, she has not. I never had an ax to grind when it comes to public education. I do not choose it and it's a great discussion topic as are many other issues in this life. I'm going to engage in a conversation with my opinion, things I've read about that issue, etc. It's a discussion, not a personal attack. The same is true for me when I'm in a conversation that I may not agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahW Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Here's the video... I like that video. I agree with everything except the "because calculators" line. To me it is "because truth." I'm doing conceptual/mental math with my kid, and for the first time I am starting to understand and like math (sort of). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 You were a new "convert" and "evangelized" too passionately. It happens. Now you do need to reconcile. You apologize for what you said and how you said it. Tell her that you have your own philosophy of education, but you don't think she or what she does is wrong or evil (you don't, do you?). If you have a meal with her over the holidays, ask her inquiry questions only (how does CC affect her? has she discovered any new good literature lately?) and don't argue or negate her with your own opinions. Eventually, you may come to have 1-1 conversations, but not now. These things take time. I've done that. The conversation happened 8 years ago, maybe? I've tried, even just three days ago, to go out to lunch with her one on one since I found out that she still had a beef with my opinion and life choice. She didn't accept and shows continually that she isn't wanting to reconcile. She's the one that keeps stirring the pot, although not to my face, but to others, and I'm trying to lay it to rest once and for all. I thought we had moved on, agree to disagree, but when she told another family member that she didn't like my views on public education, I knew she hadn't moved on. I know this hard to "see" a situation this way, but I wish I could tell you all I've tried and that I'm not an "in your face" "I'm superior to you" kind of person. I don't want her to feel this way. I've tried to apologize in the past. I've told her that I was sorry if I offended her. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Agree with the others to not defend yourself. Apologize for offending her though, because you clearly did, and I can see why! When you are vocally opposed to a system based off what you've read in books, it can be terribly insulting to someone who actually works in that system and likely gets paid peanuts for one of the hardest jobs in the world. Imagine if someone read a book about overpopulation and passionately spouted off about how families should never have more than two kids, while you are standing there with your four. Of course it feels like a personal attack. Or what if someone railed about the healthcare system being corrupt and a nurse or doctor was standing there? What if she had gotten up on her soapbox about the inherent flaws in homeschooling? How would that have been more offensive than what you said to her? I have tons of educators in my family. Dh's mom, sister, and brother are classroom teachers, as is his cousin's wife, his aunt and his uncle. My sister's husband is a classroom teacher, and Dh has his M Ed. and was a classroom teacher for a couple of years. I don't think I have ever offended anyone in the family (at least they've never seemed offended). I recognize that they chose teaching because they want kids to succeed, which is why I am teaching my own. We're all on the same side. I know they are sometimes envious about the choices and autonomy I have (and I'm envious of their pay and ability to clock out at the end of the day!) I agree with you. I don't think, though, it's wrong to speak in favor of your opinion respectfully, especially if you are asked why. They are opening the door to hearing reasons they may or may not agree with. How is that my fault? I am responsible for allowing myself to be offended in that situation, not the other person. I'm the sucker for falling into a conversation that I thought would be a mature discussion and now I'm the only one concerned about reconciling the relationship and moving on. I thought 8 years would be enough to move on, especially since I've already apologized. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Apologize and then move on. If you keep trying to explain yourself or post explanations of what you mean then it will keep stirring the pot. I'd go the route of I never meant to offend you. I'm trying to do what is best for my family. Then don't bring it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I've done that. The conversation happened 8 years ago, maybe? I've tried, even just three days ago, to go out to lunch with her one on one since I found out that she still had a beef with my opinion and life choice. She didn't accept and shows continually that she isn't wanting to reconcile. She's the one that keeps stirring the pot, although not to my face, but to others, and I'm trying to lay it to rest once and for all. I thought we had moved on, agree to disagree, but when she told another family member that she didn't like my views on public education, I knew she hadn't moved on. I know this hard to "see" a situation this way, but I wish I could tell you all I've tried and that I'm not an "in your face" "I'm superior to you" kind of person. I don't want her to feel this way. I've tried to apologize in the past. I've told her that I was sorry if I offended her. Sigh. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Then articles won't help. They just won't. Obviously this bothers you very much and you have apparently worked hard to try and smooth things over. I commend you for your efforts. It seems, though, that she has made up her mind and, sadly, I do not see how ANYTHING you link for her or ask her read about personal choices in education is going to fix that. The fact that you offered to go to lunch with her and try to hash things out is great, but she turned you down. She doesn't want this. No matter how many things you provide for her to read or videos you suggest she watch, etc. I just don't think it will help. I am sorry. I have been where you are. I never found a resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 You need not have the last word. Her opinion can stand as well as yours. Just walk away. Do not engage. There are some wonderful PS systems and teachers. I can see how she was offended, especially if you have been quite vocal. She is allowed to be offended and she is allowed to share her opinion as are you. If she bothers you so, by all means unfollow her on fb so you don't see her posts. She's a family member. Unfollowing on FB isn't that easy, nor do I want to for many other reasons. There are other parts of life that I like to share and encourage her on. And, I haven't been "quite vocal". It was a general conversation about lots of things that happened 8 years ago and she asked me why I was choosing to homeschool. I apologized for offending her. She hasn't let it go and this recent time spent together showed that she still hasn't let it go, even though she didn't speak this to my face, but to someone else. I don't talk about education around her nor post things on FB because of our past. She refused to go to lunch one and one. I know I may be the only one wanting to reconcile, but I'm ready to put it to rest and hopefully convince her that my choices are not a judgement on her. I have many other friends/family that public school and we don't have this problem. If she shared good statistics about public education, I'd say that's great! Still not my choice for other reasons, but I'm not going to walk away offended or feeling attacked. That's my choice to feel that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Then articles won't help. They just won't. Obviously this bothers you very much and you have apparently worked hard to try and smooth things over. I commend you for your efforts. It seems, though, that she has made up her mind and, sadly, I do not see how ANYTHING you link for her or ask her read about personal choices in education is going to fix that. The fact that you offered to go to lunch with her and try to hash things out is great, but she turned you down. She doesn't want this. No matter how many things you provide for her to read or videos you suggest she watch, etc. I just don't think it will help. I am sorry. I have been where you are. I never found a resolution. I know this is true. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 So sorry, Dianne. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 She's a family member. Unfollowing on FB isn't that easy, nor do I want to for many other reasons. There are other parts of life that I like to share and encourage her on. And, I haven't been "quite vocal". It was a general conversation about lots of things that happened 8 years ago and she asked me why I was choosing to homeschool. I apologized for offending her. She hasn't let it go and this recent time spent together showed that she still hasn't let it go, even though she didn't speak this to my face, but to someone else. I don't talk about education around her nor post things on FB because of our past. She refused to go to lunch one and one. I know I may be the only one wanting to reconcile, but I'm ready to put it to rest and hopefully convince her that my choices are not a judgement on her. I have many other friends/family that public school and we don't have this problem. If she shared good statistics about public education, I'd say that's great! Still not my choice for other reasons, but I'm not going to walk away offended or feeling attacked. That's my choice to feel that way. family is tough! Just an fyi, you can unfollow without unfriending. I have used that many times. I have family all around me that doesn't support homeschooling. It is definitely hard to walk away. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahW Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I've done that. The conversation happened 8 years ago, maybe? I've tried, even just three days ago, to go out to lunch with her one on one since I found out that she still had a beef with my opinion and life choice. She didn't accept and shows continually that she isn't wanting to reconcile. She's the one that keeps stirring the pot, although not to my face, but to others, and I'm trying to lay it to rest once and for all. I thought we had moved on, agree to disagree, but when she told another family member that she didn't like my views on public education, I knew she hadn't moved on. I know this hard to "see" a situation this way, but I wish I could tell you all I've tried and that I'm not an "in your face" "I'm superior to you" kind of person. I don't want her to feel this way. I've tried to apologize in the past. I've told her that I was sorry if I offended her. Sigh. Well, ok, color me confused. You said earlier taken issue with me regarding our choice to homeschool. She is a teacher. Several years ago, before our children were school aged, I had come to the decision to homeschool after lots and lots of researching and reading. John Taylor Gatto and a book regarding the biblical responsibility I had as a parent as well, brought dh and I to the conclusion that this was a deep conviction and made complete sense. In general conversation with this family member, this came up and I was so excited to share the info. I was passionate about it. I spoke about the history of public education, the present public education system, etc. Well, fast forward to years later when another incident occurred that made her angry (notice a trend here?), I called her and asked if I had done something to offend her. Well, the dam broke and she went on and on about everything I've ever done "to her" including talking about the public education system, of which she is an employee, so therefore, I was of course insulting her along with it. I must say, too, that everything she shared that hurt her feelings or that I had done were things that were my life choices or just who I was. Basically, my existence offends her. Ho-hum. In true examination of myself, I cannot find anything direct that I've done to hurt her in my entire life. That is not who I am. If I do realize I've offended or it's brought to my attention, I seek to reconcile. In a recent visit with this family member, along with others, it appears this family member still has a beef with my life choice to home school, mainly her issue lies with my disagreement with public education. I do not wear homeschooling as my badge or identity. I do not walk around as a poster child for homeschooling. I'm not a walking griper about public education. There is so much more to my life than homeschooling. So, I would love to find an article speaking about the issue of everyone making life choices that are convictions or personal choices, not attacks. It could be about homeschooling or not. I just want to try one more time to reconcile and maybe help her see her irrationality of judging my decision as a personal attack on her. I hope this made sense. Thanks. In addition, she posted a video in defense of the "new math" and common core. I've not followed the common core debacle closely, but I know it's not good. If you anyone could give me something to share about that, too, that would be great. Just a few things to just keep explaining the other side. I won't over do it, but want to respond. Thanks! I'll try and link the video and then maybe someone can give their critique or response to it. To me it definitely sounds like you, in your heart of hearts, want her to come around and agree with you like all the other public school teachers you know. You may think there's only one incident from 8 years ago, but to me it sounds like there has been a lot more going on. And all this is because she told another family member that she "didn't like your views on public education"? Whoopie do. I'm sure that family member is aware that you don't agree with her. So what? To call her and try to "explain" all over again isn't going to help at this point. If someone who evangelized to me in the past hears that I still don't agree with them about philosophy/religion/politics/whatever and their response is to call me and try to "keep explaining" I'd be upset too. Not everyone has to agree with you. Not everyone needs to "like" your views on education. Let it go. And if you don't know much about CC, why do you feel the need to argue that it is a "debacle"? Let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 From out in left field, perhaps, I am thinking that she does not need resources about homeschooling because her mind already is closed on that topic. Rather, she needs reminders about boundaries, about respect for others, and about recognizing that the cat is belled successfully via different methods. Her methods may be working well for her students, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Sounds like when you blanket labeled the public school system, she took it personally as she is part of it. She's objecting to you labeling her without you having any personal knowledge of the particular school system she is a part of. You need not bother to engage. Her goal is to get enough tax revenue that she can retire, and if your children aren't in school, you are hitting her in the pocketbook. This post surprises me. I can't claim to know what are the woman's goals. It seems a low blow to accuse a stranger so callously. The first paragraph, I agree with. Her hurt feelings are comparable to OP's hurt feelings from negative remarks about homeschooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 . She is a teacher. Several years ago, before our children were school aged, I had come to the decision to homeschool after lots and lots of researching and reading. John Taylor Gatto and a book regarding the biblical responsibility I had as a parent as well, brought dh and I to the conclusion that this was a deep conviction and made complete sense. In general conversation with this family member, this came up and I was so excited to share the info. I was passionate about it. I spoke about the history of public education, the present public education system, etc. Well, fast forward to years later when another incident occurred that made her angry (notice a trend here?), Years later is a trend? I think she should leave you be (although I don't see where she is challenging your choice to hs, but I can see that she could be feeling judged). I'll re-read again, but, gently, from my reading of the above, it feels you're challenging her as well. She doesn't want to meet with you one on- one? That's ok. What do you want to happen at such a meeting? You sound intense and passionate, which is awesome for your children, but may be too much for a one- on -one with this particular relative. I don't like confrontation, and I would not want to feel like I'm defending my work -- or hsing! I wouldn't go to lunch with a relative who was trying to set me straight on how awful she thought hsing was. I just wouldn't put myself in such a situation. She may be as hurt as you are. I don't know her version of the events. Some of my greatest hs supporters are in education, but I've also never told a teacher friend or family that the Gatto's history of education-- cogs in the wheel for factory work- was anything like the dedication I've seen from those friends. (Any decent and dedicated teacher will tell you that no modern American teacher is looking to make good factory workers. We outsource factory work. ;) ) I watched the video. I think it makes a good deal of sense. I don't see how that represents anything negative about your hsing. You're pushing her to give you statistics on "Common Core', which is not likely something she can offer. I'm not sure there are very many stats available quite yet. Is she asking you for hsing statistics? If so, what kind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slojo Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 In addition, she posted a video in defense of the "new math" and common core. I've not followed the common core debacle closely, but I know it's not good. If you anyone could give me something to share about that, too, that would be great. Just a few things to just keep explaining the other side. I won't over do it, but want to respond. Thanks! I'll try and link the video and then maybe someone can give their critique or response to it. I wouldn't share articles. Just try to maintain a positive relationship with her as best you can, which could include setting boundaries about what is and is not up for debate in your life. On the other side, unless she put the video on FB with a tag saying "...and this is the reason why no one should homeschool," just take it as something she's enthusiastic about that has no bearing on what you do. I didn't have time to watch the video, but maybe the video is really good and will give you some additional ideas for homeschooling. I can't imagine that whatever is making "math different and so much better for students" (I assume that's why anyone would give two hoots about "math being different") is somehow unattainable in a homeschool setting. If there is still something in her craw about your homeschooling, then another article or resource isn't going to cut it... an honest conversation is what's needed. "Ever since our family decided to HS, the relationship between you and me has felt strained... and, quite frankly, it feels weird to me that such a personal decision that had nothing to do with you would be a source of contention between us. Sounds like I may have offended you in the way I talked about HS back then, and I'm truly sorry about that because that wasn't my intent. But I am honestly puzzled as to how it still seems cause a riff between the two of us YEARS later... can we talk about that, because I miss the relationship we had before. Not my decision to homeschool - as that's not on the table, but what it is that we can both do to make our relationship better because that's important to me... yada, yada." If you are feeling like you don't want to have that conversation, then maybe that's a sign of moving on and allowing that the relationship will be what it will be. Can't win them all, even among family. P.S. Not sure why CC is necessarily a debacle -- seems too soon to tell, and also seems besides the point. I wouldn't bring that piece up to her at all. Just make sure your own biases don't come through about what is and isn't going on in public schools if what you really want to focus on is having a good relationship with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 You need not bother to engage. Her goal is to get enough tax revenue that she can retire, and if your children aren't in school, you are hitting her in the pocketbook. What? You realize that teachers are not paid per student, right? Her retirement is safe no matter how many homeschoolers there are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy. If you want to be happy then you are going to have to apologize and let it go. Whether you meant to hurt her feelings or aggravate her, you did. You don't have to fall on your sword, but it is the mature thing to take the high road and sincerely state that you might have been too enthusiastic and that since you are both coming from such opposite points of view that you might not agree but that you didn't mean to disrespect of hurt her feelings. If it comes up again then you can just smile and say that you will just have to agree to disagree. But no, I wouldn't try to convince her that you are right. You are only right for your family. If it keeps being an issue then you are going to have to ask her to let it go as well or decide whether you can be around each other or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Don't respond to her. Take her off your FB. Do not defend yourself. As long as you never said anything like "public school teachers are stupid" then you are fine. She wants to argue with you. That is why she does this stuff. Give her no argument. She can continue to try to argue, but with you not engaging, not much she can do but complain to herself. You will never get 100% of the people to agree with you 100% of the time. Take her as the person outside of your support system that keeps your stats normal. Don't argue with her. You do not need her permission to home school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I also thought the video was great! Oddly enough, one of my reasons for homeschooling was that things in school were just taught at a superficial level- just how to do it, no whys - and I wanted to make sure my kids got a better, deeper understanding of things. I'm glad that this is changing in schools, at least in math! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2bee Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I seem to remember that there used to be a good article about Passing Bean Dip.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Here's the video... Dianne, I will be honest, I loved the video. He's right. I was never taught WHY the algorithms worked when I was in school. And it crippled me in higher math. I couldn't think through math, I could only regurgitate procedures I had rote memorized. That is a pretty lousy way to do math, IMHO. Was your objection to this video based on something else in her post? Did she say something specifically against homeschooling and showed this video as an example of how much better ps is becoming? I'm not certain I understand why you were unhappy about the video. It seems she was probably posting it to try and help dispel some of the panic and extreme negative reaction and confusion over Common Core math practices. It doesn't seem like an attack on homeschooling at all. If you do enough research you may find that it isn't Common Core itself that is "bad", it is the sometimes almost sneaky, strong-armed way the government tried to force it down the throats of the states before they even had finished creating it AND the fact that the change over and implementation happened too quickly before many understood or were ready to teach a different way, and the poor understanding and implementation across the board in certain school districts AND the big business that is part of the driving force behind some of that poor implementation that I, and many others, find "bad". Some of the basic ideas in Common Core, like this video reflects, are actually GREAT. I WANT my kids to be able to think through math. Not just regurgitate rote memorized algorithms. Common Core is not inherently evil, just like ps is not inherently evil...or homeschooling for that matter. :) When she defends or tries to explain Common Core, I don't think trying to prove how bad Common Core is will net you anything at all except an even more defensive relative. But if you really watch that video and think it through, maybe you could open up a dialogue with her about how the video was very interesting to you? Maybe just discuss math approaches in general? Not sure that will net you anything since you honestly both seem pretty defensive, but its an option... :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 You won't fix this; walk away from her hostility. taken issue with me regarding our choice to homeschool. She is a teacher. Several years ago, before our children were school aged, I had come to the decision to homeschool after lots and lots of researching and reading. John Taylor Gatto and a book regarding the biblical responsibility I had as a parent as well, brought dh and I to the conclusion that this was a deep conviction and made complete sense. In general conversation with this family member, this came up and I was so excited to share the info. I was passionate about it. I spoke about the history of public education, the present public education system, etc. Well, fast forward to years later when another incident occurred that made her angry (notice a trend here?), I called her and asked if I had done something to offend her. Well, the dam broke and she went on and on about everything I've ever done "to her" including talking about the public education system, of which she is an employee, so therefore, I was of course insulting her along with it. I must say, too, that everything she shared that hurt her feelings or that I had done were things that were my life choices or just who I was. Basically, my existence offends her. Ho-hum. In true examination of myself, I cannot find anything direct that I've done to hurt her in my entire life. That is not who I am. If I do realize I've offended or it's brought to my attention, I seek to reconcile. In a recent visit with this family member, along with others, it appears this family member still has a beef with my life choice to home school, mainly her issue lies with my disagreement with public education. I do not wear homeschooling as my badge or identity. I do not walk around as a poster child for homeschooling. I'm not a walking griper about public education. There is so much more to my life than homeschooling. So, I would love to find an article speaking about the issue of everyone making life choices that are convictions or personal choices, not attacks. It could be about homeschooling or not. I just want to try one more time to reconcile and maybe help her see her irrationality of judging my decision as a personal attack on her. I hope this made sense. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Ivy Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 The dam broke and she went on and on about everything I've ever done "to her" including talking about the public education system, of which she is an employee, so therefore, I was of course insulting her along with it. I must say, too, that everything she shared that hurt her feelings or that I had done were things that were my life choices or just who I was. Basically, my existence offends her. Ho-hum. In true examination of myself, I cannot find anything direct that I've done to hurt her in my entire life. That is not who I am. If I do realize I've offended or it's brought to my attention, I seek to reconcile. In a recent visit with this family member, along with others, it appears this family member still has a beef with my life choice to home school, mainly her issue lies with my disagreement with public education. I do not wear homeschooling as my badge or identity. I do not walk around as a poster child for homeschooling. I'm not a walking griper about public education. There is so much more to my life than homeschooling. So, I would love to find an article speaking about the issue of everyone making life choices that are convictions or personal choices, not attacks. It could be about homeschooling or not. I just want to try one more time to reconcile and maybe help her see her irrationality of judging my decision as a personal attack on her. I hope this made sense. Thanks. My uncle chose to act this immaturely towards my mother many years ago. My mom did what she could to reconcile for petty things - things like only giving him a side hug, but giving his wife a full hug (she never hugs ANY man full on, so it's not just him); she put my aunt's name first on the Christmas card (he's the one that married into the family. It wasn't to be mean, just we've always referred to the couple as "Betty and Bob", not "Bob and Betty"); she didn't fill up his iced tea fast enough, and generally was not being a welcoming host (which if you knew my mother, you'd know this is laughable.) However, he was just so hurt by her actions that he couldn't bear to forgive her. (He is the most dramatic, feminine man I have ever met!) My mom really did try to rectify the situation, but fifteen years later, we have little to nothing to do with him and that's fine by me. He still plays the "she hurt me immensely" card. It's ridiculous. Try as you may, it only digs a bigger hole and causes more anxiety. I would honestly just ignore the snark and backstabbing and continue with what you are doing. If you are set on trying one more time to reconcile, you could tell her that you are sorry if anything has come across as belittling or derogatory, however you are not going to apologize for your life choices. She has her life choices and you have yours. I know you would like to come to an understanding, but the understanding does have to go both ways. I agree with the others, though, keep the topics to the weather and other non-"hot" topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellalarella Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I appreciated the math video as well. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momacacia Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Great video. Thank you. I wish I were taught that way and hope beast and MM teach multiplication that way. I'd never discuss education at all with the family ever again. Smile and wave, and as they sing, Let It Go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merry gardens Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 She's a family member. ... It was a general conversation about lots of things that happened 8 years ago and she asked me why I was choosing to homeschool. I apologized for offending her. She hasn't let it go and this recent time spent together showed that she still hasn't let it go, even though she didn't speak this to my face, but to someone else. I don't talk about education around her nor post things on FB because of our past. She refused to go to lunch one and one. I know I may be the only one wanting to reconcile, but I'm ready to put it to rest and hopefully convince her that my choices are not a judgement on her. I have many other friends/family that public school and we don't have this problem. If she shared good statistics about public education, I'd say that's great! Still not my choice for other reasons, but I'm not going to walk away offended or feeling attacked. That's my choice to feel that way. The best things to give her are space and more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmarango Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I enjoyed the video as well. This was very similar to how RightStart teaches multiplication. If this is part of Common Core, then that is definitely a positive aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I have a similar situation. All of my siblings and I homeschool. We have family members in the public school system. Personally, I am very anti-public school. Not a blanket statement for everywhere but certainly for our area the public schools are terrible. They have made numerous comments mostly to my sisters about "why they think they are qualified to teach their kids" and how they should "leave the teaching to the professionals." Thank God they have not said that to me. My cousin got highly offended when I made a few comments about how our area teaches to the test at the detriment of everything else. She denied it. It doesn't happen at "her" school. Oh ok. That's all I said. Oh? Really? That's great. Now, I know it's a lie. The whole high stakes testing issue in our area has been in national news lately. It's a huge problem, not sure if she was flat out lying or in denial. I don't care. This is not a person I plan to have a deep relationship with, I just want to keep things friendly at family functions. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 In true examination of myself, I cannot find anything direct that I've done to hurt her in my entire life. That is not who I am. If I do realize I've offended or it's brought to my attention, I seek to reconcile. In a recent visit with this family member, along with others, it appears this family member still has a beef with my life choice to home school, mainly her issue lies with my disagreement with public education. I do not wear homeschooling as my badge or identity. I do not walk around as a poster child for homeschooling. I'm not a walking griper about public education. There is so much more to my life than homeschooling. So, I would love to find an article speaking about the issue of everyone making life choices that are convictions or personal choices, not attacks. It could be about homeschooling or not. I just want to try one more time to reconcile and maybe help her see her irrationality of judging my decision as a personal attack on her. I hope this made sense. Thanks. If that is truly the case, then just live your life. No articles or rebuttals are necessary. Also, if she is truly being irrational, then a rational argument to try to get her to see things from your perspective isn't likely to bear fruit. In this situation, a better approach towards eventual reconciliation might be a sincere, respectful restraint on your part to not discuss anything related to education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 After all this time, I'd just move on & live my life -- including posting good & bad days on Facebook regardless of this family member. (I don't do Facebook, so that part is moot for me, but I wouldn't let one family member's attitude define what I did in the rest of my life.) I have two non-homeschool related situations where family members can't let go of past hurts. It doesn't color my side of our interactions. I continue being my *cough* normal gracious self. Just be polite, share what you want to share, and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Thanks for the responses. I had no opinion of the video because I haven't taken the time to watch it. We had a fatal accident in the family and the subsequent memorial for the family member which was why she was here. It was in the course of another family member trying to help her reconcile with me that she brought up the education issue again and didn't accept my lunch invitation. I wasn't judging the video, just wanting opinions of it since I hadn't watched it. Thanks for offering responses about it. I'll try and watch it sometime. The comments on the video led me to believe that it was a part of the common core thought and because she posted it. No, she didn't mention anything about homeschooling along with that video, that occurs at other times. I'm reminding myself that I do need to move on again and live my role for my family. I really thought time had helped. I know I do not need to try to convince her that I'm not being judgmental of her personally with my opinions and life choices. I can't make that happen. I do appreciate all the comments and advice. Many of them helped remind me of what I should do and have done in the past. Sigh. I prefer closure and being able to move on knowing that even though we don't agree, we support one another. I truly do support her, have told her that and am thankful for her heart for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishmommy Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Move on. I come from a long line of TX public educators (and was one myself), some people just won't ever get it. You can't please all of the people all of the time. Your decision is your decision. You don't have to justify what you do for your family to anyone. My family was shocked when we decided to being my son home, but the public school had totally and miserably failed him. After one year of homeschooling my mother was my biggest supporter (retired TX teacher). She saw amazing benefits for my son. I do think our public school system is flawed in many ways. I thought that way even when I worked in public education. But, in the end, I am going to do what is right for my family no matter what anyone thinks. I found much relief when I stopped trying to convince everyone I had made the right decision. Every once in a while my mother-in-law still tries to give me schooling advice, I just smile and nod my head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jkidcusto Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'll try and link the video and then maybe someone can give their critique or response to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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