How do you support a child's dream that may not be attainable?

[EmilyGF]

My parents encouraged my brother (pursuing and Art History PhD) to not go into much debt. They were honest with him about the realities but told him they would give him the same level of financial support they had given me and my sister, but that he'd probably want to spend it more slowly because it would have to stretch over more years of school!

 

(He has a full tuition paid as well as a stipend for his PhD; they would have strongly discouraged him from doing any advanced degree that wouldn't pay for itself.)

[Bootsie]

Up until the time I was a senior in high school, i planned on being a professional ballet dancer.  I think one of the best things my parents did was not push me by saying, "No, you must go to college..."  I was a bright student and was taking college prep courses in high school.  Senior year in high school I decided to go to college and major in economics--and then went on to get a PhD.  I still love ballet; I am glad that I was able to pursue a passion and develop a more balanced lifestyle.  

 

When I got to college, my roommate was majoring in computer science.  It was the early 1980s and her parents thought that would be a great career for a bright female.  She hated it.  Yes, she could do the work and knew she would make a lot of money, but she was miserable.  She wanted to major in theater.  Her parents said they would end all support if she changed her major.  So, guess what she ended up doing--getting a PhD in speech and becoming a college professor.  

 

I think it is important to let teens explore their interests. That doesn't mean painting an overly rosy picture regarding their talents or their chances of a career in a certain area.   Sometimes it is the blending of an avocation with a career choice in a creative way that leads to creative career.

[Dory]

My oldest has wanted to go into structural engineering or Aerospace engineering since he was 4. I have been helping him with that goal in mind, but I have also been trying to convince him that he needs a fall back plan. He may be advanced in his math and sciences, but all of his L.A. subjects are barely on grade level (except his reading fluency. Reading comp is weak though). I don't think he would make it through a heavy degree and wish he would pick a trade, but I am not about to voice that to him yet at this point. I'm rooting for him to be able to prove me wrong. I would love to see him achieve that dream. In my world, I would rather see my kids end up doing what they love, then what makes the most money, or what was the easiest to get to.

 

I just want him to have another plan should the first one prove not a good idea.

[redsquirrel]

lol, I was an english major who didn't go to law school. Even then I saw the writing on the wall about the future of law school. Nope, no way. But I am so glad I was an English major.

 

DS1 wants to be a writer, no, a ballet dancer, no, a choreographer, wait..a writer AND a dancer. Nope, he is definitely going to be an actor and manage to be the first American hired to play Doctor Who, or maybe just a writer for Doctor Who...a television writer who dances maybe?

 

And if you think of the people you know I bet there is a whole lot of variety. We have many friends involved in the creative arts and with PhDs. I know scientists who are also musicians and a doctor who is also a playwright. A good friend is a trained opera singer and actress who make a good living teaching voice lessons.  DH is friends with graphic designers who make video games and high school drop outs who compose music for those video games. I know a former plumber who owns a brewery and a former NASA scientist who is now an independent dairy farmer. I know a city engineer who left that to become a plumber. And I have a very good friend who went to acting school and he now runs his own theater company. Yes, it is a bit seat of his pants, but he runs the company, has a house and a car and a family. And I can't even keep track of how many people I know who have law degrees who do not work in that field.

 

People find their way. Many of the jobs our kids will have don't even exist now, and many people change professions several times in their lifetime. And now legal and accounting jobs are being outsourced overseas and doctors are forming unions to protect themselves from labor violations. It is clear the white collar professions aren't the guarantee of a middle class lifestyle they once were. At least a ballet dancer can't be outsourced, lol.

[maize]

My dad spent years trying to discourage my sister from going into music, he was worried she could never make a living that way. But classical music was her passion, she ended up with a graduate degree from a top conservatory and a career in music and has done just fine. The people I know who gave up what they wanted to do to pursue what their parents wanted for them have mostly either been miserable in careers they didn't care for or ended up abandoning the parent's path after an expensive degree and pursuing their own interests anyway. I would not discourage a true passion. 

 

I can however see the point of helping a child develop other skills and qualifications in addition to supporting their primary interest, possibly in a closely related or complimentary field. 

[Eagle]

Currently dd7 wants to be a Paleontologist. This is a competitive field, and it requires a certain amount of luck.

 

Have you seen the Dinosaur Paleobiology coursera MOOC from UofA? You might want to take it and have dd tag along. It's free if you do it for non-credit: http://uofa.ualberta.ca/courses/dino101

 

UofA also offers a degree program of Bachelor of Science with major in Paleontology.

[madteaparty]

. Friends don't let friends go to law school! I advised her against it.

Well, friends don't let friends pay full freight for a 4th tier school (that has no regional cache either).  I know people hate on law school and lawyers, but if we are talking purely economics, of you have a chance to be even mediocre at a top 10 or even 20 school, you know what the starting salaries in BigLaw are-- in my view that is not an irrational choice. I hated law school but I liked being a lawyer well enough (yes, even in BigLaw).

[madteaparty]

People find their way. Many of the jobs our kids will have don't even exist now, and many people change professions several times in their lifetime. And now legal and accounting jobs are being outsourced overseas and doctors are forming unions to protect themselves from labor violations. It is clear the white collar professions aren't the guarantee of a middle class lifestyle they once were. At least a ballet dancer can't be outsourced, lol.

 

I love your entire post. I do say frequently that the very nature of work is changing, that our kids and theirs will have multiple lives/"careers". I see this with some of my DH's MBA friends. Basically by the mid 30s they have done more than most people get to do in a lifetime... DS wants to be a chef, writer, roller coaster designer and film director. Maybe he will do all! (since this is a dream thread ;))

[duckens]

 

Eagle says:

duckens, on 28 Oct 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Currently dd7 wants to be a Paleontologist. This is a competitive field, and it requires a certain amount of luck.

Have you seen the Dinosaur Paleobiology coursera MOOC from UofA? You might want to take it and have dd tag along. It's free if you do it for non-credit: http://uofa.ualberta...courses/dino101

 

UofA also offers a degree program of Bachelor of Science with major in Paleontology.

 

 

THANKS!!!!!

[Mom22ns]

If my parents had told me that I could not major in English.....well, it's just incomprehensible. It's what I was meant to do. I would have been devastated and lost if I had been denied the chance to explore my passions because they didn't fit into someone else's idea of what is acceptable. I get that parents are paying the bill and want to have some say. I'll give my kids guidance, for sure. But they have to be able to choose their own path. It's their life.

 

Ds will be an English major. He wants to be an author, as in novelist. I know the chances of him making a living writing novels is not great, so does he. However, right now, he loves to write. It is his passion. He does recognize that he may have to make compromises and work at jobs other than novel writing in order to pay the bills, but for now, he is pursuing his passion.

 

The one caveat that we do insist on with that is that he not go into debt to pursue that dream. He is getting significant academic scholarships and must maintain them. We all realize that his pay on exiting college may not be stellar and that having a load of debt would be unwise. He may not be the most employable guy on the block when he gets his degree, but he will have pursued his dream and honed his craft. Either he will show potential and will continue or he will find another way to make exceptional written communication skills support him. I can think of worse positions to be in.

 

I would never consider trying to dissuade him from pursuing his passion.

[madteaparty]

I've been out of a long time but it's my understanding that top 14 isn't even a guarantee of Biglaw anymore. I used to follow Above the Law and it's scary out there. There have been huge layoffs and partners aren't even immune. I graduated from a Top 20 and I think less of us got Biglaw than the shiny brochures promised. Honestly, if it were my kid, I'd only recommend law school if she got into HYS and maybe CCN.

This has not been my experience.

[Desert Strawberry]

I guess I don't understand why my post is making you sad, because I never said I would not support such an endeavor, it's just that I would have hesitations to spend 100k for it when everyone and their cat is taking creative writing classes in NYC now...I'd still fund it, but are we not allowed some hesitation?

Nm.

[fairfarmhand]

I've read most of the responses here and I agree with a lot of them. My daughter excels at math and science. We are chemists and engineers in our little family. We encourage that stuff because we know about it and she excels. She is also a dancer and a doodler (with pretty good drawing skills for a nine year old I think). I frequently think of my neighbor who is almost brutally honest with her kids, but also affectionate and supportive. She told us that her daughter (a very talented dancer/actress) said she wanted a degree in theater. Her response, "So a dual major then?" I live in a practical world with real bills. I don't mind helping to finance a career that my daughter is passionate about that may work out. I also need to see that she has a more practical back up plan. Times are tough and not every dream pays off, but they shouldn't be squashed altogether.

This is what I plan to do for my kids.

 

I have one who is an aspiring artist. She's also interested in writing or being a librarian. So she's got options, and I'll encourage her to follow dreams, but be sensible too.

[ForeverFamily]

I also wanted to become an animator, but for me becoming a mom changed that a bit ;).  I think both of those choices can lead to promising careers, but I understand the idea of not wanting her to come out of college with large students loans and no job.  I am no expert but I think that is a risk with most art degrees.  However, that being said I don't think it is impossible to have a successful career in the arts. 

 

If it were me I would support her desire to become an animator or illustrator and provide her with as much opportunity as you can to grow her art skills.  Then as she gets in to high school maybe start to look with her at the existing careers, degrees needed, college choices, financial risk etc. 

 

Just in case you would find this useful, I ran across this article a while back.  I found it interesting as working at Pixar would have been one of my dream job choices.  BYU may not be an option for your family, but perhaps she could contact the business she would hope to eventually work for (i.e. pixar, etc.) and find out what colleges they prefer to recruit their employees from.  Just a thought.  HTH :)

[Penguin]

Love, love, love the grant idea.  Thank, duckens.  I will use it for Child #3.

 

Child #2 is a psych major.  Yes, he plans to go to grad school.  But there is no guarantee he will get in.  I am OK with that.

[Mommy22alyns]

Rebecca wants to go to the Olympics.  I'm secretly hoping/planning for college gymnastics instead.  There are tons of ways to stay around gymnastics in other jobs once she "retires," so I'm not very worried about that.  Right now, we just take her to the gym, pay the fees, and support her.  She'll do the math eventually.

[SeaConquest]

I've been out of a long time but it's my understanding that top 14 isn't even a guarantee of Biglaw anymore. I used to follow Above the Law and it's scary out there. There have been huge layoffs and partners aren't even immune. I graduated from a Top 20 and I think less of us got Biglaw than the shiny brochures promised. Honestly, if it were my kid, I'd only recommend law school if she got into HYS and maybe CCN.

 

This is my experience as well. More important IMHO, and economics aside, most lawyers that I know (most especially BIGLAW inclusive) have miserable job satisfaction. I always say (only half joking) that I will support my sons in any profession except the law.

[duckens]

 

Penguin says:

Love, love, love the grant idea.  Thank, duckens.  I will use it for Child #3.

 

Child #2 is a psych major.  Yes, he plans to go to grad school.  But there is no guarantee he will get in.  I am OK with that.

We are hoping that it will be the middle ground between not helping our children at all (which is what my parents did), and a blank check being written (which is what Loverboy's family did for a part of his education.) 

 

On an unrelated note:

I also plan a clause for my daughters: If you want my blessing for getting married, you will have some sort of education before you get married.  This may be a 4-year degree.  It may be a nursing degree or certificate program from the local Community College.  But SOME SORT of education completed before getting married.

 

I am also much more willing to pay for an education than for a wedding.  I think that if we get our kids through a 4-year degree, they will be able to pay for their own wedding.  If they want a big wedding with a $3K dress, that's up to them.  If they want to go to City Hall, that's up to them.  There is no guarantee my daughters will fall in love, but we can do everything in our power to help them earn a 4-year degree within a few years of graduating from high school.  I'd much rather invest in higher education than a party.

[AmandaVT]

One of my best friend's from high school was a music performance major and his brother was an art major. Their poor parents thought they'd have both boys back in their childhood bedrooms trying to figure out how to get paid for their chosen careers. :-) 

 

The music major decided to double major with recording engineering and now has a nice career teaching music and recording at a private school, teaching private cello lessons and performing nights and weekends. Happy and successful. 

 

The art major went into video game design and is currently one of the top artists in the country for water effects and underwater explosions. He's worked on a number of well known games and is also doing great. 

 

I feel like if it's a real passion, students will find their path with parental support.

[SparklyUnicorn]

What is difficult for me in terms of career ideas is I don't necessarily know what people do in various professions.  So take the time to find out.  You really never know what it might be about.  It might be a lot more robust than you think.

 

 

[Pen]

My dd15 wants to be an animator.  She says there isn't anything else she wants to do except maybe an illustrator if they animator thing doesn't work out.  I don't want her to go in debt for a career that may never happen.  How to I support her dream while helping her find another career that could support her while she chases after dream?

 

Why are you thinking the dream may not be attainable? Do you not see enough talent/work etc. on it from your dd now? Or assume a lack of job openings?

 

One thing about animation as a goal is that if she is home schooling I would think she could start to pursue this dream (learn art, computer skills etc.) right now instead of waiting.

[EmilyGF]

I think another way parents can support a dream is to allow the child to partially specialize while maintaining a strong general background. Yes, spend the afternoons pursuing animation, but don't quit math or writing and don't let your grades drop.

 

Anecdotally, a friend of mine in school began dancing with San Francisco Ballet training corps in 6th grade. She would go to school half days, then get driven 45 min to dance in SF. She continued to get good grades and take a college prep course load. At 18, she joined a company. I'm not sure what happened, but after one year she quit, went to Northwestern, and became a psychologist. She's out there writing research papers now. 

 

My neighbor's son is a fairly successful rapper. But, I know he went to the 4th best public high school in our state. He's also known as a "smart" rapper for the subjects of his songs. 

 

So don't burn your bridges.

[Storygirl]

I guess I don't view my job as discouraging my kids because I think life will do that on its own. Unless we shield a little.

DH is convinced DS is an English type major who will collect languages and stamps on his passport. I cannot see an inclination yet and I resist the pigeonholing. On the other hand, in my internal monologue, I wonder: We will have to pay for his degrees no matter what as we do not qualify for any aid: It will be hard for me to shell 100K to have my kid publish one story every 10 years in magazine no one has heard of. On the other hand, what a sad world for all to be bankers and lawyers and engineers...

 

 

I guess I don't understand why my post is making you sad, because I never said I would not support such an endeavor, it's just that I would have hesitations to spend 100k for it when everyone and their cat is taking creative writing classes in NYC now...I'd still fund it, but are we not allowed some hesitation?

 

It's the sentence in blue.

 

ETA: In case you are still wondering -- It's dismissive to say that the only opportunities for an English major are as a wannabe but unsuccessful fiction writer. In my post I attempted to show that majoring in English can open various doors of opportunity.

[madteaparty]

It's the sentence in blue.

 

ETA: In case you are still wondering -- It's dismissive to say that the only opportunities for an English major are as a wannabe but unsuccessful fiction writer. In my post I attempted to show that majoring in English can open various doors of opportunity.

For sure. I am a bit of a cynic though, and generally when one does cost benefit analysis, which is what I was referring to in the post in blue, one assumes the worst case scenario of what's presented.

[Elisabet1]

She could be an animator. Lots of people are. Make sure she learns skills that would make her marketable along the way. I know someone who wanted to be a writer in Hollywood. He never was a famous writer, but he did end up working for one studio and regularly did writing there. He was working for Universal last I knew. 

[Harriet Vane]

For sure. I am a bit of a cynic though, and generally when one does cost benefit analysis, which is what I was referring to in the post in blue, one assumes the worst case scenario of what's presented.

 

Coming in late to the conversation . . .

 

Just wanted to chime in that my English degree has served me well. (I had a double major in English and Rhetoric.) I went into publishing. Some of the roles I filled while working full time were editor, proofreader, and manager. 

 

I currently work both as a freelance editor/proofreader and I teach an online writing course.

 

Also, over the years I have taught many a homeschool English class. It would be an easy step for me to get a Master's in Education and teach full time.

 

There is always a worst-case scenario for any discipline. Case in point--I have a relative with a fancy engineering degree but who is still unemployed two years after college. In her case, it really does boil down to an unwillingness to do the necessary work to market herself and get a job.

 

It's also true that there is usually a career path in any discipline for those who are disciplined enough to work hard and find that path.

[Storygirl]

I agree with the previous post. Someone in my family used to be a chiropractor. but he couldn't drum up enough business to be successful (he hated self-promoting, which severely limited his chances to build his clientele). So he decided to go to med school to become a radiologist. He graduated a few years ago and has never been able to find a full time job as a physician but cobbles some part-time things together. The problem is not with his degrees (which many would expect to be good choices).

 

 

[Elisabet1]

What I was trying to say, as I think my post was not well written because I was in a hurry, have her get a degree in something where she can study the animation at the same time as making her qualified for a variety of other fields. Then, while in college, look for an internship where she get work in animation. That will be the real spring board is the internships.

[stupidusername]

Animation is a brutally competitive field. Hundreds of thousands of budding animators want to work at Pixar or Dreamworks. Guess what? Very, very few of them are going to make it. To make matters worse, a lot of animation work is being offshored to Asia where artists are delighted to work for $10 an hour.

 

If your daughter goes to animation school, she might be one of the few who gets a job in the field. The most likely outcome, however, is this: She will graduate with no job offer, no marketable skills, and lots of debt. She will try to branch out into other areas -- perhaps drawing for a greeting card company or working for an art museum -- but everywhere she goes she will face intense competition from other unemployed artists.

 

I recommend you steer her in another direction. She can always draw, but she should view her art as a hobby not as a career.

[Donna]

I support my kids in their passions by paying for lessons, doing a lot of driving, helping them research options, finding opportunities, etc... I talk to them about keeping options open and having a back-up plan, too. Who am I to decide they aren't going to be able to do a certain thing? How do I know they won't be the one to make it to their "dream job"? I don't want my lack of imagination to limit them in what they might be able to do. I don't know where life will take them or what they will end up doing but they will know whatever it is, they have parents who love and support them.

[Sahamamama]

Years ago, my (East) Indian friends and I were discussing the differences in our cultures and how young people are brought up. They said, "With you, your parents will send you to college for something like Art History or Minority Studies or Sacred Music or whatever you want, even if you could never make a decent living with that degree. Or, if you say you want to be in a band, they'll say, 'That's great!' and support you for years. But our parents will never do this. Instead, they sit us down when we're, say, eleven or twelve years old. They tell us that if we like music, okay, that will be a nice hobby. If we like art, okay, it's good for doodling when a meeting gets boring. But we can only choose from some lucrative profession. We have to choose something science-related, such as Chemistry or Engineering or Pharmacy, because that's where the money is. Perhaps we could be a medical doctor, but more likely they want us to go into Computer Science or Mathematics. Then our aunties and uncles and older cousins and grandparents all tell us the same thing. And so that is how it is in our culture."

 

Now, I have no idea (that is, no personal experience) of whether or not this is true. It was simply reported to me by some friends from within the East Indian culture here in the eastern US. The idea of "telling it like it is" has intrigued me for years. I married into a non-European-heritage family (US Middle Eastern), so I am now personally familiar with that level of directness and bluntness!  :laugh:

 

I mean, imagine it! Parents who directly tell a child, "You may not choose X or Y, because there is likely no sustainable future in it. Therefore, if you expect our support, you must choose from options A through G, because these are more likely to secure you a better income in the future. And we are not going to throw our money and time away (or let you do the same) on a pipe dream."

 

The nerve! I have to admit, I thought it was brilliant, refreshingly honest, and wisely practical. Very different from my parents asking me what I thought I'd "like" to do with my life.

 

I'm not sure we'll take that blunt of an approach, though. My husband's parents "wanted" him to be a physician, and strongly steered him in that direction. But he did not care enough about their goal for his life, and he didn't have the intrinsic motivation to apply himself in medical school. So he bombed it.

 

It's okay. He managed to do well later in life, after he found me. :001_wub: I am more than enough motivation.

[8filltheheart]

I guess I don't see it as either/or but more as a question regarding the individual involved. As parents, we try to stay pretty removed from the decisions our adult children make. When they are older teens, we obviously share insights, offer suggestions as to what they might want to consider, etc, but we don't normally make decisions for them. (I'll clarify that in a minute.). But, the flip side is that we also don't completely fund their decisions, either. Our kids know that we only have a limited amt of $$ that we can offer to help them. We work with them to generate lists of options, do the research on costs/options, but the making it all work out is their responsibility, not ours. We do the best we can to provide them with the best preparations possible for following their passions, but making that a path to a financially feasible college pursuit lies heavily on them. That is simply our financial reality. Fwiw, it has also been an approach which has encouraged our kids to take responsibility for their lives and they have thrived.

 

The exception is our 23 yr old ds who has Aspergers. He wanted to go to art school. We said no and we would not fund it. Why? A long list of reasons. He crumbles under any pressure, suffers from crippling anxiety, can't cope with open ended assignments, and has zero ability to self-regulate multiple assignments and tasks. We know several art majors and the pressure is immense and the need to stay on task to complete projects is beyond his ability to cope. We have paid for him to pursue art through private art classes, but that is far removed from going to a university and majoring in art. We have had 2 different art teachers of his pull us aside and implore us to not let him major in art. We have told them we have the same opinion and they both said that he would be destroyed in that environment.

 

We have encouraged him to do projects that he can try to sell at city festivals (I don't know if these are common in all parts of the country, but where we live, a couple of times a yr city blocks are closed down for artists booths. The lack of self-regulation plagues him, though, and he rarely follows through to complete a project.

 

Anyway, that is our perspective. All of our older kids with the exception of our Aspie have chosen their own path and pursued their passions. Our current 10th grader has every intention of doing the same.

 

Time will tell with the youngest 3. Our 7th grader has said she wants to be a metereologist since she was 5. But.....she is very creative. Her fiction writing is incredible. She loves to fashion design and sew. I can't see her in meterology. I can see her as a writer or owning her own shop and maybe selling original designs (just on a local level.) We live in an area where shops like that are quite successful. We'll see. In the meantime, I am teaching her how to sew, she has a weather station in her room, she has stacks of meterology books, she is taking math seriously BC she knows she'll need if for meterology, etc. But, she also has several books she is writing (and they are excellent, and not just for a 7th grader.) Where she ends up will be her choice and will rely on her efforts.

[Laurel-in-CA]

Since I have a dd getting a BFA in illustration, I am living this right now. One thing we did when she wanted to be an animator was send her to a 2-week summer program at an Art Institute near our house. She decided that creating characters was really hard and sitting for hours at the computer was not her thing. She's much more hands-on. So now we have an upcoming graduate who knows how to paint in water color and oils and wants to be an art director for a magazine (which, by the way is all graphic designer stuff, not necessarily studio art). I have learned a ton about all the possibilities and distinctions in the art world.

 

Does your dd enter competitions (county fairs, regional art competitions)? Has she toured some art colleges in person or on-line? Our dd has worked part-time all through school for a company that provides the art kiosks at amusement parks, so she's done everything from face-painting to pastel portraits...a great learning experience and you don't have to have an art degree to get such a job, just be trainable and be willing to put up with minimum wage plus commission. 

 

I think you need a lot of drive to succeed in the art world. THERE's the question with my dd; is she assertive enough to pursue the dream now she has the skills?