Ann.without.an.e Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 UPDATE to post #19 UPDATE #2 on post 36 A particular position in my DH's corporation has come up again....the one where they cannot get anyone to stay for very long. The CEO used to ask him to transfer into that department and take that position. He always turned it down so they've stopped directly asking him. He likes where he is. The other position pays more. It is more stressful, but it pays more. He's thinking about it for the better pay. In the last 11 years, 6+ guys have cycled through that position and all declared misery. At the same time, DH is very respected, he just won company wide "employee of the year" last year (very difficult to get), and if anyone can change how that position operates then DH can. I am not sure how much more the pay is at this point. DH is working on finding out the specifics. This move also puts him in closer proximity to the CFO I talked about earlier (umm...the one with a crush on DH). But it pays more.....at the same time I know what it is like to live with a miserable husband :/ Can you tell I'm a little conflicted. I hate these decisions. :confused1: ETA: If you wonder why it paying more is such a big deal then just reflect on my grocery thread where I admitted that groceries alone are over 30% of our budget and we don't eat organic or shop at Whole Foods. :/ Also, I am not worried about DH working in closer to proximity to CFO. He avoids her and definitely avoids being alone with her. He is cautious. I trust him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Already I think the cons outweigh the pros, but I'm an outsider. Pros Cons groceries/other unhappy dh/unhappy wife? That is kind of my feeling. I definitely don't think he should step into it without a redefinition/reworking of the position and a serious talk with the CEO. DH is far more qualified than the people they keep putting in the position and he will be trusted far more. Again.....I hate change and the thought makes me nervous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 What if he doesn't like the job? Then what happens? Does he leave the company because his old job will have been filled? That would be one of my worries. My #1 worry. I think he would be stuck for a while. He has a great job right now and I would hate for him to "lose" it that way. I am not sure in the this market and community if he could find anything he likes as much as what he does now or that pays as well (with benefits). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I wouldn't do it. Not in a heartbeat, at least without first thinking through why this position is set up for failure and a workabke plan to fix it. No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRG Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Stressful job situation--nope that rarely ends well. I think I would stay put. Can he ask for a raise on his employee of the year award? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 . It is more stressful, but it pays more. .... In the last 11 years, 6+ guys have cycled through that position and all declared misery. It depends on how much more compare to the increase in stress. Given the turnover for that position I would be skeptical. Where have those guys end up after they gave up on that position? Also when one of my ex-boss was promoted, it took him a longer time to find a job when he was retrenched compare to the lower level employees. His previous position was already filled by someone else so he can't go back to the previous position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 My advice: don't do it. Speaking from hard experience, it's not worth it. If you do opt for the other job, set up an emergency fund and save as much of the income increase as you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 He's happy where he is, things are tight but you're getting by. I wouldn't make the move. If anyone is getting pay raises at his company, though, I think that would be worth asking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I would not want my DH to take it. A secure job is worth it's weight in gold. Dealing with known issues vs. unknown (and rumored to be far worse) would is better IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 When my DH is faced with decisions that require a choice between stress and $, I try to leave the final choice to him because he'll be bearing the burden. Since I know the pressure will be on him, I may mention how I would use the extra money once just to give him data, but I don't bring it up again. I listen to his concerns and we talk about how he might address them. I ask him what is drawing him to the job (beyond the money). Basically I am just a sounding board. I do let him know that whichever choice he makes, I'll support it. So far, he's gone for less stress. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 When my DH is faced with decisions that require a choice between stress and $, I try to leave the final choice to him because he'll be bearing the burden. Since I know the pressure will be on him, I may mention how I would use the extra money once just to give him data, but I don't bring it up again. I listen to his concerns and we talk about how he might address them. I ask him what is drawing him to the job (beyond the money). Basically I am just a sounding board. I do let him know that whichever choice he makes, I'll support it. So far, he's gone for less stress. ;) I've already decided that I can't pressure him either way. He needs to make this decision. If it goes south I sure don't want to be responsible, haha. But I will encourage him with whatever he decides and not blame him regardless of what he decides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Dh has done this before and it worked out for him. A few things to compare or think through. I don't expect you to post your answers. These are just some things we have talked about in the past when dh was considering changing. Hours per week (even 5 hours extra a week add up) Special shift requirements for position Hours for special issues--- ie Being the person staying late to handle the IT crisis vs being the one to call IT to handle the crisis. Holiday work, seasonal work (longer hours during tax season etc). Position says it should be 40 hours, but is actually a 50 hour a week job. Travel (how often, how much, how far, how is it compensated) Prep work at home (dh has always done most of his meeting prep at home because there are fewer distractions here that in an office with people walking in and out and phones ringing. But he had to be in the office certain hours so that meant more time on the job) Silly little perks--since dh planned the meetings he also picked the lunch for them that the company provided. Having an assistant to delegate simple tasks or ones that you just don't want to do yourself. Location difference? Same office? or can one job be done partially at home? Vacation schedule changes (some positions need to have a fill in person, some are more fluid and the person can just take a vacation or day off when they want to. Benefit differences if the position is in a different level of the hierarchy, it could have different benefits. Really think about the reason the position pays more vs the one he has now. If it is a different level of responsibility, does he want that responsibility? How much more $ are you talking...and it is really worth the extra? 50 cents per hour or 50 dollars per week? Big difference in the amount of pay to BS ratio. Is it paid hourly or salary? If it is hourly, how is the company about OT (some employees work off the clock to hide OT hours which makes a 50hour a week job look like they were doing it in 40). When people leave the 2 positions in the company...are they leaving the company entirely or moving into other positions. Why? If he tried the position for a year and didn't want to stay, would he have to step back to where he was? Would that even be a option? Does he need training for the position and if he does, is the company good about providing training? (Dhs current company trains a person while in their current position and doesn't promote until you pretty much can do the job independently because there will be very little training after you get there. His old company promoted first and then trained them with the current trends.. The new company is harder to move up, because you don't want to get promoted unless you already know the job) Is there a bonus structure on either job that is reasonable? (dh is in sales and sells a declining product. Bonus pay is still calculated at the old sales figures, not adjusted for the current trends) On call hours. (Dh has pretty much always been on call, but in one position he got 3am phones calls at least once a week, that required him to get out of bed and do a task. ) Is the new job a good use of dh's skills and personality? Will he like the task? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer132 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I would advise against it unless your dh could do a trial run for say, 6 months, and if he didn't like it he could go back to his old position or another comparable position in the company. My dh considered a very similar scenario, and in his case, the issue wasn't with the position itself being bad, but with the company desiring major changes but withholding the power from those who needed to change things. My dh had a bunch of wonderful ideas, but no power to implement. It is incredibly frustrating. Also, if the position is really that hard, the stress will be high. And I know for our family, it is hard for dh to leave that stuff at work. It spills over and stresses us all out. My dh ended up leaving the company for a lateral move to another company just to get out from under the stress. Same pay, much happier dh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solascriptura Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Obviously, the pros and cons need to be weighed very carefully. However, sometimes more money does relieve stress too. Kwim? My DH has faced a similar situation, and he flourished under the demands and increased his salary very significantly. If your DH does well, it may lead to a large promotion, more money and additional perks. It did for my DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Dh has done this before and it worked out for him. A few things to compare or think through. I don't expect you to post your answers. These are just some things we have talked about in the past when dh was considering changing. Hours per week (even 5 hours extra a week add up) Special shift requirements for position Hours for special issues--- ie Being the person staying late to handle the IT crisis vs being the one to call IT to handle the crisis. Holiday work, seasonal work (longer hours during tax season etc). Position says it should be 40 hours, but is actually a 50 hour a week job. Travel (how often, how much, how far, how is it compensated) Prep work at home (dh has always done most of his meeting prep at home because there are fewer distractions here that in an office with people walking in and out and phones ringing. But he had to be in the office certain hours so that meant more time on the job) Silly little perks--since dh planned the meetings he also picked the lunch for them that the company provided. Having an assistant to delegate simple tasks or ones that you just don't want to do yourself. Location difference? Same office? or can one job be done partially at home? Vacation schedule changes (some positions need to have a fill in person, some are more fluid and the person can just take a vacation or day off when they want to. Benefit differences if the position is in a different level of the hierarchy, it could have different benefits. Really think about the reason the position pays more vs the one he has now. If it is a different level of responsibility, does he want that responsibility? How much more $ are you talking...and it is really worth the extra? 50 cents per hour or 50 dollars per week? Big difference in the amount of pay to BS ratio. Is it paid hourly or salary? If it is hourly, how is the company about OT (some employees work off the clock to hide OT hours which makes a 50hour a week job look like they were doing it in 40). When people leave the 2 positions in the company...are they leaving the company entirely or moving into other positions. Why? If he tried the position for a year and didn't want to stay, would he have to step back to where he was? Would that even be a option? Does he need training for the position and if he does, is the company good about providing training? (Dhs current company trains a person while in their current position and doesn't promote until you pretty much can do the job independently because there will be very little training after you get there. His old company promoted first and then trained them with the current trends.. The new company is harder to move up, because you don't want to get promoted unless you already know the job) Is there a bonus structure on either job that is reasonable? (dh is in sales and sells a declining product. Bonus pay is still calculated at the old sales figures, not adjusted for the current trends) On call hours. (Dh has pretty much always been on call, but in one position he got 3am phones calls at least once a week, that required him to get out of bed and do a task. ) Is the new job a good use of dh's skills and personality? Will he like the task? Can I "like" this twice? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I definitely don't think he should step into it without a redefinition/reworking of the position and a serious talk with the CEO. DH is far more qualified than the people they keep putting in the position and he will be trusted far more. The only way I would take on this kind of position or encourage my dh to take it on is if there was a solid chance that the right person in the position (your dh, presumably) would have the know-how and leeway to make significant changes that would make the position a positive one for the company and the person filling the position, and even then ONLY if given the support and trust from management to make those changes. Otherwise, no way. Wouldn't even consider it. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 He had a long talk with CEO and CFO yesterday. They really want him there but they aren't offering him an increase to prove it, rather they are offering him the promise of increase and a position with more upward potential. It would pay the same as he makes now but would be 40 hours a week for the same pay that he works 45-50 hours a week to make now. That is an advantage....same money, less hours. At the same time, he loves what he does now. DH isn't sure. I am not sure. Their future goal is to join both departments and he head them both up (in this area, not the entire department). He already heads up this aspect of the other department. I pep talked him into going in today and asking for the position they say they eventually want him in. Why would they retrain someone to take his place on the other side (the more complicated side to learn) and then try to merge them? The reality is every guy who has been in this position (the one being offered to DH) has consulted DH for help quite often and it isn't even his department. They all know he is capable. This is the perfect opportunity to go ahead and merge the two. Waiting is silly and will only make it more complicated. He has a great working relationship with both departments which makes him the perfect man to do this. In the past, they couldn't do it because each department wanted their "own" man. He is the one person both sides are going to trust. If they offer him the position straight out then the pay should be at least a 15-20,000 a year increase and that would be huge for us. Also, by nature it would completely redefine the position. So I hope going back to them with this idea is a good move. We both feel they aren't giving him much to lose, right? If they say no then he is happy where he is anyway. I hope they offer it to him. He is brilliant and capable and it would be a good move for DH. Holding my breath. ETA: He has a meeting with the CEO at 2:30. He's never done anything like this. He has always been blessed to have bosses who move him up without him asking but he has been stuck at the same level for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 If it has had a high turnover in the recent economy it is either a really dud job or someone is head hunting that particular skill set. Which is most likely? I did go for a temp position once where they were holding the job open for the person they talked into taking a promotion. It doesn't sound like they are that sort of employer (few are) but would they do that? Finally if they really want him to take the job then they should prove it. My gut says don't do it AND start looking at other companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 We both feel they aren't giving him much to lose, right? They aren't giving him much to gain. Anything they are offering is a "promise," in the future. It seems like they win if he takes the job, but I'm not so sure he'd gain anything. My gut says don't do it AND start looking at other companies. Definitely. With his background and how he relates to people, he has nothing to lose by looking outside the company, and he has more to gain than by staying where he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Based on the comments from your update in #19, I'd not encourage to go to the new position. The company seems fine with the high turn over and isn't willing to do much to make this position seem like a "high priority." So if your dh went there, he'd probably have large expectations from above with very little actual support from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I would do it because it will look good on a resume. Honestly, in every business type job you should be constantly looking to improve your resume, and he also should look for other jobs. I don't mean he has to look hard for new work, but keep an eye out for better opportunities. I hope the job does work out and he is paid accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewe Mama Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 What a difficult position to be in. Please keep us updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 You spend most of your waking hours working. I wouldn't risk turning that into misery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solascriptura Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 He had a long talk with CEO and CFO yesterday. They really want him there but they aren't offering him an increase to prove it, rather they are offering him the promise of increase and a position with more upward potential. It would pay the same as he makes now but would be 40 hours a week for the same pay that he works 45-50 hours a week to make now. That is an advantage....same money, less hours. At the same time, he loves what he does now. DH isn't sure. I am not sure. Their future goal is to join both departments and he head them both up (in this area, not the entire department). He already heads up this aspect of the other department. I pep talked him into going in today and asking for the position they say they eventually want him in. Why would they retrain someone to take his place on the other side (the more complicated side to learn) and then try to merge them? The reality is every guy who has been in this position (the one being offered to DH) has consulted DH for help quite often and it isn't even his department. They all know he is capable. This is the perfect opportunity to go ahead and merge the two. Waiting is silly and will only make it more complicated. He has a great working relationship with both departments which makes him the perfect man to do this. In the past, they couldn't do it because each department wanted their "own" man. He is the one person both sides are going to trust. If they offer him the position straight out then the pay should be at least a 15-20,000 a year increase and that would be huge for us. Also, by nature it would completely redefine the position. So I hope going back to them with this idea is a good move. We both feel they aren't giving him much to lose, right? If they say no then he is happy where he is anyway. I hope they offer it to him. He is brilliant and capable and it would be a good move for DH. Holding my breath. Really, they are dangling a carrot. He definitely should ask for the raise and promotion. One thing I realized about corporations is that an employee needs to be his own advocate and ask for the promotions and raises. Of course, this needs to be backed up by evidence. However, if an employee is willing to do his/her job for 20K less, why would an employer generously offer more? Out of goodwill? An employee needs to do his/her job with excellence and then push for the raise and promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 If it has had a high turnover in the recent economy it is either a really dud job or someone is head hunting that particular skill set. Which is most likely? I did go for a temp position once where they were holding the job open for the person they talked into taking a promotion. It doesn't sound like they are that sort of employer (few are) but would they do that? Finally if they really want him to take the job then they should prove it. My gut says don't do it AND start looking at other companies. They aren't giving him much to gain. Anything they are offering is a "promise," in the future. It seems like they win if he takes the job, but I'm not so sure he'd gain anything. Definitely. With his background and how he relates to people, he has nothing to lose by looking outside the company, and he has more to gain than by staying where he is. Based on the comments from your update in #19, I'd not encourage to go to the new position. The company seems fine with the high turn over and isn't willing to do much to make this position seem like a "high priority." So if your dh went there, he'd probably have large expectations from above with very little actual support from them. I know that from what I have posted about this new position, it seems that this company has a high turn over rate. They actually do not at all. They have a very low turn over rate. They have great benefits and treat their employees like gold. There is a man there who has worked for 40 years and he can no longer even complete his originally hired tasks, but they keep him and pay someone else to do his job and pay him to simply help. They know he needs the part time income. There aren't many companies like that anymore. DH believes the CEO when he says he will move him up once he is there because his CEO is a man of great integrity who treats people with a huge amount of respect. At the same time, we have no idea of the when in this and I know that DH has already earned the position with his hard work and faithful record. I have no idea why they didn't just offer him the position outright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 I would do it because it will look good on a resume. Honestly, in every business type job you should be constantly looking to improve your resume, and he also should look for other jobs. I don't mean he has to look hard for new work, but keep an eye out for better opportunities. I hope the job does work out and he is paid accordingly. Yes, I am pretty sure if DH can get them to go ahead and offer the higher position he will indeed take it. The lateral move would actually look worse on a resume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 :grouphug: I hope things go well for him when he talks to the boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Yes, I am pretty sure if DH can get them to go ahead and offer the higher position he will indeed take it. The lateral move would actually look worse on a resume. He seems to be in a better position to negotiate before starting the job, rather than when he's already there. All the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 He seems to be in a better position to negotiate before starting the job, rather than when he's already there. All the best! That is what I told DH. He is a very trusting person. I am always skeptical. It is a fault of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 That is what I told DH. He is a very trusting person. I am always skeptical. It is a fault of mine. I don't think it's a fault, particularly in a situation where money is involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Always ask for money upfront!!it rarely comes later after hired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Ya'll are making me feel so much better about this. I kind of steered DH in the direction of not accepting the position as future promise. I didn't say it directly, but rather through asking a great number of purposeful questions :blush: I have been concerned that I just rocked some kind of boat and sent him in the wrong direction. The CEO almost had him convinced to take the position on the promise that it could go much higher than his current position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Update #2 DH had a great meeting with CEO. DH created a master plan for the position, etc. CEO liked it :D He is headed out of town on business for the weekend and he wants to think over it. He isn't sure about salary at all. I feel good about this because DH will NOT be filling his position's lateral in a different department. It will be a move up with massive potential for future career. I didn't like him taking the lateral position but this.....this could be very good for DH. It would include some paid education that, again, would make him more valuable to any company. So I'll be praying over the next few days that CEO and CFO come back with a good salary. DH will probably take it at any increase because of the potential. But he didn't tell them that, whew. I don't see this new redefined position as less stable, as originally stated in title :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Update #2 DH had a great meeting with CEO. DH created a master plan for the position, etc. CEO liked it :D He is headed out of town on business for the weekend and he wants to think over it. He isn't sure about salary at all. I feel good about this because DH will NOT be filling his position's lateral in a different department. It will be a move up with massive potential for future career. I didn't like him taking the lateral position but this.....this could be very good for DH. It would include some paid education that, again, would make him more valuable to any company. So I'll be praying over the next few days that CEO and CFO comes back with a good salary. DH will probably take it at any increase because of the potential. But he didn't tell them that, whew. I don't see this new redefined position as less stable, as originally stated in title :) Great! Please push for him to get any promises in writing! I have been burned more than once by bosses saying one thing and then another showing up on a paycheck. Once he makes the move, he won't be able to negotiate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Great! Please push for him to get any promises in writing! I have been burned more than once by bosses saying one thing and then another showing up on a paycheck. Once he makes the move, he won't be able to negotiate. At best, an official offer in writing. At the very least, an email summary that the CEO specifically agrees with IN WRITING. This can be a simple email reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Great! Please push for him to get any promises in writing! I have been burned more than once by bosses saying one thing and then another showing up on a paycheck. Once he makes the move, he won't be able to negotiate. At best, an official offer in writing. At the very least, an email summary that the CEO specifically agrees with IN WRITING. This can be a simple email reply. Will the paper DH wrote up work? It isn't an option to have CEO sign something. DH passed that by his current direct boss and he said it would be terribly offensive. This guy is known for treating people great and being a man of his word. If it was a different company and DH didn't know him so well then that would be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Sorry double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Update #2 DH had a great meeting with CEO. DH created a master plan for the position, etc. CEO liked it :D He is headed out of town on business for the weekend and he wants to think over it. He isn't sure about salary at all. I feel good about this because DH will NOT be filling his position's lateral in a different department. It will be a move up with massive potential for future career. I didn't like him taking the lateral position but this.....this could be very good for DH. It would include some paid education that, again, would make him more valuable to any company. So I'll be praying over the next few days that CEO and CFO come back with a good salary. DH will probably take it at any increase because of the potential. But he didn't tell them that, whew. I don't see this new redefined position as less stable, as originally stated in title :) :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: This sounds very promising!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 At best, an official offer in writing. At the very least, an email summary that the CEO specifically agrees with IN WRITING. This can be a simple email reply. Will the paper DH wrote up work? It isn't an option to have CEO sign something. DH passed that by his current direct boss and he said it would be terribly offensive. This guy is known for treating people great and being a man of his word. If it was a different company and DH didn't know him so well then that would be a different story. I was also thinking that maybe I wasn't clear in my update that we are no longer talking about the original position with the promise of a move up....we are talking about an instant increase in position. A completely different position! The one they said they wanted to work him into eventually, but without the wait :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Will the paper DH wrote up work? It isn't an option to have CEO sign something. DH passed that by his current direct boss and he said it would be terribly offensive. This guy is known for treating people great and being a man of his word. If it was a different company and DH didn't know him so well then that would be a different story. I wonder if it could be worded to make sure that expectations are clearly outlined. Something that says: The new position of Grand Poobahs responsibilities are, xyz. The Assistant Poobah and The 2nd Assistant Poobah will report directly to the Grand Poobah. The Grand Poobah will report to The Grand Poobah King. The pay for Grand Poobah will be $0 and benefits will be xyz (or typical company benefits). Increases in pay are based on xyz, and will increase at a minimum of COL+1% or xyz per year. The existing Blue and Green departments will be joined overseen by the Grand Poohbah, and decisions made for growth in those departments will be made by the The Grand Poobah, King and CFO, and other VIP, Growth will be determined by Sales/New Customers/Streamlined Data Entry/Product Development etc. Not necessarily a commitment of pay, so much as a definition of the new position and hierarchy of staff. I would try to put the pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 At the very least, if they do offer him the position, I imagine their HR dept would get involved. They will formalize things. I always had papers to sign when I received a raise and/or promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 I wonder if it could be worded to make sure that expectations are clearly outlined. Something that says: The new position of Grand Poobahs responsibilities are, xyz. The Assistant Poobah and The 2nd Assistant Poobah will report directly to the Grand Poobah. The Grand Poobah will report to The Grand Poobah King. The pay for Grand Poobah will be $0 and benefits will be xyz (or typical company benefits). Increases in pay are based on xyz, and will increase at a minimum of COL+1% or xyz per year. The existing Blue and Green departments will be joined overseen by the Grand Poohbah, and decisions made for growth in those departments will be made by the The Grand Poobah, King and CFO, and other VIP, Growth will be determined by Sales/New Customers/Streamlined Data Entry/Product Development etc. Not necessarily a commitment of pay, so much as a definition of the new position and hierarchy of staff. I would try to put the pay Everything but the pay and pay increases are outlined in the "plan" DH gave to the CEO. The pay has not been fully discussed. All we know at this point is that the CEO seemed very favorable about moving DH into the position rather than starting him off laterally and that the pay will be more than he makes now and will increase with DH's performance. This company is usually good for rewarding hard work. We were in a tough, jobless spot when DH started working there. He started barely above minimum wage and had to work two jobs. They have increased him steadily over the last 12 years. His current position was created years ago specifically for DH. I was never worried about this company's treatment of DH. I was concerned about that one lateral position that seemed to have an unusual amount of turnover, but could eventually work into the position that DH is now seeking in lieu of the lateral. I know it is all so confusing because the position DH is talking with CEO about now is different than the one I originally talked about in post #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artichoke Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I was also thinking that maybe I wasn't clear in my update that we are no longer talking about the original position with the promise of a move up....we are talking about an instant increase in position. A completely different position! The one they said they wanted to work him into eventually, but without the wait :) Since the goal of the company is to merge the two departments with your husband at the lead, could he assume the additional duties for a specified time before moving into a new position/ job title? It would be more hours and the same pay the short term, but his original position would still be there if the plan didn't work out. Just thinking of this as a safeguard since it appears that a higher position is being offered which didn't exist before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Everything but the pay and pay increases are outlined in the "plan" DH gave to the CEO. The pay has not been fully discussed. All we know at this point is that the CEO seemed very favorable about moving DH into the position rather than starting him off laterally and that the pay will be more than he makes now and will increase with DH's performance. This company is usually good for rewarding hard work. We were in a tough, jobless spot when DH started working there. He started barely above minimum wage and had to work two jobs. They have increased him steadily over the last 12 years. His current position was created years ago specifically for DH. I was never worried about this company's treatment of DH. I was concerned about that one lateral position that seemed to have an unusual amount of turnover, but could eventually work into the position that DH is now seeking in lieu of the lateral. I know it is all so confusing because the position DH is talking with CEO about now is different than the one I originally talked about in post #1. Well it sounds like you have had a good history with the company following through and treating people well. I am glad the plan is on paper, but I would still try to get them to sign off on it. People do leave companies, people get hurt, people die. The powers that be, may not be the same powers that be next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Since the goal of the company is to merge the two departments with your husband at the lead, could he assume the additional duties for a specified time before moving into a new position/ job title? It would be more hours and the same pay the short term, but his original position would still be there if the plan didn't work out. Just thinking of this as a safeguard since it appears that a higher position is being offered which didn't exist before. The "new" position is to go ahead and merge and have dh over both now, rather than waiting. Originally they wanted him to move from department A to department B and do a job similar to his A job but in B. Then they would put him over A and B after an unspecified amount of time. We were uncomfortable with that since his official title in B vs A is a lower title. So dh went to CEO and made a game plan to go ahead and merge this aspect of the departments which gives an increase in title and pay. This is the new position we are speaking of not something different. I'm having a hard time communicating it all in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I know the laws are different but there should be an updated job description and contract etc for legal and tax purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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