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I was so excited to hear that there is a homeschool group here in our little town. My daughter desperately wants to go to school for the social interaction, and I have been searching for other social outlets for her. But the group member I was introduced to told me that we are not Christians, and we are apparently not welcome.

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Well, that's not very Christianly like.  So sorry that that happened to you and your daughter.  I hope you find a social outlet that fits your family soon. 

 

And yes, like Sadie said, it can be done with different religions within a co-op/group.  You are probably better off without them then.

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I've been searching--there's a more inclusive group down south of here, but it's a 50 minute drive to most of their activities. I've been trying to get together people I know around here, but since all of my friends either A) send their kids to preschool and public school or B) are welcome in the established group, it's hard to generate much interest. We considered sending her to school because of this, until we found out just how bad the school here really is.

 

ETA: oh, is that how you make those smileys? Can't figure out how to change that to just a B.

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ETA: oh, is that how you make those smileys? Can't figure out how to change that to just a B.

Put a space between B and ) or it becomes a smiley B)

 

Hope you find something suitable for your child. Here there are all inclusive groups but all require driving during the weekday so I can't commit being a non-driver.

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Sorry you hit upon an intolerant person who seems to think that people of different/no faith aren't worth spending time with. It might just be worth speaking with one or two other parents from the group, in case they are all nice and welcoming except for the one you talked to.

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Yeah, I've seen this a time or two. I'm a devout Christian myself, but I won't join groups like that.  That type of attitude drives me nuts. How frustrating for you.  I agree with IsabelC.  Maybe you can try to meet some of the people in the group in a different setting to avoid such nonsense.

 I'm an OE Christian but  I can understand if it's a Creationist study with Ken Ham materials or a religious co-op that focuses on doctrine and apologetics that they should only have like minded people participate.  But if the content and focus isn't along those lines, I can't think of a good reason to exclude non-Christians as participants or leaders. I've never been the leader of a group, so there may be some reason for this policy that I've never thought about before.

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Non YEC parent takes child to co-op. The group studies YEC topic. Later, parent privately "corrects" the "wrong" teachings from co-op, reminding child to tread carefully when discussing that topic among her peers, and emphasizing that it's good and interesting to learn about others' beliefs. I can't see how that scenario would be a problem for any reasonable YEC home educating parent in the group.

 

Alternative scenario. Parent finds out what the child has been taught, uses her choice of colorful language to express her opinion of the group, and encourages child to tell her peers that they are Stupid and Wrong. In this scenario, the problem is a gross lack of courtesy, not the lack of precisely matched religious beliefs. The group can restrict membership all they want, and still wind up with somebody who is a rude so-and-so (because, whaddaya know, that type of person can come from any faith background).

 

It really irritates me that home schoolers are such a minority in the first place, and yet some of us insist of all this infighting. Can't we just STOP and all support each other instead of having all this religious vs secular, OEC vs YEC, school at home vs unschooling and so on? It reminds me of this:

 

 

 

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well, are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are your Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too! Are you Methodist or Baptist?"
He said, "Baptist!"
I said, "Wow! Me too! Are your Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
He said, "Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are your Original Baptist Church of God or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.

 

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The only time it can get awkward or tricky that I've seen is in co-ops where the parents trade off leading a subject or class. That's the only use I could see for faith statements, like a religious school, if that is how they wanted to run things. But using your OE example, if I has running the co-op with religious material I might discuss why I wouldn't ask you to teach our science class (which would probably involve YEC) but suggest an alternate activity that wouldn't create a theological conflict for you or the families.

 

 

 

Now this is an excellent example of how someone handles these situations reasonably and respectfully.

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Non YEC parent takes child to co-op. The group studies YEC topic. Later, parent privately "corrects" the "wrong" teachings from co-op, reminding child to tread carefully when discussing that topic among her peers, and emphasizing that it's good and interesting to learn about others' beliefs. I can't see how that scenario would be a problem for any reasonable YEC home educating parent in the group.

 

 

See, another great way to handle it.  It really isn't all that hard when we really try.  I do this kind of thing with my kids when we go to church.

 

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Actually, I don't know if we would technically be banned from the group or not. The other mom brought up her church and invited us to come, and when I told her where we attend church she realized I am Mormon. She said, "Oh. Well, we are Christian." When I told her, "Yes, so are we." She said, "No, you are not." I asked her if we would not be welcome in the group, and she said, "I don't know. Maybe I could ask the ladies in charge. I guess maybe you could come and we could teach you about the truth."

 

So, we may not actually be banned, but it's pretty clear that we are not welcome to come believing as we are. I would be happy to go to a Christian homeschooling group with other denominations, but not if they are planning on telling my children that they are not real Christians because our beliefs are not exactly the same as theirs.

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Actually, I don't know if we would technically be banned from the group or not. The other mom brought up her church and invited us to come, and when I told her where we attend church she realized I am Mormon. She said, "Oh. Well, we are Christian." When I told her, "Yes, so are we." She said, "No, you are not." I asked her if we would not be welcome in the group, and she said, "I don't know. Maybe I could ask the ladies in charge. I guess maybe you could come and we could teach you about the truth."

 

Possibly she was just an idiot who doesn't represent the group?

 

I have discussions with my kids about the differences between what I believe and what their Sunday School teacher believes - maybe I should look for a less conservative church!

 

So, we may not actually be banned, but it's pretty clear that we are not welcome to come believing as we are. I would be happy to go to a Christian homeschooling group with other denominations, but not if they are planning on telling my children that they are not real Christians because our beliefs are not exactly the same as theirs.

 

 

Sorry I have moved the end quote to the correct place but can't face redoing it all.

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:grouphug:

 

Over the decades I have belonged or been in contact with "Christian" groups that are not able to tolerate anyone who doesn't share their exact beliefs. They truly don't know how to interact with others. Many of them are not being rude. Their belief system goes so much deeper than that.

 

Within any group of people, there are those that use whatever tools available to gain power and to abuse. There are scriptures that can be used as tools to do bad, instead of good. If those who have gained power didn't have those tools they would just use others. There are very handy tools in Christianity, just like there are in any belief system.

 

Getting a Christian group to isolate itself is one of the ways it's leaders gain power. These ladies probably really don't know how to interact with people not being exposed to these leaders and their teachings.

 

Many times when I see something going on in a Christian circle and identify the exact tools of abuse, people think I am attacking Christianity. I am not, though! Every group has abusers and every group has handy tools. I'm just identifying the handy tools, being used.

 

The worst case of abuse against women I ever saw, was among a group of matriarchal pagans. The women's "power" was actually used against them to abuse them in a most shocking way. That episode cured me of any ideas that patriarchy was a bad thing, even though it had been used as a tool by Christians to harm me. I learned that it's all about just using whatever tools are handy.

 

When I see isolation among any group, I often see leaders that are at the head of that. Those that are under the influence of those leaders are often not being rude. Often, they are victims. Victims can say and do mean things, without understanding what they are doing. I know I did in the past.

 

I'm sorry you are being excluded. But...maybe this isn't a place of health, that you should be in.

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Actually, I don't know if we would technically be banned from the group or not. The other mom brought up her church and invited us to come, and when I told her where we attend church she realized I am Mormon. She said, "Oh. Well, we are Christian." When I told her, "Yes, so are we." She said, "No, you are not." I asked her if we would not be welcome in the group, and she said, "I don't know. Maybe I could ask the ladies in charge. I guess maybe you could come and we could teach you about the truth."

 

So, we may not actually be banned, but it's pretty clear that we are not welcome to come believing as we are. I would be happy to go to a Christian homeschooling group with other denominations, but not if they are planning on telling my children that they are not real Christians because our beliefs are not exactly the same as theirs.

:ohmy:  :glare:  :thumbdown:

 

Wow, judgmental and narrow minded much?  That's just lame!  

 

Are there any local newspapers that would let you put a free add in asking for anyone who is homeschooling that wants an inclusive group to meet at a local library on a certain day at a certain time or something?  You could read with the kids while you wait.  Maybe you might get a couple of families that way and grow your own group from there....

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Where I am it is common for tutorials to not only require families to sign a statement of faith but to also require a letter from a pastor verifying that you are an active member of a congregation. It is not uncommon for tutorials to require high schoolers to write a statement explaining their personal relationship with Jesus or for the tutorial to require an interview with the student where the student is asked about such things. Generally speaking, the Protestant tutorials here are very exclusive- much more so than the Protestant private schools in the area.

 

I vote to do your own thing. Are there yahoo or FB groups in your area where you can send out field trip information? If so, join those and, whenever you want to go somewhere send it out to all the groups you are on. Start the e-mail/ post with everyone welcome. :) If you are excluded, I am sure there are others being excluded and others who think the exclusion is awful, and you only need a few of these families to build a more inclusive situation for you and your child.

 

HTH-

Mandy

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Where I am it is common for tutorials to not only require families to sign a statement of faith but to also require a letter from a pastor verifying that you are an active member of a congregation. It is not uncommon for tutorials to require high schoolers to write a statement explaining their personal relationship with Jesus or for the tutorial to require an interview with the student where the student is asked about such things. Generally speaking, the Protestant tutorials here are very exclusive- much more so than the Protestant private schools in the area.

 

I vote to do your own thing. Are there yahoo or FB groups in your area where you can send out field trip information? If so, join those and, whenever you want to go somewhere send it out to all the groups you are on. Start the e-mail/ post with everyone welcome. :) If you are excluded, I am sure there are others being excluded and others who think the exclusion is awful, and you only need a few of these families to build a more inclusive situation for you and your child.

 

HTH-

Mandy

Tutorials?  Is that like a co-op?  Sorry, not trying to derail the thread.  I just have not heard this term used in this way.  Could you explain this a bit?  Sorry.  :)

 

And WOW that is just such an uncomfortable mindset to me.  I am Protestant but I HATE SOFs and I have thankfully never had to provide anything to anyone from my pastor.  Goodness...

 

I agree with Mandy and others, put in some serious effort into forming your own group.  Wish I lived near you.  I'd join.  :)

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Tutorials? Is that like a co-op? Sorry, not trying to derail the thread. I just have not heard this term used in this way. Could you explain this a bit? Sorry. :)

 

And WOW that is just such an uncomfortable mindset to me. I am Protestant but I HATE SOFs and I have thankfully never had to provide anything to anyone from my pastor. Goodness...

 

I agree with Mandy and others, put in some serious effort into forming your own group. Wish I lived near you. I'd join. :)

Tutorials are typically a drop-off situation, whereas co-ops require a parent stay in the building. The liability with tutorials requires that they meet guidelines similar to a daycare regarding things like insurance, fire codes, and such depending on the number hours and days they meet and the ages of the children involved.

 

While there are a ton of homeschoolers in my area, there isn't a meet-all-your-needs group like I have heard some people describe. Families often build community around those families in their co-op or tutorial. So, although there might be a huge field trip or homeschool day posted to a lot of message type boards, you can show up and not have anyone speak to you or your kids, because people tend to have these smaller groups.

 

Here is a registration page for a tutorial near me, and this certainly isn't the most exclusive in the area.

http://www.westharpeth.org/Tutorial/Registration.html

 

Mandy

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If it's a coop then you will be required to teach your share. The coop wants moms, though, that they don't have to worry about what they're teaching because they know your beliefs. Most coops are for extracurricular like history and science, which pose problems. Yes, this mom sounds uneducated in different denominations. I would go your own way or see if you can just do field trips with them.

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Tutorials are typically a drop-off situation, whereas co-ops require a parent stay in the building. The liability with tutorials requires that they meet guidelines similar to a daycare regarding things like insurance, fire codes, and such depending on the number hours and days they meet and the ages of the children involved.

 

While there are a ton of homeschoolers in my area, there isn't a meet-all-your-needs group like I have heard some people describe. Families often build community around those families in their co-op or tutorial. So, although there might be a huge field trip or homeschool day posted to a lot of message type boards, you can show up and not have anyone speak to you or your kids, because people tend to have these smaller groups.

 

Here is a registration page for a tutorial near me, and this certainly isn't the most exclusive in the area.

http://www.westharpeth.org/Tutorial/Registration.html

 

Mandy

Thanks Mandy!  That explains a lot!  :)

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Actually, I don't know if we would technically be banned from the group or not. The other mom brought up her church and invited us to come, and when I told her where we attend church she realized I am Mormon. She said, "Oh. Well, we are Christian." When I told her, "Yes, so are we." She said, "No, you are not." I asked her if we would not be welcome in the group, and she said, "I don't know. Maybe I could ask the ladies in charge. I guess maybe you could come and we could teach you about the truth."

 

So, we may not actually be banned, but it's pretty clear that we are not welcome to come believing as we are. I would be happy to go to a Christian homeschooling group with other denominations, but not if they are planning on telling my children that they are not real Christians because our beliefs are not exactly the same as theirs.

I'm sorry. :( This happened to us too. Thankfully all communication was done via email and u never met anyone from the group.

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Thanks, everyone. I haven't given up on getting together another group. I hadn't thought of posting something in the newspaper. It also occurred to me that I could send out an email to the group south of here to see if anyone in that group lives up this way and would like to get together.

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Actually, I don't know if we would technically be banned from the group or not. The other mom brought up her church and invited us to come, and when I told her where we attend church she realized I am Mormon. She said, "Oh. Well, we are Christian." When I told her, "Yes, so are we." She said, "No, you are not." I asked her if we would not be welcome in the group, and she said, "I don't know. Maybe I could ask the ladies in charge. I guess maybe you could come and we could teach you about the truth."

 

So, we may not actually be banned, but it's pretty clear that we are not welcome to come believing as we are. I would be happy to go to a Christian homeschooling group with other denominations, but not if they are planning on telling my children that they are not real Christians because our beliefs are not exactly the same as theirs.

It could be just that one person, unless the group requires a signed statement if faith. We have participated in several Christian oriented groups over the years in which we were the only LDS family. Some people have been wary of us but others have become good friends.

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Ignorance is an expensive commodity. That group won't know what it is missing by excluding you.

 

Another way to look at your daughter's need to socialize might be this: by getting her school stuff done by such-and-such a time (say 3:00), she is free to hang out with friends from your neighborhood and ward. Does she have friends at church that could come over when their homework is done or on Saturdays? Growing up, that was one of the reasons my mom homeschooled us She required hours of music practicing from us which, if we had gone to public school, would have nullified any time to play with friends. As a homeschooler, I could get all my work and practicing done by the time my friends got home from school.

 

Our family doesn't participate in co-ops (for many reasons). We prefer to just have friends come over for unstructured play time when schoolwork is done. Or my kids go to their house. This may not be possible in all situations, but it is just another way of looking at options.

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I was so excited to hear that there is a homeschool group here in our little town. My daughter desperately wants to go to school for the social interaction, and I have been searching for other social outlets for her. But the group member I was introduced to told me that we are not Christians, and we are apparently not welcome.

 

We are also LDS. We moved to a new area just a month before school was about to start (this was before we decided to homeschool). I desperately tried to find a preschool for my 4 year old to prepare her for kindergarten. All pre-schools in our area were full and we were on several waiting lists when I found a delightful private christian school that had a preschool in it. I completed the entire application (which was very detailed and lengthly) before touring the school with the principal. It was perfect and I was sure it would be a great fit for my daughter. At the very end of the tour, the principal asked which religion we were members of and I told him we were Mormon. He later went on to explain that we would not be accepted into the school because of our belief in the Book of Mormon. I was so broken hearted because we had no other preschool options. I could not understand how our belief in the Book of Mormon would change our status at the school. I later emailed him and tried to explain a little more about my religion and asked him to reconsider our application. I never heard back from him. 

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Another way to look at your daughter's need to socialize might be this: by getting her school stuff done by such-and-such a time (say 3:00), she is free to hang out with friends from your neighborhood and ward. Does she have friends at church that could come over when their homework is done or on Saturdays? Growing up, that was one of the reasons my mom homeschooled us She required hours of music practicing from us which, if we had gone to public school, would have nullified any time to play with friends. As a homeschooler, I could get all my work and practicing done by the time my friends got home from school.

There is only one other LDS family with school-aged kids in our town, and their boys are not very eager to play with a younger girl. Unfortunately, we don't really have a neighborhood, either. But maybe I could try to plan lots of play dates in the afternoons.

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Some groups are taught that outsiders are going to call them "rude". This is explained with scripture, and if they think you think they are rude, it only reinforces what their leader said to expect from outsiders, and encourages further isolation.

 

People under the control of leadership that encourages isolation are not rude. It's just not an accurate description of their motives.

 

Being excluded often brings a gut reaction of hurt. If we are strong enough, we need to have compassion and tolerance for these people that don't appear to be having compassion and tolerance for us, even when we are hurting. If we can. If we are strong enough. Not so much the leaders, but those that are being taught by them.

 

I just want to say again, that I am NOT bashing Christianity. I guess I am saying that some "Christian" leaders are abusers, though. There are Christians who believe that all "Christian" leaders should be obeyed and submitted to no matter what, that are going to find my comments dangerous, and feel the need to protect their group from me. And that has been done in the past, when I have advised a hurting and confused and grieving woman not to listen to her mean and judgmental Pastor.

 

So really *I* do need to be excluded from some "Christian" groups, because when someone is being abused, I just cannot keep my mouth shut and not point out the abuse. And pointing out abuse is not allowed if it's done by a "Christian" leader. So, I have to go. Because in the long run, I think I hurt more than help. I'm too socially awkward to be helpful without out being like a bull in a china shop. I charge in to save the damsel in distress, but break things in the process. I do more harm than good.

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We are also LDS.  I had a non-LDS friend invite me to an information meeting for a homeschool support group that was being started at her church.  I went and was very interested.  But they had a statement of faith that was 2 pages, single-spaced.  It was so detailed that it was clear that not only did you have to be Protestant to join, but their particular brand of Protestant.  I am afraid that this is very common.  Statements of faith are usually designed to exclude particular people.  And it can be really heartbreaking when I all you are looking for is a community.  

 

But the good thing about this was that my friend recognized right away what was going on, and she came to me and apologized.  Not everyone agrees with having a statement of faith, but some people are scared that their children will be taught false doctrine and really feel it is necessary.  So I have tried to remember my friend's reaction and understand that the statement of faith is not a statement of each individual's faith.  

 

There are 4 co-ops in our area.  Two require a statement of faith.  The secular one is as secular as the christian ones are christian, as in, you better leave your religion at the door.  The last one is christian and doesn't ask for a statement of faith, but it is really, really expensive.  

 

So as I met people, I collected their contact information.  After a year, I had met enough people to start meeting at the park.  I am glad that I didn't limit my contacts to homeschoolers, because some people ended up homeschooling who hadn't expected to, and others put their kids in school but stayed in the group.  We have a very casual group, and not everyone comes all the time.  But people plan outings and field trips when they feel like it, and it has worked very well.  

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Michelle,

 

Now that I know a little more about your situation, I say forget them! If your kids will attend sports activities in the future, you'll meet more people.

 

Plus, with 4 little ones, you are busy! I know because my kids were born the same year as yours. Except in 2014 we bought a puppy. Lol. Still a lot of work because I had to train him to potty on the pad right away. :)

 

I just obtained 2 friends through my daughter's ballet class. And wouldn't you know it, they are Mormons too! We just did 6 science classes together. Now we are going to meet at the pool next week.

 

You are not missing anything by not being in that group. I agree with the others, start your own group or just have play dates.

 

I wish you luck and so sorry that this happened to you and the other poster ( sorry so many posts that I don't remember your username).

 

Many blessings to you.

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Actually, I don't know if we would technically be banned from the group or not. The other mom brought up her church and invited us to come, and when I told her where we attend church she realized I am Mormon. She said, "Oh. Well, we are Christian." When I told her, "Yes, so are we." She said, "No, you are not." I asked her if we would not be welcome in the group, and she said, "I don't know. Maybe I could ask the ladies in charge. I guess maybe you could come and we could teach you about the truth."

 

So, we may not actually be banned, but it's pretty clear that we are not welcome to come believing as we are. I would be happy to go to a Christian homeschooling group with other denominations, but not if they are planning on telling my children that they are not real Christians because our beliefs are not exactly the same as theirs.

 

So, um, how is it up to her to decide if you are Christian or not?  Wouldn't that be your decision about whether you are or are not Christian?

 

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If you build it, they will come.  Start a small group at the local library, meet at the park, and be friendly.

 

 

I'm a Christian, a PW....and I prefer to steer clear of exclusively Christian groups.  Homeschool Co-op is not church. Hunter has some excellent points that I can affirm even though we have vastly different life experiences.  You just don't need Spiritual abuses happening in art class.

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If you build it, they will come.  S 

 

:iagree:

 

And your kids are so young, and so close in age, that you have quite a bit of time to build a group and/or friendships. 

 

The biggest key to success is being consistent and persistent. You can't have half a dozen park days or meetups and get discouraged because only a few people show up each time. You have to really commit to you and your kids being in the same place at the same time for months and months in order to meet people and build up some regulars. 

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We have a coop that does require a statement of faith.  We have always allowed all people as long as they "respect" the sof.  Basically, do not teach outside of these guidelines.  Personally I do not choose to lead classes that this is even an issue. Our group is not afraid that someone with another faith will ruin our kids!  We are more like letting everyone know that we will not hold back our faith and attempt to tread lightly so as to not offend anyone.  We have had several families of differing faiths attend.  I do fear that they may be under scrutiny by some. 

 

I am sorry that someone has made you feel unwelcome.  My guess is she is the minority and don't judge the whole group by her.

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Yeah, our only homeschool co-op for over an hour in any direction is exclusive (by making people sign a faith statement that is very Evangelical Protestant) to Catholics, LDS, and (though I don't think they mean to be) Orthodox, Episcopals, and Lutherans. I am Catholic, therefore not a Christian and not worthy of having social interaction for my kids apparently. 

 

So a friend (Protestant Christian) and I (Catholic Christian) started our own homeschool co-op, and now ours is bigger and better (52 students, 17 families so far and our session is in September) and we have our own classrooms in a basement of a Presbyterian Church, ha! We have Protestants, Catholics, Agnostics, a bit of everything in our area (small area, no LDS but we'd be happy to welcome them if there were). Everyone is united in our desire to educate our kids and provide a healthy community and help each other teach the subjects that are difficult for some to teach or are more fun in groups. We assume everyone is teaching faith at home and in church and respect those beliefs, we come together on subjects we all share in common. 

 

So if you find there are no inclusive homeschool groups in your area find some other like-minded parents and begin a new co-op. I bet if that is truly a policy of the group then there are others who were disappointed and frustrated to find themselves excluded. If you're willing to mingle with others of various faiths then you can start a non-religiously based co-op. If there are many LDS in your area you could see about starting a specifically LDS co-op. Or just call it Christian and write a faith statement that is so specific to your faith's doctrines that nobody else can sign it and tell them they're not Christian since they can't sign it ;) (just kidding about that last one of course)

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So a friend (Protestant Christian) and I (Catholic Christian) started our own homeschool co-op, and now ours is bigger and better (52 students, 17 families so far and our session is in September) and we have our own classrooms in a basement of a Presbyterian Church, ha! We have Protestants, Catholics, Agnostics, a bit of everything in our area (small area, no LDS but we'd be happy to welcome them if there were). Everyone is united in our desire to educate our kids and provide a healthy community and help each other teach the subjects that are difficult for some to teach or are more fun in groups. We assume everyone is teaching faith at home and in church and respect those beliefs, we come together on subjects we all share in common. 

 

 

I would love to join your co-op!  

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:grouphug:  How very judgmentally non-Christian of them!

 

Our small town has a homeschool group that includes members from many of the churches in town, but the group is open to anyone. We do have a couple of members who aren't thrilled about some of us (agnostic or Catholics) and at least one of their kids tried to bring one of mine to "the truth." But in the group as a whole, we welcome anyone who homeschools. I agree with the PP who said we homeschoolers are enough of a minority we should stick together.

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