Help me figure this out. Kids, chores, horses, and hot.

[fairfarmhand]

Alrighty, we are having a slight conflict here on the farm.

 

We have 4 horses that the kids ride. We also have limited acreage so that we have to limit the number of animals that are grazing on the property. For use to have horses is a sacrifice of carrying another cow. So if we didn't have horses, we'd have 4 more cows that could bring us more cash. In this year of high beef prices, we'd have made an extra 5000 if we didn't have horses.  That's not counting the money that we spend on supplies, tack repairs and feet trimming.

 

We bought the horses for the kids. Any of the kids can ride any of the horses except for one. He's a younger, spirited horse and only my oldest dd has the fire and skill to ride him. She loves him. They've bonded.

 

The problem is this. I want the horses to be ridden at least twice a week throughout the year, except for the 4 winter months. Because of the risk of slipping on ice and  mud and because of our terrain, we try to avoid riding them in winter for safety.

 

My dd says that if it's hot, she shouldn't have to ride. So, because we live in the south, when you add in winter, we'd be keeping horses to ride only 6 months of the year. That's about 50 rides. For a cost of 5000 per year. Even if we just did once a week in the summer, that still seems like a boatload of money to keep the horses.

 

My dd says that we aren't losing money because of horses, we are simply not making money that we could.

 

She says that if the horses are supposed to be fun, and riding is unpleasant in the heat, she shouldn't have to ride unless it's going to be fun. (I can sort of see her point here)

 

However, if horses aren't ridden, they don't behave as well. They need attention and crave affection. They need consistency.

 

If it were up to me, I'd sell them all, or at least the one that only my oldest can ride. I don't ride at all and have no desire to do so. However, my dd would be extremely unhappy about that.

 

So far, the conflict isn't heated. I'd like to keep it that way. Part of the problem is that my dd isn't as interested in actually doing farm stuff as much as she likes the idea of having a farm and riding horses. IOW, she wants the fun and none of the work. Well, who wouldn't, but personally, I do get a certain amount of satisfaction out of working the garden, milking, spraying trees etc. whereas those types of things bring her no joy at all.

 

Does anyone have a solution?

 

I'm considering tying her horse riding to her weekend activities. She gets annoyed if I nag her about riding, but if she isn't reminded, she never rides.

 

Ideas? Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[MiMi 4under3]

Can you make it a required "subject?"

 

Say, Monday/Thursday: Math Grammar, Reading, Horseback Riding, Lunch, History, Spelling... that sort of thing. Call it gym class?

[Spryte]

You're right that the horses need to be ridden.  Maybe you can make that point - that it's not the money, it's about good horsemanship.

 

I grew up with horses.  It was hot.  Oh, so very hot.  And I just had to ride.  I taught lessons through the summer, and where I taught we had a pool.  That pool felt soooo good.  But at home, with my own horses - there was no pool.  I just had to deal.  Do I sound like I walked uphill both ways?  I don't mean to sound that way.  :) 

 

Making it a school subject is a good idea.  Or requiring it X number of times per week to do something else.

 

 

[katilac]

Riding a horse is a fun activity. 

 

Owning a horse is a responsibility. A horse is a living creature with needs of its own. It doesn't exist for her pleasure. The 'cost per ride' is an acceptable factor to consider, for sure, but even more important is the fact that the horse will surely do better with regular attention and exercise. 

 

I'd explore the concept of net worth with her until she understands that leaving money on the table is definitely a cost. 

 

Twice a week for 8 months of the year is a very bare minimum, imo. If four kids can't manage 8 rides a week, then I would reduce the number of horses until that was manageable. 

 

I would also strongly consider selling the horses and using the money saved to bring them horseback riding several times during the pleasant times of year. 

 

 

 

 

[Cakes]

I also had horses when I was younger and it got quite hot. I agree with presenting to her the horse's position. He NEEDS exercise, even when it is hot. Can she longe him for exercise? what about early AM rides or sunset rides?

 

I think she just needs to understand that the horse's needs come first.

[fairfarmhand]

Riding a horse is a fun activity. 

 

Owning a horse is a responsibility. A horse is a living creature with needs of its own. It doesn't exist for her pleasure. The 'cost per ride' is an acceptable factor to consider, for sure, but even more important is the fact that the horse will surely do better with regular attention and exercise. 

 

I'd explore the concept of net worth with her until she understands that leaving money on the table is definitely a cost. 

 

Twice a week for 8 months of the year is a very bare minimum, imo. If four kids can't manage 8 rides a week, then I would reduce the number of horses until that was manageable. 

 

I would also strongly consider selling the horses and using the money saved to bring them horseback riding several times during the pleasant times of year. 

AHHH!!!!

 

ding ding ding....

 

You have hit on it.

 

I thought of selling the horses and paying for lessons. Or leasing a horse would even be cheaper. I also considered making a deal with her to sell the advanced horse, buy a cow and let  HER keep/sell a calf to make herself some money. She could still help ride the other horses when she wanted to.

[Ottakee]

We have 3 horses so I understand to some degree---but we don't have cattle.

 

Like someone else said owning a horse is a big responsibility. 

 

Some options:

 

Do a partial lease on one or more of the horses where others come and work with them/show them, trail ride them, etc.   That can work out well and bring in some money but can be a hassle as well.

 

Have dd either do her share of the horse chores or pay one of her siblings a fair amount to do her share of the horse chores.......in the adult world we either have to do our work or pay someone else to do it.

 

Have ride times early in the morning or late in the evening.  2 rides a week is well within the expected amount.  I require my girls to go out with their horses once a day (sometimes more) almost year round.  Occ. in the coldest of winter I don't but otherwise they have to go out side and ride, brush, scoop poop, feed, etc. or some combination of those every day.  Here we ride 5-6-7 times a week almost year round.  We do ride in the winter in snow but not on ice.

 

The other option is to sell the more advanced horse to a rider that will use it to its fullest.  The less it is ridden and worked with the more likely it will be harder to sell.  Horses don't need to be worked hard but they do need consistency and attention.

 

For the cost of keeping her horse she could likely go once a week somewhere and take a lesson and not have the work involved with the horse.........and you could raise another cow.

 

I am not for just upping and selling her horse out from under her but it is very reasonable to expect her to ride the horse regularly and help with the chores if she wants to keep it.  If not, then selling it would be the best option since no one else can ride that horse.

[athomeontheprairie]

What if they ride first thing in the early morning or towards the evening? I too would find that unpleasant, but it does tend to be cooler in the early morning right?

 

That's the only thought I have.

this was also my thought

[jhschool]

No riding, no horse.

 

She doesn't have to ride it between noon and 3 PM when it's really hot.

She could ride a couple hours at sunrise or sunset, every day.

 

I think requiring something twice or three times a week is actually harder than

requiring it Monday through Friday.  Because you get lazy in the

in-between days.  If you do it Monday through Friday, you get into a rhythm and

it becomes a habit that you start liking.

 

I would require riding Monday through Friday, in the early morning or

at sunset, so it's not as hot.  Your daughter can take a nap in the middle

of the day if she needs to get up super early for her cooler-weather ride.

[fairfarmhand]

Thanks so much for the input.

 

I didn't think I was out of line, or expecting too much, but I did want to get the input of other parents and especially those who own or have owned horses.

 

I think I am just going to tie it to normal privileges.

[linders]

I appreciate the whole southern heat thing. I'm in SC, where it will be 98 and humid the next couple of days. She needs to get up early, 5:30 am, have the horse saddled and ready to ride at 6. Otherwise, not fair to the horse or you. You are being fair.

 

 

[Guest submarines]

I wouldn't be tying it in with how much money you can possibly gain by selling the horses. (ETA: I wouldn't even tie it in to normal privileges.) You're diluting the issue. The real issue is responsible horsemanship and the needs of the horses. If she wants to ride only for fun, she can have a weekly lesson or a half-lease.  Hot weather is not an excuse not to ride or work the horse on the ground, unless it is too hot for the horse.

 

There are teens in our barn who muck out for hours in any weather so that they could have that one extra ride a week, a year from now.

[MomatHWTK]

I think the financial considerations should be separate from the care issues.  We all make choices with regard to what we want to give our kids.  So, whether it's $5000 for a horse or a car, or specialized camps, etc. that is spending decision you and DH will have to make.  (Though I get the impression you are leaning toward "Tell me again why we bought horses?"  ;) )

 

As far as being a good steward, I would set a bottom line rule- Any horse that isn't exercised X hours per week is going to be sold or given to a family who can properly care for it.  You will have to come up with a neutral rule to make sure this doesn't result in the younger kids being pressured to ground exercise the feisty horse.  But otherwise, it should be a simple natural consequence.  If you have a dog and you don't feed it, we get rid of the dog.  If you have a social animal needing lots of regular exercise and you can't or won't provide it, then we get rid of the animal.  Make very clear that no one else is willing to put in the work for her to have the reward of riding when she feels like it and then let her decide the outcome. 

 

But leave finances out of it. I know to us adults it makes perfect sense to consider the costs but for the kid it may very well sound like, I've quantified your happiness and it is not worth $x per year to me.  :001_rolleyes:

[KungFuPanda]

I'd do the math. If there are only 4 rides per week among all the kids, their habits can only support 2 horses. Make it a black and white numbers game and let their actions decide how many horses their habits can support. After a month, make necessary cuts. If it's only once or twice a year that they're all on a horse at the same time, 4 is just overkill.

[Liz CA]

What if they ride first thing in the early morning or towards the evening?  I too would find that unpleasant, but it does tend to be cooler in the early morning right?

 

That's the only thought I have.

 

This is what we did in the summer. Ds also rode when he had a little side job feeding someone's pigeons. Can she ride for errands? In the little town where we lived, it was possible but in some places, people would be scared to share the road with a horse and rider - or the rider may be scared to share the road with less considerate drivers.

 

[Haiku]

She says that if the horses are supposed to be fun, and riding is unpleasant in the heat, she shouldn't have to ride unless it's going to be fun. (I can sort of see her point here)

 

That is an incredibly immature and self-centered attitude, but it's not necessarily surprising coming from a 16 year old. My dd would have said something similar at that age.

 

However, that attitude would never fly at my house. It betrays an idea that animals are items to be used or not when it strikes her fancy, and that is not acceptable. As you mentioned, the horses need attention, exercise, and love. If she is not willing to provide it, then she has no business keeping a horse. It's hot? Too bad. It's hot for the horse, too, but he still has needs and desires that necessitate attention. Not adequately meeting an animal's needs is neglect.

 

Were it me, I would tell my dd she is to ride the horse 3 times a week (minimum, personally I would require more) and if, after a month, she has shown me through words, deeds, and/or attitude that she's not up to the responsibility of owning a horse, the horse will be sold to a family that will care for it properly. And no amount of crying and promising to do better when that idea becomes reality will alter my decision.

[Haiku]

I think I am just going to tie it to normal privileges.

 

I wouldn't do this because it encourages her to think of caring for the horse as a hurdle she has to jump to get to something else she wants to do. I think you should be encouraging her to care for the horse because that's what responsible horse owners do.

[Guest submarines]

I wouldn't do this because it encourages her to think of caring for the horse as a hurdle she has to jump to get to something else she wants to do. I think you should be encouraging her to care for the horse because that's what responsible horse owners do.

 

This.

 

[Okra]

I wouldn't do this because it encourages her to think of caring for the horse as a hurdle she has to jump to get to something else she wants to do. I think you should be encouraging her to care for the horse because that's what responsible horse owners do.

 

I also would not tie this to normal life activities.  If you own a horse, you take care of it or it gets sold.  I also agree with the pp that said that this fiery horse should have More consistency.  

 

I have a sixteen year old dd too.  She is my oldest and I have struggled with her inability to see other people's perspectives.  She is a great kid and actually pretty responsible, but I think she should be old enough to look at something from a different perspective, not just her own.  It sounds like your dd is a bit like this also, not seeing your point of view, or even the horse's.

 

I don't know the best way around it, but my gut reaction is that if you tie horse responsibility to normal life activities, then that is not so good.  Horse ownership comes with responsibilities that might not always be fun. If she can't/won't ride the horse enough, then maybe it would be better for the horse for someone else to own it?  Also, in two short years, college may be looming for your dd.  Would you sell the horse then?  Would it be better for you to just sell the horse now?

 

I hope this didn't sound harsh, as I had no intention of it coming out that way.  

[fairfarmhand]

I wouldn't do this because it encourages her to think of caring for the horse as a hurdle she has to jump to get to something else she wants to do. I think you should be encouraging her to care for the horse because that's what responsible horse owners do.

 

In the ideal world....yes. However, the pp who mentioned self-centered and immature nailed it. My dd insists that the horses don't like riding either when its hot.  And she will argue the point till the death. SO, while I'd love her to be motivated by love and concern for her horses, I don't know that it's very realistic. I think she loves the horses as much as a self-centered, immature person can, but because of her limited viewpoint, she tells herself that

"It's so hot, they don;t like riding either."

 

 

I also would not tie this to normal life activities.  If you own a horse, you take care of it or it gets sold.  I also agree with the pp that said that this fiery horse should have More consistency.  

 

I have a sixteen year old dd too.  She is my oldest and I have struggled with her inability to see other people's perspectives.  She is a great kid and actually pretty responsible, but I think she should be old enough to look at something from a different perspective, not just her own.  It sounds like your dd is a bit like this also, not seeing your point of view, or even the horse's.

 

I don't know the best way around it, but my gut reaction is that if you tie horse responsibility to normal life activities, then that is not so good.  Horse ownership comes with responsibilities that might not always be fun. If she can't/won't ride the horse enough, then maybe it would be better for the horse for someone else to own it?  Also, in two short years, college may be looming for your dd.  Would you sell the horse then?  Would it be better for you to just sell the horse now?

 

I hope this didn't sound harsh, as I had no intention of it coming out that way.  

Not harsh at all. Those are so many points that I have raised in my own mind.

 

I've already looked down the road at college and wondered about it.

 

I sort of wish we'd never bought these horses. I feel that she will be crushed, angry, and resentful if we were to sell them, especially the Paint that has turned out to be sort of "hers."

 

She sort of views the horses the same way that we view our cats. However, the horses have much greater need for attention, affection, training, and care than a cat does.

 

I wish I could get her to look at things like that, but she doesn't. Discussions about it quickly get heated.

[BrookValley.]

I can't imagine having to tell a kid who truly wants a horse that she has to ride as part of the responsibilities of having a horse. Meaning, if she doesn't want to ride, she doesn't really want the horse. The riding is the fun part. I mean yeah, I get that it also provides exercise and training and whatnot, so in that regard yes, of course, it's a responsibility and part of being a good horse owner, but....I'd have a serious discussion about selling the horse(s) if they aren't being used. You didn't mention (or if you did, I missed it) if she helps with basic care of the horses, i.e., feeding, mucking, etc. That would also be a deal-breaker for me, for a 16-year old, anyway.

 

My kids are much younger, too young to really help with the horses, but we are looking for a suitable pony for my oldest. The thing that had to happen before I seriously started looking for a pony to buy or lease was that he had to ask for it. I'm not going to ask him if he wants to ride, or ask him to ride, KWIM? He has to want to do it--truly want to do it--before we will take on that responsibility (obviously, given his age, *I* am willing to take on the responsibility of another horse myself, but he would, as appropriate, help out/learn what it takes to take proper care of a horse). If I find a pony, and he doesn't ask *me* if he can ride, I'm selling it/ending the lease. If he just wants a buddy to pet and feed an apple to every now and then, I've got a couple of geriatric pasture potatoes that he can love on. Or he can have a goat. :laugh:

 

(While it doesn't sound like it's the real issue, I do kinda sympathize with your DD on the heat. It was 98 here yesterday, and I rode at 4 p.m., because that was the only day/time I could make work this week. It wasn't very fun, though it did kinda take the wind out of my recently off-the-track thoroughbred's sails, if I have to find a positive. :D )

[fairfarmhand]

See, our horses are kept in the field pretty much all the time.

 

There is no feeding, because they eat grass. There is no mucking out because we just leave the manure as fertilizer.

 

So all that's left is saddling up, spraying for flies, and riding.

 

So I'm like WHAT is the big DEAL?????

[BrookValley.]

And OT, but every time I see that calf in your signature I just want to hug it. :001_wub:  

[BrookValley.]

See, our horses are kept in the field pretty much all the time.

 

There is no feeding, because they eat grass. There is no mucking out because we just leave the manure as fertilizer.

 

So all that's left is saddling up, spraying for flies, and riding.

 

So I'm like WHAT is the big DEAL?????

 

Oh, wow. Yeah. She's got it easy! Mine are in 12 hours per day. During the summer they come in during the day, have fans, etc. (we switch the schedule for winter, naturally). They are sprayed a.m. and p.m. They usually get at least a quick curry/brush once a day. They get breakfast, lunch (top off of water buckets/refill hay racks mid-day, too), and dinner. I usually do a full bath, but if not they at least get hosed and toweled off, after every ride. I have horses at two different farms, so I ride at home and at another farm, which is 25-30 minutes away. Then of course there's all the other little miscellaneous things...pulling manes, clipping, worming, the ones that need fungal stuff for their skin, special stuff for their hooves...that kind of stuff.

 

I think she doesn't really want a horse.

[Ottakee]

Your dd is right, it might be too hot to ride the horse in the middle of the day and the horse might be hot too.............BUT there is early morning and late afternoon/evening to ride.  Your dd has it easy as we have to fill water and scoop poop once a day and throw hay/feed 2-3 times a day.....every day and up to 4 times a day in the worst of winter.

[fairfarmhand]

Your dd is right, it might be too hot to ride the horse in the middle of the day and the horse might be hot too.............BUT there is early morning and late afternoon/evening to ride. 

 

So here's what I get from her.

 

She hates getting up early.

 

She showers in the morning, so if she rides in the evening, she has to shower again.

[Journey]

we have horses (boarded) too.  I do not let my daughter ride if it's over 90 degrees or under 20 degrees.  Yes, horses need exercise (trust me I know this...we have ex race horses turned hunter/jumpers!)  but it isn't good to ride them when it's too hot or too cold, not good for the rider either.

[fairfarmhand]

we have horses (boarded) too.  I do not let my daughter ride if it's over 90 degrees or under 20 degrees.  Yes, horses need exercise but it isn't good to ride them when it's too hot or too cold, not good for the rider either.

 

yes. I understand the heat, but she's refusing to try to find a time to ride them that is workable.

 

Right now, it is 70 degrees first thing in the morning, and about 75 an hour before sunset. She *could* ride at those times.

 

But it's inconvenient for her to ride at those times, so she makes up excuses.

[Miss Peregrine]

So here's what I get from her.

 

She hates getting up early.

 

She showers in the morning, so if she rides in the evening, she has to shower again.

  

yes. I understand the heat, but she's refusing to try to find a time to ride them that is workable.

 

Right now, it is 70 degrees first thing in the morning, and about 75 an hour before sunset. She *could* ride at those times.

 

But it's inconvenient for her to ride at those times, so she makes up excuses.

Time to sell. I would have her help write the ad.

[Anne]

yes. I understand the heat, but she's refusing to try to find a time to ride them that is workable.

 

Right now, it is 70 degrees first thing in the morning, and about 75 an hour before sunset. She *could* ride at those times.

 

But it's inconvenient for her to ride at those times, so she makes up excuses.

 

I think you're on a hamster wheel with this daughter, and you have all my sympathy!!

 

I would tell her that the horse needs attention every single day, no matter what.  If it's too hot in the middle of the day, then she has to find another time.  If she can't find another time, then the horse needs to go live with someone who can.  Because this particular daughter is so difficult, I would offer to pay for riding once or twice a week as a substitute. 

 

I would make this conversation very calm on your part.  State the horse's needs and your requirements for continued ownership.  She will immediately try to engage in whatever way she can.  Ignore it.  Repeat your statement once and exit the room.

 

Stand your ground, mom!!  I know this is hard!!

 

Anne

[Okra]

I agree this is a tough situation.  Here are just a few thoughts.  If you do decide to sell one or more horses can you make it about several different reasons.  Not all about her, and her ability/inability to take on responsibility for a horse, even if that is some of the reason for selling.

 

These may not be completely accurate, so please forgive me if I state something wrong, these are just generic reasons.  But, you might mention that while you thought that it would be wonderful to get four horses originally, but you might have been wrong about the number of horses your family could actually take care of.  Part of the problem might be the parents accidentally buying too many horses.  Best of intentions, but in reality it didn't work out the way you envisioned.  

 

You could sell two horses, this will leave two to care and exercise.  This might work better for your family, and it wouldn't seem like you were selling "her" horse only.

 

Many people make tough financial decisions.  Selling a horse or two and getting two more cows would put your family in a better financial place to pay for looming college costs and such.  Thousands of families make tough financial choices all the time that may not make them happy, but it is the reality of what needs to be done.

 

Take the long view, I realize that right now you or she may have no idea about college plans, but if she will be moving away in a few years that would also be a potential reason to sell the horse now.

 

Plus, rehoming an animal isn't necessarily a bad thing.  If it ends up being a better life experience for the horse/horses then that is also a good reason.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

 

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

Thanks for all of the input.

 

Honestly, I mentioned this to my dd the other day in passing, but we've not had a huge discussion about it this summer yet.

 

I was wanting to get my mental ducks in a row so to speak before I opened the discussion.

 

I think I do need to take the cash issue off the table and make it more about riding the horses, giving them the attention and care that they need.

 

She's at the stage where she wants everything except responsibility. All the fun, none of the work.

 

I have a good friend (she actually sold us 2 of the horses) and I am going to call her next week. She owns a stable, giving riding lessons, boarding and leasing horses, etc. I'm going to ask her about how the horses handle heat and how they need to be ridden. Not that I don't know what I am talking about (this gal rides 10-15 horses every day) but just so I can have an "authority" behind me. My dd respects this gal because she took lessons from her and this lady competes and trains horses every single day.

[katilac]

Discussions about it quickly get heated.

 

 

So here's what I get from her.

 

She hates getting up early.

 

She showers in the morning, so if she rides in the evening, she has to shower again.

 

Please take what you can from this post, and ignore the rest. It is all gently meant, and meant in support of you. I'm projecting like crazy, I'm sure, and I don't know your dd, but this post (and others) make me say omg I know your dd, lol, because I grew up with her as a sibling.

 

She will always have a negative answer to any suggestion that doesn't fit what she has already decided she wants to do.  

 

She will be mad at you if you sell the horse. She will also be mad at you if you don't sell the horse. Not now, but a couple of years from now, she will ask why on earth didn't you sell that horse, so you would now have money to send her to XYZ college or to study abroad, or so she would have had more time to pursue her real interests, which you should have somehow intuited.  

 

With some people, it doesn't matter how hard you try to see their point of view or explain your point of view. And that doesn't make them horrible people, and it doesn't mean we don't love them, but it sure does mean they can be hard to deal with. 

 

My life became easier when I realized my sister was going to spend a certain percentage of the time p!ssed off at me, no matter what I did, lol. A weight was lifted when I realized that it wasn't me and my decisions that were making her upset, really, and there was nothing I could do to make her happy and content more often - just like Loki, satisfaction wasn't in her nature. 

 

I realize that you have a different role as a parent than I did as a sibling, but I wanted to empathize. My sister could make me question myself and my motives like no one else, and it took me a long time to gain confidence in my decisions and let go of the guilt of how making perfectly reasonable decisions could ruin her life on a regular basis  :lol:

[fairfarmhand]

Please take what you can from this post, and ignore the rest. It is all gently meant, and meant in support of you. I'm projecting like crazy, I'm sure, and I don't know your dd, but this post (and others) make me say omg I know your dd, lol, because I grew up with her as a sibling.

 

She will always have a negative answer to any suggestion that doesn't fit what she has already decided she wants to do.  

 

She will be mad at you if you sell the horse. She will also be mad at you if you don't sell the horse. Not now, but a couple of years from now, she will ask why on earth didn't you sell that horse, so you would now have money to send her to XYZ college or to study abroad, or so she would have had more time to pursue her real interests, which you should have somehow intuited.  

 

With some people, it doesn't matter how hard you try to see their point of view or explain your point of view. And that doesn't make them horrible people, and it doesn't mean we don't love them, but it sure does mean they can be hard to deal with. 

 

My life became easier when I realized my sister was going to spend a certain percentage of the time p!ssed off at me, no matter what I did, lol. A weight was lifted when I realized that it wasn't me and my decisions that were making her upset, really, and there was nothing I could do to make her happy and content more often - just like Loki, satisfaction wasn't in her nature. 

 

I realize that you have a different role as a parent than I did as a sibling, but I wanted to empathize. My sister could make me question myself and my motives like no one else, and it took me a long time to gain confidence in my decisions and let go of the guilt of how making perfectly reasonable decisions could ruin her life on a regular basis  :lol:

 

wow.

 

You've obviously been listening in here at my house.

 

Who left the webcam on?

 

:)

 

I've learned to disconnect somewhat from the drama for these very reasons.

 

[LMV]

Our horses are stabled but turned out on pasture for part of the day depending on the time of year.  We have an indoor arena where the kids can ride and it stays reasonably cool in the summer (and acceptably warm in the winter) in there so they continue with late morning or early afternoon lessons during the summer.  If they want to ride outside they do need to go closer to dawn or dusk and we often do that as a family (or at least a partial family DD1 is still a little young and DD14 really has very little interest in riding) at least a few times a week during the summer.  We do spend quite a bit on having horses for the kids (and allowing DFD10 and DD18 to compete) but we've always had stables and both DH and I grew up around horses so this was an experience we wanted to share with and provide for our children. DH and I also feel that we learned quite a bit about responsibility and work ethic from our more youthful horse experiences and we want our children to have this opportunity as well. So, we expect our children to participate (in an age/developmentally appropriate fashion) in the care and feeding of the horses that they ride.  We have often scheduled lessons at the farm in a slot that will allow us to take care of barn chores before or after their lessons.

 

In general most horses really do better with being exercised close to daily if not daily.  Because your horses are on complete turn out that does mitigate the situation a little but I still think I would work towards an every other day riding scenario. From what you have described it doesn't sound like your kids ride together, or that you ride as a family, so I'm not sure that you really need four horses.  (I might avoid dropping down only to a single horse because I do think horses need a friend but you could adjust down to two or three horses.) It also doesn't sound like any of your children are interested in competing at a high level where they really need their own horse (and even if they do, with the exception of your oldest, I would argue that they are still at the stage where their development will likely benefit from riding different horses, sharing horses, and learning how to adapt to and work with their mount to an extent) that is truly their horse that they are training. Perhaps you can use July as an experiment and see what happens and what horses get ridden when.  Plan to sell, or rehome any horses that aren't being ridden at least three times weekly over the month. This will help you identify what horses are really the best fit for the kids. If your daughter has really bonded with a specific horse then she will step up to the challenge.  If she doesn't, the horse would likely be better served with a new owner.

[jhschool]

So here's what I get from her.

 

She hates getting up early.

 

She showers in the morning, so if she rides in the evening, she has to shower again.

 

Would you actually consider getting rid of the horses?

I get the impression you might be a softie and she knows there

will be no consequence for this attitude.

 

Getting up early is not unreasonable if you want to keep your horse.

Showering twice a day is not unreasonable if you want to keep your horse.

My DS showers twice a day regardless.

Also, if it's hot, what's the big deal if you shower twice a day?

 

Here is what I think:  do not get rid of the horses.  But DO enforce

riding Monday through Friday.  Don't say :  If you don't do this, we'll

get rid of the horses.  She knows you won't do it.  So the only solution

is to make her ride the horse regardless.

 

You'll have to get her up in the morning to do it.  Set the alarm, wake her

up, and tell her to do it.  Do it every day.  Unfortunately, that's the only

thing to do with teens sometimes.

[Guest submarines]

So here's what I get from her.

 

She hates getting up early.

 

She showers in the morning, so if she rides in the evening, she has to shower again.

 

Sorry, it doesn't look like she is into horses.

 

I have a DD who hates waking up early, and because of her sleep issues she gets horrible headaches and nausea when she gets up early. Because of her sensory issues and a bit of OCD showering is also an "issue" for her--she hates showering, but can't go to bed without taking one.

 

She's into horses, however. She wakes up without complaint and plugs through her headache so she can get to the barn in the mornings. Most of the days she doesn't even get to ride--she's happy to muck out and groom other people's horses.

[MomatHWTK]

I love the idea of talking to the stable master.  I would let your friend set the standards for you (discussed with you in advance) and go from there.  Maybe she could sell the horse back to your friend and lease it? 

[Reefgazer]

Have your children interact with them, but not ride them.  Do you feel that amount of interaction would keep them from acting up (the horses, not the kids  - lol!)The Parelli method provides several "games" they can play with the horses and not ride them.

Alrighty, we are having a slight conflict here on the farm.

 

We have 4 horses that the kids ride. We also have limited acreage so that we have to limit the number of animals that are grazing on the property. For use to have horses is a sacrifice of carrying another cow. So if we didn't have horses, we'd have 4 more cows that could bring us more cash. In this year of high beef prices, we'd have made an extra 5000 if we didn't have horses.  That's not counting the money that we spend on supplies, tack repairs and feet trimming.

 

We bought the horses for the kids. Any of the kids can ride any of the horses except for one. He's a younger, spirited horse and only my oldest dd has the fire and skill to ride him. She loves him. They've bonded.

 

The problem is this. I want the horses to be ridden at least twice a week throughout the year, except for the 4 winter months. Because of the risk of slipping on ice and  mud and because of our terrain, we try to avoid riding them in winter for safety.

 

My dd says that if it's hot, she shouldn't have to ride. So, because we live in the south, when you add in winter, we'd be keeping horses to ride only 6 months of the year. That's about 50 rides. For a cost of 5000 per year. Even if we just did once a week in the summer, that still seems like a boatload of money to keep the horses.

 

My dd says that we aren't losing money because of horses, we are simply not making money that we could.

 

She says that if the horses are supposed to be fun, and riding is unpleasant in the heat, she shouldn't have to ride unless it's going to be fun. (I can sort of see her point here)

 

However, if horses aren't ridden, they don't behave as well. They need attention and crave affection. They need consistency.

 

If it were up to me, I'd sell them all, or at least the one that only my oldest can ride. I don't ride at all and have no desire to do so. However, my dd would be extremely unhappy about that.

 

So far, the conflict isn't heated. I'd like to keep it that way. Part of the problem is that my dd isn't as interested in actually doing farm stuff as much as she likes the idea of having a farm and riding horses. IOW, she wants the fun and none of the work. Well, who wouldn't, but personally, I do get a certain amount of satisfaction out of working the garden, milking, spraying trees etc. whereas those types of things bring her no joy at all.

 

Does anyone have a solution?

 

I'm considering tying her horse riding to her weekend activities. She gets annoyed if I nag her about riding, but if she isn't reminded, she never rides.

 

Ideas? Thoughts?

 

[Ottakee]

I just had another thought as I was out in the barn with my girls tonight.

 

Is she missing the SOCIAL aspect of having a horse-----meaning a friend to ride with?  a group to hang out and mess with their horses with (like 4H)?  I was thinking about this as my girls both liked riding MUCH better the night the neighbor girl came over and rode with them than when it was mom with them.

 

Even having a sibling or mom (maybe you could learn on one of the safer horses) to ride with might perk her interest more.  Another option would be a friend/other teen leasing one of your safer horses and then riding with her.

 

Can she do a variety of types of riding?  Arena riding is very boring for me but some people and horses love it.  My one daughter does a bit of jumping, has done a bit of speed, does a bit of local fun show level showing and then trail rides.  It helps keep her interested and gets in involved with other horse people for the social aspects of it.

[KungFuPanda]

yes. I understand the heat, but she's refusing to try to find a time to ride them that is workable.

 

Right now, it is 70 degrees first thing in the morning, and about 75 an hour before sunset. She *could* ride at those times.

 

But it's inconvenient for her to ride at those times, so she makes up excuses.

What if this were her routine: wake, ride, shower, breakfast

 

She can choose what time she wakes, but if she waits too long she's going to get very hungry and it'll only get hotter. Or, it can be wake, breakfast, ride, shower. She's a teen girl. This might motivate her more than breakfast :-/

[fairfarmhand]

So I am trying this.

 

Yesterday, I told her that she needs to look at her schedule (she's working 4 days this week) and think ahead of time about which days she will plan on riding. I also threw out some ideas to shake things up a little bit, like her teaching her sister to ride the beloved gelding. I told her that if the horse is unridable by anyone but her, it makes no sense to keep him after she's off at college, so if she wants him to stick around until she's in a position to take him from us, she needs to teach someone else to ride him.

 

I will start reminding her in the evenings to ride the horses. I think she gets in the mindset that "It's too hot." and doesn't consider that about an hour before sunset it really is quite nice out there. 

 

I've tried to get her to get the horses out when her friends are over but she won't bite. " It's too hot and not fun. We don't want to be tortured when we want to spend time together."

 

She's a champion at making up excuses when she doesn't want to do something.

 

I think what's happening is that she has the emotional maturity of a 13 year old when it comes to self discipline. I'll have to treat her as such for awhile now.

[KungFuPanda]

She sounds like my son and math. He spends almost as much time complaining that it exists as he does actually completing his lessons. During the actual lesson he's not nearly as unhappy as when he's anticipating it. I make him do it anyway, but it's just in his personality to voice every thought that crosses his mind. My sister says that Grumpy Cat is his spirit animal.

[Haiku]

In the ideal world....yes. However, the pp who mentioned self-centered and immature nailed it.

 

I was the person who both described your daughter's attitude as self-centered and immature AND suggested you not tie caring for the horse to privileges. Just because your dd is thinking immaturely doesn't mean you can't help her to being to think more maturely. Tying the care of the horse to privileges is, to me, a way of handling the situation with a much younger child who can't be expected to understand the situation from a different point of view. Your dd is, however, old enough to understand that caring for an animal entails personal sacrifice. 

[fairfarmhand]

I was the person who both described your daughter's attitude as self-centered and immature AND suggested you not tie caring for the horse to privileges. Just because your dd is thinking immaturely doesn't mean you can't help her to being to think more maturely. Tying the care of the horse to privileges is, to me, a way of handling the situation with a much younger child who can't be expected to understand the situation from a different point of view. Your dd is, however, old enough to understand that caring for an animal entails personal sacrifice. 

 

I get it.

 

I'm going to shoot for just caring for horses as part of our lives. If our lives include the horses on the farm for the kids, then their lives include caring for and riding the horses. Sort of making it nonnegotiable, like doing the dishes and washing clothes. The same way that we feed our dogs and cats and let out our chickens each day, we should be checking on the horses, riding them, and caring for them. Even when it's inconvenient.

 

[hillfarm]

1. You are the parents, source of income, and final decision maker. Do not wait until your dd agrees with you - that may never happen. Make your decision, stand your ground, and let the storm rage around you. You are the one in charge, not an emotional, perhaps immature teen.

 

2. The horses need proper care. Regardless of the temp. And that involves frequent riding, so she needs to comply appropriately or she will lose the privilege of having a horse available to her.

 

3. 70 - 75 degrees is not too hot. Even 80 or 85. I was a horse crazy teen and rode two or three times a day in temps like that. My horses seemed to tolerate the rides fine and loved getting hosed down with cool water after they had been walked out a bit. They often played in it like children! We had one large Shetland pony who liked to grab the hose if it was unattended and chase everyone around with it.

 

4. Don't plea bargain or bribe your dd to ride. She will only get the wrong attitude -that compliance is a currency she can use to direct your behavior. Be the authority and inform her of what you have decided is the minimum acceptable riding schedule. Maybe even do the contract thing. (I understand that the following activities are requirements of owning and properly caring for a horse. I understand that if I fail to consistently complete these activities, I am indicating my lack of interest in the horse's wellbeing and that the horse may be sold, leased, or otherwise and I will have no recourse....). And then follow through. At the very least, you are teaching her a valuable lesson about life that is better learned at home than on the job.

[poppy]

 

 

The horses need proper care. Regardless of the temp. And that involves frequent riding, so she needs to comply appropriately or she will lose the privilege of having a horse available to her.

 

This was my exact thought reading the OP. I never had a horse, but if I had a teen who refused to walk the dog when it wasn't fun -----  she would not get to walk the dog on the days it is fun.  Pets need to be cared for every day. If you won't do it, fine.  No pet.

 

In other words, tell her she has to be responsible, or the horses will be sold. No negotiation. 

[Wabi Sabi]

First and foremost, a disclaimer: I don't have teens, so take my opinion with a grain of salt if you must. 

That said, it sounds like a lot of unnecessary talk and negotiation. You try to reason with her, she argues and whines and gives a list of 19,375 reasons why x, y, or z won't work for her. You try to enlist other people's help to talk her into taking care of her responsibilities, but ultimately, it's YOU she needs to listen to.

Don't talk. Don't negotiate. Don't engage. Don't bargain or make deals. Simply tell her she needs to go take care of her horse. End of discussion. I'd treat it just like math or writing. It isn't "sort of" non-negotiable. Is IS non-negotiable, period, and while she is living under your roof, YOU are in charge.