Amira Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 We're looking at several different countries and I'm always looking for more input. I've loosely grouped them this way: The first group of countries would require a language that dh and I both love and are well-equipped to learn, pay a very good salary so we could easily finish off dh's student loans, and would allow for some amazing regional travel opportunities in a part of the world I love. They also would have some pretty major restrictions on everyday life, be in somewhat dangerous places, and generally wouldn't allow for much exploring inside the country. And I wouldn't like the weather in any of them (I hate to be hot). The second group would be in countries with languages would take some time to learn, pay well but not as much as the first group, and are totally fascinating cities on their own terms. Regional travel is possible, the cities are safe and interesting, the food is amazing, and several cities have lots of teenage expats for our boys to hang out with. Some are super hot, others have better weather. The jobs are generally the most interesting too. The third group would be in countries that require intense languages that we're not as interested in, don't pay as well, and are in cities that aren't as interesting as the second group. The weather is generally better and every single city option has many teenage expats and good church congregations for our family. For any of the countries, both dh and I would learn (or relearn) whatever language is spoken before we moved there. What would you choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SadieMarie Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I would go with the second group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 #2 definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjzimmer1 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 The second group has the most +s in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdrinca Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 #2 How long would you be staying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 #2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Agreed, #2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 #2 How long would you be staying? 2-5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticmomma Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Second group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solascriptura Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Second. Can I say this? I am so jealous. I would love the opportunity to move right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'm thinking I made the second list sound too amazing, but dh looked the post over and thinks it's pretty fair. :) We also care a lot about the church congregations, but that wouldn't matter as much to many here. And I'm really, really attracted to the idea of making those stupid student loans disappear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Second group. I'm interested in what the places are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Perhaps the way you worded #2 reveals what you really want? I know that sounds kind of woo-woo new agey, but let's roll with it. Maybe your brain knows what you're really hoping for and it came out in your words? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 In your current situation, I'd go with group 2. Those security restrictions are no fun, especially for kids who are growing up and need to not be under mom and dad's constant supervision. I'd save the group one places for when the kids are in college, or if you have a window when the older is in college and the younger is still young enough not to be as affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 In your current situation, I'd go with group 2. Those security restrictions are no fun, especially for kids who are growing up and need to not be under mom and dad's constant supervision. I'd save the group one places for when the kids are in college, or if you have a window when the older is in college and the younger is still young enough not to be as affected.Yes, the security restrictions are a concern, but several of the cities in group 1 have compounds or neighborhoods where teens are concentrated, and they have a reasonable number of teens. But yes, we would be really happy to be in a place where we could just send the older boys off with friends on the bus all over an interesting city. We were fine with them walking around Bishkek together, but that's hardly an interesting city for teenagers. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'm thinking I made the second list sound too amazing, but dh looked the post over and thinks it's pretty fair. :) We also care a lot about the church congregations, but that wouldn't matter as much to many here. And I'm really, really attracted to the idea of making those stupid student loans disappear. It would matter to me, but I would choose the second option, just based on your descriptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 We're looking at several different countries and I'm always looking for more input. I've loosely grouped them this way: The first group of countries would require a language that dh and I both love and are well-equipped to learn, pay a very good salary so we could easily finish off dh's student loans, and would allow for some amazing regional travel opportunities in a part of the world I love. They also would have some pretty major restrictions on everyday life, be in somewhat dangerous places, and generally wouldn't allow for much exploring inside the country. And I wouldn't like the weather in any of them (I hate to be hot). The second group would be in countries with languages would take some time to learn, pay well but not as much as the first group, and are totally fascinating cities on their own terms. Regional travel is possible, the cities are safe and interesting, the food is amazing, and several cities have lots of teenage expats for our boys to hang out with. Some are super hot, others have better weather. The jobs are generally the most interesting too. The third group would be in countries that require intense languages that we're not as interested in, don't pay as well, and are in cities that aren't as interesting as the second group. The weather is generally better and every single city option has many teenage expats and good church congregations for our family. For any of the countries, both dh and I would learn (or relearn) whatever language is spoken before we moved there. What would you choose? Amira, can I just say, first, that you are among my heroes? I've enjoyed your blog for years, and so admire your intrepid-ness and enthusiasm and curiosity, about life, meeting diverse people, plunging into weird experiences, other cultures' cooking... and, particularly, learning new, and difficult, languages. Truly, you're a role model. So, with that... if you and your husband are particularly drawn to the language and the region of Group 1, I'd weigh that pretty heavily. And it sounds like you'd appreciate the financial cushion. Weather - pish; you've experienced it all, already; and you all are sufficiently worldly that I'm sure you could navigate travel restrictions and still be able to enjoy your experience. The only factor that would tip me into Group 2 would be the ability of your older boys to have a community. (Kids are adaptable, and in general I believe parents are best able to weigh the pros and cons of various family circumstances... but in our family at least, teens get a bit more standing... ymmv) Your account doesn't make Group 3 sound very attractive... but I guess you already knew that! Good luck with your decision. I'm sure that whatever you decide, you will make it work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggieamy Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Another vote for #2. I suspect those student loans will be gone pretty fast anyway with a pay increase and motivation to be done with them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 #2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I vote #2 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Since it's a short-term move, I'd go with #1. Have those adventures while you're up for them! If the tour was longer, I'd go with #2 for the stability. I don't know why #3 is on the list. It seems easiest to eliminate. Disclaimer: heat doesn't bother me. I'd be eliminating cold climates. I'm a little emotionally scarred from our harsh winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Option 2. The safety for travel would be important to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 The #3 group still has very interesting cities and every single one would be great for our teens, both at church and everywhere else. They're very popular expat cities. The languages are my biggest hangup. I just cannot convince myself to learn another intense language when we've already done a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Amira, can I just say, first, that you are among my heroes? I've enjoyed your blog for years, and so admire your intrepid-ness and enthusiasm and curiosity, about life, meeting diverse people, plunging into weird experiences, other cultures' cooking... and, particularly, learning new, and difficult, languages. Truly, you're a role model. So, with that... if you and your husband are particularly drawn to the language and the region of Group 1, I'd weigh that pretty heavily. And it sounds like you'd appreciate the financial cushion. Weather - pish; you've experienced it all, already; and you all are sufficiently worldly that I'm sure you could navigate travel restrictions and still be able to enjoy your experience. The only factor that would tip me into Group 2 would be the ability of your older boys to have a community. (Kids are adaptable, and in general I believe parents are best able to weigh the pros and cons of various family circumstances... but in our family at least, teens get a bit more standing... ymmv) Your account doesn't make Group 3 sound very attractive... but I guess you already knew that! Good luck with your decision. I'm sure that whatever you decide, you will make it work! Pam, thank you. I love the region that the first group of countries are in. The option for regional travel is huge for me, and our older boys would have a good community in at least one or two of the cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Yes, the security restrictions are a concern, but several of the cities in group 1 have compounds or neighborhoods where teens are concentrated, and they have a reasonable number of teens. But yes, we would be really happy to be in a place where we could just send the older boys off with friends on the bus all over an interesting city. We were fine with them walking around Bishkek together, but that's hardly an interesting city for teenagers. :) If the situation is such that there could be some independence/freedom for your older boys without causing too much concern for you, I'd be more likely to consider those locations--especially since you obviously have a love of the language and the people who speak it, and you seem pretty eager to go to that area. But, really, group 2 options sound great too. I'd probably look at them on a location-by-location basis and consider the specific tradeoffs of each city ... which I assume you're doing but grouping them for public consumption at this point :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 We still have some time to work on this, but our top choices (from all the groups) are Dhahran, Cairo, Istanbul, Tel Aviv, Rome, Taipei, and Tokyo. I don't know anything about Dhahran. You know my thoughts on Cairo--I'd love to go back, but I wouldn't do it at this time, and not just for the security reasons (though I guess my reasons are due to effects of the security concerns, so I guess it is because of that). I would LOVE to go to Istanbul, Tel Aviv, or Rome, though I'd probably do some research on security issues in Tel Aviv before committing to that--but I'm sure I'd decide it was cool enough to go anyway :) . Taipei and Tokyo wold be very interesting, but ... after one tour in that part of the world, all I can think of is the flights to and from the US ... maybe Tokyo would be enough to make me consider it, but honestly, I want a few more years off from those flights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I vote for Rome or Istanbul. They seem the most different/far away from where you've been already and my thought was on new experiences. I would have put Tokyo and Taipei in there, but I had a feeling that the languages put them in group three. ETA although I suspect the cities like Cairo and Tel Aviv might be in your first group, I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with them at this point. I don't really know anything about Dhahran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Have never been to Dhahran, but in a prior lifetime, I knew a number of expats who lived there and made it work quite well, though their lives were extremely expat-insular (not due to security issues, just a wide cultural divide), which I know isn't your family's usual style... Cairo is fabulous. One of the world's great cities. Sadly, this is a rough time for it. I'd love to try Istanbul!!! Sigh.... I think you'd really enjoy Tel Aviv. You've been in Jerusalem before, if I recall? (They're really different. But really close!) My brother-in-law and his family lived in Israel for two years recently; they were comfortable letting their tweens wander on their own in/around their neighborhood. I think the weather is mitigate by the proximity to the beach, too. And Rome... sigh... Tokyo is really fun to visit. Not sure I'd want to live there, although the chance to roam around the rest of Japan would be great. You don't need Japanese to navigate, though obviously it deepens your experience if you have it. (We don't speak any, and have wandered by both train and rented car without problems. Our last visit we were with my brother, who does speak it; and that was even more fun.) Taipei is one of not-many places that I've visited that just didn't do it for me. But it was a long time ago; both it and I have surely changed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrittanyM Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Tel Aviv was very nice when I was there 6 years ago, it felt very safe to me. More so than Cairo, although I loved it and I would seriously consider going back someday. There is so much history in Egypt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 I've always said that I want to go back to Cairo with my kids (we were there pre-kids) because it has been such a wonderful place for families for a long time. But now, not so much. We've talked to a variety of expats there right now with kids and without and have gotten very mixed reviews. Some love it, and I'm inclined to think we're the type who would still, but others have had a really rough time there. I just love Cairo though. I could find a new mosque every day and never, ever get tired of it, not to mention all the other fascinating history there. We have several friends in Dhahran and just over the border in Manama, and also quite a few American and Arab friends in the Gulf which help make Dhahran a good choice. It would be a pretty expat-oriented life though, which my older boys would prefer, but not dh and I. We minored in Arabic 20 years ago too which would make the language more easily refreshed. And we could travel to Istanbul, Cairo, Jerusalem, Jordan, the Gulf, and even SE Asia where dh's sister lives. And who could pass up a chance to go to Istanbul and Rome? Not to mention that the jobs available there are the best. It would be easy for us to learn Turkish with our background in other Turkish languages, and Italian is a lot easier than Chinese or Japanese. I have to admit my main attraction with Tel Aviv is that it's close to Jerusalem. It might not be as good for the boys as Taipei and Tokyo. Everyone says Taipei is a very livable city, especially for older teens. That's a big thing. Tokyo would be good for them too. The oldest in particular has had a hard time here in Mexico (it's made him look back fondly on Kyrgyzstan), and we'd really like both boys to have a good, final expat experience since both will graduate while we're living in the next place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Mostly though, it's just nice to talk this through with you all. Thank you. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 My cousin was living in Cairo quite happily until the revolution. They were evacuated and couldn't wait to get back. They did go back, but didn't stay for long because they really just didn't feel safe anymore, even living a quite insular existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shukriyya Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 My first choice would be Istanbul followed by Rome. Cairo would be fascinating...at another time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 My first choice would be Istanbul followed by Rome. Cairo would be fascinating...at another time. Yeah, on reflection... when I net out everything you've said.... what shukriyya said! :laugh: And maybe third, given the adults' Arabic and the boys' comfort with an expat-insular experience, Dhahran. (Fascinating thought experiment, by the way. Off to tripadvisor to indulge my own wanderlust dreams...) ETA to correct garbled word order! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Taipei is meant to be a really fun place these days: I lived there a long time ago when it was very congested and smoggy, but they have worked hard on public transport and I hear it's great. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I only know about Cairo and Istanbul. We lived in Cairo for about a year pre-kids, and have visited Istanbul a few times. A year in Cairo back in the day was fascinating, but I would not want to live there for 3-5 years now with my kids, especially if I had girls. I loved Istanbul too but can't speak for how it would be long-term. It's always so different whether you approach a city as a tourist or as a resident. I haven't been to the other cities. I think I would want to live in a city where my kids, as they got to be older (teens?) would be safe going out on their own. That would be a priority for me. If the only safe option is to live within the ex-pat community, then I don't think I would choose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Sounds like you easily learn languages. Option 2 sounds like a good middle of the road path. Mostly because of increased safety and good job prospects combined with travel opportunities. You mentioned Cairo in one of your posts. My mother is disappointed that she feel she cannot travel as freely to Egypt anymore because of the recent political changes. But situations can change again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinaPagnato Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 # 2 for sure. Good friends just returned to the States from Cairo, and while it has been an interesting 3 years, the amount of unrest and instability was very difficult to contend with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 The second group, for sure. Your teens need friends. Sounds like first group will not pay enough to cover the pain of being there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 You know, Rome's temple is opening up soon.....I'd give that a fair amount of weight....but group 2 based on your descriptions. Pm me if you need more info on Dhahran... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Those weren't places I was expecting to be on your list! (I was kinda hoping you'd come over here. Ha!) What's healthcare like in these places — not just quality but also accessibility? After having lived in a place with such unreliable healthcare for so long, that would be high on my list of priorities as well. The list includes many places I would never move to, and some I would love to live in. It sounds exciting anyway. Your country was an option up till yesterday. It sounded lovely. :) I'm not too fussed about healthcare since dh's employer helps with it, and I can get medevac insurance if necessary. And except for Cairo, they all have decent healthcare anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 You know, Rome's temple is opening up soon.....I'd give that a fair amount of weight....but group 2 based on your descriptions. Pm me if you need more info on Dhahran... The temple in Rome is a very good thing. We live about 5 km from one now and it's been lovely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I vote Rome. Then you have acess to all the other countries in the area. Italian might be easy to pick up if you have Spanish down a bit. The opportunities for travel and live history study is immense. Other than that, I have always wanted to visit Japan. It sounds fascinating. I would not choose anywhere with restrictions or political unrest especially with teens/children. Just me, though. Let us know what you decide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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