Homeschool teen kicked out of local prom because the male chaperones found her too sexy

[Word Nerd]

I can't feel too horrible for the few men falsely accused when there are millions of women actually raped. 

 

You can't find both deplorable?

[LucyStoner]

You can't find both deplorable?

Both are bad. But having been raped as a child I can say that being raped and living with that is much more serious than what happens to most people wrongfully accused. Most people RIGHTFULLY accused pay few, if any consequences. The magnitude of the problems is also way different. I can't say that I know a single person whose "life has been ruined" by a false allegation whereas I can't even alphabetize a list of all the sexual assault survivors I know in any sort of speedy fashion.

[unsinkable]

 

 

I can't feel too horrible for the few men falsely accused when there are millions of women actually raped. Of course there are also men and boys raped and they are just beginning to come out of the shadows and break the chains of secrecy and shame.

I feel horrible for all victims of crime, women, men, children, no matter the crime or how many are in the category.

[Denise in Florida]

For me the focus wasn't on the Dads at the dance at all.  If anything in my experience it is even more likely that Mrs. D put the focus on the Dads to give herself more authority, which is often found in a patriarch system as well.   Complete guessing on my part but she probably had a problem with Clare, either from that night or previously and didn't have the ovaries to take responsibility, so instead she went to the real authority in her mind, the men, for opinions or didn't and just used them as an excuse.  Either way telling Clare that the fathers had a problem got the whole thing rolling and put the target on their backs.  It also led to Clare and her friends in hindsight thinking about the men judging them sexually.   In my experience when a young girl is being provocative most men are embarrassed, nervous, and try to get the heck out of the situation.  Not escalate it by calling attention to the fact.     

 

 

Yes, Mrs D brought the 'dad's opinions' into the discussion.  

 

This would then get Clare and friends in an uproar over being judged.  

 

My first thought was that Mrs D either has limited experience with teen girls in groups or she is accustomed to the behavior of a small subset of teen girls (possibly at her church).  I of course do not know Mrs D. so this is supposition.

 

Pretty much the entire way she handled it would have had my dd raring for a fight. My dd does obey rules that are presented clearly and explained, (she's a great kid and I like her the way she is ) but at that age a subjective judgement of 'provocative dancing' would have received a 'whatever'. :001_rolleyes:   This would then get authoritative adults in an uproar and escalate from there. :banghead:   Really, are they familiar with teens at all. 

[Denise in Florida]

Or they can attend the many "Don't.get raped" lectures and substitute accused every time they hear raped.  The same rules apply.  Don't be alone with a girl, don't be provocative, don't drink, have a buddy, and so on.  Overall take responsibility for not getting falsely accused the same way young women are told to take responsibility for not getting raped.  Fair.....nope.  But ironic.....yes.

 

 

:hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:   Yep...nope not fair...about there has been little about the 'don't get raped' attitude that has been fair to date. 

[Denise in Florida]

It also is part of the problem.  We are discussing whether she deserved what she got in a way similar to the way people used to decide if a woman was raped based on what she was wearing.   

 

She thought she looked hot

She was belligerent

She used the F word

Her family isn't part of the religious part of the organization

She had an attitude

 

 

Okay I have 'liked' and commented on three of your posts in a row. You might be my new best friend.  :seeya:

[bettyandbob]

 

 

I can't feel too horrible for the few men falsely accused when there are millions of women actually raped.  

 

I'm sorry a false accusation has serious devastating effects. I've seen it. The false accusation never goes away, even when proven false. People who are falsely accused are victims and often never recover.

 

Both circumstances rape and false accusations have horrible long lasting effects.

 

What happened to you as a child was devastating too.

 

[Denise in Florida]

You can't find both deplorable?

 

I think she does.  

 

I'm not her but I think she is saying that we need to keep an atmosphere where women (and men) can come forward and say they were raped and ask for justice. While the false accusations are deplorable they are not a reason to force victims back into silence.  Again those are my words not hers. 

[In2why]

You can't find both deplorable?

 

 

Of course I can as I thought I made clear when I wrote of my friends story.  Even more so because I believe that false allegations make it harder for true cases.  Which I also wrote.   But again what is the solution? Do we force the burden of proof to be on the victim again?  Do we look at every situation with doubt?  If a case isn't air tight do we criminalize the accusation?  I am not sure what the purpose is or was to bring false accusations into the equation unless it is to put that on the same level as being sexually assaulted, and it isn't.  It just isn't.  And the person that prompted this discussion wasn't even putting it out there just on the same level.  If I remember correctly she mentioned it was a greater fear for her?.   That we might fear more for our son's being falsely accused then our daughters being sexually abused?  Really?  Isn't that just another way to shut women up?  Calling them possible whores didn't work so now we paint them as liars.  Maybe I am wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, but that is what it feels like to me.  

[FaithManor]

In2Why, I agree that this too was my perception of what she was stating about her fears as it pertained to college for her sons...that they were more likely to be accused falsely than her daughters were to be assaulted. Statistically, that one is just out in left field. I also felt that she was elevating the two to the same level and when that natural conclusion plays out, it's not pretty. I hope I'm wrong, but that is exactly the impression that I got as well.

 

I would have liked your post but I flirted my likes out again. I'm really a very, very naughty girl this week!

[Aelwydd]

In2Why, I agree that this too was my perception of what she was stating about her fears as it pertained to college for her sons...that they were more likely to be accused falsely than her daughters were to be assaulted. Statistically, that one is just out in left field. I also felt that she was elevating the two to the same level and when that natural conclusion plays out, it's not pretty. I hope I'm wrong, but that is exactly the impression that I got as well.

 

I would have liked your post but I flirted my likes out again. I'm really a very, very naughty girl this week!

 

Well, what do you expect, when you hang out with those kinds of women?  Nasty girls, all of you. 

 

I'm saving my likes for that one special poster, and only that one poster.  I just don't give it up like the loose posters.  You can totally tell who's the "good" posters from the bad ones by the avatars they put on.

 

That's why I'm not liking your post, Faith.  It's totally not because I'm out of likes.  Because I'm not.  At all. 

[FaithManor]

Aelwydd, I really, really like you and generally agree with you an awful lot so I'm ashamed to be one those loose posters that you can't bring yourself to like anymore! :blushing:  :blush:  :blush5:  :biggrinjester:

[MFG]

Well, what do you expect, when you hang out with those kinds of women? Nasty girls, all of you.

 

I'm saving my likes for that one special poster, and only that one poster. I just don't give it up like the loose posters. You can totally tell who's the "good" posters from the bad ones by the avatars they put on.

 

That's why I'm not liking your post, Faith. It's totally not because I'm out of likes. Because I'm not. At all.

That's right. If you give away your pieces of like, soon they will all be gone. None, absolutely none, for the one special poster. And in the real world you can never get them back. You might be excused and accepted anyway, but it is still not the same. [/sarcasm]

[Kathryn]

That's right. If you give away your pieces of like, soon they will all be gone. None, absolutely none, for the one special poster. And in the real world you can never get them back. You might be excused and accepted anyway, but it is still not the same. [/sarcasm]

Luckily, here at WTM, you get a chance to be "born again" every day!

[Aelwydd]

That's right. If you give away your pieces of like, soon they will all be gone. None, absolutely none, for the one special poster. And in the real world you can never get them back. You might be excused and accepted anyway, but it is still not the same. [/sarcasm]

 

 

You know, I even feel different after I've liked a poster.  I mean, what if Jesus saw me liking Faith's post?

 

He'd probably get pretty huffy, and write something cryptic on the ground, like "Smoke Camels."

[FaithManor]

You know, I even feel different after I've liked a poster.  I mean, what if Jesus saw me liking Faith's post?

 

He'd probably get pretty huffy, and write something cryptic on the ground, like "Smoke Camels."

Oh my goodness!!! I just spewed popcorn across my computer screen!

[Mom in High Heels]

Luckily, here at WTM, you get a chance to be "born again" every day!

 

This is a win!  

[Reefgazer]

Your story is awful (that of both you and your friend), and I am sorry you had to go through that; I cannot imagine.

 

To the bolded:  That is how the US legal system works; the burden of proof is on the accuser, not on the accused.  The allegations have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and for good reason.  False accusations are not on the same level as being sexually assaulted, but the havoc they wreak on a man's life can be, IMO.  I will not support "solutions" that potentially allow my DS or DH to be sacrificed as "payment" for all the women raped by others; I will not support "solutions" that ask my DH or DS to pay for other men's crimes.

 

I don't think solutions to this problem are going to come via the law, but through each individual family standing up and teaching their sons civil sexual behavior, that no means no, and that a lack of no requires more careful consideration.  I also think that referring to drunken sex where both parties consent as "rape" (I've heard this as a definition, which I think is nonsense) is trivializing the real thing and gets in the way of having a rational discussion about the topic.

Of course I can as I thought I made clear when I wrote of my friends story.  Even more so because I believe that false allegations make it harder for true cases.  Which I also wrote.   But again what is the solution? Do we force the burden of proof to be on the victim again?  Do we look at every situation with doubt?  If a case isn't air tight do we criminalize the accusation?  I am not sure what the purpose is or was to bring false accusations into the equation unless it is to put that on the same level as being sexually assaulted, and it isn't.  It just isn't.  And the person that prompted this discussion wasn't even putting it out there just on the same level.  If I remember correctly she mentioned it was a greater fear for her?.   That we might fear more for our son's being falsely accused then our daughters being sexually abused?  Really?  Isn't that just another way to shut women up?  Calling them possible whores didn't work so now we paint them as liars.  Maybe I am wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, but that is what it feels like to me.  

 

[Joanne]

That's right. If you give away your pieces of like, soon they will all be gone. None, absolutely none, for the one special poster. And in the real world you can never get them back. You might be excused and accepted anyway, but it is still not the same. [/sarcasm]

 

I get it; You don't want a licked cupcake post.

[Joanne]

Your story is awful (that of both you and your friend), and I am sorry you had to go through that; I cannot imagine.

 

To the bolded:  That is how the US legal system works; the burden of proof is on the accuser, not on the accused.  The allegations have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and for good reason.  False accusations are not on the same level as being sexually assaulted, but the havoc they wreak on a man's life can be, IMO.  I will not support "solutions" that potentially allow my DS or DH to be sacrificed as "payment" for all the women raped by others; I will not support "solutions" that ask my DH or DS to pay for other men's crimes.

 

I don't think solutions to this problem are going to come via the law, but through each individual family standing up and teaching their sons civil sexual behavior, that no means no, and that a lack of no requires more careful consideration.  I also think that referring to drunken sex where both parties consent as "rape" (I've heard this as a definition, which I think is nonsense) is trivializing the real thing and gets in the way of having a rational discussion about the topic.

 

It's also not consent. It's a tragedy that more people are not explicitly taught this, but 2 inebriated people don't make a valid consent.

 

[FaithManor]

I get it; You don't want a licked cupcake post.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Reefgazer]

Then my 2 kids are products of rape if they were conceived while drunk?  Nope, no buying it, sorry.  That statement trivializes rape and is part of the problem.

It's also not consent. It's a tragedy that more people are not explicitly taught this, but 2 inebriated people don't make a valid consent.
 

 

[Joanne]

Then my 2 kids are products of rape if they were conceived while drunk?  Nope, no buying it, sorry.  That statement trivializes rape and is part of the problem.

 

I didn't say that. I said 2 inebriated people can't give consent.

[MeghanL]

I didn't say that. I said 2 inebriated people can't give consent.

 

Then could they each charge the other with rape? 

I'm seriously asking this question. I have no idea how the legal ramifications would play out. 

[Reefgazer]

Consent or no due to drunkenness, sex while drunk does not always ends in rape, even if it complicates the reading of sexual signals and messages.  That is all I maintain. 

 

Edited for clarity.

I didn't say that. I said 2 inebriated people can't give consent.

 

[Joanne]

Then could they each charge the other with rape? 

I'm seriously asking this question. I have no idea how the legal ramifications would play out. 

 

Which is one reason sex while drunk should be avoided - especially for people causally dating.

 

I remember being shocked to learn (and I was very much an adult) that having sex with a drunk person, even if consent is "given" is not consent. Having HAD drunk sex, I never thought of it in those terms.

[MeghanL]

Boys need to know that if their partner is drunk, they can't give consent and legal ramifications are possible. Teach them that the caring thing to do with a drunk or drugged partner is to look after them till they are sober. Not to 'get lucky'.

 

The situation being discussed is if both parties are drunk.

It seems that we are starting to come into a double standard where the male should be seen as at fault even if they are both engaging in the same behaviors. 

[Joanne]

The situation being discussed is if both parties are drunk.

It seems that we are starting to come into a double standard where the male should be seen as at fault even if they are both engaging in the same behaviors. 

 

 

I never said a word about the genders of the persons.

[Reefgazer]

Can the reverse also be true?  Can a woman be charged with sexual assault if her date is drunk?  I don't know the answer to this.

Boys need to know that if their partner is drunk, they can't give consent and legal ramifications are possible. Teach them that the caring thing to do with a drunk or drugged partner is to look after them till they are sober. Not to 'get lucky'. Behaving in this way protects both parties.

 

[Reefgazer]

DP

[In2why]

Your story is awful (that of both you and your friend), and I am sorry you had to go through that; I cannot imagine.

 

To the bolded:  That is how the US legal system works; the burden of proof is on the accuser, not on the accused.  The allegations have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and for good reason.  False accusations are not on the same level as being sexually assaulted, but the havoc they wreak on a man's life can be, IMO.  I will not support "solutions" that potentially allow my DS or DH to be sacrificed as "payment" for all the women raped by others; I will not support "solutions" that ask my DH or DS to pay for other men's crimes.

 

I don't think solutions to this problem are going to come via the law, but through each individual family standing up and teaching their sons civil sexual behavior, that no means no, and that a lack of no requires more careful consideration.  I also think that referring to drunken sex where both parties consent as "rape" (I've heard this as a definition, which I think is nonsense) is trivializing the real thing and gets in the way of having a rational discussion about the topic.

I completely agree with you.  No man should be found guilty in a court of law based on an accusation.  But there is a huge difference between being falsely accused and falsely convicted.   Both are completely wrong.  If I gave an impression that I thought otherwise I apologize to you and everyone else.  I also totally agree that it begins in every family.  I do not agree that drunken sex is consensual.  It isn't fair to young men, but it is a burden they will have to pay attention to.   I have 2 adult sons and 1 that is 15 and one that is 10.  For my older boys if I called them today and asked them to tell me the 3 rules about sex, all of them would say the exact same thing because we stressed it so much.

 

1.  No means No, maybe means No, and yes means are you absolute sure.

2.  Birth control is your responsibility. You do NOT rely on another person to decide when you become a father. (We also had numerous discussions that BC is never 100%)

3. Don't tell a girl you love her to get sex and respect her afterwards.   

 

Short and to the point so it would stick, but we had ongoing in depth conversations about sex and relationships.  They openly discussed things with me and I with them.  They were not Virgins when they married and although I would have preferred they were old enough that they didn't live under my roof, that was not our reality.   I live in the real world, not the world I wish I lived in.  We have talked about things that put you at a higher chance of being raped with our daughter and we have talked about being at a party where people are drinking and what they would or could do if someone was about to take advantage of a young lady.  We didn't pretend they would automatically have courage and strength to stop it, but other ways to head it off before it got to that point or what they could do if it did.  We discussed shared and lessened responsibility and how it is easier to do things in a group where if one person was doing the wrong thing it might feel like you are less guilty but aren't.  We discussed a young woman who offered boys oral sex on their birthday and why she might feel compelled to do so and their reactions.  We discussed how some girls use sex to get love and some boys use love to get sex.   But we never had a conversation that some girls were bad or slutty because of what they wore.  A favorite thing we did from the time they were small was ask them what made a certain girl or boy their favorite if they expressed that she or he was special.  We didn't patronize or belittle their feelings and it helped them see the whole person.  One of my favorite memories was my 17 year old explaining how the curve of a young woman's neck gave him butterflies, but since she didn't ever read a newspaper he couldn't see dating her.   I should also admit that when they became sexually active I gave them a book on how to make love to a woman.  I explained that if they were going to be sexually active they should know what they were doing and neither their Dad nor I were comfortable enough to have THAT discussion.   Now one is married to a wonderful, intelligent beautiful woman, and the other is engaged to another.   Both of them have told me what wonderful men we have raised.  Did we do everything right.....heck no, we got lucky most of the time and still have 2 more young men to raise.  But I don't plan on changing much.  My daughter feels comfortable in her womanhood and with her sexuality and at times we had a double standard.  I was equally open but a lot less comfortable and because of my experience as a child a lot more protective.  It was often messy, often uncomfortable, but hopefully never shaming or hypocritical.  

[KidsHappen]

If we want to be that literal, I wonder if 2 seconds can be considered a dance.

 

:iagree:Can you even bust a single dance move in 2 seconds? What does two seconds of dancing look like? And what exactly could she have done in two seconds worth of dancing that was so provocative that it required her to leave? 

 

I in no way found the first and second statements regarding dancing to be incongruous at all. As a matter of fact, I do not see where she said two totally different things or contradicted herself in the two different statements.  :confused1:

[In2why]

Can the reverse also be true?  Can a woman be charged with sexual assault if her date is drunk?  I don't know the answer to this.

 

Yes, she can but that is almost never reported.  I recently read an article involving just that and the young man did not even consider it rape at the time.  He was unconscious and didn't even know the person involved.  

[Rebel Yell]

That's right. If you give away your pieces of like, soon they will all be gone. None, absolutely none, for the one special poster. And in the real world you can never get them back. You might be excused and accepted anyway, but it is still not the same. [/sarcasm]

 

Maybe we need purity rings to remind us to save our "likes" for that one special post...

 

"True LIKES Wait" :leaving:

 

Or you could just ask your husband if it's OK to like her post. :glare: Or your Dad or Uncle, or a son over age 13 if you have one. Assuming of course that your Pastor approves. :ack2:

 

[FaithManor]

Maybe we need purity rings to remind us to save our "likes" for that one special post...

 

"True LIKES Wait" :leaving:

 

Or you could just ask your husband if it's OK to like her post. :glare: Or your Dad or Uncle, or a son over age 13 if you have one. Assuming of course that your Pastor approves. :ack2:

 

I just snorted lemonade all over my tablet and now the screen is sticky! AWESOME!!!!!

[MFG]

I think we should have a "likes" ball where we pledge our likes to our Daddies.

[Rebel Yell]

I think we should have a "likes" ball where we pledge our likes to our Daddies.

 

:ack2:

[FaithManor]

I think we should have a "likes" ball where we pledge our likes to our Daddies.

 

OH MY GOSH! I AM DYING HERE OVER THIS ONE AND MY 17 YEAR OLD WANTS TO KNOW, "WHAT'S SO FUNNY?"

 

Hysterical!

[Slartibartfast]

I don't think I have ever liked one of dh's facebook posts. I am bound for perdition.

[Rebel Yell]

snipped

 

 

There may have been some types of moves that many would NOT have wanted to see in that set of circumstances. That's fine. Make whatever rules you want. But, make them BEFORE everyone buys a ticket, clearly spell out the expectations, and then also elucidate how violations will be handled. Saves a lot of crazy later on. I bet they've lived and learned from this one.

 

snipped

 

The single biggest issue, beside the total over obsession with sex and impure thoughts and blah, blah, blah, is that the organizers very likely had quite conservative expectations which number one means, YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HOST ANYTHING CALLED PROM, and 2. their expectations were in their heads and not on paper. You have to be honest about this stuff. Spell.it.out. or take the consequences when it goes down differently than you imagined in your head.

snipped

 

You know what kind makes my brain go mental? That people are so darn unobservant. How can people so freaking worried about modesty and fully prepared to judge people on perceived sexual motivations - ie. those that decided on the dress code - NOT have figured out before they created that dress code that people come in all shapes and sizes, that some people have long arms and so the dress would be longer, and some would have short arms and the dress would be "too short", and that some people have almost no arms and the dress would be nothing more than a nice shirt? Really, I just don't get it. If the sight of underwear is going to do you in, then it seems insane that this was the standard. Did they not notice that some people have butts and thus dresses and skirt will ride up? Did they not notice that some people have no butts and wouldn't be able to get a dress to ride up even if they wanted it to show off their cheekies? My husband has no butt. Gravity is unkind. He can hardly keep a pair of pants up even with a belt. How can people so worried about appearances NOT have noticed other body types??? Did they also wander hassling the boys if their shirts came untucked while they danced lest they bend over in the dance and their underwear band showed? I'm just wondering here.

 

I mean, I am really struggling to wrap my brain around this conundrum because it's beginning to feel like an existential question! ;)

:hurray: :hurray:

 

Two of my daughter wear the same size clothes. They are also completely opposite in build, so what looks good on one almost always looks horrible on the other. The cute mid-thigh-lengh skirt on one is the "Skelt" (skirt that looks more like a belt) on the longer-legged sister.  The cute fitted v-neck on one would be obscene by even relaxed standards of modesty on the other.

[Rebel Yell]

Yes, Mrs D brought the 'dad's opinions' into the discussion.  

 

This would then get Clare and friends in an uproar over being judged.  

 

My first thought was that Mrs D either has limited experience with teen girls in groups or she is accustomed to the behavior of a small subset of teen girls (possibly at her church).  I of course do not know Mrs D. so this is supposition.

 

Pretty much the entire way she handled it would have had my dd raring for a fight. My dd does obey rules that are presented clearly and explained, (she's a great kid and I like her the way she is ) but at that age a subjective judgement of 'provocative dancing' would have received a 'whatever'. :001_rolleyes:   This would then get authoritative adults in an uproar and escalate from there. :banghead:   Really, are they familiar with teens at all. 

 

Same with my daughter. Being clearly within the stated dress code (even if it was perhaps at the very edge of it) and being inspected and told that it was not OK, even if it was 'legal' would likely have caused a similar reaction- and this is my compliant child. She just has zero patience for idiocy.

[myfunnybunch]

Boys need to know that if their partner is drunk, they can't give consent and legal ramifications are possible. Teach them that the caring thing to do with a drunk or drugged partner is to look after them till they are sober. Not to 'get lucky'. Behaving in this way protects both parties.

Girls need to know this also. If both parties are inebriated and neither can legally consent, we cannot blame only one party. This is another way our current cultural outlook is flawed. A young man may very well feel violated if drunk and a young woman takes advantage of his inability to give clear consent, but he may also feel unable to speak up because we (cultural, general we) see him as "lucky." What kind of man complains about "getting lucky"?

 

Cat

[eternalsummer]

Well, the idea is that if there are two people, and one is super drunk, and they have sex, it shouldn't matter what gender they are - either the sober one is assaulting/raping the drunk one, or they are both just having an unfortunate encounter.  

 

The idea that it is only rape if the woman is drunk and the man is sober (or if the woman is drunk and the man is drunk!) is kind of strange to me.

 

 

 

[PrairieSong]

Yes, she can but that is almost never reported. I recently read an article involving just that and the young man did not even consider it rape at the time. He was unconscious and didn't even know the person involved.

He was unconscious??? I'm curious...how does that work? If he is unconscious does everything...work?

[myfunnybunch]

Oh, c'mon. Let's not pretend there are too many men being raped by women.

 

Girls, women, boys and men are overwhelmingly at risk of rape from MEN.

 

All this false equivalence stuff is nonsense. And I say that as the mother of a boy.

 

Does the number matter? One is too many.

Is it less significant, or less traumatic to the victim if he is male and the perpetrator female?

 

The idea that a man cannot be raped, or taken advantage of sexually, simply because he is male is not pretense or false equivalence, even if it is statistically far less common. To minimize it as pretense because it is less common or characterize it as getting lucky is just as bad as telling a girl she was "asking for it" because she was (insert slut shaming blame here).

 

I say this not only as a mother of boys, but as a friend to someone to whom this happened while we were all in college. A girl deliberately (by her own admission) took advantage of his drunkenness to have sex with him in hopes that he'd fall in love with her. It was traumatic and awful for him, not least because of the people who blamed him (even though he was drunk and she was sober) and couldn't understand why he was "complaining," because, after all, he'd gotten lucky with a pretty girl. For reference sake, a young woman we also worked with had a similar incident while at a party, and people were outraged. Both the young man victim and the young woman victim got to deal with plenty of victim blaming, which was no less awful for the young man than for the young woman.

 

My point, anyway, still stands, no matter the number, large or small:

We should be teaching our boys and our girls that no means no, that drunkenness means that the partner cannot consent (along with both the legal and moral ramifications that might bring), and teach them the proper, caring thing to do with a drunk or drugged person. Behaving in this way protects everyone, and girls certainly won't be harmed by learning it.

 

Cat

[Sara R]

Oh, c'mon. Let's not pretend there are too many men being raped by women.

 

Girls, women, boys and men are overwhelmingly at risk of rape from MEN.

 

All this false equivalence stuff is nonsense. And I say that as the mother of a boy.

 

A couple of months ago there was an AskReddit on this topic here, also here (NSFW, and this is Reddit so the people aren't as classy as we are here, but still the stories are enlightening). Those abused by women were often drunk or asleep at the time. Often no one takes the complaints seriously or it goes unreported because the man doesn't want the stigma of being too weak to fight it off or the "stigma" of not wanting the sex.

[Wildcat]

OH MY GOSH! I AM DYING HERE OVER THIS ONE AND MY 17 YEAR OLD WANTS TO KNOW, "WHAT'S SO FUNNY?"

 

Hysterical!

 

This is how I felt yesterday! I think  my ds is afraid to ask what we all do here on the forums..... :lol:

[In2why]

He was unconscious??? I'm curious...how does that work? If he is unconscious does everything...work?

 

 

Yes. There is stimulation and then there is arousal.  Totally different things and important to know because some males do not report a rape, even by males because they are filled with shame that they had an erection even though they hated what was happening to them.  They mistakenly believe that must mean they liked it or might be gay and that others will think so too.  It is another way perverts control their victims, especially young ones.  

[Wheres Toto]

What do y'all think about the idea that the Purity culture is more likely to lead to false accusations of rape. As in, girl gets caught up in the moment, has sex, then out of shame, fear of parents reactions, says it was rape?

 

Wasn't there a recent case where a girl had her boyfriend in her room but when caught said she didn't know him and her father ended up shooting the boyfriend?

[FaithManor]

What do y'all think about the idea that the Purity culture is more likely to lead to false accusations of rape. As in, girl gets caught up in the moment, has sex, then out of shame, fear of parents reactions, says it was rape?

 

Wasn't there a recent case where a girl had her boyfriend in her room but when caught said she didn't know him and her father ended up shooting the boyfriend?

Yes, there was recently this particular tragedy.

 

I know of two women who had consensual sex, became pregnant, knew their parents were going to be very unkind, so claimed rape. But, they did not point the finger at their dates and claimed stranger rape. The parents never questioned. Since they were part of religious communities that were very cruel to unwed mothers but also boistrously anti abortion, they were sent away to relatives out of state and coerced into giving babies they wanted to keep up for adoption. I suspect that despite the parents' anti abortion beliefs, that had they not been able to find relatives to house their daughters - out of sight, out of mind - they would have insisted on abortions anyway due to the pressure to not be exommunicated or austracized from their faith based communities. The girls didn't stand a chance.

 

I met these young women in college. They came to a support group through the local crisis pregnancy center looking for help with depression do to the loss of a child. I was volunteering there and it was an eye opening experience as women shared their stories of hell on earth for both pregnancies that resulted from consensual sex outside marriage and from assault. Made me sick how horribly they had been treated.

 

The director told me, anecdotal so I can't say if there has been an official study, that her highest rate of abortion referals was with protestant girls who were from regular church attending families, and her highest rate of women wanting to keep their babies were amongst fully secular families be they atheist or agnostic. It would be interesting to read a real study on the subject. I suspect this would be accurate because there is such a high value placed on female virginity that the pressure to not keep a wanted baby would be immense and in the case of rape, not reporting because girls know they are not valued unless "unspoiled" would be a definite problem.

 

Females can't win.