Is it a lie?

[Night Elf]

When you don't volunteer information but don't confirm/deny it? You just sit quiet and hope you aren't addressed? I'm not talking about anything that would affect someone else. Gee, I'm thinking deep today. I'm bored out of my gourd.

[Aspasia]

I personally consider omission of information to be as dishonest as a straight-up lie. It's still deceptive, still leading (or at least allowing) someone to believe something that isn't true.

[Jean in Newcastle]

No, not a lie.  If people need to know the information then you should speak up about it.  If they don't, and are gossiping about it, then you don't need to add to that.  

[Wilma]

I think it depends on the situation -- is it a casual conversation?  Or are you being evaluated for fitness as a leader in some area?  Or applying for membership?

[bettyandbob]

It's a lie, if you are leading your mother to believe you did something that you did not do or will do something you do not plan to do.

 

Ask me how I came up with that definition. :001_smile:

[texasmama]

It can be deception. Depending on one's motives, this could be appropriate self- preservation/boundary-setting or an egregious omission.

Not being forthcoming about the specifics of a divorce is boundary-setting. Not volunteering the details of a will when you stand to benefit from others remaining in the dark is an egregious omission.

[momma2three]

Well, there's such a thing as "lying by omission," but if you're not involved in the conversation, then I don't think it really counts.

 

How I felt (on a moral basis) really depends on what the lie is, who is talking, and what your reasons are for staying silent.  There's an awful lot of room for gray area.

[fraidycat]

Wow. Talk about shades of grey. ;)

It depends on the situation.

Are we all lying here because we haven't volunteered full names, addresses, SSNs, etc.? I don't think so.

However, if we were interviewed by police for any reason, we should probably use real names. :)

[LisaKinVA]

Oftentimes, when I'm in group settings, people make assumptions about what those in the group believe.  Unless I'm feeling particularly feisty, I keep my trap shut (usually, my beliefs fall within the minority of the group settings).  I don't volunteer political, philosophical, personal or medical information as a general rule.

 

Sometimes, there is information we *can't* discuss (such as business information...knowing a store is going to close, but it would be wrong to share that information when the owners haven't let their customers and employees know...and yes, I've known some of the employees).

 

If it's information that people have a right to know, that's different. I would count that as a deception.

 

 If people are seeking opinions about something I've had a great (or poor) experience with...I may share that information publicly or privately (just depends upon what needs to be said...).

[SKL]

It depends on who wants to know and why.

 

I was just talking to my kids today about a situation where every time xyz is mentioned to Person Q, it creates tension and related problems.  Person Q does not need to know.  Person Q is not harmed (and nobody else is, either).  I am not asking my kids to lie.  I told them that they don't need to mention xyz, but if they are asked, they are to tell the truth.

 

I usually prefer to be completely straightforward, but let's face it:  sometimes people make this difficult.

 

Another case is when my sister calls about problems with her kid.  She really only wants to hear that this is normal, that my kids did the same at that age, that she's doing everything perfect.  Ummm.  "Do you still have that book I gave you?  I found it helpful when my kids were preschoolers.  Gotta run, my kids are cooking dinner."  Not a lie....

[SKL]

Here's one.  I was chatting with my girls' Sunday School teacher.  She had just finished telling me that her twins were redshirted because they have a summer birthday.  She then asked what grade my kids were going into.  My kids were accelerated; they have a fall birthday and a winter birthday.  My answer:  "1st grade."  To the look of surprise, "they are petite."  Not a lie.

[zoobie]

Totally depends on the situation/context.

Person talking to group: "My car was sideswiped in the parking lot! Who would do that and drive off?" If you were the one who damaged her car and sit there quietly, you're dishonest.

Is it your information to share? Does the person have a need for the information?

[dirty ethel rackham]

It would depend on the situation.  Does the person asking the question need to know the information?  Is it any of their business?  If not, then I don't consider it a lie.

[Gil]

Its a deception but I can live with it.

[KrissiK]

A lie is an intent to deceive. Omitting information is not necessarily a lie. Depends in what the intent is.

[musicianmom]

Here's my question: is it wrong to deceive when the answer is "none of your business"?

[SKL]

Here's my question: is it wrong to deceive when the answer is "none of your business"?

 

It would be wrong to tell false information, but to keep quiet or answer with non-information, probably not.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Here's my question: is it wrong to deceive when the answer is "none of your business"?

 

If it isn't really the questioner's business, then it isn't deception, but setting an appropriate boundary.  If it is the questioner's business, then it isn't really deception (false information) but defiance. 
 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

No, it's not lying.

Doesn't mean others won't react as of it were lying.

[Wilma]

Here's my question: is it wrong to deceive when the answer is "none of your business"?

 

Yep. 

 

Someone else's prying wouldn't okay deceit, for me. "I'd rather not talk about that now," or, "why do you want to know?" or, "let's talk about something else" would not share the information, and would not be deceitful.

[SKL]

Is it always wrong to tell false information? Does your relationship with the person you're deceiving matter? Does it matter if they'd use the truth to harm you in some way?

 

My conscience says it is always a lie to outright say something one knows isn't true.  However, there may be times when it is the lesser of two evils.  I have always had some trouble with this concept.  I got myself in hot water more than once over feeling like I had to tell the truth, a truth nobody else would have told.

 

Like the time I was interviewed for a scholarship to the expensive grad school I was attending.  I was asked, "would you attend even if you did not get the scholarship?"  I said, "yes."  (I was attending on student loans, totaling $85K plus interest by the time I graduated.)  Everyone says that was dumb and I should have at least said "well, I would try, but I am not sure I could."  (Which I would not have thought of because I was too black and white.)

 

As I get older, I am a little more willing to rationalize the importance of telling the absolute truth.  But I still feel guilty about it.
 

[lavender's green]

It depends on the situation.  I can see not spilling everything in personal conversations where the issue isn't all that important.  But it can be different in professional situations.  For example, when meeting with my first birth center to decide if I was going to use them or not, I asked if they had ever lost any mothers or babies, and they said no.  They made their record sound absolutely awesome.  After the birth I found out through the local newspaper that the birth center had indeed lost a baby, and nearly lost a mother, through the negligence of a midwife.  But they didn't tell me that because they hadn't personally lost the baby, and that midwife was no longer practicing.  I still felt pretty lied to, though.  Especially since they made the record sound lilly-white.

[poppy]

Oftentimes, when I'm in group settings, people make assumptions about what those in the group believe.  Unless I'm feeling particularly feisty, I keep my trap shut (usually, my beliefs fall within the minority of the group settings).  I don't volunteer political, philosophical, personal or medical information as a general rule.

 

Sometimes, there is information we *can't* discuss (such as business information...knowing a store is going to close, but it would be wrong to share that information when the owners haven't let their customers and employees know...and yes, I've known some of the employees).

 

If it's information that people have a right to know, that's different. I would count that as a deception.

 

 If people are seeking opinions about something I've had a great (or poor) experience with...I may share that information publicly or privately (just depends upon what needs to be said...).

 

I think that's definitely lying. It's also ethically appropriate. 

In the same category as deliberately not using sex/gender pronouns when discussing a pregnancy.
Acceptable deception.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that's definitely lying. It's also ethically appropriate. 

In the same category as deliberately not using sex/gender pronouns when discussing a pregnancy.
Acceptable deception.

I disagree that it is lying to not disclose something that you can't discuss.  I was accused of lying once for not divulging information I had gotten in a counseling type of situation (not subject to doctor patient confidentiality but still given with the expectation of privacy).  My stance was that it was not my information to give and if I had given only part of the information, it would have led to questions about more confidential stuff.  So I said nothing.  The old "I can neither confirm nor deny" stuff leads to speculation that can be harmful, I think.  

[Night Elf]

I wasn't really thinking of anything particular, just speculating in a general way. Your answers have been interesting though. I used to lie when I was much younger, generally to keep myself from looking bad. But as I've gotten older, I just don't have anything to lie about. I don't feel virtuous or anything though. I just lead a boring life. :)

[HSmomof2]

Agree that it depends on the situation.....some omissions are meant to deceive, sometimes it's to spare someone's feelings, and some things just aren't anyone's business. :-)

[Mrs Mungo]

Agree that it depends on the situation.....some omissions are meant to deceive, sometimes it's to spare someone's feelings, and some things just aren't anyone's business. :-)

I agree.

[Danestress]

Some omissions are not lies but are still wrong.  If my lawyer doesn't tell me that a settlement offer was tendered, he's not lying, but it is unethical.  If my doctor doesn't tell me that I have cancer, he's not lying, but he is failing to disclose information I believe he is obligated to share.

 

If my 17 year old kid doesn't tell me that he got a speeding ticket, that's not a lie, but it is a transgression and a type of dishonesty.

 

If I say to a friend, "I hope your kid are mine will be in the same class next year," and she smiles and nods but doesn't tell me that her son is actually not going back to that school, it's not a lie and it's also not wrong - she will share information when it suits her to do so. 

 

Other things ARE lies, but in my opinion are permissible lies.  If someone says, "Is it true your father had an affair with the mayor's wife?" I think they are fishing for gossip, and I would feel free to say, "I don't think so,"  even if I know that he did, in fact, have such an affair.  And to me, this is a great example of a time when saying, "None of your business," doesn't really work.  It pretty much tells the person what they want to know.  I could say something like, 'Why on earth would you care, and feel entitled to ask?"  But I think that still makes it more likely than not that they will assume the story is true.  I tend to think that if people are going to blatantly fish for information that is gossip and not their business, I should feel free to lie.

 

Here is something I noticed today when I was at an event with a lot of people who I don't see very often.  When I tell women (and it's only women) that my son got married last year, many of them will ask, "Do you like her?" 

 

Isn't that weird?  But it happens all the time. I love my DIL, so no problem.  But what if I didn't?  I could never say, "No."  And I could never say, "None of your business."  So I guess if I had a son marry a DIL I didn't like, I could either find a way to say something true that is not really an answer,  ("She's really smart."  "He is so in love"), or I could just lie and say that yes, I like her.  I am not always quick enough on my feet to think of the perfect, non-lying but also non-disclosing thing to say.  And frankly, I would not feel that bad about lying in that situation.

 

Also, sometimes I think a question is asking a for information that would simply be boring.  "How did you sleep last night?"  "Did you have an easy trip getting here?"   "How have you been feeling lately?"  I don't actually believe that most people want to hear how I didn't sleep well, got lost on the way to the party, or have been troubled by tendonitis.  So I guess it is lying, but I feel OK about saying, "Great," "Yes," and "Very well, thank you," to those questions. 

 

 

 

 

[SKL]

Oh, and then there are the people who I 100% know are gay but are mostly in the closet.  That falls into the "not my business to share" category IMO.  So far I have not been in a position where I'd have to choose between an outright lie and the truth, but if I ever am, that will probably be a time when I will lie.  And if confronted later, I will tell the person that it was not my business to tell.  And too bad if anyone doesn't like it.

[bolt.]

a ) I'd say that in most cases, keeping your own business to yourself is neither lying nor particularly deceptive. It's just fine to allow people to assume you are average-in-their-eyes, and not feel a driving need to enlighten them otherwise.

 

b ) Sometimes, if the information is relevant, and their assumptions are clearly inaccurate, it would be slightly deceptive to encourage their misapprehension through silence.

 

c ) If the information is both relevant and important, that's actually deceptive, but (to me) it does not rise to the level of 'lying by omission'.

 

d ) To lie by omission, I think whatever the misapprehension is needs to be somehow sort-of damaging (I don't know quite how to say what I mean) unless it is cleared up, or it needs to be in the context of a relationship where you ethically/morally "owe the truth" for some reason.

 

I do think that it is equivalent-to-boundary-setting (not unethical) to genuinely lie to someone who has asked you for inappropriate information that is private, none of their business, or not something you can ethically disclose. (No, I don't think that, "I don't want to talk about it." or "None of your business." is always an honest way to avoid lying in situations like that -- often a refusal to comment will be taken 'I can't deny it' and therefore discloses more information than is appropriate.

 

Example: If tomorrow I find that I have run out of clean underwear, and I choose to go commando. I feel fine in case (a) not to go around spontaneously disclosing my undergarment status -- people will assume I'm wearing them, but I'm not obligated to set them straight. In case ( b ) I were to stumble into a group of women discussing today's underwear choices, I still would not need to tell them that I'm going-without today. Further, if one of them intrusively asked, "You ARE wearing underwear today, aren't you Bolt?" I would feel fine to answer "Yes, of course." -- as a boundary-lie. I wouldn't consider it unethical to have not told the truth in response to inappropriate questioning. That lady's ability to ask intrusive questions does not mean that my general sense of honesty obligates me to disclose to her *anything* she asks about.

[HRAAB]

Interesting question and one I've considered.  There are certain people who have very firmly held beliefs.  They assume I feel the same way they do.  When certain conversations come up, I stay quiet or else try to re-direct the conversation.  I have considered the possibility that since they interpret my silence as agreement that I am deceiving them.  On the other hand, I know that this issue could ruin not only my friendship but also impact my children's friendships with their children.  If it were just me, I would probably be more inclined to state my beliefs, but since my children are involved, I keep quiet.

 

However, if I was asked point blank what I think about a certain subject, I would not lie.  It's easy just to stay quiet, though.

[musicianmom]

Intellectually, I agree with both Danestress and bolt. My conscience, however, is rather over active and doesn't treat me well if I give the slightest untruth. It's a genetic trait, I think.

[El...]

I think the question, "Why do you ask?",  with the eyebrows planted in the hairline, is the right approach to a lot of unreasonable inquiries.  I have this friend...I need to use this more.  She asked me what birth control method we use.  In church.  During the greeting time.  I'm so doggone honest, I answered her quietly.  I don't know why I shared that; I didn't want to.

 

If someone in a group is going on and on about what "we all think" and I actually do NOT agree, I may not set him straight.  However, if he's bullying someone with our group opinion, I have to step up.

[Liz CA]

Too vague for a definitive answer. Not everyone needs to know everything...

[KungFuPanda]

Does the person have a need or right to know this information? I find this is seldom the case and most people feel entitled to more information than they deserve.

[Aspasia]

Wow. Talk about shades of grey. ;)
It depends on the situation.
Are we all lying here because we haven't volunteered full names, addresses, SSNs, etc.? I don't think so.
However, if we were interviewed by police for any reason, we should probably use real names. :)

I think it's about intent to deceive. It's widely understood that we use fake names on the internet as a matter of personal safety. We all know we aren't using our real names, so nobody is being "deceived". It's an agreement.

It depends, but frankly I think it's my right to not tell people stuff (so long as it doesn't lead to harm).

But really it depends highly on the situation.

Well, of course it's your right. It's also your right to tell bold face lies and do all kinds of other immoral things, too, right? But this is about what is and isn't moral.

Agree that it depends on the situation.....some omissions are meant to deceive, sometimes it's to spare someone's feelings, and some things just aren't anyone's business. :-)

Yes to this. It's all about intent to deceive. Deception is the same as lying. But discretion is not the same as deception.

[Audrey]

It depends on the situation, of course, but IMO, in general, saying nothing is not a lie. 

[SKL]

I think it's about intent to deceive. It's widely understood that we use fake names on the internet as a matter of personal safety. We all know we aren't using our real names, so nobody is being "deceived". It's an agreement.
 

 

This reminds me of a fuss I found myself in about a year ago in a secret facebook group.  My facebook name at the time was not my real name, it was very clearly the name of a location (similar to: Germantown Iowa).  Someone raised a stink about this, and I explained that I was using a pseudonym because I was avoiding a vindictive ex.  Nevertheless, it spooked people enough that folks proposed a ban on anyone who didn't use her "real name."  Someone also reported me to the facebook "powers that be" because apparently it is against facebook rules to use a pseudonym.  (Who knew?)  After a while I was not able to log into facebook until I changed my name.  Ridiculous.  It is not dangerous to have an obvious pseudonym.

[kiwik]

As I get older I find it easier to lie. It is just so tedious explaining things to people who aren't really interested and don't understand. I wouldn't lie in court and not about major stuff but little stuff yes. It is lying to agree with things when you don't or to do so by omission but you have to pick your battles. Besides which why offend people to no purpose. I have offended many people by speaking out but not about trivial stuff.

[bettyandbob]

So, this morning, you could say I lied by omission, but I don't think it was important and I guess that's where the gray area is.

 

I stopped at Starbucks on the way to work. An elderly woman in line started to question me in a "do I know you from somewhere way". Then she asked if I went to (church I quit attending 2 years ago). I just said yes. I haven't transferred my church membership. She doesn't really know me. It's very painful to explain--she doesn't want to know and I don't want to stress myself out. So, I just said "yes", because theoretically I am still a member.