Would you report this? (suspicion of possible abuse)

[DawnM]

Our state allows it, so I would not report it.  I would keep an eye out for any further revelations by the mother.

 

 

[Cera]

As a mandated reporter I would report it.  While I don't agree with spanking it is legal.  Hitting your child with an object other than your hand is not in our state and in my opinion goes well beyond an attempt at punishment.

[umsami]

Sadly where I live (Florida) spanking with a belt is not considered child abuse.  Now, if they leave marks, it could be.  (Although my personal feelings do differ.)

 

I would watch/wait…and honestly, I'd probably try and get the mega church to host a parenting seminar that dealt with nonphysical methods, be it 1-2-3 Magic, PET, Love & Logic, etc.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I had to say other.

My mother used a belt on me as her go-to punishment. My father used a belt once after I did a really stupid thing. Thinking of my past, I might not report.

I had a friend who used to keep a belt available and threaten her severe ADHD kid every other second while trying to get ready before school. If it were like this, I would report. (Mom forgets alarm, wakes up late and follows unmedicated kid around threatening because he's not dressing quick enough)

[JFSinIL]

I'd err on the side of caution and report this. 

[Mbelle]

Before I would go report this, I would actually talk to the parent.  Honestly, I believe reporting things without talking to someone is turning our society into some sort of police state.  I once saw someone spanking their child pretty hard in my church parking lot.  I told my best friend at the church and she had seen another incident, so we both made calls to the youth pastor. 

 

I never ever spank my children.  

 

However, I was spanked as a child and with a belt, flyswatter, wooden spoon etc..  That was the norm for my area.  It did make me angry and I hated my parents. I don't think it affects every child the same way, but I vowed to never spank my children.  I would rather talk about things and hopefully grow a good relationship with my kids.

[SKL]

It sounded like the mom herself considered the punishment extreme (though not forbidden), by the way it came up in the conversation.  It comes across as, I really don't like to do that but I had already played all my other cards.  Talking to another mom about this suggests that she may have been looking for ideas so she doesn't have to go to that point again.

 

Another thing.  In my opinion, if you aren't a mandated reporter, you report if you think children are in danger.  So that would be my first question to myself.  Are these kids in danger, or do they just occasionally have to deal with something less than ideal?

 

[Mergath]

I was spanked with a belt, and I didn't become an angry person. If she is readily admitting it, then she is not a real abuser. If she were leaving bruises and being extremely cruel, she wouldn't talk about it.  You don't know if she is just giving one swat or how hard.

  

 

That's just not true, though.  Some people openly brag about hurting their kids.  I mean, look at the Pearls.  I don't think anyone would claim they aren't real abusers, and they've posted stories about it on their website.  And it's not uncommon for people who are part of a culture (often religious) that values obedience to brag about beating their children.    

[8circles]

It sounded like the mom herself considered the punishment extreme (though not forbidden), by the way it came up in the conversation. It comes across as, I really don't like to do that but I had already played all my other cards. Talking to another mom about this suggests that she may have been looking for ideas so she doesn't have to go to that point again.

Another thing. In my opinion, if you aren't a mandated reporter, you report if you think children are in danger. So that would be my first question to myself. Are these kids in danger, or do they just occasionally have to deal with something less than ideal?

Well, not exactly (not sure how you got all that from my brief summary) She was offering it as an option that "has good temporary results". And although we aren't friends I've been around her a lot, in different environments including my home. She doesn't have any other cards that I've seen except stern look while giving orders, then threaten spanking. She threatened spanking on her DS (8) when he didn't want to leave my house after a play date.

I think that we just have different opinions about what reporting to CPS is for.

[8circles]

Thank you everybody for your replies. Im honestly not sure what ill do yet but I appreciate all the input. I don't plan on telling you all when I decide - half of you will be relieved, the other half horrified. Lol.

[Spryte]

I would call our social worker and talk to her.  If we did not have a social worker (we are an approved foster family but don't have foster kids at the moment), I'd call and talk to someone to find out if they are concerned.  If a report needs to be made, I'd make it.

 

Aside from whether it's legal or not, I find the idea of hitting a child with a belt deeply upsetting and disturbing.  But we don't hit our children.  So I am coming at it from that perspective.  

 

 

ETA: just saw your post right before mine.  Whatever you decide, I hope you'll feel good about it, and that you'll feel you are making the best possible decision you can make.  Not sharing it here is probably wise.  :)

[Anne in CA]

Since it is possibly legal where you live I don't know that you could report it. HOWEVER, I do believe it is a sin against her children and she should be talked to about it. Not in a "you're such a loser that you hit your kid," but "you have other options to train your children and here are some that will not cause them to become resentful of you and here is a boundaries parenting class offered by Xchurch in our area." so that you will have some effect. Usually explaining that someone is wrong sends them deeper into their behavior, but being kind and offering genuine alternatives can be more helpful.

[Chris in VA]

<snip  My church recently had a Sunday School class that centered on the belief that kids need to be spanked early and often or there is little hope for their souls. >snip

 

Wow. 

[8circles]

Wow.

Wait - RECENTLY?

[SKL]

I agree with asking a social worker who will give you an honest answer, if possible.  I've done that before regarding something I was doing with my kid during the terrible 2s.  (It did not involve hurting or scaring.)  Some people had expressed strong feelings about it, so I asked the lady who did our post-adoption check-ins.  She told me that her husband worked for CPS (oops) but she gave me an honest answer and nothing bad came of it.

[shawthorne44]

I would report it.  I would also like someone to take a belt to the mom.  

I can see where you are struggling, though.  I wouldn't report if I saw ordinary spanking (whatever that is).  But using a Belt over Schoolwork?  Something is wrong.  

The fact that the kid is so angry leads me to think that the kid is being emotionally damaged.  

[Tohru]

You'll make the decision that is best.  Its good that you care enough about the children to even consider taking action - most people would be complacent if they didn't like the family.

[SKL]

Wait - RECENTLY?

 

Yeah, about a year ago.  I paraphrased the class summary, LOL, but spanking as a duty was the central point of the class.  And yes, they specifically included wee tots.  They were NOT advocating what I'd consider "abuse" but more of a "spare the rod once and you WILL spoil the child" view.

 

I was surprised too.  I know most people will spank at some time or other, but nowadays most people won't openly advocate it like that.

 

My mom always said that if your kids know you'll spank them, you hardly ever have to actually do it.  With that in mind, I don't oppose spanking, but I recommend that with this and any other form of discipline, when it starts to be frequent or repetitive, it's time to reboot.  I've definitely needed to reboot a few times.
 

[JFSinIL]

I might add - if she is using a belt just for not doing school work....how is she dealing with more major problems?  Please report this and let the professionals take a look and see if intervention is needed.

[JoJosMom]

As someone who got to sit on the frontlines and watch CPS in action (as a juvenile prosecutor), I would not unleash the hounds of bureaucratic hell on another family unless I was very sure that the situation was abuse and not just parenting choices I disdain.

 

Please remember that "professionals" in Massachusetts know more about mitochondrial disorder than do the acknowedged experts in the field. 

 

(And, yes, I know that social workers are the salt of the earth and right up there in the pantheon of the gods with single mothers.  But some of them are small-minded bureaucrats with unbelievable power.  And enjoy it.)

[ChocolateReignRemix]

As someone who got to sit on the frontlines and watch CPS in action (as a juvenile prosecutor), I would not unleash the hounds of bureaucratic hell on another family unless I was very sure that the situation was abuse and not just parenting choices I disdain.

 

Please remember that "professionals" in Massachusetts know more about mitochondrial disorder than do the acknowedged experts in the field. 

 

(And, yes, I know that social workers are the salt of the earth and right up there in the pantheon of the gods with single mothers.  But some of them are small-minded bureaucrats with unbelievable power.  And enjoy it.)

 

A bold assessment when you have limited facts on the case.

[Catwoman]

I keep thinking about this (I don't know why it's sticking in my mind, but it is,) and the more I think about it, the more certain I am that I wouldn't report it.

Think about it this way and see if you understand why I wouldn't do it.

OK, this mom is having a casual chat with a trusted friend and she mentions the spanking/belt thing as a small part of a larger conversation with this friend whom she trusts. She isn't making a big deal about it, nor is she bragging about beating her kids or going into a tirade about how parents today aren't strict enough. She didn't indicate that she uses the belt more than "occasionally," which for all we know could mean twice in her life -- we just don't know.

After the conversation, the mom's friend and momoflaw talk about what the woman had said and both she and the friend say they're uncomfortable with the other mom's choices, but the friend isn't sure the woman should be reported. Momoflaw is worried and isn't sure what to do.

So... all I keep thinking is that it's a bit disconcerting to think you can have a casual conversation with a trusted friend, bring something up in passing, and end up getting reported to CPS for it because someone else was eavesdropping on the conversation.

The mom has never hit or otherwise physically abused her kids in front of momoflaw or the friend, and the worst thing they have seen her do is give a "stern look" or threaten a spanking.

I'm sorry, but even as someone who is totally anti-belt, I don't think you report someone for that. This woman could be a wonderful mother who needs some help in figuring out more appropriate methods of dealing with her kids when they misbehave, not a vicious abuser.

I know that the people who want to report every single person who spanks their kids will never agree with me, but I really do think that it's pretty extreme to report this woman with no cause other than a few comments made during a single conversation with a friend. Frankly, it's kind of scary to think that people report other parents on such a sliver of evidence. Being reported to CPS is a very big deal, and I don't think it should be done cavalierly, especially because no one has even bothered to talk to the woman again and get a better idea of what's really going on.

For all we know, she was just having a terrible day with the kids and was venting to her friend, whom she trusted would understand that she was just venting, and not rush off to report her to CPS.

Again, I'll defer to momoflaw to know the right thing to do, because she was there and I wasn't, but I do think it's only fair for either momoflaw or her friend to try to talk to the mom about it again before anyone considers involving the authorities.

[Tmhearn]

There is no way I would report the mom just based on the info posted. In my mind, a call to CPS means a distinct possibility that the children could be taken away from their parents. Are you absolutely positive that they are in such a dangerous situation that they might need to be removed from their home? If so, make the call. If not, find another avenue to pursue. Surely, there are other options beyond calling CPS or ignoring the situation altogether. What about discussing the issue with someone higher up in the church she goes to? What about F recommending some Parenting books?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

There is no way I would report the mom just based on the info posted. In my mind, a call to CPS means a distinct possibility that the children could be taken away from their parents. Are you absolutely positive that they are in such a dangerous situation that they might need to be removed from their home? If so, make the call. If not, find another avenue to pursue. Surely, there are other options beyond calling CPS or ignoring the situation altogether. What about discussing the issue with someone higher up in the church she goes to? What about F recommending some Parenting books?

 

If a child has is being beaten badly enough with a belt to warrant removal (no clue if that is the case but that is what an investigation is for), then a "conversation" with the mom or a few parenting books is unlikely to end the abuse.

[8circles]

I'm only responding because this has been a really respectful conversation & I appreciate that this has been a discussion & not an argument. 

 

Catwoman, I do understand because this reasoning is what is making it difficult to be a cut-&-dried thing for me.  I will clarify a bit below.  I do think reasonable people can differ on this so I'm not trying to persuade, just clarify. 

I keep thinking about this (I don't know why it's sticking in my mind, but it is,) and the more I think about it, the more certain I am that I wouldn't report it.

Think about it this way and see if you understand why I wouldn't do it.

OK, this mom is having a casual chat with a trusted friend and she mentions the spanking/belt thing as a small part of a larger conversation with this friend whom she trusts. She isn't making a big deal about it, nor is she bragging about beating her kids or going into a tirade about how parents today aren't strict enough. She didn't indicate that she uses the belt more than "occasionally," which for all we know could mean twice in her life -- we just don't know.  

After the conversation, the mom's friend and momoflaw talk about what the woman had said and both she and the friend say they're uncomfortable with the other mom's choices, but the friend isn't sure the woman should be reported. Momoflaw is worried and isn't sure what to do.

So... all I keep thinking is that it's a bit disconcerting to think you can have a casual conversation with a trusted friend, bring something up in passing, and end up getting reported to CPS for it because someone else was eavesdropping on the conversation.  I wouldn't call it eavesdropping.  There are a bunch of us moms who set together in a big multi-purpose room with big round 8-person tables plus plenty of room to run for the kids.  At that time, all 3 of us were sitting at the table, & just prior to this I was conversing with F.  I then was checking email on my phone & F & A's conversation began.  If I were willing to be friends with A, I would have been part of the conversation automatically - that's the dynamic of the group.  It was not a private conversation in that regard - I just chose not to participate.  The last time I participated did not go well (it was about teaching her 1st grade girl to dress modestly in order to not cause men to stumble).

The mom has never hit or otherwise physically abused her kids in front of momoflaw or the friend, and the worst thing they have seen her do is give a "stern look" or threaten a spanking.

I'm sorry, but even as someone who is totally anti-belt, I don't think you report someone for that. This woman could be a wonderful mother who needs some help in figuring out more appropriate methods of dealing with her kids when they misbehave, not a vicious abuser.  I don't actually think she's an abuser, but I think she needs help.  I think a report to CPS CAN be how this is achieved - that's how it's supposed to work, right?  I have no way of knowing how CPS operates here.  I haven't heard any local horror stories - or any stories at all for this county.

I know that the people who want to report every single person who spanks their kids will never agree with me, but I really do think that it's pretty extreme to report this woman with no cause other than a few comments made during a single conversation with a friend. Frankly, it's kind of scary to think that people report other parents on such a sliver of evidence. Being reported to CPS is a very big deal, and I don't think it should be done cavalierly, especially because no one has even bothered to talk to the woman again and get a better idea of what's really going on.  I do get it.  I've tried to give all the relevant information but I realize that I can't accurately convey how I've absorbed all my experiences with this family & feel like reporting might be needed.  But it isn't based solely on this conversation.

For all we know, she was just having a terrible day with the kids and was venting to her friend, whom she trusted would understand that she was just venting, and not rush off to report her to CPS.

Again, I'll defer to momoflaw to know the right thing to do, because she was there and I wasn't, but I do think it's only fair for either momoflaw or her friend to try to talk to the mom about it again before anyone considers involving the authorities.

 

[Lolly]

I don't actually think she's an abuser,

 

Then you should not report her. It truly is that cut and dry. You do not agree with her parenting choice. You think that you know a better way to manage. While you may be correct, reporting her to CPS for abuse of her child, whom you do not even think she is abusing, is extremely wrong.

 

 

 

[umsami]

Here's another option.  You could try calling the National Parenting Hotline for advice 1-855-4-A-PARENT http://www.nationalparenthelpline.org

 

or 

 

Childhelp http://www.childhelp.org/pages/hotline-home

"The Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline 1-800-4-A-CHILD (1-800-422-4453) is dedicated to the prevention of child abuse. Serving the United States, its territories, and Canada, the Hotline is staffed 24 hours a day, 7 days a week with professional crisis counselors who, through interpreters, can provide assistance in 170 languages. The Hotline offers crisis intervention, information, literature, and referrals to thousands of emergency, social service, and support resources. All calls are anonymous and confidential."

[SKL]

The other day I saw a proposal to pass a law that children must be removed "for their protection" during every CPS investigation.

 

No, in my opinion CPS is not the "helping parents to learn better skills" agency.  That's what friends and book recommendations are for.

 

I like the point someone made about this being a scary thought that a conversation with a trusted friend could lead to a call to the Gestapo CPS.  If that becomes the case, then people won't go to their friends when they need parenting help.  And kids might end up more endangered.  Plus, it just kind of stinks IMO.  Even if I thought someone needed an "intervention" from CPS, I would warn my friend first.

[8circles]

I don't actually think she's an abuser,

Then you should not report her. It truly is that cut and dry. You do not agree with her parenting choice. You think that you know a better way to manage. While you may be correct, reporting her to CPS for abuse of her child, whom you do not even think she is abusing, is extremely wrong.

I disagree with you. I think her methods are abusive. Maybe that's how abuser should be defined but somehow I don't.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The other day I saw a proposal to pass a law that children must be removed "for their protection" during every CPS investigation.

 

No, in my opinion CPS is not the "helping parents to learn better skills" agency.  That's what friends and book recommendations are for.

 

I like the point someone made about this being a scary thought that a conversation with a trusted friend could lead to a call to the Gestapo CPS.  If that becomes the case, then people won't go to their friends when they need parenting help.  And kids might end up more endangered.  Plus, it just kind of stinks IMO.  Even if I thought someone needed an "intervention" from CPS, I would warn my friend first.

 

The thread has been officially Godwinn'd.  Good luck all.

[Desert Strawberry]

Poor parenting, yes. In need of help, support, guidance, education, parenting books, absolutely. Abuse, no. Not legally. Not witnessed. There is no basis for a report to an already overburdened CPS. 

There are many kind and graceful means to assist this mother and her children. Making unfounded allegations of abuse is not one of them.

 

Eta: I am a mandatory reporter. In the area where I live, I would literally have to report several families every day by these standards. Threatening to whip or beat a child, sometimes with graphic language, is extremely common. Extremely. I sincerely hope that all of those children are not being abused. 

[Lolly]

I disagree with you. I think her methods are abusive. Maybe that's how abuser should be defined but somehow I don't.

 

You think you should report her for abuse that you yourself said isn't happening??? That was a direct quote from your post. (I could not quote it directly because you had responded within a quote.) So, you DO think she is abusive? Either you do or you don't. I quoted where you said you did not think she was. By the definition of abuse that you provided us with, a method is not abuse; results are required. What methods YOU consider to be abusive are irrelevant.

 

Also, the purpose of CPS: The Child Protective Services division strives to protect children whose lives or health are seriously jeopardized because of abusive acts or negligence. This is directly from a CPS website.

 

Do you think the child's life is in serious jeopardy? Do you think they are being abused? (You already said you do not.) Do you think he is being neglected? (Hasn't been raised, so I doubt it.) If those criteria are not met, you should not be reporting. 

[Catwoman]

I disagree with you. I think her methods are abusive. Maybe that's how abuser should be defined but somehow I don't.

I'm going to try to rephrase your post because I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly.

You don't think she's an abuser or a terrible mother, but you think her chosen methods of discipline are abusive, so you're not sure what to do. You don't think she's cruel for the sake of being mean, but the end result is that she's being mean anyway due to her choice of punishments.

Am I getting closer?

Sorry to be so clueless!

[VeteranMom]

With the mandated reporter thing, isn't that when you're at your job and you encounter something that is a concern? I've always thought that it was for a job and doesn't make you responsible for reporting everyone you suspect in your personal life or that you come across when out in public. I'd be calling after every trip to Walmart if that mandated reporter thing trickles over to all my outings! There is always something happening with kids and parents at Walmart.
Your situation is a tough one. I'd report and let CPS investigate. The fact that her kid has anger issues is a red flag. It's the belt that bothers me most- why is a belt necessary? How is that going to get the kid to enjoy what he's learning? Just seems like the mother isn't handling her situation well. She needs some help and maybe CPS could improve some things for the family?
Hope you are at peace with whatever you decide to do.

[Desert Strawberry]

With the mandated reporter thing, isn't that when you're at your job and you encounter something that is a concern? I've always thought that it was for a job and doesn't make you responsible for reporting everyone you suspect in your personal life or that you come across when out in public. I'd be calling after every trip to Walmart if that mandated reporter thing trickles over to all my outings! There is always something happening with kids and parents at Walmart.
Your situation is a tough one. I'd report and let CPS investigate. The fact that her kid has anger issues is a red flag. It's the belt that bothers me most- why is a belt necessary? How is that going to get the kid to enjoy what he's learning? Just seems like the mother isn't handling her situation well. She needs some help and maybe CPS could improve some things for the family?
Hope you are at peace with whatever you decide to do.

It's my understanding that once a mandatory reporter, always a mandatory reporter, always, at all times. That's what I was told by CPS last time I called(not that I do it often!) When I told her that I was not working at the time.

Once you have had child abuse detection training, the responsibility stays with you forever.

[Catwoman]

I have a few honest question and I hope no one thinks I'm being snarky, because I would really like to know the answers.

What is the actual "official" CPS criteria for what constitutes a reportable offense?

Is CPS considered to be a service that helps parents learn better parenting skills, or is it mainly for cases where obvious abuse is already occurring?

Until I read this thread, I never thought of CPS as being a free counseling service for generally OK parents who need better parenting skills, but more as an investigative authority that determines whether or not abuse is occurring and whether or not to remove children from the home.

I'm picturing this being reported to CPS and authorities showing up at the woman's home and grilling her on her parenting methods and taking the kids aside and subjecting them to detailed questioning, and the parents having to hire attorneys to represent them and being terrified that their children will be taken away from them. I'm not picturing a nice woman from CPS inviting the woman to sign up for some parenting classes.

Again, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or snarky here. It's just that my impression has always been that is a very big deal to be reported to CPS, and that it's very traumatic for the whole family, including the kids, so it's not something you do unless you're really and truly sure that there is real abuse going on.

Can anyone enlighten me on this?

[8circles]

I'm going to try to rephrase your post because I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly.

You don't think she's an abuser or a terrible mother, but you think her chosen methods of discipline are abusive, so you're not sure what to do. You don't think she's cruel for the sake of being mean, but the end result is that she's being mean anyway due to her choice of punishments.

Am I getting closer?

Sorry to be so clueless!

Yes - this is what I'm getting at.  Thanks for trying to get me.

 

You think you should report her for abuse that you yourself said isn't happening??? That was a direct quote from your post. (I could not quote it directly because you had responded within a quote.) So, you DO think she is abusive? Either you do or you don't. I quoted where you said you did not think she was. By the definition of abuse that you provided us with, a method is not abuse; results are required. What methods YOU consider to be abusive are irrelevant.

 

Also, the purpose of CPS: The Child Protective Services division strives to protect children whose lives or health are seriously jeopardized because of abusive acts or negligence. This is directly from a CPS website.

 

Do you think the child's life is in serious jeopardy? Do you think they are being abused? (You already said you do not.) Do you think he is being neglected? (Hasn't been raised, so I doubt it.) If those criteria are not met, you should not be reporting. 

Lolly, I'm just fleshing-out my thoughts on this so please don't try to "catch" me in being contradictory.  I'm explaining as best I can and I think - if you are wanting to understand me - that my intentions are good & I'm trying to do the right thing.  I don't appreciated the tone you're using to question me.

 

I have to run so I won't be back until evening.  I'm happy to try to clarify then, if this thread hasn't further degraded.

[VeteranMom]

 

It's my understanding that once a mandatory reporter, always a mandatory reporter, always, at all times. That's what I was told by CPS last time I called(not that I do it often!) When I told her that I was not working at the time.
Once you have had child abuse detection training, the responsibility stays with you forever.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I never recall receiving any specific child abuse detection training. I know much more about elderly neglect and abuse- that's terribly common these days.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I have a few honest question and I hope no one thinks I'm being snarky, because I would really like to know the answers.

What is the actual "official" CPS criteria for what constitutes a reportable offense?

Is CPS considered to be a service that helps parents learn better parenting skills, or is it mainly for cases where obvious abuse is already occurring?

Until I read this thread, I never thought of CPS as being a free counseling service for generally OK parents who need better parenting skills, but more as an investigative authority that determines whether or not abuse is occurring and whether or not to remove children from the home.

I'm picturing this being reported to CPS and authorities showing up at the woman's home and grilling her on her parenting methods and taking the kids aside and subjecting them to detailed questioning, and the parents having to hire attorneys to represent them and being terrified that their children will be taken away from them. I'm not picturing a nice woman from CPS inviting the woman to sign up for some parenting classes.

Again, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or snarky here. It's just that my impression has always been that is a very big deal to be reported to CPS, and that it's very traumatic for the whole family, including the kids, so it's not something you do unless you're really and truly sure that there is real abuse going on.

Can anyone enlighten me on this?

 

State of Texas guidelines for reporting abuse:

http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Contact_Us/report_abuse.asp

 

Resources to support parents:

http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Protection/Family_Based_Support/fbss.asp

 

Other states are similar.

 

[foxbridgeacademy]

Having been "that" child, I beg you to please report them.  I love my parents dearly, but they were very young and having been raised (my dad) in a much harsher environment, really didn't know what they were doing was wrong.  My father has apologized many times and would never consider raising a hand to his grandchildren.  He can't even explain why he was so harsh with me, other his own raising and that's what the church told him to do.  My mom (who did not whip us but allowed it to happen) has never talked about it, which is what she does when she feels really, really guilty about something.  So yes, report them, help them break the cycle.

 

I'm astounded by the poll results.

[SKL]

I agree with you, Catwoman.  It may vary by location, but I still would not take the chance.  They have a ridiculous amount of power.  And you never know what your kids are going to say.  Mine will exaggerate an incident or report a one-time event over and over for years.  My kid is still convinced that I "kicked" her when she was 4 or 5 and I used my foot to nudge her out of the walkway (where she was sitting on the floor).  I'm sure they could come up with a long list of parenting offenses on me, but no, my kids are not in danger.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I am bit confused as to what some of you think constitutes "real" abuse?  If the child is being beaten with a belt and *if* that is leaving marks, would that not be real abuse?  If the criteria some of you have is that you must actually witness the abuse or see the marks yourself, you are setting quite a high standard for reporting that works to the advantage of abusers.

[SeaConquest]

I would definitely report it.

[shawthorne44]

I do find it very sad that a legitimate fear of CPS makes it less likely that suspected abuse wouldn't be reported.  Note that I think the fear is well founded.  

I just asked my boss.  She started out as a CPS worker (one of the good ones).  She quit because she is having a hard time dealing with a kid with many cigarette burns.  And she had some other stories, one popular children's toy is ruined for me (no loss)  An older case worker said, "You will get used to it.  Dear."  She didn't want to get used to it.  She said she would err on the side of reporting.  

[SKL]

CR, I do not consider occasional, moderate spanking with a belt (on the butt or other safe place) to be abuse / abusive.

 

There was no mention in the facts of any marks, seen or unseen.  Most of the time a moderate spanking with a belt does not leave marks.

 

Also, these are not the facts here, but I've had a couple of good fathers tell me that the first time they spanked their son with a belt, they saw marks and this upset them and they were much more careful after that.  I also do not consider this to be abuse.  I would consider it more like an accident.  The parent's intent was never to hurt the child like that, and the parent made sure it didn't happen again.

[Catwoman]

I am bit confused as to what some of you think constitutes "real" abuse? If the child is being beaten with a belt and *if* that is leaving marks, would that not be real abuse? If the criteria some of you have is that you must actually witness the abuse or see the marks yourself, you are setting quite a high standard for reporting that works to the advantage of abusers.

Has anyone said that the children had belt marks on them?

If momoflaw mentioned that in an earlier post and I missed it, that would change everything.

[Catwoman]

State of Texas guidelines for reporting abuse:
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Contact_Us/report_abuse.asp

Resources to support parents:
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Protection/Family_Based_Support/fbss.asp

Other states are similar.

Thanks! :)

[Dmmetler]

I've been a mandated reporter in several Southern states, and that wouldn't be considered abusive by itself between parent and child, and, by itself, wouldn't trigger more than a note being placed in the files.  The fact is, in the cities where I've lived/worked, it often takes really, really obvious physical abuse (like cigarette burns, multiple broken bones, or visible, severe bruising) and multiple reports of same before anything happens.

 

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't report, because I DO know that it takes multiple reports, over time, to trigger any investigation whatsoever, only that I'd report fully expecting nothing to happen.

 

 

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Has anyone said that the children had belt marks on them?

If momoflaw mentioned that in an earlier post and I missed it, that would change everything.

 

No, but my point is a child being spanked with a belt would likely only have marks where we would not see them.  If the standard becomes "we have to see marks" then a LOT of abuse will never be reported.

[Lolly]

I am bit confused as to what some of you think constitutes "real" abuse?  If the child is being beaten with a belt and *if* that is leaving marks, would that not be real abuse?  If the criteria some of you have is that you must actually witness the abuse or see the marks yourself, you are setting quite a high standard for reporting that works to the advantage of abusers.

 

 

I think that before reporting abuse, some evidence of the abuse should be available. Every person who is overheard saying that they have spanked their child is not nearly enough. Use of a belt or a paddle is not enough (unless that is specified in that state). If the parent had been saying something about how poor ds wasn't able to sit down because of the welts she had made, yes, report it. But, just the fact that she had used a belt? No. If dc wear wearing shorts and had belt lines showing on his legs, definitely. If dc were complaining about not being able to sit because of his spanking, yep. A difference of opinion on how/when discipline should be used; no.