Can you make your child more competitive? Should you try?

[lewber]

My son, 11, is a naturally gifted, talented kid. I'm reading a book on positive pushing and it has me thinking. We've always had to push him to try new things. He is very happy with the status quo. He doesn't have to work very hard to be pretty good at lots of things. But he doesn't seem to want to work very hard to be great at anything. He just doesn't get enough of a thrill out of winning to put in the extra effort I guess. I'm afraid he's going to sell himself short and be an underachiever. And yes, I am projecting my issues onto him :lol: I never had the motivation to be the best even though I had the natural ability to achieve more than I did.

 

I can't say he's lazy. He is in school and is an excellent student. But it all comes very easy to him. He doesn't have to work hard at all to win the fair, or get the highest grade, etc. Athletically, he is very coordinated and naturally athletic, but no real fire. He likes to win, but he also doesn't really care to lose. Is there a way to make his spirit burn more, or is that just a personality trait that some people have and some don't? I am really not trying to change him, but I also don't want to sell him short.

 

There's always so many thoughtful posters here, I'm hoping you'll help me think this through. I realize I didn't give a lot of details, but generally what are your thoughts on this. Do you push your children? I think for a child to be really successful at something, they have to buy into it in a way that makes them self motivated. I think adults are like that too. Have you ever seen a child's personality change in this regard at this age and older? Athletically and academically, how much do you make your children do vs what they willingly would do on their own?

 

 

[LucyStoner]

One of the reasons we homeschool is so that we can keep the work challenging for our son. I don't make it easy to breeze through the way my husband and I both breezed through school.

 

I also compliment him for effort more than ability. So "I can really see you worked hard at this, great job" rather than "you are so smart". We focus on being his best rather than being the best on a small pool. His 3rd grade science fair project was hands down the best in the whole homeschool center at all grade levels but we didn't focus on that so much one he fact that his work was up to his own level.

 

I don't think that being competitive is the key to success. Sometimes people who just want to win will do just enough to do that even if it is easy for their level. I also don't think that being competitive equates with being self motivated. The prize/gold star is after all an external motivator. I don't think that being competitive is a bad thing at all but it doesn't mean someone is self motivated. Certainly I have known many self motivated people who aren't that competitive. My husband is a bit of a perfectionist and is self motivated enough to do things like learn Mandarin on his own and teach himself a new instrument (while working, raising a family and getting a degree) but he doesn't care about if he wins anything. His satisfaction comes from within, not from praise or a possible prize.

[Word Nerd]

I definitely understand what you're saying. It may be that competition with others isn't what drives him to excel but rather some other external motivator. I think that's the case for my DD, and I'm not even sure I could say with certainty what motivates her to focus on a particular project or hobby except to continually beat her personal bests or master a specific skill or craft. Maybe it's just passion. It is a much bigger challenge to get her to put effort into pursuits she doesn't care about and other tasks that she has to do. She's perfectly content to coast along and put in a minimal amount of effort, and things come easily so she doesn't have to work hard to do well at school. It's kind of frustrating that a child who can spend hours writing, drawing, playing an instrument, building, or crafting resists putting any energy into life skills, academic subjects, and other things that are important but that she doesn't care about. Then again, even as I type that I realize I'm the same way. I should be mopping the kitchen right now instead of browsing TWTM! Finding the balance between what we have to do or should do and what we want to do is tricky, even for adults.

[catz]

I totally agree with Lucy Stoner. I have 2 kids that are very much like this, and my DH and I are both like this as well. This is a huge reason we homeschool. I don't think a kid needs to be struggling in every area all the time to learn a work ethic, but I do try to challenge my kid in at least some area all the time. My kids both started music lessons early and that in particular has been great for them to work with an outside mentor, move at their own pace, work on perfectionist tendencies, and be continually challenged in something. Both of them selected their own instruments before kindergarten age.

 

All that said, I don't really expect my kids to jump in and be suddenly wanting to compete with peers. That piece is a personality thing. Both my kids have highly invested extra curricular now and they both have chosen non-competitive, co-operative activities.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Over on the accelerated forum, a common theme is for parents to discuss how everything came easily to them until high school, college, or grad school...then they crashed. They hadn't had to work much to achieve what was hard work for many people, so their work ethic was poor. Many parents there say they thought being smart meant not needing to study, so when that approach didn't work anymore, they decided they must be stupid. For this reason, many of these parents have decided to make sure their kids have some subjects, music, or a sport that requires hard work with deliberate practice.

[trulycrabby]

I don't think you can change basic nature, but you can definitely teach them to have good work habits, and sometimes they learn that competition can be fun. Exposure to competitive situations can help a child self-motivate when they see their hard work pay off with success. For example, I was dyslexic and very uncompetitive in academics until I sat next to the brightest kid in school during Latin. I saw him make 97-100's on tests and thought, "hey, I want to beat this guy!" So I started studying real hard and making 100's. He got really mad about it, which completely made my day. :) I ended up completely turning my grades around because this smart kid stimulated my competitive drive.

[KrissiK]

My oldest is a lot like that. He's good looking, could be a good athlete (has all the raw materials- awesome strength, endurance, coordination), and could be a good student. But he isn't motivated. It's so frustrating. And we don't know what to do about it. He does just what he needs to get by and that's it. He doesn't push himself to achieve or get better. He could really be one of the top players on his soccer team, but there's no "I want it!" In his eye. So, he's just ok. You watch him play and think, "hmm, he could be really good, if he would try a little harder!"

[catz]

Right, but that all came from you.  Your parents didn't sit you next to a bright kid to motivate you.  They didn't tell you hey you should study hard so you can beat him at something.  We might be able to model and encourage, but I don't know what we can program our children to be the exact way we want them to be.

Exactly. Another kid might shut down under those conditions.

[readinmom]

No, and no. 

[Chris in VA]

Eh.

 

"The world needs more good men, not more smart men" comes to mind.

 

IDK. I get what you mean about doing one's best; I posted about dd in this regard not too long ago. I don't think that means being competitive with others, though.

 

I see all this perfectionism around me, with kids who can't handle getting something wrong/doing less than 100% on an assignment, moms who berate themselves for not having the energy to do X amount of things AND keep a spotless home AND volunteer out the whazoo--All this push-push-push, AchieveAchieveAchieve...

 

A kid who works AND plays well, has a balanced life, does well with friends/home/school--I'd be ok with that.

 

 

[lavender's green]

My kids aren't old enough for me to have to think about this yet, but I can speak from the kid's perspective.  My parents really pushed me to be competitive, which isn't really in my nature.  I suffered from crippling anxiety for years because of it.  I think a certain amount of competition in something the student really enjoys is beneficial (I wouldn't trade my band/orchestra HS experience for the world, although if I could go back I'd tell my younger self to take it a little less seriously), but pushing a kid to be something they're not can be damaging. And it can damage your relationship with your kid - how happy do you think my parents are that I'm "just" a housewife?  How do you think I feel about their judgment of the way I choose to live?

[MysteryJen]

Speaking as a parent of super competitive kids, I don't think you can make someone more competitive. Some people are truly more calm and easy going and "hey, isn't this fun" kind of people. Sometime people get more competitive as they mature, but that is not going to come from the outside.

 

That said, sometimes kids who say they don't care, win or lose, sometimes really do care, but are afraid to do the work or risk the heartbreaking loss. I know that my kids invest everything they have in their games/races or anything that can be made into a competition. And sometimes they lose. They are willing to take that risk.  But I do know that some kids opt out, not because they don't care about winning, but they care too much about losing. Parents can really help with that.

[trulycrabby]

Right, but that all came from you.  Your parents didn't sit you next to a bright kid to motivate you.  They didn't tell you hey you should study hard so you can beat him at something.  We might be able to model and encourage, but I don't know that we can program our children to be the exact way we want them to be.

Actually, I agree with you completely, my thoughts were not well organized in my response.

[DianeW88]

Make sure he does have something in his life that is challenging for him.  I was one of those gifted kids, who didn't have to study at all until I got to my sophomore year in college.  Then all heck broke loose.  I hated not naturally just knowing everything.  I was embarrassed, humiliated, and crushed when I failed a Statistics test.  That had NEVER happened to me before.  Hello?  I didn't fail.  I was smart.  What the heck was this nonsense?  You get the picture. :lol:   Anyway, I was so used to not having to ever *try* to attain anything in life, that this failure devastated me for awhile.  I literally had no frame of reference for it.  I didn't know what to do with failure.  Luckily, life provided me with many more opportunities to fail at things. :D  I just wish my parents had given me a little dose of reality earlier on in life.  There were literally hundreds of things I could have done as a kid that I would have sucked at :D , but because I resisted trying anything that I had an inkling I might not be stellar at from the get go, and my parents didn't push it...reality and I became acquainted at a much older age than was acceptable.

 

Don't be afraid to push him past his comfort zone.  And do a little cheer when he struggles.  It's good for him.  Trust me.

[Ottakee]

I am sorta like your son.  I did well in school.  I was the top of my grade K-8 (small rural school) and then near the top in a larger highschool but I honestly had no drive to be at the top as I got good grades without a lot of effort. I played the piano but enough to enjoy it, I never really worked at it or I could have likely gone farther.  Even in college I didn't have a lot of problems but I didn't push myself either. I  was on the honor roll the entire time but basically I went to college because I had scholarships and nothing else to do with my life at that time.

 

Fast forward to when I was about 35. I got a HORSE.  Suddenly there was something that was not easy, natural to me.  I was never an athlete but I had no desires in that area so I never tried any sports.  Some people are naturals on a horse while I had (and still have) a lot to learn.  I have improved quite a bit in the past years with my riding but honestly, I don't have a huge drive to learn to ride super well. I  want to ride well enough to enjoy it but no drive to ride to win, etc.

 

I was not lazy as I worked since I was 11 and all through highschool and college I paid my own way.

 

I don't know that I would really push him.  Not really any easy answers except I can say that I was/am a lot like your son.  I enjoyed things that came easily to me and just wasn't interested in those that didn't.

[linders]

After watching my two, I'm convinced that some are born with internal motivation and competitive spirit and some are not. DS13 - not. DS-10 - yes. And we can challenge and encourage DS13 in his efforts, but in the end, he will be who he will be.

[Geo]

Right, but that all came from you. Your parents didn't sit you next to a bright kid to motivate you. They didn't tell you hey you should study hard so you can beat him at something. We might be able to model and encourage, but I don't know that we can program our children to be the exact way we want them to be.

THIS. 'Nuff said.

[SeaConquest]

Make sure he does have something in his life that is challenging for him. I was one of those gifted kids, who didn't have to study at all until I got to my sophomore year in college. Then all heck broke loose. I hated not naturally just knowing everything. I was embarrassed, humiliated, and crushed when I failed a Statistics test. That had NEVER happened to me before. Hello? I didn't fail. I was smart. What the heck was this nonsense? You get the picture. :lol: Anyway, I was so used to not having to ever *try* to attain anything in life, that this failure devastated me for awhile. I literally had no frame of reference for it. I didn't know what to do with failure. Luckily, life provided me with many more opportunities to fail at things. :D I just wish my parents had given me a little dose of reality earlier on in life. There were literally hundreds of things I could have done as a kid that I would have sucked at :D , but because I resisted trying anything that I had an inkling I might not be stellar at from the get go, and my parents didn't push it...reality and I became acquainted at a much older age than was acceptable.

 

Don't be afraid to push him past his comfort zone. And do a little cheer when he struggles. It's good for him. Trust me.

All of this. I never had to work until I got to law school. When I received my first semester grades and saw letters I'd never seen before, I honestly handed my grades back to the Registrar and told her that she must have confused me with someone else. I drowned my sorrows in a ton of booze and antidepressants. You *really* don't want to be in your mid-20s the first time you struggle with something that has basically defined you to that point. It's ugly.

[Geo]

Love this.

 

I don't have a competitive bone in my body. Really I just don't. I often do put my best into things, but not because I hope to "win" or beat out someone else. I was never into sports because I want to have fun. I remember playing tennis and trying to hit the ball so the other person would be more likely to hit it back so we could keep it going and keep having fun. That's not so great if you are looking to beat someone in a game. I just never looked at it any other

 

 

Growing up EVERYONE told me to play basketball, as I was tall and loved team sports...I hated it. The pushing and grabbing, ugh! To this day I despise Easter egg hunts and Pinatas at parties. It's just all the grabbing and "getting"...so that the others don't. I've even gone so far as to teachi my kids these activities are ugly and self-centered. Oops, I guess my kids are slated to become underachievers, just like their mom. ;P

[musicianmom]

Dd8 has no competitiveness at all (except with her siblings, but I think sibling rivalry is a different animal). It's good and sweet right now, but I don't know how it will play out as she gets older. Can a non-competitive person be successful in musical theater (her current passion)?

[catz]

Dd8 has no competitiveness at all (except with her siblings, but I think sibling rivalry is a different animal). It's good and sweet right now, but I don't know how it will play out as she gets older. Can a non-competitive person be successful in musical theater (her current passion)?

My DS is 13, does theater/musical theater, and has been called for professional roles. In his mind, auditions are NOT competitive. Directors are just getting to know people and seeing who most fits their image of a particular character. I actually think that gives him an edge in some of these situations, because he does not understand nervous people at auditions and he goes in there as himself, take him or leave him. If he doesn't get a role, he just shrugs it off in 2 seconds and moves on. He doesn't obsess about who got the role or what he did wrong. He asks what other auditions are coming up. I would have been a mental case doing what he does at this age. LOL. :D He's requested voice lessons and dance lessons as a way of looking better at auditions, but he doesn't really compare himself to others. He has done theater/performance baased classes for a while. It's something HE wanted to do, because he enjoys this.

[abba12]

I don't think competetivness is a good thing to foster, I don't want my kids to compare themselves to others.

 

But what I DO want is for them to push themselves hard so they can reach their full potential and be truly proud of their acheivments because they worked to get there.

 

I was also one of those gifted kids. My crashing point wasn't actually studying at all since my post-high school courses were also relatively easy for me. My crashing point was just plain old life. Suddenly having to work to keep up with household chores, adult relationships, time for myself, and just generally the struggles of life as a very young married person and then a 'teen mother' is where I fell apart and had to learn the satisfaction of hard work, and that being good at something did not mean not working at it.

 

DH went through something similar.

 

As a result, one of the most important things in our homeschool is that our children are always being challenged. Maybe not in every thing at every time, but I aim to have them working right on the edge of their skill level regularly, whether that means a 1st grader doing 3rd grade math, or a 5th grader plodding through 2nd grade spelling but trying their hardest, I want to meet them where their skills are and encourage a good effort, no more, no less.

[Haiku]

Is there a way to make his spirit burn more, or is that just a personality trait that some people have and some don't?

It's a personality trait. Don't push him. I was just like your son. My father pushed me, and it caused damage to our relationship that took years to heal. I quit sports at 12 and didn't return to them until I was 36. We had a huge falling out over my chosen college major (too soft, according to him). None of it was worth it.

 

Your son has to own his own life. Don't make big deals out of things that are not big deals and ultimately don't matter.

[J-rap]

I think motivation is good to encourage in your children, not competition.  But, maybe motivation is what you really meant.  I wish my parents had pushed me to be more motivated.  I do think some kids seem to have more self-motivation than others... whether that is really just "in them" or something they absorb from their environment, I don't know.  My husband would gently challenge our children to set a goal a little further than what they were first aiming for.  And, he would make it seem fun!   He didn't pressure them, but it did open their eyes to thinking differently about what might be possible.  I think this has been a good thing for our children to learn. 

[TechWife]

Manufactured competition is highly over-rated. I say this because we can only control what we do, not what others do. Our best on any given day may not be enough to outshine another person's best on that that same day. Encourage him to work hard and praise him for his effort. Then, no matter where he falls in the final rankings, not only will he have gained character and perseverance, he will not evaluate himself in light of how others performed. 

 

Personally, I find the constant competitions that we thrust our children into to be totally appalling. We would crumble under similar pressure, yet our culture constantly places children in competitive athletic, social and academic settings. Recreational competition can be fun for an adult, but kids don't often see it this way when we place equal emphasis on all three settings, pushing them to excel or to win. 

[poppy]

If it comes really easy, you're not really learning, just consuming.  You have to flex a muscle to grow it, know what I mean?

I say this as someone who had  a really easy time in school, and in life, and my work ethic is something I still struggle with.

I don't think you have to make anyone competitive but making sure a kid is CHALLENGED is a gift to him.

[TechWife]

If it comes really easy, you're not really learning, just consuming.  

 

Um, no. Some things are easy to learn. Period.  That doesn't make them less valuable nor does it make the person who learned them easily into a consumer, it makes them smarter about that particular piece of information or skill than they were before they learned it. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Dd8 has no competitiveness at all (except with her siblings, but I think sibling rivalry is a different animal). It's good and sweet right now, but I don't know how it will play out as she gets older. Can a non-competitive person be successful in musical theater (her current passion)?

 

 

My DS is 13, does theater/musical theater, and has been called for professional roles. In his mind, auditions are NOT competitive.

 

While I agree with WoolySocks mostly, I do think it's important to note that the musical theatre audition experience is completely different for males and females.

 

Both of my kids are performers. My daughter is a driven, focused person who puts a lot of energy into constantly improving her skills. From my obviously flawed mom perspective, I also think she probably has more natural talent than my son in both music and acting, although he is a more accomplished dancer. She is thoughtful and intentional about every step of the audition process, from selecting materials to choosing what to wear. She works hard at seeking out and preparing for auditions, does everything every book tells her to do and is just plain excellent.

 

My son, on the other hand, stalls at preparing for auditions, often doesn't so much as run his monologues all the way through before showing up to audition. He has never picked up a book about how to audition and shows no interest in doing so. He doesn't have the natural musical ability my daughter has and puts much less effort into finding and working on audition material. While my daughter looks polished and professional before she leaves the house, my son often wanders into auditions looking somewhat rumpled.

 

Nonetheless, he has been significantly more successful than she has at getting roles, both in terms of number and in terms of the types of roles he is offered. She might go to 10 auditions and be offered one featured role and a place in a few ensembles. He wouldn't even need to go to that many auditions, because he'd be offered lead roles in three of the first five shows.

 

Watching her little brother get accepted to college after college and be offered performance scholarships at multiple schools is clearly driving my daughter a little batty. She's happy for him, but also aware that, no matter how hard she worked, she would likely not be handed those same opportunities.

 

Please don't get me wrong: I know both of them are talented. And my son is definitely charming on stage and a joy to work with (compared to other teenaged boys). I'm not suggesting he doesn't "deserve" the roles he gets. I'm just saying that, because there just plain aren't as many guys auditioning, there is so much less competition for them.

 

It's no wonder my son tends to be less nervous. He's been turned down so much less often that, realistically, he just has less to worry about going into an audition.

 

Since musicianmom's child is a girl, I think the reality is that she probably will need to be a little more competitive to be successful in performance. I'm not saying she needs to be ready to undermine or take out other girls. I'm just saying that she will likely have to work harder and get very comfortable about coping with rejection, because, statistically, she'll probably experience more of it than either WS's son or mine.

[lewber]

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful and wise answers. As some of you pointed out, I probably did mean internal motivation rather than competition just for the sake of winning. It's such a hard call how much to push. Some of you saying to challenge and push him, some of you saying your parents did and you hated it. Generally, we have prodded him if we think he is wavering, and if it's a flat out no, we let it drop.

A few years ago, we prodded him to continue and work much harder at basketball. If we had left it completely up to him, he would not have gone to the lessons or the camps. But now he is playing on a team where he is solidly in the top half of players and is enjoying it. He loves time with his friends, he loves playing more minutes vs sitting on the bench. And we have tried to remind him he would not be reaping these benefits if he wouldn't have worked so hard. (And yes I know that means elementary basketball is way too competitive around my area :huh: ) But I think he understands that his hard work did pay off.

We read that study many years ago that said to praise the effort and have really tried to do that. His teacher this year is better at making him work to his abilities and not just finding the easy answer but she's the first.

Not homeschooling, the academic challenges are harder. We have tried after schooling, but more work on top of school work doesn't seem to be a good method in our house. His teacher is substituting harder math for him this year, but I do need to find other academic challenges for him. Like many of you, I fell in the same category of not having to study or even really knowing how to until it was much later than it should have been.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. Always something to learn when it comes to parenting.

[wapiti]

I agree with the PPs that what you're really looking for is challenge, not competitiveness.  One of my favorite quotes (I think one could remove the word gifted as I think the basic idea of self-confidence coming from succeeding at challenging-to-them tasks applies to all kids):

 

When gifted children are not given opportunities to work at their own level and pace, they settle for less than their best. They learn to slide by without stretching themselves. Patterns of underachievement are subtle and cumulative; they become harder to overcome with each year. Students who attain A’s on their papers with no effort are not prepared to take more challenging classes in high school and college. When work is too easy, self-confidence to attempt difficult tasks is steadily eroded. A student who has the potential to win a scholarship to an Ivy League university settles for a B average at a state college

 

 

I never had to work until I got to law school.

Ditto.  I keep reminding myself of this on bad days when I stop and ask why I am making my kids learn something hard (we afterschool math).

[wapiti]

Not homeschooling, the academic challenges are harder. We have tried after schooling, but more work on top of school work doesn't seem to be a good method in our house. His teacher is substituting harder math for him this year, but I do need to find other academic challenges for him.

 

I'd try to get him to join the math club, if his school has one (believe me, I know how hard a task that is, LOL).  MathCounts is a fun way to stretch and a great educational experience.

[poppy]

Um, no. Some things are easy to learn. Period.  That doesn't make them less valuable nor does it make the person who learned them easily into a consumer, it makes them smarter about that particular piece of information or skill than they were before they learned it. 

 

Some things are easy to learn. But if getting the highest grade always comes "very easily" to him, do you think he is better prepared intellectually than a student who has to work hard to get the same grades? I would say he is probably not.

[catz]

Since musicianmom's child is a girl, I think the reality is that she probably will need to be a little more competitive to be successful in performance. I'm not saying she needs to be ready to undermine or take out other girls. I'm just saying that she will likely have to work harder and get very comfortable about coping with rejection, because, statistically, she'll probably experience more of it than either WS's son or mine.

I'm not saying theater kids of any gender don't have to try to improve at her craft and can just float along. My son has intentionally spent plenty of time on monologues, selecting music, taking audition work shops, he is in a pre-professional theater class right now that required a competitive audition process. He's taken piano for 8 years, so has an extremely strong music background. He started voice last summer.

 

I'm say HE doesn't think of it as competitive. He doesn't worry about what other people are doing. He's done enough large auditions that he's been rejected plenty. We are in the 2nd largest theater city in the country and it's a huge thing here. It's not unusual to have 3-5+X as many people show up for an audition as will be cast. He was just rejected for a really minor community theater production a couple weeks ago that seemed like a shoe in.

 

I do think there is something to be said about having a strong and calm sense of confidence and self going into audition situations. He is intrinsically motivated to do well. He just isn't sizing up the other kids when he gets there. He does often look rumpled at auditions, but he often lands roles for characters that are a bit rumpled. And really if you're talking about a boy, below college age, I think that's fairly typical. Most of the girls show up in obviously carefully selected clothes and dance shoes. Do the directors really care? I don't know. My son wears athletic pants and a theater t-shirt to almost every audition. I don't tell him what to wear. It's his deal. He's auditioning for something tonight and I'll drop him at the door. :) I've seen kids sobbing in hallways at auditions or looking like they were headed to the electric chair.

 

Theater is a finicky beast. I just do think intrinsically motivated kids can enjoy theater and being classically competitive against others during audition processes is not required. At least as an extra curricular activity at a pre-professional level. I'm sure the game changes quite a bit if you want to be a professional. My son's voice teacher is a 25 year old male performing artist

who just finished his masters last year. It's pretty interesting following his adventures.

[Catherine]

I think parents have some control over motivation up to about the age of 13. After that, the mold is pretty much made IMO. This is timely for me, first because I have a high school age nephew who is a total go-getter and I'm again wishing my own kids were more like this. Second, I'm glad I challenged my oldest academically, because now as a college student, he is NOT facing his first real challenge, and he is showing an admirable work ethic. I am so proud.

 

But some kids are naturally more driven and competitive than others. Just start early, and focus on challenging them, making them work.

[lewber]

I'd try to get him to join the math club, if his school has one (believe me, I know how hard a task that is, LOL).  MathCounts is a fun way to stretch and a great educational experience.

 

His middle school next year has a great math club. I guess I should have started one for his Elementary school!

[TechWife]

Some things are easy to learn. But if getting the highest grade always comes "very easily" to him, do you think he is better prepared intellectually than a student who has to work hard to get the same grades? I would say he is probably not.

 

Prepared for what? 

[poppy]

Prepared for what? 

 

Life? College and grad school? Professional work? Parenthood? A well-honed sense of intellectual curiosity? Take your pick.

[TechWife]

Some things are easy to learn. But if getting the highest grade always comes "very easily" to him, do you think he is better prepared intellectually than a student who has to work hard to get the same grades? I would say he is probably not.

 

 

Prepared for what? 

 

 

Life? College and grad school? Professional work? Parenthood? A well-honed sense of intellectual curiosity? Take your pick.

 

So, people can't be prepared for life if academics come easily to them. Wow. Life is more than academics and many things in life prepare us for our futures. There are many situations that shape character, not just academics (or sports for that matter). Life is a series of building blocks. Some people may find academics challenging, relationships easy. Others may find academics easy, relationships challenging. All are growing and changing - living life. That's what mature us, just living life. 

 

[poppy]

So, people can't be prepared for life if academics come easily to them. Wow. Life is more than academics and many things in life prepare us for our futures. There are many situations that shape character, not just academics (or sports for that matter). Life is a series of building blocks. Some people may find academics challenging, relationships easy. Others may find academics easy, relationships challenging. All are growing and changing - living life. That's what mature us, just living life. 

 

OP is indicating her son isn't challenged, academically and athletically. I posit that challenge has more value in shaping us than easy mastery.  I'm  not sure where we're differing here. And I'm really not sure how that earned an "um" and a "wow."

[TechWife]

If it comes really easy, you're not really learning, just consuming.  You have to flex a muscle to grow it, know what I mean?

I say this as someone who had  a really easy time in school, and in life, and my work ethic is something I still struggle with.

I don't think you have to make anyone competitive but making sure a kid is CHALLENGED is a gift to him.

 

 

Um, no. Some things are easy to learn. Period.  That doesn't make them less valuable nor does it make the person who learned them easily into a consumer, it makes them smarter about that particular piece of information or skill than they were before they learned it. 

 

 

OP is indicating her son isn't challenged, academically and athletically. I posit that challenge has more value in shaping us than easy mastery.  I'm  not sure where we're differing here. And I'm really not sure how that earned an "um" and a "wow."

 

Actually, my original reaction was to your original statement - that when something comes easily, it's consumption not learning. I differ on that - easy or not, all learning has value. That's my "um" - were I to see you in person, it would be offered with a smile & a giggle.

 

I agree with you that challenge does shape character, but we must always be aware that challenge comes to us in more areas than academics or sports. I also think that life comes with enough challenges that we don't need to go about creating artificial competitions or challenges just so someone can mature. A week working at the food pantry, dealing with real-world problems,  while perhaps not intellectually demanding, can do far more to shape character than a season on the soccer field or a 5 on an AP exam. 

 

I'm digressing a bit here, but I do think our culture's emphasis in recent years on sport and academic achievement in the school years isn't doing anyone any favors towards preparing them for life. After all, after the diploma is earned, it's not likely the boss is going to pat you on the back with a grade or a trophy every eighteen weeks. Employers tend to expect their employees to do good work because that's what they were hired for and are getting paid to do. 

[wapiti]

About the importance of challenge, IMO this isn't about character building, but brain building.  I mean that quite literally.  I was able to slide by in elementary school, high school and a selective college without really thinking.  (Sure, I'm inclined to be a slacker on top of it, but that's not what I'm talking about here.  I worked hard in other areas and especially worked too much at part-time jobs during college.)  I didn't know how to study.  I occasionally looked at the textbooks but rarely read at length.  I didn't know how to sit and think. Law school, and then working, made my brain hurt, albeit in a good way.  I remember one day in my office, I sat with my head in my hands, because the whole brain was working and I was overcome, LOL...  Not only would that have been so much easier had I been sufficiently challenged growing up, but I have big regrets about what I might have learned if I hadn't been able to slide by starting in elementary school.  If I had actually turned on my brain back when I had more options, who knows what might have happened.

 

For another fun quote that seems to describe what I'm talking about, albeit from a confidence angle rather than a brain-building angle, I'll turn to Rusczyk:

 

Part of the problem also is that they develop a perfectionist streak. How many of your children are perfectionists, and it drives them nuts when they don’t get one hundred percent?  They have to get over that. We don’t want them to get over that by slacking off. We want themto get over that by being presented with more meaningful challenges, because if you’re always getting a hundred percent on everything, you are not learning efficiently enough. You’re not learning as fast as you can and you’re not learning how to do things you haven’t seen before. What happens is just what we saw with my classmate. If the first time they can’t do something is college, they get so used to just being able to do everything because they’re “smart,†that once they can’t do something, they figure, “I’ve hit the wall. I can’t do this anymore. I’m quitting.†That’s another thing that the tyranny of 100% encourages in students. It encourages them to think, “I can do all this because I am so smart,†and once you can’t do it, then you’re done, while smarter people can go on. That’s just not the case.

[TechWife]

About the importance of challenge, IMO this isn't about character building, but brain building.  

 

For another fun quote that seems to describe what I'm talking about, albeit from a confidence angle rather than a brain-building angle, I'll turn to Rusczyk:

 

 I think this quote demonstrates character building - the character trait of perseverance.