Seasider Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I have suddenly become responsible for the home management of an elderly relative. There are some major issues that must be addressed. There's a roach problem. I plan to have a professional come in and treat the attic. I need a bug killer for lower levels that will be effective but not be dangerous to the homeowner's small dog. I was thinking something with boric acid but don't think that would be something I could use considering this animal. The other problem is feral cats. Homeowner started feeding stray cats and there are currently 6-8 feral cats that show up looking for a twice a day buffet. I will do my best to stop feeding them while the homeowner is away for medical rehab (3-6 weeks), but another relative believes it to be her responsibility to continue this practice as the homeowner wishes. I would like to place/spray some kind of deterrent in the feeding area. Hopefully between a repellant and very short rations this problem can be dispelled. These are just two of many issues. I told dh I feel like Noah must have felt the day God told him to build the ark. I would like to hear any suggestions you have for these issues. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Search online for food grade diatomaceous earth. It's quite cheap. I just sprinkle the powder in nooks and crannies where I have spied roaches and it's kept them away so far. I also have orange oil based pesticides but have not used them yet. Both DE and orange oil are supposed to be dog safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You may have a very hard time convincing the feral cats to leave. Cats are territorial creatures. Every instinct tells them not to leave their territory. In your shoes I'd Google "feral cat assistance [and your city/state]". Often feral cat assistance groups will only help if a person agrees to continue providing food for the feral colony. If so, then the group will come in and humanely trap the cats, spay or neuter them and return them (typically referred to as TNR or trap/neuter/release). Since there is no more breeding, the colony will eventually die out. But different groups have different policies and procedures. I'd Google to see what help is available in your area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineP Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I second the idea about finding a place to help with the feral cats. Not feeding them sounds like a cruel option if they are used to being feed by the person living there and his wishes are for that to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Your relative took responsibility for the feral cats when she or he started feeding them. It would be cruel to discontinue the feeding, as well as disrespectful to your relative's wishes. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to be away from home, receiving medical treatment, only to hear that cats for whom you've been caring are now being denied food. If you can find assistance to get the cats spayed and neutered, that would help. Calling animal control would likely only result in the feral cats being trapped and killed. Most shelters don't rehome feral cats. I'm sure this is a stressful situation for you. I think it's admirable for you to help your relative, but please don't distress her by attempting to run off the cats she cares for. If another relative is willing to feed the cats, let her take care of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I'd try to trap the cats and get them neutered. Then let them go back to their wild ways without being able to make 500 new cats. I'd relocate the dog and get the home professionally treated for roaches while she's in rehab. If there's a true infestation, they're nasty and hard to eradicate. You can have a deep cleaning done before she and the dog return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Sorry, folks. The cats have got to go. I am dealing with an extraordinarily complicated situation beyond explaining fully here. I am not asking if I should interfere. It is my responsibility to be involved and I am seeking help. Sorry if some misunderstood the question to be "whether or not I should" do anything. It was a plea for help. Sorry if I sound frustrated - I am! Thanks to those who mentioned trapping/finding someone to help trap. I will look into that. Any other ideas would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Trap- neuter-release is effective to stop overpopulation. It will not remove your cats, but not feeding them probably will also not. I'm sorry, but the elderly relative started caring for them and it seems very cruel to stop without his/her express consent. If they "have to go", trap them and take them to a shelter, where they will be euthanized, as feral cats do not make good house cats. It is humane, at least, but if was your relative, I'd be pretty pissed. If it were me, I'd take the dog to my house whilst the relative is hospitalized and use serious pesticides on the roaches. Not a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel TX Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I understand that when you have to care for an aging relative who has health problems, the last thing you need is feral cats added to a heavy load of responsibilities. You are making tough choices, and I want to encourage you that you seem to have healthy boundaries. For the roaches, I would have the professional do the entire house and vacate the dog if necessary. Check under the sink and in the back of the pantry and other low places that an elderly person would have a hard time reaching. I found a 10-year-old bag of cat food at my grandmother's house. I would pull out the appliances too and clean under them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Trap- neuter-release is effective to stop overpopulation. It will not remove your cats, but not feeding them probably will also not. I'm sorry, but the elderly relative started caring for them and it seems very cruel to stop without his/her express consent. If they "have to go", trap them and take them to a shelter, where they will be euthanized, as feral cats do not make good house cats. It is humane, at least, but if was your relative, I'd be pretty pissed. If it were me, I'd take the dog to my house whilst the relative is hospitalized and use serious pesticides on the roaches. Not a fan. :iagree: And, I'd be very careful if you are going into that house right now. You don't want to bring any visitors home to infest your own house. Do NOT bring home anything from that house. BTDT after helping a relative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 If you can share your general location, that might allow us to find a feral cat project near you. If they know the cats have to go, hopefully they would have someone who could come in and help you make that happen in the best way. Yes, a feral cat group may be able to trap and move the cats to another feral colony. This is usually only done as a last resort, and it of course depends on whether or not the group has somewhere else the cats can go. Unfortunately, it will be very hard on the cats and on your relative, but it is better than euthanasia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You could try using some urine/repellant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Not to be tacky, but if the numbers of the *female* cats were to go to zero, there would still be cats, just not reproducing cats. Maybe that way the feeding relative wouldn't notice the slight change? And for the poor dog, I can't imagine leaving a dog trapped in a house with roaches, ack! I'd take him to the vet and get him washed thoroughly and board him for a couple days while you get the house cleaned out and properly pesticided. Bless you for doing this hard work for your relative! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingiguana Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Our experience with urine repellent is that even house cats just find it super intriguing. So I'm doubting it would scare off feral cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Make sure the cats are truly feral. Our elderly neighbor likes to feed the neighborhood cats, including the pets -- the people across the street give her food to feed their cat when he comes to her house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Your relative took responsibility for the feral cats when she or he started feeding them. It would be cruel to discontinue the feeding, as well as disrespectful to your relative's wishes. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to be away from home, receiving medical treatment, only to hear that cats for whom you've been caring are now being denied food. I agree that forcing the cats to move on is cruel. There are people out there who want to help with this situation. Start with the SPCA and post a question about where to find help on City Data. Your relative is attached to the cats. Feral cats being fed still have full personalities and can be wonderful -- if, yes, standoffish -- to the person feeding them. I'm betting she's attached. I think boarding the dog while the house is treated is an excellent idea. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I get that you're saying you don't want the cats there, but I don't know that you can make them leave in any kind of humane way. I'd love for my alley cats not to hang out in backyard too. But it ain't gonna happen. Instead, I am glad they're spayed and neutered by a local organization that captures and releases them. One solution may be to feed them elsewhere if they specifically cannot hang around the house for some reason. And, of course, you can stop feeding them, as that's your right. But if the shelter won't come take them away then I agree with others that it's cruel. The shelters here don't pick up the feral cats and instead support the efforts of organizations that try to control their population because they're not adoptable animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Unexpected Party Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 From my experience in slowly taking over the responsibilities for an elderly management, I think the following: Simplifying your life is very important. Hire out where you can. Eliminate things that distract you from the must-dos. The feral cats are one of those things. You must provide support for your relative and you must do so in a way that preserves your energy so you can do so for as long as is necessary. If someone has offered "let me know what I can do to help" have them make the calls to see what is available in the area to deal with feral cats. You have too much else to do. Roaches: DE can be bought at feed/garden supply stores as well as some garden supply sections of box stores. The stuff I get for parasite control in the chicken coop is food grade, which would be pet safe, and I get where I buy my feed (Agway, Blue Seal, or TSC). I did not use this in my relative's place as the apartment complex treated for it and we managed it in other ways, but if you are looking for it, that's where I find it. Although my relative's apartment complex was routinely treated for cockroaches, they were never truly gone. We kept no food outside of the fridge or sealed containers. If you need a compost bin there are some that go in the freezer. You will need to check everywhere. Eventually the last stronghold was the thing that held the water vessel for the humidifier. Ew. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Seasides, I would board the dog with its vet for a thorough check-up & cleaning. If there is an infestation of roaches, the dog could very well become sick from or be a vector of disease to which your elderly, presumably medically fragile relative would be susceptible from the roaches and whatever other wee (& not so wee) beasties have also decided to make that house a home. As far as the feral cats, they can be difficult to get rid of. Call around; there may be an organization which will point you in the right direction. You have no judgment for me about doing what you need to with regard to the cats. Have the exterminator treat the entire house, including attic, basement, cupboards, pantries, bedrooms, & every nook and cranny he finds. It may take more than one treatment. Do this while the dog is being boarded. Since you alluded to many issues, let me suggest that you obtain a durable power of attorney and medical power of attorney, especially if these issues have a possibility of being longer term than you might anticipate. If your relative is amenable, so much the better. Having these will make your life immeasurably easier. Good luck to you! I know through personal experience that this can be very difficult and painful on many levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Sorry, folks. The cats have got to go. I am dealing with an extraordinarily complicated situation beyond explaining fully here. I am not asking if I should interfere. It is my responsibility to be involved and I am seeking help. Sorry if some misunderstood the question to be "whether or not I should" do anything. It was a plea for help. Sorry if I sound frustrated - I am! Thanks to those who mentioned trapping/finding someone to help trap. I will look into that. Any other ideas would be appreciated. Ya know, there was a thread the other day about feeling like you live on another planet from some people here, and this has definitely hit that note for me. I'm with you, it is NOT your responsibility to keep feeding the cats. I also disagree with the assertion that it's cruel to stop. Since when did it become humanity's job to keep all wild animals alive? These are, indeed, wild animals. Wild animals will adapt or die. Or more accurately, they'll adapt, and eventually they'll all die. Animals die people, it's not our job to keep them all alive. As for your situation, my grandparents used a high pitched sound box to deter cats from spraying their front porch, but that might not work for the dog. I may be way off here, but I think I've heard of places that sell coyote pee, or something like that? I thought it was to deter deer. Definitely call a ferrel cat group if there's one in your area. For the roaches, I think you should hire a company to do the whole house if you can afford it. These companies are used to dealing with pets, and they'll know how to treat without the dog getting hurt. Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Ya know, there was a thread the other day about feeling like you live on another planet from some people here, and this has definitely hit that note for me. I'm with you, it is NOT your responsibility to keep feeding the cats. I also disagree with the assertion that it's cruel to stop. Since when did it become humanity's job to keep all wild animals alive? These are, indeed, wild animals. Wild animals will adapt or die. Or more accurately, they'll adapt, and eventually they'll all die. Animals die people, it's not our job to keep them all alive. I agree that the relative didn't necessarily have a responsibility to begin feeding the cats, although it was a kind thing to do. However, the fact is, she did begin feeding them, and they now are her responsibility. No one has said it's "humanity's job to keep all wild animals alive." We are talking about specific cats who have become dependent on a food source, and it is cruel to stop feeding them, particularly in the winter. These cats will feel hunger and anxiety if their food is removed, just as an indoor pet would. We could say "it's not our job" to help any living creature because hey, "animals die," but I find that attitude lacking in compassion. I've no desire to start an argument, and I don't mind you feeling like I'm from another planet ;), but it's distressing to me when people don't seem to care if animals suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd293 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 We used to use little 'tablets' for the cockroaches - they were placed in cupboards and under furniture and really wouldn't have been in places accessible by a dog. I assume they were boric acid based. Really, whether you're spraying surface spray or putting down bait, cockroaches tend to like to hide, so I'd focus on those areas, and the dog is unlikely to be affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I cannot believe all the people so concerned about the feral cats. they are PESTS just as roaches are. Nobody has a problem with exterminating the roaches. Feral cats are a way bigger pest, they need to be put down. For the people so concerned about the pest feral cats, do a bit of goggling about what is happening in Australia because of feral cats. there are whole species of animals becoming extinct because of them,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I don't think its your responsibility to keep feeding the cats. Definitely call around to try to find a place that will help you with them. But don't feel bad about not continuing to feed them. It's unfortunate that they will most likely suffer but don't take that burden on yourself. There are more important things for you right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I did not mean to assign a value judgement to the feral cats, when I said euthanizing them was humane, I meant it. It is. But just because it's humane doesn't mean the relative in question is going to be okay with it, by taking the action of caring for the cats he/she has demonstrated a level of attachment to them. I'm not sure being elderly or ill means the same thing as relinquishing all choice over the care of animals, and it is something to consider. I know I'd be flat pissed if someone euthanized my pets because I couldn't care for them due to age or illness- it is important to consider the wishes of the relative, it isnt really about the cats. There are "more important things"...but this may also be quite important to the relative, and if so, options exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I agree that the relative didn't necessarily have a responsibility to begin feeding the cats, although it was a kind thing to do. However, the fact is, she did begin feeding them, and they now are her responsibility. No one has said it's "humanity's job to keep all wild animals alive." We are talking about specific cats who have become dependent on a food source, and it is cruel to stop feeding them, particularly in the winter. These cats will feel hunger and anxiety if their food is removed, just as an indoor pet would. We could say "it's not our job" to help any living creature because hey, "animals die," but I find that attitude lacking in compassion. I've no desire to start an argument, and I don't mind you feeling like I'm from another planet ;), but it's distressing to me when people don't seem to care if animals suffer. We had one "feral" cat that came to our house when we moved into it this last fall. We never fed it, the homeowners were gone for a month before we got here, and it didn't stop coming until over 3 months later. This is not unusual. When I talked with friends about the cat, a few had similar stories that it took about 3 months for the cat(s) to give up and go elsewhere. I feel horrible having not fed the cat, but there are a lot of cirucumstances around issues like this, and for us it was what seemed to be the best choice. We also did try around to have it moved. The SPCA was full. The local cat groups wouldn't take it. We were told we could keep calling and a space might open up - but then we'd have to catch the thing and bring it in ourselves...on the day there was space - or it might be full again. But we weren't feeding it, so its visits were dwindling. We would have paid for neutering and what have you, but anyways, there were issues with this cat and our dogs and anyways, it was such a lose-lose situation. I'm still a little bitter over the previous homeowners who would leave a cat like that and put us in the position of having to make crappy choices. We tried to find people to adopt it, but that didn't work either. So, OP, aside from catching them and putting them down, it will likely be very hard to get rid of them in 3-6 weeks. But maybe you have better shelters around you who are more willing to help. I toyed with the idea of a motion-detecting sprinkler. I have heard they work for keeping them out of gardens. If the cat wouldn't have left this winter (or if it is back in the spring) we would (will) try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Ya know, there was a thread the other day about feeling like you live on another planet from some people here, and this has definitely hit that note for me. I'm with you, it is NOT your responsibility to keep feeding the cats. I also disagree with the assertion that it's cruel to stop. Since when did it become humanity's job to keep all wild animals alive? These are, indeed, wild animals. Wild animals will adapt or die. Or more accurately, they'll adapt, and eventually they'll all die. Animals die people, it's not our job to keep them all alive. Best wishes! If you were within arm's length, I would hug you til it nearly hurt. Seriously. Thank you. If y'all had even half an idea of what I've been up to the last 5 days, you'd likely be embarrassed for implying that I lack compassion. Honestly, just...ouch. Nonetheless, my restless mind would not let me sleep a wink after falling into bed at 2:30am. Was I being heartless with regard to the cats, I asked myself. So I picked up my gadget and started googling, using terms some of you have suggested. Come to find out, seems there was a big stray cat kerfuffle after the last major hurricane to hit the area. Someone in this town started feeding strays and ended up generating a sizeable feral colony. A neighborhood child was injured by one of these cats and became seriously ill from a cat borne disease. The city then passed an ordinance prohibiting the feeding of ferals and strays. To do so now requires a permit. Obtaining the permit involves the applicant (at personal cost) to arrange for the trapping, sterilization and ear-notching of each cat. Each must then be returned to the original location where the colony manager must continue to feed them at that location until the end of their natural lives. Sound like something I've got time for? You understand how long cats live? They will outlive the homeowner, should this person even be able to return home and continue feelings. As it stands, we are one nosy neighbor away from a police report. I definitely don't have time for that. I have found a lot of great resources by following some of the search terms shared. I will try some of the urine deterrent and hope that helps. Like the motion sprinkler idea, too. And for the other beasties, DE! Yay! That is a terrific idea. I will call on professionals for a pet safe all house treatment and call the regular groomer to see if the dog can be boarded when I bring her in for her regular appointment. I spent much of the day scrubbing and bleach-washing half the kitchen, need to get that finished. Between what I found there and the two bags of spilled and open cat food I found in the garage, there's been a bit of a buffet going on. I am closing the smorgasbord and hope the pro treatment will help a lot. I will put the DE around in places the pup might get into once she returns. Thanks for the ideas. I'm feeling a better grasp on things. For those who suggested getting outside help for various challenges, so as to make the best use of my time by outsourcing, I really appreciate that encouragement. I am a grab the bull by the horns and just do it sort of person; I needed the reminder that I can serve as sort of a general contractor wherever possible and don't actually have to personally accomplish each task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_JWM Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 What a tough situation you're in - I'm sorry. Since you mention another relative who wants to continue feeding the cats, can she take care of spaying and neutering them? After that, whether either of you continues to feed them is up to you, I think. Preventing tyem from reproducing is the important thing. In case you haven't found this page: http://www.pfaonline.org/resources/low-cost-spay-neuter/ I wish you the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I'm not sure being elderly or ill means the same thing as relinquishing all choice over the care of animals, and it is something to consider. I know I'd be flat pissed if someone euthanized my pets because I couldn't care for them due to age or illness- it is important to consider the wishes of the relative, :iagree: OP, perhaps your relative would be willing to pay for the trapping, sterilization, and ear notching. If she's not able to do so, maybe a local group could help. Maybe the other relative (who wants to continue the feeding) would be willing to make the calls and arrangements. I think it's compassionate of you to help your relative, and I understand how time-consuming and stressful this is for you. However, if this is something you could possibly delegate (to your other relative and/or to a local feral cat group), it seems like that would be a win/win situation, for your relative and for the cats. I'm sorry you're having a difficult time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 If you were within arm's length, I would hug you til it nearly hurt. Seriously. Thank you. If y'all had even half an idea of what I've been up to the last 5 days, you'd likely be embarrassed for implying that I lack compassion. Honestly, just...ouch. Nonetheless, my restless mind would not let me sleep a wink after falling into bed at 2:30am. Was I being heartless with regard to the cats, I asked myself. So I picked up my gadget and started googling, using terms some of you have suggested. Come to find out, seems there was a big stray cat kerfuffle after the last major hurricane to hit the area. Someone in this town started feeding strays and ended up generating a sizeable feral colony. A neighborhood child was injured by one of these cats and became seriously ill from a cat borne disease. The city then passed an ordinance prohibiting the feeding of ferals and strays. To do so now requires a permit. Obtaining the permit involves the applicant (at personal cost) to arrange for the trapping, sterilization and ear-notching of each cat. Each must then be returned to the original location where the colony manager must continue to feed them at that location until the end of their natural lives. Sound like something I've got time for? You understand how long cats live? They will outlive the homeowner, should this person even be able to return home and continue feelings. As it stands, we are one nosy neighbor away from a police report. I definitely don't have time for that. I have found a lot of great resources by following some of the search terms shared. I will try some of the urine deterrent and hope that helps. Like the motion sprinkler idea, too. And for the other beasties, DE! Yay! That is a terrific idea. I will call on professionals for a pet safe all house treatment and call the regular groomer to see if the dog can be boarded when I bring her in for her regular appointment. I spent much of the day scrubbing and bleach-washing half the kitchen, need to get that finished. Between what I found there and the two bags of spilled and open cat food I found in the garage, there's been a bit of a buffet going on. I am closing the smorgasbord and hope the pro treatment will help a lot. I will put the DE around in places the pup might get into once she returns. Thanks for the ideas. I'm feeling a better grasp on things. For those who suggested getting outside help for various challenges, so as to make the best use of my time by outsourcing, I really appreciate that encouragement. I am a grab the bull by the horns and just do it sort of person; I needed the reminder that I can serve as sort of a general contractor wherever possible and don't actually have to personally accomplish each task. I'm sorry you're going through all this. Do what you think needs to be done. No judgement from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Thank you for taking the time to care for your family. I have walked that path and I know you must be exhausted. Please do not feel any guilt at all--AT ALL--for not caring for the feral cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Shared news of the city ordinance with relative who wanted to feed. Once I was able to say "X cats times $XXX plus YOU have to agree to feed them til they all die of old age," she saw the light. Yesterday I removed the furniture they'd been using to lounge on and the area was washed with a disinfectant. I haven't seen a single cat this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Shared news of the city ordinance with relative who wanted to feed. Once I was able to say "X cats times $XXX plus YOU have to agree to feed them til they all die of old age," she saw the light. Yesterday I removed the furniture they'd been using to lounge on and the area was washed with a disinfectant. I haven't seen a single cat this morning. Glad you got some progress. Don't feel guilty about the cats. The guilt is all on previous owners who did not spay neuter or care. I hope the roach problem works out quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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