How do I get my kids on board with the new anti-cancer diet I'm trying to introduce?

[mazakaal]

Back in October my husband was diagnosed with cancer. The tumor was removed but the cancer had spread to the wall of the bladder, so he's now going through chemo and will have another surgery in March to remove the bladder and a few other bits. This has of course been a huge shock to us, but we are very hopeful that it will all be taken care of and he will move on with a full life after.

 

As a result of the cancer I've been doing a lot of research and have discovered that there is significant evidence of a link between cancer and the typical western diet. I'm not going completely vegan or even totally vegetarian, but I am seriously limiting the amount of meat that we eat. I've started making a lot more meals with lentils and beans and loads of vegetables. I actually love most of the new recipes that I've been making.

 

Unfortunately, the kids are not nearly as excited about the new diet. We've been totally honest with the kids about the situation with dh's health, but I don't think they're taking it very seriously because there is a good prognosis. And as a result they don't really see a need for the diet change. I don't want to use scare tactics to get them on board, but from what I've been reading, the health implications of continuing to eat as we have been are pretty scary.

 

I would love any advice you can ofter on how to get the kids on board with this, particularly if you have done it yourself (for whatever reason - cancer or something else) with older kids. Mine are 17, 15, 11 and 10.

 

Thanks.

[ashfern]

At their ages I would have them help you come up with recipes using the newer foods. My 8 yo loves lentils now but didn't want to even try them when we first started cooking with them. I'd try to transition them into the new foods by making things that are similar in taste to what they're used to eating. I have a recipe for Sloppy Lentils that the kids love but DH doesn't. He prefers meat but I'm the cook so he knows not to complain too much. :lol:

[Laurie4b]

I think that your biggest bang for your buck against cancer is to increase fruits and vegetables,, so that's where I would focus. If they are eating 8-9 servings of fruits and veges per day, I'd call that good. I would let them have their meat even if you and dh want to go to beans. Let your bean dish be a side dish for them until they like it.  Free range no antibiotic chicken is best as is grassfed, no antibiotic beef. Salmon and other fish are good. I am also a cancer survivor and read a lot of nutrition literature. I would also focus  on contaminants like BPA in cans, etc.

[redsquirrel]

Well, first of all I am sorry you are dealing with this. I am glad the prognosis is good, but I am sorry you are having to deal with it at all.

 

As a side note, have you read the book "Living Downstream". I believe she is (was?) dealing with a similar cancer, which is why it came to mind. Another option is "Forks over Knives" both the documentary (streaming on Netflix) and the book (has recipes)

 

Anyway, I suggest you make changes for your kids slowly. Start with some small changes like trying a new dish once or twice a week. and taking other things out of rotation. You could start focusing in on meals at first. For example, introduce one new breakfast or change of offerings and keep going until you are all eating different sorts of breakfast food. Then move on to lunches etc. Or go by type of food, so start with cutting dairy (off the top of my head) and start using almond milk instead and finding things instead of cheese etc. Or a combo of both as it works for you.

 

And don't try making 'fake' versions of a beloved food, at least not for a long time. Vegan 'cheese' is NOT cheese. If you love cheese, then vegan cheese won't quite suit if you aren't feeling the vegan love. If you love hot dogs, then a tofu dog prob isn't going to make you happy. For a while at last make new favorites. After a while, when tastes have changed, you can give substitutes a try, but better to err on the side of caution with that.

 

There are so many really great vegan cookbooks around that I am sure you can find lots of new things to make your family happy.

 

Mostly what I am trying to say is to go slowly but don't stop. And have a positive attitude. I think saying "We eat this now because it is a better choice" goes over better in the long run than "we don't eat that because It Can Kill You".

[Mergath]

I would stop trying to market it to them as an anti-cancer diet, and focus on the positive improvements the diet will make for them now.  When you're that age, something like getting cancer seems like it's a thousand years away.  They're probably thinking, "Well I don't have cancer, why do I have to eat all the rabbit food?"  Instead, explain to them that they'll have more energy and feel much better and more alert if they eat whole foods.  Explain that it will make their bodies stronger, whereas processed food will make them weaker and they'll get sick more often.  Stuff like that.

 

And be sure to take each of their dietary needs into consideration, too.  Some people need more iron and do better with more meat.  Some people don't need as much and feel better with a diet of mostly fruits and veg.  It's going to be hard to convince them to get on board if the new diet makes one of them anemic. ;)

[73349]

Especially if your kids are very active, given their ages, make sure they are getting enough fat and total calories. I have tried reducing my own meat intake and once I got down to a couple of servings a week, I had trouble getting enough to eat without just having junk/sugar in its place. (I have a fast metabolism.) You may need to make them additional food that your DH does not eat.

[mazakaal]

Ashfern, I'd love your recipe for sloppy lentils ifyou don't mind sharing it. :-) I'll try to get some suggestions from the kids as well.

 

Laurie, I started our transition with smaller meat portions and larger veg portions. Maybe I should go back to that. I've started juicing to increase veg consumption too. And I'll look for antibiotic-free chicken and beef. I already buy my sausage from friends who raise their own pigs and make the sausage themselves. Unfortunately dh doesn't like fish. I'd appreciate any nutrition literature you can recommend.

 

Redsquirrel, I've never heard of Living Downstream, but I'll check it out. I've watched Forks Over Knives and just got the recipe book. I haven't made huge changes to breakfast and lunch yet. I've been focusing on dinner. I did stop buying lunchmeat, but that wasn't a big deal for the kids as they were never big fans of lunchmeat. I guess I need to just slow down on the changes. Thanks.

[redsquirrel]

Especially if your kids are very active, given their ages, make sure they are getting enough fat and total calories. I have tried reducing my own meat intake and once I got down to a couple of servings a week, I had trouble getting enough to eat without just having junk/sugar in its place. (I have a fast metabolism.) You may need to make them additional food that your DH does not eat.

 

But really, that's not a big deal is it? I mean, my boys are very active (ballet dancers) and I don't have to put any thought into making sure they eat enough. So, I keep some homemade hummus and baby carrots in the fridge and my son eats some before class. Or they have refried beans on a whole wheat tortilla. Or apple slices with peanut butter. Or makes some oatmeal with blueberries. Nothing to worry about. All the other parents of teens seem to keep extra snacks etc in the house.

 

My boys have been raised vegetarian and they are well fed and very healthy. They are slim, because they are dancers and because of genetics, but by no means underweight. I have no problem feeding them an adequate amount of healthy and filling food.I am sure it is no more difficult for me to feed my kids than for any other mother of growing athletic boys.

 

I am sure she knows that her growing kids might need to eat more food than the (possibly) more sedentary non-growing people in the house. Her choice of diet doesn't seem to merit a special warning.

[mazakaal]

Mergarth, I have tried to explain that it is a healthier choice for everyone, cancer or no, but it hasn't made much of an impact on them. :-(

 

Whitehawk, I'll try to have more available for the kids. Unfortunately, dh will probably tuck into some of the kids' snacks. He's not known for having great self-control with food. :-(

[Ellie]

Your house, your menu. They don't have to be on board; they just have to eat what you prepare. When they are out on their own, they can eat whatever they want.

 

[mazakaal]

Redsquirrel, I think the problem is getting them to eat the healthier snacks when they haven't grown up with it. I've been keeping almonds, cashews, raisins, dried apricots, fresh fruit, hummous, and peanut butter in the house for snacks. Unfortunately, other than the fresh fruit and peanut butter, they haven't been too excited.

[kewb]

We are going through a diet change here too due to dh's health.  Gluten and dairy free.  My kids are 15 & 13.  I simply sat them down and told them that in order for dad to be successful with his new diet needs we all have to do it.  It is cruel to eat whatever we want and he has to sit there with his own meal (plus, I am not a short order cook).  It is also a way for us to show support for what he going through.  I also will not tolerate any complaining about the new diet.  This has to be done so dad can get better.  If you feel the need to complain go tell it to your friends.

 

I can't say mine are thrilled to the gills but they are going along with it.  It helps that they know they can eat what they want when they are out of the house.

 

As a side note, today I made the last of the breaded chicken nuggets from the freezer and made some gluten free ones for dh.  Both kids were all over dh's.  Almond flour, millet flour, a little tapioca starch.  Season with garlic, salt, paprika, and pepper.  Drizzle with coconut oil and bake for 14 minutes in a preheated 450 degree oven.

[Rosie_0801]

Your house, your menu. They don't have to be on board; they just have to eat what you prepare. When they are out on their own, they can eat whatever they want.

 

Yeah. I'd tell mine they can eat whatever they like if they buy and cook it themselves.  Alternatively, my favourite children, you can take advantage of the free food and eat what I provide.

[mazakaal]

Kewb, how exactly do you 'not tolerate the kids complaining'? I've tried to be firm, "This is what we are eating because it is a healthier diet than what we've eaten in the past." And I've tried ignoring the complaints, but they still complain. Some have a harder time than others. My 15yo doesn't really complain at all. He eats whatever I serve and likes many of the meals, even if they're not what he would necessarily choose. My 11yo likes many of the new meals but complains anyway. I don't think she misses the meat so much as missing the cookies that used to be kept in the house to snack on. I do let her make treats, though. Yesterday she made jellies and today she made apple strudel. It's not like I'm completely cutting them off from all treats. The 10 year old has always been my pickiest eater, and he's probably had the hardest time. My 17yo has always been pretty picky too and he's not been too happy.

[mazakaal]

Sparkly unicorn, I'm like you. I know that I can put my foot down and cook what I want. I shouldn't let their complaints bother me. But they do.

[jenn-]

Your kids are all old enough to be sat down and explained that this is going to be the new way you all eat to try and make Dad and everyone else healthier now and in the future.  They don't have to be jumping up and down with joy for the new health food, but they have to realize that those are the foods being offered and they eat it or starve. 

 

I will also agree with the person up thread that said don't try to make direct replacements right away.  If you are going to switch from real hot dogs to fake hot dogs, wait a month or two between the last time you served the real ones and the first fake one you give them.  This is how it worked for my low carb switching.  Eating real ice cream one day to artificially sweetened stuff the next was yucky.  Wait until they are desperate for the appearance of the old food and suddenly they won't care it doesn't taste exactly the same.

[Ellie]

Kewb, how exactly do you 'not tolerate the kids complaining'? I've tried to be firm, "This is what we are eating because it is a healthier diet than what we've eaten in the past." And I've tried ignoring the complaints, but they still complain. Some have a harder time than others. My 15yo doesn't really complain at all. He eats whatever I serve and likes many of the meals, even if they're not what he would necessarily choose. My 11yo likes many of the new meals but complains anyway. I don't think she misses the meat so much as missing the cookies that used to be kept in the house to snack on. I do let her make treats, though. Yesterday she made jellies and today she made apple strudel. It's not like I'm completely cutting them off from all treats. The 10 year old has always been my pickiest eater, and he's probably had the hardest time. My 17yo has always been pretty picky too and he's not been too happy.

 

People who complain can leave the room without finishing their food. They don't get to fix anything else, either.

[simplemom]

In addition to above suggestions, I would incorporate a health class into your homeschool. Watching movies like Food, Inc, Forks Over Knives, Fat Sick and Nearly Dead, King Corn, The Gerson Miracle, and Supersize Me (I may be rusty on some of the titles). They may not agree with the nutritional opinion of the movies, but regardless it would be good for them to see nutritional documentaries from a new viewpoint other than the SAD diet that is the former norm for them and probably those around them. One side of me would say "I'm the mom and you will eat what I make and do it with a thankful heart or you won't eat, end of discussion" . The other part of me would say "I know you are used to eating the SAD way we used to eat and this new way is so abnormal to you, so therefore I will allow you to transition slowly into this new healthier diet." We were SAD eaters for most our lives. Now we are weird to our family, friends, doctors, and acquaintances because 75% of our diet is what you describe you are transitioning to.

 

I am sorry for your current trial and I pray that The Lord gives you and your family wisdom in the best foods to eat, in addition to giving your children grace in the new changes you are making in the interest of everybody's well being.

[ElizabethB]

A friend whose mom died of cancer has a big jar of candy, for them to put any candy they get at parties or whatever, when it is full she throws it all out and they get to buy a small toy or book. Her refrain is, the nicer the box is, the yuckier the food is for you. (Sugary cereals, etc.) Hers were younger when they started eating healthier, though.

[kewb]

I don't tolerate it by refusing to listen to it.  If they start in about something I tell them that this is what I have made.  Someone has taken the time to prepare a meal for you.  Say thank you.  If you truly do not like it, there is the kitchen and go have a bowl of cereal/yogurt/make a sandwich.  If the complainer persists I tell them they are excused.

If I am in a particularly good mood I might say "The complaint department is now closed.  If you have a complaint please fill out the complaint form and someone will get back to you at their earliest convenience."

 

Later, when I have calmed down from my own irrational response to a complaint I will reiterate why we are doing this and that it is to help their father.  That guy who has been sick for 2 years now and they love and want to get better.  Remember him?  Remember the fun guy he used to be.  Wouldn't you like that guy back?  Then help him.

[Rosie_0801]

Complainers should be taught the delicate art of analysing food. It's a good skill to have, and rather than offending my inner kitchen witch, it makes her happy.

[Joanne]

I wouldn't. Not "just" because the science backing up your choices is debatable. ;)

 

Your family is stresses, even with the good prognosis. And making major changes due to health or life crisises is a very expected and human response,

 

But for it to be successful, it requires buy in and also needs to emerge from the heart of the participant. If it starts from someone else, it needs to eventually become making changes for personal motivation.

 

Finally, I would not be comfortable marketing the changes ties to Dad's cancer. The psychological guilt over lapses or lack or motivation could be complicated. How will thy feel about themselves if they hate the changes or cheat?

 

I encourage you to make small, non extreme dietary changes. This really, truly is not the time to jump into major changes and expectations.

 

The research and desire to find a reason and avoid the cancer is expected and understandable.

But cancer is complex and multi-caused. Try to not reduce it to lifestyle choices.

[Cosmos]

Redsquirrel, I think the problem is getting them to eat the healthier snacks when they haven't grown up with it. I've been keeping almonds, cashews, raisins, dried apricots, fresh fruit, hummous, and peanut butter in the house for snacks. Unfortunately, other than the fresh fruit and peanut butter, they haven't been too excited.

 

What are the snacks they used to eat? Maybe we can help come up with healthier options that they'd enjoy more than the fruits and nuts. Whole grain breads and muffins maybe?

 

[Blessed Mommy]

People who complain can leave the room without finishing their food. They don't get to fix anything else, either.

Yes!  I completely agree, ESPECIALLY with older children!

 

Once, my 6 and 8 year old daughters complained about a dish I made, so my husband excused them from the table.  They were sent to bed without dinner.  And guess what?  They've NEVER complained again!  That's how you don't tolerate complaining!  We need to teach our children to be thankful for the food they are served and the fact that they have food to eat!  If they don't like what they're served, they don't have to eat it.  But that also means that they go without that particular meal.  They DO NOT get to fix themselves something different to eat.

[redsquirrel]

What are the snacks they used to eat? Maybe we can help come up with healthier options that they'd enjoy more than the fruits and nuts. Whole grain breads and muffins maybe?

 

 

I think that might be one way to start. Think about what they are missing and look around for a better alternative. Or ask them.

 

And some people just like to complain. The 17 year old should be taught better manners. Not that you haven't tried and I am sure when he isn't with family he is a prince, but he is old enough to keep it shut when he is talking to his mother. He might need to be reminded that you are a person with feelings and that this has been difficult on all of you. If he doesn't like it he can eat what he likes when he isn't with you, but he can deal with your house, your rules. I don't pull that one often, but at 17 I am inclined to cut to the chase.

 

And sometimes just making things yourself can make it a whole lot healthier. Cookies made from scratch by the kids are going to be a better choice than ones made shelf stable with god knows what.

 

And if they want chips, then plain corn or potato chips aren't the end of the world. Potato and oil, corn and oil. It's when you get into the 'cheeze' or 'cool ranch' flavours that things get weird. Plain corn chips (unsalted if possible) with hummus is a great step towards veggies and hummus.

 

I am not really sure what changes you are trying to make so it is difficult to make suggestions. It sounds like less meat and dairy and generally more whole food is your goal, but I don't know.

[BarbecueMom]

Yes! I completely agree, ESPECIALLY with older children!

 

Once, my 6 and 8 year old daughters complained about a dish I made, so my husband excused them from the table. They were sent to bed without dinner. And guess what? They've NEVER complained again! That's how you don't tolerate complaining! We need to teach our children to be thankful for the food they are served and the fact that they have food to eat! If they don't like what they're served, they don't have to eat it. But that also means that they go without that particular meal. They DO NOT get to fix themselves something different to eat.

But what if the dish was actually terrible? Does anyone go through a diet change without making a new recipe that tastes like, as my kids say, "orca poop"? I made a new dish with some of the wrong ingredients last week, and it didn't turn out well. I ate it, because it was (barely) edible to me, but not to the other four eaters in my house. Why would I tell my kids they had to eat it or go hungry, when DH and my mom could dump it out and make a sandwich?

 

Now DS4 will argue over everything you give him (he'd complain about chocolate for dinner, because he likes complaining more than food), but that's not what I'm imagining with a diet change. Some healthy recipes taste like garbage, and if you don't work with the assumption that there will be "misses", the changes will fail.

[mamaraby]

I wouldn't. Not "just" because the science backing up your choices is debatable. ;)

How is this helpful?

 

By far the key to long life/health is how many fruit and vegetables you eat with a close correlary to the amount of fiber you eat. The amount of fiber you eat is especially important because it feeds your gut bacteria which in turn effecta your immune system. The other thing that fiber gets you is full bellies so when it comes to keeping kids full, a good base of starch (whole grains, potatoes, squashes, etc) with an equally ample serving of vegetables is key.

 

As for snacks - I try to keep things available so I have one of those plastic food storage containers with the lock lids that I put a piece of paper towel in and then load one up with grapes/berries/sliced fruit that won't brown and another with sliced vegetables (english cucumber slices, red and green peppers, and carrot sticks). Then I have on hand whole fruits like bananas, apples, and the little oranges. The kids know that they are always welcome to eat from those boxes and as a secondary benefit, we all have easy access vegetables to stick on our sandwiches/wraps come lunch time.

 

You can always do something similar with nuts, but I find that these are easy for people to overeat so I usually aim for natural peanut butter/nut butter. You can also make your own oil free hummus - both the fat free vegan blog and Engine2/FOK have good recipes as has Isa Chandra Moskowitz's "Appetite for Reduction" which lines up more closely to FOK than her usual fare. We've often just used the Sabra hummus from the grocery store that my kids like better than the stuff I make at home. Another good recpsource is the Healthy Happy Librarian blog.

 

Beanitos bean chips aren't super terrible. They do have a bit more fat in them than baked chips, but they are lower in sodium and you do get some fiber/protein to go with it. The blender/food processor one ingredient banana ice cream is scoopable and quite "ice cream like" and you don't even have to get the fancy Yonanas machine.

 

As for kids complaining - sometimes something like watching FOK might help as would perhaps assigning other age appropriate reading like T. Colin Campbell's "Whole" for older ones. I fail at this plenty of times, but we mostly try to frame it as an issue of showing other human beings respect. Sometimes I also thnk it's helpful to frame it in the context of "when you say x, it makes me feel y" - especially with older kids. It hasn't cut down on complaints completely, but if it makes you feel any better, my kids complained equally about veg*n and omni meals.

 

It's probably one part change and one part them just being kids who have less control over many aspects of their life so things like food and keeping rooms clean tend to be sticking points because they can exert control. Maybe help encourage them to pair each complaint with a positive while also requiring complaints to be specific. For example, "I didn't like the bean burgers, they were too mushy, but I really like the baked fries" or even "I didn't like any of that, but thanks for making dinner for us Mom." But there's also nothing wrong with asking folks to keep their negative opinions to themselves because it is hard to feed a family and even harder when they seem less than appreciative for the work.

 

Finally, yes, sometimes getting kids involved in meal planning and meal prep helps. If I can't involve the kids then I try to include an equal mix of things I know they like and new things.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with changing ones way of eating in response to a health issue. Sometimes that helps us see things a bit clearer than we would otherwise. Hang in there. Time is also probably going to be a factor. The more time that goes on, the more normal things become.

 

I'm sorry about your husband's cancer. There's no two ways about it - cancer sucks.

[Rosie_0801]

Well there are complainers and then there are vomiters.  I've got a vomiter.

 

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said, but I can imagine how much fun that isn't.

[Susan C.]

:grouphug:

 

And if it tastes good, it usually is eaten! When mine were younger, I encouraged them to try things they thought they didn't like. I did make other food if they truly didn't like what was served, but it didn't happen often. Kids usually eat like parents.... at least that has been my experience. I just made a lentil soup (Whole Foods recipe Turkish Lentil Soup and used Whole Foods recipe for vegetable broth) that is to die for good. We usually don't get excited about a vegan dish, but this one is delicious. We did "unvegan" it by adding Greek yogurt, which made it even yummier.

 

Best wishes and good luck.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I have cancer (stage IV). Go for the New American Plate method/cookbook from AICR (good webiste and newsletter, too). They walk you through a transition period so the change is not so abrupt, and you still have variation to play with. Great source backed up by research, and the recipies rock.

[Joker]

I think the changes should be really small at first. They should keep trying your new dishes and maybe have them try a bit more each time, but couple that with something you know they like to eat. Mine often take a few times eating something new before they actually like it. I remember being the same way about a few things. The first time I tried sushi I couldn't eat more than one small bite because I didn't like it. I tried it again a few more times - a bit more each time, and now I love it.

 

Also, every body is different in what it needs. I have one dd who hardly ever eats red meat (just about once a month). She usually eats vegetarian or fish dishes and that's how she feels her best. My other dd is like me and we eat red meat often or we feel bad, and even with how often I eat it I still have to take B12 supplements.

 

I've never done the "you eat what I make or not at all" routine here. There were times they didn't want to eat, or didn't like, what I fixed and they just made themselves a sandwich instead. It's all worked out because now, at 11 and 13, they eat a varied and healthy diet and mealtimes were able to stay enjoyable.

[mirth]

I like this blog called http://www.itsnotaboutnutrition.com. I think she would warn against high stakes eating. My father died of cancer when I was a kid and there was a lot of questioning all around. Now, some people think that obesity, visceral "white" (vs "brown") fat cause a constant state of inflammation within the body which promotes cancer. This tack may put impressionable young people on another anti cancer path by purely restricting calories and starving themselves. I would read over Dina Rose's stuff and play up more fresh fruits and vegetables if only because they taste good and look pretty. I'm glad the kids' father, your husband, has a good prognosis!

[shukriyya]

But really, that's not a big deal is it? I mean, my boys are very active (ballet dancers) and I don't have to put any thought into making sure they eat enough. So, I keep some homemade hummus and baby carrots in the fridge and my son eats some before class. Or they have refried beans on a whole wheat tortilla. Or apple slices with peanut butter. Or makes some oatmeal with blueberries. Nothing to worry about. All the other parents of teens seem to keep extra snacks etc in the house.

 

 

These kinds of snacks, as healthy and wholesome as they sound, would never fly in this house of non-bean-loving huge eaters, one of whom is a dancer. I am at a loss as to how to satisfy the bottomless pits. I make a lot of grain free muffins, yogurt with fruit or all-fruit jams, smoothies, seaweeds, boiled eggs, celery w/cream cheese. But a lot of the time I feel :willy_nilly: trying to keep up with the appetites.

 

OP, no advice but :grouphug:

[Starr]

Kids don't like to think about cancer. It is too real and too scary. I would quit talking about food and slowly change what you cook and have available for snacks. Keep fresh fruit around. Don't freak out when they junk at the neighbors. I think by example and time their diet will change. I'm sorry you are going through this.  :grouphug:

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Kids don't like to think about cancer. It is too real and too scary. I would quit talking about food and slowly change what you cook and have available for snacks. Keep fresh fruit around. Don't freak out when they junk at the neighbors. I think by example and time their diet will change. I'm sorry you are going through this. :grouphug:

Yup. Moderation with an undercurrent pointing in the right direction is most likely to lead to lifelong habits. DD has a LOT to think about and work on with my cancer, so les stress is good. Slow and steady, and don't buy into hype.

[Mommyof4ks]

We changed our diet after my son had cancer, and it was a slow process. We still eat out some and we love ice cream every once in a while, but I try to stick with healthy food most of the time. We started with snacks. As we ran out of things in a box I replaced them with fresh fruits and veggies. Then I moved on to meals. We do not buy anything in a can, no broths or cream of anything soups, and so on, but instead I make my own to add flavor to beans. We still eat meat, but in small amounts and only pastured and free range animals when I cook at home (eating out is harder). I still have young kids, and they are growing and need more than veggies and soup for dinner.

 

Cancer is very complex, and our environment plays a big role as do viruses and bacteria, so if the kids are very resistant to the food changes maybe do away with as many plastics in your home as possible, make your own soaps and personal care products, and beef up your immune system to avoid illnesses. There is some very interesting research on all of that on several online medical journals.

[jenn-]

But what if the dish was actually terrible? Does anyone go through a diet change without making a new recipe that tastes like, as my kids say, "orca poop"? I made a new dish with some of the wrong ingredients last week, and it didn't turn out well. I ate it, because it was (barely) edible to me, but not to the other four eaters in my house. Why would I tell my kids they had to eat it or go hungry, when DH and my mom could dump it out and make a sandwich?

 

Now DS4 will argue over everything you give him (he'd complain about chocolate for dinner, because he likes complaining more than food), but that's not what I'm imagining with a diet change. Some healthy recipes taste like garbage, and if you don't work with the assumption that there will be "misses", the changes will fail.

 

That changes everything.  The only times I have ever let the kids have ever let the kids eat something different from us is when DH has made it truly too spicy for them to eat and I am the one that decides if it is too spicy (I know what they have eaten in the past without complaint).  If I found something barely passable to myself, I would show compassion to my children and not make them eat it.

 

[ashfern]

Ashfern, I'd love your recipe for sloppy lentils ifyou don't mind sharing it. :-)

 

Sloppy Lentils (adapted from Fresh from the Vegetarian Slow Cooker)

 

1 tablespoon olive oil

2 large, sweet onions, diced

1 bell pepper, preferably red, diced

1 bag of brown lentils

1 small can of tomato paste or 1 16-oz can petite diced tomatoes

3 tablespoons soy sauce

2 tablespoons sugar (We use Florida Crystals, usually.)

1.5 tablespoons chili powder

1 teaspoon salt

1 teaspoon ground black pepper

4 cups of water

 

Rinse and drain the lentils.

Saute the onion and bell pepper in the olive oil until softened.

Add the chili powder, and stir to coat the veggies.

Transfer the mix to a slow cooker.

Add remaining ingredients and stir.

Cook on low heat for six to eight hours.

 

FYI: Watch the time on this the first time you make it. You don't want it to get too dry.

[PhotoGal]

What I would do is make a big list of good healthy foods and have the kids pick their favorites to have around for meals & snacks. So, if your kids don't like spinach, I wouldn't make them eat it, but maybe they do like blueberries - so you can make something with blueberries. Focus on the healthy foods that they like. Some things they may not acquire a taste for until they are older. (Saying this as a former "picky eater" who now loves broccoli!). :)

[AmandaVT]

Check out the happyherbivore.com site. She's got a lot of yummy recipes that are healthy and she's endorsed by the forks over knives doctors. We've been cutting way back on our dairy/egg intake and DH doesn't eat any meat, DS and I eat a bit here and there. The HH recipes made it easy and tasty to make the switch. And it's been a gradual thing too. My 5 year old hasn't complained or really noticed. We keep tons of fresh fruit and veggies in the house and we still have some treats too.

 

[mamaraby]

I still have young kids, and they are growing and need more than veggies and soup for dinner.

Agreed, which is why pretty much no one has suggested that anyone eat just veggies and soup for dinner, though both can certainly be tasty and at times particularly filling. But really, there is plenty of variety within the world of vegetables, starches, beans, and grains that can keep even the most active athlete satiated and well nourished - there are elite level athletes that do so successfully.

 

Everyone can benefit from more vegetables, whole grains, and fiber. So that's probably the best place to start when it comes to talking about changes. That most people need to eat more vegetables and that doing so gives many positive benefits to health is neither extreme nor controversial.

[Farrar]

I think, as a former vomiter, that it's just that even if they're trying, some kids just can't really keep down something they don't want to eat.  I didn't throw up food to prove a point or as an extreme form of complaining.  I threw it up because I couldn't help it.  So even if you cut out the complaints, your choices are eat and throw up or not eat.  What kind of choice is that to put on a kid?  Not that this is necessarily the OP's kids.  Just that the simplistic, eat it or else, no complaints allowed, attitude will not always solve the problem.  As a child, I would stubbornly have rather quietly starved myself than eaten lentils at every meal.  I would have come to hate food, and probably hate my parents.  I know this sounds nuts, but being picky is not really rational.  It's about control.  And if not eating the lentils was the only way to get that control, I would have just sat there in tears, fuming at everyone during every meal and eating whatever junk food I could afford on the side.

 

OP, I second what Joanne said.  Make small, not radical changes now.  As those changes are slowly accepted, make new changes.  Think about changing your diet over a period of a couple of years or more, not right away.  The whole thing strikes me as being about control on both ends.  You want to control the cancer, to help everyone not get cancer in the future and heal your dh.  Cooking and eating this new way helps you feel that control.  Even with the good prognosis, the kids probably feel a lack of control as well.  A diagnosis of cancer is just scary - everyone feels untethered.  But now you're upsetting their world even more by changing what they can eat and it is having the opposite effect on them.  Food is so basic and is, for better or worse, about comfort and stability for so many people.  So I say go slow.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[momacacia]

Chrisbeatcancer's blog has some recipes your kids might like. We did a special diet for one of my children. They were/are of course younger, but when all you are serving and all you have in the house is compliant with said diet, they eventually get hungry. ;-) And discover that the food tastes pretty good and might develop some favorites. At your ages though , and considering it's not one of the children's health issues you are dealing with case I might ask the whole family to consider joining the child's special diet in solidarity), I would allow for individual choices at parties, group settings etc.

 

You will win more longterm compliance and interest in a healthy diet through good-natured informing and your own example than the "we're all going to die if we eat one more French fry" and zealot-like propaganda. ;)

[Rosie_0801]

I think, as a former vomiter, that it's just that even if they're trying, some kids just can't really keep down something they don't want to eat.  I didn't throw up food to prove a point or as an extreme form of complaining.  I threw it up because I couldn't help it.  So even if you cut out the complaints, your choices are eat and throw up or not eat.  What kind of choice is that to put on a kid?  Not that this is necessarily the OP's kids.  Just that the simplistic, eat it or else, no complaints allowed, attitude will not always solve the problem.  As a child, I would stubbornly have rather quietly starved myself than eaten lentils at every meal.  I would have come to hate food, and probably hate my parents.  I know this sounds nuts, but being picky is not really rational.  It's about control.  And if not eating the lentils was the only way to get that control, I would have just sat there in tears, fuming at everyone during every meal and eating whatever junk food I could afford on the side.

 

 

Ok. Two people seem to think I advocate forcing children to eat foods that make them vomit. I'm not sure why as I've said nothing of the kind.

[JenniferB]

My dad had cancer when I was a kid. He chose to treat it with a natural method called The Gerson Therapy. It was a very strict diet, vegan, juicing every hour, shots, liver juice, etc. etc. he prolonged his life 9 years past his prognosis. He couldn't take the diet anymore and he went back to an average diet. He eventually died in his 40's.

 

Anyway, all that to say, I believe the Gerson Therapy helped him tremendously. Us kids were expected to follow it. We ate what dad ate. In hindsight I don't think they had to be so strict on us kids. I think it would have been nice if my step mom would have taken us kids out to eat once in a while. But the idea they kept pounding into us kids was that we didn't want to make my dad feel bad, which we didn't, so we obeyed, but it was really hard.

 

I think you all will find your way. Just love each other and do the best you can in an organic way. ((Hugs))

[mazakaal]

Sorry I dropped out of the conversation. I had to get the kids to bed (we're on Greenwich Mean Time) and then I was so tired that I went to bed. I've read through the responses but don't have time to respond to each one now. I think I'm going to have to bring dh to the hospital as his bladder seems to be shutting down. Would appreciate your prayers. Thanks. I'll try to respond later.

[Laurie4b]

Your family is stress, even with the good prognosis. And making major changes due to health or life crisises is a very expected and human response,

 

But for it to be successful, it requires buy in and also needs to emerge from the heart of the participant. If it starts from someone else, it needs to eventually become making changes for personal motivation.

 

Finally, I would not be comfortable marketing the changes ties to Dad's cancer. The psychological guilt over lapses or lack or motivation could be complicated. How will thy feel about themselves if they hate the changes or cheat?

 

 

 

Joanne is making such an important point. Every single person in this family is under stress.

 

For the parents here, taking charge of what you eat is a powerful psychological way to fight the cancer and can help physically, too, for the cancer patient, so combats stress and gives a sense of control. On the other hand, for the kids, a change in eating patterns that was not their idea adds to their stress and adds to their sense of their world not being in control.

 

There is a reason that foods are called "comfort" foods.

 

The tactic of "Hey! No complaining at my table!" is a choice many parents make in normal circumstances. A different approach f is appropriate in times of stress. In those situations, it's emotionally healthy to allow for some relaxing of rules when that accommodates psychological needs.

 

For the kids, their world has been rocked in that their dad has cancer, even if they aren't expressing it, which they often don't. If asked, they'll often say, "I'm fine." Sometimes if asked, they'll talk about their feelings. But a lot of kids use a kid-form of denial in these situations. For kids, one of the best ways to help them in a crisis is to maintain a normal routine. It wasn't until after my cancer was gone that we found out how some of our kids had processed it and we went out of our way to make sure they had outside support and not just support from us because we knew we would be stretched.

 

I think the kids' psychological needs and the dad's/mom's desire to change his diet as a way of taking control need to be balanced.

 

I would be very inclined to let the kids have the foods that they are used to as a way to support them in their stress, and introduce change like lentils as a meat substitute gradually or as side-dishes for them alongside the meat while dad and mom eat lentils as a main dish.  Like I said upthread, the most evidence for fighting cancer is about eating more fruits and veges. The ones the family already likes can be served in larger portions and they can be made more convenient. (For instance, a large bowl of fruit on the kitchen table so that someone passing by is stimulated by seeing it and can just grab a piece. There was actually a study that a see-through glass bowl was better than an opaque one because of the visual stimulation! A vege tray and dip left out before supper for nibbling.  Freezer stocked with frozen berries for putting on cereal and oatmeal They can be zapped quickly in the microwave or just put in the bowl first and allows to thaw before milk and cereal are added--though I personally like them frozen in cereal! Easy availability is key for more fruits and veges. A main dish (either meat or lentils/beans, etc.) can be doubled and a portion frozen or saved for later in the week to take some of the extra work off mom, who is also stressed.

 

[Blessed Mommy]

But what if the dish was actually terrible? Does anyone go through a diet change without making a new recipe that tastes like, as my kids say, "orca poop"? I made a new dish with some of the wrong ingredients last week, and it didn't turn out well. I ate it, because it was (barely) edible to me, but not to the other four eaters in my house. Why would I tell my kids they had to eat it or go hungry, when DH and my mom could dump it out and make a sandwich?

 

Now DS4 will argue over everything you give him (he'd complain about chocolate for dinner, because he likes complaining more than food), but that's not what I'm imagining with a diet change. Some healthy recipes taste like garbage, and if you don't work with the assumption that there will be "misses", the changes will fail.

Okay, I'll admit that there have been a handful of times when I've made a new recipe, and, well, it didn't turn out right and/or was disgusting!  Whenever this happens, we order pizza!  :) 

[Amira]

Sorry I dropped out of the conversation. I had to get the kids to bed (we're on Greenwich Mean Time) and then I was so tired that I went to bed. I've read through the responses but don't have time to respond to each one now. I think I'm going to have to bring dh to the hospital as his bladder seems to be shutting down. Would appreciate your prayers. Thanks. I'll try to respond later.

I hope everything is okay.