How do I get my kids on board with the new anti-cancer diet I'm trying to introduce?

[elfgivas]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

i came to suggest a few things, but just read about your dh and going to the hospital. 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

ann

[Farrar]

Ok. Two people seem to think I advocate forcing children to eat foods that make them vomit. I'm not sure why as I've said nothing of the kind.

 

Sorry.  No, I just meant that several people were giving the whole "my table, my rules" sort of spiel.  And I was just trying to point out that it's not that simple.  I think kids who are that grossed out by food or that picky are relatively rare.  But the impulse of control for the child when they have no control over their food is pretty strong across the board.

[kewb]

Ok, I am one of the my table, my rules people.  My ds can be quite picky.  His choice is eat what I prepared or you are free to make a sandwich, some yogurt, or cereal. No one has to starve or eat something they find revolting.  However, you are not allowed to complain about what has been prepared.  I find that to be rude and ungrateful after someone took the time to prepare a meal for you to enjoy.

[kewb]

I am not dealing with the OP situation but we have just made the radical move to gluten and dairy free for my dh.  I get the difficulty of a lifestyle change and I get the kids revolting against dramatic change.  The OP's kids are old enough to understand why they are doing what they are doing and are old enough to not be wet blankets about it. 

 

Cancer is stressful for everyone (my dh is a survivor) and it is certainly not easy to balance the role of caretaker and parenting.  Kids are kids and it puts mom in a really bad place.  I've been there. My kids still complain but I don't have to listen to it.  Yes, it can be quite sucky to no longer have whatever food item you love and will die without but a whole new world of great tasting food is out there.  It is about changing their focus from what they can no longer have to what they can have.

 

To quote a mormon I heard on the radio the other day (she was a funny lady)...I say no to sex and alcohol but I say yes to almost everything else.  Want to go out to dinner-yes.  Want to go shopping-yes.  Want to sneak onto this movie set and see if we can meet someone famous-yes. 

[mazakaal]

Turns out we didn't need to go to the hospital after all, thank God. He was able to speak with a doctor and the doctor called a prescription for an antibiotic in to the pharmacy. She thinks it's a bladder infection on top of the bladder cancer. I hope she's right and he starts to feel better soon.

 

Anyway, thanks for all the responses.

 

Ellie and Rosie, while I appreciate your hard-line approach and am sure it works for you, I think that this would be a bad time to try it out with my family. But thanks for your input.

 

Cosmos, they're used to basic store-bought cookies, some of which you may not be familiar with because they're British - chocolate chip cookies, bourbon creams, custard creams, also tortilla chips that I still buy. I've never bought the cheesy rubbish or even potato chips, except on rare occasions. Also I've never bought sugary cereal, but dh would buy it, especially for oldest who is a pesterer who has learned that pestering dad gets his way. That's a whole nuther issue that needs to be dealt with, but not right now. Anyway, since I'm doing most of the grocery shopping now, ds is no longer getting his sugar cereal fix. 

 

Redsquirrel, basically I'm trying to cut down on animal products, particularly meat and especially processed meats. I don't want to cut any of these things out altogether, just cut down on them. I'm still buying regular milk for the kids, but cooking with almond milk. I think the kids would completely shut down if I stopped buying milk! I'm still using regular cheese, but less than before. I'm still using eggs, and haven't really cut back on them yet. And I'm trying to increase fruit and veg intake. I've started juicing, usually making fresh juice once a day, never forcing it on the kids, but offering it. Sometimes they want it sometimes they don't. I've always had fresh fruit available for snacks, so that hasn't changed. I'm trying to make snacks that include more fruit - blueberry muffins, cookies made with banana and applesauce, etc. Finally, I'm trying to add a lot more veg to dinners. I think that's what they most object to - vegetable curry instead of chicken curry, things like that. I really haven't made completely radical changes. They're still allowed to use their pocket money to buy sweets. They can eat what they want at someone else's house. They can even make baked desserts here. I haven't cut out sugar completely or even completely given up meat products.

 

Mamaraby, thanks for all your thoughts and ideas. They're very helpful.

 

Susan C., I'd love to have your Turkish Lentil Stew recipe.

 

ThatHomeschoolDad, I'll check out the New American Plate information. Hope all goes well with your fight against cancer.

 

Ashfern, thanks for the Sloppy Lentils recipe. What size it the bag of lentils that you use? I buy a big 1.5kg bag here, and I'm not sure what a standard bag would be in the States.

 

Gymcoachvt, I'll look into Happy Herbivore. Thanks. And Momacacia, I'll look at the chrisbeatcancer blog.

 

JenniferB, I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. I don't plan on becoming that extreme because dh doesn't want to go that extreme. But I'm glad to hear that it helped your dad prolong his life for 9 years.

 

After reading all your responses, I think that it's best for me to just slow down a bit with the changes, like Horton, Starr, Laurie4b and others said. Tonight I made chicken with cajun seasoning, cornbread, cucumbers and cherry tomatoes, and zucchini 'pasta' with raw puttanesca sauce on a bed of fresh spinach. I ate the 'pasta' part of the meal with a piece of cornbread and the kids ate the chicken, cornbread, and veg. Dd tried the 'pasta' and liked it but the boys didn't. Actually, the 17yo was out this evening so he wasn't even an issue. And dh felt so ill that he barely ate anything. :-( I think if I try to do this slowly, I'll have more success.

 

Thanks again for all the responses.

[Susan C.]

Best wishes again. I know someone who had bladder cancer, and recovered. I hope there is a chance of recovery for your dh.

 

Here is the Turkish Lentil Soup recipe:

 

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/recipe/turkish-red-lentil-soup

 

I made my own vegetable broth from this recipe, it was easy! Surprisingly easy. I would put this in all you can for your dh, and let him drink it as well, it would be easy to digest and broths are nourishing when ill. Freeze after 3 days (if it lasts that long!).

 

http://wholefoodsmarket.com/recipe/homemade-vegetable-broth

 

 

[Halftime Hope]

Just wanted to send Meg (OP) my best wishes.  My mom went through a health crisis that changed her and dad's way of eating radically, and we teens lived to tell.  :-)  (She and dad are now in their 80s, and my mom is now terminal with pancreatic cancer, but she's doing really well at the moment.  When she declines, it will be fast, and she's had 40+ years of great health in between that crisis in her forties and now.)

 

Just wanted to send you a big hug and let you know that many prayers are being said for your husbands' good health to return. 

[mazakaal]

SusanC, thanks for the recipes. They look fantastic. Halftime Hope, thanks for the encouragement. It's so good to hear of a long term success story.

[ashfern]

I'm trying to add a lot more veg to dinners. I think that's what they most object to - vegetable curry instead of chicken curry, things like that. I really haven't made completely radical changes.

 

Ashfern, thanks for the Sloppy Lentils recipe. What size it the bag of lentils that you use? I buy a big 1.5kg bag here, and I'm not sure what a standard bag would be in the States.

 

 

 

Can you just add more veg & also have the chicken? Gradually up the amount of veg until it's all veg.

 

The bag of lentils that I use is 1 pound  (453 g on the bag).

[kewb]

You know, if "I" had to radically change my diet, I would not expect my kids to also do so.  Why must that be?  I mean I do get some compromise because who wants to cook 10 different things a day?  But no, I do not expect people to tip toe around my dietary needs.  I'm a big girl.  KWIM?  I find it interesting that people want to protect their spouse's feelings to this extent (usually we are talking about the husband).  I get being supportive, I do and I'd appreciate support, but again, I still live in the real world where I'll be faced with being around people who eat foods I can't have. 

 

 

I expect everyone to change in the house because it increases the chances of long term success for the one who has to change.  This is not about protecting my spouses feelings or tiptoeing around his diet.  This is about him getting better and as a family doing everything we can to make it happen.  My kids can have all the gluten and dairy and other junk they want when they are at a friends house or if we go out to eat.  But at home, they can eat what everyone else is eating. 

 

I find it more mind boggling when people have the attitude of "Well, x can eat whatever without any problems so why should x have to suffer because y can't control themselves."  My answer to that is x can have all the whatever x wants outside of the house.  I don't have to supply it in the house. 

[OhanaBee]

I realize I'm coming in pretty late to this discussion......

 

My mom had cancer of the thyroid before I was born.  Her mother died of a brain tumour at the same time as Mom's cancer and then 10 years later, two months before I was born, Mom's grandmother died of breast cancer.  Understandably, my Mom has a personal battle with the big C.  So growing up, my family ate Healthy with a capital H.  We lived in Southern California where it was easy to find all that weird healthy stuff before Whole Foods made it popular,  And we heard.....oh did we hear....how bad processed food was for us.  My brother had no problem eating like that.  I resented the fact that my friends got Twinkies and Oreos in their lunch box, while I had homemade yogurt and alfafa sprouts on everything.

 

Mom made me feel SO guilty for not wanting to be healthy because I actually liked chocolate and I went to get a Tommy Burger with my swim team after practice.  In her eyes, I was inviting illness into my life by not choosing the healthy way of eating.  And yes, I really did resent the fact that we HAD to eat healthy.  If she had explained all the reasons to us, maybe I would have understood.  But it wasn't until I was much older that I made the connection between our way of eating and Mom's desperation to keep us healthy.

 

Flash forward to today.  I'm still trying to find the balance between enjoying our food and eating healthy.  My ffather-in-law was diagnosed with cancer last year and I've talked long and hard to my girls about making healthy choices *now* in their eating habits so that their body is best able to fight off any illness or [God forbid] cancer.  Are they making those healthy choices.  Well, I just found a bag of Lindt chocolates in my 18yo's room. Not too thrilled about that, but there's not much I can do.

 

I guess all this is to say, that if I were in your shoes, I would probably make the changes to the meals and explain that you are just making healthy changes in the family.  I wouldn't ban the "junk" food from them, or make them feel guilty for liking it.  It's comfort food for a reason.  But I don't think it's unreasonable to serve healthier meals and expect them to eat it.  You are doing this to help your family and one day they will understand.  I promise. :grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

What are your goals?  Is it to provide a fail-safe against cancer?  You can't do it.  Is it to provide healthy food that will help to nourish your family?  You can do it.  And in my opinion,  you can do it in a way that tastes good.  I like the recipes in Goldbeck's American Whole Foods Cookbook.  As the title says - this is whole foods and not processed.  It also has healthy treats in there - carrot cookies, zucchini bread and other yummy foods that have nutrition as well as taste.  They are treats, so obviously not as healthy as the other choices in the main dish categories but they  have instructions on how to substitute honey instead of sugar to make them even a bit healthier.  The cookbook is vegetarian but I've found it very easy to just add some meat to the recipes for us carnivores/omnivores.  

[redsquirrel]

Ya know, barring allergies, or known food issues, I am not convinced that some of the so called healthy suggestions are necessarily some sort of cure or prevention.   Sure it's probably not best to have certain things all the time, but I see nothing wrong with having it sometimes.   I don't believe meat causes cancer.   Sorry...I just do not.  Where is all the supposed evidence of that?  I have read a lot of books that claim a lot of things, but they don't have much in the way of real evidence. 

 

And heck, I've read stuff that made beans sound deadly.  You can find a book, article, or web page that claims absolutely anything on earth. 

 

Well, then it sounds like you don't have any ideas or suggestions to help the OP reach her goal. She asked for ideas to help her to help her family transition to a new way of eating. I don't think she asked to debate the merit of that goal or if others find it a worthwhile goal to have.

 

And while I did quote SparklyUnicorn (one of the best forum names, btw) I am not thinking only of her with my response. There are lots of people here who ask for ideas to solve a problem or make a change etc that I might not agree with or see the point of or value . So, if I have an idea I will give it, or not as is my prerogative, but I am not so sure it is useful to take that particular opportunity to tell the OP that I disagree with them. 

 

Her stated goal is to incorporate more fruits and vegetables and less meat in her family's diet. Not eliminate it, reduce. That is hardly a radical proposition. Maybe you don't agree with her stated impetus for that decision, but it is her decision to make.

[In the Rain]

Finally, I'm trying to add a lot more veg to dinners. I think that's what they most object to - vegetable curry instead of chicken curry, things like that. 

 

Instead of aiming for vegetable curry, can you make chicken curry with tons of veggies? Over the last several years, I've added more and more veggies to combined dishes and soups. My dh really wants to see meat though, so I usually add at least one chicken breast. When serving up the bowls, I try to place the chicken bits visibly on top. It makes a huge difference in how my family receives the meal.

 

I applaud you for trying to change your family's diet. Dh and I both wish our childhood comfort foods were a little healthier.  

 

Best wishes to your dh as he beats his cancer!

[Melissa in Australia]

I realize I'm coming in pretty late to this discussion......

 

My mom had cancer of the thyroid before I was born.  Her mother died of a brain tumour at the same time as Mom's cancer and then 10 years later, two months before I was born, Mom's grandmother died of breast cancer.  Understandably, my Mom has a personal battle with the big C.  So growing up, my family ate Healthy with a capital H.  We lived in Southern California where it was easy to find all that weird healthy stuff before Whole Foods made it popular,  And we heard.....oh did we hear....how bad processed food was for us.  My brother had no problem eating like that.  I resented the fact that my friends got Twinkies and Oreos in their lunch box, while I had homemade yogurt and alfafa sprouts on everything.

 

Mom made me feel SO guilty for not wanting to be healthy because I actually liked chocolate and I went to get a Tommy Burger with my swim team after practice.  In her eyes, I was inviting illness into my life by not choosing the healthy way of eating.  And yes, I really did resent the fact that we HAD to eat healthy.  If she had explained all the reasons to us, maybe I would have understood.  But it wasn't until I was much older that I made the connection between our way of eating and Mom's desperation to keep us healthy.

 

Flash forward to today.  I'm still trying to find the balance between enjoying our food and eating healthy.  My ffather-in-law was diagnosed with cancer last year and I've talked long and hard to my girls about making healthy choices *now* in their eating habits so that their body is best able to fight off any illness or [God forbid] cancer.  Are they making those healthy choices.  Well, I just found a bag of Lindt chocolates in my 18yo's room. Not too thrilled about that, but there's not much I can do.

 

I guess all this is to say, that if I were in your shoes, I would probably make the changes to the meals and explain that you are just making healthy changes in the family.  I wouldn't ban the "junk" food from them, or make them feel guilty for liking it.  It's comfort food for a reason.  But I don't think it's unreasonable to serve healthier meals and expect them to eat it.  You are doing this to help your family and one day they will understand.  I promise. :grouphug:

Why are you upset by finding chocolate in your 18 year old's room?

[TeacherZee]

You can easily replace both the fat and eggs in muffin type recipes with apple sauce and they actually taste better :) I have this book and I've replaced the oil and eggs with apple sauce. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mix-100-Muffins-Susanna-Tee/dp/1407526162/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1390127396&sr=1-8&keywords=100+muffins

 

My favourite is the raspberry one. You could probably replace the yoghurt with soy yoghurt no problems.

 

I also cut the sugar WAY WAY down. I think I only use 2tbsp.

[Guest submarines]

People who complain can leave the room without finishing their food. They don't get to fix anything else, either.

 

Way to go to support emotional health in an already stressful situation.

[Vera]

Chocolatecoveredkatie.com has wonderful recipes for healthy treats. Her back bean brownies are fabulous. Dd and I bake pretty exclusively from her recipes. Also, I make a green smoothie with kale, mango, banana and water that is legitimately tasty. My kids also like one with spinach, strawberry and banana. You can slip in any extra supplements to those smoothies also. I add chia seeds and hemp seeds to almost everything and spirulina when I think I can get away with it. We are vegetarian and I would be happy to give you some recipes if that would help you.

[OhanaBee]

Why are you upset by finding chocolate in your 18 year old's room?

 

I'm not upset, just not really happy with the bags of chocolate I found there.  It worries me that she's filling up on chocolate and not eating regular meals.  Her schedule this semester [her final college semester at home] is jam packed full and I know she's eating on the run.  My worry is that she's filling up on snacks and not on healthy food.  There are also some health issues with her that I won't go into here.  Suffice it to say, she's 18 and has to start making these choices for herself.  And last night she was very generous and offered me a piece of chocolate so it's not like she's hiding it from me [which was my other worry - that's what I used to do with chocolate because of my Mom's phobia.  Not very healthy emotionally or physically]

[mazakaal]

OhanaBee, thanks for sharing your story. And thanks to everyone else for the helpful suggestions. I made my veggie curry recipe tonight and added in a pound of chicken, and it went over better. I have tried some recipes with applesauce for sweetener. I'll check out that recipe book for more ideas as well as the chocolatecoveredkatie website. Love that name! :-)

[elfgivas]

mazakaal

 

i am thinking of you every time i sit down at the table.

 

one thing that helped our transition was the purchase of a large lazy susan to go on the table.

for a while, i did a lot "make your own" meals, with many different fresh and raw veggies + whatever else was called for.  today's lunch was "make your own salad".  i made the salad dressing for the strawberry poppyseed salad.  i also had five different kinds of yoghurt salad dressing in bottles.  and i made robbie's garlic croutons out of whole grain bread.  while they won't eat sandwiches made with whole grain bread (we have progressed as far as whole wheat bread though, but it took years), they will devour croutons made of it.  there was kale, spinach, romaine, celery, onion, tomatoes, sprouts, broccoli, mushrooms, blue cheese, and feta cheese on the lazy susan.  + croutons, which is what sold them on salad as a meal all those years ago.

 

we also do make your own tacos, make your own burritos, and make your own gyros.  on the make your own gyros days, i also have a greek salad available, and homemade tzatziki (so easy), and hummus and tabouli.

 

what worked with homemade soups was that i got a breadmaker and they would get fresh bread to go with their butternut squash soup, or their gazpacho or or or.  i started with 100% white bread, and worked it up to fifty/fifty before anyone noticed.  by then they were resigned to the path forward.  white whole wheat flour helped a lot.  

 

as far as your dh goes, he has to opt in.  ie.  there is kale there, and i put a handful into anything.  (even in my breakfast burrito most mornings).  dh doesn't.  but i am the one who lived thru the cancer scare, so that makes some amount of sense.

 

and when i am going to be eating separately from them, i encourage them to have something that i wouldn't normally make for them.  after a few years of a healthy fat and sugar level, they have made some changes for themselves.  full fat pizza is now just too much, so they make pita pizzas with 2% milk cheeses.  i don't eat pizzas, but will make something else out of my pita ;). 

 

and i have enlisted the kids help, too.  eg.  i need to eat kale as often as i can, but at least three times a day.  one of them found a recipe for a pineapple and kale smoothie that is unbelievably good.  when i make it, everyone has some, because it is really good.  most of the rest of the time, there is a bowl of fresh or cooked kale served with everything else at the table, and people can add it to what they are having or not.  i am startled by how often i am now not the only one doing it.  (again, that took a good long while). 

 

for me, working on food was something i could do, in the midst of many things i could not do/change, so it was a productive way to work on my stress.  when the kids asked what they could to help, i was pretty open about saying "just don't complain too much".  "let me know, NOT at the dinner table, if there is something you love that we aren't having enough of for you, and i'll see what i can do."

 

in some bizarre way, i was fortunate, because we had made the move away from processed/premade foods before cancer came calling.  the kids were pretty quick to see how much worse it might have been if we hadn't.

 

hth,

ann

[kewb]

Chocolatecoveredkatie.com has wonderful recipes for healthy treats. Her back bean brownies are fabulous. Dd and I bake pretty exclusively from her recipes. Also, I make a green smoothie with kale, mango, banana and water that is legitimately tasty. My kids also like one with spinach, strawberry and banana. You can slip in any extra supplements to those smoothies also. I add chia seeds and hemp seeds to almost everything and spirulina when I think I can get away with it. We are vegetarian and I would be happy to give you some recipes if that would help you.

 

I love this site. Everyone loves the super fudge babies.  My dh really likes the cashew bars.  Everything I have tried from her site has been a hit with my picky eaters.

[albeto.]

Way to go to support emotional health in an already stressful situation.

 

And teach the fine arts of foraging for food elsewhere, avoiding mom, and seeking out peers for social/emotional needs. 

[Meriwether]

Ya know, barring allergies, or known food issues, I am not convinced that some of the so called healthy suggestions are necessarily some sort of cure or prevention.   Sure it's probably not best to have certain things all the time, but I see nothing wrong with having it sometimes.   I don't believe meat causes cancer.   Sorry...I just do not.  Where is all the supposed evidence of that?  I have read a lot of books that claim a lot of things, but they don't have much in the way of real evidence. 

 

And heck, I've read stuff that made beans sound deadly.  You can find a book, article, or web page that claims absolutely anything on earth. 

My SIL was just diagnosed with cancer. She is mostly vegetarian although she will eat chicken and fish. She is allergic to dairy.

[In the Rain]

for a while, i did a lot "make your own" meals, with many different fresh and raw veggies + whatever else was called for.  today's lunch was "make your own salad".  i made the salad dressing for the strawberry poppyseed salad.  i also had five different kinds of yoghurt salad dressing in bottles.  and i made robbie's garlic croutons out of whole grain bread.  while they won't eat sandwiches made with whole grain bread (we have progressed as far as whole wheat bread though, but it took years), they will devour croutons made of it.  there was kale, spinach, romaine, celery, onion, tomatoes, sprouts, broccoli, mushrooms, blue cheese, and feta cheese on the lazy susan.  + croutons, which is what sold them on salad as a meal all those years ago.

 

 

:iagree: with Ann,

 

I have found that presenting veggies as optional add ins often leads to a better attitude about trying vegetables for my children. I think they are tempted by small bits of pretty colors, and the fun of assembling their own food. As a side benefit, they become accustomed to the flavor, one little bite at a time. 

 

Our Christmas Eve meal is always a noodle bowl with lots of toppings available. My kids will put some of everything in their bowls, just for the fun of it.  :laugh:

[Negin]

That makes sense.  And I thought the OP likely was serving/buying certain foods for years and now she wants to completely and radically change that overnight?   Some of her children are nearly adults.  That seems rather traumatic.  I know people say your house you serve what you want, but still kids are people.  They aren't dogs.  You can't just buy a different food and stick it in their food dish and wait until the dog gets hungry enough.  Heck, I know a lot of people who would care if their dog didn't like the new brand of food and wouldn't send the dog to bed hungry.  Why are children not given consideration?

 

 

Way to go to support emotional health in an already stressful situation.

 

 

And teach the fine arts of foraging for food elsewhere, avoiding mom, and seeking out peers for social/emotional needs. 

 

I have nothing to add really. I'm so sorry for all those who are going through cancer  :grouphug: . I just quoted the above posts since I agree with them and feel that when going through all the difficulties and stress of cancer, the last thing I would want is to get all legalistic and have the "my table, my rules" sort of mentality. I used to think otherwise. I've changed. I just don't think it's necessarily as simple as that. My main goal would be to bring the family closer together. Getting all tied up in rules and regulations would just likely cause further problems. The OP has kids who are older, like mine, and I know that this sort of thing just gets harder. It seems easier to give these rules and expect the children to abide by them when they're younger. When they're older, it really is not that simple and clear-cut anymore. This is not the battle I would choose.