Did you read this entry on Dave Ramsey's blog?

[Blueridge]

Thoughts?

 

http://www.daveramsey.com/blog/20-things-the-rich-do-every-day

[*Lulu*]

A few of those things struck me as somewhat disingenuous.

 

Someone who is wealthy may not watch more than an hour of television in a day, but may engage in some other form of recreation that would be cost prohibitive to a non-wealthy person. Instead of comparing the number of hours of tv viewing, it would have been nice to compare total recreation times.

 

The food and exercise ones struck me the same way. Junk food is often less expensive and quicker to prep. Unless you already have access to certain resources and/or a support system exercise can be an expensive proposition as well. It makes sense that those with access to more resources would do these things in higher percentages.

[mytwomonkeys]

It was a quick read and interesting to me.

[RoughCollie]

That guy is an idiot.  I can refute every one of his points with facts.

[Carrie12345]

That guy is an idiot.  I can refute every one of his points with facts.

Really? I didn't find the statistics themselves suspicious. I do think the implications are off, though.

[NicAnn]

I have to agree with RC. It makes for a nice small talk, but to present this information with no background just doesn't work.

[*Lulu*]

I have to agree with RC. It makes for a nice small talk, but to present this information with no background just doesn't work.

It looks like it was a re blogging of information form another site.

 

Still, with no context it begs the question, "And?"

 

What are we supposed to do with these numbers? Should we assume that people are wealthy because they do these things? Or is this meant to illustrate that those who are wealthy can expect a higher quality of life?

[MyThreeSons]

The underlying implication is that the wealthy are wealthy because of the things they do differently, when in actuality, it's more likely that they *can* do things differently because they are wealthy. 

 

I detest these articles that are supposedly statistically based. I love the comment that says "98% of statistics are made up on the spot". I just read an online article that ranks my current hometown the 10th "most miserable" place to live in America. The questions they asked a few "representative" people are a bunch of hogwash. 

 

Some of the other comments are spot on. These statements are simply too wishy-washy. What does "network" mean to a retail clerk or "poor" person? 

 

 

 

 

[mytwomonkeys]

well, i thought they were all good habits to incorporate, regardless of income. the "why" wasn't a factor, so i agree that the wealthier you are the better you can eat, etc. happiness wasn't measured either. it's just a numbers poll and they aren't concrete evidence by any means.  i liked those habits though & was reminded of a few more things i need to be doing.  so i found it interesting.

[Pawz4me]

I find Mr. Ramsey to be a thoroughly repugnant excuse for a human being in many ways, and what is being implied in that blog post just reinforces my view.

 

Yes, some poor people are poor due to absolutely nothing but their own continual bad decisions.  But many are poor because of life circumstances totally beyond their control.  To imply (as the blog seems to do) that poor people always make poor choices w/o putting things in context is . . . well, I could think of a lot of descriptive words to put there, but BLA5 already said disingenuous  and that seems as good as any.

[Twigs]

8. 80% of wealthy make hbd calls vs. 11% of poor

 

 

Anyone know what "hbd" stands for?

[mytwomonkeys]

happy birthday calls

 

(or that's what i'm telling myself! :) )

[mamajudy]

First of all, Dave Ramsey didn't write this; it was something he posted from another blog. Second, if 80% of a group does something, that means that 20% does not. Nobody said, "All rich people do such-and-such." The point of the thing is just to cause us to examine our habits. If we want to be successful in life, maybe we should consider trying to improve ourselves by setting goals, educating ourselves, and eating right, rather than filling our time with mindless television and our stomachs with empty calories.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

1. 70% of wealthy eat less than 300 junk food calories per day. 97% of poor people eat more than 300 junk food calories per day. (They're called urban food deserts, Dave, you can google that)  23% of wealthy gamble. 52% of poor people gamble. (Lottery has indeed been called a tax on the poor, but unless it's habitual, not unlike the high roller blowing his weekly coke money in Vegas, it's not a valid comparison.  Hedge funds gamble).

2. 80% of wealthy are focused on accomplishing some single goal. Only 12% of the poor do this.  (The poor have a single goal to make to the end of their shift(s) and hope their childcare holds out.)

3. 76% of wealthy exercise aerobically 4 days a week. 23% of poor do this. (It's called Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, Dave, and you aren't going to hit the gym until after your physiological and safety needs are met, at least.  psych 101).

4. 63% of wealthy listen to audio books during commute to work vs. 5% for poor people.  (Hard to do on the bus Dave, or if your shift(s) get you home after the library closes, or you're not close to a library, or....)

 

 

Ya know, DD and I are in the part of her logic book that talks about what to look for when someone is trying to sell you something.  This guys ticks several of the boxes.   Wanna get our of debt?  Sell books to people telling them how to get out of debt.

[Moxie]

1. 70% of wealthy eat less than 300 junk food calories per day. 97% of poor people eat more than 300 junk food calories per day. (They're called urban food deserts, Dave, you can google that) 23% of wealthy gamble. 52% of poor people gamble. (Lottery has indeed been called a tax on the poor, but unless it's habitual, not unlike the high roller blowing his weekly coke money in Vegas, it's not a valid comparison. Hedge funds gamble).

 

2. 80% of wealthy are focused on accomplishing some single goal. Only 12% of the poor do this. (The poor have a single goal to make to the end of their shift(s) and hope their childcare holds out.)

 

3. 76% of wealthy exercise aerobically 4 days a week. 23% of poor do this. (It's called Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, Dave, and you aren't going to hit the gym until after your physiological and safety needs are met, at least. psych 101).

 

4. 63% of wealthy listen to audio books during commute to work vs. 5% for poor people. (Hard to do on the bus Dave, or if your shift(s) get you home after the library closes, or you're not close to a library, or....)

 

 

Ya know, DD and I are in the part of her logic book that talks about what to look for when someone is trying to sell you something. This guys ticks several of the boxes. Wanna get our of debt? Sell books to people telling them how to get out of debt.

It should be noted that Dave did not write this article. He just re-posted it.

 

It should also be noted that Dave has help hundreds of thousands of people greatly improve their financial situations with his $10 book. Do you feel bitter toward a fitness guru who sells inspirational material to help people get in shape?

[TechWife]

The point of the thing is just to cause us to examine our habits. If we want to be successful in life, maybe we should consider trying to improve ourselves by setting goals, educating ourselves, and eating right, rather than filling our time with mindless television and our stomachs with empty calories.

I disagree with the premise that wealth = successful. I know many successful people that don't have any monetary wealth.

[mytwomonkeys]

Well, in fairness Dave Ramsey has gotten a lot of people out of debt! "Total Money Makeover"  revolutionized our lives & helped my family a great deal. Secondly, I disagree that poor people are just trying to make it to the end of their shift and pay for childcare.  I live in a very rural area and it's the poorest county in FL. Most people I know are considered "poorer than dirt" on paper & I don't believe any one of them even remotely considers themselves poor at all. "Poor" is more of a mindset than an income.  I live in a single wide trailer & our budget is tight. To my extended family and friends that grew up with me, we would be considered poor.  We drive used cars. Our home is on wheels. We aren't too proud to wear hand-me-downs. But to us, we are close to living completely debt free and are able to enjoy life more than we ever have before!  "Poor" people are often much more generous than the rich, and the poll didn't mention that. It's just a numbers poll though. So, I'm not concerned with what it left out. Those are habits that are worth looking at, and for me, I thought it had good suggestions. I didn't take it to be anything accusational or offensive, simply ideas we can all think about incorporating more.

[Hikin' Mama]

I do like Dave Ramsey, but I think these stats are comparing apples to oranges and therefore don't really tell us anything. And like a PP said, some of those things poor people don't do because they don't have the time or the resources, because they are poor and must spend a lot more time just trying to survive.

 

I was recently at a conference for the industry dh and I have a business in, and some economist was throwing around percentages regarding average American income and how much it took to eat and have shelter. Just by doing the mental calculations, I knew he was WAY low, and I wondered why he didn't calculate it all out before his presentation. Then I googled ave. American income and used a calculator and found that he was even more off. The sad thing is, some people listened to it and were all excited about his numbers. Think much?

[msjones]

The suggestion seems to be that changing one's habits may change one's financial situation.  

 

I think that's often true.

[Zebra]

Not eating junk food or exercising more will not make me wealthy.  

 

The habits in the blog post are largely a result of being rich, and having the time and energy to put into "quality of life".   I was far more concerned about setting goals and educating myself before we went down to one income and had a child.   Now I just have to get through the day.   I would much rather be spending my time volunteering and setting goals, but instead I am worrying about what toilet paper is cheaper.  

 

IMHO an article that points out something like, "The wealthy do not pay interest on their credit card or only flush their toilets once a week" would be more helpful :lol: .   These are habits that perhaps help you retain your wealth.   The blog post only cites habits that are by-products of wealth. 

[MyThreeSons]

It should also be noted that Dave has help hundreds of thousands of people greatly improve their financial situations with his $10 book. Do you feel bitter toward a fitness guru who sells inspirational material to help people get in shape?

 

I know this isn't directed at me, but ......

 

I like a lot of Dave's tips, however he does tend to be condescending and mocking. Genuinely helping people doesn't need to include that attitude. Yes, I would feel negatively towards a fitness guru who mocked the people he was helping. 

 

I also think that he tends to oversimplify how easy it is to follow his plan. For a family that is eating in restaurants several times a week, has three car payments for two drivers, goes on real vacations every year, etc. but is living beyond their income, yes, it is rather simple to make changes. However, there are plenty of hard-working folks who can't remember the last time they ate out, went on a vacation or bought new clothes, and do not have a house full of non-necessities to sell. The realities of life mean that every time they get something put into savings, that beater car breaks down, or the kid gets sick, and they have to tap into savings. Hearing him say that they "just need to ...." doesn't help and is discouraging rather than encouraging. 

[Anne in CA]

For 17 years I worked in a big hotel with a lot of immigrants who arrived in their country dirt poor who have improved their lives to the point they are no longer poor. Their daily habits are absolutely what took them from refugee camp to owning their own house and an $80,000 a year job. No question in my mind. However, the people I am thinking of did not probably do many of the things listed on the blog post. But they had a daily habit of self improvement, did not eat junk or gamble for sure. Their single mindedness extended beyond this one shift. Their single mindedness was more about making sure their employer knew that they were working on their English, becoming a citizen, always being early for work, ect.

[mamajudy]

I disagree with the premise that wealth = successful. I know many successful people that don't have any monetary wealth.

 

I never said that wealth = success. But I would venture to say that the person who spends his time drinking, gambling, watching reality television, and eating nothing but junk food, without attempting to make himself a better person, is not successful. Again, the point of the blog post is to show us things that we could improve in our lives. Many people just go about their days without examining what they are doing or why they are doing it. We can sit around with our bag of chips, drown our sorrows in alcohol, and make excuses, or we can try to actually do something about our situation. Obviously, the homeless man living under a bridge is simply focused on survival, but that is not who is reading the blog. In America, it is possible to change one's situation in life. I have seen it happen many times.

[ErinE]

That guy is an idiot. I can refute every one of his points with facts.

Facts? We don't need no stinking facts!

[LucyStoner]

All of the things referenced are things I do. Food and exercise though? That does cost me money. But my goal isn't wealth (if it were I wouldn't be planning to open a community foundation as my third act). It's a happy life well lived. And I certainly have been poor.

 

Ramsey offers very simplified financial advice for people who need simplified financial advice because they are in crisis mode with debt. Having personally never amassed a lot of debt or overspent on frivolous stuff, I've never found his advice to be what I needed. I dislike his style and I don think there is much substance there. That's just my opinion.

[Joanne]

What a irresponsible perpetuation of myths, stereotypes, and stigma.

 

It reinforces the myth that poor people are fat, lazy, and stupid.

 

I've recently been the (grateful) recipient of donated food supplies (due to my accident and being out of work). The food was often *expired*, the "off" brands and flavors, and heavily starch.

 

The 20 list ignores the reality that "poor" often = works many hours, often at several low paying jobs that do not have benefits, in which if you have a family emergency, you can't take off. Where you can't BE home to supervise homework, encourage reading, or write down a list of goals.

 

The "poor" people I know have been some of the hardest working, struggling, and diligent people I know.

 

Luck IS luck. The American Dream is, in many ways, a nightmare. Unless you already have a situation that allows for 1 - 20.

 

I am less a Dave fan now than ever.

 

[SKL]

Well, I found it interesting and inspiring!  I have been needing some inspiration to get my life back on track lately.  (Though one does wonder where those statistics came from.)

 

I then looked at the comments above and found them even more interesting.

 

And although I know this is not gonna make me any friends, I'm going to say it:

 

90% of successful people read that list and nodded their heads through most of it.  (Granted, not all of it.)

90% of people who feel less successful read that list and said, "what a load of elitist BS."

 

Hmmm.

[SKL]

I wonder why people are so resistant to the idea that maybe rich / financially successful people work hard too.

[Alessandra]

Two vivd images pop up in my mind:

 

-- The scene in Food, Inc. in which a child in a supermarket looks longingly at an apple, and her mother tells her that they can't afford it. The scene was in the section on how subsidized corn leads to low beef patty prices.

 

-- From my own experience, I remember the head of our non-profit nursery school telling me that all the children on scholarship had two working parents.

 

-- Oh, and one more -- a friend talking about Medicaid recipients -- "those" people should get jobs.

 

To me, Dave Ramsay looks smug and self-congratulatory, not to mention cruel and heartless.

 

And as pp said, some habits are practiced as a result of people's being well off; the habits are not necessarily the cause of wealth. Cause and correlation -- DR seems blind to the difference, and by encouraging prejudice in the similarly ignorant, he delivers a slap in the face to everyone who is less well off. 

[ErinE]

I wonder why people are so resistant to the idea that maybe rich / financially successful people work hard too.

I think many rich, financially successful people work hard. I also think many poor, less well-off people work hard, too. Dave Ramsey's tips don't help the latter group. When you're scrambling to pay for rent and food, thinking about exercise, life goals, and lists falls down the list of priorities. He seems to imply that people are always poor through their own actions. I don't believe this is the case.

[Mergath]

What a load of crap.  With the exception of getting up three hours before I have to and believing all that junk about luck, I do all the "wealthy" habits on that list.  I did them when we were dirt poor, too.  Not a single one had any effect on how much money dh makes.  Will changing your habits for the better lead to a more successful life?  Probably.  But you don't need to start listening to audio books (shame on those poor people for not having mp3 players in their cars!) to do that.   

[Mergath]

I was amazed this past November 1st when I made the mistake of going to Walmart...   I asked my friend who works there and she says the first is chaos there because everyone gets paid, so they go out and buy groceries.  But what amazed me is that all the lines were open and 4 or 5 people deep with their carts piled high.... But what they were buying!!!!!  10 or 15 two liter soft drinks, pies and cakes from the bakery, tv dinners....   I guess I could have understood if they were filling their carts decent food, but even me the not food purist couldn't conceive of what they were buying.   Some kind of financial eduation is needed.  I've known people that bought smart phones for their children ( my children don't have one... a dumb phone is just fine if they have to have one) a brand new huge tv and then were completely devastated when their car broke down.  They hadn't budgeted and these people that I know just seemed to be of the mind that if they had the money they had to spend it or it would be gone, so they bought fun things...

 

I realize that is not everyone.  I have another friend who is a single mom who HASNT been that way.  Medical issues can cause things you cannot always plan for.  But I really wanted to take these people by the hand...   I remember being first married and dirt poor.  I didn't buy coke because we didn't have the money.  I drank tap water.  Our furniture were 50 year old hand me downs ( not the antique kind either, junk furniture) that relatives had thrown out.  We didn't go out.  I didn't get to buy any new clothes.  For the first 15 years of my marriage, I only bought clothes with Christmas or birthday money that people gave me. 

 

Some  ( though not all) of his stats made sense.  Though just because you don't eat junk food, doesn't mean that you will be rich!!!  Some of it was oversimplified.  But wise choices can certainly help you. 

 

:001_rolleyes:  Oh, is it time for the vague anecdotal poor-shaming already?

[I talk to the trees]

I disagree with the premise that wealth = successful. I know many successful people that don't have any monetary wealth.

 

Amen, sister!!! Dh has a DMA in oboe from Eastman- a great success for a musician, yet we are far from wealthy. Comfortable, yes, but not wealthy. As for Dave Ramsey......Tom's post pretty much sums up how I feel about DR. :glare:

[SKL]

With all the rich-shaming that is so popular here, I think it's only fair that a few people will engage in alleged poor-shaming.  :/

[*Lulu*]

Well, I found it interesting and inspiring! I have been needing some inspiration to get my life back on track lately. (Though one does wonder where those statistics came from.)

 

I then looked at the comments above and found them even more interesting.

 

And although I know this is not gonna make me any friends, I'm going to say it:

 

90% of successful people read that list and nodded their heads through most of it. (Granted, not all of it.)

90% of people who feel less successful read that list and said, "what a load of elitist BS."

 

Hmmm.

If I didn't know that 73.6% of all statistics are made up in the spot your little zinger might have stung.

 

As it stands the numbers themselves are not elitist. Most things on that list are good and I would imagine even those of us sitting somewhere in between the wealthy and the poor categories do some percentage of them.

 

The BS part comes in when you try to take the numbers at face value and extrapolate from them things they do not actually reflect.

[MyThreeSons]

In America, it is possible to change one's situation in life. 

 

Okay --- help me change this:

 

My husband has Alzheimer's disease. He cannot work. I cannot leave him for long periods of time to work. I make ends meet by teaching at a co-op and tutoring while our youngest ds stays with his Dad. 

 

Fifteen years ago, before he got ill, we had no debt -- not even a mortgage. We have been married over 26 years and have never had a car payment. Our family has taken ONE week-long vacation. (Not one per year -- one ever.)  Our van has over 200,000 miles on it. We did not squander money, we worked hard. We are wiped out. 

 

So, please, come wave your magic America wand and help me change my situation in life. I am ready.

[Zebra]

I wonder why people are so resistant to the idea that maybe rich / financially successful people work hard too.

I know from experience that having a decent job that also pays decently makes a huge difference in quality of life.   Just because you are rich doesn't mean you don't work hard.   But the truth is, working at McDonalds or at a daycare may actually be harder work than being a Vice President of a bank.  I am not saying that means people have to drink gallons of Pepsi while they watch Honey Boo Boo, to cope with low paying energy sucking jobs.  I am saying that having the time to volunteer, or the money or childcare to do aerobics is not a possibility for many of us.  Listening to a book on CD on the way to work while riding the bus, isn't an option.  I do read a lot, and am able to keep up that hobby because it's free.   It would be so nice to just order whatever book I wanted to read on my Kindle, and be done with it.  Instead, I have to travel to the library, drag my child with me because I have no childcare, and drag the books in and out and remember to renew them on time.   And we all know what a drain on resources this is.  A silly example, but it makes my point.  The time and effort I put into reading ie educating myself is far more than the well off person who can afford a Kindle and books to put on it. 

 

Money may not buy happiness, but it does quite often buy you more of a choice of where to put your time and energy.

[*Lulu*]

Okay --- help me change this:

 

My husband has Alzheimer's disease. He cannot work. I cannot leave him for long periods of time to work. I make ends meet by teaching at a co-op and tutoring while our youngest ds stays with his Dad.

 

Fifteen years ago, before he got ill, we had no debt -- not even a mortgage. We have been married over 26 years and have never had a car payment. Our family has taken ONE week-long vacation. (Not one per year -- one ever.) Our van has over 200,000 miles on it. We did not squander money, we worked hard. We are wiped out.

 

So, please, come wave your magic America wand and help me change my situation in life. I am ready.

((Hugs))

 

I get it. Over that past decade we have been within a year of being debt free (except house and student loans) 3 times. Every time life has given us a massive smack down. (Pay cut of 25%, medical complications with pregnancy/newborn, therapy/medical bills for 2 SN kids)

 

The one vacation we've taken only happened because the in-laws paid half.

 

Some things just happen and when you start to pick up the pieces you realize the landscape of your life has completely changed. Pay cuts can be bounced back from, facing a lifetime of seemingly overwhelming medical bills.......

 

Not feeling the bounce.

[Liz CA]

1. 70% of wealthy eat less than 300 junk food calories per day. 97% of poor people eat more than 300 junk food calories per day. (They're called urban food deserts, Dave, you can google that)  23% of wealthy gamble. 52% of poor people gamble. (Lottery has indeed been called a tax on the poor, but unless it's habitual, not unlike the high roller blowing his weekly coke money in Vegas, it's not a valid comparison.  Hedge funds gamble).

 

2. 80% of wealthy are focused on accomplishing some single goal. Only 12% of the poor do this.  (The poor have a single goal to make to the end of their shift(s) and hope their childcare holds out.)

 

3. 76% of wealthy exercise aerobically 4 days a week. 23% of poor do this. (It's called Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, Dave, and you aren't going to hit the gym until after your physiological and safety needs are met, at least.  psych 101).

 

4. 63% of wealthy listen to audio books during commute to work vs. 5% for poor people.  (Hard to do on the bus Dave, or if your shift(s) get you home after the library closes, or you're not close to a library, or....)

 

 

Ya know, DD and I are in the part of her logic book that talks about what to look for when someone is trying to sell you something.  This guys ticks several of the boxes.   Wanna get our of debt?  Sell books to people telling them how to get out of debt.

 

I "do" (to one extent or another) all of those 4 points, even the audiobooks on my long commute - but I am not wealthy. It is rather a personal preference, healthy habit I wanted to cultivate or a personality trait. Evidently something is wrong with the stats because I am not wealthy...at least not in a wordly sense.

 

[Joanne]

Okay --- help me change this:

 

My husband has Alzheimer's disease. He cannot work. I cannot leave him for long periods of time to work. I make ends meet by teaching at a co-op and tutoring while our youngest ds stays with his Dad. 

 

Fifteen years ago, before he got ill, we had no debt -- not even a mortgage. We have been married over 26 years and have never had a car payment. Our family has taken ONE week-long vacation. (Not one per year -- one ever.)  Our van has over 200,000 miles on it. We did not squander money, we worked hard. We are wiped out. 

 

So, please, come wave your magic America wand and help me change my situation in life. I am ready.

 

Exactly. My glasses (trifocals, purchased when I had health insurance) were crushed in the accident. I need new ones, and I do not have health insurance.

 

My dd needs new glasses.

 

She'll get hers. I can barely afford *one* appointment and set of glasses, let alone my trifocals. So, I'll wear glasses that are scratched and 5 years old.

THESE are the very real choices you have to make when you are "poor".

 

DR can kiss my fat, white, hard working crippled butt.

[Liz CA]

Okay --- help me change this:

 

My husband has Alzheimer's disease. He cannot work. I cannot leave him for long periods of time to work. I make ends meet by teaching at a co-op and tutoring while our youngest ds stays with his Dad. 

 

Fifteen years ago, before he got ill, we had no debt -- not even a mortgage. We have been married over 26 years and have never had a car payment. Our family has taken ONE week-long vacation. (Not one per year -- one ever.)  Our van has over 200,000 miles on it. We did not squander money, we worked hard. We are wiped out. 

 

So, please, come wave your magic America wand and help me change my situation in life. I am ready.

 

How difficult this must be - and I don't even mean financially.

 

[MyThreeSons]

I looked back over the list. My habits line up with the wealthy people for the most part, except:

 

I don't listen to audio books on my commute. I choose instead to engage in conversation with whoever may be in the van with me. 

 

I don't do aerobic exercise 4x per week. This would be a good idea, if I could figure out how to squeeze it in and not leave dh out.

 

I didn't make my kids read or do volunteer work -- they did because that was part of our lifestyle.

 

And my worst offense --- I do say what's on my mind, in case you haven't guessed, LOL. 

[SKL]

The fact is that some not-rich people are inspired by lists like that.  Don't we all know some people like that?  If that is what inspires some people to improve their habits, what is the problem?

 

Why must every statement by a not-poor person about money be interpreted as a slam on everyone else?

 

You know what's funny?  In my personal (irrelevant, anecdotal, stupid, unfeeling) experience, 90% of poor people want more money BUT 90% of "rich" people could care less about adding more money to their personal bank account.  Advice on getting rich isn't for rich people.  People following Dave Ramsey aren't rich people.  Personally I've never had any interest in whatever he has to say, because I figured out my financial situation before I ever heard of him.

[Hikin' Mama]

I wonder why people are so resistant to the idea that maybe rich / financially successful people work hard too.

I would put dh and I in the financially successful category. I'd say we have enough, but not too much. And we do work hard. And I don't think success comes without hard work. However, I don't agree with the message that that list of statistics is trying to send. I also know people who work just as hard, if not harder, but don't have the same level of financial "success."

[KRG]

I've never been a fan of Dave Ramsey.  This blog entry did not win him any points.  

[Forget-Me-Not]

Never mind.  I'll keep my bad mood to myself.

[Joanne]

The fact is that some not-rich people are inspired by lists like that.  Don't we all know some people like that?  If that is what inspires some people to improve their habits, what is the problem?

 

Why must every statement by a not-poor person about money be interpreted as a slam on everyone else?

 

You know what's funny?  In my personal (irrelevant, anecdotal, stupid, unfeeling) experience, 90% of poor people want more money BUT 90% of "rich" people could care less about adding more money to their personal bank account.  Advice on getting rich isn't for rich people.  People following Dave Ramsey aren't rich people.  Personally I've never had any interest in whatever he has to say, because I figured out my financial situation before I ever heard of him.

 

Of course. When *survival*: utilities, medical care, school supplies, winter coats, etc are constantly a challenge THAT IS ALL YOU CAN THINK ABOUT.

 

I "figured out" my financial situation, too. And then bad luck happened, and happened again, and happened again. And "hard work and education" has not been the panacea promised by advocates of hard work and those who makes assumptions like people on food stamps don't have jobs.

[LucyStoner]

I just started a book by a guy who was a wildly successful TV writer and ultimately ended up homeless. It's called "Tell me something, she said".

 

Here's a short bit about the guy's story:

 

http://priceonomics.com/what-its-like-to-fail/

[MyThreeSons]

I was amazed this past November 1st when I made the mistake of going to Walmart...   I asked my friend who works there and she says the first is chaos there because everyone gets paid, so they go out and buy groceries.  But what amazed me is that all the lines were open and 4 or 5 people deep with their carts piled high.... But what they were buying!!!!!  10 or 15 two liter soft drinks, pies and cakes from the bakery, tv dinners....   I guess I could have understood if they were filling their carts decent food, but even me the not food purist couldn't conceive of what they were buying.   Some kind of financial eduation is needed.  I've known people that bought smart phones for their children ( my children don't have one... a dumb phone is just fine if they have to have one) a brand new huge tv and then were completely devastated when their car broke down.  They hadn't budgeted and these people that I know just seemed to be of the mind that if they had the money they had to spend it or it would be gone, so they bought fun things...

 

We had a dream before dh got ill. It involved converting our "barn" -- actually a detached garage -- into an apartment. We would use it to house a down-and-out family or single Mom. Our church body would then use their combined gifts and skills to mentor the family. 

 

For majorly reduced rent, but not free, because that would defeat the purpose, we hoped to provide the following mentoring: 

 

• Budgeting, saving and investing
• Nutrition and cooking
• Basic sewing skills -- mending and such
• Basic car maintenance
• Wise shopping methods
• Basic home maintenance
• Healthy lifestyle choices
• others, I don't recall all of them right now

I'm still a firm believer in coming alongside someone and helping them learn to dig themselves out, rather than simply giving a handout. But at the same time, I don't believe in throwing dirt on the people in the pit. 

[SKL]

And "hard work and education" has not been the panacea promised by advocates of hard work ....

 

Well I hope we all agree that hard work is better than the opposite.

 

Pointing out the exceptions and extremes don't disprove the overall realities.  I mean, yeah, we could go down his list and say "but look, 3% of poor people eat well and they are still poor!  30% of rich people eat a ton of junk and they are still rich!  Screw all that nutrition BS!"

 

You know your series of unfortunate events is not typical.  They don't change the fact that in general, everyday people making everyday choices can impact their long-term success.  In fact, based on what I've read here, your educational choices did improve your life.  The fact that you had a car accident doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea for others to make some of the positive choices you made.