cops should leave good teens (like my dd and her boyfriend) alone

[Jeannie in NJ]

at 5 tonite my dd and her boyfriend were driving back to the shore from 1 1/4 hour away  where she has her  therapy.  The boyfriend was following dd to make sure she was okay driving.  A cop pulled bf over, dd pulled over to.  Cop said bf was driving "nervous" that is why he pulled him over.  My dd got out of the car (we have since told her never to do that unless told to by the cop), the cop yelled at her to get back in her car. She started crying and cop started yelling at her "Why are you crying, what are you afraid of?"  THe cop then called for 4 backup police cars and they proceeded to pretty much strip the boyfriend's car, said they were looking for drugs.  Of course they found NOTHING.  Dd said they did not apologize or help bf put his stuff back in his car or trunk.  Dd called dh while driving (on her bluetooth so hands free and was crying the rest of the way home which was another hour.  My nephew is a cop, wait till we tell him.

[Catwoman]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

 

How frightening!!! Can they file a complaint against the officers?

 

I hope your nephew has some advice for you about what you can do about this.

[Jean in Newcastle]

That is scary.  I agree about filing a complaint.  In my state a vehicle cannot be pulled over without probable cause and certainly there cannot be a search of the car without it.  I would want to know what the laws are for your state and if they were violated.  

[RoughCollie]

If the boyfriend didn't assent to the search, then what the police did was in violation of the 4th Amendment.  Another reason to file a complaint against those cops.  If he did assent, which many people do, then they did not violate his constitutional rights.  There are exceptions to these rights, such as drugs being in plain view in the car, but that doesn't sound like the case here.

[Jeannie in NJ]

this happened right outside of the town where the boyfriend's parents live and I think that his mom is already looking into the cops actions.

[Starr]

Oh I'm sorry. That sounds absolutely miserable. Poor kids.

[fraidycat]

There must be something in the NJ air today with cops and teens.

[SKL]

Of course the cops have no way of knowing who is a "good teen" or not, but yeah, stripping the car without any evidence of wrongdoing is awful.  And the yelling - that makes me mad.  It happened to me once.  I was a 45-year-old mom driving my preschoolers to the zoo of all places.  Allegedly I was going a little fast.  A motorcycle cop put on his lights, but there wasn't any safe place to pull over (in my judgment) until I got to the zoo parking lot.  This made the cop angry, so he yelled into my car for an extended time period, while my kids stared in stunned silence.  Real smooth.  Try convincing my kids that cops are their friends....

[justasque]

I found this video, about how to deal with police in this kind of situation, very worthwhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4nQ_mFJV4I

[lynn]

  I am sorry they had to go through this.  Hopefully a formal complaint will be filed.  

[poppy]

I don't know about the search, but the rest of it seems reasonable. 

 

I would expect cops to call backup if they felt threatened -- erratic driving, driver getting out of the car,  driving appearing to be panicked are all red flags.

I would not expect cops to apologize for doing a search.

 

My cynical thought was "OP is white", to not think of teaching kids how to behave when pulled over. It made me think of that video where Levar Burton talks about how he taught his kids to dangle their hands outside the window when pulled over in order to make absolutely clear to the police that there was no threat.    

[Harriet Vane]

Totally inappropriate. File a complaint.

[unsinkable]

Although what does "nervous driving" look like? Except for very erratic swerving, I think this is a very vague reason to pull someone over.

Driving too slow, riding the brake.

[unsinkable]

Totally inappropriate. File a complaint.

What's inappropriate?

 

Traffic stops are full of uncertainty for the police. They have no way of knowing who is in a car or what will happen when they pull someone over.

[Cinder]

:grouphug:

[gingersmom]

Unfortunately my traffic run ins with the police have been less than pleasant.

 

1. I forgot EZ Pass was not on car windshield crossing bridge into NYC. Kids in car and cop screaming at the top of his lungs at me. My daughter is hysterically crying, but he kept yelling. You would have thought I robbed a bank.

 

2. My registration was expired by 1 day. I had no idea, cop pulled me over. We had just left my daughters music recital, me kids and my mom. I roll down window truly wondering why pulled over. Cop yelling so loud I had no idea what he was saying. I turned to my mother to ask what he said. I handed him my license because I was so confused and he was obviously having a bad day. He goes to cop car, comes back and gives me license and drives off. Nothing else said. So weird.

 

3. I was learning to drove stick shift and got ticket for disturbing the peace. I was 16/17 and surrounded by 10 cop cars. I went to court and it was dismissed.

 

I am not surprised by anything anymore.

[Jeannie in NJ]

the boyfriend is white, my dd is not.   In the course of teaching dd to drive, we had told her if police pulled her over to never reach into the glove compartment for her registration and insurance papers.  To wait till told to and to tell the cop exactly what she is doing at all times.  We never thought she would ever get out of the car.  So last night we told her that to a cop a person jumping out of their car could spell trouble and things could end tragic if cop felt threatened enough.  That even tho dd is a very petite cute young lady, even petite, cute young ladies have been known to shoot police and that a cop never knows what a person jumping out of a car will do.

[City Mouse]

I have to agree that the initial stop does not bother me. What if they saw a teenage girl driving alone and a male in the car behind her following closely? How do they know he was supposed to be there and was not a stalker of something?

 

The search sounds questionable, but I am guessing that the boy gave verbal concent even if he was badgered into giving concent.

As far as the yelling goes, I would need more information to form an opinion. Did the officer use a loud, forcefully voice, or was he yelling expletives at her? My DD thinks anyone who is correcting her is "yelling" when I would not say that it was yelling.

 

I don't understand a 17 yr old crying at being told to get back in the car, even if the officer did yell.

 

Overall, this traffic stop does not sound all that bad to me.

[AimeeM]

Whatever the situation, these poor kids learned a hard lesson about who and what policemen are.  Bullies.  You have to wonder about the psychological makeup of a human who wants to do that for a living.  Protect and serve my foot.

 

All cops aren't bullies? Our experience with them has been pleasant and/or at least tolerable - even when I'm being pulled over for something.

 

She shouldn't have got out of the car. It's pull over safety 101.

[SKL]

Cops do get a bad name thanks to the ones who are bullies.  I get that it's a stressful job, but you don't take it out on random people who haven't done anything to you.  Most cops have been very nice to me, but guess which encounters I tend to remember best . . . .

[Danestress]

Doesn't sound like there was probable cause to search the car, though often it turns out a driver consented without really realizing he didn't have to.

 

My kids have has it drummed into them to never ever consent to a search, to never make statements, etc. They also understand that officer safety is and should be a priority, so trying to get out of a car is am absolute no no. Of course the officer might yell in that situation - it is a critical moment for him.

[SKL]

Yelling for her to get back in the car (assuming he was standing some distance away) doesn't bother me.  But following it up with "why are you crying" etc. made it obnoxious IMO.  Cop needs to protect himself, yes.  Tears are not dangerous to a cop.

[Moxie]

Whatever the situation, these poor kids learned a hard lesson about who and what policemen are. Bullies. You have to wonder about the psychological makeup of a human who wants to do that for a living. Protect and serve my foot.

Seriously??? I disagree. I know and am related to some excellent law enforcement officers. Your statement is just rude.

[Murphy101]

Yelling for her to get back in the car (assuming he was standing some distance away) doesn't bother me. But following it up with "why are you crying" etc. made it obnoxious IMO. Cop needs to protect himself, yes. Tears are not dangerous to a cop.

No it's not obnoxious.

 

Why are you crying?!

 

Unsaid is the possibility that:

This man in the car behind you has been stalking you.

You are off meds and ready to freak.

You are trying to distract the cop from what this guy is doing or has in his car.

Or maybe this cop got a call to be on the lookout for a rapist targeting young women drivers.

Or ...

 

She had no reason to cry so it heightened the cops risk gauge for this routine stop.

 

Cops are trained to treat every pull over as potentially life threatening.

 

We are white. We have taught all our drivers to never do anything other than roll the window half way down and put hands on steering wheel. Give license and registration. Accept ticket if necessary. Otherwise don't speak and don't give permission for anything and if the cop deviates from that general license/registration/ticket situation, then the only words necessary are "I'd like to call a lawyer please."

 

Someone posted a great vid lecture about why one shouldn't speak to cops a while back. Excellent and I made my teens watch it and we discussed it at length.

[unsinkable]

I drive slowly. Never been pulled over for nervous driving. I was pulled over once about 1000 years ago because I ran a stop sign (didn't see the stop sign, was in an odd place).

I didn't say slowly. I said too slow. Driving too slow for the conditions ( whatever they may be) is a red flag.

 

Drunk drivers sometimes drive too slowly. Texting drivers sometimes drive too slowly. Distracted drivers sometimes drive too slowly.

[Alicia64]

Horrendous. Definitely file a complaint.

 

But better than what happened to this guy:

 

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. –  A southern New Mexico man who was pulled over for not making a complete traffic stop was taken to two hospitals and forced to have anal probes, three enemas, two body X-rays and a colonoscopy because police thought he was hiding drugs, according a federal lawsuit.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/06/lawsuit-says-unreasonable-anal-searches-forced-on-nm-man-after-traffic-stop/

 

Can't imagine what the hospital staff was doing/thinking. They'd taken the guy to one hospital who told the cops, "Um, no, we're not doing that." So the cops took the guy to the hospital across town.

 

They never found any drugs.

 

As my radio guys say, "Goodbye Sweet America."

 

Alley

[Miss Peregrine]

Whatever the situation, these poor kids learned a hard lesson about who and what policemen are. Bullies. You have to wonder about the psychological makeup of a human who wants to do that for a living. Protect and serve my foot.

Yep. Who in their right mind would want to deal with those with the psychological makeup of criminals?

 

On my phone so just know this is written in sarcastic font.

[Harriet Vane]

What's inappropriate?

 

Traffic stops are full of uncertainty for the police. They have no way of knowing who is in a car or what will happen when they pull someone over.

 

Unless someone was speeding, driving erratically, or indicating some other, illegal activity, NO, the cops do not have the right to pull someone over. There has to be a reason. They do not have carte blanche.

 

There was no probable cause for a search, either.

 

Dd did do wrong in getting out of the car, but the cop certainly could have been more professional in responding to her. A warning and directions for what behavior is expected is warranted, not jeering and bullying.

 

FWIW, a very dear friend of mine is a police officer. He's not a control freak, and he really does want to serve and protect. He's big and strong, skilled and fast, calm and patient--just the sort of man for the job. If all police officers were like my friend, the world would be a better place.

 

 

[Mergath]

Whatever the situation, these poor kids learned a hard lesson about who and what policemen are.  Bullies.  You have to wonder about the psychological makeup of a human who wants to do that for a living.  Protect and serve my foot.

 

:huh:   I think that's a terrible thing to say, and certainly not something my dd will be taught.  And also a flat out lie.  One of my best friends in college was a cop, and he was a wonderful, kind person who liked to knit in his spare time.  Every time I've been pulled over, the cops have been respectful and friendly.  Obviously, not every cop is a saint, and like in any profession, you have some bad apples.  But to act like anyone who would want to be a cop is somehow twisted and depraved, well, that's just bizarre.

[unsinkable]

Unless someone was speeding, driving erratically, or indicating some other, illegal activity, NO, the cops do not have the right to pull someone over. There has to be a reason. They do not have carte blanche.

 

There was no probable cause for a search, either.

 

Dd did do wrong in getting out of the car, but the cop certainly could have been more professional in responding to her. A warning and directions for what behavior is expected is warranted, not jeering and bullying.

 

FWIW, a very dear friend of mine is a police officer. He's not a control freak, and he really does want to serve and protect. He's big and strong, skilled and fast, calm and patient--just the sort of man for the job. If all police officers were like my friend, the world would be a better place.

 

 

Jeannie said the police told the boy he was driving nervous, which we don't know what he exactly meant by that. He was following Jeannie's DD, which takes some skill and perhaps led him to do some unusual things.

 

It sounds like a harrowing situation for the kids. I feel horrible that they went through it.

 

But the police didnt know they were good kids.

[Mergath]

Yep. Who in their right mind would want to deal with those with the psychological makeup of criminals?

 

Nvm, missed the sarcasm. ;)

[unsinkable]

Yep. Who in their right mind would want to deal with those with the psychological makeup of criminals?

(((Hugs)))

 

Thank your DH for me.

[Miss Peregrine]

Seriously? So judging by that logic, I suppose all the soldiers who fight overseas are bullies with something psychologically wrong with them?

I should have put an emoticon. I am married to a cop and I was being sarcastic. Her post is ridiculous.

[Mergath]

I should have put an emoticon. I am married to a cop and I was being sarcastic. Her post is ridiculous.

 

Aaahhhh.  I thought it said you had liked her post, and then I saw yours, so I assumed it was serious.  Sorry.  Still working on my coffee. ;)

[unsinkable]

Seriously? So judging by that logic, I suppose all the soldiers who fight overseas are bullies with something psychologically wrong with them?

I think Miss P is being sarcastic.

[Miss Peregrine]

Aaahhhh. I thought it said you had liked her post, and then I saw yours, so I assumed it was serious. Sorry. Still working on my coffee. ;)

On my phone and when I discovered that I accidentally liked her post I was horrified. I don't.

[SKL]

Oh, that is a good point that the cop might have wondered if the girl was in some way frightened of the boy following her.

 

Though it would be weird for her to stop after he got stopped, if she was afraid of him.  Still, people do irrational things out of fear, and cops certainly see plenty of that.

 

I guess I'd have to hear the tone and all that before I judge...

[unsinkable]

Oh, that is a good point that the cop might have wondered if the girl was in some way frightened of the boy following her.

 

Though it would be weird for her to stop after he got stopped, if she was afraid of him. Still, people do irrational things out of fear, and cops certainly see plenty of that.

 

I guess I'd have to hear the tone and all that before I judge...

Not at all weird if it was a domestic violence situation...many times the victim tries to protect the victimizer from LE.

[SKL]

Good reminder to teach our kids how to handle police stops.  Sooner or later we'll probably all have [at least] one.

[KungFuPanda]

Sometimes people DO drive 'weirdly' when they are following someone. Her driving pace is not his, and he couldnt just go around and be on his way. To the cop's eye, the pacing, distance from the other car, and braking patterns could have looked unusual. An agitated girl getting out of the car that wasn't pulled over makes it look weirder. It sounds like they checked it out, found everything OK, and sent them on their way.

[Mergath]

Sometimes people DO drive 'weirdly' when they are following someone. Her driving pace is not his, and he couldnt just go around and be on his way. To the cop's eye, the pacing, distance from the other car, and braking patterns could have looked unusual. An agitated girl getting out of the car that wasn't pulled over makes it look weirder. It sounds like they checked it out, found everything OK, and sent them on their way.

 

And some people drive weirdly with a cop behind them.  I swear, every time there's a cop behind me, I completely forget how to drive because I'm trying so hard to NOT drive like an idiot. :P    

[Danestress]

It sounds like they checked it out, found everything OK, and sent them on their way.

It sounds to me like he called a bunch of backup police vehicles, searched a car with no probable cause, and THEN sent them on their way.

 

I am betting, though, that the kid consented to the search because he didn't know to politely refuse to allow it. Teach your kids they can say, very respectfully, that they will not consent to a search.

[unsinkable]

It sounds to me like he called a bunch of backup police vehicles, searched a car with no probable cause, and THEN sent them on their way.

 

I am betting, though, that the kid consented to the search because he didn't know to politely refuse to allow it. Teach your kids they can say, very respectfully, that they will not consent to a search.

The first officer HAD to call for backup once Jeannie's DD pulled over and got out of the car.

[gingersmom]

And I would bet If you don't consent to search you will b in back or police car in cuffs on a trumped up charge that will later b dismissed.

[Mergath]

And I would bet If you don't consent to search you will b in back or police car in cuffs on a trumped up charge that will later b dismissed.

 

I think you've been watching too much tv.

[Murphy101]

Refusing to consent is not illegal.

Trumped up charges ARE illegal.

If it is dismissed, then the checks and balances worked and the defendant may have cause to file complaint/suit against the officer/department.

 

People who see wrong must have the courage to act and to speak up. Citizens must not tolerate injustice. This is not always going to be an easy or quick thing to do. It is the price of constant vigilance to protect freedoms.

[Danestress]

And I would bet If you don't consent to search you will b in back or police car in cuffs on a trumped up charge that will later b dismissed.

So you would consent out of fear?

 

Most traffic stops are being filmed. And most cops (not all, of course) actually try to do their jobs legally and correctly. It's absolutely legal and fine for them to ask to search a car. If there is no probably cause to search without consent, then they can ask but can't search without it. Of course, it is easy for them later to say, "Gee, I thought I smelled pot," which would, if true, create cause. But I would never just roll over and consent.

[Danestress]

The first officer HAD to call for backup once Jeannie's DD pulled over and got out of the car.

I not sure there needed to be a total of five police cars. But it's also fine if that is what they want.

[TheAutumnOak]

So you would consent out of fear?

 

 

 

This may not be the right answer for many people here on the boards, but yes, I would consent out of fear...

 

I grew up in the projects (ghetto) of NJ...My view of who the police are and what they can do to you is very influenced by that fact...Though it would be nice to feel as though I have the right to do certain things, experience has taught me that it is better to get out of the situation as quickly and painlessly as possible than to argue with the police...I have seen people beat for refusing to comply with police requests, whether they are innocent or guilty...The reality of filing complaints and standing up for your rights is different for most people who grew up in the ghetto...It doesn't always work out the way you think it will...

 

Not all police are people to be feared...If something were to happen to me, they would be the first ones I call...But I still feel a bit of fear whenever I see a police officer...Like I said, I expect many to disagree, but experience does effect how you see things...

[T'smom]

Whatever the situation, these poor kids learned a hard lesson about who and what policemen are. Bullies. You have to wonder about the psychological makeup of a human who wants to do that for a living. Protect and serve my foot.

This is a terrible thing to say. I know police officers who are wonderful people. And it's a darn good thing that some people do want to do that job. Where would we be without them?

 

There are some people in all professions who are jerks.